>Tolkien discussion on /tg/
>suddenly someone starts talking about Shadow of Mordor
will you just fucking stop it already
your shitty game is a greater offense to Tolkien's legendarium than the live-action Hobbit films so keep it to yourselves
>>277262306
Tolkien a shit, anyway.
>>277262306
The general consensus is that the game sucked shit.
>>277262409
then why's it selling so well on Steam
>>277262306
is that supposed to be Smaug?
>>277263267
No its the bad guy from the children of Hurin
>>277263267
Glaurung, the first of the fire-drakes.
One of the bigger plot holes in Tolkien's universe.
>>277263087
same reason transformers and adam sandler movies are also selling well
>>277263267
It's Glaurung. Like the filename says.
Glaurung the Golden was the first dragon.
>>277263528
>Tolkein
>plot holes
Good one
Seriously, there is an answer to every "plot hole" some pimply smartass can conjour up in the Tolkein universe
>INB4 EAGLES
Countered so many times
>>277263528
>One of the bigger plot holes in Tolkien's universe.
uh, how
>>277263640
poor dorfs, they are always getting their shit pushed in
>>277263740
The Dorfs really showed what hardasses they were during that battle though. They alone were able to withstand Glaurung's assault. Their Elven allies couldn't take the heat, literally.
>>277263705
why didnt Fodor just drive an eagle to Mrodo and drops the rings into the lava??!?
>>277263572
Jews....
>>277263705
>Seriously, there is an answer to every "plot hole" some pimply smartass can conjour up in the Tolkein universe
Tolkien explicitly stated that Melkor couldn't create, and that creation was reserved to Iluvatar, who was basically GOD. Yet at the same time, shit like Ungoliant exist in multitude, and were around before and beyond the works of Iluvatar.
So yeah, since he couldn't give the notion of will and sentience to beasts, and since he couldn't create it, Glaurung would've either had to have been a canon breach or one of the primordial incarnations of chaos that exist beyond Iluvatar.
>>277263978
Or the elves are full of it and Iluvatar ain't such hot shit.
>>277263905
>fodor
>>277264192
>not knowing le epic memes
>>277263978
Tolkien's legendarium was a work in progress.
Originally the Orcs were animated by Morgoth out of bits of muck and filth. Then Tolkien changed his mind.
He never got around to tweaking the origin of trolls and dragons before he died but there are a variety of theories which would fit.
So Glaurung is not a plothole, obviously.
because somebody has to
>>277264301
>Originally the Orcs were animated by Morgoth out of bits of muck and filth.
Das dumb, tho.
>>277264301
Oh, and by the way, Tolkien intended for his legendarium to be a work in progress. He wanted his myths to change the way real world mythology did. So he incorporated the rewrites themselves into the fabric of his story telling.
Tolkien didn't write he stories he, he "translated" them. And the bit about Orcs being made of mud or the first account of Bilbo's encounter with Gollum were based on earlier, less accurate translations.
Pretty much nothing Tolkien wrote is supposed to be strictly canonical. He even wrote that the Silmarillion had been twisted by Elven biases and whatnot.
>>277264301
>>277262306
seeing these two makes me bummed that the peter jackson movies will forever be the "canon" (or at least the most prominent) style for the lotr universe, as much as i do like the lotr movies.
the hobbit trilogy was some of the worst cinema i've seen in a long time though
>>277264053
>>277264503
>TFW no qt3.14 uruk waifu to bring ruination to the world with
>>277263978
Ungoliant wasn't made by Melkor, first of all. The two main theories are she was a part of the world present at its inception that the Valar had no part in shaping, like Tom Bombadil was. The second is that she was something from whatever there was before Iluvatar made the world. Either way addresses your problem.
The point of Melkor being unable to create wasn't a literal thing, the point was that he only knew how to corrupt existing ideas, never thinking of something new to add to the world. He just distorted what was already there. Orcs are his perversions of elves, trolls of ents, balrogs of Maia, etc. Though the specifics are unsaid it can be inferred that wyrms are a similar corruption.
>>277264885
Tolkien actually made over twenty languages, fifteen of which are Elven.
He also made nine writing scripts besides.
>>277264912
>Ungoliant wasn't made by Melkor, first of all.
Never meant to claim that. Sorry if what I typed suggested that.
>>277264885
>>277265003
>Want to create universe down to the finest detail
>Would probably be disregarded and just be a huge sign of autism
Having dreams is suffering.
>>277262306
>pretending you speak for /tg/
You only go to the isocubes if you survive, creep.
>>277264912
>The two main theories are she was a part of the world present at its inception that the Valar had no part in shaping, like Tom Bombadil was.
You mean created as a direct result of the music?
That would make them creations of the Valar though. Ungoliant certainly being the product of Melkor's discord.
Otherwise yeah she was like the biblical Leviathan like you said.
>trolls of ents, balrogs of Maia, etc.
Trolls were made in "mockery" of the Ents and Balrogs are Maiar.
>>277263726
Not that guy but I would wager it on the fact that Dragons have no clear origin. You would think that Melkor would have created them, but Tolkien specifically said that Melkor is incapable of creating things, only modifying/destroying them.
