>lavishly endows newcomers and especially third-party characters with all sorts of options, gimmicks, abilities, homages, love and care
>can't be assed to make Ganondorf, Toon Link, and Falco not clones
>intentionally makes Marth and Meta Knight shit in retaliation for them being great in the competitive scene
>makes FD versions of all stages instead of BF versions or giving us a hazard toggle
I'm trying to understand you, Sakurai. I really am. But your brain is a vortex of fuck.
Bayonetta looks like she can't kill for shit though. The only OP shit I saw was the combo she did on Doc Mario where she carried him all the way to the top of the screen on Omega Palutena's Temple. It looks like she's gonna be able to KO at 0% if she's close enough to the top Blast Zone. It also looks like you could DI outta her stuff.
>>321133189
From the looks of it, her kill moves are her Wicked Weaves, which you use her Witch Time to set up. Like Sakurai said, she's pretty much like she is in her games, so you build up the damage with big combos, activate Witch Time, then move in for the kill.
>>321132889
>can't be assed to make Ganondorf, Toon Link, and Falco not clones
What you people can't seem to understand is that these characters, like many others from Smash, has never before appeared in a fighting game, and had very few examples of what they might fight like in a fighting game.
Then they did, and even though since then there have been games in their series that have a different impression of how they could play, those clone move sets are how people see that character as fighting, and the idea of them playing drastically differently is completely alien.
I'd assume he doesn't change the clones because he feels like it's rude to the people who adjusted to how they play.
>>321132889
You don't have to pay for Ganondorf, Toon Link and Falco
>>321133546
Savage
>>321133463
Bullshit. All of them are clones because of being made late in development to pad out the roster. After it was decided they would return in later games they should have been de-cloned and given their own moves, especially Ganondorf. Toon Link can also use shit from Wind Waker like the Leaf, Skull Hammer, Hurricane Spin, and Wind Jar. Falco could at least have had his Final Smash changed to an Arwing bombardment run.
>>321133546
>You don't have to pay for Ganondorf, Toon Link and Falco
You had to pay for Lucas and Roy.
BOOOOOOM
>>321132889
Like >>321133463 said, it's more about that it;s done and over with now. They're clones, and people dislike change. How many assblasted complainers on /v/ would there be if Sakurai changed Ganondorf from a slow but powerful brawler into a caster/spam-heavy character. Plenty, and autistic fury causes major backlash, especially in the video game community.
The only times they'e seemingly touched up characters is redo final smashes (like make relevant Pokemon mega evolve). Very little changes between games, probably because Sakurai hates making them and prefers copy-pasting shit from the previous iteration. Some things do change, but they've never fully reworked a character.
>>321132889
>Ganondorf, Toon Link, and Falco not clones
If they were changed people would get mad too
Sakurai probably doesnt want to change them because a lot of people are used to them being that way for over 10 years.
At least thats what I want to think. I dont defend clones but can understand them
>>321132889
>>can't be assed to make Ganondorf, Toon Link, and Falco not clones
The only people who still call these characters "clones" are casual scrubs who have no idea how the game actually works.
They all have completely different frame data, hit boxes, knockback, damage, and a bunch of other technical shit I won't go into detail about. Ganondorf's moves are visually similar to Falcon's and nothing more. Notice how Ganondorf sucks complete ass while Captain Falcon does not?
>>321134358
>How many assblasted complainers on /v/ would there be if Sakurai changed Ganondorf from a slow but powerful brawler into a caster/spam-heavy character.
One or two. The overwhelming consensus is that Ganondorf should play like a Zelda character, not be a big and heavy and slow version of a futuristic racecar driver with a 100% made-up moveset. He doesn't even need a sword, he could use the trident/lance Ganon uses and dark magic along with his magic ball and shockwave punch from OoT.
>>321132889
>can't be assed to make Ganondorf, Toon Link, and Falco not clones
The Legend of Zelda is a meme franchise with a meme fanbase that can only ever seem to agree on 3 characters in the series being playable. Now they're asking for Linkle of all things. You fags deserve to get shat on and I hope Sakurai makes Ganonc
>>321134815
>this post
Got a cringe outta me, that's for sure
>>321134596
Toon Link uses Boomerang, Bow, Spin Attack, and Bombs. Nearly all of his attack animations are the same as Link's. The only difference is some of his moves ar multi-hit whereas Link's aren't and vice versa. That's still a clone. He could have easily been changed so he uses the Leaf for Up B, the Skull Hammer for Neutral or Side B, the Wind Jar for Side or Neutral B, and the Hurricane Spin for Down B.
For someone who says he wants to pay tribute to and be as close to a character's origins as possible, Sakurai sure doesn't like following it unless he's forced to or it's a character/frachise of his or he likes.
>>321134815
>inferior to Sigurd in every way
Except in staying alive
>>321133463
>and the idea of them playing drastically differently is completely alien.
maybe for a retard.
Unless you're Captain Falcon, there is no excuse at this point.
>>321133463
>Ganondorf literally stared what was at the time considered literally the greatest game ever made
>has a huge variety in moves in that game alone from magic volleyball, ground pound that creates shockwaves, a reflecting cape, leviation
>even his "phantom" form has a trident you could incorporate
>beyond that you have four other games as Ganon to draw inspiration from including teleportation, fire bats that can be used offensively and defensively, fireballs and general magic attacks
>Ganondorf can't work in a fighting game from what I have to use, but Sheik, who literally does nothing in OoT but drop a deku nut to disappear, is absolutely able to have a 100% original moveset and I can still make a ridiculously faithful Ice Climber moveset too!
Fuck off, anon. Ganondorf was born out of laziness and now we're stuck with it. I wish Ganondorf was never in Melee. Sakurai shit the bed hard on him and why Miyamoto never got on his ass over it despite Nintendo treading Zelda as their #2 franchise is beyond me.
>>321132889
>second two points have literally nothing to do with the first point
>still getting mad about paid DLC
>>321135065
>Toon Link uses Boomerang, Bow, Spin Attack, and Bombs. Nearly all of his attack animations are the same as Link's
AGAIN
>They all have completely different frame data, hit boxes, knockback, damage, and a bunch of other technical shit I won't go into detail aboutThey all have completely different frame data, hit boxes, knockback, damage, and a bunch of other technical shit I won't go into detail about
All of the above applies to every single one of Toon Link's moves in relation to Link's moves. They have similar animations, but are not identical moves. If you don't understand any of this, if you're completely ignorant to how the game actually works, then you simply have no room to talk about "clones" in Smash.
>>321134624
>The overwhelming consensus is that Ganondorf should play like a Zelda character, not be a big and heavy and slow version of a futuristic racecar driver with a 100% made-up moveset
That's bullshit and you know it. The people who bitch about Ganon being a clone are very much a vocal minority.
