What can possibly make PC gaming in Japan rise?
Do you think the Steam Machines will change this?
Do you think Valve can do anything about it?
Or is it doomed to irrelevancy?
doomed to irrelevancy, not even consoles are doing so hot anymore.
>>265011095
Japan has no space in thier own home. Why would they want a PC when they barely fit their bed.
That why mobile big there. It's a lost cause
It would never be a thing.
it would help if pc got good games or at least one
>>265011317
>>265011381
/thread
>>265011095
>rise
Its already big as fuck.
Bigger than in the US.
Porn is serious business
>>265012020
When the oculus rift porn industry explodes it will take PC with it I reckon.
Maybe sell more Ultrabooks with dedicated GPUs? Japanese have no room for gaming rigs.
When everyone pisses away their consumer rights and resell value for the sake of GRAFIX.
>>265011095
Don't Nips get motion sickness from anything more intense than a VN? maybe a grindfest MMO from time to time, but mostly VNs and the ilk.
More support on PC would likely accomplish it, but gaming in general is a different culture over there in the first place.
>>265011095
japan loves the arcade scene to much, so no. its awesome as fuck actually, why would you want to get rid of that?
japan doesn't even like consoles that much. its all about handhelds and arcades
>>265013115
You want to tell me Japanese people don't play Japanese games? 90% of their shit should come out with seizure warning
>>265011095
Steam Machines could make a difference, especially the small form factor models. With the consoles this generation so underpowered there's a definite niche on the high end for 1080p and 4k tv gaming.
I could see games like Final Fantasy or DOA in 4k being killer features if they were to show up.
>>265014447
japs don't care about that stuff silly
>>265014447
Valve sure are taking their sweet time to release them.
> inb4 it's made by 3rd parties
Yes but they're making their own as well
>>265013115
No?
How do you explain the explosive popularity of pso2 in Japan then?
>>265014807
It's popular in japan?
>>265014807
It's a free to play MMO with toaster graphics, it's flame for moths and asians in general swim in 2fps gladly
>>265014807
Because its also on the vita.
>>265014630
They've been saying early 2015 for quite a while, and I think everyone who knows what's happening on the Linux side of things has expected the release date to be after Mesa 11 (with OpenGL 4 support) launches to allow low end Steam Machines with Intel Iris Pro hardware to be possible.
>>265014447
Didn't Alienware(lel) show off one of their Steam Machines at TGS?
Give it something to distract them from how depressing as fuck it is over there.
>>265011095
There's like 30 PC games released each months
Mostly eroge, but some of them pack actual gameplay that's not press A for awesome
>>265013115
Did anyone in the west made a TPS or HS faster than Vanquish or Ninja Gaiden?
you fucktard
>>265015309
Could be, but they released it running Windows 8 which kind of defeats the purpose of a platform that Microsoft can't lock down and that won't carry the stigma that Windows carries in Japan as only a platform for piracy and porn.
>>265015192
There's no one on the Vita servers
>>265014910
You can't be serious
>>265015042
Yet it's Destiny but better in every single ways
>>265015562
>vita servers
Its blocks. And there's sometimes even more there than b11-20 combined. What ship are you playing on?
>>265015562
> You can't be serious
Why? PC gaming isn't even a thing there
http://tabitter.net/how-it-sucks-to-be-a-pc-gamer-in-japan/
Kinda sucks for them over there
Japan has a pretty huge PC gaming scene already, it's just largely laptop-centric because shit is expensive as hell and Japanese people live in rice paper closets. Bethesda games are fucking gigantic over there.
>>265015815
I'm hoping this will change eventually. Falcom were interested in releasing TiTS on Steam in Japan
>>265015815
They have eroge, so no it doesnt suck
Eroge > everything
>>265015921
New Vegas had a cute marketing campaign in Japan making fun of JRPG tropes.
Why am I not surprised Steam, aka consoles 2.0 is deemed the solution ?
Don't nipponese like physical and hate digital?
>>265016119
Because it's an incredibly convenient platform for organizing a myriad of games in one place and allowing people to purchase them?
>>265016031
I like how the voice actors are the ones holding the signs.
I don't know OP.
The only thing that can make japanese devs care about PC is the japanese market caring about PC, which won't happen anytime soon. They really, really don't give a fuck about gaijin.
>>265016562
I thought japan was filled with westaboos
>>265016649
Nobody important.
