What does /v/ think of SOMA?
Cool game, not particularly scary though
>>316620373
loved it. It's scary at times, but go into it expecting more of a psychological experience than a spookfest.
Needed more gameplay.
>>316620373
I think this developer needs to get away from adding creatures to "hide" from gameplay and actually innovate.
>>316622342
How exactly do you innovate in this genre? At least Soma isn't a 24/7 jumpscare spookfest like Most other games.
>>316622543
How the fuck should I know? I'm not the one making games, I'm the one playing them, and I say they keep doing the same thing every time even when it doesn't fit or improve the game. This "hide from angry shit" "gameplay" does not improve this game, which otherwise had an interesting story. It detracts from it. It mars it. They've done that for 3 games in a row now, and while it was interesting enough in Amnesia #1, it's just holding them back now.
Come up with something that improves the genre, don't just keep shitting it out.
>>316620373
Better than system shock
>>316622342
Yeah, it stops being scary when I know how the monsters work and understand the Amnesia formula.
Still enjoyed the game because of it's story and environments, though.
>>316620373
my only gripe is simon is retarded
>>316620373
Mediocre.
I really hope Routing doesn't turn li-
oh who the fuck am I kidding, Routine will be released the same day Scam CItizien is.
>see first monster
>laugh
>uninstall
Thank you chinese room for giving them the idea that story matters the most
cunts
>>316620373
Would have preferred if they just went full on walking simulator.
The monsters werent scary and were more a hassle than anything
>>316624078
Oh right, that existed at some point in publics consciousness.
Where are they getting their funds to keep quiet and let the hype go to waste and die.
What I don't like about these types of games is that it forces you to be unarmed. I like games like Silent Hill and Alien Isolation, where you actually do have a fighting chance, and the fact that the enemies can still easily kill you makes them even more scary.
When I got killed by guys in Outlast, I wasn't spooked, I thought to myself "why the fuck couldn't I defend myself?"
I like games where you at least have a chance.
>>316624039
>refuses to understand how the copy thing works
What a moron
>>316624228
That too, if only it had more puzzles
>>316624346
What's even worse is when the game tries to spook you psychologically but there's never an actual threat.
>>316624039
How the fuck did Simon not understand what was going to happen at the end? It was fucking obvious.
I mean, I got shocked when it happened the first time in Omicron too, but the second? Seriously?
Did he just expect the rules to change? God damn it Simon.Kind of spooky that the Simon in the Ark has no fucking clue and thinks he's still the third iteration, though
>>316626263
They should've made you bash Omicron Simon's head in while he was restrained in the chair to kill him.
That would've made the dumb outburst at the end believable.
That wasn't so bad. Strongheim really got me worked up. Bastard.
>>316626891
>MFW I kept doing the simulations over and over again because Catherine had like a dozen different lines
In some of them she was outright the funniest worst liar ever
"Mr Wang... I MEAN! Bran!"
My favorite of the monsters by far is the one in the ship that would teleport around and notice you if you looked at him. That motherfucker was cool. I also liked the giant Eel.
>>316620373
One of the better walking sims. At least it's longer than 10 minutes like the rest
M E M E G A M E
E
M
E
G
A
M
E
>>316629245
That's Undertale. Not this.
>>316626263
Cause the nigga is some gamestop employee or something not a scientist.
>>316620373
I couldn't finish the game I got to the part where the gym instructor robot thinks hes human and kept shocking him for like 40 minutes cause it was funny and never moved on.
It was a good game, if not a bit too short. Pretty depressing story though.
>Humanity gets destroyed by a meteor
>Only survivors left and the only hope for humanity build a fucking AI that wipe out the rest of them
>MC is already dead and only a copy of the original's memories
>Not only that but he copies himself twice and thinks he will be with his waifu in the Ark by the end
>Turns out his copies will die alone and disappear forever after all their struggle
Want to try it but in the trailers it annoyed me that your MC talked.
Sure Mandus did in AMfP but at least he wasnt obnoxious and he didnt talk in the scary momments.
>>316630683
>goes back and makes more copies
>have an army of robo Simon's
>never lonely ever again
since you're a robot you don't need to fuck or masturbate anymore so it's a happy ending i guess
>>316630130
But everyone who played the game understood it the first time
At first I thought Simon was actually a pretty smart character. He figured and accepted that he was a robot pretty quick. Figured out what was going on around him about as quick as the game fed the info to you. And then he went full retard at the end.
>>316631124
It's easier to process a situation from the comfort of your home rather than suddenly being thrown 100 years in the future in a robot body with humanity wiped out and slightly spooky ghosts fucking up your vision every 20 feet at the bottom of and ocean with an annoying battery telling you what to do. That's at least gamestop manager tier for coping mechanics.
>>316631461
He was probably just desperate. It's not like he had many options of survival and he just wanted to BELIEVE it would save him.
>>316629204
>>316629245
>SOMA
>A meme game/walking sim
These terms have officially gone too far now
>>316630963
I like that he talks, makes him much more relatable.
He only talks in the downtime anyways. When it's actual scary shit time, he's silent
>>316633415
So far doesnt seems he has anything interesting to say, i was far more invested in Daniel because you get to know the real Daniel while you control the self blankstaed Daniel.
>>316631108
I think it was a real huge mistake to not have one of the enemies be another identity of yourself. Like, seriously, instead of Catherine conveniently having Simon go to sleep after he transfers, have the previous Simon freak the fuck out and realize he's expendable and not going to Abyss with the other Simon and Catherine. And have him turn into an enemy that chases you around.
That would be a much superior adversary than the WAU shit, I think. Which barely felt connected to the plot at all.
>>316631529
I guess you're right but still, he literally just saw it happening at Omicron like a few hours ago. And that experience marked him and he got angry at Catherine. It was literally the same scenario happening again.
Why didn't Simon just make more Simons and Catherines and have a dozen robots roaming around rebuilding actual mankind on Earth?
>>316620373
Walking sim
>>316626263
It didnt matter which simon was which. One of them was going to freak out because they werent in paradise for the next few thousand years
>>316620373
Pretty decent. Hads lots of potential to be more than what it was. The voice acting, particularly MC ruined a lot of it for me. The way he talks and emotions he conveys are just so off. He just talks so fucking casually. And the ending when he starts freaking out made no fucking sense. He should have known what was going to happen once they did the firstmind transfer/copy.
Some of the enemies were much better than Amnesia and some of them were just lame. I appreciate that they went through to trouble of making different enemy encounters every time but still. A walking sack? Come on. The effects and sound when they approach though was a definite improvement over amnesia though.
Honestly though it just doesn't live up to it's potential. And the ideas behind the game certainly have a shit ton of potential.
Game of the year.
>>316620373
It was alright. There was something about simon all of his moral conundrums out loud that made me want to beat my head on my desk though.
>>316622876
Three? Do you not know Penumbra exists?
>>316636976
And put them in what? They needed bodies--human or robot--to actually put the scan into. It isn't like Simon was created out of thin air. Those two bodies were more or less just dead bodies with parts strapped to them.
Not to mention the fact that it seems like an even more bastardized version of the human race since we're literally talking about creating an army of walking corpses and dilapidated robots with the memories of two people loaded into them, wandering the Earth for the rest of time.
>>316637952
Also, was I the only one that liked how the game gaveyou choices that never actually matter. I know we're all used to choices that make an impact but it kinda plays off your expectations. I found myself saving every life/robot with sentience I could at first but by a certain point I realized that they were just suffering and would live the rest of their lives in this terrifying hell created by WAU, scared out of their mind or just suffering till the end of their days. Letting yourself first copy live or die really ended up driving that point home for me. Even when the first copy woke up, he'd just be stuck there, forever, alone, fearing for his life till the WAU overtook him/killed him. I couldn't let him suffer like that with no hope. And really it shouldn't matter if it makes an impact on the rest of the game. That change of mind and emotion it managed to make me feel were more than enough.