>>277265219
anyone on /tg/ with any interest in SoM does not fucking belong on /tg/
they're the ones who need to be shipped off to the isocubes and you know it
>>277265219
Ah good, another judge. Let's send this creep outta here.
>>277265337
I thought he could make things but couldn't give them free will, as that was only something the secret fire could do.
but I only skimmed that part
>>277265337
>but Tolkien specifically said that Melkor is incapable of creating things
Melkor can create, he just can't create beings with their own souls. None of the gods can, only God.
>>277264912
Ungoliant is Tolkien doing Lovecraftian better than Lovecraft.
>>277265189
Maybe if you weren't such an autist you wouldn't care about what other people thought.
>>277265504
>dwarves
>>277265387
>>277265387
>having fun in a way I don't like is wrong and should be punished
>>277265634
The dwarves were approved by Illuvatar, though. He was the one that gave them souls.
>Iluvatar feels no need to stop Ungoliant from eating the trees or any of the other horrendously fucked up shit from happening
>Brings Gandalf back from the dead and directly fucks with Morgoth and Sauron's plans despite promising to stay out of shit.
>>277265634
No souls. Only oblivion after death.
>>277265690
But they can never go to the shining shores.
>>277265465
Tolkien compared the "secret fire" or the "flame imperishable" to the Christian doctrine of the Holy Spirit in one of his letters.
It's sort of a divine lifeforce which creates and sustains creatures with their own being, their own essences and immortal souls. Eru alone posses that power. The Ainur created the whole universe at Eru's command but not even the Valar could make sapient lifeforms.
>>277265465
>>277265504
That's correct, sorry I poorly wrote that part as that's what I meant to get across.
>>277265634
I forget that part but I think dwarves were "approved" and given free will by the creation god or something?
I'm sure it's all very well explained and not confusing
>>277265545
Nah, Ungoliant is too... comprehensible
The Dark Things beneath Moria work better because there's not a word of explanation about what they are and there's some beauty to the idea of there being parts of the world that are so deep they reach beyond the bones of creation and every single part of the world you see or know of, from the very beginning, exists completely ignorant of the fact that they rest upon the back of an untold number of crawling nameless powers in the deep
>>277262306
I loved Shadow of Mordor and the LotR books as well. Call the cops fucking manchildren, I don't give a fuck.
>>277265757
Illuvatar didn't do that.
Okay, he totally fucked with them, but he didn't bring Gandalf back from the dead.
>>277265634
The Dwarves were just golems until Eru gave them souls.
Mordor is actually a decent game (combat needs to be more difficult) but the LOTR setting was completely tacked on (besides the orcs).
>>277265859
It's okay to be stupid. So long as you know it
>>277265794
see, this shit is what i'm talking about.
This Smaug looks cool as fuck but now every time I google Smaug it's going to be pages and pages of that fucking ugly CGI dragon from the movies.
I suppose I may be just salty because I had a badass Hobbit picture book as a kid, and those illustrations were gorgeous
>>277265990
It's not ok to be dead inside and be incapable of enjoying things.
>>277265941
They explicitly cowered in the presence of Eru, when Eru busted into Aule's workshop to confront him about what he was doing.
>>277265757
The Valar resurrected Gandalf. He was their herald, and the only one who did the job he was sent for.
Apart from reshaping the world (and sinking Numenor and Beleriand in the process" Eru never really did anything, ever.
>>277262306
>tfw can't live in fantasy settings.
>>277266074
I love and enjoy Tolkien more than you will ever know and I suffer on his behalf to see his legacy laid so low.
>>277264885
What was compared to Tolkien's work here anyways? I need to know if this rage was truly justified.
>>277266215
Are you Tolkien or something? Stop being mad about other people enjoying what you don't like, faggot.
>>277266113
>Eru never really did anything, ever.
>tfw being god is probably similar to having a dream with only fleeting moments of lucidity and control, where there is a constant battle between beauty and dread
>>277266293
Some dumb shit from The Legend of korra
>>277266072
I like the Rankin and Bass interpretation of Smaug because it somehow looks threatening as all hell
And what annoys me about the Smaug from the Hobbit movies is that his face just looks wrong somehow.
Also the fact that he's not covered in gold
>>277266215
Clip related must've hurt like a motherfucker, then.
>>277266098
That was after he gave them souls, and they cowered in fear because Aule was about to destroy them.
Eru chastised Aule for trying to make his own life, remember, but then he decided "oh why the hell not" so he gave the Dwarven forefathers souls, which is how they showed fear when Aule was ready to destroy them.
>>277266215
>implying his work is laid low because someone made a game with 'middle earth' on it
Christ, you're a wilting violet.
>create angels with the power and desire to create and specifically forbid them from doing the latter
>surprised when one of them goes all "I WISH I WAS NEVER BORN" and fucks off into edgeland, then comes back in a few years and tries to blast brokencyde over your dadrock
iluvatar in a nutshell
>>277266337
Ok, then yeah it was justified.
>>277263705
The Hobbit:
>Innocent magic ring with no ill portent
Lord of the Rings:
>Suddenly an evil magic ring of satan, cue christian fan-fiction and plagarism of mainstream myth
>>277265337
FAENOR DID NOTHING WRONG
VALAR A SHIT
TELERI A SHIT
MORGOTH A DOUBLE SHIT
FAENOR BEST ELF
Only good LOTR game coming through
>>277266368
He gave them souls THEN was about to destroy them?
