ITT: nitpicks about your main
>Fsmash has a sourspot
where?
and well
Kirby
>up air is a better neutral air than neutral air
DDD
>that horrible lag on fair to an already shitty move
>Charizard
>Shit tier initial dash
>>316615887
>no sword beams
WHY
>>316616867
So that Cloud could have them, silly.
>no longer makes little beeps while he's running
Ike is the most handsome of the entire Smash roster.
>>316616867
The story goes, is that Sakurai had a "good" idea for a heavy swordsman and asked the FE team for a good character to slap on it. The moveset was made with zero consideration of anything Ike actually does.
Duck Hunt
>sweetspot fair has no kill power
>>316617130
Forget my main
>>316617220
And Link is still slower than Ike for the most part.
Ganon
>unless you DI up, you dont recover at moderate high percents
>horrible dash speed
>horrible dash grab
>neutral b only relevant with mindgames and for styling on people
>does not resemble how i think the dorf should be in smash
Im also not very good at the game so grains of salt.
>down-air only hits 5 times and isn't a meteor smash move
If Kirby can meteor smash with his down-air, then why Dr. Mario can't?
>>316617905
I still support the idea of giving a completely new moveset to Ganondorf in Smash and giving his old one to Black Shadow (F-Zero).
>>316618512
They will never, people will bitch if they change his moveset. Black shadow would be the tits, but ofc Nintendo doesnt think f-zero is relevant. Guess i have to try project m to get a cool Oot gannon experience.
>>316618790
Ganon*
fuck me, i cant spell.
>Shinespikes
>>316617220
Source? Is this true?
>>316620456
https://web.archive.org/web/20120621110302/http://www.geocities.jp/bgrtype/gsl/words2/dairantosmabrax/smashbrothersx.html
Hope you can read japanese
>>316615887
>you cannot reverse aether the edge anymore
>eruption has no iframes
>dtilt no longer spikes
I could go on.
They really fucked ike over.
>a great deal of my attacks are considered projectiles and thus have garbage priority and can be nullified like there's no tomorrow
Who am I?
>>316615887
>horrible end lag
>>316621475
who is villager/link/tink
>>316621475
Megaman?
>>316621475
Mega mang
>embarrassingly bad usmash
>>316621423
I agree vanilla ike was arguably the worst character in the game and was fucked over from brawl.
But he's been given a moveset overhaul almost every patch and he's Top 15 at least.
>>316621678
>>316621642
>>316621679
>What is Olimar?
>Toon Link exists
Shitty lasers is my only complaint. The whole point of Fox's laser from Melee onwards is to be fast and weak to differentiate it from Falco's. It's horribly slow to end.
He's big and slow and shit but he's still my favorite.
Smash 4 is garbage.
no actual complaints really, she's pretty good and fun to play
>>316621860
>Olimar
>Garbage Priority
That does not add up
>overall low damage and knockback
>large recovery on projectile
>>316621423
Ike is way better now, you can reverse Aether yourself, d-tilt is faster and can follow up into aerials. And all his frame data is better.
>>316621895
Add hitboxes to his arms on all his tilts and Smashes and he'll be fine.
>>316621954
His damage is fine, but his aerial movement is a fucking disgrace.
You can block while being hit by EX Hadoken
>>316622272
I felt like this until I watched my replays. Maybe they buffed him since I haven't played in a while but he was weak and I barely racked up damage after many successful reads. But his speed allows him to engage and run away at will.
His aerial movement leaves a lot to be desired though.
>>316622272
>Look it up
>He's just barely better than Charizard
Holy fuck that's depressing.
Dr. Mario's tornado is worse than Luigi's in every way.
Too punishable on shield and bad landing lag without MALLC.
>>316621942
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVFMCyfO3d0
>any of this guy's Peach videos
Not even a Peach main, but it's cool to watch.
>>316621735
>Yoyo no longer extends farther the longer you hold it
Bullshit
>>316622493
>>316622536
I hadn't noticed the shit air speed until the tour I went some months ago where I literally couldn't get to the ground because everyone could just follow me easily and punish anything I wanted to do.
>>316621532
I feel your pain. I play her a little, but you have to be a god of reads because even her light attacks have endlag out the wazzoo.
>>316621942
I always think Peach would fit my playstyle but I can't actually play her for shit in Melee or Sm4sh
>tfw I just wanna be like good like Armada
>>316621942
My nigga.
>>316622924
Its awful. Ironically the same gameplan that pit uses to win can be used against him and its super effective.