>>316638804
I killed pretty much everyone I saw because I immediately realized this was a setting that had no happy endings for them. The only person that survived was that happy little chipper helper that helped me out a bunch of times.
I was considering not killing the human woman but then she begged for it so fuck it, I killed her too.
The ending made me regret it though, maybe Simon would have enjoyed the company.
Simon could use the ovums of that living chick and get some sperm of one of those plugged bodies, mix them and with the technology of that time could create a baby to keep on with the human race
it's alright.
penumbra > soma > amnesia
>>316638547
Put them into other robots, there's nothing short of parts going around.
They could form some sort of society and go up into the ocean and look through the wastelands of Earth, maybe find some remnants of humanity and help them out.
>>316636976
Isn't that what the WOW was doing?
>>316638280
I havent advanced enough but in Penumbra Overture i have been killing wolfs with a hammer.
>>316638804
What were some of the choices that affected things from a game perspective? Were some scenes different? Did it affect your ending?
Full disclosure I just watched a stream as I thought the world and story looked interesting but didn't think I'd get anything more from buying it as opposed to watching it. I like to think I was right as I enjoyed the world and story for what tehy were and the streamer I watched stayed quiet and was thorough without being agonisingly slow or dense
>>316640739
Yeah but the WAU fucking sucked at it and was causing misery to hundreds of people that just wanted it to end.
>game starts
>Simon's GF looks like Zoey Literally Who
>triggered as fuck
>>316639734
Overall it's SOMA > Amnesia > Penumbra
Scaryness wise, I'd say it's Amnesia > Penumbra > SOMA
>>316641719
I think there are a couple areas where you can even actually make a choice. One being where you have to smash a robot for its parts, and the other when you choose to kill the WAU or not. No choice you make affects the ending or even really the events immediately following your choice.
>>316620373
WAU did nothing wrong
>>316620373
Even these guys diluted their games, Penumbra had so much potential.
>>316624346
And that's what makes Thief scarier.
Penumbra did that too, I still remember piling jumping on a box and fending off those dogs with a pickaxe.
We really need a return to survival horror.
pretty good game
ending was poorly written, broke immersion when he got sad about copying again
>no several archs
>>316620373
Story is alright. Cathrine a shit. Gameplay a ton of shit. Horror non-existent.
>>316626263
>How the fuck did Simon not understand what was going to happen at the end? It was fucking obvious.Catherine was telling a white lie so Simon would go along with her plans. It's the same reason why the crew kept killing themselves after the initial brain scan, she had explained that the coin flip theory would give them a 50/50 chance to transfer themselves onto ARK. What she was REALLY doing was creating new individual personalities. This is supported by one of the other scientists in an audio recording, one of the mentioning that it was impossible for them to truly capture the complexity of human nature in an engram. Playing as Simon A, B and C was for gameplay sake, not anything to do with the plot.
>>316646124
Catherine only told a white lie up until Omicron, though. After Omicron, when you saw how "transferring minds" worked, you should have realized that you can't actually transfer the minds via computers, you can only copy them. Simon was an idiot at that point by not realizing what was gonna happen in the Ark.
Everyone at the base already knew that, and they all knew that what was going on in the ARK was irrelevant to them. They weren't gonna be transported to the ark, they knew that, it was just a silly experiment Catherine was doing and it sounded nice to them to have some version of themselves up in the stars after they were dead.
The one exception were these few morons, headed by Sarang, who believed in the retarded idea of "continuity", he says that because some of our cells die, that OBVIOUSLY means that if you were to kill yourself as soon as you get scanned, you'd be the exact same "soul" inside the ark. Of course, this is a really stupid idea that has no ground to base itself on, and it was basically just a desperate hope and gamble.
>>316644325
It did a lot wrong, but it was kind of sorting itself out. Keeping humans alive through pain and misery was fucked up but it was just their first attempt. Then there were reviving humans and doing it poorly, which resulted in the monstrosities you fought.
But they're also responsible for Simon #2 and Catherine #2. If uninterrupted, the WAU could have theoretically restored some sort of A.I. humanity on Earth.
>>316646642
Simon B(or C?) was a continuation of successful copies though. From his perspective everything was going to continue on the Ark just as it had done up until that point.
>The one exception were these few morons, headed by Sarang
Wait, did that include the robot outside of Omnicron?
>>316646642
Exactly. People have been wrestling with this shit since the very idea of cloning yourself ever came up.
Your clone isn't going to have your conscience, or soul, or whatever the fuck. It's a copy of you.
You know how on a computer, you can cut a file or copy it? Cutting the file removes it from where it was and moves it elsewhere. Copying it leaves the original file intact and just makes another one somewhere else.
Simon's fucking dense for not realizing this and Catherine is a cunt for not telling him in simple terms what was going to happen. She literally could have said "let me be straight with you, you're gonna fucking die down here but you can still clone yourself and help humanity after you're gone".
It's a way more positive and logical message, but this is a horror game so everybody has to act like a fucking retard so we get a "shocking" downer ending.
>Soma.
Story-based non-game.
Belongs in /tv/.
>>316647427
Even if Catherine didn't exactly explain it to him in good terms (I don't think that's exactly her lying, she's just very anti-social in general) Simon should have gathered it at that point
>>316647378
It's Simon C at that point, and Simon C should have realized it because he saw Simon B in the chair talking with Catherine. He even commented on it and realized what was going on with the copying. Not to mention the sounds of the real Simon (Simon A) dying in the hospital 100 years before. I'm just saying, Simon ain't very bright.
>Wait, did that include the robot outside of Omnicron?
Yeah, the robot outside "is" Robin, which was one of the few morons that fell for Sarang's thing of "Kill yourselves and you'll be the same soul"
>>316647706
>non-game
>le walking simulator meme
Fuck off with this shit. SOMA is very much a game. It has stealth, chase, puzzles and exploration based gameplay. At this point you fags might as well say Point N Clicks aren't games.
>>316647793
Nigga he was having an existential crisis while trapped in an oceanic trench, give him a break.
>>316644474
SOMA is way cooler than Penumbra. Look at those fucking incredible environments.
>>316624148
>"I haven't played the game!"
thanks for that important update, anon.
>>316648840
This
How come they never brought up the possibility of there being two Catherines on the ark? I find it hard to believe the original didn't put herself on it at some point considering they were ready to fire the thing off into space. Then the catherine you're with copies herself onto it too
>>316626263
He was just subconsciously hoping to win that cointoss too, I guess. And threw a fit when he didn't. I would think /v/ knows a thing or two about throwing a fit when they knew damn well something was going to go wrong.
>>316651654
I thought for sure that's what was gonna happen but nope, she's just a dead corpse at the end.
>>316652110
It's not really a cointoss, though. If you're Simon B, you're not gonna be Simon C. There's no cointoss there.
>>316654290
From Simon C's perspective, it is. He wakes up thinking he always was Simon. But yes, from anyone else's perspective there's no toss happening.
>>316654441
Yeah, but not Simon B, so there's no coin toss for him.
>>316656051
All it takes is for Simon B and C to think there's a toss happening. A new Simon is born and feels like he always was Simon, the other loses. In essence, it is a cointoss.
It's a crude comparison, but in essence it is correct.
>>316620373
It should be called COMA because i fell asleep playing it.
>>316656219
i dont see a toss in your example. the rules are pretty straightforward, there's no chance involved. the selection of which simon is the POV character is done by the developer.
>>316656801
this
think of it as a vessel going into two new bodies, with the same consciousness. There could very well have been a playable omichrom simon
>>316656801
You are examining the situation as a bystander. Which is reasonable. But we are talking about the situation from Simon's eyes.
> the selection of which simon is the POV character is done by the developer.
OK, now you're just being openly resistant of the story. Of course the developer decides how the story plays out. For that matter you might as well get hung up on "WHO CARES, IT'S A VIDEO GAME" but fuck that. That isn't any fun to discuss.