Eru's a grim motherfucker. Makes them capable of feeling fear before he he sets to deleting them.
>>277262306
no one cares lord of the rings is for fucking faggots
>>277266346
Am I supposed to assume that Sauron just isn't going to notice that this half-ringwraith edgelord is using his forge?
And how is he going to forge a ring? Is Celebrimbor the friendly ghost going to do it? Because he fucking can't, he's a ghost and is totally incorporeal.
How long is he going to spend on this ring, also? It took Celebrimbor 90 years to create the Elven rings.
ITT: Nerds.
>>277266501
The tie in movie games for two towers and ROTK were good though.
>>277266579
>Am I supposed to assume that Sauron just isn't going to notice that this half-ringwraith edgelord is using his forge?
Based on the golden glow of his eyes, it's Sauron's plan. The game establishes that as Sauron's thing.
![Morgoth_and_Fingolfin_2_by_Mentosik8[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/np4KCdB.jpg "Morgoth_and_Fingolfin_2_by_Mentosik8[1].jpg")
>>277266391
Not saying it wasn't. But it is hilarious.
>>277266461
He did everything wrong.
Fingolfin best elf. Prove me wrong.
>>277266414
uhh p. sure sauron is explicitly mentioned in the hobbit, in the movies he's just called "the necromancer"
>>277266505
Yeah he was kind of fucking with Aule the whole time. He wouldn't let Aule think that what he had done was okay until he was fully repentant and ready to destroy his greatest work.
>>277266679
Fuck, wrong image.
>>277266346
>that sword clipping it's way into the sheath
it hurts
Who created the Hobbits?
>>277266667
>friend gave me my first portable (gameboy sp) when he got his ds
>game me some shitty games for it, including LotR The Third Age
>mediocre turnbased combat with fabricated scenes that tie into the plot
>way, waaaay better than I've ever expected from a tie-in game
>watching tTT a month ago
>recognize scenes in it from when I played them in The Third Age
>it wasn't inventing scenes, they actually existed in the movie
Weirdest fucking feeling ever.
>>277262306
Is it ever explained how Morgoth created Glaurung? Because that picture makes me think the story behind it is just fascinating, like him grabbing chunks of dead meat, molding and folding it together around some poor crazy tortured chump in the form of a dragon then infusing life into it
>>277266414
Are you retarded?
>>277266748
sounds like biblical yahweh
>>277266745
Nah Sauron is referred to as "The Necromancer" in the book too. He's only mentioned once or twice offhand though.
>>277266414
>plagiarism
Tolkien never plagiarized anything. And Christian fan-fiction? Please. Eru is never mentioned once in the entire book, and neither is religion in any context whatsoever.
>>277266842
God.
>>277262306
>>277266932
the fellowship of the ring is when they realize that the necromancer is sauron, but they moved that scene to the hobbit movies
which makes no sense because Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel and even Elrond see Sauron clear as day in a flaming eye surrounded by the nine long before the events of lotr
>>277266932
>Tolkien never plagiarized anything. And Christian fan-fiction? Please. Eru is never mentioned once in the entire book, and neither is religion in any context whatsoever.
Exactly. Just because a work has Christian themes does not mean it 'plagiarized' Christian canon. More than that, disregarding your personal feelings on religion, the Bible has one of if not the most influential literary work in the entire Western canon. It makes sense then that works would borrow themes and such from it.
>>277266716
Fingolfin is cool and everything but the best he could do was hamstring Morgoth.
Faenor
>Creates the Silmarils, jewels of such power they make the Rings of Power look like the fucking cheesy plastic jewelry they are
>Gets so fucking mad that he calls the god of evil a mean name and it fucking sticks for the rest of eternity
>Gets so fucking mad that he invents weapons
>Gets so fucking mad that he commits genocide on his own race because they think that maybe he should calm down a bit
>Goes to unexplored places in the world to hunt down that faggot Morgoth
>Destroys entire armies of Balrogs along the way
>Is so fucking mad that he self immolates
Faenor is the coolest fucker Eru ever whistled about.
>>277267558
>the best he could do was hamstring Morgoth.
>the best he could do was hamstring Morgoth, mightiest archangel of Eru
>the best he could do was injure a literal ASPECT OF GOD in such a way that it would never recover
>seven separate times
Feanor ruined everything, his older brother hand to try and follow him and see if he could clean up after Feanor's messes.
>>277262306
It's not even canon. And combines both the books and movies.
![melkor_and_fingolfin_by_vihola-d37wrfg[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/kA9xEvx.png "melkor_and_fingolfin_by_vihola-d37wrfg[1].png")
>>277267823
Also he was beaten the fuck down by SATAN three times, getting up to fight again each time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aB6CPyO0Ww
>>277267823
Faenor could beat Fingolfin in an armwrestle.
>>277267823
>>277267558
Okay, I know nothing about Tolkien but how do mortal beings become that powerful? This guy is an Elf, right?
>>277268068
And especially at a "How much can I ruin" contest.
>>277267830
>It's not even canon
Of fucking course not you moron. Tolkien's dead, it can't be canon.
>And combines both the books and movies.
