After an extended period now playing this game I have concluded that I don't like it much. It's slippery and every character controls like a load of bricks. I sincerely hope Smash4U is as far from this as Sakman can possibly make it.
>>258590618
Fuck off.
I saw 30 seconds of fighting after waiting 2 hours on 56k to see what the game was about.
Picked it up and I had the best game that I have ever played in my life.
It is like you are younger then 15 and never even played the 64 version of smash
>>258591309
64 > Melee
>>258591614
But 64 pretty much evolved into melee.
Which was a good thing.
That is why I personally enjoyed it.
The next game was the retarded cousin who fucks pigs though.
Brawl is even slippery and brickery.
there is no frame buffer in melee
brawl has a buffer 5 or 6 frame buffer on inputs
that's probably why most brawl players say melee is "clunky"
>>258591806
>evolved
>good thing
Nah, neither of those things. Melee was more like 64 rebuilt from the ground up in an entirely different engine that didn't handle basic physics and momentum and collision the same so they had to make do with it.
>>258592090
Sorry for being stupid, but what exactly is a frame buffer?
>>258591614
theres a reason they added air dodging into the mix after 64
>>258592090
>Brawl players
Are these even a thing?
>>258592292
if an input is used early during another action, # of frames ahead that it will automatically be used at the soonest frame
>>258592024
Bricks aren't floaty and I'm pretty sure if you try to throw a brick it doesn't wait a tenth of a second to acknowledge that you've thrown it
>>258592303
For wavedashing?
>>258592472
totes bro : ^ )
>>258592208
No melee was pretty much a 60 fps version of 64 with a few new things added to the game that added to the complexity to the game that was being made.
At the time it is revolutionary.
to 14 year olds that only played brawl it is the worst thing on planet earth
>>258592407
That sounds like a good thing. I hate the idea of pressing a button during some shitty animation and nothing happening.
>>258592407
Ahh, so it adds some technical skill in terms of timing.
Of course Brawl fags would want the game to be easier.
>>258592320
All of 4chan.
>>258592654
Have you never played either of those games?
>>258592654
64 and Melee play nothing alike. 64 had a shitload of 0 to death combos.
>>258592292
It pretty much reads inputs before and after the optimal time which makes everything very lax, but very imprecise and can lead to unintentional actions. Like, in Melee you could run, jump, tap behind you, press B, and do a neutral B (like a Falco laser) behind you as you're jumping away. In Brawl, it's more annoying to do because the lax input buffer might detect the direction tab and B as a side special instead of a neutral one.
Brawl also has a frame delay. I forget how much, I think 2, which means no matter what every action you do is coming out 2 framers layer than it should. I have no idea why this was implemented. It, in combination with the input buffer, makes Brawl a sluggish game.
I don't like it compared to Brawl. I feel like I have more control over the character in brawl, but that's probably because I played Brawl more. I also love going really deep to chase people off-screen and I can't do that in Melee.
Project M > Melee = 64 > Brawl
>>258593387
mah trigga nigga
>>258593387
If 3.5 fixes recoveries, sure
>>258593387
Only if you're a fucking retard.Haha just kidding I've never played Project M or Brawl so I don't really know.
>>258593243
You can definitely do that in melee, if you're skilled enough. Certain characters like Peach, and Jigglypuff can do it very well do to floatyness.
>>258593531
Still running the last version before they changed the load screen to the new bullshit. What's wrong with recoveries?
>>258590618
Slippery how? Unless you mean how you're turning, that's called either a pivot or a dash dance. If you dont turn correctly or arent fast enough you'll slide yes. That's more user error than the games issue itself, it's one of the most tight and responsive games in existence
>>258593795
some are too good
>>258590618
2/10
a few idiots will fall for it.
>>258592936
Hey do you want to play me on melee netplay and find out?
>>258593135
I mean it gave the other person more of an option to get out of combos I guess. Which is a good change but honestly melee would be nothing without 64s guidance.
>>258593387
Pm is the easiest one out of melee 64 and brawl LEL.
>>258593950
Yeah you're right.
Project M > 64 > Brawl > Melee
>>258593950
>Hey do you want to play me on melee netplay and find out?
I can already tell.
>>258593531
I heard they're nerfing recoveries on armada's stream. Armada himself didn't say it but there's a strong chance its true.
I think there's very few people who prefer Melee/Project M and don't suck absolute shit at them and barely display any intermediate skills. They can't properly/don't know about DI, can barely follow up on their hits, can't deal with any sort of decent edge guarding.
Might as well play Brawl where you won't get killed at 50% because you suck shit at the game..
>>258593531
and adds light shielding
and fixes Samus and Link's tethers being able to wall grappleand brings back Pokefloats
>>258594137
>>258594137
http://projectmgame.com/en/news/dev-blogpost-1-recoveries
http://projectmgame.com/en/news/dev-blogpost-2-tethers
http://projectmgame.com/en/news/dev-blogpost-3-lucas-recovery-overview
http://projectmgame.com/en/news/dev-blogpost-4-debug-pt-1
http://projectmgame.com/en/news/dev-blogpost-5-debug-pt-2
>>258590618
How convenient for you to hold an opinion so contrary to as many people as possible, and at such a time when said game is quite visible and beloved. It's almost like you're holding an incendiary opinion on purpose.
>>258593924
I like seeing buttmad meleefags respond to threads like this
>>258590618
Why do you do this Op? Do you find this amusing?