Simon "A" and "B" waking up with all the memories of the previous Simons is precisely how a copied brain would think, hypothetically speaking. So yes, B waking up as the player implies we never really were in the body of flesh Simon and Simon A. But C would see it that way too, and a hypothetical cointoss from his perspective would be happening. Literally, no. A new conciousness just woke up with the memories, but again. Perspective is important.
>>316656219
>>316656801
>>316657342
There is no coin toss, just Simon getting roped into helping Catherine
You are Simon C, you just play through the memories of Simon A and B. The view of the ARK after credits is Simon D's perspective
>>316641719
As I said before,none of your choices matter. They change absolutely nothing. But I kinda liked that because at a certain point I stopped thinking about it from a gameplay perspective and started really giving it some thought on a moral perspective. When I realized there was no hope for these people besides a life of utter fear and pain I stopped trying to save them and chose to end their suffering.
>>316644236
There are actually a few choices that people don't realize. For instance the girl in the shuttle area near the start of the game. You can choose to unplug one WAU cord instead of both and the shuttle won't be fully powered but just enough to run. In this instance she'll live as opposed to both cords. Another one being at the start of the game, there are two switches you can pull to shut down power to open the communications room. If you shut down power to the entire station the damaged robot will 'die'. Alternatively if you flip the switch right next to him he will get electrocuted and continuously cry out in pain. I think the rest are rather straight forward unless I'm forgetting one.
>>316656219
>All it takes is for Simon B and C to think there's a toss happening. A new Simon is born and feels like he always was Simon, the other loses. In essence, it is a cointoss.
It really isn't a coin toss at all, though. Simon B is incorrect if he thinks about it. He's copying his conscience which will move on and live somewhere else (in this case, the ARK), there is no chance that the person that is living in that moment will somehow be transported to Simon C
If he's living in the present of the time he's getting scanned, then he knows that the thing that is about to come out of the scan will be Simon C, which will not be him, Simon B. It's not a question of chance, it's in fact 100% proven that he will not be the person alive on the Ark.
>>316657342
see
>>316657139
cant you see that they're the same? (that's how copy conciousness works in this) the selection of which simon we control is purely a narrative decision.
>>316657796
You repeated the exact same thing I said, but refused the cointoss analogy outright. From Simon's perspective, there is a cointoss. Because there are now two Simons who wake up at the moment of the transfer feeling like they always were the one and only. From nobody else's is there one.
I don't know why people are getting so hung up on the use of the term.
>>316657991
>the selection of which simon we control is purely a narrative decision.
Why do you think this is a revelation to me?
The point is, narrative guiding aside, these new Simon's would behave exactly as they did. Remembering all the things that happened as if they were there.
>>316658042
>From Simon's perspective
Simon's also a huge dummy in the plot, there's no difference between having the memories of doing something, and ACTUALLY being the individual that did them, in the human brain. So the possibility of not-Simon existing doesn't compute to him until Omicron, at which point he accepts the "cointoss" shit Cath feeds him
I see the term "cointoss" a lot in these threads when it's about as real as Atlas being the good guy in Bioshock
>>316658261
simon is dumb and doesnt try to understand how it works at all, but is also lied to/tricked several times by kat
>>316658664
It's rather hard to blame Catherine seeing how Simon reacts, honestly.
>>316647427
How does the plan even help humanity? That killed me the whole game.
It seems really pointless. A handful of people in a simulated paradise, who aren't EVEN people. The game proved they're as vulnerable to corruption and data loss as any program, and they're floating in a universe where they will likely never be found by any intelligent life.
How long until they go crazy from the lack of new scenery? How long until the artificial nature of it starts to make them wig out? How long can the satellite exist in space?
>>316620373
Soma this dick.
WAU DID NOTHING WRONG.
>>316658797
It's completely reasonable given the survival of the human mind is at stake vs one stupid guy, but yes, it's deception
>>316658908
>all human minds on Pathos-II orbiting in space for thousands of years
or
>all human minds sitting in Pathos-II for maybe 10 years until the WAU corrupts it, death or disfigurement of all remaining human minds
The last human dies in front of you in the game, either you evolve or go extinct
>>316659160
How can you even call that evolution?
>>316637952
Why did you censor Mind Transfer/Copy? Are we on fucking reddit?
>>316659290
Simon in a diving suit/power suit is pretty human overall aside from his physical body. That's the kind of questions the game wants you to think about
>>316659332
He's using spoiler tags as they were intended to be used, come on man
>>316638804
Killing the first simon is fucking stupid. I mean just look at it from his perspective, the scan didn't work or so you think so, and then a robot appears in front of you and bashes your head in saying "i-it's for your own good :(" You'd defend yourself and try and live, what gives the other simon the right to kill you? Fuck that fucking copy
>>316659332
It's a courtesy not spoiling things for people casually coming across a thread. You don't need to take pride in being a spoilery asshole, you know. I would hope that's not the defining difference between here and reddit.
>>316659603
What gives you the right to kill any of the copies?
>people siding with Cath
I thought the whole point was that Cath was hanging onto a false hope.
They already admitted that a program can't contain the same complexity as an actual human mind. They just follow the motions.
Cath was deluding herself into thinking she was helping in some way, because it was the only way she could cope with her situation. A goal she had to see through to the end, for her own peace of mind, even if it was fruitless.
>>316659603
Could lead to some crisis of each Simon being mad as fuck and trying to kill each other until Catherine yells at them both to shut up and listen.
Then you have double the idiots.
>>316659789
The same rights that the copy would have to kill you, you're both identical
These are literally the questions the game is getting you to ask
>>316659815
>They already admitted that a program can't contain the same complexity as an actual human mind
That's an early version from holotapes, they describe that they've developed the means to a perfect copy later on
>>316659853
fuck why didn't they do this, it'd be surreal as fuck to have another Simon walking and talking in front of you
>>316620373
meme
>>316659789
Who said I'd kill any of my copies?
>>316659603
I killed him because I wouldn't want to live in that world abandoned, alone, in a hopeless situation full of nothing but fear and my inevitable death. It was hell on earth and he was basically trapped there with no hope, no purpose and would spend the rest of his life suffering. You could argue he could just do it himself but, honestly, I'd rather have someone pull the trigger then for me to do it myself.
>>316659160
>last human dies in front you
That's not necessarily true, but it depends on your definition of alive. In the bottom of delta I think it was with the big black enemies, all the crew members were "alive" downstairs, in shriveled bodies on life support to keep them from dying. Similarly, when you run into Ashley or whatever her name is outside of upsilon, she is being kept alive by the wau and says it's because "nothing can be allowed to die". You don't have to kill her, unplugging one cord keeps her alive and let's you progress, but her situation looks pretty grim. I thought about those people when I considered Killing the wau. I ultimately decided there was no longer any benefit to killing the wau and maybe it would figure some way to restore human consciousnesses to life, so I let it live.
>>316660002
That's just it, though. How can you judge that it's a perfect copy? What criteria would you use to establish that?
>>316660002
>Two Simons arguing with each other and Catherine while Catherine tries to calm them both down
>They have to get quiet and hide somewhere in the room when an enemy comes walking by, ending the current conflict knowing that if either of them makes a noise then they both are dead and fucked
>>316659815
>They already admitted that a program can't contain the same complexity as an actual human mind
Where? That wasn't clear to me at all. Source on this?
>>316660145
This is what I chose.
The WAU is in a state of growth/evolution, was continually trying to perfect what it did. In a few centuries it might have actually had something viable.
>>316659853
That'd be cool. Also add a random element at the start of the game, some games you end up as X simon and some as Y (assuming a story where both make it to the end by different means)
>>316660112
If it was possible to rebuild that omni tool on the cart in that room and load a Catherine onto it, then I would have let Simon A live. When you take Catherine and the omni tool though, that Simon doesn't have the pressure suit to dive with you and can't deal with the electric rape monster right outside of the sealed door, and wouldn't have the ability to do anything else past that because he would have no omnitool. I killed Simon a for that reason.