Uh, no you blithering retard, it's just a shitty fanfiction which totally disregards the established lore in every way it can because, like you, the devs know jack shit about anything Tolkien ever actually wrote.
Stupid cunt.
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/DGt8Neu.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
>>277268068
>Faenor the bitch dies to Gothmog
>Fingolfin fucking crippled Morgoth for eternity
sure okay bud
>>277268083
Hotblooded fightan' spirit.
Honestly?
>elves are immortal; only die in combat (or suicide)
So he's spent twenty thousand years being a badass and learning not to die.
>basked in the light of the Trees
So he's fucking supercharged
>elf
So he's better than you at absolutely everything.
At a guess.
>>277268083
It's not so much how powerful Fingolfin was but how weak Morgoth was by that point, after having spent so much of his energies corrupting the whole cosmos.
Although even then it took an exceptionally powerful warrior to injure him. Which Fingolfin was.
>>277268083
Fingolfin was basically one of the best elves, is the reason why. He waged a siege against and contained Morgoth for 400 years.
>>277268083
The thing is not how they were so powerful then, but why they became so weak now. The entire point of Tolkien's writings seems to be that the world is in a constant state of degeneration where the great powers of today are merely shades of the great powers of yesterday. Sauron is nothing compared to Morgoth, the same as Mordor is nothing compared to Angband, and Angband is nothing compared to Utumno. The elves fit into the same pattern
>A human goes to visit an Elven king
>The king is "out for a walk"
>It takes hundreds of years for the king to come back from "walking around."
Tolkien made the various races really fucking good.
>>277268083
>Elves
>Mortal
All the strongest elves are basically gods, and infact in several instances actually do things better than the gods. For instance, the Silmarils were made by Faenorbest elf in existenceand when Aulë, the god of fucking smithing sees them he goes all like, 'What the fuck is this magic bullshit Faenor. How did you pull shit shit?'
Elves Master Race
Live longer, fight better, smarter, stronger, better smithing
Damn Elves just shit on other races
>>277268462
The Dwarves are better at smelting and making ringmail than Elves.
And the Numenorians had all of the Elves' best qualities and none of their lethargy.
Ar-pharazon's golden armada would have fucked over the gods themselves if God hadn't personally stepped in to stop it.
yo this is a pretty cool thread going on here
so can some one explain to me how orc are made?
like i understand they corrupt elves to make orcs but like there are so many fucking orcs like a sea of orcs how do you corrupt THAT many elves
>>277268748
>Everything in this post is wrong
>>277268879
Not every single orc was once an elf, Morgoth just captured a handful of elves at the beginning of the world, corrupted them into orcs, and left them to breed like rabbits. Orcs nowdays are apparently like any other race as far as reproduction goes
>>277268879
Orcs are a species
Elves were corrupted into orcs
>elves are graceful and quick, orcs are brutal and strong
>elves are intelligent and beautiful, orcs are thick and ugly
>elves are long-lived and breed slowly, orcs are short-lived and breed quickly
Once you corrupt a breeding population no more corruption is necessary.
>>277268879
The Orcs were created before the sun and moon were. They existed prior to the first age. When something's been around that long they've had plenty of time to multiply. Because unlike their Elven counterparts Orcs don't shy away from reproduction, apparently.
>>277268315
Adding onto this Smaug is fucking nothing compared to Ancalagon.
Shelob is nothing compared to Ungoliant.
Shit in the First Age was just better.
>>277268320
Maybe I should read more of his stuff. I only ever read The Hobbit.
>>277269160
It explicitly say in the Silmarillion that, although Elves are generally the best at everything, Dwarves were good enough at smithing that they surpassed Elves in smelting and making ringmail. That's straight from the book.
And Tolkien also said that the golden armada would have wrought ruin in Valinor. I'm taking it straight from the source here.
>>277262306
>/v/ is one person
>he is also /tg/
>>277269259
>orcs are short-lived and breed quickly
I remember reading that, based on Shagrat and Gorebag's conversion, it's implied that Orcs actually have long lives. Because they were talking about some battle which took place a long fucking time before the war of the ring as though they remembered it, or something like that.
>>277269436
>It explicitly say in the Silmarillion that, although Elves are generally the best at everything, Dwarves were good enough at smithing that they surpassed Elves in smelting and making ringmail. That's straight from the book.
Feanor was the best crafter to ever exist in Arda. Full stop.
Numenoreans were alright, but they certainly had some of the elves lethargy. Less though.
And I'm sure bringing ruin to Valinor was their intent. They would have done it. I don't think it was Eru's intervention though; that was all the Valar.
>>277268879
It's not specified. Tolkien fucking love make up cool stuff but he never really detail them.
>>277269651
>Feanor was the best crafter to ever exist in Arda. Full stop.
Well of course I was excluding Feanor. Even the god of artisans wasn't as good as crafting as Feanor was. My meaning was more general.
>I don't think it was Eru's intervention though; that was all the Valar.
No, the Valar begged Eru to do something and he did.
>>277269869
First part, sure.
Second part, I'll need a sauce. That doesn't sound right.
>there will never be a long series based on the first age
Fucking Tolkien who let him die
>>277269651
The Valar dropped their lordship over the land when Ar-Pharazon invaded, so Eru fucked them up.