>>321132889
Sakurai only balanced Melee by himself. According to some old quotes and old info I can't bother to look up, Sakurai said the following
>For Brawl, there was a team of about 6 people in charge of balance, he was not involved
>For Smash 4, there was a team of 12
I have no idea who these people are or how involved Sakurai himself is in the balancing process, but I'm pretty sure he has fuckall to do with how good characters end up being.
>>321135595
It's still the same fucking moves, no matter how much you try to justify Sakurai's laziness. Is there any real reason you want them to be inferior mirrors of other characters this badly?
>>321133189
reminder that palutenas upsmash used to reach the ceiling
shit is guaranteed to change
>>321135843
>It's still the same fucking moves
No, it isn't; that's the entire point. It's only a visual similarity where in reality the moves could not be more different.
>>321135814
Look through all discussions of him since Melee was released. The amount of people wanting him to be different is far greater than the amount of people happy that he's a shittier Captain Falcon. I'll nver understand why people like you are so desperate to keep the King of Evil, a warlock who wields tridents and twin swords and powerful dark magic, as Captain Falcon's juiced-up grandpa-running bottom-tier shitfest.
>>321135203
>Ganondorf was born out of laziness and now we're stuck with it.
Not so much "laziness" as much as they wanted to throw in a few extra clone characters by the end of Melee's development.
It's not like Sakurai planned Ganondorf to be there from the beginning, picked his nose and said "yeah, we'll just make him a clone of falcon ahuh". It's why I'm really confused when people say shit like "Oh, if they wanted to put Dark Pit in, why didn't they give him a bunch of Uprising weapons?" completely ignoring the whole point of why clones are added to begin with.
>>321136143
>[citation needed]
>[citation needed]
>[citation needed]
>[citation needed]
>>321135843
>Literally everything about the move beyond it's appearance is different
>I-I-It's the same move!
Again, I maintain that the only people who complain about "clones" are scrubs who don't know how the game actually works.
No one who plays at a high level complains about clones because these clones play completely differently.
>>321136030
>Link and Toon Link pluck out bombs
>throw bombs
>bombs explode
>but Toon Link's bombs hit multiple times and have no kockback, that means he's a totally unique character!
>his Spin Attack hits multiple times too and has shit knockback, that also makes him totally different!
>and Boomerang can angle better, such uniqueness!
>plus his Arrows are weaker and move slower, how much more different can you possibly get?!
>>321132889
when you're selling DLC characters you gotta make them so over the top it gives people reason to want to buy them, not that Smash fans wouldn't buy anything
>>321136417
>ignorant as fuck casual trying to backpedal
Here's your (You)
>>321136242
And the moment they decided to bring him back as a regular roster member, they should have ditched the clone moveset and made something for him that's actually from the fucking frachise he's from.
>>321136521
Nice meme
Post your suicide so I can fap pls
of course the dlc are better, he has a lot more time to do them compared to the main game where he has to meet a strict deadline
iirc he wanted 5 years originally to develop smash 4 because it's essentially 2 games
>>321136640
>implying (You)r not buttdevastated
>>321136521
What "backpedaling" am I doing? You said their slightly different properties makes them amazingly unique and different. I pointed out those amazing uniue differences, and they might was well be Custom Move variants.
Again, and maybe this time you can actually answer me instead of dodging the question, why are you so desperate to keep clones as clones? What is wrong with making them actual characters with things from their own games?
>>321133546
>Smash 4 is a free game
LOOOOOOL
>>321136750
He couldn't finish ONE game despite two big delays, do you really think he could have done more with TWO games in the same amount of time?
>>321132889
That's why it's best to just play Melee. Not because of elitism, but because Sakurai obviously fucked up and made massive mistakes that happened to actually improve the game-play of Melee. The newer Smash Brothers games, which are closer to his vision, are a hialrious clusterfuck of weird, stupid, half-assed, and bad decisions.
>>321137046
Except that the subject of this thread started with Melee, showing that Melee was also a hialrious clusterfuck of weird, stupid, half-assed, and bad decisions.
Oops.
>>321136812
I never said any of that, I wasn't even the person you were replying to.
>why are you so desperate to keep clones as clones?
I'm not, and neither is Sakurai, which is why fewer and fewer "true clones" are added in each game. The melee "clones" aren't really clones anymore, so you're just getting upset about nothing.
>What is wrong with making them actual characters with things from their own games?
Are you talking about Ganondorf specifically here? In which case I'd say it's because each incarnation of "Ganondorf" is very different from each other; Smash's incarnation of him is built around being a physical powerhouse. That's it. Quit being an autist.
>>321136242
Yeah, nah. Thats bullshit. Ganondorf was the last person added to Melee and only because his body shape was similar to Falcon's. You know what would have made sense? Blood Falcon or Black Shadow. Both were in F-Zero X and BF, who literally is a falcon clone, would make significantly more sense.
>>321136573
>>321136573
Sakurai has never fully gutted a character's moveset from a previous game and most likely never will. It's not just the clone characters, either. Pit's moveset changed a lot from Brawl to SSB4, yeah, but he basically has the same gist as he did in Brawl, fighting primarily with the Palutena Bow. Likewise, Ganondorf did receive a lot of changes animation wise and even attack wise from Melee to Smash 4, even though ultimately he's still a variation of Falcon.
It seems that, when a character is added to Smash, they're given some sort of identity, and Sakurai wants to preserve that identity for the rest of their days in Smash. And, for better or worse, Ganondorf's identity in Smash is being based on Falcon.
>>321137498
>You know what would have made sense? Blood Falcon or Black Shadow. Both were in F-Zero X and BF, who literally is a falcon clone, would make significantly more sense.
Except literally no one wants those characters in Smash. Not even you.
>>321137046
>Not because of elitism
Uh huh, sure.
>>321136417
Here's Toon Link's frame data:
>http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Toon%20Link
Here's Link's frame data:
>http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Link
>>321137046
his vision was smash 64
after that he wanted to make every entry different
and he was asked to cater to the target demographic of the various consoles, so there were changes made because of that too
>>321132889
Meta Knight is top tier though.
>>321137670
There's a lot of characters I don't want in Smash that are.
But its a small price to pay for Ganondorf actually reflecting his long history in Zelda games.
>>321135071
And blurring the gender lines by making it difficult to distinguish between him and Lucina. Get fucked, squid-now-kid-now autist.
>>321137478
>which is why fewer and fewer "true clones" are added in each game
Dark Pit, Lucina, Dr. Mario
>Smash's incarnation of him is built around being a physical powerhouse
No, Smash Ganondorf is Captain Falcon. Would you be defending Bowser if Sakurai made him a clone of Donkey Kong, or ROB if he was a clone of Samus?
>>321138071
pig ganon would be pretty cool
after all, there are two links, two zeldas, why not two ganons?
>>321138071
>There's a lot of characters I don't want in Smash that are.
Then quit being a faggot
>But its a small price to pay for Ganondorf actually reflecting his long history in Zelda games.