I did think about possible uses for Simon a, ie: using Simon a to retract the lift once we were done at phi, because evidently it could only be controlled from omicron for some dumb reason. But it turns out none of that mattered. Theoretically, Simon b is alive in phi, he wasn't killed by the power outage and he has a flashlight and an omnitool. I wanted to keep playing, he could have climbed up the gun barrel if he needed to.
>>316660845
>has an omnitool
Didn't that thing basically break? And even if he were to get out away from the giant space gun he'd be completely fucked with killer fish and no power to use anything. As much as I can remember there were no non-powered means of getting in or out of station buildings.
And if the omnitool were to continue being used, it can't be because the power outage killed it when he was arguing with Catherine.
Simon was a fucking idiot the whole game and it really took me out of it.
>>316661192
he's just a big dopey robot trying to get some juicy AI pussy
>>316661141
I don't think the omnitool broke, I think the power just died so it went out, like it does whenever you disconnect it. If it really broke, then Catherine b is rip and it gets a little rougher, but I still think simon could make it. It's not like he's gonna die of hunger or thirst anytime soon, he'll figure something out.
>>316661650
>Catherine was a lesbo or at least bi-curious
>simon starts in the body of a woman she really liked and then transferred into the body of another woman
Devs confirmed for tranny lovers
Wouldn't the WAU eventually "fix" earth?
It hasn't helped my existential terror at all
>>316660343
Audio file in one of the offices. That's where they also mention the coin toss theory.
>>316663143
The was job was not to fix earth, the waus's job was to conserve human life. The monsters in the game are the wau's attempts to put human "souls" into robots and modified bodies to jeep people "alive". The one psychiatrist guy goes on about how the wau doesn't understand what being alive really means and it's doing it wrong, which is why he needed to stop it.
By the time you get to the wau, humanity as we know it fucked. There are maybe half a dozen humans left alive, and it's nearly impossible that any of them can reproduce. If you let the wau live, it's possible that eventually it will find a way to recreate human bodies and maybe get some form of human-like life going again. Whether you believed that was possible or whether you followed the wishes of that one guy (Ross?) was the essence of the choice you made at the end of the game. As caitly says more than a couple times in the game about the ark, "this was never about certainty, it's about hope". That's why I decided the wau needed to live, maybe it could figure something out eventually, it's not like the monsters are gonna be able to do any more harm to humanity at that point.
If I was Simon as soon as I got on the ARK i would give Catherine SOMA my dick.
>>316663824
Well that's what I mean. Eventually the cancerous growth could terraform earth to be inhabitable again and then it would force reproduction.
>>316663143
No. It was using structure gel to infest animals and reanimate humans but the station only held so much gel. As far as I know it couldn't produce any more, just flood the station with it.
>>316663986
It managed to make Simon who wasn't a monster that attacked everything in his way, so...
>>316663786
The coin toss theory is absolutely wrong though. It shows in the game that there is no coin toss: if you're the original being copied, you are always not the new one. This is demonstrated with the audio file of old simon just after the scan and again at omicron where second simon says something like "wait why am I still here?" before Catherine puts him to sleep. There's no coin toss at all, the consciousness never moves. A new copy gets created with all the memories of the person before the scan, but there's no chance of "leaving" your body.
>>316664190
It really begs the question of why they didn't 'cut' instead of 'copy'
>>316664190
It also doesn't make any sense whatsoever to begin with.
>>316664163
A scientist had already stuffed gel into a corpse-filled suit with some cameras attached on top. The WAU uploaded his consciousness, but the gel the scientist used was taken from storage in the station. That's where all of it comes from.
>>316664190
I'm not saying it's right, just that that's where it's mentioned.
>>316664371
Because they couldn't. The technology allows scanning brains and using the brain scans data to form a certain person in a certain place.
It doesn't allow quantum teleportation of the entire brain
>>316663824
The reason why that guy didn't want WAU to do that is because, as Catherine explained, WAU isn't an AI capable of thought. It's pretty basic and it's just doing its function. Since it was already keeping its function fine by placing brain scans on those robots and reanimating corpses, I don't see why it would bother making actual humans. As far as WAU was concerned, that was good enough. Just look at the state everything was in. All you'd do by leaving WAU alone is condemn those brain scans and half-dead people to suffer for as long as WAU can keep them going.
>>316664591
I'm talking about Robo-Simon and Omnitool Catherine.
>>316664371
At this point we're dealing with fictional science so who knows, but here's something to think about: the human consciousness is entirely stored in the brain. The brain is made up of neurons and synapses that adapt to things people experience in life and change how electricity moves around it, which is what we call "learning"; the electricity is our "consciousness". Taking it as a given that somehow we can copy that, how would you "cut" that? If it's just electricity moving around neural pathways, the best way to "cut" it would be to do a brain transplant; outside of that you just copy the original and then delete it, which was sarang's whole "continuity" idea.
>>316664371
Cut is basically just copy + delete.
>implying a comet could hit Earth
>>316664981
>implying the comet would literally end all human life on the surface in a matter of minutes
>implying no one would make preparations for the comet to fuck everything up at least weeks if not years in advance
>implying an unthinking ai would somehow change the formula for "keep humans alive" just because billions of humans outside of its sphere of influence die
The ending is kinda a piece of shit and makes no sense but other than that the game is good.
>hurr durr we can only copy our conscious that is already in computer chips
>we can not upload ourselves onto the ARK
>copy does work in the future but paste not
fucking hell dude, this is SUPER retarded
>>316664673
That's functionally the same thing as the original dying, hence the suicide after scan idea.
>>316664616
The last thing WAU makes is Simon II though right? That seems like the closest it's got to an actual human.
Who else didn't feel bad when it took you like 5 tries to get that one dude to give up the security cipher and he keeps screaming? I have no idea why Catherine decided to clue him in when she finally gets it from him, it was totally unnecessary and it's not like he would remember it anyway
>>316665226
I don't think you know how computer data works. I'm sure it's nice to think that magic elves carry data through tubes, but the only thing you can do with it is actually copy it to a new location and maybe delete the original. This post you're reading is just a copy of the one I typed.
>>316664673
Because it's impossible to truly transfer data. You can send copies and delete the original, but that's it.
>>316620373
Monsters are not needed
>>316665264
Simon II was a corpse with machines crudely stuck to hit, held together with gel inside a diving suit. The only part of him that was even remotely human was the brain scan and WAU didn't make it. Plus, it's not even sustainable. Even if there was a small chance that it would luck out and make something worthwhile and that its other creations didn't kill it, they would all run out of power because they're stuck in the bottom of the ocean in the ruins of a crumbling laboratory. This is exactly why it was so important to launch the ark into space. Pathos II doesn't have a source of energy that can last more than a couple of decades.
>>316664794
Has consciousness truly ever been properly scientifically defined and studied?
I might be wrong on this, but I think science has yet to properly dispute the idea of a "soul" or rather, the "ghost" in the machine/body
>>316665995
I don't know man, did you see the size of the shit WAU created? It's possible it could start reproducing itself and cover the entire world.
>>316665590
So basically I'm just like Simon then? kek
I blame all the fantasy games I played.
>>316666474
/sci/ once told me that a large majority of neuroscientists become depressed alcoholics. I think that's part of the reason why.
>>316666474
It's hidden somewhere inside the brain, but there's not much else that it can be. Consciousness is certainly not housed in the heart or anyplace else. Soul is just a name that people give to consciousness in the hope that some part of us carries on when our body dies, usually usually with reference to an afterlife where it goes. Simon talks a little about the idea of souls in the ride down from omicron.
>>316666586
It couldn't. That huge shit it made was draining the power of the station, which is why so much of it wasn't working anymore. WAU couldn't possibly leave Pathos II and it would eventually finish draining it and die.
Guys
Remember at the beginning of the game. Simon was hit by a fucking car in the head, so this fucking cracka can't think straight. That's why he's retarded at the end.
>>316666874
>>316666875
I just wonder because, for me to consistently be me for what feels like at least ten years, there has to be some science on that. On why "we" are "we" and not just hollow shells.