>>277269869
And Celebrimbor crafted the rings of power as well.Celebrimbor also happened to be Feanor's grandson, I guess it runs in the family
>>277269997
I SAID I was sorry! I was busy, didn't change his water for ONE DAY...
>>277269942
I'm too lazy to dig around for my copy of the Silmarillion right now but I'll bet you money that it says Manwe begged for Eru's intercession or something along those lines.
Remember, Arda was rounded into a sphere. The world was originally flat but Eru made it round and set Valinor completely apart so that anybody couldn't just get there by traveling west. The gods didn't have the power to do that.
>>277266882
>The Third Age on GBA
nigga what?
>>277270218
I got you covered
>Then Manwe upon the mountain called upon Iluvatar, and for that time the Valar laid down their government of Arda. But Iluvatar showed forth his power, and he changed the fashion of the world; and a great chasm opened in the sea between Numenor and the Deathless Lands, and the cataracts wents up to heaven, and the world was shaken. And all the fleets of the Numenoreans were drawn down into the abyss, and they were drowned and swallowed up for ever. But Ar-Pharazon the king and the mortal warriors that had set foot upon the land of Aman were buried under falling hills: there it is said that they lie imprisoned in the Caves of the Forgotten, until the Last Battle and the Day of Doom.
>>277270581
Got it right here. Lord of the Rings [beneath it:] The Third Age
Little half-size GBA cartridge.
EA games logo, Nintendo logo, little nintendo seal of approval on the other side of the label
Nintendo logo in the plastic on the back
Is there some way I can be more clear?
>>277270814
well thanks mister
>>277269305
Pretty much.
Ancalagon was a hard motherfucker. The 1st dragon horde was like a storm of fire and death.
They were powerful enough to drive the armies of the gods to the edge of the ocean before Earendil fucked up Ancalagon the black with nothing but a spaceship, a Silmaril, and a sword.l
I listen to this while reading the chapter about the War of Wrath.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNQvLECht08
>>277270814
>>277270218
Daaaayum. I was wrong, you were right, etc.
I'd still like a sauce on Tolkein's declaration that they would have fucked Valar shit up, but it's hard to argue with the first part anymore.
>>277270814
Wait so there are dudes living underground until what I'm guessing is the end days?
Féanor, what a great character.
>After Morgoth to the ends of the Earth! War he shall have and hatred undying. But when we have conquered and have regained the Silmarils, then we and we alone shall be lords of the unsullied Light, and masters of the bliss and beauty of Arda. No other race shall oust us!”
>We will never play as Turin the edgelord
>We will never get to kill niggas in fits of anger
>We will never fuck and impregnate our own qt 3.14 little sister
>We will never use the talking black sword that only says edgy shit and thirsts for murder
>We will never kill the father of dragons
>>277271110
>dies to a balrog
Pleb elf
>>277271085
Something has crept, or has been driven out of dark waters under the mountains. There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.
Far, far below the deepest delving of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day.
-Gandalf the Grey
>>277270998
>I'd still like a sauce on Tolkein's declaration that they would have fucked Valar shit up
well that's somewhat speculative but he did say Ar-pharazon would have "wrought ruin," or something, somewhere
>>277265545
In some versions of the story, Earendil finds and kills Ungoliant
>>277269351
That specific thing about the elf-king out on a walk is from the Silmarillion, and that's just fucking hard to read.
>>277271321
>gandalf keeping lore from us
What the fuck man
>>277262306
>greater offense to Tolkien's legendarium than the live-action Hobbit films
Whoa, whoa. I hate the game as much as you do but let's not be so fucking hasty, here.
>>277271646
Gandalf was a dick
>>277270998
Personally I don't think Ar-Pharazon stood a chance, as strong as the Numenorean fleets were, they couldn't take on all of the Valar, Maiar, and huge armies of elves all at once, especially considering that elves go to the Halls of Mandos IN VALINOR when they die, so if they really wanted to the elves could just keep coming back for more over and over again. As for the whole Ar-Pharazon bringing ruin or whatever, regardless of the outcome, a war of that size would have fucked the place up. The whole of Beleriand sunk after the War of Wrath, this might be a similar level of destruction.
>>277271205
Turin had a hard life.
>>277271085
Yup, all the Numenoreans led by their king onto the Undying Lands got punished for it by being stuck in caves under a ton of rubble until the unmaking of the world. He also changed the world from a flat disk into a sphere, with Valinor being on a separate plane, and sunk their homeland Numenor entirely, so that they can't try that shit again.
I just wish I could find a girl who loves tolkien and is a christian and a virgin, I mean you'd think it would be easy but it's bloody impossible,
>>277271776
>especially considering that elves go to the Halls of Mandos IN VALINOR when they die
Spirits. Not bodies.
>>277271834
Daughters!
>>277271692
Like he couldn't even monologue it to himself, god damn piece of shit
>>277271834
Fucking. D I S G U S T I N G
>>277271879
Do they not get their bodies back after chilling in there for awhile? I think they can also reincarnate on Middle Earth if they choose to, though most don't. Glorfindel did though.