>>258593924
I find that me trying to cautiously approach the ledge to edge guard causes me to slip right off.
>>258594224
man fuck you, pokefloats was so dumb
>>258594030
If melee is not hot then beat armada post your picture on here right now and then beat him and take a picture of you and come back and talk.
>>258594346
>Hating Pokefloats
I'm a Meleefag and even I think you should kill yourself
Get the absolute fuck out Woolie.
>>258594040
Yeah brawlfags are scared.
More news at 10.
>>258594194
Yeah, /v/ is filled with casuals who think Melee/Project M are God's gift to competitive gaming but suck shit at both, yet still talk shit anyway.
>>258594382
I won a local melee tournament playing only pichu
does that count?
I've been playing them all because of all the Smash 4 hype.
64,melee, brawl, project m.
Brawl is floaty, slow and clunky as fuck.
But Melee is slippery, too fast and too heavy.
64 feels perfect though, but it feels too primitive, not as much variety of abilities and effects but the speed and gravity and precision are perfect.
Project M is interesting. It's like a better Brawl in some ways.
Smash4 looks like a better Project M.
>>258594414
did i say i hated it? I just said it's dumb, i love playing on it if it's just a funsie match
>>258594530
No beat armada.
Lets see your pichu
Lets play.
64 is like kendo, Melee is like fencing. Just depends which you like. I like the deliberation and powerful striking of 64 but others like the speed and precision of Melee.
Everyone should get along.
I dunno what Project M or Brawl are like because I've never played them.
>>258594553
>Smash 4 a better P:M
What the actual fuck nigga
>>258595579
P:M is lacking on the balance and polish department. I'm not hating on it but it does show that it's a fanmade patch of another game.
It's still amazing but Smash 4 looks overall better to me.
>>258590618
Mandatory post in every Smash Bros. Thread
We're going to compare Melee to Brawl, and find out WHY casuals in this thread are dead wrong.
Melee: Mario vs Falco. Even in Pools, the action is intense. Unlike in Brawl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVfvuHiLugw
- Fast air movement, faster falling speed, multiple movement options such as wavedashing allow for freedom of movement
- L-Cancelling and adequate hitstun allow for combos, albeit harder to do than in 64
- Gameplay that rewards both relentless offense and calculated, brief defensive play that is exciting to watch
- Overly campy, defensive gameplay can be punished
Now let's look at Brawl. This shit-fest was a Winner's Finals match, by the way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmGKl84HYt0
- Excessive zoning, camping due to DEFENSIVE GAMEPLAY being heavily rewarded, while OFFENSIVE GAMEPLAY is heavily punished(unless you're Metaknight)
- No L-Cancelling, no hitstun (immediate airdodges after getting hit), floaty physics, increased knockback on moves effectively removes combos from the game (no, doing an attack that has three hits and landing all three does not count as a combo), further hurting offensive gameplay
- Slow, campy, unexciting gameplay that is unsuited for spectators to watch
Bonus: The link I am about to put here is everything wrong with Brawl shown in a few minutes. It includes Scarflard getting salty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQsivruSEEE
All of Brawl's miscomings culminates into this.
Camping for a percentage lead until time runs out has become an actual tactic. Players look for one or two uncommitted slaps at each other before running off to their own side of the stage.
At the end, Diddy Kong wins, despite what the victory screen says.
When getting one LAST slap in is more important than eliminating the opponent, there is something wrong.
inb4 but t-t-those are glitches! Pic related, motherfucker.
>>258595304
brawl is nerf bats and helmets and suits of armors and your only allowed to hit your enemy one time every 10 seconds
ssb4 is going to be this but instead of the suit of armor its like normal clothing so the characters have almost good speed.
>>258595858
>Sakurai
>in charge of balance
>>258595858
The only smash game to have good balance is 64. Not even counting Project M here.
Smash 4 demo's balance was terrible as well
>>258595863
I don't think there's one person in here claiming Brawl is better than Melee.
>>258595863
THATS FUCKING BRAWL
WHAT THE FUCK
IT LOOKS LIKE JUST 2 NORMAL PEOPLE PLAYING HOW THE FUCK CAN ANYONE LIKE THAT
>>258594263
Thanks man, I might take the game more serious once it becomes less defense focused.
>>258590618
THANK YOU.
SOME ONE SAID IT.
Melee just doesn't hold up. It's still fun but its not as good as people say it is through their nostalgia glasses
>>258596232
Nice b8 m8. I'll take it. It's not about the people playing, its a bout the game play. I shouldn't expect /v/ to understand though. They hate games.
>>258596484
Yea man fucking Melee fags wearing nostalgia glasses for 13 years. Fucking band wagoners also, Melee is thriving while Brawl is dying just because evo. fuicking band wagon
>>258596658
Pretty much, on /v/ especially.
>>258596784
13 years fuelled by bad gameplay, people are just stupid. Everyone but us Brawl players.
>>258595863
Brawl being so floaty it made attacking hard, or tourneyfags being tryhard scum that use cheap tactics don't change the fact that Melee turned into shit when people start l cancelling, wavedashing and abusing all those other advanced techniques.
Defending those techniques is just a sad attempt at justifying themselves from the tournneyfags that are still crying because an obviously game breaking unintended mechanic was removed from the game.
Wavedashing is never ever coming back because it was not intended.
The only reason it existed is that Sakurai didn't think it would be used so he didn't invest time and resources to implement an artificial limit to the amount of momentum that could be transferred to horizontal movement from the air and the GC couldn't manage balance patches.
