>3 years sober from WoW
>decide to give it a shot to see whats up
>start level 1 with no heirlooms
>literally killing every mob in less than 1 GCD
>get to level 10
>pick a spec, no hybridizing allowed
>only 4 spells at level 15
>6 at level 20
>dungeons are a joke, you dont even need a tank
>cant queue for tank if you arent specced for it either
>everyone just kinda lazily attacks mobs and basically strolls from boss to boss to get loot
>check my stats as warrior
>agility literally does nothing
>but still finding 2 hand swords with STR and AGI
>no reason or benefit to stance dance anymore
>all party buffs consolidated into one of 10 possible stat boosts
>hunters have no melee and can shoot while moving, no mana management either
>basically every class has a bottomless pit of mana
what the fuck happened
>>275641865
WoW like everything else got casual.
>>275641865
they made the game less tedious and slow?
>>275641865
Hunters have energy management which sucks.
>>275642072
why not make the game even faster by removing the leveling process all togeather and buying a level 90.
Better yet just give $15 a month to blizzard and skip the game altogeather. Than you can finish the game infinity faster
>>275642072
I bet you state everything as if it was a question?
>>275642072
without challenge, the game is no fun
basically, i press 4, then 1 and a thing dies and i get loot
ive played idle games more engaging than this
nothing feels like an accomplishment
jews happened
it used to be
>every 2 levels get new skills or improved versions
>every 10 levels you'd have to do some class quest or get some extra thing that would change the class considerably
>lvl 40 you'd get a fucking MOUNT holy shit, the amount of time getting to that level without it made it feel worth it, also saving gold encouraged better buying choices.
>instances felt like real dungeons and scaled well all the way into the 50s and 60s
>>275641865
>but still finding 2 hand swords with STR and AGI
This it what really bothers me, its just a perfect example that Blizz doesnt care anymore.
Look if you want to make everything easier, at least fix your fucking low level loot, jesus
oh my god
theres literally no berzerker stance
please tell me im wrong
>>275642445
>>275642445
>nothing feels like an accomplishment
atleast I'm not the only one feeling like this
>>275642046
WoW was always casual, that's why it became so popular. MMO's were literally for no life faggots. Once WoW came around anyone could pick up and play, no group required, no dedication required.
>>275643740
It's gone.
>>275641865
>play mage starting zone on a priv server with 2.4.3
>you can actually run out of mana
>live servers starting zone
>no downtime to casting
got less tedious but way easier
>>275642445
>without challenge
>levelling
sorry but leveling was NEVER EVER remotely challenging or hard unless you were a warrior up to TBC.
>>275643958
how can they gut fucking everything from this game?
how are they still alive with this much content taken out? are people paying $15 for a chat box and some combat animations?
>>275643892
>no group required, no dedication required.
So thats why it was so easy to get 40 man for a raid in vanilla.
They pulled that shit with WotLk, sure but BC and Vanilla?
>>275644098
you will see the challenge once it is taken away from you
seriously, hop on a 10 day trial, witness the mind numbing ease of leveling now
>>275641865
You faggots don't seem to get it so here it goes:
The game at low levels is easy as shit for two reasons.
1. To make people level up faster, meaning they have to buy the expansion. Which means more money for Blizzard.
2. Casual players don't want a challenge, Blizzard knows this and are bringing in the mad casuals money. Just look at Hearthstone.
It's so fucking simple.
>>275641865
>Complaining about the leveling experience for a game that is a decade old
>Judging an MMO based off of it's leveling experience
>>275644414
doesnt make it any less stupid
>>275644414
If they want money, they should set up at least 1-2 old school servers for vanilla, tbc and maybe wotlk.
They miss all the sweet dosh of nostalgia fags
>>275644548
Blizzard doesn't fucking care, they want money. And they are getting it by the truckloads.
I leveled a shaman from 90-100 after resubbing to play with new friends. Hadn't played in 5 years. Shaman don't actually have totems any more, or like you have a couple of big CDs that are "totems"
Now I'm leveling a rogue from scratch and I haven't put a third spell on my action bar yet. I just Mutilate twice and most mobs are dead, the ones that don't die from that wait another GCD for a 30 energy envenom.
But that said, I'm really having a blast with both characters. Enhance still has skill bloat (down from 24 in TBC to like 12 now, but still), resto is in a good place pve (well highmaul is harder on resto than anyone else because of the movement in most fights) and stealthing around all these revamped places and just generally being a rogue in a new world is really neat.
BUT
if given the choice I would take TBC wow. Even with the gating and attunement and kara wipes, I would take that over what we have now. Don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying this game, but it feels so fundamentally different from TBC that I'm not really thinking of it as WoW.
It must have been really interesting to play through the small changes that have culminated in such a difference from when I played. Like going from skillpoints to this talent tree thing? Losing resilience? yeah
>>275644632
My main is a level 100 Rogue. All I can say is dont bother. Feral druids do everything we can except vastly better. There is no reason to ever bring a rogue when you can have a feral druid.
>>275644507
>you just have to play it for 40 hours until it gets good
Really?
>>275644507
Not OP but, some of my fondest WoW memories came from leveling up, dicking around the world with buddies and exploring new places.
If leveling up is not important, why have level systems at all?
>>275641865
was playing a tbc private server with 2x rates, and even then i thought it was painfully slow. No one really cared about working together, only getting to level 70 to get to endgame shit for some reason, like there was any reason to.
I bought 30 days of play time with mists of pandaria for 5 bucks recently, and i'm having a god damned blast. I can handle everything on my own, leveling is nice and quick, i have access to dungeons but at every fucking level no one cares or wants to do them even on official, so i'm just grinding my way all the way to 90 so that i can run out of game time and realize that i have no reason to ever come back.
Monk is way more fun that warrior ever was, and fury warriors literally have no place end game.
>>275644918
>If leveling up is not important, why have level systems at all?
Well, you need to waste some of that subscriptions time, dont you?
>>275644223
As someone who played since TBC, leveling has not been a challenge. It was only 'hard' when you didn't know what the fuck you were doing.
>>275644761
and this is why the endgame is fucked, they broke it in cataclysm and even partially in wrath
no class provides anything unique to a raid. They dont. If you provide a buff, 5 other classes provide the same buff and they dont stack. Is one class better at everything because of FOTM balancing? Tough shit, you can't raid with that character
it's fucking dumb
in BC i could DPS as a survival hunter, even though i did considerably less than a BM hunter, but I could do it because I provided an assload of AP for everyone hitting the same target as me
>>275644918
Not saying I didn't enjoy progressing through raids with my guild back in vanilla, but I feel like people take the feeling of progression too seriously.