>Dragon bigger than mountains
>a spider that can eat mountains
>edgy Elf blacksmith that's somehow better than gods
>Le Turin
>amies of balrogs losing to a few skilled elves
Thank God Silmarillion will forever remain a draft, since it wasn't finished before Tolkien's death. This would turn the beautiful Lord of the Rings canon, which is much deeper than this childish cosmogony, into a Dungeons & Dragons edgy storybook.
>>277272171
>Do they not get their bodies back after chilling in there for awhile?
Only after Dagor Dagoroth. Then everyone who died is reembodied.
>>277272171
>I think they can also reincarnate on Middle Earth
Possibly. But only if the Valar let them, which would only be in a handful of situations. And possibly that can't happen at all. Tolkien never actually said that LotR Glorfindel was Silmarillion Glorfindel.
Anyway the Halls of Mandos is basically like limbo for Elves. They can't move through and past the halls like mortals. Elves can't have real afterlives because they're supposed to be a permanent part of the world.
That's why Elves dying is such serious business. Because they basically face nothingness until the second music. If they all could reincarnate so simply the death of an Elf wouldn't nearly be so tragic.
Comfiest
>>277272193
>amies of balrogs losing to a few skilled elves
That bits outdated, just like the stuff about Orcs being made of mud.
Tolkien rewrote the Balrogs numbers down and their powerlevels up, so that only the most powerful of Elven warriors could fight a Balrog, and victory always came at the cost of their own lives.
Man i love Tolkein threads on /v/
Thoughts on War in the North?
I had fun with that. Mostly cause Belaram and that part where you totally suck up to that one dragon
>>277271998
There are some things better left unkown anon...
>>277272380
Well, I don't have any counterarguments on hand, so it looks you got me there then.
>>277272545
Balrogs are Maiar now
>>277272380
Only after Dagor Dagoroth. Then everyone who died is reembodied.
Wrong. Elves almost always choose to come back, except for some like Feanor's mom.
And Tolkien scrapped Dagor Dorath for being a rip off of Ragnarok and conflicting with established canon anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lg2AAXaWCU
Feanor couldn't have done any less.
NOT CANNON
NOT CANNON
not cannon
not cannon
>>277272826
>plate armor in Middle-Earth
grr
What the fuck is up with the Nydus Worms in Five Armies?
>>277262306
if thats the design of characters in the original then thanks god for the new hobbit films
ayyy lmao let me have claws that stab my own tail and make it hard as fuck to walk so fucking stupid
>>277272781
>Wrong. Elves almost always choose to come back, except for some like Feanor's mom.
Where the hell are you getting this information?
And really, if I was wrong, then why would it ever be a big deal for Elves to die?
>And Tolkien scrapped Dagor Dorath for being a rip off of Ragnarok and conflicting with established canon anyway.
Uh, no. And even if he did scrap it, how would it conflict with the rest of the lore, exactly?
>>277272874
Yes, it definitely is not a projectile weapon that utilizes gunpowder.Springs and magnets master race, chemical propellant a shit
>>277272287
Ted is fucking good.
Fuck yeah, Ted Nasmith!
>>277264906
That's a man, baby!
>Imagining a Metal Gear Solid-like story taking place inside Lord of the Rings
Then Jackson changed the Rangers into Elves.
>>277272950
>HME vol. 10, The later Quenta Silmarillion: Laws and Customs among the Eldar
The Elves see themselves as two different parts: the Fëa (spirit) and the Hröa (body). The two parts are not bound to each other, but without the Hröa, the Fëa is powerless, and with no spirit, the body is dead and will soon dissolve. {1}
The life-span of the Elves is by nature the same as that of the world (although they are often called immortal, which is a totally different thing). But the Elves call earth "Arda Sahta", the Marred World. Within its borders, nothing can be uninfluenced by Melkor, and Elves and Men, who are made of Arda's matter, are all likely to suffer in some way. {2}
Thus the elvish Fëa tend to "consume" the Hröa, until all that is left of it is a vague shape and it is indeed indestructable. Also, the Elves may die of grief or wounds (but not by disease) and then the Fëa will leave the Hröa.
Then the "houseless" Fëa will be summoned to the Halls of Mandos, and it may go there of free will. Most Fëar do this, but those who has been influenced by Melkor and are corrupt often dread the punishment they will receive in Mandos and stay in Middle-earth, trying to take over some other Hröa that already contains a Fëa.
Those who follow the summons may, if they wish, be reincarnated in a new-born body, identical to the previous (or returned to their earlier body, if it is still intact; this is seldom the case). The others stay in Mandos until the end of the world, or may go and live in Valinor. For the Elves are bound to the world, and can't leave it. In this their fate differs from that of Men.
All Fëar, whatever way they choose, must wait in Mandos for a time; how long depends on the invidual. If the Fëa has done evil in its previous life it must often wait longer until allowed to return to life. Sometimes it has to stay for good. Fëanor was for instance never allowed to leave Mandos. {3}
>>277262306
>"your shitty game is a greater offense to Tolkien's legendarium than the live-action Hobbit films so keep it to yourselves"
Did you bring the book into the cinema and read every fucking sentence in sync with the film to see how "faithful" it is? I prefer the additions over the vanilla story so far (except that barrel scene) and am not upset about how expanded it is. You can throw "hurr durr petar jerksun iz dew becauze moar films=$$$!!!" all you like at my comment, but the trilogy was to be set on the same league as Lord of The Rings.