Wanting Classic Pig Ganon in Smash is not the same as wanting a new Ganondorf. Usually people either ask for WW or a more faithful OoT Dorf.
>>321132889
>Meta Knight shit
I don't even play him and reading that makes me feel you actually use Event Hubs as an "official" tier list.
>>321138256
>Dark Pit, Lucina, Dr. Mario
Still fewer than Brawl; roster padding is nothing to get upset over.
>Would you be defending Bowser if Sakurai made him a clone of Donkey Kong, or ROB if he was a clone of Samus?
Those characters aren't even the same body type. Ganondorf only ever became playable because he shares a basic body structure with C. Falcon.
>>321138256
>No, Smash Ganondorf is Captain Falcon
So why does Ganondorf suck and Captain Falcon not?
They're the same, right?
>>321137764
They tweaked a few numbers and left the moves and animations the same. Oh boy. Know what would have been better? Giving Toon Link some Wind Waker items and attacks so he represents Wind Waker instead of being Twilight Princess Link's Mini-me.
>>321138570
>Bow, Bombs, Boomerang
>not in Wind Waker
Are you an actual retard?
>>321138554
Because slow heavy characters always suck in Smash unless they have infinite chan-grabs. And changing hsi Side B to a chokehold doesn't make him a totally different and unique character.
What's wrong with him using a trident like Phantom Ganon does in OoT? What's wrong with giving him his energy ball, ground punch shockwave, reflective cape, and other Zelda attacks? What is so wrong about wanting a Zelda character to BE A ZELDA CHARACTER?
>>321138570
>Get BTFO
>backpedal
kek
I agree some WW items would have been cool, but Toon Link and Link don't play identically. You simply cannot argue with the numbers, the moves are not exactly the same, the two characters do not play exactly the same.
>>321132889
>intentionally makes Marth and Meta Knight shit in retaliation for them being great in the competitive scene
So you wanted them to be OP again? There was a reason why Marth was adjusted in Brawl (you're right that Sakurai had no reason to nerf him in 4, though) and why was MK nerfed to hell in 4, before being buffed from the patches.
>>321138873
>What is so wrong about wanting a Zelda character to BE A ZELDA CHARACTER?
Because you want one Ganondorf to be multiple Ganondorfs. They're not all the same character.
>>321137553
See, Ganon can still be based on Falcon without being a total clone. The problem is that he has 0 iconic moves from any of his boss fights.
His only moves from the TPP boss fight are his forward smash and his forward tilt- which were still fucking copied from Falcon, anyways.
Speaking of Falcon, where the fuck did his side smash from Smash 64 go? That was fucking boss.
Falco is a lot different now than he was in Brawl and Melee though
>>321136242
That was 14 years ago, and Ganondorf is STILL a Captain Falcon clone.
Hell, it's been 14 years and Zelda hasn't had an actual new character added since Melee. Adult Link, a younger clone of Link, Zelda, Sheik, and Ganondorf as a heavy Captain Falcon clone.
The bias towards seniority is fucking dumb. Sheik's in one fucking game as a very minor character and gets in 3 Smash Bros games, but for some reason none of Midna, Zant, or Ghirahim are allowed in.
>>321132889
Ganon main here. I don't WANT them to change him. I want my 7' mexican fist wizard and fuck anyone that doesn't.
>>321138643
>Skull Hammer
>Deku Leaf
>Wind Jar
Are you pretending to be retarded? I said "represent Wind Waker". Those things are in every Zelda game ever made and there's already a Link using them in Smash, which makes Toon Link completely pointless if he's not going to showcade anything specifically from WW.
>>321139170
Several characters on the roster are multiple versions of that character in one, Link included. Some of them represent entire time periods, genres, or companies. That's not a reason to not change Ganondorf from an F-Zero character to a Zelda character.
>>321137296
>Except that the subject of this thread started with Melee, showing that Melee was also a hialrious clusterfuck of weird, stupid, half-assed, and bad decisions.
Yeah exactly. The point is that in the case of Melee they magically made the game better as opposed to worse,.
>>321139564
>which makes Toon Link completely pointless if he's not going to showcade anything specifically from WW.
And not Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks as well? I think you completely missed the point of Toon Link.
>That's not a reason to not change Ganondorf from an F-Zero character to a Zelda character.
I don't see the connection here. He shares a model with an unrelated character with a similar body shape. It's not that hard to understand.
>>321139170
What the fuck kind of autistic complaint is that? Ganondorf can only represent one version of Ganondorf?
Ganondorf doesn't even represent Ganondorf from TP well.
Little Mac uses a super meter from Super Punch-Out, which is arguable if he even fucking appeared in or not, yet nobody gave a shit about that.
People who play Smash Bros competitively and want the game to be purely competitively-based are legitimately embarrassing. It's a party fanservice game, guys.
>>321140094
Nobody actually plays this game for the party modes, though.
Does anybody even like Smash Tour or still play Coin Battle?
>>321140029
>Ganondorf can only represent one version of Ganondorf?
Would you really expect WW Ganondorf playing the same way as TP Ganondorf?
>>321132889
I mean, to be fair. Falco may be trash but he's not a total clone like tLink or Ganondorf.
But it is kinda funny how much clones or clone-lites of sorts tend to be trash alternatives. w/e it's better than nothing.
>>321140094
>This moveset sucks = This game should only be competitive
People who are too mentally retarded to know how to read are even more embarrassing.
I don't even understand what the point of this Ganondorf argument is anymore. I swear the two of you have physically devolved from this.
>>321139803
If you're going to have two of the same character, do something that makes them distinct in their gameplay. No, tweaking some damage numbers isn't making them distinct. Have then use weapons and moves from their specific games to show that they are representing their own things.
Stop pretending you're dumb.
>Captain Falcon has a completely made-up moveset
>Sakurai decides to make Ganondorf at the last moment, uses Falcon with slight changes, absolutely nothing from the Zelda series about Ganondorf
>two games later, Ganondorf is still inferior Captain Falcon 2.0 instead of a Zelda character with his own franchise-inspired moves
I don't see how difficult THAT is to understand.
>>321140469
"Argument" would imply there was something worth arguing about.
>>321140532
>No, tweaking some damage numbers isn't making them distinct.
Thanks for showing you know nothing about Smash, senpai.
>>321140532
>Ganondorf is still inferior Captain Falcon 2.0
Says you, nerd.
>>321140310
This is Smash Ganondorf, so he can use whatever Ganondorf moves he likes. Zelda was never playable in the Zelda games until Hyrule Warriors, but she has the three spells the Goddesses give Link in OoT despite being TP Zelda in Brawl and 4 and in 4 she summons Toon Zelda's Phantom Armor.
>>321140406
I wasn't referring to OP.
Not getting context is also pretty embarrassing. But a lot more forgivable. You're okay, mate.