I feel like there are yet a million discoveries to be made about the "soul" or "ghost" that may or may not reside within us that are possibly beyond our current understanding.You don't really think mankind's knowledge on most subjects is completely flawless, do you?
>>316667109
the truth isthere is no answer and there never will be
>>316666474
You sound just like this guy that killed himself after the scan in the hopes he would be on the ARK.
It's already established that your consciousness is stored in some part of your brain. Why else do people wind up toddlers if they have brain damage? Basically everything that happens to your brain influences how you remember things, what you can do and stuff.
The whole soul idea is just christian bullshit made up, people can't accept/understand the concept of death because they are always alive and dead people don't speak.
>>316667109
We literally have no idea how the majority of the brain actually works. We've worked out the parts that regulate homeostasis and the ones that allow us to understand where our body parts are in relation to our core and the ones that house short term memory, but we have no idea how memories work, how events are determined to be important enough to create new neural pathways from or any idea what consciousness actually is. That being said, ascribing any mysticism has historically not been the correct way to think with regards to anything, so I'm hesitant to ascribe any mysticism to how consciousness works.
>>316667109
>for me to consistently be me for what feels like at least ten years
Technically you couldn't understand consciousness without understanding time (since the sense of "me" is bound to the present)
So no answer until you can explain time
>>316667516
But anon, what if the brain is the organ responsible for tethering the soul to the human body, and the result of damage is a weaker "tether" or "signal?"
>>316667512
And that is perhaps the greatest bliss. Who knows, perhaps the death we generally think and are afraid of is far less worrying than the truth.
>>316667516
Maybe you're right, senpai. Maybe it's just blind hope from my part. To be clear, I don't believe in reincarnation or an afterlife resembling anything close to heaven.
But I can't help but have a feeling that ten thousand years from now, way too much of what we assume or have proven is a fact will turn out to either not be exactly that way or not be a fact at all. If that makes sense.
I think we might live in a time-constrained bias, a bias that tells us we're right on the money in our theories, until someone a dozen times more intelligent than us, with the privilege of our history and new tools, thousands of years from now, finds some fact that blows every single one of us out of the water, including the most brilliant scientists.
And then that happens to that guy ten thousands years later, when they are the ones who think they know the facts.
Does what I'm saying make sense? Maybe not. Basically what I'm saying is that I have this pure conjuncture that we still have no fucking clue what we're talking about in a lot of shit, and that the true answers to a lot of our questions might be millions of years beyond our possible comprehension.
And I think stuff like space and conscience plays a part in that, like anything else.
But I'm probably wrong, maybe I was actually lucky to be born in an age when we are truly discovering the absolute truth.
>>316667839
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJLhnts9-oQ
>>316668056
Well we don't live in the future, we live in the now, and if we don't start laying the foundation for future scientific advancement, there won't be great scientific advances in the future. I never claimed modern science has all the answers, and the smartest people you ever meet will admit to the huge amount of shit that absolutely befuddles them even in the field they are an expert in, but that doesn't mean we should either rest on our laurels and hope someone else works it out or draw conclusions from un-scientific reasoning in the interim.
>>316624148
>I haven't played the game, still I'm gonna shitpost to fit in with the cool kids
>>316668056
>ten thousand years from now
>human race still alive and well
>>316668464
>and if we don't start laying the foundation for future scientific advancement
I completely agree with you, science is important and obviously saying "WELL BUT OUR FACTS MIGHT ALL BE WRONG BECAUSE OF SOME REASON I CAN'T THINK OF" is the most cancerous and unintuitive way of approaching science.
I'm just talking about this subject philosophically. Just kind of asking the question of "Do you think science could be wrong when looked at ten thousands years from now, assumed it evolves?"
And I'm not just talking about stuff like consciousness, which hasn't properly been discovered yet. Or what lies in space. I'm talking about stuff we assume are facts, such, as I dunno. The composition of Earth or something.
>>316668717
Heh, just theoretically. You never know.
>>316637097
Thanks for the observation turbo
>A version of Simon and Catherine make it into the Ark
>Thinking there's a silver lining to Robo Simon's misfortune
>Game zooms out to the destroyed Earth and the satellite
>Realize that Earth is doomed and the remains of humanity are on a hard drive and aren't even human anymore
>>316668056
I think you need to go away from thinking that science is all about facts. Science is just a good way to describe our world and how it works. Nobody ever said that science is our world. The world is our world and that will never change, no matter what kind of explanation someone gives. You can't describe the world with the world and that's why science exists.
>And I think stuff like space and conscience plays a part in that, like anything else.
There is not much to discover. The universe is not an endless thing like some people claim. It either has an end or there is something beyond that, calling it now. The reason is simple, everything that lives dies eventually and energy can be used up, there is no perpetuum mobile. The universe can't be this endless thing that came to be out of itself or whatever happened.
I could make shit up but what's the point, I rather argue from the point of view that we have now. The willdest thing I could dream of is that there is really something else besides space and planets out there. I highly doubt that the only thing you will find out there is just a bunch of planets, moons, black holes and aliens. There is probably more. I do hope that it is not some kind of 4chan troll god that created the universe because he was bored.
>>316669189
I dunno, Earth didn't look THAT destroyed to me. I could see some survivors. I mean, if you consider that in the fiction some fucks underwater survived it, then most certainly anyone that was in space at the time and not in the comet's trajectory survived it as well, for starters.
>>316668748
I'm not trying to sound smug here, but you should actually look at the math and science that goes into figuring out things like the composition of the earth. It may not be 100% correct and maybe in the future we'll adjust it by a couple percentage points per element, but there's 0 chance that we go into the center of the earth and find out the core is packed to the brim with gold or something.
For instance, the expression for the universal gravitational constant that explains the attractive force between any 2 particles in the universe can be used to estimate the mass of the earth. When mathematically simplified for earth, it turns into the experimentally verified acceleration due to gravity on earth.
Science isn't just a bunch of theories built on top of each other, it's backed by results that pop up too frequently to be coincidences, and after very rigorous experimentation, some theories become "fact", like how the atom is the fundamental building block of matter. There are many things that science currently cannot explain, but we gotta keep working at it or it'll never get discovered. It's not a failure to have your theory (which is scientifically different from a fact) overturned in the future, because the future will hopefully have smarter people and better equipment working on the problem.
>>316620373
Loved it, most immersed and scared I've been in a long time.
What was the purpose of the Curie's submersible mode?
>>316669278
>There is not much to discover
See, that's where I think you might be wrong. Pure conjecture of my part, I fully admit, but I have the suspicion that you're wrong in that precise sentence. That there is still a lot of wild shit well beyond our comprehension that we can't even begin to think of.
I would like to give some funny example like yours, of us just being a simulation, but that's the thing. I suspect the truth might just be far more incredible than anything any one of us could imagine in our lifetimes.
>>316669343
I have no idea what happened to the submarine you traveled through after delta. Did it run aground or something after running out of fuel? We know it survived the comet because there was the recording playing about how life on the surface had been extinguished, but it looks like it crashed or something.
>>316620373
I liked it. I would have liked it more without the monsters, but they're not so bad. I like that each encounter has a specific gimmick to it and that each area has its own monster type instead of repeating them. A couple of them were actually pretty good. The exploration and puzzle-solving sections were still way more enjoyable.
HIPS
>>316669438
It's alright to be smug, I understand where you're coming from and I completely acknowledge that I'm just some dumbass talking shit and making thoughts up against a bunch of scientists that actually dedicate their life to this shit and know what they're talking about. If anything, I'm surprised I haven't been more blown the fuck out by a /sci/ poster that happened to see this thread.
I guess I'll give an historical example to see if maybe I can justify my stupid theory better and not come out as big a dumbass. William Thomson proved to us that Earth couldn't possibly be 100 million years old or older with terrestrial heat flow. This was 100% accepted... Until it wasn't. With the discovery of radioactivity, his theory was completely blown out of the water. This was not that far ago, it was only in the late 1950s! Not even a hundred years old!