>>277273801
And the latest version of the Valenquenta says none of Mandos' dooms had declared whether the Marring of Arda would ever be repaired.
TL;DR
You're a faggot
>>277264885
>implying LOTR isn't just backstory for his Elvish languages
>>277273459
I really liked that he did a version of Melkor that isn't just a giant covered head to toe in armor.
>>277271671
He said hobbit, not LOTR.
Hobbit films were garbage
>>277273914
Nice strawman
>>277272932
I dunno, but I dig it.
>>277262306
books are for fags
>>277274695
>"You can't like what I hate!"
>>277262409
Bollocks is it
>>277274779
>I didn't like it because it wasn't faithful to the adaptation
Thats the strawman you mongoloid
If Tolkien would fight Lovecraft, would he win?
>>277275085
Was Lovecraft in World War I? Tolkien was.
>>277262306
Only if you take MTG threads back with you, you fucking faggot.
>>277275145
Lovecraft was beta NEET with mental health issues as i can remember
>>277275085
Tolkien was legitimately in a war.
A trained soldier.
>>277275085
>Lovecraft
>Beta neet with mental issues and known virgin
>Tolkien
>Alpha as fuck soldier and catholic
>QT waifu who loved him since they were teenagers
>Bros with C.S. Lewis
>>277265853
Thanks for pointing these out. It's fucking so cool.
>>277262306
ok this shit you guys are talking about is really interesting, all i know about the universe is from LOTR and The Hobbit, where do go to learn all this stuff, is it all in the Silmarillion?
>>277276462
Yes
If only it wasn't such a chore to read
>>277271321
Something gibbous has crept, or has been driven out of dark waters under the gibbous mountains. There are older and fouler things than gibbous Orcs in the deep places of the world.
Far, far below the deepest gibbous delving of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless gibbous things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older and more gibbous than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day.
Now I hear a gibbous knock on the door, there is little time left to.....
-H.P. Lovecraft
>>277276462
Yeah, pretty much all of it is in the Silmarillion, be warned though; it doesn't read like a novel, more like the Bible, and can be kind of hard to get through sometimes. If you want to learn more about the lore and backstory though, its great.
>>277276462
The Silmarillion is literally a history book.
It's as fun to read as an actual history book.
>>277276462
Appendices in The return of the King and Silmarillion are good start. Then there are Unfinished tales and some other posthumos works.
>>277264404
Has to what?
Celebrate the first truly modern dark fantasy hero?
Respect the attempt to portray the duality and dichotomy of the Shaman archetype?
>>277275806
C S Lewis the kiddie fondled for Christ.
>>277264767
So he pulled a "I was merely pretending to be retarded" and people loved that? I guess Tolkien fans are the real retards then.
>>277264885
>the guy is a pro linguist
>the guy is a pro writer
Pick only one, because being a linguist doesn't mean you can write interesting stuff corrrectly.
>>277264813
>the hobbit trilogy was some of the worst cinema i've seen in a long time though
and why is that exactly?
Everytime I read Tolkiens literary works I get nostalgia flashbacks to vanilla wow when I played as Dwarves. Good times.
>>277266346
This might be more /tv/ related, but there's something about The Tower that irks me.
>Called the Tower because he's a big guy
>wears a weird mask
Is he the LOTR version of Bane?
>>277277435
That mask disturbs the shit out of me. Same with the Mouth of Sauron and the way he looked.
Fuck Tolkien, let's talk about something a little more interesting.
>>277274653
why?
>>277277876
lion made fantasy world, the end
ok back to Tolkien
>>277267823
>>277267558
This is what really bothers me. The whole Tolkien stuff is mostly Elf wankery.
Oh, we have the mightiest beings beside god himself, who by their singing created the world itself. But here comes the elves and they create more powerful trinkets and beat the gods in hand-to-hand combat.
They really should be rulers of the whole world, but for some reason the age of Man dawns and they fuck off.
>>277277876
>See this coming out live action
>Loved my VHS cartoon version
>I guess, why not
>HOLY FUCK THIS IS METAL AS FUCK
3rd one was meh tho
>>277277876
'Ere, kitty kitty kitty.
>>277277953
Overuse of CGI, generally weaker plots, fucking too much with the source material etc.
The biggest problem is that The Hobbit never should've been a trilogy, but just one movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wAH0SEtgdI
rip
>>277277435
>>277278029
Maybe men will do the same shit
Or actually won't since we live in like what, the 7th or 8th Age already?
Silmarils was loaded with Elf bias
>>277278061
Post the Hothead too
>>277262306
Too bad Tolkien can't write for shit and his world feels hollow.
The books would be two thirds the length they are if Tolkein left the world to the imagination of the reader instead of describing every fucking thing they come across.
Another problem the world really suffers from is that without conflict with an evil force, it just feels so empty. It felt like everyone and everything lived to conflict the evil and without them they don't really have a purpose for being.
>>277278054
the cgi is purly opinion based
how were the plots weaker
"adding" to the source material based on Tolkien's notes
and i understand that point, maybe even 2 but 3 was to much
REMINDER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AV9W2ZdmjU
>>277278227
explain the Shire then.
>>277278234
>the cgi is purly opinion based
Someone post the golden statue melting. And someone post Legolas jumping from a collapsing bridge.
