What makes her such a great female antagonist?
She's the only one smart enough to force wield a lightsaber unlike everyone else.
>>316464523
Normally you are supposed to hate a villain, but she makes you hate her to the core, in a way that echoes within your soul for eternity.
>>316464523
Reminder KOTOR2 is fanfiction if you agree with disneys "Only our crappy cartoons and the movies Lucas made count" decision
>>316464819
This. I never got why most Jedi didn't just wield 5 of the fuckers Grievous style and flurry the shit out of them with their mind. Like, it doesn't even need to be elegant, the moment you get 2 or 3 lightsabers into the mix even lightsaber wielding opponents are going to get fucked by basic movements that are unrestricted because no human is physically wielding them.
>>316465015
I thought TOR, and by extension Kotor 1/2 were cannon?
dude wound in the force lmao
>>316464894
I just hated her, she was one of the most annoying characters in vidya. I will never get the love for her, she was a horrible character and just got on my nerves. She didn't make me think or feel some special thing, she just came across as a flip floppy whiner who wants to force their ideals on everyone via force.
Now I get why /v/ loves her
>>316465109
Nothing is canon anymore except the movies, the cringey cartoons disney made and anything else they release. Literally everything since before Disney bought the IP is not canon now except the movies and the clone wars cartoons
>>316465109
I think it's for the best, by the time SWTOR came out the old republic canon was getting out of hand.
>Split Revan
>Still alive 300 years after KOTOR
>Sith Emperor shit that devalues Revan's character
>Oh hey, fans, look, HK-47, and he can beat a fully armed gropu of jedis.
Retarted, if you are to count them as canon, just take in account KOTOR and TSL.
>>316465320
>people are still upset Revan was treated like another Jedi/Sith and not as some Jesus of star wars
I will never get this. I never had a single issue with what they did with Revan in SWTOR. He was never some special snowflake God being that no one could touch. He was taken down once before, I have no reason to believe a team of like 30 of the best Jedi's in the galaxy could not somehow take down this guy.
>>316465246
Wrong.
EP. 1-9, The Clone Wars (Movie and Show), Rebels, Rebel One, Boba Fett/Han Solo Movie, Darth Bane's stuff, and all comics made after Disney's Acquisition are Canon.
You may consider Republic Commando semi-canon as Delta Squad appears in TCW.
>>316464523
beacause she is one of the few villains in a RPG with a morality metre who is still just in her actions and words, regardless of whether you are good or bad
>inb4 muh netural play through
>>316465438
So literally exactly what I said?
>>316465320
HK could do that in SWG as well. In fact, that was his entire purpose of being made, to kill Jedi. It says this in KotOR.
>>316464523
Her motives are sound, and it's always fun to see how utterly retarded and fragile is George's setting.
>>316464523
Because she actually has sensible and very human motives. She's been humiliated by both the Jedi and the Sith, and she wants to finally prove to them that she can put out a better Apprentice and wipe the slate clean so the Jedi of the future can rebuild and not be arrogant cuntbags.
>>316465476
No, because Disney didn't make TCW, Darth Bane, or Delta Squad.
>>316465404
It could have been done with subtlety, not just adding a Sheev copy.
The fact that he is a special snowflake capable of splitting into two beings, light sider and dark sider and living without ageing makes it even more Jesus-like.
The character of Revan was all about player self-insertion, but I still hoped to know how he died, hopefully getting killed when visiting another galaxy.
>>316465476
No, for some reason >>316465438 counted things that are not canon like the Darth Bane books (referenced =/= canon) and Republic Commando (ditto)
>>316464523
She sat around and spoke about things that are blatantly wrong in the universe and refused to shut the fuck up even when she wasnt in the party. Easily one of the worst characters I have ever encountered
She is one of the few characters in an RPG I've ever been able to feel like I'm having a conversation with. Where one of my pre-written responses to her speeches always matches my opinion.
it's like having a chilled out chat with someone with different political views than you, really refreshing. Which is probably why some of you guys can't stand her as you can't stand people who have different views from your own
>>316465626
>>316465404
>>316465320
you guys are talking about Revan getting treated badly?
lets talk about the Exile, who was just killed offscreen and was just a revenue fangirl and nothing more...
>>316464523
>Using the force to weild lightsabers
I used to imagine a cloaked Jedi with 6 other cloaked Jedis, all weilding lightsabers. But as it turns out it's just that one Jedi controlling all of them.
Are there any other canonical(?) creative uses of the force in lightsaber combat?
>>316465837
I felt sorry for her, having to bear such a shitty load on her shoulders while being surrounded by nihilistic edgy retards, except for Candy and the droids (excluding G0-T0)
>>316464523
Why the fuck couldnt you join her and both become sith man.