Like, it's the only form of genuine success that is available to them, so they only seek that, to say it like an armchair psychologist.
Leveling? Fuck that. PvP? Fuck that. Level cap, do raids.
>>275644593
People would play those for two months max and you know it. The only ones left after the initial nostalgia rush would be fifty neckbeards raiding MC every other night, not enough to cover costs of the server and fixing bugs.
>>275645264
I think you really underestimate people, I mean you DO know how many private servers are out there, right?
>>275645138
ive been playing since vanilla, friend.
compared to what it is now, it's a challenge. You click on a guy, press 2 spells, and he's dead. you can kill higher level elites with ease. you can run through 8 guys and come out okay.
remember when a murloc would run away and you'd have to take him down or risk 3 more coming to fight you? AND you had to manage your mana? Remember all the fights you ran from? All the times you died because you were'nt paying attention?
that doesnt happen anymore. You will ONLY die if you
a) AFK and take hits (I actually watched my shamman friend kill a guy with lightning shield alone)
b) try to take a group of elite mobs in a dungeon by yourself with no heals
it's just....there's no way to describe it EXCEPT to say that in comparison, it used to be challenging.
I just want to point out, as anyone who has played from Vanilla can attest, that the only "challenge" that was ever present in leveling was the presence of things like elite-filled zones around that world that we all learned to stay away from. Sure, I think the removal of those was a bad idea, but when you avoided the areas you knew had elites, very few of which were ever more than a deterrent to keep people from unfinished content, leveling was just as easy as it is today, except maybe you had to stop to eat or drink once in a while.
Also, I'd say that the leveling experience has actually gotten huge amounts better since Cata, because if nothing else, Blizzard has put a shitload of work into the actual questing and storylines of zones, how they progress and feel interesting without ever really making you feel like you're lost and have nowhere to go next, which was a huge fucking problem in Vanilla and TBC questing.
>>275641865
They literally changed nothing.
>>275644632
I have just started playing after a six year hiatus. Playing my 70 warlock for the first time since BC, and I totally agree that this feels like a different game.
I am enjoying it albeit there is a lot to get used to. I'm pretty casual now too since I'm not 18 and have real life responsibilities. Glad to see leveling is easier, and I all the expansion content from 70+ (Wrath, Cata, etc) is all new to me.
I'm not sure how I feel about the skill systems now. It's really simplified and the whole specialization system is a big change from BC/Vanilla. I see why they did it, but I'm not sure how I feel about the execution. I know the old talent tree still pigeon-holed most classes into specific builds anyway, but this doesn't feel like it takes away that feeling it just does it for you now.
>>275644098
This is just plain wrong. Visit a classic private server and try to level any class. It was very hard, because the game was designed to be a multiplayer game. There were a ton of group and elite quests- even normal quests were very hard if they involved humanoid enemies.
Mob camps/villages/caves were basicially little dungeons.
You HAD to play with others to do some quests.
>>275643892
This
I was playing Dark Age of Camolot when WoW came out
WoW was the most casual shit I had ever touched
>>275645138
Not him, but compared to what it is now, it fucking was a challenge. I'm speaking only for vanilla and TBC, and all these things apply to vanilla more:
Mobs could actually kill you. Now they don't deal enough damage to actually kill you, atleast not until you get to MoP content, where there's mobs that are supposed to hit hard.
You actually needed food and water to heal up between fights. Now you just regen both to 100% in seconds, or sit down to regen both to 100% in a few more seconds, depending on your level.
You actually couldn't just mindlessly pull shit. Now every single class has a high damage AoE spell made for exactly that.
You actually had a hard time killing mobs 3+ levels above you, depending on your class and most importantly, skill level. A good hunter would kill mobs 10 levels above him, a bad hunter would die to 2 mobs his own level after they kill his pet. Yes, that's an extreme example, but other classes were like this too, to an extent.
You had groupquests that actually required you to group up until you were good at your class. These same group quests would wipe people repeatedly if they suck.
Leveling actually required some thought put into it, reading quest texts, understanding where you have to go, knowing if it's something you can do alone, etc. All gone. Go to the quest marker lol
These are all things that made leveling slightly interesting, and not a complete fucking snorefest. And more importantly, it filtered out the complete fucking casuals. Now there's nothing like that, and the complete fucking casuals get matched into your instance runs.
All in all, it's still enjoyable because of the polish they have now, but MUCH less so, and the game suffered a lot overall.
>>275646337
If you really think leveling was hard at 60 you're probably retarded. You could easily level up without ever talking to anyone just as you can now, just ignore group quests, most of the time they weren't even worth the exp, they were just fun to finish for a story line or something.
>>275645597
>He stayed away from the elites.
Trying to solo elites in Vanilla WoW put hair on my chest and my balls.
>>275646102
they identified a legit problem (so many choices but only 1 real correct choice, leading to cookie cutter builds) but they completely fucked up solving it
>everyone is the same whenever they pick talents!
>LETS MAKE THEM ALL THE FUCKING SAME WHEN THEY PICK A SPEC
>>275643892
>>275644129
wow is extremely casual and always was
guildwars required thought
wow required nothing
Your trash game was never good and it killed MMO's for the rest of us. My beloved Star Wars Galaxies got raped into the ground because you faggots made that casual snoozefest popular.
Doing the ten day trial right now and I am for the most part thoroughly unimpressed with the new content. As a former addict I think I'm proud of myself now.
>>275646552
I'm not saying people didn't try and fight them, but come on. Running into level 55 elites in a level 30 zone, you didn't try and fight shit.
>>275646771
Well you had to click on the enemy, that's something.
>>275646884
i thought that way too
then i realized that i wasnt unaddicted, they just made it something different that sucks
i'd be addicted if it was similar to BC again
though perhaps not. Wildstar was really good honestly, I just cant sit there and play MMOs anymore
>>275644098
i once raced myself to be first 60 on a new server back in vanilla. It was fun not sleeping for a week. It was just a hunter so leveling wasnt too difficult but it took a lot of planning and some quests were actually pretty tough
>>275647020
>>275647020
>though perhaps not. Wildstar was really good honestly, I just cant sit there and play MMOs anymorethe struggle
>>275641865
I wouldn't judge leveling from 1-90 in WoD. Blizzard just makes it a mad dash until you get into some of the later content.