>>321140202
>Nobody actually plays this game for the party modes, though.
For your information, I have played shit out of the Special Smash, including the Coin mode and the 300% mode.
>>321140778
I'm simply saying he can't be both a One-Sword user and a Two-Sword user at the same time; who's to say which would be more "accurate"?
Not to mention
>le more swordsman meme
>>321138075
>autist
I'm not the one posting some shitty fan comic while getting mad about video games son
>>321141034
He wouldn't need a sword at all. This guy's been mentioned several times in this thread already. Have Ganondorf use the trident as his main melee attack and one of his B moves. The other B mvoes and some A moves can be the various magical attacks form the series, like the energy ball, ground punch shockwave, reflective cape, flame bats, and his levitation ability.
I agree with the Ganondorf having his own moveset and having a new character (probably Black Shadow) replace it, but I'll deal with this dorf for now since I still have fun playing him at the very least.
What I don't understand is how these characters, with so many iterations and slight design changes, don't have a single alternate costume- they're all Twilight Princess designs, Sheik, and Toon Link.
Why not have four colors for TP Ganondorf and four for OoT Ganondorf? Same with Zelda and OoT/Skyward Sword/Tetra/etc. They have palette swaps at best.
Hyrule Warriors also spoiled me with these things, but still.
Also, I completely agree with the weird decisions in this game. Marth and other characters completely nerfed to nothing, the stage thing, 3DS remembering alt costumes but not Wii U, having a 3DS version in general, the menu design... They're such strange decisions and yet no attempt to fix them.
>>321140532
>No, tweaking some damage numbers isn't making them distinct
Yes it fucking does, you colossal moron. This has been explained to you several times, look at the fucking frame data. Oh, you don't understand what frame data is and why it, among many, many other things, means their moves are different? Exactly, you have no fucking clue what you're on about.
>>321141376
No thank you, I'd prefer a single, consistent interpretation of Ganondorf in Smash as opposed to a total clusterfuck of B specials.
>>321141671
>it's a clusterfuck because i don't like it
nice
epic
i like it
+10
>>321141671
So you're fine with all the other characters who play mix-and-mach with different versions of themselves, things that they never used, or are from games they were never in, but Ganondorf doing the same thing Link and Zelda do is a titanic no-no?
>>321141671
Oh, right, like Ganondorf in Smash is consistent with anything he's ever appeared in, and isn't just a totally garbage clone of Captain Falcon
Here's a idea most people have
>Make a new moveset for Ganondorf
>Give the old moveset to Black Shadow
>>321142102
>Wanting Black Shadow
Literally why.
>>321142102
ANYBODY else from F-Zero would be great
I suppose we'd need a new F-Zero in the works for that, though...
>>321142564
He just fucking told you. Do you see the words "Black Shadow" and immediately have a conniption fit or something and make that knee-jerk response?
>>321142081
>what is the Triforce of Power
>what is Dark magic
>>321142706
You might as well just scrap old Ganondorf if that was the plan. No one actually wants Black Shadow; they want an excuse to change Ganondorf's moveset.
What if the Mii fighters were replaced with Primids in For Fun/For Glory? That way you could use three extra characters online and dress them up.
>>321141671
Go to bed, Sakurai. Your logic is shit.
>>321142721
>what is the Triforce of Power
Does absolutely nothing in Smash, just like the other Triforce parts for Link and Zelda.
>what is Dark magic
As melee attack fluff, not as anything befitting a warlock.
>>321142838
And we also get a new F-Zero rep
>>321142945
>being this dense
>>321142838
>You might as well just scrap old Ganondorf if that was the plan
NO FUCKING SHIT, SHEROCK HOMES, THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED FOR ALMOST A DECADE AND A HALF, PAY ATTENTION.
Take Ganondorf's Captain Falcon clone moveset, put it on the main villain of F-Zero where it makes far mrore sense, and rework Ganondorf to have a zelda moveset. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE.
>>321142989
Why would we ever want a new F-Zero rep?
And why wouldn't it be Samurai Goroh, an character who could actually be unique instead of a second Captain Falcon clone?
Because you know they'll never declone Ganondorf.
>>321143165
>unironic caps lock
>didn't even read my post
Isn't it past your bedtime, anon?
>>321143167
>wating another swordsman
>>321143010
>"what about this thing that does nothing and some purple stuff on his punches and kicks?"
>they do nothing to change the fact he's a clone
>"lol u so dense"
The fuck are you even tyring to say.
>>321143393
That you're an idiot and you should remove yourself from the gene pool.
>>321143312
I read it, and there was no point responding to the second part, because "hurr i don't want him that means no one does" is more overused on /v/ than all the memes and buzzwords put together.
>>321143560
Because you can't discuss things intelligently and think that the Triforce pieces actually do anything in Smash Bros?
>>321143768
>because "hurr i don't want him that means no one does" is more overused on /v/ than all the memes and buzzwords put together.
Thanks for 100% confirming your illiteracy.
>and think that the Triforce pieces actually do anything in Smash Bros?
It's literally the entire basis of his moveset. Power = Hardest hitting character in the game
It's not that difficult to understand.
>>321142879
You know, Mii Fighters have no reason to be excluded from For Glory/For Gun when you can literally use them just fine in Tournament Mode. Same thing with custom moves as a whole.
All they simply had to do was make them toggable matchmaking options.
>>321143986
He isn't the hardest-hitting character. Bowser, DK, Dedede, even Charizard have stronger moves than he does. And where's the Triforce of Courage giving Link the ability to shrug off blows through sheer courage and detemination, or the Triforce of Wisdom making Zelda smart enough to fight msot effectively withou being hit?
>>321144581
I mean you could probably make an argument for giving Link super armor on everything but Zelda is already a zoner.
>>321143986
This is what you said.
>No one actually wants Black Shadow; they want an excuse to change Ganondorf's moveset.
I responded to both parts of that in separate posts. You not liking Black shadow doesn't mean everyone else hates him, and no shit they want Ganondorf's moveset changed so he'd be someone from Zelda and not a clone of a made-up moveset of a racecar driver. How fucking difficult was that for you to follow and understand?
>>321144581
I'm finding it hard to have a discussion with someone who's literally as dense as a rock. I'm sorry that Smash doesn't adhere to your perception of one character, try playing/making a mod instead of complaining about it on 4chan.
>>321144834
>being this delusional
No one would give a shit about Black Falcon if they weren't looking for a convenient excuse to make a change that will never happen, including you. Get some fucking reading comprehension.
>>321144735
She tries to be, but she's awful at it. Sakurai simply doesnt care for any Zelda character except Sheik.
>>321144917
I find it hard to understand why anyone would defend a Zelda character playing like an F-Zero character so damn badly. Why is it so horrible to you that Ganondorf use shit from the Zelda games? Because then he wouldn't be what you want him to be? If you don't want Ganondorf to be Ganondorf, then why do you care so much about him?