>>265016272
You mean for people that were too inept to actually do it themselves ?
As I said, console 2.0. Closed garden architecture throning like the cancer it is at the heart of PC gaming.
Perfect for Japan and its apology of DRM and closed platforms.
>>265016649
You were wrong.
>>265016270
not really in videogames but books.
>>265016791
Okay, grampa.
>>265011095
It'll probably stay mid level for decades. The people who do use the PC for gaming play shit that isn't graphics intensive.
>>265015342
Underrated post.
>>265011095
It's already getting stronger, a bunch of big Japanese devs are putting more and more stuff on PC.
>>265011381
This is the most stupid shit I've read all day. If you space for a bunch of consoles you have space for a PC
>>265011095
>What can possibly make PC gaming in Japan rise?
Passage of time. It's already happening, what with the console market imploding and all.
>>265017076
Consoles are small as fuck and can easily be tucked away when you're not using them. PCs require dedicated space, like a desk, because they're big and have a ton of peripherals. That's why they prefer laptops.
>>265017076
default controls need a desk
>>265011381
that no space bullshit is a myth.
I'm hoping the fact that Steam finally accepts Yen will make it start growing a bit
>>265016512
You know it a fake pic right?
>>265017076
> a bunch of big Japanese devs are putting more and more stuff on PC.
Thats to sell stuff in the west, because people in Japan only really play handhelds and mobile
The kind of games PC excels at (FPS, RTS) are just not that popular in Japan. Of course that could change in the future, but don't count on it happening any time soon.
>>265016997
You're welcome, you title piece of failed miscarriage shit stain.
Jp has very few but dedicated PC gamers. I've personally played and spoken with lots of L4D2, TF2, Dota2, KF players and they easily had 2k+ hours invested into those games. What's great about it is that pretty much everybody knows each other and they aren't casual scum. They really go all out.
>>265017590
PC can excel at anything.
>>265011095
It'd probably help if PC had any good games
>>265017590
>FPS, RTS
Well, they can play real wack-a-mole in game centers on every corner, why buying digital?
>>265011095
>what is PSO2
>what is Kancolle
>what are VNs
Come on OP. Try to do a little research at least.
>>265018060
> What is Metal Gear Rising on Steam
http://store.steampowered.com/app/235460/?cc=jp
>>265011381
dont they have PC cafes like in korea? thats why pc gaming is so huge in korea.
>>265016031
What are they making fun of?
>>265018060
Good question. What IS kancolle?
>>265018610
love at first sight
>>265011095
Oculus Rift and uncensored BOOBS will do the job
>>265018540
Mostly digs on linearity and repetition.
>Why replay a game if it's the same thing each time?
>When did games turn into movies?
>It would be nice if the hero could do things besides fight evil.
>>265014429
They dont
Kamiya's shit, or Mikami's, or otjer fast paced action games DONT sell in japan
The 80s gaming crash didn't have the same drastic effect as in the west. The dichotomy of PC\Consoles is a direct consequence of it, while in Japan PC is pretty much only a work and office machine.
If a Japanese person wants to play a game, he thinks about a console primarily, then handhelds or smartphones. They even browse the web mostly on their phones.
There's also a thing about publishers, who really like this situation. Have you ever wondered why the games in Australia are so expensive? Well, look up how much Steam games cost in Japan.
>>265019809
And this point I ask you why Japanese people still don't talk english and pirate stuff?
>>265020060
For the same reason you dont speak Japanese
>in b4 but I do
Okay for the same reason 99.99999% of non Jp people will never talk japanese
They dont really need it and are more than content with their stuff.
Nothing
no
no
yes
>>265019809
This is where Steam Machines will have an advantage over the typical Windows box. They aren't going to be marketed as PCs, they aren't going to look like PCs, and they're not going to be running Windows instead booting into an environment that looks a lot more like a typical console.
Basically they're a lot like PS4s UNIX PCs marketed as consoles except not as locked down, and capable of playing games in 1080p. They may not destroy consoles in Japan, but they could help expand the market.
>>265015342
They already got a bunch of PC exclusive porn games that are unoptimized as shit and need Titans to run. Either those people have really good PCs or they fap at 12fps.
>>265020586
There's a big problem: Lack of games on Linux
>>265017432
It's not. Japanese law requires companies to make sure their operating system is installable on any computer, so they also need floppy versions.