>>275646771
>wow is extremely casual
yes
>and always was
yes
Not to the extent it is today, though. It used to be acceptable, now it's just retardedly casual.
>>275641865
Nice shitpost since WoW was like that 3 years ago in MoP/Cata... Plus leveling content has been a joke since Wrath.
I'm feeling the itch to resub. Is the scroll of resurrection thing still available? Don't want to pay if I'll just get bored in a week. Thinking of making a Draenei shaman or a human rogue.
>>275646771
Basic WoW perhaps, but Vanilla dungeons and raids required strategy and effort.
Guild Wars always was about reaction skills and effectively using the few spells you get.
Theyve always been different.
>>275647248
Nope its gone
>>275641865
>literally killing every mob in less than 1 GCD
Kind of agree, but leveling in wow always was just formalities, the real game starts at full level.
>get to level 10
>pick a spec, no hybridizing allowed
Talents are for hybridizing. And hybrid classes were useless, aside from pallys for pvp.
>dungeons are a joke, you dont even need a tank
Same as the first one, but they should add all the dungeons in WoW with endgame difficulty for lvl 100
>cant queue for tank if you arent specced for it either
That should be to teach the new players that you can't tank stuff as other specs.
>check my stats as warrior
>agility literally does nothing
Agi was never good for a warrior
>no reason or benefit to stance dance anymore
Agree
>all party buffs consolidated into one of 10 possible stat boosts
Yeah, having party restrictions to get all the buffs was FUN right
>hunters have no melee and can shoot while moving, no mana management either
What kind of useless hunter used melee? Melee weapons for hunters were always just stat sticks, same as ranged weapons for every other class.
>basically every class has a bottomless pit of mana
Agree
>what the fuck happened
People change, the game evolves with them. Forcing people to beign basement dwellers to be good at a game is not a viable mechanic anymore. Still, you can find challenge in WoW.
>>275647248
Fuck that thing.
Fuck that noob trap!
>>275647324
>basically every class has a bottomless pit of mana
>Agree
You haven't played a healer after 90 have you?
![3373_anarchy-online-jaquette-ori[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FICrlz6.jpg "3373_anarchy-online-jaquette-ori[1].jpg")
>>275646771
Both WoW and GW are baby-mode compared to pic related.
>>275644761
This is bullshit. Paragon cleared every boss in mythic Highmaul with a rogue except the final one, because said rogue switched to a Shaman for broken aoe dps needed for that fight.
>>275647324
> the real game starts at max level
This mindset is what ruins loads of mmos. The rest are ruined by an utter lack of endgame content
>>275646552
Really?
Cause it was pretty damn easy as a Lock just fear spamming, life draining, and kiting.
>>275647265
>Vanilla PvE
>hard
Vanilla raiding was a literal grindfest until Nax and even than most fights forced you to grind the fuck outta resist gear.
>>275647020
>I just can't sit there and play MMOs anymore
I think that's the crux of it. That's why WoW has become more and more of a casual experience. The generation who started on WoW back in 2004 were 10 years younger and therefore had a lot more time on their hands. I was 17 when I first started WoW and had a fucking blast cuz I had all that time to play the game. Now trying it out at 28 I have WAY less time to dedicate to this kind of game.
It's a weird trade off that my gaming autism has a hard time accepting. I wanna play a genuine fun MMO kind of game, but I don't have the time to actually dedicate to that.
The fuckin' struggle.
>>275647324
>>check my stats as warrior
>>agility literally does nothing
>Agi was never good for a warrior
yeah but when i got a stat from random questing gear, it still helped. now it's actually useless
AND THE QUESTING GEAR STILL MIXES STR AND AGI
>>275646337
>Mob camps/villages/caves were basicially little dungeons.
That's what I miss the most.
Also grouping up to take out elite mobs. Remember Big Game Hunters?
>>275647582
If that statement is incorrect, then why are you complaining about a lack of endgame content in most games?
>>275647501
Game was too clunky for me could never get into it, i always listened to gridstream though.
>>275647296
Fuck. Well maybe I'll just make a starter account and see if it grabs my interest.Who am I kidding, I'll probably spend my time in Goldshire.
>>275647324
>What kind of useless hunter used melee? Melee weapons for hunters were always just stat sticks, same as ranged weapons for every other class.
this is how i know you're bad. Melee had it's uses in PvP. If someone got close, you used it to wingclip and slow them down, lure them into traps, or straight up crit a mage with mongoose strike for funsies. It also caused you to have to manage your position relative to the person you were fighting. Now you dont have to, you can shoot and run all day long with no drawbacks. There's no dead zone, no melee zone. if you're fighting a mage, you just stand there and shoot at them. they dont try to get close to remove your DPS because theres no point
if you had played hunter before cata, you'd know that. even before wrath too
>>275647324
>Agi was never good for a warrior
Agi gave warriors crit, which has always been their best stat. Back in the day when only a few pieces had Crit%+ it was helpful to get any Str+Agi gear you could.
>>275647909
>crit
>always been warrior's best stat
My name's Armor pen, and I'm the real best stat.
Actually a big point to buying accounts at lvl 90 isnt so much to do it faster but to appeal to bots which make up a massive number of players. They ban your grinded up bot so what do you do? You go buy a level 90 and bot that. Faster for you to get right into it and more money for blizzard. Yes it looks like they are appealing to casual crowd but the reality of is that they are appealing to the botters who really put the money into the game.
Whats better?
A) some kid playing casually from expantion to expansion
B)some assmunch buying 10 accounts at lvl 90 each and running them 24/7 botting
See the point I am making?
>>275646838
Haha. Suck it faggot.
>>275648028
>My name's Armor pen, and I'm the real best stat.
What a fucking shitfest that was in WotLk.
It was THE stat for every phys damage dealer
>>275647324
>Real game starts at full level
I always hated that mindset. Like, the game is work until the very end, when the game feels more like work cuz you're just grinding shit still...
I know the game feels like a grind sometimes, but god damn I felt like max level the grind became even more mundane
>>275648046
Is the point that you're coming up with your own theory and stating it as fact?
>>275648154
Not really. They used to talk more about this. Its like runescape at one point. It was the whole point in "fair pricing". It was to deal with bots not to help players.
>>275648107
>being proud of the death of video games
Typical WoW player. Eat shit and die.