>>321144581
>And where's the Triforce of Courage giving Link the ability to shrug off blows through sheer courage and detemination
There's a little thing we like to call "game balance"
You see, it's alright for Mac to have super armor on his smash attacks because he needs something to counter balance the fact that he has virtually no air game or recovery to speak of. Link doesn't have those disadvantages so giving him super armor like that is complete overkill.
>ridley cant be in because he wont represent ridley
>ganondorf exists
Im not even a ridleyfag, but thats some bullshit right there
>>321145135
>Why is it so horrible to you that Ganondorf use shit from the Zelda games? Because then he wouldn't be what you want him to be? If you don't want Ganondorf to be Ganondorf, then why do you care so much about him?
>projecting this hard
It's called "being a realist". If Sakurai had any intention of changing his moveset, he'd have done so by now. The entire discussion is pointless.
>>321145315
So ywhat you're pissy about is people talking about things that you don't want to see be discussed. You can hide or ignore threads you don't like.
>>321145553
No, I'm simply trying to explain to you why Ganondorf exists in Smash in his current incarnation. If you don't like my opinions, you can likewise ignore them.
>>321145639
And we can discuss why Sakurai is an idiot and a hack because of his stupid decisions. Sorry that we're being so mean to your hero.
Man, I'm just really disappointed in how they're handling a lot about kerfuffle
I guess I've stopped following vidya a ton so I'm a "casual" now, but they've just made a lot of stupid decisions or at least ones that disappoint me since they seem like nintendo has been taking the worst shit from the rest of the industry after years of publicly going against it.
Namely DLC, especially for Smash, which is a game that already prints money so all the overpriced DLC characters added just for people to bash cloud and mario action figures together stings so much more. I guess asking them to make characters for free is a bit ridiculous, but at least don't shove it in our faces like we're retarded.
I don't know if that even made any sense, I'm just bummed the smash shit is over and none of the things people complained about are being addressed (boss switch for starters) despite us being in an age where updates like that are easy as shit to implementAnd yes, I am salty about all of the FE and KI characters being added when no one really cares about them
>>321145748
>still projecting
Reality >>> your opinons
>>321145847
You're getting old, anon.
>>321145893
So no one should be allowed to discuss is what you're saying, especially things that you personally deem annoying to you because you're incapable of ignoring it.
>>321145847
Nintendo has no fucking idea how to handle dlc well for some reason. MK8 was fucking godly, literally only 1/5th the price of the game for another 1/2 game full of content. And Splatoon also worked well, because all of it is fucking free. But everything else is shit in terms of pricing.
>>321146153
>still projecting
Do you even know how to stop projecting at this point? Can you take an unbiased view of my opinion without immediately jumping to false assumptions about my opinion?
>>321146308
You're the one who came in here and said "It's reality, stop talking about it!". We know its reality, and we can express our disappointment in it and talk about how Sakurai could have done a better job of it. What part of that are you incapable of understanding? When you go outside, do you go up to people talking about something that's happened and yell at them to shut up and stop talking about it because nothing they say can change it?
>>321145847
Nintendo made losses for 3 years straight, what did you think they were going to do? Plus Smash is made by Namco so they're not making 100% of the profit. The milking of Smash Bros has just begun and I think by Smash 5 comes out, you'll need amiibo to unlock characters.
>>321146623
You're not even trying to discuss Ganondorf in Smash now, are you? In which case either get back on topic or stop giving me (You)s.
>>321145847
>>321146274
>>321146667
If you really can't afford a few bucks for a one-time purchase, how do you still have internet and electricity?
>>321145989
Don't worry, I know I'm over reacting.
But don't even get me started on how shit the current gen is
>>321146274
Did I mention their store is also utter dogshit? Because it is. It was nearly impossible to see what all DLC was for sale without scrolling through every stupid Mii costume. Then again, I haven't seen a console based digital marketplace that wasn't shit.
>>321146667
I though animal crossing and other 3DS shit was printing money again? Though honestly I didn't care about amibos until they cranked up their own dlc plans. Now I see the terror it is about to unleash
>>321145847
That is the absolute cutest fucking seal I have ever seen holy fucking shit
>>321146762
So you admit you were only trolling.
>stop giving me (You)s.
Is this the newest meme craze? Is responding to other people in a discusion/debate now frowned upon?
>>321146793
You're right anon, its not overpriced for what you get, we're just poor
Thanks for enlightening us
>>321146996
How is accepting and enjoying Ganondorf in his current incarnation in Smash "trolling"? Oh let me guess, because your opinions are objective and definitely not autistic.
>>321137498
I want them, too. We could have had Blood or Black Shadow as a dessert option instead of Lucina and Dark Pit.
>>321147158
You're free to do that, just as we're free to NOT enjoy how he is and prefer he was a ZELDA character, not an F-ZERO character clone. I just can't understand why you think wanting a Zelda character to be a Zelda character is yet more overused and misused /v/ buzzwords.
>>321147391
>we're
Pretty sure I'm only replying to one person here, anon.
>>321146793
To play Smash Bros you need:
$200,000 for house
$1000 for couch
$1000 for TV
$100 for electricity
$50 for internet
$300 for Wii U
$60 for Smash 4
$50 for DLC
$20 for GC adapter
$30 for GC controller
>>321147584
actually, you only need the WiiU because of the gamepad
just hide out in a bus station with a power outlet and live the good life playing smash with your hobo buddies
>>321147546
Doesn't mean I'm the only one here who has my opinion, as you can see by reading the other posts. I'm also not trying to speak for the world, so don't even try that shit. People have been upset at Ganondorf not being decloned since Brawl.
>>321147584
>$1000 for a couch
>$1000 for a TV
>>321132889
AVAVAGO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lUbou1JCOE
>>321135814
Not when he debuted in Melee. People just said, "Oh, interesting! Bet he'll be even better next time!"
And then when Brawl rolled around, THEN people complained. Rightfully so, as that's plenty of time to not be a bunch of lazy shitters.
>>321138890
Yes, they do. If their specials are relatively the same, that's irrefutable.
Pit and Dark Pit are in the same boat. Flash numbers all you want, those minute differences mean NOTHING in the grand scheme of Nintendo's repertoire of interesting games and items that could and should be represented.
>>321140807
You responded to nobody, and your post didn't fit the general question of the thread. Nice try, but you're a fucking idiot, please never post again.
No one even had the idea of a "BF version" for all stages until he invented FD versions. I don't understand how this is a complain. Especially when no one complained about the lack of BF versions in previous games. I swear, people are really just nitpicking this game.
>>321146996
Are you familiar with the phrase, "Trolls Trolling Trolls Trolling Trolls"? Wasn't born for no reason.
That said, the industry is in too dire of straits for that, and yet, it's 2015 and this damned site STILL doesn't have age verification.