>>265020459
Except that English is taught in all schools everywhere since it's an important language. Your point is moot.
>>265021062
So?
That doesnt mean they will learn anything.
Im Spanish, people here study English for more than 10 years in school.
Absolutely none of them know English when they turn 18, people that speak english here are a very very rare exception.
And I only learned it thanks to videogames.
>>265020060
Piracy is a huge no-no in Japan as well. Like, huge punishment-worthy, apparently.
As for the language question? English is not my first language, so I think I'm qualified to answer this.
Basically, in order for something to be used, there has to be a necessity for that. Japan, historically, is a very isolated country, with a lot of nationalistic notions being very popular. Why would they learn a a foreign language, when pretty much anything they can think of is available in their own? There are no direct borders with other countries, so there's little incentive to learn those languages as well.
Your average American doesn't speak Spanish either. Why, to watch Mexican TV and pick up their chicks? Geez buddy, why would some John Smith do this, when there's plenty of stuff available in English?
Meanwhile, most Europeans speak at least two languages fluently, because of how many different nations and cultures are there.
>>265020886
https://twitter.com/WhatTheBit/status/490312778830184448
>>265021062
Spanish is taught in a lot of schools in the US, is second to only Mandarin in terms of native speakers, and is the language of Mexico. Why aren't we all fluent in Spanish?
Sure, they teach English there and it's an important language, but they never get a chance to use it because outside the classroom, they have no real exposure to it. They just learn it to pass the test but if they don't practice it, they won't be able to speak it properly.
>>265021372
Then your education system must be fucked or you just have bad teachers.
Here in Germany I've had English in school since 5th grade (8 years total) and I got into university in England studying programming and had no issues.
>>265019809
That's just publisher basis, skyrim recently went for 495 yen on steam
>>265021372
>people that speak english here are a very very rare exception.
Jesus you people are the worst. I'm Portuguese and practically everyone knows english. Even my dad, who only has the 4th grade and never had english lessons, knows some english.
>>265021637
>Then your education system must be fucked or you just have bad teachers.
I wont deny that.
But its more of a cultural thing, we Spaniards dont give a shit about foreign languages, while germans are more open to that stuff living in the middle of Europe with many different languages all around them so they think in different terms about languages
>>265021526
You're just proving the stereotype that Americans are less clever.
In Europe everyone gets English lessons and the average high school graduate would have no problem playing games in English.
>>265021526
Spanish people are lazy anon duh. They hate effort and recalling another language is top tier effort stuff. Although if it meant not working and free money, then they'd certainly speak it
>>265021704
Probably cultural due to Portugal´s inferiority complex about their own country.
>>265021637
I'm sure there are plenty of Germans who have studied English in school, but because they've never used it after, their skills have diminished.
No practice = no skill.
>>265022058
>learning a second language
>You must have an inferiority complex! I'm better because I'm ignorant and only know one language!
>>265022149
I can understand someone at 40 having no English knowledge after not using it for 20 years, but the people in Japan who play video games will usually be in school or university
>>265021994
There is no real reason to study a foreign language if chances are: you are never going to use it, you have no real exposure to it, you don't really want to learn it, or your oral ability isn't being tested.
I think we are in that sort of situation. I would imagine English is more important in Europe than Spanish is to us and that you have more exposure to English than we do to Spanish.Of course, laziness plays a big part of it.
>>265022158
I was just saying based on what I have encountered/read/experienced, dont get all defensive man.
You are so isolated and small but its good you took English seriously, I envy you guys.
I wish we had more relations with you people.
Other than smuggling I mean.
>>265021390
Now I understand why Unreal Engine is still taboo overthere
>>265022374
I'm actually the German poster. I just like to strawman, sorry man.
>>265022000
You just dont wan't to learn spanish and you are calling spanish people lazy?
Amerifats, everyone.
>>265022281
That's just it though, the Japanese don't play video games in English. They play it in Japanese. Most Western games published there have a Japanese translation, even the voice-overs are translated.
>>265011095
Isn't Touhou already a PC game?
>>265021526
>Here in Germany I've had English in school since 5th grade (8 years total) and I got into university in England studying programming and had no issues.
>I got into university in England
One would hope you'd become at least decent in English after that. Your own experience does make a poor counterpoint to the argument that a secondary language learned at school but never used in daily life basically dries up with time.
