Alright, I'm going to try starting a thread without retarded bait and see if it gets replies.
Do you think Tough Break did a good job or a bad one? What do you think still needs fixing, if anything?
What do you think competitive matchmaking will be like and are you looking forward to it?
And is anyone else getting framedrops to 0 ever since they made DX9 the standard?
>>321358050
I unironically don't know what that is.
They buffed the phlog and pyro in general,
that's all I need to say.
Shit update t.bh f.am
I did open a red quality minimal wear warhawk Rocket launcher on the first case from the update tho
Fairly mediocre
New skins actually look like they had some effort put into them, and actually make it fairly worthwhile to get a pass to get pretty much any of the Gentlemanne's collection items.
No new festives and weapons is a huge disappointment. You can make the argument that there are skins that can be festivized which are "new" but still kind of only really panders to people that have $500+ unusual strange factory new weapons.
The weapon rebalances are really odd, Soldier getting more HP regen buffs my favorite secondary to be even more into my playstyle of roaming while playing advantageous positions, while Sniper getting the same treatment is a bit odd.
Phlog isn't necessarily overpowered, it was just a part of an overtweak when they removed damage falloff from flamers AND gave it +10% more damage. I do think it could do with removing the uber while taunting though.
Degreaser is completely fucked now and probably is still bugged. Axtinguisher is sort of in a good position in my opinion, it doesn't instant kill outside of a heavy anymore but it's still going to hurt.
The new maps aren't really anything special desu.
>>321358321
It's a content and balance update to the video game Team Fortress Two for personal computer use, a game made by the Valve Corporation.
It was released a few days ago and includes major changes to the structure of the game.
>>321358756
>while Sniper getting the same treatment is a bit odd.
Especially when Cozy Camper is already his best weapon option in 6s, and matchmaking, with no class limits, is likely going to imitate the 6v6 format a little bit.
It should have like 3HP/sec rather than 4HP/sec.
Agree on phlog. I feel the only thing it needs to be balanced is maybe inability to be Ubercharged while you have the crits.
Phlog isn't actually that bad, it's what Pyro should actually be when you see one charging at you- a legitimate threat
>Axtinguisher is sort of in a good position in my opinion
Nah it's shit now
The damage decrease means its crits only do 131 damage when they used to be 195, which isn't even enough to kill a Medic, let alone a Heavy. On top of that, it has slower swing speed and it takes 1.125s to pull it out and hit someone with it.
It's more efficient now to just keep spraying your Flamethrower rather than bothering with Axtinguishing someone.
>nerfed engie of all classes
>nerfed the one good thing pyro had, making him irredeemably shit
>Medic buffs, which are actually nice
>skins look a whole lot better this time
mediocre update overall
>>321359293
I felt they're trying to make it hard coded to be paired with the Degreaser pretty much but they kind of screwed that up as well, like two different people were working on the balance changes and didn't mention it to each other.
>>321358359
>instead of having stupid damage resistance while using mmph, pyro is just straight up invincible
i mean I'm fine with it but why
>>321359557
You're a fucking retard Cunt. Medic is the weakest class and only for healing he doesn't need buffs at all
>>321360168
Because ur a fuckwit dumbass goon pong Jed
>>321360371
stop shitposting pls this is the designated sensible thread
>>321360438
I don't give a fuck, phlogistinator needed a buff because it makes asshurt scout mains mad and it was literally underpowered
>>321360693
>makes asshurt scout mains mad and it was literally underpowered
I love that part about it so much, I wish Valve would actually go back and realize that Scout has too much power and mobility for the HP he has, and that they need to have 100 even.
>>321360693
Except it doesn't because you can't airblast with it so you can't hold them in one place
>>321360934
nah he just needs, like, 10 less mid-range damage
>>321361580
Those changes are pretty decent, but I think Scattergun damage either needs a huge rework or Scout has 100hp, because I'm fine with a Scout getting the damage he does when he's up close, but the fucking ridiculous damage he puts out at even short-mid range is way too much, it needs to act more like a wider spread shotgun.
The first contract I buy and I already got my money back, I like how they use the "bonus" part of the contract to make baddies better, which is great.