>needs customs to really shine
>shit end lag
>F. Smash range is balls
>costumes suck
>fully extended arm + sword has less reach than Samus' leg or Falcon's Elbo
>his reach is garbage overall except neutral air and up tilt.
I might as well be holding a knife.
>doesn't have her own moveset
>>316623452
probably one of the worst vanilla characrers
Literally has to put in 300% or will lose badly and some moves are punishable on hit. I think her only non shit moves are running attack,up smash.f and b air and u air.
>>316615887
>Can get juggled to shit
>up tilt a shit
>side special is pretty eh
>I'm shit at landing his d-air
>>316623137
>tfw I just wanna be like good like ArmadaEmbrace Fox
>>316623452
>>316623774
>Mfw vanilla Palutena will NEVER EVER get buffed because she's balanced around custom moves
>Mfw custom moves will NEVER EVER be an option in normal FG or be used by the comp scene at large
>>316623927
If I recall correctly Armada plays Diddy in this game. Time to main hoo hah.
>>316618470
>that recovery
Can he float with his cape, or was that removed?
Where my Mewtwo mains at.
>Mewtwo's only flaw
>Is being Fucking flawless
Mewtwo is too perfect, it needs a major nerf.
>>316624385
Armada played Diddy once, maybe. He doesn't even like Smash 4.
>>316623927
I don't think I'm technical enough for Fox, at least not yet
I don't even consistently short hop with Marth yet, I don't think I should be worrying about even harder to play characters
>>316621952
Yes it does.
WAY too fucking light.
Other than, I actually really like mewtwo
>>316622272
I agree. He feels so sluggish. And his midair jumps barely increase his height too.
>>316621942
Yea, she could use a very tiny bit of buffs/tuning and she'd be fine. For Sm4sh standards, anyway.
>>316624554
Nah man, mewtwo main here.
Mewtwo is a fucking combo monster, I can zero to death someone with mewtwo sometimes, but if he gets comboed its over. Mewtwo's biggest downfall is his lightness.
>>316624809
It's so weird for a small character with wings to have bad air mobility but I guess it makes sense for Pit.
>>316622012
This.
>>316624720
His hitboxes are fucked and he can't snap to ledge on his second jump. But other than those three crippling flaws, I like his moveset anyway
>>316621216
Which part is the Ike part?
>all his shit is slow to come out and has loads of end lag
If he just had better frame data, he would be top tier. That range with a little more speed behind it and less time spent recovering after an attack would be 2Dank.
>>316624720
>Sidesmash
>Miss because they were right in front of mewtwo rather than the hitbox he puts slightly in front of him
FUCKING WHY
my nitpick is that she is fucking shit
seriously nothing she does is safe on shield
>useless down A
>useless side B
Why can't he be more like he was in Brawl?
also >>316617130
>>316625236
>>316622853
All of this. It's ridiculous how crippling this one flaw is.
Also, fuck the swinsuit, I wanted the High Entia armor.
>>316623635
His sword is literally the same length as in Melee. Maybe even longer. I don't know why people think otherwise.
Pros
>Strong smashes
>Quick Smashes
>Quick movement
>Good recovery
>Projectile counter
Cons
>RNG
>Lightweight=Easy KO
I don't even mind the RNG since I just play with my friends, so it's really just how quick he can die that bugs me
>>316625442
>not Alvis colors for an actual blue costume
Fuck yourself M8.
>>316624429
Not anymore, but he can now walljump for his recovery.
>>316625654
>>His sword is literally the same length as in Melee. Maybe even longer.
you don't play Marth
>>316625654
I've never heard a bigger lie in my life
![latest[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/yvS5PH9.png "latest[1].png")
>best anti-gimp option in the game
>kills him too
It's sick to land a Ganoncide but it also means you can only really use it when you're in the stock lead
I seriously think he wouldn't be that OP if the ganoncide only spiked the opponent and didn't put him in freefall upon connecting
>>316625310
>use pound, a shield breaking move
>get shieldgrabbed
fucking christ
>>316624710
Olimar's priority is fine relative to the rest of the cast. He doesn't have to be brawl Olimar and cut through everything like butter.
>lmao no range
Root cause of 90% of his problems.
>>316625654
>I don't actually play Marth in any smash: the post
>Luma dies
GG NO RE
>>316625946
>you can only really use it when you're in the stock lead
or when you have the same amount
>I seriously think he wouldn't be that OP if the ganoncide only spiked the opponent
Like Captain Falcon in Brawl? Seriously, I have no idea why they nerfed that
>>316625946
I wish using flame choke in the air made him just gave him some end lag in the air instead of free fall, like how they did falco phantasm.