I guess what I'm arguing is that there could be a thousand examples similar to radioactivity that involve a scientist finding out some incredible fact none of us had considered before that disprove shit or completely shift the perspective.
>>316669875
I felt that every encounter was the same with the exception of the last one and the asshole who fucked your vision up just by looking at him, god that was annoying. Most monsters in the game were blind but not deaf, so if you crouch walked, you'd be fine even walking in front of them. The thing in omicron automatically aggroes when you start walking through the tunnel, so as soon as you get to the room where it's chilling after you get the power thing, you just start sprinting.
The last guy I faked out by walking through a circular section and sprinting to the second door. While I waited for the door to open, he ran around like a complete idiot long enough for me to just leave.
>>316669881
thas too scawy fo me
>>316669653
I have no problem some alien women rolling over my dick but that's about it. Maybe we might not like the truth when it surfaces. Happy ends only exist in movies and what we make of the world. We can't influence in any way what is out there still to be discovered. The world is already a shitty place, I don't wanna find out we are just some experiment by some higher race like in Starcraft.
>>316620373
I thought it was quite good. And I think that threads like these with a lot of discussion about the game further confirm that the concepts in the game are interesting enough to be discussed. I agree with >>316669875 on the monster types. I enjoyed that the monsters each had their own thing going. With Amnesia I felt the encounters became pretty repetitive but this was at least a bit more varied.
Also, I know some people think Simon was stupid to have not realized how the conscious copying works, but I didn't mind that myself. If you understand that as the player then you understand one other thing: Everything up until you are "born" as Simon 3 is just a memory as a result of being copied from a previous Simon. So while Simon doesn't understand or forgets how the thing works, to the player there IS actually a "coin toss" in a way. Once we make the copy at the end, we'll know if we've been playing as Simon 3 or just experiencing the memories of Simon 4. So to me Simon expecting it to "transfer" him didn't bother me because it just was sort of in line with my feelings as the player with an outside view, you know?
>>316670278
they took the "don't look at the monsters" gimmick from amnesia and went too far with that guy, especially considering it wasn't scary.
The only monster I liked was the proxy, since you were stuck in such a small area with it and were constantly attracting it while working in the room
No other monster felt as threatening
>>316670259
Oops, let me correct something. It was the late 1800s, not the late 1900s. Not even 200 years old, not 100.
What the hell was with the Game Over death slideshow? Too fucking spooky.
>>316644624
The combat in Penumbra was so bad that it didn't need to be there at all. That's why they took it out. It's tough to make it useful, but not so useful as to kill the horror aspect.
In Penumbra you could just outrun every enemy too. So if you knew where you needed to be you weren't in danger of dying.
>>316670278
>>316670545
Are you guys kidding me? The submarine dude was by far the coolest. Teleporting enemies are the greatest and I think they did them really well.
>>316670278
Pretty sure most of them aren't blind. Only Akers and the proxies. The first enemy is a standard stealth encounter where you have to stay out of its sight. Fleshers don't react much to you if you don't look at them or get too close, so the gimmick with those was trying to find a route while being aware of where they are and using the doors to your advantage, which doesn't work on any other monster. Robot girl is definitely not blind and she's standing right in the way, so you have to figure out what to do in order to take the battery. Sure, it just involves not doing any sudden movements, but by then you don't really know what to expect. The fish are mostly about running from light to light, although you do have to see where Leviathan is coming from so that you can dodge him. Jin is also all about modifying your route like the fleshers, but he's actively hunting you down the whole way and looking straight at him is actually beneficial, so it's still different. And even though there's a bunch of Proxy encounters, there's different objectives in each one and you sometimes have to lure them. They definitely feel varied enough.
>>316670259
I'm not sure that's the best example though. Kelvin was never considered an authority on the age of the earth, he was just a guy who used his partucular field of knowledge (in his case, he started from a bad premise: that the earth gets warmer as you get closer to the core, therefore the earth must be cooling) to attempt to answer a question posed by someone else, the actual answer was up for contention between him and a couple other people. And like I said above, it's not a big deal to be wrong in science; sometimes putting something out there will renew interest in the subject for others to put more work and a different perspective on it. Even Sir Isaac Newton's laws of notion were not actually correct for a long time after he formulated them, but it was a good start for other scientists to build on.
>>316671096
Maybe the static universe is a better example, then? Looking back now most people see that it was flawed from the start, but I do believe the science community at a large believed in that idea.
The Abyss is one of the coolest if not the best portrayal of an ocean level ever.
And that anglerfish was neato.
>Be in the Abyss
>Red lights clearly showing where I'm supposed to go
>I immediately go out of the borders and start exploring, expecting some sort of death state or something
>Pure darkness
>Continue running forward
>The wind starts blowing as a white mist comes by the screen
>Continue walking
>Strange sounds, nothing happens
>Alright, this is some kind of infinite loop, I'll just turn back
>Turn back, keep running, start climbing weird mountains, everything is dark and there is still a white mist
>Follow the white mist
>Suddenly I'm falling an eternal fall
>Ah, so here's the end of the Abyss, this is how you die if you go too far
>Literally keep falling off the Earth for two minutes before I finally exit the game and load it back up
>Try again
>I get hit and transported back when I leave the Abyss
>That's how it was supposed to work all along
One of the scariest bugs ever
>>316671061
I dunno man, I definitely crouch - walked away from robot girl in the power room. I actually had a really hard time aggro ing her, I think what eventually did was me hitting her with a bucket or something, then I got her to run to the far side of the loop in that area, grabbed the battery and coasted on out of there. Did you have your flashlight on? I spent so much time dicking around with the fat black egg guys that I know they're blind unless you shine your flashlight directly on them from a range of like 2 feet, that whole basement of delta was me casually kiting around and between them in a crouch with my light off.
The first encounter I admittedly didn't experiment with.
I never got the big fish to attack me except the one scripted time right before phi, but that submarine dude fucked me up because I didn't see the wheel that dropped a ladder for like 10 minutes and moving through that area was a pain in the ass with him screwing with your vision even through walls.
>>316671730
>I never got the big fish to attack me except the one scripted time right before phi
There are no scripted big fish attacks. If you got the state where you go flying in the air and then the fish eventually drops you, that's basically a fail state.
It took me like 20 minutes to play in that level and go through the area without the gigantic eel fucking my shit up. That motherfucker is a hard last boss to the game.
As for the enemies, I can tell you guys what I know:
>>316671061
>>316671730
-The robot is most certainly not blind or deaf.
-The huge lights guy is also absolutely not blind, and it can in fact kill you even if you are not looking at it, although his view cone seems to be far smaller if you do so. I do not know if he's deaf or not.
-The woman at tau is not blind or deaf, but she seems to have two different states, one where she's not activated and just standing around, and on where she actually starts moving. She's way too slow to be a threat either ways, to be honest.
>>316669840
I don't know, never thought about it. Why would it even have electricity going, and who made those reports?
>>316671730
I didn't lure Robot Girl away from the battery at all. I got near and stopped doing any sudden movements whenever she started screaming and was able to take the battery without her ever trying to chase me. But she's definitely not blind. It's just that even if she sees you, she won't necessarily try to kill you. Once she's after you, though, she'll spot you if you walk into her line of vision and run way faster than normal.
Not sure who you mean by fat black egg guys. I think you mean the proxies. Those are definitely blind. You actually learn that before you even encounter them. But no other enemy in the game is blind. It's just that some of them won't necessarily become hostile the moment they see you.
Catherine mislead Simon at the end right? Why would she program the launch and the mind transfer to the same button knowing that after the "transfer" there would still be a Catherine and Simon left behind? Only reason I can think of is that it makes Simon think there won't be anybody left behind. Is that right?
>>316672572
By fat black egg guys I think he means the dude(s?) that has/have a scripted encounter to hit you and put you into that black egg you get out of.
Are those the proxy or different? I'm actually not sure. It was in the same place as the proxy, but it might be a different enemy.