That's absolute shit.
>>277278054
I disagree. You'd never fit in all of the Hobbit in a single movie. Beorn, Barrel-Riders, Battle of Five Armies and all the shit in between? You'd have to half the number of dwarves just to fit it into 3 hours.
2 shorter films, on the other hand, would've done The Hobbit justice.
>>277265770
Gimli did.
Shadow of Mordor is fucking disgusting, but it has NOTHING on the atrociousness of The Hobbit films. You're a fucking moron.
>>277263572
>sandler movies
They've not done well for years, man.
Besides, the writing aside, Shadow ain't awful.
>>277278320
While I do know exactly where the Hobbit movies strayed from canon and have my own grievances with them, I don't want to get involved on yet another Hobbit internet fight. But simply because you asked for it, here.
>>277278320
thats not what your point was though, you said
>Overuse of CGI
this is not the same as 2 scenes with bad cgi
which the rest of the film had good cgi
>>277278234
Not him, but the romance between Elf Girl and Kili is the most bland, cliche shit ever, as is the girl's character. It's both an example of adding shit that shouldn't be added and poor writing.
>>277278280
>Is interesting when Saruman is leading a pack of armed lads to fuck the place up
>Becomes so boring that Frodo packs up and leaves
It was interesting at the start of the books because it felt like a sanctuary from all the evil shit that was happening, but by the end it just felt like a boring farming community.
>>277278507
>Shadow ain't awful.
>>277278259
>>277278259
>>277278259
>>277278524
> that webm
what the fuck
>>277262306
/tg/ a shit.
>>277278524
now yeah its rather cheesy, but what was "bad" about it? it fit rather well with Legolas's "style" to him
>>277278524
So this is what faggots are pissed about and not all the other stupid shit?
How is that any different from walking without weight, something what elves, like Legolas, did in the books?
>>277278554
but it was a rather minor thing that shouldnt take away from the whole trilogy, and it led now were
(i do agree i wasnt needed for the film, im just stating you shouldnt let a minor thing that lasted probably around 15 mins tops out of a 2 in a half - 3 hour movie ruin it)
>>277278259
>Okay, today I'm going to play Heroes Of Might And Magic: Dark Messiah.
>A lot of people say this is a good game, but we'll see.
>Oh, here's an orc.
>Left click, left click, left click. Oh and I kick him off a cliff. This combat is so deep.
>>277278054
>Overuse of CGI
This so much.
CGI isn't advanced enough to be used everywhere.
In the LOTR movies CGI was only used when it was absolutely necessary, in the Hobbit even the main antagonist is CGI.
>>277278463
Lore/story wise Mordor is far worse
Part 3 of the Hobbit films is literally a lore-rape film but the story is at least somewhat structured in that lore-rape. Mordor's literally just another generic video game story/series of events
>>277278796
But you also have to use the movement keys to go in for strikes, and simply doing light attacks will get you killed because the orc won't be stunned by your hits. And you also have to aim your attacks and your kick has to be in the direction of the cliff.
He is being a bit unfair but you can't apply his criticism to every game.
>>277278856
how is it lore-rape?
>>277278796
If you can destroy the most difficult area of a game by mashing your chin against a keyboard then no, it's not a good game.
>>277278234
The main issue with the Hobbit trilogy is that it just isn't that interesting. I watched both at the cinema with friends and neither time did they really stick with me.
I just left the cinema, thought "Oh, that was a thing that was a few hours long," then carried on with my day.
The pacing feels really bad in them too. I guess it's because they're trying to spread the actual plot of the Hobbit very thinly across three films. The added material just feels like it's there to make the films longer.
Another issue is that the films make the Hobbit way too dark IMO. When reading the book, I always imagined the adventure to be like some kind of heartfelt children's animation from the 1970's, but instead it's a series of big dumb action sequences split up by ominous things happening elsewhere.
>>277278752
It's not that he shouldn't be able to do it, it's that the CGI looks horrendous
>>277279063
>CGI looks horrendous
Oh, well that's true. The trilogy looks like shit with all the CGI.
>>277278796
>false equivalence
He turned his monitor off and killed everybody by mashing a single button.
Tolkien is shit, stop treating it as some kind of sacrosanct thing
The Hobbit movies and that shitty overshilled game are more than worthy of being associated with Tolkien
>>277279030
the hobbit was a kids story yeah, but there was definitely a dark feel to it
the whole business with the trolls, the goblins, Gollum, Merkwood and the Spiders, Smaug, and the final battle with 3 of the main characters dying
>>277279030
This.
The whole thing is really dramatic and kind of dark and serious. Of course, the book had serious things, but it was still overall a children's book, and relatively light. Jackson tries to achieve that by making it super serious all the time, then inserting a random acrobatics sequence in the middle of a heated and violent battle. I never knew when to take it seriously and when to laugh.
where did you guys get all this info from
is it really in all the books he wrote about middle earth?
>>277279297
>Tolkien is shit
oh fuck off
>>277278945
cuz he didn't like it
>>277279403
>All that awkward slapstick kid comedy in between serious shit going on
How much cocaine was he snorting?
>>277279516
It's Shakespearean, you know. Having tragedy and comedy, etc. etc.