FANNERU
>>316464523
>antagonist
>>316466030
cause she wasn't a sith, weren't you paying attention?
>>316466284
But she was one in all but in name.
>Angsty against both orders because she can't into teaching properly
>I AM RIGHT I AM RIGHT AND I WILL DESTROY THE FORCE TO PROVE MY POINT!
>Manipulates everyone all the time
>Knows Sith techniques, magic and uses Sith holocrons
>Headmistress of a Sith Academy
Reminder that boba fett is now a dindu
>>316464523
>great female antagonist
>FEMALE antagonist>ANTAGONIST
Fuck off back to tumblr with you
>>316464523
She was in a videogame. She would be laughed out of the cinematic universe if she was part of the original, prequel or new trilogies.
>>316466434
>>Angsty against both orders because she can't into teaching properly
that's wrong
>>I AM RIGHT I AM RIGHT AND I WILL DESTROY THE FORCE TO PROVE MY POINT!
that's also wrong, she straight up says the moment she met you she knew she couldn't destroy the force
>>Manipulates everyone all the time
not inherently sith
>>Knows Sith techniques, magic and uses Sith holocrons
not inherently sith
>>Headmistress of a Sith Academy
and then decided it was shit and fucked off
>>316465438
which also makes karen traviss's rep comm novels canon.
>>316466434
but the sith actually have a code n shit
was she evil? sure, why not
was she a sith? no, dark jedi would probably be more accurate
>>316466030
>join her and both become sith man.
she wasn't sith, she was as gray as gray could get. her entire character was to show how retarded the binary nature of the force was in all the other star wars media.
>>316466537
How is what I said wrong? Please elaborate, if I'm wrong I must know how the actual things are.
>>316465109
I'm guessing that more Jedi didn't force weird their lightsabers is because it requires a very high amount of fine control to manipulate an small object with the force in a useful way. Sure they can disassemble and reassemble a lightsaber with the force, but that's more about memorizing what parts to move in what order.
With multiple lightsabers, that's multiple laser sticks that you're waving around with your mind and you need some serious multitasking skills to keep track of each one to make sure they don't collide with each other, make sure you don't skewer yourself, and make sure the saber is in position to strike where you want it to.
>>316466656
I'm not >>316466537 but holy fuck dude
>get slated on 4/5 of your statements
>b-but you didn't disprove my 1st one, ha!
>>316466975
But I actually want him to explain me why all of them are wrong because maybe I didn't understand the character and I want to learn.
>>316466648
binary nature in all lucas derp overseen media. eu had some really fufking neato gray stuff in it. heck tavira co opting the jenderai for one. the imperial knights. and of course eu had a lot of fuck alll force users stuff to from a galaxy sivk of jedi/sith bs. like in vong arc when people are all nope.jpg to jedi authority.
>>316466537
So basically, she was a Sith for a while, and eventually got fed up with black & white nature of things and went off on her own?
>>316466442
dindu's are african american. you retard. Temeura Morrison is a Kiwi. from the Maori. (a 'kiwi' is a New Zealander)
fuck. I know murrkans are retarded but do you have to be THIS stupid?
>all brown people everywhere are niggers because Murrka says so.
I bet you describe yourself as Caucasian on forms and paperwork too.
>>316467565
>>316467098
I'll have a go at it, though I don't claim to be some master of this game, this is just how I interpreted it:
>Angsty against both orders because she can't into teaching properly
more she didn't agree with what they taught.
for the Jedi, it was their rigid laws and inactiveness that led to the mandelorian war being a fucking mess.
for the sith, she just wasn't too keen on just having a massive murderboner, plus she saw inherent weakness in the sith Revan made, with Nihlous's hunger and sions pain fetishes, she saw that their weakness would be their destruction
>I AM RIGHT I AM RIGHT AND I WILL DESTROY THE FORCE TO PROVE MY POINT!
this part is where I'm not too sure what she was up to. from what I can gather, she had decided that all the destruction the force had wrought was not worth the power it gave people to help. So she set out to either destroy the force or find someone who could justify it's exsistance. I think she found that in the exile.
>Manipulates everyone all the time
like the original responder said, this is not limited to just the sith. heck the ability to force-persuade people is nicknamed "jedi mind trick"
>Knows Sith techniques, magic and uses Sith holocrons
having previously been a sith, and seeing no merit in restricting herself to just lightside abilities, as she has seen that bring the jedi order to stagnation, I think she would use whatever she could to see her goals through
>Headmistress of a Sith Academy
I'd honestly believe this was a ruse, to make her seem like the villain, and to appeal to people who wanted to be trained as sith, so she could wipe the all out using the exile, as she wanted to eradicate all jedi and sith
hope that clears some things up and sorry for any typos, I've only just woke up
>>316467687
your point?