>>275647496
No I didn't, it's different now? I still heard that complain so I assumed that they haven't changed that.
>>275647582
WoW was ALWAYS about endgame content. Leveling your first character was always fun and magical but the rest were just tedious.
>>275647651
Because those items are from vanilla, when the stats were different. Even if AGI do something now, 2 points of AGI wouldn't change nothing.
>this is how i know you're bad. Melee had it's uses in PvP. If someone got close, you used it to wingclip and slow them down,
If you got close as a hunter, you had to get far. Guess who's the baddie.
>>275647909
What kind of moron stacked agi to a warrior? And he complained about quest items, which gave you 2 points of agi
>Back in the day when only a few pieces had Crit%+ it was helpful to get any Str+Agi gear you could.
Back in the day was strength, attack power or armor penetration bud.
>>275648147
i had more fun in vanilla wow starting on a new server and leveling up, grouping with strangers for difficult elite quests and simply seeing everyone progress than i had grinding BWL or Molten Core.
>>275648507
Probably because MC is one of the worst raids in existence.
>>275647605
Unless you're in Paragon you haven't killed that boss yet. Last phase you need to do a ton of aoe. The shaman did significantly more damage than anyone else in the raid because of how broken fire nova is.
>>275641865
After getting so tired with WoW I figured I was just over the MMO formula, but I decided to try the FFXIV trial on a whim and found it really enjoyable. Not going to sub right away but it was nice having so many quests right away, seeing so many NPCs with their own dialogue and being able to explore the world. Like what WoW used to have.
>>275646337
I remember the zone with elite trolls in hinterlands in vanilla that was awesome with a group. it really was tougher than 5 mans today.
>tfw the epic shield drops and you win it
>>275647659
>STV
>People in general constantly asking for and trading the Green Hills of Stranglethorn pages that they needed
>Groups forming constantly for the elite quests
>PvP shenanigans going on in the middle of it all
Good times.
>>275649004
Don't forget the mini Arena.
>>275648614
As a priest i still liked it because i wanted that eye and enjoy the best goddamn quest we had back then. Also it helped i had a pocket mage who supplied me with pots and shit in exchange for power infusing (i think that was the name of the discipline skill) him during raids so he could get dem mad crits so i never really had to prepare for anything. I made discipline priest popular on our server.
I checked during a trial and my priest is still wearing his T2 with benediction.
>>275647853
>they dont try to get close to remove your DPS because theres no point
Honing in on hunters was one of the thrills of fighting hunters. Also, you had to exploit their dead zone if you were a mage in order to survive. And yeah, mongoose strike hurt like fuck.
>>275649004
>booty bay
>one shot a low level then feign death
>>275648257
>Because those items are from vanilla, when the stats were different. Even if AGI do something now, 2 points of AGI wouldn't change nothing.
this happened yesterday. you know, 2 expansions AFTER they completely re-did all of vanilla, including items
it was a rare cape from RFC
http://www.wowhead.com/item=82882
there's also this axe i found with AGI on it. not sure if enhancement shammys can make use of it, but they'd be the only single class spec that can use it in that case
http://www.wowhead.com/item=872
>>275649071
Arrr, Me Hearties! I be havin' some extra Treasure that i be givin' away at the Gurubashi Arena! All ye need to do is collect it is open the chest I leave on the arena floor!
>>275649215
>gadgetzan
>open portal to theramore
>one shot lowbie and take portal
Not as efficient, but it was fun.
>wow was the casual alternative to most mmos of the time
This is somewhat true but not a great justification for what the game has become. It used to strike a good balance and some areas and quests would occasionally provide an interesting challenge, dungeons (even the leveling ones) would require you to know how to play your class and definitely couldn't be facerolled. The game started out at an acceptable level of difficulty and has become way too casual.
>I bet you don't even mythic raid
Why bother playing the game for challenging content when I have to suffer through 99% of the games content being insultingly easy.
>>275649493
So basically you're saying you're shit and want to be good at easy stuff and don't want to attempt actual hard stuff? Nothing pre-raid at any level cap has been hard, you're just bad and like to think you're good when you kill some random fucking elite every retard has killed.
>>275648138
Paladins
It's not just WoW, the entire structure of how MMO's are designed has changed and WoW just evolved with it for better or worse.
RPG's in general are becoming casualized since the audience is becoming broader. It blows but it's not just WoW.
Games like skyrim had just as much of a hand in ruining the RPG genre as any other game. It won't go back as long as it's making money, and it makes a lot of it.
>people liked vanilla
>poor class balance
>not enough quests (had to grind or run dungeons)
>couldn't even port to dungeons
>class skill bankrupt you
>no mounts until level 40
>had to look at ugly, mismatched gear
People will defend this garbage
>>275649798
Ob boy, paladin just shat phys damage right?
The only reason to take a ret paladin over a full arpen feral/warrior was because of replenishment, blessings or maybe some wonky ass boss tactic
>>275649891
Then they ruined it with raids. shame that.
>>275646343
Your neckbeard is showing.
>>275650202
What do you mean? Raids are better than they have ever been. Mythic is harder than anything from vanilla and different difficulties lets everyone enjoy them.
>>275650474
I am talking about Vanilla. I hated it when they forced raids in with insanely OP gear.
>>275649717
No he's saying why bother with the fucking sweet candy center if you have to go through 666 layers of shit?
>>275649717
how butthurt do you have to be to get THAT out of what he was saying
>>275650672
So leveling for a few days, then gearing up for a week is 666 layers of shit? Sounds like you're just scared of a real challenge. Hell you don't even need gear for CMs and I bet neither of you have done those.
But keep going on how grouping up for someone like mor'ladim was a challenge and how you're so good for completing ST/BRD.
>>275650657
>insanely op
>the best raid weapons were only ~50% better than the best dungeon weapons
>>275651039
>leveling for a few days
Sorry buddy some of us have jobs and shit.
>>275651039
>real challenge
>hell you don't even need gear
>>275651173
Yeah ok. Try fighting someone in naxx gear with dungeon gear.
>>275649891
There were more than enough quests, you would just have to travel to them.
Porting to dungeons just supported people not going out in the world at all
Level 40 made it feel like an achievement.
>>275649891
So what if a few things were improved when lots of the fun was gutted?
>poor class balance
This is true. However, so many classes feel homogenized and the lack of class specific quests makes you feel less unique.
>not enough quests
Simply not true.