Otherwise a patch would have taken care of it as soon as it became an issue.
>>258597054
>Brawl players
Do these exist?
Brawl>Melee>64
You know it's true play Melee again it doesn't do Smash justice. Brawl was pretty much Melee but improved and no i'm not baiting. I played 64 first then Melee then Brawl, and Brawl is pretty much just more of what you had before, but better. It's fun, it can be plenty competitive, and at the same time newcomers can at least TRY and play and learn the mechanics a little easier.
>>258593531
3.5 is going to be a entirely new game.
I hope you guys main at least 3 characters because at least one of them is going to get completely fucked.Also now is a good time to pick up ganondorf
>>258597064
How do you abuse the advanced techniques? Aside from L canceling most if not all are punishable.
>>258595858
That's not enough to say 4 is a better P:M, because basically 4 is quite like brawl with small tweaks for what I have seen. Plus the balancing was quite horrible in every smash, recoveries appart i feel like PM is the most balanced at least characterwise.
>>258597064
Thank you. Although I disagree about attacking being hard in Brawl, I didn't find it that hard personally the few times I've played Brawl with my buddy
>>258597138
>Brawl is pretty much just more of what you had before, but better.
Also thanks for giving me a gigantic opinion that means absolutely fucking nothing.
But really,
>but better
People have been playing melee for 13 fucking years.
People have clearly shown that Brawl is simply Melee, but objectively worse.
>>258597138
I play Melee everyday over Brawl, it isn't true.
I like Brawl and Project M. I'd like Project M more if I didn't have to do so much just to be decent at it. L cancelling is just tedious. Wave dashing is slightly better, but not by much.
>>258591614
Haha NO. There are far too many infinites and not enough characters in 64
Your opinion is a hipster trash opinion
>>258590618
>pic unrelated
>>258597280
>People have been playing a game that came out before another one for longer
No shit
>>258597138
>Melee>64
>>258597209
Using them is abusing them.
Only because the game can do it doesn't mean it was meant to be used, or that it benefits the gameplay, the balance, or the experience.
>>258590618
>load of bricks
I literally cannot think of a single game that gives players more control over their character than Melee
These are all the possible characters for Project M.
Select five, and say why for each one.
>>258597147
what aboutDoctorMario ?
>>258597426
>benefits the gameplay, the balance, or the experience.
Just because it wasn't meant to be used doesn't mean it can't benefit the gameplay, the balance, or the experience.
>>258597264
Brawl made attacking hard in general, it's a mix of many things that buffed defense and made offense worse like buffs to shields or making control in the air worse and some offensive abilities were nerfed all over the place.
>mfw I love every single Smash game, including Brawl and PM, and I can't wait for Smash 4
I guess i'm just a raging casual faggot.
>>258592320
casuals on /v/ who are convinced by their friends who actually appreciate good gameplay to try Melee, but then want to hate it and be contrarian anyway
>>258597653
Me too but I still feel like Melee is better
>>258597523
Pichu Bros, because it's a necessary buff for Pichu and you can play as solo pichu by holding down R.
Gray Fox, because Metal Gear needs another rep and who better to be added?
Isaac, because a magic user is what PM needs.
Lyn, because I know it's going to happen no matter what.
Sukapon, because we need another retro character.
>>258597147
What could they possibly nerf? He's not topping the tier lists anytime soon.
>>258597064
I don't understand how it's possible to "abuse" l cancelling. That's like being mad at someone who short hops or double jump cancels all the time.
Brawl-> Melee = Project M > 64 > Brawl
>>258597573
Doctor Mario is already in PM.
>>258597147
What's the status on DK?
>>258597523
Ryuta kungfu dancing
>>258597147
There's no chance that the recoveries of Wario and Olimar will be nerfed, so I'm good.
Melee > Brawl- = 64 > Project M > Brawl
>>258590618
I think it might be my favourite game
>>258593189
>Brawl also has a frame delay. I forget how much, I think 2
Oh no anon, it's much worse. It's a random amount of input delay between 0, 1, or 2 frames, for every action.
>>258597901
Oh yes I know that, I meant buff/nerf-wise because I recently started to play him.And also annoy people with up taunt cancels
>>258597523
Can someone filter out the shovelware shit on this list
>>258597138
>play Melee again it doesn't do Smash justice
nigger I played Melee today
the only people who think Brawl is more fun than Melee (or PM, or 64) are people who are too shit at the game to appreciate how much better Melee is. That sounds like bait, or trolling, but it's actually true
>>258593189
I hate that shit i cant controll myself properly in brawl when trying to do something a little more complex
>>258597926
I don't see why they would change anything on him.
>>258597653
Yea same but I still like Brawl just a little more.
Like before the rampant fanboys attack me here I just find it more fun and easier to control. Yes it's floaty but I find it more easy and less stressful that way, and if I WANT to make Brawl stressful and challenging, I can do that. I reason I like Brawl more than Melee is because I have more options to play, and more ways to play, and more content. Yes on a competitive level im sure Melee is better I guess, but I always found Brawl made for a more competitive fight as the defense buffs and offense nerfs and such made kills more justified because you had to damage the opponent a good amount before the finishing blow.
Maybe I'm just a fag, I don't know, I just like Brawl more than Melee for a lot of different things and it feels like they put the most heart into Brawl.
crazy shit's been happening in melee, pikachu beating fox, yoshi beating fox / sheik, dr. pp being the most beast falco ever
brawl players actually look worse than the year the game came out LOL
>>258598295
It's people seem to think Content>Gameplay.