>>316464819
If shes so smart why did she lose against the exile
>>316465720
this.
and her responses are actually thought provoking and balanced, like a normal conversation. not some forced feeling ''badass'' or funny line
>>316465320
Swotor has nothing to do with Kotor and Kotor2.
>>316464523
Why do people like Star Wars so much?
>>316464523
She would be a better character if she was younger. Dont need to go too far but like early 50 would be fine enough
>>316468272
rich universe, strict enough rules to keep it recognisable but lax enough to allow creative freedom.
Plus beamswords are always cool
>>316468319
I thought kreia was like 60?
>>316468508
She is? She looks like she is late 80s. Maybe its her abuse of the force which makes her look older.
>>316464523
has anyone thought of comparing kotor to jk? jarec seems a hetter dark jedi and a straighter antagonist. since kreia isn't really a good character to argue as the 'bad guy'. and desann is outright cooler. since he is sith. but not pants on head retarded sith like lucas' sheev. and prequel vader. he only preyenfs to kill jan to get kyle to inadvertently give up the valley location. whereas lucas sith wouldtorture hher to death for shits and giggles.
>>316464523
>using the force to float three lightsabers
>not using the force to float three blasters or other far range weaponry
What is this, 00?
>>316468686
kotor 2 was great for playing blaster jedi. you used two feats and had a mucj better ranged attack block (vader raising his hand in empire vs hans blaster) and didn't jeed a lightsabre to use it.
>>316468605
Wookiepedia says that the design docs for the game says she's 50, though caniconaly, her age is never specified
she never looked old enough to be 80 to me, I'd have guessed 60
>>316464523
She's shit Obsidian writing at it's finest.
>archivemoe is gone, can't/remember get my posts from months ago when I finished the game for the first time and needed to vent about how terrible she was
Fuck, why did they have to archive /r9k/?
>>316468932
>can't post personal blog about how he hates obsidian
go play FO4 faggot
>>316464523
The idea that the force is just manipulating both sides is an interesting idea, and being force neutral would be the best way for any humanoid force user to live.
Too much discipline creates stagnation, too much emotion creates chaos. Yin and yang and so on.
Why don't they just use the Force to turn each other's lightsabers off? Unless it's some "only this person's unique Force print can activate this chosen lightsaber because they are in sync with the sword" or some other handwave.
>And in the end as the darkness takes me i am nothing, now i know how you felt my friend
>>316469862
Unless i missed something, pretty sure force telekinesis is limited to pull, push, choke. No finesse to actually operate things
>>316469862
because erecting a force shield around themselves is the first thing any force wielder learns. so that no one else can just fuck them over with the force. that's why force sensitives learnt tp fight anyway. first with melee because lightsabres and blastets ey al didn't exist yet. and then they learned to make laser swords as an improvement over breakable weapons.
>>316469862
>>316470254
Also make troopers dance
>>316470254
>corran horn has a two stage he frequently manipulates with the force.
> ben manipulating the length of his blade with the force vs. vader in anh.
>exar kun using the force to switch on amd off either end of his sabre with the force on the fly as he fought.
>>316470254
That would count as pushing and pulling.
Hell that is actually what force jump is. It is just the force user pushing himself off the planet (think of the planet as an inmovable object)
Like you said, there isnt actually a move called Force Choke per say, it is really just force push on a single focused area (the throat). Video game mechanics are not the same as what is actually happening.
I think the answer more is that it is just awkward to focus that much but we have seen Jedi (Luke in particular) do things like fire blasters while he isnt actually holding them. (though the Courtship of Princess Leia was kind of a dumb book)
>>316464523
Gender is irrelevant for an antagonist
>>316465109
This guy >>316466912 is right. It requires an unbelievable amount of mastery and fineese, so most jedi can only do the boomerang trick.
>>316467970
It was part of her plan. Being betrayed by both sith and jedi wasn't
So is there a way to play this game that isn't a terrible experience (technically, I mean)?
>>316471213
yesmods
>>316468686
>blasters against people that can bounce your shot back
You didn't think this through, senpai.
>>316467713
She didn't want to destroy the Force. She explicitly said this herself. The Force is everything in the universe, without it there is no life and there would be no point in that.
Her being a Sith Lord was just part of her past. Once she realized how flawed being a raging retard was, she dumped it and moved on.