I don't really care about the changes, I can easily adapt, oh, and the 20Hp for airblasting is a HUGE buff for the pyro I don't understand why people are bitching about him being nerfed.
>>321361580
>hold r to make your disguise pretend to reload
that is already a thing and has been for the entire history of TF2
>>321362818
>oh, and the 20Hp for airblasting is a HUGE buff for the pyro I don't understand why people are bitching about him being nerfed.
it pretty much cancels out in any competitive scenario because the only thing you'll be consistently airblasting is other Pyros' damage, and this discourages using the flare gun because you get punished for setting people on fire, for every 6-12 afterburn damage you do, you're going to be feeding 20HP to the enemy pyro
it really should return ammo instead of HP, and the Pyro get another mechanic or weapon instead
>>321362963
No, see, it can only be done when you fire the revolver, THEN go into disguise, to pull it off again you have to undisguise and redisguise
this would make it possible without going through that rigmarole, sorry if that wasn't clear
>>321363052
Yeah, or just add a counter that substracts damage taken from the health received. It would actually encourage people getting close enough for Soldiers to explode them.
>>321361580
Why would you buff the sun on a stic??
>>321360249
what is battle medic?
Oh right i'm talking to 10 year olds.
>>321361580
Why even try and save these shitty unlocks? They were dumb to begin with.
And make your own image.
>>321365773
>Why even try and save these shitty unlocks? They were dumb to begin with
I fixed your image. It worked on the ridiculous presumption that Valve is going to remove nearly every unlock from the game.
Valve does not and never has deleted in-game content after releasing it. "Stock only" is not going to happen, whereas weapon balances just did.
Similarly you'll get laughed out of the ballpark suggesting that Spy can move at 107% speed. I've tried bringing it up even before I saw your image; nobody goes for it.
degreaser flare pyro was one of few things I really enjoyed and they've just killed it
fuck this shit
>>321358050
>Ping is four bars instead of an actual number
>Enemies are slideshowing in front of me with full 'bars'
>Kill him and he drops to two yellow bars for a second
I want actual ping numbers back. "Less than 200" is not perfect ping
>>321366813
>he doesn't know
Check the advanced settings.
>>321360168
How to counter the phlog:
Demo:
spam stickies while he is stationary and blow him up when he moves.
Heavy:
Just track him with your minigun.
Scout:
Kite.
Medic:
Do what you always do when you're alone, run.
Sniper:
Your fault when he is so close to you.
Spy:
You are dead anywas, don't blame the phlog here
Pyro:
Kite. While backpedaling you have longer reach with your flamethrower or just simply gun him down with your shotgun:
Engineer:
Shotgun/Pistol kite. Where is your sentry?
Why is phlog so op again?
>>321366931
When it gets Ubercharged and the Medic has a 100% movespeed full-crits heal target who can't be airblasted.
>>321365773
>Pyro
>+25 Max Health
Ftfy
>>321364785
Because it's drastically underpowered and underused?
Since its crits do less damage than a Scattergun shot, the only time you would want to use it is when you need to reload both your primary and secondary, AND there's a Pyro setting people on fire for you.
A mild buff like this makes it more viable as a damage weapon.
>>321366501
> It worked on the ridiculous presumption that Valve is going to remove nearly every unlock from the game.
I'm talking about the ideal scenario, likewise it's just as ridiculous to say they will come up with good unique stats for every shitty unlock in the game instead of half assing like they've done for the last 8 years.
>I've tried bringing it up even before I saw your image; nobody goes for it.
Why? Spy not being able to catch to anyone without cutting corners is one of the biggest problems with the class.
>>321358050
>>321366887
THANK YOU
>>321367573
A fast Spy would be OP. The Big Earner's pretty good for chainstabs
>>321367889
>Spy
>OP
good joke lad
>>321367573
An ideal scenario is that they make all the varied content in the game which we've already downloaded onto our computers viable, rather than not trying and deleting half of it instead, making TF2 a less interesting game to play.
Your idea falls short both in the realism and idealism departments.
>Why? Spy not being able to catch to anyone without cutting corners is one of the biggest problems with the class
That's what I thought too, but literally nobody ever takes it seriously. "BUH BUH BUH THAT WOULD LET HIM STAB PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!!"