>couldn't even port to dungeons
That could be a pain when you're halfway across the world but at least the dungeon was fun. It required teammwork and you often ended up being friends with the people you played with. Now you might as well be playing by yourself. Nobody communicates because it's not necessary. You just play with people from different servers and steam roll the dungeon.
>class skill bankrupt you
You mean respecing? Or just buying skills? Either way, gold felt like it actually meant something.
>no mounts until level 40
It was a pain to run everywhere, but at least the cost of mounts made it an accomplishment. Also, class specific mounts had quests and felt meaningful.
>had to look at ugly, mismatched gear
Yet gear actually mattered.
WoW took a turn for the worse, despite some of good additions.
>>275651297
Try fighting someone in highmaul gear with dungeon gear
>>275644098
Leveling up paladins and priests was extremely annoying when the game came out.
>>275651556
WHY ARE YOU STILL GOING ON ABOUT WOD I AM TALKING ABOUT VANILLA YOU STUPID MUTHA CUCKER
>>275651576
>Leveling up paladins
I still remember getting Sulthraze for my paladin.
I dont care if the item wasnt made for me, I felt like a boss back then,
>>275651210
Are you retarded or something?
>>275651330
>Nobody communicates because it's not necessary. You just play with people from different servers and steam roll the dungeon
This so much. Describes my brief two month return to panda land, after quitting early cataclysm after playing since vanilla.
>Nobody out in the world
>Everyone sitting in cities
>Those people are not even from my server
>Nobody talks in the dungeons, just pulls and aoe's.
Quickly convinced me that I don't need WoW anymore. I was essentially playing by myself.
>>275651576
>Priests
Just tagged along with a warrior and do any content.
>>275645515
Vanilla was different from even TBC.
I played Vanilla on release and I was the first Warrior on my server to 60. I don't remember exactly, but I think it took me around a month to do by basically playing as much as possible whenever I wasn't in school. I basically only slept 2-3hrs a night, went to school, and played WoW until I hit it.
I remember after I quit hearing about people hitting 60 in a weekend, or even in a single day. Shit's changed.
>>275641865
They wanted the Guild Wars 2 audience.
>>275641865
The fuck did you expect, OP?
When I was playing WoW, I was raging at constant huge power level gaps between items from newest expansion and items from previous expansions. Then I realised this game is only about current expansion and that all previous expansions are literally dead and everyone just fucking skips them in any way possible - xp for next level is reduced as well as monsters hp and you're supposed to move through them as fast as fucking possible. I always laugh at WoWfags, saying their char is worth probably around 500$, because they have a couple of 90 level chars. No, it isn't worth shit, since getting to that level nowadays is a matter of fucking weeks or maybe even less - considering until recently Scroll of Ressurection was boosting chars to level 85.
I'm surprised they aren't actually boosting you to level 90 when you buy the newest expansion, like automatically. They should do it, since no one gives a fuck about old content anyway.
>>275651698
So it's a problem that hasn't been solved? I'm not sure I understand your point.
>>275649891
>poor class balance
Because its so awesome now?
>not enough quests (had to grind or run dungeons)
3hard5u
>couldn't even port to dungeons
get a warlock
>class skill bankrupt you
You mean resets that actually cost something?
>no mounts until level 40
*insert argument*
>had to look at ugly, mismatched gear
People will defend this garbage, and you'll defend your dress-up-idle-in-townTHEGAME.
>>275651884
Well thats obvious seeing how Ashran is WvW form GW2
>>275651039
>don't need gear for CMs
try doing UBRS CM with a 615ish group lol
>>275651765
>you will never again make friends with your dungeon party members
>you will never level up and start looking for people to do the next dungeon and queue up with someone you had been with before
>>275641865
>>pick a spec, no hybridizing allowed
hybdrizing is built-in into every spec
>>agility literally does nothing
okay, youre trolling
>>no reason or benefit to stance dance anymore
you enjoyed that?
>>hunters have no melee and can shoot while moving, no mana management either
you enjoyed that?
>>all party buffs consolidated into one of 10 possible stat boosts
there are no more party buffs now than there were in classic
>>basically every class has a bottomless pit of mana
you wont see mana bars drop until you get into WoD dungeons
The fucking dungeons take seconds to do, 10 seconds to kill a boss. That's the only thing I'm really pissed off about.
>>275651330
>tfw I have the warlock mount achievement
>6 spells at level
>as a warrior
sounds like how it's been, those are only the spells for one spec, if yo uchanged specs some would be different
though I think WoW sucks now too, it's probably me though
>four more months until new content
>>275652207
>3 days until sub runs out
>>275644098
This nigga just said he was a warrior in the OP. Read, motherfucker.
>>275641865
>basically every class has a bottomless pit of mana
If you're not a cleave best strategy against druids and priests is to have them oom first.
No fucking idea what you are talking about.
Go play some actually good MMOs, like EverQuest 1 & 2 or Dark Age of Camelot.
>>275646771
WoW indeed has always been casual-tier.
And GW1 was not a MMO.
>>275651992
And yet most Guild Wars 2 audience wants old WoW or Guild Wars 1.
>>275644593
Are you retarded?
Not many people actually give a shit about old school servers, people would play them for a month or 2 just for nostalgia but then get bored and they would be barren again, who thinks its fun to go to an old outdated game that will never get a update again.
>they removed bubblehearting
Am I the only guy who actually enjoys going out in the world and questing? I've done every zone since TBC and got the achievements for each one. Seems like everyone dicks around AFK in town or in their garrisons, while I'm questing and occasionally queueing up for shit.
As a person who's never played WoW, can someone explain to me what made old WoW so good? Pretty much every WoW thread I've ever seen on /v/ is 'new wow sucks, old wow was better'. What did they ruin?
>>275652408
I used to but Cata ruined the original quests
>go to stonetalon as horde
>all quests gone
t-thanks.
>>275652414
Nostalgia.
>>275646771
I'll never play a game like GW1 ever again.
>>275652516
Nah man those vanilla quests were tedious as fuck. You'd be a fool to not realize that.
>>275652387
Glyph of righteous retreat
>>275652091
>>275652091
>okay, youre trolling
pic
>you enjoyed that?
YES, thats how fucking challenge works. It separates the good players from the shit players. It doesnt matter how often you played and how good your gear was, if you couldnt stance dance, you would get fucked by someone that could. Same with hunters, if you couldnt kite properly, you were fucked and everyone took advantage of you
i cant even fucking believe you're in favor of dumbing this shit down
>>275645463
And how many of them are well known ?