>>316672858
Hard to tell with Catherine, she seems hugely anti-social and dumb but sometimes a bit manipulative. It could be just airheadness, manipulation or a combination of both.
>>316646124
The original brain scan technique wasnt capable of capturing the "true complexity of human nature". The WAU scans and human scans, when standalone, were imperfect.
After the WAU/Human hybrid scans came to be (starting with Imogen Reed), the scans were considered perfect copies.
>>316672897
The one that grabs you in the scripted encounter is Akers. The other similar enemies in the area are his proxies. All of those are blind because Akers gouged his own eyes out when he was still human.
>>316673226
I see, so they're the same enemy.
It does explain why I got into so much trouble with them more than anyone else, the way I play Fractional Games is by grabbing shit and throwing it everywhere until every room in the game is a mess.
>>316673137
What was the point of shooting the ARK into space if they were imperfect copies?
>>316673639
They aren't. You misread that post.
They were before, the ones in the Ark aren't.
I think it's kind of fucked up how there's only like 8 people left alive on earth, and the one guy kills Catherine with a wrench because he starts having second thoughts. They were literally 10 feet from loading the ark after going down from omicron and walking all the way to phi, and he decides now is the time to decide maybe we shouldn't do this and kill one of the few remaining humans (and one of 2 females). What a fucking idiot.
Catherine does mention how she knows that sometimes she's hard to get along with, though.
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/wihJUAr.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
I don't think the WAU should be killed. While It's created monsters in it's early attempts to replace dead humans, It was obviously getting better with Simon and Catherine.
It's basically like the plot of Talos Principle, where humans leave a program to test and develop AIs until one becomes independent enough to inherent humanity's legacy.
I think the WAU would do the same in time.
>>316626263
>>316644923
>How the fuck did Simon not understand what was going to happen at the end? It was fucking obvious.
He was mad because he made it through two different brain transfers on the other side already. Since it had always gone well for that specific Simon he just assumed it'd happen again.
>>316638085
GOTYAY
>>316638804
I killed Simon fearing for his hopelessness but knowing what I do now I think you should leave him alive because you could go back and save him after the end of the game.
>>316659041
>>316673952
+1, niggas went crazy and did their own fucked up shit without the involvement of the WAU
>>316669875
While I hated the gameplay aspects of the monsters I loved the lore behind them, especially Akers who seemed like a major protagonist in the game with all the shit he managed to fuck up.
>>316673137
Have you seen the Transmissions? I loved the part where Imogen said it's not real, made me think the entire Transmission series was a simulation in combination with what the game said about how she doesn't play nice in simulations.
>>316673639
The ones in the ARK are perfect copies, Catherine observed and used the WAU's brain perfect scanning technique after the WAU got inspired by her artificial reality capsule.
>>316673917
It was really stupid how they got scared and refused to launch it too.
>>316673838
I'm confused. So the copies before being put on the ARK, the human standalone versions, were imperfect. But they later became perfect when compared with the WAU/Human hybrid scans? Or did they somehow manage to upload hybrid scans on the ARK?
>>316674161
>Catherine observed and used the WAU's brain perfect scanning technique after the WAU got inspired by her artificial reality capsule.
This raises even more questions. When you try to pry information out of that one test subject in Omnicron he always acts the same when he gets angry, wouldn't that be considered an imperfect scan?
>>316673480
Yeah, all of the enemies in Theta are proxies. Akers is special, but you don't actually find him outside the scripted encounters. Except for the second proxy, who was in such a big area, I thought they were the hardest enemies to deal with. They may be blind, but they have really fucking good hearing. And they're more aggressive than some of the other monsters.
>>316674490
>he always acts the same when he gets angry, wouldn't that be considered an imperfect scan?
Catherine said at some point in the game that you need some grounding in reality otherwise the scan realizes nothing's real and gets agitated. That's why during parts like when you should've drowned after calling Lambda you have a breakdown and start seeing how your reality is bullshit with your real hands appearing. Or even think back to Carl, remember how pissed he got when you suggested to him that he wasn't real? Also, I thought it was pretty neat that it had Brandon shut down when he got over-stressed sincethe same thing happened with Catherine at the end of the game.
>>316674161
No, Simon didn't make it through 2 brain transfers. When he's first scanned, he dies from complications from his accident a month after the scan. But since you play as simon 2 at that time, it appears as though you "won the coin toss".
When Simon 2 gets copied over in omicron, he doesn't transfer over either. He asks Catherine why he didn't transfer before Catherine puts him to sleep. Since the game shifts perspective to simon 3 at that point, it appears as though he "won the coin toss". When the ark launches, the game doesn't immediately change tour perspective, so we get to see what it's like to be the simon that gets copied. Then right after that, it shifts perspective to simon 4, which makes it appear that he has "won the coin toss".
There is no coin toss, it's entirely possible that there could be 3 "living" Simons at one time at that point in the game. The end of the game just basically let's you know what an asshole you were if you killed Simon 2, because now it shows you that the old simon never went away, it just didn't let you see how it was on the "losing side of the coin flip".
>>316675045
You missed my point.
>No, Simon didn't make it through 2 brain transfers.
In his mind he does, that's why he's so ridiculously frustrated at the end because he doesn't understand what it's like to be on the other side.
>>316675045
Killing Simon 2 was a mercy. Trapping him with those monsters, in the dark, would have been a bigger dick move.
>>316675159
>he doesn't understand
Whoops,
>he didn't understand
>>316674902
I know, but he gets mad the same way every time, no matter how many attempts.
>>316675159
But it's not that he makes it through the transfer, it's that the GAME shifts our perspective to the new simon. In every single transfer case, there is a simon left behind who gets fucked. The only reason we feel that Simon gets fucked in the final transfer is because the game allows us to see the losing side of the toss there. Simon loses every single coin toss from the "original" side, and wins all of them from the "copy" side, there's always a frustrated Simon. If the game didn't let us see the losing side of the final toss, most people probably wouldn't think about it and just think there was a happy ending.
>>316675045
the coin toss is talking about the player perspective.
>>316675358
Well it's like the exact same thought patterns going through his simulated brain each time it's attempted. I guess his response might be different if you waited a different amount of time before interacting with him each time but then he just shuts down from too much stress.
>>316675486
I get that, I'm just saying why Simon gets frustrated. Lots of people think that he understands the concept but why would you really care unless it affects you directly?
>>316675045
That's why he said "that specific Simon". Simon3 is a copy but by his understanding, he's Simon2 and won the 'coin toss'.
It was Simon who came up with the coin toss concept in the first place. Catherine just adopted it so Simon would get angry at fate instead of her.
>>316675045
>The end of the game just basically let's you know what an asshole you were if you killed Simon 2
But you killed him so that he didn't have to experience realizing he lost the flip. If the same thing happened to Simon 3 it would have just faded out as the rocket launched.
>>316675538
I think coin toss was just an excuse Catherine made up to give simon enough hope to carry on, like saying "get on the ark" instead of " make a copy of us to go on the ark". I don't think the game was breaking the fourth wall ever.
>>316674161
I didnt even know the Transmissions were a thing. Thanks, anon.
I really liked the universe Soma takes place in, but I doubt we'll ever see much more of it, given the plot, so this is nice.
>>316675712
>I didnt even know the Transmissions were a thing.
You should also check out the item docs. Some of them are text, some are standalone videos, and some are videos that are in the transmissions or referenced in transmissions.
Don't you guys think that there was a big opportunity missed at the villains? The WAU shit was cool and all, but it felt a bit detracted from the plot.
Why wasn't one of the villains the REAL Catherine who didn't fully agree with her A.I. counterpart because of different experiences that diverged from the A.I.? Or another clone of Simon? Instead of Catherine conveniently having something to make Simon #2 sleep, have him go berserk and try to stop Simon #3
A big missed chance, imo
>crash on rail to next destination
>walk all the way to the exit
>"I forgot the tool"
>actually have to walk all the way back to the crash and get it
>nothing actually happens on the way back to and from there
Here I was thinking I was gonna get something special for being stupid.