>>316626242
>camp a little
>shield-grab to stale time
>run off-stage and use your OP disjoints if anyone approaches you
>luma's back
>>316624720
>Disable as they land facing your direction
>They turn at the last second somehow and it misses.
>>316626242
fuck you, luma comes back in under 15 seconds, not even that big a deal
>>316625686
>Quick Smashes
All of his Smashes are slow as fuck.
What he also needs is RNG manipulation on Judge.
>>316623452
>Character entirely based around custom moves
>Banned fucking everywhere
LMFAO. NICE SAKURAI.
>>316626242
A luma-less Rosalina is still at least mid tier and runs circles around the lowest of characters, with all those fucking disjointed moves.
And she's in the game with one of the strongest options to play defensively, so losing Luma doesn't hurt that much.
>Everything
>>316624720
>get knocked into the air
>gently floating back down ad the opponent on the ground prepares to attempt to juggle.
>Suddenly, quickfall
>disable
>taunt
>Full powered smash
Mfw
>>316626870
as*
>>316626870
>Teleports to make mewtwo disappear as the gameset screen appears.
Nothin' personnel kid.
>>316617905
Play project m he's improved
>>316626242
>Rosa main
>watch pro level player using her
>they NEVER use her down smash ever
>I rely on that shit all the fucking time for kills and damage
It hurts knowing I'm super casual. Feels fucking bad man
>>316616798
Float jumps could use more height.
>>316627210
I don't watch tournaments. Down smash is life when I play Rosalina. Up air also.
>>316621216
>they could have just made it an axe and we could have had Hector
>When youre a koopaling and you completley miss with the hammer after Up-B'ing.
I mean, I looked back at my replay and it clearly shows I hit you. You didnt dodge or anything. Why does it have to be picle perfect with this?
>>316627476
Up air is used a lot in tourneys, just not down smash for some reason
>>316627609
*Pixel*. Shit.
>>316619147
quit making excuses, hax
>>316615887
My only complaint is that Ike doesn't have me in a chokehold right now.
>>316626242
But the air attacks can still be helpful
>>316617220
That doesn't seem all that likely what with how much consideration was put into Robin's moveset and Lucina's costumes.unless Sakurai is an Awakening-fag, which explains everything. So hard.
>>316616798
>nothing autocancels in a shorthop except for nair
>despite coming out on frame 9, is for practical purposes much slower because the initial hitbox is behind him
I've never tried facing away from people, maybe that works
>>316625236
Yep... this is pretty much it. Well that and it's really fucking easy to accidentally backslash when you're trying to switch to jump while recovering.
but that's a REALLY nitpicky nitpick.
>>316627731
My only complaint is that Samus doesn't have me in a chokehold with them thighs.
>>316627892
Fair Autocancels, but the window is tight.
Reverse nair really only works if they're above you, but it's a pretty good anti air.
>>316627286
As retarded as it is, zard isn't meant to be an airborne character. Shit tier air mobility and aerials. I wouldn't mind it as much if his ground game didn't have huge holes in it.
>shorten range
>>316628245
the tight window shouldn't be an issue;
you can fair on the first possible frame of a shorthop if you tap jump and press the c-stick immediately
>>316628363
poor little white marth
>>316628245
Just checked it out, your right, Bair would be so much better for spacing though
>>316615887
My nitpicks would be more so problems with how the engine handles landing lag/timing of hitboxes going away than character issues alone.
I obviously can't complain too much, but his special moves are still fucking ass.
I just want faster lasers
>>316628363
She hit his sword
HIS SWORD
>>316628363
Each of Marth's attacks moves him closer to Sheik. We've been over this.
>>316628670
Oh no, we cant have that! It might give a character a reliable and aggressive approaching option! What would happen to babbys feelings if he realized he needs platforms and proper shield timing and that for glory sucks!?
>>316628245
I said float jump height, not distance.
Once zard is off stage he basically has to flare blitz to recover, and I shouldn't have to tell you what a crap shoot that is.
Extra jump height gives him more stalling options as he recovers.
Also sounds like you haven't heard about our lord and savior, Neutral Air. Would you like a pamphlet?
>>316628883
>wahhhh spacies aren't SSS+ tier anymore waaaaahhh
Are furries truly the most cancerous group in existence today?
>>316624720
>WAY too fucking light.
It sucks when other fighters take over 100% to be KO.
Mewtwo is done by 60%
>>316625276
>Miss because they were right in front of mewtwo rather than the hitbox he puts slightly in front of him
Mewtwo's Upsmash miss if their too short like Little Mac, or not close enough.
Up tilt can miss if their too close to you, and Mewtwo's grabs can fucking miss if their too close to you.