>>316471797
then what was up with her trying to blow up malachor V to make the tear is the force bigger?
also for that matter, does malachor V blow up at the end of kotor 2? Remote sets the explosives but gets stopped by G0-T0, however there is cut content where HK-47 stops G0-T0, so the planet does explode.
if it does explode, does it rip open the tear or what?
>>316472152
She wasn't trying to blow up Malachor V, she wants you to get over it. If you don't, she'll chuck herself into the core and kill you with her. If you are lightside, you will activate the mass shadow generator to finish off the sith academy. If you choose darkside, you become the new head of the sith there.
>>316472152The Sith Restoration mod is fully supported and canon now, senpai.
>what was up with her trying to blow up malachor V to make the tear is the force bigger
Because The Exile needs Darth Traya to be the last hurdle he must pass to face the world anew. She put all her chips in you and isn't gonna pull punches by pretending to be a threat.
Although I don't know what the canon ending for K2 was in TOR.
>>316472451
I thought the lightside ending had you go find revan and you left your jedi disciples to train any who are drawn to malachor so you could have an army of neutral jedi to fight the mega-sith who are chilling outside the galaxy or some shit?
>>316465404
>I never had a single issue with what they did with Revan in SWTOR
Are you serious? Revan was relegated as a "Force Recharger" for Emperor Vitiate's "Infinite Power" for 300 years .
>He was never some special snowflake God being that no one could touch
>He was taken down once before
By a Sith Imperial Dreadnought Cannon by Malak and survived, only to return as one of the strongest Jedi Knights to take down the Empire (that he forged) singlehandedly, defeating all the Sith Masters and Assassins that opposed him along his journey.
>I have no reason to believe a team of like 30 of the best Jedi's in the galaxy could not somehow take down this guy.
They wouldn't stand a chance.
>>316471545
Fine, slug-throwers, rocket-lawnchairs, funnels, anything that would scream anti-jeedai weponry.
>>316472721
There's several variants of the endings and they're not necessarily segregated.
>>316470846
Don't let the goobermeisters here you say that.
>>316464523
That shit looks dumb, anon.
>bring Kreia along all the time
>be a pragmatic neutral but manipulative dick all the time
>end game
>Kreia tells me I have failed her completely even though she tried her best
Shit hurt more than the time my mom told me I was her greatest disappointment for becoming a NEET. Had to pause playing for a day or two to get over it.
why were her saber's purple when that usually symbolises a very talented swordsman? Surely Yellow would have been more suitable as she was a councillor?
>>316473576
Maybe its from the past? Maybe in her younger days she was a great fighter and still kept her old lightsabers
>>316473576
>usually symbolises a very talented swordsman
Just because motherfucking Mace Windu wielded it doesn't mean it's a symbol for anything.
>mfw I played this game as a child, back before I fully understood the English language
>remember getting to her as the final boss and she fights with 3 floating swords
>Force User, fighting in melee combat, with-out actually going in melee range.
That shit blew my tiny mind
>>316473770
>Mace Dindu
>>316466515
But Kreia is a much better "villain" than Sheev or Vader just like the narrative of kotor 2 (even though it would obviously need fine tuning and adaptation) is better than le blow up the le-star
>>316466553
They aren't. Clone Wars cartoon series invalidated them. This is why Traviss flipped out and stopped writing for Star Wars
>>316474640
>Buy a giant franchise
>Declare ~80% of all works to be non-canon
For what purpose
>>316474302
My sides are on Alderaan
>>316474765
They didn't want to be bound to previous works. I don't agree with it, because they got rid of a lot of things I liked, but whatever.
They even had a council of people to decide what should stay canon, and what shouldn't - Kevin Smith was on it - and it was still all go. He apparently agreed with that decision.
Also...
>offer Denis Lawson a part in the movie
>he wants to be more then a glorified extra
>disney doesn't even know who he is
>gets told to fuck off, and they write him out completely
I really don't know whats worse - that this new movie\s is gonna be shit, or that there actually going to be good.
>>316475052
It's still a giant middle finger to pretty much your entire fanbase
>>316473576
>saber color meaning anything at all
I will always hate this. Its needless and asinine.
>>316474765
Eu was diseased, rotten to the core
we had to wipe the slate clean, burn it down!
>>316475052
They will handpick certain things they want to bring back.
>>316475202
>to pretty much your entire fanbase
Despite this, Disney is still going to make stupid amounts of money on opening day alone. This movie will likely become top grossing film of this year. And that will probably stand for quite a while
>>316475228
so you're cool with jedi with red sabers, nothing weird about that?