I rather play a game with better gameplay than one with lots of stuff.
>Brawl gameplay
Disgusting
I'm gonna buy smash 4 and hate it, this industry's getting weird
>>258592320
The hyper defensive play is really only apparent at high levels, which barely anyone here is at. I play offensively at all times with my friends and we have fun. I do plenty of combos at low percent and high percents.
Just because the pros play one way doesn't mean it's the only way to play.
>>258597590
True.
But in this case we're talking about gameplay techniques that didn't interact equally with all characters, so they further made the balance even worse.
They break the purpose of the game, which was to make a type of fighting game that could be approached by everyone.
They mess with the pacing of the combat by giving players tools the combat was not intended to have.
>>258598578
sounds like it will be better than brawl from what i've heard, concerned about the apparent lack of smash di though
>>258598393
Yes because brawl isn't a game that evolves over time, unlike Melee that still makes changes on tierlists because of newfounds things (Yoshi's parry for example), it changes metagame and everyone evolves, you get the idea
>>258598380
I disagree but at least your argument made sense. I think 64 is best.
Yes I know i'm sad but I can't stop my nostalgia
>>258598581
>I do plenty of combos at low percent and high percents.
I don't think I've seen a Brawl combo in my life that wasn't just utilts chained together or MK uairing someone off the screen
Why do people criticize project m for having only offensive playstyles when zelda exists
>>258598846
by a bit, but thats not hard, and still doesn't make it good
>>258590618
Only bad thing about Melee is character balance and gameplay.
>>258598684
This isn't even close to true. Advanced techniques benefit every character equally some characters like Luigi have a longer wavedash than others but you have to know how and when to use it.
>>258598883
I've seen combos like that, but they're stupid situational stuff like Ike's combat walk thing on Ganondorf and Captain Falcon's Nair infinite on ROB.
>>258598854
Yoshi's parries aren't exactly new, but they were disregarded for a long time because the tech skill required to pull them off consistently was supposedly too high for practical purposes.
That is, until aMSa made his way to the United States.
>>258598883
>I've never seen a combo in my life that wasn't attacks chained together
That's what a combo is moron.
But actually there are actual combos in Brawl
>>258597523
>Plusle & Minun as a Pichu Climbers character with Pichu playable as a hold R easter egg like Sopo
>Isaac for Golden Sun representation and a cool potential moveset
>Black Shadow because I like the Black Shadow gets Ganondorf's moveset and Ganondorf gets a new moveset that matches his character better idea
>Midna because Midna with Wolf Link would be a cool playstyle imo and quadruped characters in fighting games are neat
>>258598684
>But in this case we're talking about gameplay techniques that didn't interact equally with all characters, so they further made the balance even worse.
Neither does any other move each character has. They didn't make balance worse, they made balance better. Characters like Ice Climbers and Luigi would be god awful without wavedashing but are improved because of it, while characters like Peach don't use it and don't need it.
>They break the purpose of the game, which was to make a type of fighting game that could be approached by everyone.
Nigga wavedashing isn't hard. If it was in the manual you wouldn't even be complaining. It's simplistic shit and it's easier than the most basic "traditional" fighting game inputs.
>They mess with the pacing of the combat by giving players tools the combat was not intended to have.
So?
>>258598883
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjUB_P7UrT4
>>258592024
Brawl is more like controlling a down syndrome soap bubble.
>>258598581
>The hyper defensive play is really only apparent at high levels
no thats how it is with anyone trying
>I do plenty of combos
liar
>>258598581
chaingrabs don't count.
>>258599312
They do
It's the automatic garanteed ones in brawl that dont count
>>258599046
It wasn't that the tech skill required was high it's that it was a lot of effort to master for little reward.
Similar to Pikachu. Why the fuck would I learn gimmicky shit like Pikachu or Yoshi when I can just pick up a spacie that's been figured out for years like literally everybody else?
>>258598883
Fox's fair > uair
Fox's dair > anything
Marth's fair > fair > fsmash
Luigi's dthrow > uair > nair
Luigi's jab > upB
Peach's dair > anything
Falco's dthrow > dair
Obviously not to the extent of Melee but they are still present.
>>258599128
It's pointlessly difficult to use, which goes against the overall style of the series which is to make things simple.
Being in the manual would not change that.
And even if wave dashing was assigned a button to automatically do it, it would still be unbalanced and it would still be changing the dynamics of the combat. It changes movement, approaches, dodging, attacking, viable attacks at any given time, the importance of certain offensive and defensive abilities, etc.
Smash with advanced techniques is simply not smash, it's something else.
>>258599679
all of those can be escaped with smash DI
watch a TAS of Brawl, the potential level of smash DI is fucking ridiculous
>>258599778
It's literally air dodging into the ground at an angle. It's not difficult in the slightest. It's easier than a fucking dp.
You gotta hand it to the Smash competitive players. Melee players, specifically.
They're a group of good people that enjoyed playing the game fast, and got the attention of Sakurai. They got his attention and he didn't like what he saw. Because of them, Brawl changed everything and it even had random tripping, as if punishing players for wanting to dash constantly.
Think about that for a second. A couple thousand people basically made Sakurai lose his fucking shit SO HARD that he opted to change the entire game physics, gimp the mobility, nerf everything and casualize it to fuck... because he was scared that these players would defeat less skilled players.