>>321132889
>Falco
>Clone
lol
>>321132889
Meta Knight is still good and Brawl MK should never be a thing ever ever again.
Brawl MK was more than "great" he was ridiculously imbalanced, you see even Brawl players being glad that MK isn't dumb as shit in Smash 4(the only people who miss him are the people who played him aka M2K).
Should this be labeled as remix?
>>321148903
>different weight
>different speed
>different power
>different hitboxes
>different knockback
>different up smash
>different neutral aerial
>different forward aerial
>different up aerial
>different back aerial
>different forward throw
>different back throw
>different dash attack
>can't wall jump
>play exactly the same
>>321149756
nigga did you not read his shit?
Smash isn't just about the fighting, its about representing and having call outs to things from games that we love. What a character uses is just as important as what the thing does.
>>321132889
The only character that is actually a clone is dark pit. There is nothing he has different from pit at all except a few visual differences. even my little sister wants to know why he wasn't just a costume
>>321132889
My guess is that the reason why they cant make drastic changes to Ganondorf and other clones is because they are simply in too deep. It'd be like taking a games main mechanic, and scrapping it for a different one altogether, and you wont even know if people will like it.
You can't just change the characters entire moveset, because then it would piss people off, especially those who main the clone. Now if you want to keep the clone moveset, you'd probably either have to make it a custom moveset or add another character to have it, like making the Black Shadow get Ganondorf's clone moveset, but we already know Sakurai doesnt like putting any more effort than he needs to, so its much easier to just leave Ganon as he is. Keep it consistent or something.Or maybe i dont know what im talking about, im not a game designer
>>321132889
I still don't understand why Zero Suit Samus, who is one of the most pointless asspull characters in the game, got an almost complete overhaul, and yet Ganondorf is still Fatshit Falcon. A new moveset for Ganondorf is maybe THE most requested thing since Melee, and definitely top 5, and Sakurai himself admits that he was just a last minute rushjob to begin with, but instead they elected to spend their time making up new bullshit for a character with a moveset that is almost 100% made-up bullshit in the first place.
I just don't understand it and you can't explain it to me.
>>321150043
Lucina's only difference from Marth is no tipper.
>Watch Mario throw out 17 unpunishable smashes in a row.
>Am completely fucked if I miss after 18 frames of startup
I miss my shoulder tackle.
>>321149756
Different guy here. I kind of like Ganondorf as he is now, I play him often, but he's a clone, man. This isn't some Ryu and Ken shojo shit where they are the same style in how moves link, it's Ryu and dark Ryu. A normie can look at Falcon's and Ganondorf's set at say they're very similar the same way they can with pit and dank pit. Internal statistics don't change the outside perspective. All we're asking for is something that establishes Ganondorf as having a bit more than just brawler, something he has almost never been in the games.
>>321150279
it's not that you are wrong at all. It's just upsetting that for the smash series in general, if you were shitty, you stayed shit.
Lookin' at you, Hyrule tier. (save for sheik)
>>321150407
people fap to zero suit and will buy the amiibo to hot glue
people that like ganondorf have deluded themselves into thinking that playing with a shitty clone makes them better
The people that want an actual ganondorf don't outweight eitherA good compromise is to make ganon a character
>>321150507
It's amazing how he can get something right, then go back and make it worse.
Like single player modes.
>>321150507
>Take out the only few remaining references to Wario Land and the most iconic move he has and replace it with a generic punch that is less visually distinct from his f-tilt for literally no discernible reason at all
BRAVO SAKURO
>>321139301
my one smash dream had Zant as some sort of proxy Darkstalkers Anakaris, with long as reach, wide floaty jumps and lots of blades and structures coming from the sky and ground
i dont even remember the Zant fight from TPP, and if Zant could do any of that shit
>>321150507
that reminds me
it feels like Smash 4 has two classes of characters:
>Unpunishable
or
>Too easy to punish
the way the top tier can just drown you in hitboxes without any sort of nuanced technical barrier has never been seen on this level in previous smashes
the "slow" characters have never been so fucking slow either. Polarizing all around, or maybe im just delusional?
>>321150894
thats basically his Warriors moveset
>>321150818
I see this in games a TON. With subjective stuff like story its understandable, but with features you can just straight up make a list and go down it and say whether it was good or not, and keep the good ones and try and fix the bad ones. It just boggles my mind how stupid devs can be some times
>>321151083
for casual players slower characters are more balanced, at least thats what my group saw
For anything more they're shit like they've been in every smash
>>321139301
This guy understands my pain.
Once they add Corrin FE will have MORE CHARACTERS THAN ZELDA.
>>321150578
Very valid point. Ganondorf is a fucking wizard. He can literally fly, fire bolts of magical energy, and has a propensity for summoning swords, and games where we DO see him as a swordsman, he fights with at least some technique.
The issue here is Nintendo of Japan keeps forgetting to pay attention to the American fans over anything ever. They forget we're their bread and butter demographic.
Being a Nintendo fan is a lot like having an alcoholic father at this point. He keeps getting drunk and beating you over the face with a copy of Pikmin 3 and coming home with some Nintendogs your family can't afford...but once in a while he gets coherent and you get a new Zelda just before he tells you the story about some fucking plumber and some turtles for the umpteenth time. Hell, sometimes his hot bounty hunter girlfriend visits...but at the end of the day he's still a raging drunk.
>these people getting so hung up on the word 'clone' that they miss the point entirely
>the frame data! look at the frame data, they play like completely different characters!
No shit they play differently, that's not the problem here. The problem is the fact that these characters have totally uninspired movesets that only remain in the game for the sake of tradition, favoritism, or sheer laziness.
The fact that we even have to argue that Ganondorf, a major recurring character from one of Nintendo's most popular and best selling franchises, deserves a moveset that's not a deviation of Captain Falcon, a character whose moveset derives next to nothing from his games in the first place, is completely ridiculous.
>>321138570
>>321138890
"toon link" has been in a bunch of shit beyond WW; they don't have to pull exclusively from there
but yeah, the deku leaf would be a nice addition to TL
Ganondorf will probably never get a complete overhaul, nor will any character, because it would be putting in the same effort it would take to create a newcomer into a veteran, but he could certainly use a makeover like Bowser did. Bowser's basic gameplay, style, and most of his moveset haven't changed, but I think everyone can agree that Bowser in Smash 4 is much truer to the character than the weird thing that was in Melee, because of his new animations and a few new moves. Ganondorf's Melee to Brawl transition was step in the right direction, but then he remained virtually the same from Brawl to 4. Some new animations (get rid of all the ones that are still obviously copied from Falcon) and some move tweaks (perhaps give the Warlock Punch the sword by default or maybe give it the option to toss an energy ball if the button is tapped instead of held) could be all he needs to satisfy both the "more accurate Ganondorf" camp and the "keep my main's playstyle the same" camp.