>>265017319
Apartments in Tokyo are smaller than in New York and that's saying a whole lot. Large spaces aren't really wanted because culturally their disposable income is spent on their luxury hobbies, be it fashion or electronics.
Source: lived in oki
>>265020843
842 games, 668 confirmed to be working
http://steamdb.info/linux/
Its less of a problem than it used to be, many of the next-gen cross platform games have been announced for SteamOS/Linux so the library for new games isn't far off from what is available on the current generation of consoles, and the back catalog and library as a whole is much more extensive.
Japanese People are lazy OP
>>265022678
Where do they store all their electronics then.
>>265022678
Bullshit!
We are talking about PC not cars
>>265022653
>I got into university in England
>One would hope you'd become at least decent in English after that
What's wrong with saying "I got into university in England"?
>>265022741
That looks like android phone library
>>265022678
Ahh, I remember the days before the bubble burst. There's this saying about how you can go to any place in Tokyo, fold a 10k bill as small as you can, drop it on the floor, and it will still be worth less than the space it occupied.
Japan seriously needs to expand inland or they are super fucked. Not that it will be a problem since their population is decreasing lel.
>lost hope in Western gaming for PC
>all the major games I was hyped for turned out to be total shit
I'm thinking of making the switch to play a shit ton more easter games/JRPGs
>>265022741
Sure but 100% of games work on Windows and that will never be the case with Linux
>>265023005
10k nip bucks is only like $1.15 right?
>>265015562
>There's no one on the Vita servers
>this is what Ship 2 actually believes.
Why would japanese even want to use steam? It's a piece of trash and it's made to optimize sale of garbage. Imagine a japanese installs steam and watch at the biased review process and buy a game with "90% good reviews" and it's a buggy piece of trash. What would he think at this moment? I mean, japan is nintendo's country and you can say all you want about nintendo but they don't sell buggy pieces of trash and have quality control
>>265020060
English is so far removed from Asian languages linguistically that any sort of fluency requires actual 100% devotion to learning it. It isn't something you can pick up through casual usage like all you retarded Europeans arguing back and forth over nothing.
Look at English speakers learning Japanese―most of them are doing it for career purposes or because they're a NEET with a lot of free time. Japanese speakers learning English is the same, only it's harder for them because most Japanese English teachers are completely incompetent morons and the whole English language study field here is garbage.
>>265023009
Get a PS3 if you haven't already and enjoy all the last gen exclusives for really cheap.
>>265023135
$100
I decided to visit Futaba to look what PC games they're playing right now and found this in a thread with OP asking about New Vegas.
>Bethesda
>天才
一つ選べ
>>265022743
Let me point you to >>265016512
Anyone crazy enough to use 3711 floppy disks to install an operating system may suffer from many defects, but laziness ain't one.
>>265022884
There's nothing "wrong" with it. But if you studied inn England *you* had daily mundane usage of the English language, making you an improper counter example in a argument about the people that don't.
>>265023178
Chinese people talk english as well. Are Japanese stupid?
>>265022678
The no space thing is 100% true but something Americans have a ton of trouble grasping. Really anyone who hasn't lived in conditions like that would, it's just not really something that easily fits with someone's common sense if they haven't lived like it. It's similar to serious very high altitude hiking or something: "every gram matters" is just not an attitude that normal people need to ever consider.
That said, PCs, even good ones, are getting much smaller. The whole SFF movement has made major strides, and while pricey extremely impressive systems can be fit into systems that are in the range of console-sized. Even ignoring homebuilt, some of the Falcon Northwest stuff for example.
So while yeah, full/half towers would be no, I think continued improvements and shrinking of SFF will mean good PC gaming can go absolutely anywhere any other device larger then a phone could.
>>265023174
Thousands of games in one single place just a few clicks away of being played
ITT: people from two dozen different nations posting in English, thinking up reasons why are Japanese so fucking inept at learning English.
>>265023369
This pic is fake, idiot
>>265023135
It's $91. Back in '86 it was more like 200 JPY : 1 USD.
>>265023104
Its not the case though, a large number of Windows games already run in compatibility layers like DOSbox, and many Windows games that are currently only available through third party sources won't be available on Windows 9, and DX12 games won't be available on Windows 7.