In what other series has this ever happened? And the crazy part is that Sakurai has somehow persuaded the majority to go against the competitive players. In that recent interview Sakurai pretty much admitted that he wanted a more casual audience, something that the people of /v/ hate to hear... yet everyone supports him because "it's just a party game".
This entire thing is pretty insane when you think about it. Then you get response from the competitive scene with things like Brawl mods, Project M being the big one. It's like a really messed up cold war that has been going on for years now. It's pretty neat.
>>258599115
Oh and Chibi-Robo because I really how he plays inSmash Flash 2
>mfw ever Smash thread comes down to Melee vs Brawl arguing while I just chill on master race 64
L-Cancelling was an intended mechanic. The fucking tutorial teaches you how to do it.
>>258599949
I think the funniest thing wasn't the Brawl mods, it was the fact that despite everything Brawl was still played competitively for it's entire life span.
>>258599585
they were talking about comboing in brawl.
>>258599850
>all of those can be escaped with smash DI
i think brawl is shit
but that doesnt mean its not a combo, thats what makes smash bros great, no diala combos
>>258599679
>Fox's dair > anything
cant the other people just hold shield and the second move wont hit
>>258599949
Dipshit
Sakurai made the game casual because the Wii install base was too huge to expect anyone skilled to play the game and enjoy it
>>258599778
wavedashing is only really good for a few characters like luigi / marth
for a lot it's only used to get down on platforms or to recover from ledges more quickly...more efficient with falcon, fox, peach and most others to just crouch cancel a dash instead of wavedash
>>258599850
With TAS the potential level of anything is ridiculous.
And DIing properly gets you out of a lot of Melee combos as well. It's up to the attack to read them.
>>258600002haha
>>258600085
>of its life span
That is kinda the thing. Melee should have died at Brawl but didn't because it had better gameplay
>>258600189
No seriously, brawl has far stronger smash DI than melee ever did. You have no idea man.
Look up "Fox vs Falco TAS" on youtube.
>>258600243
But Brawl still survived and thrived despite Sakurai trying to casualize the series.
"Fuck your bullshit Sakurai, we'll play the game the way we want."
>>258600408
Survived yes, Thrived no
>>258600484
>Thrived no
It was bigger than Melee until the lead up to Evo 2013.
>>258600364
I realize that, but bringing up TAS isn't the greatest counterpoint since no human can possibly operate at that speed in actual play. It would be better to bring up a video of two people actually playing and showing all combos being shut down by smash DI.
>>258600169
as if even the most casual fucking casual would be able to enjoy Brawl and not Melee
it's not like 6 year old Jimmy is going to get mad because his 9 year old brother fucking wavedash chainshined him off of FD, he's going to get mad because he died when Yoshi put him in an egg and laid him off the stage or something retarded like that. I have no idea how Sakurai thought people being good at the game affected low-level play in any way
>>258600664
The Brawl scene was extremely forced everywhere. Melee players weren't as active as they are now. Most of them stopped playing because they hated Brawl and had nowhere else to go play.
>>258600713
it's easier to do and to greater effect in straight up feasible play to...any multi hit attack can easily be escaped
>>258599778
I don't like Shielding in smash. It's unbalanced, and it changes the dynamics of the combat. It changes movement, appraoches, dodghing, attacking, viable attacks at any given time, the importance of certain offensive and defensive abilities, etc.
Smash with shield is simply not smash, it's something ele
>>258597523
Since they could have been interesting newcomers but lost their chance:
Saki
Takamaru (I would like swordsmen with projectiles other than Link)
Goroh, an F-Zero rep we won't get this time, with nice moveset concepts
>but muh Falcondorf
google "Triforce Ganon"
Red, cause we'll never get a playable trainer and he could use items as attacks.
Jill, again because it would most likely never happen, it would be hard to created tought.
>>258600952
>The Brawl scene was extremely forced everywhere.
Because people obviously wouldn't just play what they want to play. Holy shit why can't you accept Brawl had a playerbase?
>>258600748
When I play with my casual friends in Melee or PM, 8 times out of 10, when I knock them off at 40-60% they don't get back on. 3 times out of 10 if I don't guard the edge.
Recovering is a pain in the ass. With Brawl even the shittiest shitter that can press Up + B will live to a 100%.
>>258600152
At higher percents you can't shield it. Or if you get caught jumping.
>>258592828
No it doesn't. It removes technical skill by forcing you to be slower in order to achieve the desired string of inputs. Which is counter intuitive to a game that revolves around who can hit the other player enough times the quickest.
>>258599932
Yeah it is easy but doing it right is hard.
Compare it to any normal action in smash.
Press A
Tilt and press A
Tilt and press A fast.
It's all extremely intuitive.
The game doesn't even feature more than 2 buttons for regular attacks.
Everything about smash was built with intuitive play in mind, love it or hate it, that's how the game is built to be.
Wavedashing requires practice to master properly. So difficulty wise even if it is not difficult it conflicts with everything else in the game.
>>258600187
The things you mention weren't meant to be done that easily though. So that right there is among the ways it changes the dynamics of combat.
>>258594263
Fun fact: That last dev post went up before there was any actual content in it. All that was in it was a few pictures of pokefloats
pokefloats confirmed
>>258600187
>wavedashing is only really good for a few characters like luigi / marth
>>258602360
>Compare it to any normal action in Smash
To jump I press the jump button.
To jump and air dodge I press the jump button followed by the air dodge button.