I hope Nintendo makes the next Smash game less of a Fire Emblem circle jerk and finally add a new Zelda character for once.
>>321151282
What a poet.
>>321151230
>>321151282
nintendo gives no shits about america
Zelda, Metroid, Wario Land, Advanced wars, ect are all more popular in america than in japan
Thats why they desperately try and make those franchises appeal to japan (SS was LITERALLY an anime high school, Metroid was similarly moeblob, Wario Land and Advanced wars get axed)
Japan wants anime little boys and flat girls so those are the characters that are added
>tfw Smash will never have a playable
Ghirahim
Volga
Midna
Wizzrobe
Wonder Red
Zant
Groose
Lana
CiaPostman
Tingle
or any other zelda character i missed
Being a zelda fan is suffering.
>>321151487
>nor will any character, because it would be putting in the same effort it would take to create a newcomer into a veteran
Zero suit samus
Luigi is much more different (by virtue of mario changing as well)
Pit
But I agree 100% with the bowser thing
>>321151568
Skull Kid is like meme status here, but id love to see him in this.
a lot of the fan favorites in Smash had kits that were largely built from scratch instead of hailing straight from source material (Marth, Captain Falcon, Fox, Shiek, ZSS), and they could totally craft something for him
would be cool of Tael innately accompanied him always in a fight, sort of like Rush & Mega Man in MvC
>>321132889
>Meta Knight
>shit
Maybe in comparison to his brawl self, but you're literally broken if you think he's garbage now.
>>321151910
Well he is in the new Hyrule Warriors so its pretty easy to find moves for him now.
God I just want ONE new zelda character. Is that so hard?
I really hope the next game is directed by someone else. A lot of people like to bandy about "Only Sakurai could direct Smash!" for some reason, but fuck it, I'll take my chances. Sakurai makes the most confusing fucking decisions.
>>321151746
reminds me
LoL and DOTA are developed by American companies but their primary audience is largely China + Korea, or i guess Russia for the latter, but they don't exclusively appeal to Americans with American-based holiday events
infact, they scrapped the latter in favor of like Chinese lunar revel shit
even when the Wii was lighting the world on fire, iwata kept talking about how the thing was tailor made for Japanese apartments. All of the Mario Maker exclusive shit is for Japan properties, squid girl crossover in splatoon, etc.
>>321151785
None of those should be in
ESPECIALLY none of the donut steels
Really the ony other character worth making playable is Ganon and maybe Vaati
though I did toss around the idea of Ghirahim being a link clone with his geometric things in place of link's items
>>321151895
Ah, but the thing is those characters haven't received a "complete overhaul." They've had moves tweaked or changed here and there between games, but someone who mained them in previous games could pick them up and play them more or less the same while adjusting to a few changes. Some people want Falcondorf scrapped completely and redone from scratch with all new moves, which would essentially be a new character.
>>321151785
>We will never get Ghirahim
Thank fuck. I was worried for a while there before they showed his assist in the pic of the day.
Just as well because by the time Smash 4 came out nobody even fucking remembered Skyward Sword.
Nintendo acts like FE:A sold like 50 million copies and makes up of 40% of all their fans.
Just because it sold more than they expected doesn't mean they should give the series this royal treatment and shaft other franchises that haven't been doing as well as that one game.
the power creep is real
kits are becoming more grand and nuanced
my wet dream is for the next smash to really turn the screws on polishing and updating veterans with new tools. some just work and there's no need to reinvent the wheel (ie, CFalcon, Fox, Sheik, Ike, etc.), but a lot could use a tune up
if nothing else, give people new taunts + unique victory themes
>>321152556
Thats why I think Impa or Zant would have been good choices that would not feel dated as someone like Pichu.
>>321152353
Now see you're severely underestimating the power ofthe postman
>>321152209
Why isn't it just half and half?
One newcomer appeals to japan more, the other to the West
So they can get their FE/KI/Pokemon characters and we can get our Zelda/Metroid/F-Zero characters
At first I thought this is what they were doing with Mac but then it didn't pan out
Speaking of, whats the difference in popularity of Bayonetta between east in west? I know she's pretty popular here because of the drought of good action games
>>321151083
>Unpunishable
Sheik is really the only character that I would describe this way. I'm a Bowser main but over time I've learned to fight against pretty much any character. Except Sheik.
Sheik is unique because I've played against a few good Sheiks and a good Sheik is literally just, a fucking ghost. Playing against a good Sheik is different from playing against any other character, because you have to watch them like a hawk in order to spot out miniscule windows of opportunity for you to attack. Sheik has practically no lag on anything. It doesn't matter how "weak" she is or whatever, if you can't fucking hit her, ever.
I'm still holding out hope for Sheik to get a nice hard beating from the nerf bat.
>>321152565
fire emblem has a good amount of characters, stop complaining.
>marth as the FE rep since melee
>ike returning from brawl, there's no reason to cut him
>robin as a unique rep from the most popular and newest FE at the time
>lucina, who isn't really a character but a costume that got her own slot because sakurai wanted her to be different. she didn't take anyone's place or anything.
>roy, returning from melee as a highly requested veteran that got a better, more unique moveset
>corrin as something sakurai and the japs wanted, as well as advertisement for the new game
>Smash 4 has no story mode because cutscenes were leaked online
>Smash 5 has no new characters because roster was leaked online
Sakurai logic
https://youtu.be/szggXY8k99I?t=4m53s
>tfw fans once again out do Sakurai and make a god-tier original moveset for Ganondorf
>>321153584
>as well as advertisement for the new game
you say that like its a plus to the consumer
>>321153672
Man I've really got to mod my wii or whatever. It must be great to not have to put up with Sakurai's bullshit.
>>321153672
my god its pretty fucking perfect for a fan mod
>>321153743
Corrin's moveset is a plus
>>321153996
Except it'll be unbalanced as fuck. Stupid fanboy faggots think they know how to design a game better than Nintendo does.
>>321133493
Luigi
>>321154159
It's been designed to be balanced for competitive play
>>321154272
They actually changed Mario more than they changed Luigi.
>>321154159
My best friend did acid with Tyler a couple months ago
>>321154159
If it sucks then its a shame, but its free and optional so if its shit just undownload it until its better
Still way more care put into it than the entirety of ganondorf in smashes
>>321153121
They might be considered half and half already.
Most of Japan don't really separate the western world as it is unless it comes to technicalities, so Bayo winning in Europe is good enough for the rest of the western world, in their eyes. I'm not saying Bayo isn't popular in America (I wouldn't know anyway, since I'm Ausfag, although she's popular enough here), but it's a clear attitude/perspective problem that some Jap companies, mainly Nintendo, seem to have.
>>321153672
Hm, i'd say that looks a little gimmicky and shit, but seeing as how gimmicky the newcomers are on smash 4, this looks pretty rad.
>>321139187
>The problem is that he has 0 iconic moves from any of his boss fights.