>>316465960
Dude, that sounds sick. You're duelling for your life with some shady robed figure, your allies battling on their own against identical foes. You finally see a slip in their guard and slash, only for your saber to burn through nothing but cloth. For your troubles, the floating saber you were fighting is already cleaving you in twain.The real jedi isn't even in the room
>>316475476
You know exactly what I'm talking about
>this guy is more of a fighter
>he gets blue color, because guardian
>this guy is more of a diplomat
>he gets green color, because consular
>this guy is an investigator
>he gets yellow color, because sentinel
...and other shit. It was a gimicky gameplay mechanic in KotOR and its retarded that it became some foundation of Jedi lore
>>316466912
>fine control
>of microscopic organisms
star wars is dead
>>316473562
Kreia has this "question everything, including me" mind set where you're supposed to limit yoursslf to to one way of thinking. She didn't want a clone.She's also full of shit and is just a salty old woman. Go full beacon of light.
>>316475624
that reminds me of a roleplaying story on /tg/ about some fuck party that's 7 jedi who are being light-side fags and a guy who flys the ship. he gets pissed at being mocked and looked down on so learns the force in secret sessions with the GM, becomes this badass sith with high enough deception none of them sense it and plans to kill all 7 of them in a big twist, but they all get killed by some jobber.
it ends with him killing the jobber in one hit then just fucking off to go do shit, having had his chance at revenge stolen, was good shit
>>316468272
it's the film version of the Beatles. The right people, the right place, the right time. Unlike the Beatles, Star Wars hasn't done much to be worthy of the fame aside from marketing.
>>316476520
but the Beatles only did like, 5 good songs
>>316473562
>Trying to impress a shady moral relativist
>In a setting where being bad can physically transform you into a hideous monstrosity
Obi Wan would have slapped her shit desu.
>>316464523
Becaue she wasnt written to be a great female antagonist
She was written as a great antagonist who just happened to be female.
>All these people who missed the point of her actions
She died for the Exile. As an Echani, she believed all important growth stemmed from conflict, and she saw the damage that Malachor had done. Not placing much value in her own life after her own failures, she cared only for the Exile, and places herself as a final obstacle on the Exile's path so that they could get over their space PTSD.
She had no magical weapon to destroy the Force, no more than she could destroy gravity. It was a lie to draw the Exile in.
>>316472890
this desu
>>316464523
Because her being female isn't part of her characterization, she's just a good villain
>>316475883
She also goes full Tsun in the final scene if you're light side.
>>316464523
Obsididrones
>>316478507
I think that's wrong. She was a mother figure throughout the entire game. How she treats you and her desires to change the Force through you are rooted in her maternal desire to protect you and heal the galaxy.
>>316464523
Avellone is love, Avellone is life.
But...
>antagonist
"From the moment you awoke, I have used you. I have used you so that you might become strong, stronger than I."
"You are greater than any I have ever trained. By killing me here - you have rewarded me more than you can possibly know."
Being a writer-self insert character who goes 'I am an observer' bullshit while still doing hypocritical Sith shit and also snoops on everyone while being a gigantic ass when inquired about her past. There's nothing that good about her. She just has no conviction or purpose. All she wants is just to watch the exile turn into something interesting and that's it. There's nothing good about Kreia herself.
Also force wielding lightsaber isn't the best of moves considering another force wielder of similar strength can snatch the lightsaber away
>>316465404
The point of Revan was not that he was some super powered Jesus, it's that he was a master of manipulation. He was also a character willing to make hard decisions in a setting that usually avoided such things.
So when they go back and say "that morally complex, and incredible act of manipulation that defined his character? That was just some ass pull side effects of mind control. Also his final plan which had an entire game of background build up, was just to go slug it out with someone he knew was stronger than himself and hope for the best.", it's kind of bullshit.
>>316478834
If she were a male you'd just call her an obi-wan figure. Her character would have largely worked as male or female
>>316464523
She's not really an antagonist at all, but moreso a mentor who wants you to surpass her. She's considered a great character because she has a unique philosophy within the Star Wars universe and interesting characterisation that aligns with it. Looking into her past reveals parallels with the exile that may not be obvious, she too was exiled from the order and is a veteran of the mandalorion wars, but she is above all a teacher. The greatness of her character truly reveals itself when she confronts the Jedi Masters, for years they have renounced her teachings as false, blamed her for revan's 'fall' and now they have the arrogance to spite her final student? Her greatest acheivement? The same applies to the Sith triumvirate, who also renounced her, she has you defeat each of them to prove her teachings correct. Above all her philosophising and manipulation and teaching she simply wants to prove that she is right, to herself and to all the others that cast her aside.