>>321368003
A Spy is kept in check by how quickly he is cut down by his counter-class, the Pyro. If a Spy can outrun a Pyro, and has a tool to remove flame (Dead Ringer, Spycicle) he can escape, grab a pick-up or two, and re-enter the fray. If a Sniper Jarates a Spy, what good does it do if the Spy simply runs off? His default move speed needs to match tiers.
>>321368283
>rather than not trying and deleting half of it instead, making TF2 a less interesting game to play.
You say this as if TF2 already isn't suffering from this problem. All these unlocks and yet all the good players run the same fucking shit, for how many unlocks there are only a tiny fraction of a fraction of them are worth using. Do you really think anyone would be crying over weapons like brass beast, the classic, diamondback, or the backscatter being removed from the game? They might as well not exist, they don't add ANYTHING of value to the game they're junk.
>>321368402
Having 125 HP means you would get compared to the other 125 HP classes then, and when your only benefit compared to a Scout/Sniper is invisibility, an extremely unreliable instant kill mechanic, and a disguise ability that nobody is fooled for more than a second for outside of sentries and potato heavies, I would say Spy is in need of some buffs.
Doesn't help that the community keeps bitching about facestabs when they're pretty much unavoidable yet they still kept reducing backstab radius.
>>321368402
You're forgetting that in the above image, spy does not have pyro counter unlocks. No dead ringer, no icicle. Also you're seriously over exaggerating 7% speed boost. Current DR gives spy SCOUT speed when he's cloaked. 7% is nothing in comparison.
>>321368608
Don't talk shit about the Diamondback, son. Not since the buff.
>Payload on defense
>Sap enemy's telporter at their spawn
>Two-shot the Pyro that comes to investigate
>Stab a guy
>Dead Ringer away
>Find a Razorback Sinper on his own
>POP POP
It rewards a good Spy for doing their job, and I've escaped at least one overhealed Heavy and several Pyros when I had no chance otherwise.
I will agree that certain loadouts get overused, especially Soldiers who run Black Box/Conch and hardly help their teammates. Buff Banner's much better.
>>321368608
The game is too bloated with useless weapons anyways. As you said, it wouldn't hurt when they would remove them and limit every slot with 2 or 3 solid sidegrades.
I have ~2000 hours and can't remember when I've used the 3rd degree.
>>321369026
Meh, Diamondback is pretty much the step-down Ambassador. Pretty much all the same negatives but with a FJ gimmick with a slightly faster firing speed instead of headshots.
>>321369026
Or you could use amby and have those crits all the time and doesn't punish players for having dumb teammates.
>>321358359
>they buffed Pyro
>>321360168
>invincible Phlog chart
Thank you so much for saving me from reinstalling the game, anons. Pyro needs to ironically die in a fire.
>>321368608
>they don't add ANYTHING of value to the game
But I like unscoped Classic headshots and Diamondback crit sprees. Brass Beast is also ridiculously strong and tanky.
Backscatter is trash, true.
If a weapon is boring or crap, you just buff it in ways that makes it more interesting.
Rather than deleting it and actually going backwards from the current situation of TF2, where it's already quite an old game and everyone has seen almost everything it has to offer.
>for how many unlocks there are only a tiny fraction of a fraction of them are worth using
Well for example, you removed the Dead Ringer and Cloak and Dagger from the Spy outright, even though they're almost equally used alongside stock [give or take 10% usage] and pretty much sidegrades. http://tf2stats.net/weapons/?sort=equipped
Furthermore some niggers even paid real money for TF2 weapons. Obviously a bad idea, but they'd raise hell if they suddenly got baleeted.
If you want to remove all the other unlock crap and have a fresh slate, a more realistic suggestion is for TF3 to be balanced that way, not TF2, because no weapons are never going to get deleted from this game.inb4
>valve can't make 3
meem
>>321369260
Diamondback is superior because the crit can land on a much larger target. Instead of trying to strafe heads, I can aim for center mass. Better yet, If I have a few extra crits I can hold m1 down in emergency situations. Because I don't need to aim for heads in dire circumstances against aware opponents, its proven far more reliable.
>>321369638
But you lose the huge upside of crits on demand/fresh respawn, Diamondback has good situations where it would be more desirable but to get to those you have to have GOTTEN crits in the first place.