Scorereye was too busy making Roy OP, then to fix Mewtwo's hitboxes.
>>316626456
>the last second somehow and it misses.
If they have an armor blocking move, Disable fails
If their too short, it fails because it's not hitting the head.
Even if you do land Disable, Mewtwo doesn't really have move that can kill early, unless their already at 80%, even then, disable doesn't last long enough to land a fully charge smash attack.
I don't understand why Disable can be shielded too.
>>316624554
>Mewtwo is too perfect, it needs a major nerf.
I know you're joking, unless you discover a combo that gives Mewtwo an early kill.
Mewtwo is flaws, the character.
>>316628883
that is a chubby cheek :3
>>316629001
Neutral Air is a mediocre move that's only notable because the rest of his aerials are horrible.
>>316629105
>their
come on nigger.
>>316629040
>Must be a furry if he wants any character to have lagless projectiles
You're a faggot, no seriously. Falco has shit for moves because of his landing lag. Hes too slow to really get in unless you use SUPER PUNISHABLE forward B. Samus, Falco, and others should be able to use their fucking projectiles without having to worry about either being stuck in a god damn animation for 10 seconds or having to leave themselves vulnerable fullhopping to get a lagless projectile, which isn't going to hit anything anyway. His laser right now is USELESS except for sniping ppl off stage, and even then it has so much wind down time that they get back for free anyway because the ledges hold babbys hand in this game and most recoveries are stupidly OP in their priority.
I'm not even a fucking Falco user and I can see these problems you deflecting casual faggot. Having a move be useless for babbys feelings is pure idiocy.
DLC characters still not having customs. it'd be kinda nice to have, especially in tournaments that allow customs.
Speaking of which, has anyone made any custom moves allowed tier lists yet?
I know it'd at least send donkey kong, shulk, palutena up quite a bit.
>play perfectly for most of the stock
>misinput down as side b offstage
>i die and they're in the lead now
>>316629271
The move is a setup for Charizards normals, it is a safe, quick aerial approach with a hitbox most people don't know how to read. And he doesn't have his usual stupid long end lag on it.
You land it, it knocks them to the perfect range for his best normals afterwards.
>>316629409
>dare*
Is it right now?
>>316629530
I really hate this too. I only play her for fun but it all goes down the drain when that happens.
>>316629530
How is this a problem with Shiek at all? Fuck off, Shiek has nothing to complain about.
>>316626043
Suffering.
>>316629520
>I don't like it
>therefore it must be for babbies
>ppl (sic)
>why isn't my furfag husbando OP bawwww
Why won't these posters yiff in hell where they belong, /v/?
>>316629530
>misinput
>not an issue with potentially all characters
This is probably bait, but for real, Sheik becomes utter shit online when lag kicks in. Not a complaint about the character, but it means you can rarely expect good matches with/against her on FG.
>>316629686
salt
his recovery sucks, he falls too fast, and his up aerial and up tilt have horrendous end lag
other than that he's literally perfect
>>316617178
This
>>316629635
It's not safe, not even after patch 1.1.1. Even if you tipper, retreat backwards, and AC most characters can reliably dashgrab or DA you, unless you hit obscenely late into the move. It's also not quick. F9 doesn't mean anything when the hitbox takes forever to get anywhere useful. It's got good setup potential for sure, but no one good will let you get away with using it in neutral too often.
>>316629897
Really? I don't really feel like there's any input delay at all, even on FG. (except for when it's really obvious)
Admittedly, I went on displaylag.com and bought a new display with my Wii U, and an ethernet adapter.
He's not more lewd.
Mac:
-For Glory shitters made everyone think he's a scrub character
Zelda:
-Side B is useless
-Down B is garbage
-Every single move leaves her wide open
>15th slowest run speed
>11th slowest air speed
>that blaster endlag
Falcon
>Knee's sweetspot has 1 active frame
Marth
>sourspot the character
>dair animation reversed
>too unsafe on shield
>rolls, spotdodges, and perfect shielding destroys him
Falco
>auto cancel dair is a 1 frame move that only works on hit, not block or whiff.
>no great approaches
Kirby
>Too kawaii
Shulk
>can't see the future.
Roy
>loses to Roy
>side-B kills you before the enemy.
I miss bowserciding.
I used to enjoy this game so much because of bowser, his nerf made him literally unplayable
>charge attacks
>trying to recover with hurricane kick
>does a focus attack instead.
>>316615887
>Pikmin ai is garbage, they can be standing next to you and sometimes they don't even get sent out.