Actually,never mind that. How many of them actually are not populated by poorfags who just can't pay subs ?
>tfw play wow just for the world and lore
I just like exploring
>>275652387
there's a glyph for it
>>275652617
Tedious quests in classic were better than railroaded single-player oriented quests in the current state of wod.
>>275652414
the obtuse and difficult nature of old wow made it feel more satisfying when you accomplished something because you had to work harder at it. New wow makes it so everyone can get everything super easy so no one feels left out. As wow got bigger Blizzard saw more and more people complaining that it was hard for them to do things other players had already done or could accomplish. In order to retain subs Blizzard made it easier which was a smart move but kinda sucked the soul out of the game that people playing since vanilla had become accustomed to. Sites like WoWhead and heavy modding did this as well, there used to be a very wild west feel to wow but now its just a rpg with some multiplayer parts to it
>>275650441
I'm actually pretty built and clean shaven
Stopped playing MMOs after highschool
>>275652617
I loved them especially Hillsbrad psychotic forsaken quests. poor farmers. kek.
>tfw setting the undead elite on southshore before it was nerfed to death
>>275652414
The pacing was a lot slower in old WoW, now you level up too fast, reach maximum cap, and find out there's actually not that much content or depth when you've reached end game since every form of PvE content gets obsleted by Raids.
>Dungeons are pointless
>Crafting is pointless
>Dailies are pointless
>Your garrison is pointless
>World farming/exploring is pointless
>The only thing that allows you to progess at end-game are raids, so that's the only thing worth doing
For anyone who enjoys an MMO outside of PvE raiding, do not play WoW.
>>275652387
There is a minor glyph that increases your heartstone channel by 50% while in bubble. Palas are ridiculously good right now except for holy which falls behind a bit.
Expect retribution nerfs to the ground while hunters still top everything.
>>275652325
Is EQ 2 actually good?
WoW will serve me well up until January, then I can finally enjoy the definitive version of GTA5.
>>275652792
>retain subs
>wow numbers start slipping after they casualize everything
>>275652414
Nothing made it better, it's just blind nostalgia
>>275652978
What do you think, since I am recommending it?
>>275653027
Does GTA 5 have a lot of exploration and shit to do?
>>275652879
>do that quest during late vanilla
>so much build up to unleashing an undead god on a town
>guard aggros from 200 feet away and 1 shots it
y-you too
>>275653030
The fact the made the game more accessible in the first place is why it jumped up to 12 million plus though. People just left because nothing really changed for years after TBC
>>275652387
>tfw some higher level faggots tries to gank you and you just bubble-hearthstone while /laughing at them and playing the small /violin.
Paladins simply are the best class.
>>275653101
Is it STILL good though?
>>275652414
My gripes I can think of right now
-There were no automated tools for group finding so you had to socialize with your realm to get anywhere
-Questing was way less linear, nowadays you're handheld from one quest to another
-Group content has been stripped to bare minimum, the very few group quests in the game can be soloed. Way back when you NEEDED at least a tank and a healer with you for group quests in the world.
-Anything outside mythic raiding (the hardest mode out of the 3 available, which I find stupid) is piss easy, especially 5 mans. Modern 5 mans are nothing but AOE fests that are over in 5 minutes with even fucking healers pulling groups of mobs because they pose no threat whatsoever. And I still think adding difficulty modes for raids was stupid, if you can't progress through a raid then too fucking bad.
>>275648681
Dude,FFXIV is exactly the carbon copy of WoW,except with a lot less things to do(the one that matter,anyways) and shittier pvp.
Endgame raid was literally weekly hop from boss to boss,you even need to spend less time in the instance itself than WoW. You're in for one great disappointment if you're thinking it would be any different. Heck,even the crowds itself are the rejected from WoW,easily identifiable because they all play and talk like an elitist retard who parse all the time.
>>275653117
yeah they ruined a lot of the content. cata just removed it all completely.
>>275653114
Yeah they added a bunch of stuff with the ps4/xbone versions. Will add more with the definitive version on PC.
>>275653068
only wrathbabbies and beyond believe this.
the game had a real sense of community because it was harder to level up. dungeons required effort to get done and you formed connections with people on your server that did dungeons with you. Having a guild helped get dungeons done more often, but you frequently found groups on /lfg channel. It let you know who was good, who was bad, who was a troll, who was a faggot, who was nice, ect. It was like playing with actual people.
I cannot even begin to remember any of the names ive played with since Wrath. it's just lfg finder party member #103592. 90% of the time, no one says anything, and beyond the initial dungeons of an expansion release no one says more than whose job is whose ("mage poly adds, ill tank boss." thats it).
dont even try to argue that it wasnt better
nostalgic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYIVK7XJJEk
>>275653474
>I cannot even begin to remember any of the names ive played with since Wrath.
i do because LFG didn't come about until ICC came out
>>275649891
>poor class balance
Classes were decently balanced, unless you meant specs, in which case yes. That part did suck for people wanting to be Feral, Boomkin, etc. It was kind of balanced out by how amazing hybrids were in PvP though. Shadow Priests and both DPS Shamans absolutely dominated back in the day.
>not enough quests (had to grind or run dungeons)
There actually were enough quests, people just didn't know where they were because the world was so huge (more on this later) and there weren't as many resources back in the day to find everything. Which is a big issue with MMOs nowadays, everything is already known by the time of release because beta testers and data miners have already found everything it put it up on a million different websites.
>couldn't even port to dungeons
Made the world feel much more alive and larger. Was getting to SM as Alliance or running to Dire Maul from Ironforge a hassle? Obviously. But for the sake of a better world I'd go through that all again in a heart beat. I'd end up running out of room for this post if I started going into stories about how much shit I've had happen on the way to dungeons and raids, so I'm just not going to start.
>class skill bankrupt you
Professions were actually important back in the day, especially gathering for money. So many people went Herb/Mining and Skinning, and for good reason. Gold actually meant something.
>no mounts until level 40
See everything I said about a larger world two points up. Most classes had a way to move around faster by level 40 anyway, and it made getting a mount an achievement to be happy about.
>had to look at ugly, mismatched gear
Only if you were a high end raiding DPS warrior. Gear mostly matched, especially if the tier gear was good for you.