All the melees would be picked more often if Atomizer, Basher, Disciplinary Action, Escape Plan, Powerjack, GRU, FOS, and Ubersaw got nerfed.
Demo, Spy, Sniper and Engineer have balanced melee loadouts and the other classes can too.
>>321369806
If I die without getting a single backstab or destruction (for the one crit I need to two-shot most classes), I obviously wasn't doing my job right in the first place. I don't want to RELY on the gun; it just needs to be there when I need it.
I'm not the type of Spy who headshots people before they hit the front lines and forces them to retreat, which is where I would see the Amby having a true edge. It's a good harassment tool, but my preference is elsewhere.
Reading the patch notes, holy shit. Pyro. Holy shit. They actually buffed a class that needed buffing!
>>321369610
>But I like unscoped Classic headshots
You could just play huntsman instead without crippling yourself
>Diamondback crit sprees
A worse ambassador
>Brass Beast is also ridiculously strong and tanky.
Yes that's why it's never ever used in comp, because it's so good.
>If a weapon is boring or crap, you just buff it in ways that makes it more interesting.
Buffing a weapon that was dumb to begin with doesn't add anything. Phlog for instance, easily the dumbest weapon in the game and now it's been buffed, it's still dumb.
>even though they're almost equally used alongside stock [give or take 10% usage] and pretty much sidegrades
I have other reasons for removing them. Primarily that C&D allows spies to spawn camp forever and DR because it goes against everything a spy is supposed to do. Why be sneaky and carefully get into position when you can just throw yourself at the enemy team, get a huge speed buff, and not die?
>>321358050
I think it did a good job, based solely on that they buffed the vaccinator.
>>321370123
>Pyro
>needing buffs
Glad I never reinstalled after this shit.
>>321370249
He's a horrible class, gets fucked in combat by all other combat classes, has no way to deal with sentries or snipers at range.
>>321370249
Found the f2p
>>321370109
But you don't have to rely on the Ambassador at all, getting headshots from behind work just as well, also it works wonders for turtled in engies by sapping their sentry and just headshot bodyshotting them.
I just feel ambassador is more flexible without putting so much reliance on getting backstabs/saps first, which I think the former is a pretty big issue when trying to learn Spy is realizing that your class isn't JUST about your knife.
>>321370208
>C&D
Is annoying, but not OP. You get 6 seconds, and it only regenerates with time. You move very slowly. If a C&D Spy makes it to your spawn, there was either a massive failure to detect him, or he has the L'Etranger, in which case he's harmless once spotted and can be cut down with impunity.
>DR
>Implying you can't disguise as a friendly Heavy/Medic/Pyro, fake death, and sneak behind enemy lines without any of them realzing a Spy exists
Don't let the laziness of the majority excuse the true intent of the tool
I'm waiting for the Overwatch update
>>321370990
>gets fucked by all other combat classes
You must think that because you're a W+M1 shitter.
>>321367684
no more hugs scout
>>321370208
Cuntsman isn't hitscans
Ambassador has a 1.25s delay between headshots
>Yes that's why it's never ever used in comp, because it's so good
Either way it's fine for pubs
>Phlog for instance, easily the dumbest weapon in the game and now it's been buffed, it's still dumb.
Because they didn't buff [or rework] it in a way that made it interesting; they just gave it flat out more damage and turned the damage resistance up to 100%
>I have other reasons for removing them. Primarily that C&D allows spies to spawn camp forever and DR because it goes against everything a spy is supposed to do
C&D lets players cross large areas of ground or stake out and actually SPY on the enemy team passively, which goes well with its theme; spawncamping with it is an issue only on shitty maps with one spawn exit like Dustbowl or Goldrush. DR allows Spy to get through spammy chokepoint areas where it wouldn't be able to survive otherwise.
>>321371012
Sorry to disappoint.
>>321369479
Pyro is only briefly ubered while he taunts. If a pyro is a threat to you, you legitimately need to get good. Pyro is far too easy to kill compared to literally every other class in the game.
>>321371321
YOU OWE ME, KNUCKLEHEAD
>>321371165
Its a fact that every other class in the game does more damage than a Pyro at the same range, but have more range and mobility options.