>>265023442
You can build a great mini-ATX PC with a GPU like this (670)
>>265023479
>Thousands of pieces of trash in one single place just a few clicks away of being not played
I'd prefer non centralized good games. Steam is shovelware central nowadays, they even sell unfinished shit.
>>265021062
Japanese people don't really need to use english in their daily activities. Unless they work in tourism or something where they will have a lot of contact with western foreigners.
>>265023595
Whether it's fake or not - which was beside the point, your sarcasm meter is broken, you moron.
they need to start subtitling their games in english so the western audience can enjoy it
>>265023746
Few games will be DX12 only. Nobody is so stupid
>>265023440
>Chinese people
>speaking English
Good joke. Then why are 99% of Chinese international students in colleges across Anglophone countries can't speak English for shit?
>>265023961
You know this isn't true
>>265022281
I used to be fluent in 3 languages. One of them was the one that is only spoken in a small eastern-European country, and it wasn't my first either.
Then I moved abroad for 3 years. On my return I realized that speaking that language coherently is pretty fucking hard. You don't need 20 years.
>>265023920
Xbone is being upgraded to use DX12 and since it provides significant performance gains on low end hardware most console ports will use it. Microsoft isn't going to repeat the mistake they made with Vista and DX10 and allow users who want to play current games to stay on a 5+ year old legacy platform.
>>265024062
kosovo je srbija)))
>>265023920
>Few games will be DX12 only
All nvidia directX 11-compatible cards are also DX12-ready (4XX and up). DX12 will have better penetration, and if they make windows 9 free, be sure there will be a lot of DX12 only games.
>>265022678
oh
im from tokyo and have lived in my yojouhan room.
had 2 desktops and a bunch of consoles. (famicom, disc system, su-fami, mega drive, pc engine, ps1, ps2, and msx.)
sold them all years ago though. my current set up is a ps3 and a laptop only.
anyway you know nothing.
>>265011095
Why are PC gamers obsessed with everyone becoming a PC gamer. Why can't people play on what works for them?
>>265024370
fuck off peasant
>>265024207
DX12 won't be the only library used. Period.
Few hardware fully uses it and nobody wants to cut their userbase.
We will stil have DX9-11 games and DX11-12 games for 5 years at least
>>265024287
>no neo geo
こいつw
>>265023920
DX12 will work even on the old GTX400 and AMD 5000. Using DX12 or 11.3 (which has a bunch of the same features) will become a standard and DX9 will FINALLY be abandoned. Seriously, DX9 is an horrible API for current gen games
>>265024251
I'm from Latvia, I'm afraid. First language is Russian, Latvian was second, English third. Never really picked up French or Chinese despite learning them for several years.
Now it's pretty funny - I have a client who berely speaks Russian or English, and I have to communicate with them in broken Latvian.
>>265024485
>and AMD 5000.
Nope, AMD cards are compatible from the 79XX and up.
Japan will never have a large PC market because of a social stigma against PC games. ArcSys and Square even regionlocked their own PC games from being bought on Steam in Japan.
>>265024370
That's not PC gamers, that's the new generation of console 2.0 Steam "PC" gamers bringing back the console wars mentality with them.
They don't even understand the "Master Race" thing was a self-deprecating joke.
>>265024258
>Halo 2 only for Win Vista
Huge mistake
>>265024258
Windows 9 will be free to download and for OEMs, but be prepared for subscription fees and advertising to be included. This won't bother the normal users they're used to it already, and it definitely won't bother business users because they've wanted a more predictable pricing structure from Microsoft for years. Its definitely not meant to benefit us though power users and PC gamers are going to be kicked to the curb.
>>265023803
Shit man, don't even have to go that old, look at what Nvidia's just done with the 980 and 970. Those are top end parts and obviously the boards aren't shrunk, but in terms of TDP it's just a massive reduction, even the standard 980 is down to 165W from 200+ previous gens. And the mobile versions look super good too, they might not be there for the home builder but an OEM could do amazing stuff with a 980m. And that's still on 28nm!
I think we're going to see some impressively tiny systems at some point that are also damn good performers. Not top of the line, not multi-SLI+OC'd and so on, but utterly curb stomping consoles while still having a great form factor. It won't be a revolution or anything but it'll be yet another feather in the PC gaming cap that helps even more people come on board.
Really we had a bit of doldrums but PC gaming is looking pretty damn good going forward, and seems well setup for the next disruptive convergence in another 4-5 years or so.