To wavedash I press the jump button and then I press the air dodge button while moving toward the ground.
>>258602360
Wave dashing is air-dodging (shield + direction) into a platform. That's not even remotely difficult to do. If you want to complain about tech being obtuse, complain about shield dropping.
God forbid Smash to have a skill ceiling.
The only people that like this game more than brawl are tourney fags and wannabe tourneyfags. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
>>258602602
I guess you just don't get it.
It's a mix of jumping, shielding, going down but not straight down and with a perfect timing of all 3 things only to do the wave dashing, which is to move forward.
Compare it to rolling around. Which only requires pressing shield and any direction.
It's just not the same kind of thing.
It's not even intuitive because from any common sense point of view it doesn't make sense at all to perform a dodge against the ground to somehow slide around.
If they actually wanted to embrace Wavedashing the first thing they'd do is assign a button to it and make it something like dodging or rolling, press wavedash button and press direction.
Not counting all the balance and gameplay they would have to change of course, that would come second.
>>258603913
How is it not intuitive? If you air dodge into the ground your momentum is conserved and you slide in that direction. Seems pretty intuitive to me.
>>258603190
Why dies the game seem so much faster when good people play it? It hurts to know I'll never be that fast.
>>258599778
What the fuck mate. Don'y you like variety, wave dashing presented players with a new movement option that you could use in substitute for dodges, as the dodge left you wide open at the end of it but gave you invincibility, while wave dashing allowed you to make actions during it but at the cost of being vulnerable throughout. Its perfectly balanced in its the first advanced technique anyone learns.
>my fucking face when smashshitters claim their game is harder to play than street fighter/kof
>>258604303
The only thing harder than KoF is GG.
>>258604303
>MFW when Street Fighter/KOF players pretend Smash isn't hard despite not having any experiance
>>258604095
Because good people know how to consistently get the most mileage out of every input they do. In that 10 second clip there is no movement wasted and everything done has a purpose.
>>258604043
It's logical from a game mechanics point of view but not intuitive from a gameplay point of view.
Like if you wanted to move forward in a sliding fashion normally, in any random game, would dodging to the ground be the first thing you try?
I highly doubt so.
>>258604095
Its mostly due to L cancelling.
>>258604479
you literally missed the entire point
>>258597523
GODDAMNIT, THOSE ARE NOT THE PICHU BROS. ONE OF THEM IS SHINY, THE OTHER IS A NOTCHED EARED GIRL. How the fuck do smashfags not know shit about pokemon!?
>>258604526
Like pressing a button to do it is any more intuitive.
What's wrong with spending even a couple minutes learning a new tech?
>>258604720
there was no point
nobody fucking says what he was replying to in the first place
>>258604526
Game mechanics are not a part of the gameplay?
No, I doubt you'd try it, but somebody figured it out. And it's easy to explain and understand.
>>258604885
Wrong how? Morally, ethically? It's not wrong.
But if the being intuitive is part of the design goals behind smash bros, and we know it is, then wavedashing as it existed in melee would be a failure in that purpose.
>>258605228
wavedashing is intuitive, it makes complete sense
>>258605228
Wavedashing is a lot more intuitive than most things in any other fighting game.
>>258601204
No, people wanted to play where the money was. Plenty of good players played it because all they had to do was pick Meta Knight, practice a little, and they would win money.
>>258601204
M2K hates it but he plays it to win the money
>>258605483
That still doesn't make it nearly as intuitive as everything else in smash.
Even the strength of attacks is intuitive.
A tap for a quick weak attack, a tilt for a stronger attack and a smash for the strongest attacks.
Pressing the shield button harder makes the shield stronger.
Every character's moves are similar in style, they all follow the same commands.
Everything about smash is extremely intuitive and immediately natural to figure out through basic instinct.
Nothing takes more than one timed command.
One button, maybe a direction, always equals an action.
Wavedashing requires at least 2.
No ability requires as much timing either, they can all be executed with either a simple press, a tilt or a fast smash without failure while wavedashing requires a fine timing to even be used.
It just doesn't fit with anything else in the game, it should be clear why Sakurai said something about the gap between pro players and casual players becoming too big when he discussed removing it.
>>258606302
Brawl did nothing to shorten that gap.
>>258606302
You really must know very little about Melee tech if you think Wavedashing is the most finicky tech to pull off.
>>258597523
I'm not even surprised /v/ doesn't know the difference. You'd think that the people who play Smash and Project M would be nintendo fanatics, but they don't know shit about anything other than wavedashing.
>>258606803
Pokemon Channel was mediocre save for the Pichu Bros cartoonI mained Pichu back in 5th grade, thinking I was hot shit
>>258597757
Seriously, what would they even do to his recovery? Nigga dies at 20%
I just know they're gonna shit on my main (zard). I'm not sure what they could do beyond making Fly absolutely useless for recovery though.
>>258606383
The best players will always win, reducing the gap doesn't mean changing that. But it meant giving homogenizing the experience a bit. Things like wavedashing changed the game a lot, they made that gap something that wasn't purely built on the skill of the players but also the toolkits they were using, and in this case we are talking about a tool that was not accessible to a lot of people.
And that's very normal for fighting games but remember that smash was built to be a fighting game that didn't do that kind of things. It didn't require memorizing a combination or training to nail timing right to perform any attack or move intentionally so casuals and pros would at least fight with the same set of tools.