>Smash attacks can be blocked by links goddamn shield and foxes reflector
>uair changed for no damn reason
>his face looks like he has downs in the U version
>>316621735
Grest for catching people out of rolls though
>>316627210
D-smash is rookie-bait and works online because it's a move that's punishable, but requires precision to do so.
His Up Smash, one of his definite kill moves, has a kind of sour spot, where it won't kill the enemy at all.
I was about to say "he barely any kill moves" but that's basically what stops him from being complete bullshit. Plus he can gimp anyway.
>>316629040
>spacies aren't SSS+ tier anymore waaaaahhh
Get-a-Load_of_this_spy_cam.png
>>316632218
That is entirely on you, buddy
>>316627125
I always do thatwith Meta Knight
Everything.
I just want Melee Samus back, man ;_;
>>316629686
Sheik cant kill, even her gauranteed bread and butters have issues killing. If she falls behind a stock and a character gets rage, it's game over unless she wins at least 50 neutral exchanges and gets a lucky high % kill. Yeah sheik has a lotta advantages but losing a stock in a mostly 2 stock game with something as gay as rage existing....she gets fucked really easily. High tier characters always have a strong risk/reward except for Brawl in its entirety and Smash 64 with Pika/kirby.
>no forward tilts or nair in favor of the shitty lemons that don't do anything
>down tilt isn't good for anything
>dair has terrible startup lag and absolutely no range
>leaf shield a shit and so are the custom alts
>nothing in his moveset from megaman 9 or 10
>completely expressionless outside of final smash
>is a midget
>Marth 2.0
>fair and bair are the same and shit
>uair and dair are also the same and also shit and rng
>nair and jab and up special are made up and not from ac at all
>down smash is somewhat useless and doesn't launch
>>316634124
Lemons shut down the entire cast git gud
I use Dtilt all the time, it should be jump cancellable though.
Leaf Shield can do some interesting shit git gud.
>>316634650
>marth 0.5
>down-air is a suicide move
Nice one Sakurai this totally balances them
>>316634124
Skull Shield is god tier and dtilt has almost instant startup though, it's perfect for punishes
The lemons aren't very exciting but they will annoy the everloving fuck out of your enemy and interrupt all their moves.
>Cardio
>Arcfire slow as shit
>Can't hit short characters
>Thoron only does 16% and can only kill at stupidly high percentages
>up b can fail
>>316634724
>Move buries
>Complaining that it doesn't launch
She has basically nothing ranged aside from qcf kick.
>>316629897
nah, desu senpai some characters feel more likely than others to have misinputs: sheik, greninja, lil mac
>>316615887
>shit wavedash and losing nana screws me
>Wet noodle damage on aerials
>short range and lots of lag on already slow moves
>have to rely on a major fuck up on their part or landing a fart to get a kill at a decent %
>he's not PM Wario
>>316636930
>shit wavedash
what
>>316636930
fuck i was thinking of my other charcter link when i said shit wavedash
>>316615887he's not herethis is what phantom pain feels like
>>316615887
>Oos Up-b is highly punishable and no longer an excellent and reasonably safe option in the neutral like Brawl
>side-b can't grab people at point blank
>No anti-juggle option
>D-air is not like in Brawl
Still love him though.
>Ganondorf
Hurtbox is like half the stage
No UTilt
>Marth
Can only recover vertically
If you can't gimp or tipper someone before 80% they're probably going to live to 180%
>Zelda
UAir is way to weak for how slow and tiny the hitbox is
Slowest grab of all time
Din's Fire sucks, but also puts you in helpless state
Runs slow
Jab sucks
Literally has never heard of combos
Pikachu
Tiny grab box
All attacks do negligible damage
>>316634124
His down air is a fucking projectile meteor smash. The startup time is deserved, and it has more range than 90% of down airs. Down tilt is also very useful. I pretty much use it in lieu of having a proper ftilt.
>>316634945
pellets are good, but he doesn't need three moves dedicated to them. Jab and nair, sure, but his ftilt being walking pellets is just a novelty. There are very few situations in which the ability to walk slowly forward during a no-knockback jab is better than having a new move would be.
Leaf shield can't do anything interesting. Because your options when you put it on are so limited, and the startup on it is so huge, you're only making yourself more predictable, and anything you could do with leaf shield could be done better or more safely with other moves.
>>316632218
More like:
>try to land a back-air on an opponent or recovery
>accidentally do the command input side-b off stage
>>316635162
I hate that you can't cancel ZSS' dair with a down-B or up-B, although that would make her even more OP than she is.
That and she can't chain together Paralyzer shots and down-Smashes anymore.