>>265024370
It's steambeciles being obsessed with reenforcing their master's monopoly.
>>265023442
are you that guy that said you were trying to bring cereal eating image back, if so god speed
>>265024579
But they support 11 which means they probably support 11.3 as well. If that's correct then I don't think it's much of an issue
http://www.game-debate.com/news/?news=14454&game=None&title=Microsoft%20Reveals%20DirectX%2011.3%20With%20DX%2012%20Rendering%20Features
>>265024370
Because of consoles being a primary platform for development, PC players oftentimes get shitty, unoptimized ports with inconvenient control schemes, and worse graphics than they could have been.
>>265023369
>There's nothing "wrong" with it. But if you studied inn England *you* had daily mundane usage of the English language, making you an improper counter example in a argument about the people that don't.
You completely missed the point of my post. I was able to live and study in England with only the English I learned in school in Germany.
>>265024846
> FFXV
No man no
>people say Japs and Koreans hate each other
>people say Japs never play PC games
>2 of my friends are Japanese and the other 3 are from South Korea and we all get together fine and play PC games constantly with a guy from Russia and best friend from Chile
>>265024765
>cereal
REESE'S PUFFS
It's candy FOR BREAKFAST
>>265024775
If they support OpenGL 4.4 then they'll support DX 11.3 and DX12 since its the same feature set. Keep in mind though that Windows 7 users will never get support for DX11.3 or DX12 even if their hardware supports it because the OS is purposefully limited for planned obsolescence.
>>265025027
It's not people it's the market
>>265024775
It will be supported on GCN architecture only (7XXX and up).
>>265024913
Then *you* totally missed the point of the person to which you were answering.
Again, answering to someone whose argument happens to be that people forget a language they don't use with "*I* didn't forget, I moved to the country that use it" is kinda short-sighted at best.
>>265025128
Japan's market is Japan's market. The only good business they do with us is in electronics and I wouldn't have it any other way. Same with France, why is French entertainment so fucking based? Why can't their people be just as based?
>>265024370
Personally I want PC gaming to rise so that more games become multiplatform and stop PC gamers from being treated like second class citizens. There are a bunch of multiplatform games that are consoles only with no reason at all for not being on PC.
>>265024472
ネオ塩ほしかったけど、当時でも高かったよw
つーか、PS2とニューファミコン部屋にまだあった
色々忘れてたw
>>265025027
>people say japs and koreans hate each other but I know 5 people who get along!
based retard
>>265024370
Because of network effects anon and the vast differences in capabilities between the two classes of systems. PC gamers naturally want games that take advantage of what the PC has to offer. Some types of games are equally fine wherever, there's not going to be any play difference in JRPGs say (though even there, more PC users helps in ensuring the platform gets release). But a game like SupCom:FA just isn't doable on consoles. It'd have to be massively scaled down and fucked up to even work at all. Complex sims would be another class of game like that, and there are more. And even for games which can work on both, they can work on the PC BETTER if time has been put into them.
But devs won't put extra time in unless there's a payoff, which won't happen unless there are enough users. And thus people evangelize the platform. They want other people to have a better gaming experience, and in turn that helps their own gaming experience.
>>265025269
>us
Who are you?
>>265025027
Now here's the thing, people who play games, both the online and offline variants care less about where you come from in general. the average Japanese businessman will generally hate Koreans without even knowing why
>>265025135
Man, AMD keep giving reasons to people to not even bother with them. They abandon previous GPUs so early it's a fucking joke.
>>265025086
Yes but who wants its userbase butchered by some DX libraries. Skyrim was DX9 and 10. Yes pretty similar, so is DX11 and DX11.3 DX12
>>265024370
Because shitty console ports.
>>265025460
You have been chosen. They will come soon.
OP, Japan still goes on Floppies
>>265025086
If microshill makes windows 9 free it will be a non issue. And I really hope they make it free
>>265025543
I guess it's the price to pay for cheaper cards. Personally, I don't cheapen and buy the nvidia equivalent for a bit more expansive but can appreciate good driver support.
>>265024045
OK, maybe not 99%. But you can't deny that the vast majority of Chinese international students speak poor English and they tend to segregate themselves into their own little cliques.
>>265025737
you mean CDs. they're both so old it's easy to confuse them and records and minidisks and other obsolete shit nobody else in the world cares about anymore but its not all the same thing.