>>258606556
I'm only talking about wavedashing because it's the most popular topic but the same applies to other stuff like l cancelling that also got removed.
But yeah I am not really that into smash, but I do think I understand all the game design stuff Sakurai was trying to do with the game.
>>258606556
Wobbles is my nigga.
>>258607627
wobbling is boring and lame
>>258607771
there's no wobbling going on in that webm
>>258607397
I don't even think Sakurai intentionally gimping the game succeeded at decreasing the skill level, take something like tripping for example. A casual player might like like one smash attack off of it but a good player would probably use that opportunity to chaingrab them to death. Brawl arguably has even more advanced tech and exploits used in competitive play than Melee, a lot of which are way more esoteric than wavedashing.
>>258607964
Seriously, just look at DACUS and tell me how that's any more intuitive than wavedashing.
>>258607964
It would be worth asking him if those were intentionally left there or what.
>>258600748
>Yoshi put him in an egg and laid him off the stage
But that is an advanced tactic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQwi9C509qo
>>258606803
I know some of the guys at my local barely even play vidya outside of smash. Fighting games are kind of their own little world, and smash even more so.
>>258606556
Seeing wobbles play Ice Climbers at my local last week made me want to pick them up. He did some cool shit. Maybe in PM, even. At least I won't have to worry about nerfs if I do.
They're such a bitch to get into though.
>>258609104
>youtube link with no time stamp
>not webm
>>258607771
He barely even wobbles any more. Purposefully avoids it most of the time, along with unduly long handoffs.
He's in it for style points now.
>>258606803
I've rarely ever seen such petty nitpicking in my life.
>>258602528
Pokefloats is in the last post though. But it's melee
>>258609589
They're COMPLETELY DIFFERENT characters, who happen to be the same species. I want to know what we're getting, and I'd expect people who love Smash to love Nintendo's franchises as much as I do. But as >>258609292 stated, you guy's don't know shit about Nintendo outside of Smash. Now all the Smash 4 hate makes sense...
>mfw my friend thinks every single competitive game sucks because he sucks at it
>I'm forced to play fucking D3 with him and watch as he dies in T1 rifts
anyone else having friends who just fucking suck at games?
>>258609104
The backwards egg into Dsmash is more advanced part actually.
>>258609975
POKEFLOATS
CONFIRMEDDon't ruin my dreams anon
>>258610082
"Pichu Bros" is just what people call a theoretical Pichu duo that works similar to Ice Climbers. There is no telling whether they will be the Pichu Bros from the anime, the notched-ear/normal Pichu combination, or anything else. You're nitpicking about something that as of right now doesn't even exist.
>>258610225
Why is friendly fire on in competitive teams?
>>258611028
You have to watch out for your buddy. Promotes actual team play instead of 2 1v1s
>>258610895
>There is no telling whether they will be the Pichu Bros from the anime, the notched-ear/normal Pichu combination, or anything else.
And beyond that no one fucking cares
I love F-Zero, and I love Smash. I don't give a fuck that Smash Falcon has fuck all to do with the F-Zero Falcon. And god knows that I don't care how much FE faggots hate Roy.
>>258611028
Because otherwise you'd do nothing but put up projectile walls all day and it'd be boring as shit.
>>258611028
More "strategic".
Rewards teamwork better.
Tradition.
>>258590618
Thanks for your terrible opinion, shitlord
>>258593189
This kind of shit fills me with rage. I don't even Melee competitively, but Sakurai intentionally made the game shittier. He fucked up the gameplay ON PURPOSE. That is absolutely inexcusable.
>>258611167
I can't agree with you more.
The "You can't be a true Smash fan without being a true Nintendo fan" crowd is ridiculous, and it's annoying that there is enough of them to be able to call them a crowd.
Nintendo is such a large company and their IPs are incredibly different. So different that the vast majority of them don't appeal to me at all. Does that mean I shouldn't enjoy Smash because I have never played or wanted to play Fire Emblem or Animal Crossing?
>>258611028
Requires more coordination, harder to do 2 on 1 combos, prevents some janky strategies
>>258611404
Naturally. If you aren't interested in a SoL simulator, turnbased strategy, high paced racing, platforming, AND adventure games you clearly don't DESERVE to play Smash
>>258611028
I always assumed that too many infinite combos would be easily executable without friendly fire, or anything while your team mate has another player grabbed.
>>258597064
You are the type of person that would rather that Street Fighter not have combos either. After all, it was an unintended glitch.
>>258611404
>>258611167
Now it makes sense why Smash threads are nothing but shitposting and complaining. I fucking love Smash not only because it's a great game series with great gameplay, but the fact that it introduced me to Nintendo beyond Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon. I didn't know who Kirby, Samus, or Fox McCloud was in 1999. Playing Smash has led me to play so many other games, and it's been a fucking ride. That's why Smash is my favorite Smash series. All you see is a normal fighting game. I never took the "just go play street fighter" fags seriously until now, they were right all along. I don't have an insult to call you, so I'm just going to refer to you as a normalfags or plebs. Fucking Meleefags, killing the hype and ruining Melee for everybody.
>>258612252
>how dare you enjoy a game differently than me!
>>258612252
Sorry that I don't like Kid Icarus or Star Fox bro. I didn't know that was a prerequisite for liking Smash Bros.
I like all of them, including mods like PM and Brawl Minus.
The only thing that bothers me is when someone says Melee is better because it has a higher skill ceiling/takes more skill/because advanced tech is better and they're shitty at the game anyway.