>>275653273
>Group content has been stripped to bare minimum
To think there used to be whole outside areas with nothing but elite monsters inside
>>275653420
Still laugh hard at the Cata rework. They put huge amounts of time and effort into redesigning Azeroth and everyone just flys over it or skips it to run dungeons.By laugh I mean weep bitterly
>>275653203
>hand of edward the odd on my shaman
>pvp server constantly getting ganked
>people very rarely got to kill me because when the mace procced i could cast insta hearthstone
>pissing off so many people that tried to gank me like i was some rare mob
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJESm-assss
Time to post it
>>275649004
>>Groups forming constantly for the elite quests
This is still a thing at level 100. Daily quest and world bosses always make reason to team up with strangers.
The only two things I would change in WoD is to make every zone as detailed as Draenor, and add raids/instances similar to BRD/BRS in terms of length and complexity.
>>275647552
They probably took a rogue into the raid because of the one single buff they have which helps in a very small way and even then a feral druid was probably much better dps than said rogue anyway
>rogues are shit and will forever be shit
>>275653681
Cata was so bad. Just felt like a 1/3 of an expansion.
>>275645138
That's exactly the thing though. You had to, AT LEAST, know what you were doing.
Nowadays you can go in there and "hurr durr" your way to max level just as easily as someone that knows what they're doing.
>>275653773
The new find a group/create a group for anything seems like a brilliant idea.
>>275653474
Man, honestly I can't see it still being around if it was like that still.
I farmed my ass off and sunk a shit ton of time into the game for meager rewards in vanilla.
Now I can experience a whole bunch of stuff at once quickly instead of spending 3 hours staring at a jungle farming shit in Un'Goro or 4 hours assembling a group for fucking Stratholme
>>275653232
It's f2p, so you can try it out, if you want to.
I still have an old (running since 2007) Necromancer that I play every now and then as preferred status. I am not a hardcore raider, never been, so I'm not sure what the exact limitations are, but it's definitely playable without a sub. Bein in the low f2p-tier is kinda shitty in terms of inventory space, but it's sufficing to get an idea how the game works.
As for the history of the game, I wouldn't say it has changed fundamentally, it just grew more and more complicated over time with character customization that makes PoE look like child's play. For the worse and better.
However, unless you play a summoner class, the game is geared towards groups.
And if you just love exploring, then EQ2 is your MMO.
>>275653608
LFG finder was released in BC actually, it just wasnt that good
>>275653907
>And if you just love exploring, then EQ2 is your MMO.
Sounds based. Once I get bored of WoW I'll give it a go, thanks m8
>>275653519
>mfw I had never played an MMO before and thought it was going to be some awesome RPG game where I could roleplay as a fucking pirate
Yeah, I sat at lvl 40 on my Tauren druid and wondered what the fuck I got into.
All the while my friend was raiding stratholme.
Quickly woke up and found out that competitive online was the only form of online. Such a shame since it took out a lot of the fun stuff.
>>275653474
Yeah it was so fun spamming for 2 hours to get a group and then when you are finally ready and head out there, somebody has to go to eat dinner or some shit so 3 of you stand waiting at the dungeon while another tries to get a 5th back at a city.
I played MMO's that have no LFG, they get tedious as fuck when you have to spend so long getting a group together just for a dam dungeon
>>275641865
the good
>1 char, all jobs/crafting
>challenging endgame
>skill required
>beautiful armor designs
lacks
>interesting gear stats (slated to change in xpack)
>unbroken world (fucking ps3 shit console limitations)
>real 24man raid content
>interesting character development (no real skill trees)
autists will say
>hurrdurr 2.5gcd
weave buffs/abilities between your main skills, it quickly becomes 1.25gcd OR play ninja, where you work with 2s gcd and still weave in abilities between
So is Corecraft dead? The website has been down for at least the past week.
>>275641865
>3 years sober
>be surprised at things that were there 3 years ago
I don't understand.
>>275641865
While I agree with literally everything else you just said hunters could always shoot while moving.
>>275654067
CC has always been vaporware
>>275653905
>spending 3 hours staring at a jungle farming shit in Un'Goro or 4 hours assembling a group for fucking Stratholme
I'd much rather do that than sit inside my garrison and do shit that's over in minutes and doesn't feel like anything. At least putting in that much effort towards something made the reward taste that much better.
>>275653751
Everytime
>>275653474
The only effort dungeons required was a mage for cc and a group that willpower to get a group together. That isn't real difficulty.
>>275654137
I don't think they could cast attacks while moving like they can now
>>275641865
>hunters have no melee
why would you play a melee hunter??
>>275653965
No problem.
EQ2 is enormous and you get a decent amount of discovery XP, which is something I like a lot.
All/most/some (not sure, really) magic classes have invisibility spells, so you can go sneak around areas that are ~10 levels above you and nick that sweet disco XP.
Plus, the areas are really nicely designed.
Common lands is still my favourite zone in any MMO ever.
game is decent but Ashran sucks donkey balls. And garrisson are too slowly and painful4me
>>275654232
Good for you. Why don't you go bang your dick with a hammer for a while. When you get off to it it can feel so much more rewarding than getting off by just jacking off normally.
>>275653912
the porting mechanic of LFG wasn't implemented until wrath
>>275654232
I want to say that groups were less likely to disband aswell. Now you're probably better off looking for a new group instead of trying again.
>>275654335
There's player housing isn't there? What's that like?
I vaguely remember trying it out but not properly, and exploring the dark elf(?) city, and that was fucking cool/.
>>275643005
>tier spells
>mount 40
>new warlock pet every 10 spells until felhunter
nostalgia rising man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0hqGinjWsc
I miss being scissor, rogue in MOP was a joke and so are they now in WOD.
>>275641865
Leveling became an absolute joke sometime in WOTLK or Cata, don't remember. My enthusiasm about the game went with it. Quit in MoP.
>>275654496
Rogues were only a joke in 5.04-5.2. We were unstoppable death gods in 5.3 and 5.4 again.
>>275654496
rogue hasn't been good since wrath, when health got to bloated values they didn't balance burst damage with it
>>275654496
I will forever be a mushroom even though blizz has hated us since the last half of TBC
>>275654447
Everybody gets their own house and you can put a huge load of shit into it.
Give me a second and I'll make a screenshot of my house.
It also functions as a way to sell your stuff on the market.
The negative thing about it is that they're all secluded, unlike in DAoC, where all houses are actually showing up next to eachother.
>>275654640
I can't wait to see people bitch about unstoppable death god rogues in 6.2 onwards.