I love the Pyro, but pretty much the only time one should dominate is if they're playing against scrubs who are too stupid to run the fuck away from the melee class.
>>321371012
I agree with everything you say about the Ambassador, but in my experience if you can headshot a modern engie, you must have noclipped into a corner. They're either heavily turtled-up, or always moving. If you sap their sentry, the recent nerf to re-activation time (and the Jag) could help the Ambassador shine. I don't myself to realibly headshot anyone who's aware of my presence. I can't learn enough about their movement habits in the three seconds before one of us dies.
The first Diamondback crit is hard to get, but I'd rather that be the hardest part of my life than trying to backpedal and headshot a pursuing Pyro twice.
>>321371357
>>321371474
>this "Pyro is hard and requires skill" meme
I hate falseflagging Pyro mains who are just trying to fish for another buff to their shitty newbie class.
>>321371469
>the engie doesn't fix the air conditioning in 2fort
>entire team wonders how he could be so cruelfort
>>321371625
pyro isn't much harder than any other class, but that doesn't mean it isn't weak
>>321371474
I'm not, trust me. I've played for a while, both pubbing and lobbies. I've tried all sorts of pyro play. He needs buffs.
>>321371625
It doesn't require skill, it requires your opponents to be fucking morons. Pyros don't have any of the mobility options, health or range that other classes do. If you're dieing to it a lot, it means you suck more than the person playing the Pyro.
>>321371825
He has plenty of other shit other classes don't though. Pre-nerf Axtinguisher and degreaser combo was first signs of a shitter pretending to be good. After that it was just W+M1 and the occasional puff and sting. Airblast is also a big help against Soldiers and Demos. And don't get me started on the levels of paranoia they bring, running around in circles spychecking the whole team.
Pyro does not deserve any buffs.
>>321372061
And all of that shit depends on you getting close outside of reflecting back missles and pills. And even that was pretty ammo intensive.
Again, if you're dieing to Pyros, its cause you're bad. Nothing more. You can easily out range Pyros and out run them more times than not.
Please, tell me more how a class that needs to literally get in your face without any gimmicks is so hard to counter when you can shoot them from a fucking mile away.
>>321372061
There's a reason Pyro is almost never seen in Comp while even fucking HEAVY or Engie is sometimes seen as a desperation/stalling defense on last point in 6s.
It's because he's pretty much purely there to counter bad players, similar to Spy, but also has Airblast which is just about the only high skill thing Pyro has. If you could Airblast jump at the cost of like 50 ammo it'd but Pyro in a good place where he has mobility at the cost of potentially gimping himself weapon wise, much like Soldier and Demo do the same health wise.
oh fuck
They jacked up the price of pink and lime paint from $1.99 to $4.99.
>>321372336
You're acting like it is difficult to do this or there is a lot of ground to cover when most map designs work in favor of the Pyro. The most popular ones especially.
>>321371323
>C&D lets players cross large areas of ground or stake out and actually SPY on the enemy team passively
Actually stock is better for crossing large areas because you can recharge it while using it.
Spawncamping with it can be done on any map, I don't see why you mentioned dustbowl or goldrush when it's harder to avoid spam next to spawn on those maps.
>DR allows Spy to get through spammy chokepoint areas where it wouldn't be able to survive otherwise.
This is a map problem, not a spy problem. Spies should never be forced to walk through a hallway with 10 people fighting in it.
>>321372508
You're acting like every map is nothing but corners where the Pyro knows exactly where you are and somehow matrix dodges every fucking shot.
Seriously, the only time Pyros win is against shitty players. At BEST a Pyro can go 1:1 sometimes against good players, but more often than not they'll die.
>>321370225
just used my vacc for the first time in months
seems like its somewhat useful now
particularly since theres usually at least 2 phlogs on every team
Good update. The most annoying parts of TF2 were dealt with appropriately aside from Phlog. Holy shit, the amount of Phlog Pyros in pubs right now is insane.
Engineer was fucked really hard for no good reason, there still isn't much incentive to use a watch other than the Dead Ringer in pubs, weapons like DDS and Crit-a-Cola are stilll in need of balancing, but overall most things are good.
good update if you main a real class because they weren't affected, bad update if you're a demoknight or pyro main, extremely unfair update for engineers
>>321372814
Dustbowl, which is arguably and coincidentally the Dust 2 of TF2 and the most popular, is perfect for Pyros.