Also people who say Smash isn't a fighting game. It clearly is. Get over yourselves.
>>258612252
>getting this mad because someone doesn't give a shit about the pokemon anime
Holy shit you are incredible
I've owned every nintendo system sans the virtua boy and I was well familiar with every character in 64 when I first played it. Get over yourself. Not everyone has to go full autism over Nintendo's entire library like you. They can get just as much enjoyment out of the game as you do, possibly even more. Does this upset you?
>>258611028
you can occasionally save your team mate when theyre too far to recover
Am I a scrub for using Zelda?
Everyone calls me a scrub when I kick their asses using her.
>>258613072
Only if you abuse Din's Fire. But then again, they're scrubs for losing to someone abusing Din's Fire.
>>258613072
Anyone who calls you a scrub for beating them is a true scrub, basically by definition
>>258613208
I usually spread my attacks out over all her options.
People always say that her neutral B is way too good. Is it really?
Brawl was fucking great, I still enjoy a shit ton of hours with my friends on it
>Inb4 tournamentfags.jpg
>>258613359
Too good? No. It is good though.
It's pretty frustrating until you learn to bait it out.
>>258613359
It has it's uses but in no way, shape or form too good.
Your friends should learn to hold down the shield button or mix up their approaches.
>>258612425
>>258612452
>>258612676
It never made sense to me why Smash fans are so divided until now, because the very reason they love Smash is fundamentally different. While I'm on both sides, you guys clearly missed a huge point in Smash. What did you think the all the trophies, where the stages are based off, and all star cast were about? Wavedashing and muh advanced mechanics? Curbstomping "noobs" is fine and dandy, but you can do that in almost any competitive game. Smash is special. And it doesn't upset me, I'm just disappointed. Because Smash is great, but most faggots just don't get it. And when it comes to enjoyment out of Smash, I'd say I won there. Smash brought me to enjoy so many games, while I never stopped playing any Smash game. All you seem to enjoy is Melee and Project M. Maybe 64 but only if zero to death combos are involved.
>>258613432
Brawl tourneyfags exist too.I'm one of them.
>>258613501
>>258613626
Oh wait, I forgot to mention that we play on PM.
>>258613646
I enjoy Smash the same reason I enjoy Mario or Pokemon or any other Nintendo series, hell any other video game series in general, because the games are fun to play.
I'm responding to bait, aren't I?
>>258611404
No, but you should go play Fire Emblem anyways.
Awakening's good shit
>>258593387
This is the only correct opinion
>>258613646
Yes, Sakurai should intentionally remove depth from the game in order to add... nothing.
What we have here is a failure to communicate
>>258607627
How the fuck does Popo get to the top platform that quick? I sort of understand most of that combo as just ridiculously skilled desync shenanigans but I have no fucking clue how he got up there that quick, that was like Falco's full hop wtf
>>258613858
I actually have played Fire Emblem. Not a fan. It was an example man. Like why would you expect a Pokemon fan to like F-Zero? Because they're both Nintendo games and both represented in Smash?
>>258590618
This anon fucking gets it. From a casual stand point, Brawl is smoother and easier to control. Casuals don't care about falling like bricks or sliding off stages, they just want fun. That's what Brawl is at it's core.
Melee is fun to competitive players, which is understandable. What grinds my gears is when fags try to push their obsession with Melee into others. Not everyone does this, but those few asses that do help divide the community.
tl;dr
Ignore trolls, play whatever you prefer and don't be an ass about it.
>>258613651
MK, IC, or Olimar?
>>258613646
Your head is so far up your ass it's amazing. I don't need Nintendo's advertising to help me find games I want to play, because I am not 12.
>>258613996
>>258613996
Pretty sure he double jumped but don't quote me on that.
>>258613996
He starts his jump sooner than you think he does. Like, when Nana starts her throw. You just can't tell because Shiek is in the way for part of it so it looks like he teleported.
>>258613914
When did I say anything about Brawl taking out "advanced mechanics"? And stop bitching, 64 didn't have Melee's advanced mechanics, but people who like 64 the most aren't faggots who whine constantly about how the sequel mixed things up, nor did they expect Brawl to be Melee 2.0.
>>258614078
Neither.
>>258613646
I enjoy Smash primarily because of its unique mechanics and gameplay that I cant get from any other game. If it had generic wire-frames instead of Nintendo characters I would still enjoy it though it wouldn't have the same immediate appeal to me. I'm sorry that you're so narrow-minded that you can't accept other people having different opinions.
>>258614284
You any good at QAC? that shit is pretty crazy
>>258614284
>putting ketchup on ice cream
FUCKING WHEN GOD DAMNIT
I JUST WON A TOURNAMENT AS PICHU IN MELEE TODAY
I NEED MY FUCKING PICHU FIX
>>258614276
Because everything in Melee was either a tweak, like reducing hitlag and nerfing Z-cancelling, or a straight upgrade
Meanwhile Brawl downgraded many things from Melee; it doesn't even character-specific BtT stages for heavens sake
>>258614078
>It has an All-Star cast from Nintendo titles, and celebrates Nintendo's history!
>IT MUST BE ADVERTISING, SMASH IS JUST AN ADVERTISEMENT SANS THE GAMEPLAY
You see, I play Marvel vs. Capcom, too. And nobody would say that about MvC or any other crossover game. It's like saying "The Avengers" was just an advertisement for upcoming Marvel flicks. Damn, you faggots are terrible.