>>316675712
They made a life-action movie called Depth if you want to explore the universe a bit more anon. It's technically a prequel though.
>>316622342
Don't fix what ain't broke, especially when you're the only one doing it.
>>316675869
There's like 2 or 3 different ways that event plays out. The one I got had one of those discohead guys near the train that drops from the ceiling who promptly "teleports" away with his big electromagnetism shock things.
>>316675857
The entire game was full of wasted potential. Great setting, unique monsters, godlike sound design but they stuck with generic sci-fi themes.
>>316676081
I either saw a disco head or ross, I'm not entirely sure which. Can you remember to take the omnitool with you, or is it unselectable right after the crash?
>>316676307
You can take it with you. Picking up the omnitool was the first thing I did after regaining control.
>>316676307
You can take it. Actually, I think you can even take the train without seeing Amy if you don't touch the WAU butt and drain all the power.
Did anyone else see the door robot near the beginning of the game?
>>316675857
>Instead of Catherine conveniently having something to make Simon #2 sleep, have him go berserk and try to stop Simon #3
I wanted this too. Since they talked about wearing the powersuit over the diving suit before, I figure a desperate Simon would revert to that plan and hunt the imposter Simon.
Real question is how to make Simon2 threatening. Simon3 should be stronger because of the powersuit.
>>316676191
I think they should have done more with the idea of copies of people. There needed to be a part where you and or Catherine ran into a copy of the one of you. They even talk about it on the way down to tau. Also, most of the choices in the game don't do anything for the story and that annoyed the shit out of me:
>Kill Amy or decide to let her live
>no difference except some sad music and the station has some more lights on
>kill Carl or destroy the power station thing
>no difference except you aggro the enmy from the previous area
>kill simon 2 or let him live
>doesn't matter, you never get back to him
>kill the last living human or let her live
> she heckles you if you leave her alive, talks with you for a bit if you let her die
Really disappointing on that front
>>316676472
I noticed that some of the wau butts had some kind of story effect (there's even a conversation in delta I think about simon using them), but I avoided as many as possible because I didn't need healing and I didn't notice any difference. I'm pretty sure I didn't use the one after upsilon and I still needed to do the Amy decision to get in the tram.
>>316676693
I think if anything, the lack of punishment/reward makes the choices more important. It's entirely your judgement which is the right thing to do.
It's not like Bioshock where the obnoxious moral choice is bullshit, because refusing to drain the little sisters means you get better stuff from them as gifts.
>>316676654
>Real question is how to make Simon2 threatening.
It could've just been a psychological scene like it ended up being. Would've been pretty neat to have to restrain him from taking Cath and running from you or something only to end up accidentally killing him from stress.
>>316676693
The problem with having real Catherine alive is that she would've launched the ARK then. If the end was that you went there and the ARK was already launched then you couldn't have had the final sequence where you're left alone. I did play the game expecting the ARK to not be there though because Catherine kept talking about how real Catherine could've already done.
>>316676693
>There needed to be a part where you and or Catherine ran into a copy of the one of you.
That would've been pretty awesome.
>Also, most of the choices in the game don't do anything for the story and that annoyed the shit out of me:
I think the Amy one might've affected something you said to Sarah at the end. I liked that you never saw the impact of your choices though because it gave a lot more meaning of the actions to you, showing that nobody else really cares since everybody is dead. The only one I wish was different is I wish something would've happened different with leaving the WAU alive besides keeping your arm. Would've been pretty nice to at least have the WAU go ;^) at you through the computer systems or something.
>>316676863
A lot of them just suck the power out, give it to you, and fuck everything around them.
>I'm pretty sure I didn't use the one after upsilon and I still needed to do the Amy decision to get in the tram.
Hm, well there's something you can do to not see Amy, not sure what it is.
>>316676982
I don't mean in a punishment reward way (I also noticed that about the little sisters real quick), I just mean something like
>choose to kill Carl
>enemy aggros
>choose to depower station thing
>other stations have locked doors or more dark areas because you broke whatever that thing was and it said it was important
>kill simon 2
>he's dead
>don't kill simon 2
>when you're in tau or phi he contacts you and gets pussy because you left him behind
Just something that let's you realize there are consequences to your actions, not incentive to make a decision one way or another
>>316677238
>choose to kill Carl
>enemy aggros
That part is affected by choice. If you use the WAU butt or the switch near it to give Carl a painless death the enemy comes. If you de-power Carl with the switch near him and make him suffer then no enemy comes.
>don't kill simon 2
>when you're in tau or phi he contacts you and gets pussy because you left him behind
10/10 idea
>>316677238
Meant to say choose to kill Carl nd enemy aggroes
And gets pissy* There's only one place simon 2 would be getting pussy in omicron and it goes against that advice about sticking your dick in crazy
>>316676693
>get hyped up after watching Mockingbird and Vivarium, start dreaming up a narrative for the unexplained elements in each video
>play the game one year later
I was fully expecting the game to be about arriving on a metal planet full of life that would transform science equipment and personnel into monstrous shit. Where the hell did the body-snatching cyborgs and insectoid labyrinths go? Also why is this game trying to force me to question my own humanity when the species outright doesn't exist in the game universe anymore? I can't care about anything when the crisis is technically already over.
>>316677432
>Where the hell did the body-snatching cyborgs and insectoid labyrinths go?
There's videos of the early game in one of the game folders. It looks pretty lame, WAU can move its shit around at high speeds and is more personified, you have different weapons and shit, there's lots of people trying to kill you who are obsessed about some religion, and Catherine is a tiny British cube. Oh also WAU's base looks a lot more like the shit in Alien.
>>316677614
One of the first mods someone put on Steamworks has the wau tracking you and sending enemies to you. I haven't played it and it's still pretty early in the games lifetime for the mod to be better than amateur crap, but it's something.
Who or what created Simon 2 (the one you wake up as in the beginning of the game)? If it was WAU, why wasn't he mad like the other robots and creations?
>>316678396
It was the WAU, you can see that it did it in the console near you with all the streaming text. It says something about saving humanity, getting power, Imogen Reed, Simon, WAU, etc. As for why he wasn't mad it's probably because you weren't in a nightmare before you got scanned like the rest of the Pathos staff plus you're the WAU's latest creation. It made you so you could turn the power generator at Upsilon back on. Also, I think you're in Reed's body because she was probably the closest person since she was the one who shut off the power.
>>316678396
It was the WAU, the reason why you're better is because the WAU was slowly improving on it's designs. Catherine goes into detail on this if you scan yourself on the Ark Prototype part.
>>316677614
With the exception of the cult, gunplay and Catherine box that video seemed alright. It reminded me a lot of the Penumbra series where we see the protagonist completely lose his mind.
Am I the only one who thinks Frictional's greatest work so far is Justine, a short story they made just to boost extra hype for Portal 2?
Prenumbra had good concepts but is clearly a developer trying to find its footing. Amnesia they finally got the presentation right but the story is just so goofy. And while I like Soma for it going more towards Asimov style Sci-Fi mystery the lack of intimidating levels mixed with the linear level design became very grating.
Justine is the only game they made that really disturbed me, it's far more grounded in a twisted horror reality that it makes me all the more engrossed by it. Wish they'd go for more simplistic stories.
I liked it, but I don't like how it was never explained why they couldn't just cut and paste themselves into the ARK. The people that killed themselves had the right idea, imo.
>>316681238
Because the technology just doesn't work that way.
They can scan people's brains to the most minute detail and they can transfer said data to computers and have it activated on objects.
But they can't quantum teleport an entire brain, including it's conscience, into computers and then just put it whether they want.
The distinction is pretty big, believe it or not. It's the literal difference between having computers powerful enough to scan an entire brain and function like one (which is already pretty colossal) and outright transplanting a brain into the internet.
>>316620373
Why is it so hard to design it so the consciousness of the person being copied is just transferred over to the new body/system?