He has the sparta kick. That's one.
>Add Black Shadow
>Give him Dorf's old moveset
>Give Dorf a new moveset
Problem solved.
>>321154689
The warlock punch is kinda like the dive punch he uses in OoT i guess.
>>321154858
Anon, that would require effort
>>321132889
So does she get naked during her weave attacks or not?
>>321154159
But the most balanced Smash Bros game is a fan mod.
>>321139187
>No iconic moves
Project M says hi.
And also to fuck off.
Ganondorf isn't even a clone. He plays completely differently from Falcon.
>>321155016
You're dumb.
>>321139187
I blame Zelda boss fights being piss easy so no one ever sees anything besides energy ball tennis
>>321155410
If you're going to bait, put in some effort
Kill yourself my man.
>>321155016
Do you need glasses or something?
>>321155531
If you play Ganondorf and Falcon like they are the same character then you are retarded, mate.
>>321155410
You know who else Ganondorf plays completely different to? Ganondorf.
>>321155665
The only thing that makes them different is that Ganon is slower and does more damage. If his frames/damage were adjusted, he would just be a big, black Falcon.
>>321155964
>>321132889
The thumbnail looks like Rayman riding on a rail and I thought Rayman 4 had been announced for a second there. Oh well
>>321156178
holy shit you're right
why isn't he in fucking smash anyway
he's got 3 trophies and Ubisoft is clearly down with it
>>321136006
Now it's garbage with a hitbox that doesn't even cover the animation
>>321150407
Well reading this thread, it seems people throw an autistic shit fit when you suggest that Ganondorf should have his own moves from his series. I'm even fine keeping his normals, but I don't see why his specials can't be different. I can live with Fox and Falco being "clones" considering their history, but it irks me that Dark Pit and Pit are ok just cause "Muh frames", yet everyone makes fun of Street fighter, MVC, and KOF clones.
My point is that Sakurai and his team got lazy, and now its celebrated just like every other lazy decision in the industry, instead of being questioned as it should. And before someone gets on my case and says its not laziness but limitations, that's bullshit.
We were told Ice Climbers weren't possible cause of limits, yet we have Rosalina, so its really just bullshit.
Solution:
Two sets per fighter.
>Mario now has a "classic" moveset and a "sunshine" moveset so people can have their mario tornado
>Flacondorf moveset and brawler mage ganon moveset
>"standard" toon link and WW toon link
Just cut the pointless customization system altogether. It was a neat idea on paper, but I think every character having two different set movesets would simply work much better. And of course for the sake of being easily recognizable online, give them slightly different looks. i.e. the ganon we've got now also plays like the ganon we've got now, but dark mage brawler ganon would look more like OoT or something
>>321140094
Too bad these problems hurt the game as a casual game too.
>>321132889
Roses are red
Violets are blue
Ganon/Toon Link/Falco is OP
So shut the fuck up about that, you.and Meta got castrated because he was OP in Brawl, and Marth in melee.
>>321149163
>Especially when no one complained about the lack of BF versions in previous games
True, but in competitive scene people mostly play Battlefield styled stages, with Final Destination actually being more rare. In BF stages you have some platforms, which gives more options for movement which is a big part of Smash.
My guess is that Sakurai just took the NO ITEMS FINAL DESTINATION meme too seriously.
>>321156401
>but it irks me that Dark Pit and Pit are ok just cause "Muh frames"
Actually, the pits have identical framedata.
>>321135203
>Ganondorf whine
>Zelda
>#2 anything.and Mario+Pokémon make more money than Zelda, so....yeah.
Zelda ain't #3 either with Splatoon.
Yeah right. Super Smash Bros has always been "OH YEAH BITCH CHOKE ON THIS GOD DAMNED FIRE EMBLEM SOME MORE YOU FAGGOT. SUCK IT DOWN" after Smash 64.
>>321156401
>Well reading this thread, it seems people throw an autistic shit fit when you suggest that Ganondorf should have his own moves from his series.
That's just the new wave of 'Sakurai can do no wrong' dickriders, spawned out of backlash to whining Melee fanboys up to and surrounding the release of Smash 4.
>>321156401
I main both Pits and i still think Dark Pit shouldve just been an alt, who the hell thinks its acceptable?
>>321156416
>Hey, they're adding custom moves? That's fucking genius! That will keep people who liked the old movesets that clones like Ganondorf and Falco had, let people bring back characters like Dr. Mario add more depth and content to existing characters without bogging down the roster with complete crap!
>My fucking face when I see hot punch cold punch big punch
>>321156416
>solution
Sounds like more effort to me,homie.
>>321132889
>This fucking butthurt
>>321134815
>D-Do I fit in yet guys?!
>>321157404
>tfw you unlocked all the special moves anyway
That was so terrible. Pretty much the worst game design I've ever seen in my entire life.
>>321157469
Well yeah, when you break something it takes effort to repair. We've all seen what went into Ryu, Cloud, Bayo, and even Corrin. Same with Megaman and Pac-Man. We've seen the effort presented, and memes aside each smash does get better than the last in SOME places. If/When smash5 comes out, while I'm not expecting this whole two moveset system, I honestly think it'd be a much better alternative to what they tried to do with customs
>>321157404
>tfw Palutena is the only character who legit had an actual custom moveset.
>you cant use custom moves online
Pretty useless feature for people who have no friends.
>>321154340
I still like Mario Tornado as down b far more than Fludd. Part of the reason I accept Dr. Mario.
>>321156889
Melee and Brawl only had two fire emblem reps each.
You are beyond retarded.
I don't even know what the big deal is about clones, especially when they're not like Lucina/Pittoo and get appreciable differences like Falco. If someone told me they wanted to mod Ken or Akuma to play completely different from the shoto template, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves. I understand why people complain about Ganondorf, but if you think Toon Link shouldn't be similar to regular Link then you're an idiot.
>>321157731
Smash 4 made a step back in everything except gameplay. And gameplay in Brawl was so many steps back that it's worse than 64 now.
>>321157817
Well, as moderately popular FE is now, that shit was damn near impossibly obscure compared to other series that at the time of gc and wii were way more popular
>>321157868
Lucina and Dark Pit are the only characters I'm legitimately butthurt about.
Dr. Mario kind of but he's a veteran so I'll give him a break.
>>321157514
>Tfw Sakurai will never give Ganon a unique moveset
>Tfw Wario will never get a Wario land based moveset
>>321157404
>>321157726
>>321157782
>The only functional purpose custom moves served in the end was so you could pick the most broken one and plough through the lackluster single player content even faster
cool
>>321157404
A pain I know all too well
I'll defend Sakurai for a lot of shit, but revamping all those characters and still making Ganondorf a clone is such a retarded choice
>>321157404
>Megaman's customs are infinitely better than his standard set.
>Customs banned online and at tourneys.
What's even the point?