>>321373003
>bad update if you're a pyro main
why
i got extra damage and heal-on-extinguish
>>321373212
>heal on extinguish
>on top of all the other shit
The game is dead to me.
>>321373167
Even good maps for Pyros still don't make Pyro that dangerous. At best you're unlucky, at worst you just suck.
>>321373003
>After removing a Sapper from a sentry, there is now a 0.5s delay before the sentry is active again
Okay, this one probably should get toned down
>Sentries brought into a respawn room no longer detonate outside of Mann vs. Machine
Who brings a sentry into their spawn, anyhow? Bugfix?
>The Jag: Added damage penalty against buildings. Now takes 3 hits to destroy a Sapper.
Jag was overused anyhow. I would know, because its all I ever used after they shafted minis. Rewards teamwork with Pyro
>Rescue Ranger: Healing per bolt reduced from 75 to 60
K.
What makes this so unfair for engineers? Just stop using the Jag
>>321373315
You keep telling yourself that. The only class that takes less effort than yours is Heavy. And even that is questionable.
>>321365773
>nerfing the scottish resistance
pls no, sticky spamming and covering an entire room is the only fun thing about playing demoman anymore.
>>321373463
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say now. The Pyro has always, and will always suck. Even in maps when its beneficial to a Pyro, other classes will ALSO benefit from it just as much if not more.
Pyros are fucking terrible, and only people who suck think otherwise. Seriously, play the Pyro for any decent amount of time against good players.
>>321373352
Sapper buff and RR nerf are huge. Keep in mind that the Wrangler was ALREADY nerfed in Gun Mettle so that the sigafoo save was no longer possible.
Now there really isn't anything the Engie can do to hold his own against even the slightest of pushes.
>Stop using the Jag
It was objectively the best wrench, sure, but it does have that repair rate downside and combined with the sapper nerf all a Spy has to do is sneeze on your Sentry and it's gone. It's comparable to the Gunboats - objectively the best secondary on Soldier, but has significant downsides in that you get no Shotgun.
>>321373212
Because the Degreaser was THE best weapon for Pyro, no matter what Stock-loving hipsters think. You were literally gimping yourself if you were using the stock flamethrower. Also Pyro mains as a whole are obnoxious as fuck and a lot of them cried about the update because you can't remove a person's movement keys anymore and how it was all b4nny's fault.
>>321358050
it's a shit, i almost don't play any map of that update, buffed a lot of weapons and nerfed the only ones that were worth using without being a w+m1 pyro
>>321374395
>Because the Degreaser was THE best weapon for Pyro
Not really. Ever since the beginning, I've been always covering everything in fucking flames with my beloved Backburner. God, it feels so satisfying to sneak around behind the enemy team, and then watching them just lose their shit in a blaze of fire and blood.
Also, nobody who actually plays Pyro at a non-complete-noobtard level complained about the airblast change. You should probably stop taking Reddit's shitty opinions as if they represented the whole community. Bet you think the Phlog is OP too.
>>321372652
>Actually stock is better for crossing large areas because you can recharge it while using it.
In areas that are larger where Metal pickups are scarce, CD lets you stay invisible where stock can't. It also gives you the ability to follow the combo for longer and thus actually do your job [picks] when the time is right.
Because a map with two separate spawns can be used to avoid Spies if you feel you're getting spawncamped.
>This is a map problem, not a spy problem. Spies should never be forced to walk through a hallway with 10 people fighting in it.
It's a problem which plagues every map because every map has chokepoints as the main access somewhere; Badlands is generally accepted to be one of the best balanced TF2 maps and yet you have to walk through multiple narrow chokes on the last point, and stand on a narrow objective point too
Or Point B Gravel Pit as well has two access points for Spy, both of which are spammable
>>321373643
It's not a nerf, read it again.
The detonation radius for the crosshair is smaller so you can be more precise and not waste all 14 stickies.
The wall effect also means demoman doesn't have to stare at them the whole time and can go do other things. Whenever an enemy passes by they light up so you know when to detonate.