>>275654496
I remember when Rogue was the most played class in the game
Now no one plays Rogue. I'm surprised when I see more than two in AV/IoC
>WoW nostalgia thread
>"it was better when I was thirteen :)"
OF COURSE IT FUCKING WAS
YOU WERE A DUMB KID AND YOU DIDN'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT SHIT
GOD
DAMN
>>275651330
>>not enough quests
>Simply not true.
What is Silithus, you dense motherfucker?
>>275654324
muh nostalgia
>>275644507
>>Judging an MMO based off of it's leveling experience
Yes I'd say this is pretty reasonable considering new players will spend at least a month getting to max level assuming not a total neet.
>>275654813
Stop assuming everyone was thirteen
why they have removed innervate, mana tide totem etc? in hero raids my mana goes down so fucking quick and all have is a shity mana pot
>>275649215
>ambush lowbie then vanish
>>275654820
Silithus has always been shitlithus.
>>275654813
>I don't read threads I post in
>>275654716
>warlocks now
>no utility
>worst damage
What's the point of this class?
>>275642046
Look, i hate WoW in its current state, but don't go acting like Hardcore is the way to go.. look what happened to Wildstar
I finished my attunement in Wildstar and jumped into raiding, and god was it abysmal due to how fucking hard it is. Every 3 seconds theres a chance for a raid wipe, meaning if someone lagged for ~1sec your whole raid wipes. Theres 0 room for error, the game is unforgiving as fuck and it was in no way 'hardcore' and 'challenging' it was utter bullshit.
and that moment when the trash has more hp than the fucking raidboss, it took 15mins to down a miniboss that just spams adds for you to deal with every ~2min
I fucking hated that game for trying so hard to be vanilla wow, it was cancer.
>>275644098
>ITT faggot yong shits that never played Vanilla or TBC
At lvl 52, it took my holy priest 1 holy fire and 8 smites to down the mobs in Felwood. I could only cast 12 smites before oom. I had to drink water cause my priest wouldn't have enough mana to fight two mobs back to back and he also couldn't kill two mobs at once.
Your post pisses me off. I was just passing by and noticed how others pointed out your stupidity and even me, a person that has no interest in WoW and hasn't played since 2009 had to come in here to let you know, you're a little piece of fucking shit.
Do current players in Wow even remember how the defias mage would 3 shot everyone lower than lvl 14?
>>275654894
Because uniqueness is a sin
>>275654717
>The negative thing about it is that they're all secluded, unlike in DAoC, where all houses are actually showing up next to eachother.
Eh, I can live with that.
IIRC LOTRO kind of did that, where the houses would be in a different zone but next to each other.
Wonder what LOTRO is like now. I used to really like it, especially for the musical instruments. This was back in 2006-7 or so though.
>>275654930
There hasn't been a point to them for years, Blizzard stripped out everything that made them unique and gave it to other classes or removed it whole sale
>>275654640
this. until 5.2 I was awful, 5.4 I started to hit top 3 hell sometimes I hit top damage cause of shit like 55% haste now I get kicked from groups and get denied from most for Highmaul. shit sucks man
Abusing WoW's 10-day trial system I've managed to build a Shaman from level 1 to something like 65 over the course of this past year I guess. You can hit 40 in like a week anyway.
Anyway, Shaman's are just a lot more boring now. Since stat restrictions are in I get no benefit from stats like Strength even though I'm Enhancement. Totems are a joke now and most of them are about as good as a distraction. Everything dies fast. There is no challenge except for PvP. My only driving goal is to reach the level cap, after only doing it once to 60 with a warlock in Vanilla.
>>275642278
>he doesnt know about buying level 90's
>>275654802
Rogue is second last along shamans at 7% last is monks at 5%
Hunter 14% paladin 12% warrior 11%
>>275655016
its pretty much the same. pay2win. almsot no quests for lv 20+ unless subbed.
>>275654869
Alright? And 99% of new players aren't looking for some tedious experience with leveling. They just want to enjoy themselves, and leveling in WoW is far better in both categories than it was back in vanilla through wrath for 99% of people. And hell, the only people that don't like the newer leveling are people that want it to take months or find the idea of dying because your class is shit at leveling appealing in some way.
Note: leveling was never hard for some classes, like hunters, locks and mages. Ever.
>Not playing a 0.1x EXP private RO server to separate yourself from the casuals
I don't even know anymore
>>275655007
bad game design and balance does not equal a challenge
that's like video games 101 mang
>>275655052
You're talking out of your ass, warlocks were objectively the best in terms of design among all classes in MoP, they were OP as fuck because lolsnapshotting 100% crit/25k int trinkets, but very well designed overall.
>>275642278
>why not make the game even faster by removing the leveling process all togeather and buying a level 90.
Oh, but they did.
90% of nostalgia stories I hear from long time players is ganking lowbies or being ganked as a lowbie
how can that shit keep you entertained, it's like squashing worms or something
>>275654894
You could read their exhaustive explanation why. Basically, it made healing more about how many mana cooldowns your raid had instead of proper mana management. You just spammed heals and then called for innervates/mana tides/ hymns/etc. Thats not the healing model they want now, so they removed them.
>>275655214
>implying playing a slightly less casual version of a casual game makes you any less of a casual
>>275654717
>>275654447
>>275655016
A friend of mine still plays LOTRO, but I don't know if he's a sub (probably) or a preferred.
I can't remember where my fucking house is...
>>275655267
Ganking was fun if you had some people who could come help you out. Otherwise not so much.
>>275655267
The same way really shitty tv shows are looked back on fondly now. Its called nostalgia.
>>275655371
You German m8? Is there a big German community?
Just had a look for EQ2 and watching a German guy atm
>>275655157
>pay2win
I don't remember it being pay2win
>>275655052
This is bullshit. Even now, with them crappier than they were in MoP, they are still plenty unique. I would love to show me another class like demo.
>>275654930
Clearly you don't know how to play your warlock. please stop putting the rest of us to shame.
>>275655234
I'm just talking about raw dps nobody gives a shit about that. I meant there identity as a class doesn't exist anymore because needing to use spells that don't do damage hasn't been needed this Wrath
>>275655525
well you can buy stat upgrades
>>275655141
Hunters are too damn fucking good. Tons of strengths and no weaknesses. Good at literally everything a dps could possibly be good at. Its sickening.
At least blizzard designed a lot of fights with bitch duty mechanices that basically scream "make your hunter do this". Serves them right.
