Thoroughly explain to me all your qualms with Naughty Dog as a developer and their games.
It baffle me when all of you hate their game because they're cinematic of dudebro. YES they are cinematic, but they are far from dudebro. The narratives in the Uncharted series and The Last of Us are a thoughtful pastiche of modern and classic Hollywood. There is a methodical craftsmanship that they put into their games that separates them lightyears from other copycats. If anything, Halo, Gears, and Tomb Raider are quintessential dudebro cinematic games since the handholdy, linear, and ludonarrative dissonant qualities cinematic games are criticized for are more so blatantly present there than from the likes of Naughty Dog. With Naughty Dog, their level design, writing, and characterization is what shines best. The common waist-high wall trope is at least cleverly masked in a majority of the environments and locales from Naughty Dog's games as mot of the time, there' a sensible environmental reasoning for a structure to be conveniently placed like that. Also on the writing side, Naughty Dog gives heft, nuance, and depth to their narratives and characters as opposed to the opposition that constantly break standard conventions of writing like tonal and character inconsistencies. As for gameplay, this is another area they excel in which as they have blended game and cinema beautifully. The level design is mostly open-ended with their approach wherein there are multiple and unique angles of attack that make sense contextually and environmentally (if you see the uncharted 4 campaign demos, you can see they've taken this tothe next level).
Also, big showstopping moments that would be left or relegated to a simple QTE are instead FULLY controlled such as the train sequence in 2, the horse and jeep sequences, and the collapsing building sequences from 2 and 3. And as I can see most of you detractors will say "but, but, the games are piss-easy and these controllable moments are handholdy with little interaction," NO. You people are wrong. You are given your full arsenal of controls and with the difficulty cranked up high, there is a sense of urgency and challenge to it all. Also, enemies are not turned into bullet sponges with the difficulty increased, the a.i. is just heightened and your health realistically shortened. Me, peronally, with Uncharted I place myself on Hard becaue I feel with that tone of a game, you want to still have challenge but not too much similar to Indiana Jones wherein you're not invincible but if you pay attention and not do some shit, you can successfully counter all situations while still maintaining weight and tension and you don't have to interrupt the pacing by constantly dying. With the Last of Us, I played on Grounded the 1st run because it was a survival action game and I wanted to feel the intensity of the situation the whole way through, so I didn't run into as many criticisms about the difficulty being piss-easy or a.i. being unforgivably retarded.
I just dont like their dlc weapons and skills in tlou. Gameplay changing things should be free.
I can understand hats being paid and can even tolerate dlc maps but weapons and skills are too much
>>320561962
>>320562005
>>320562109
>>320563261
Sure is samefag in here.
>>320561962
I cared about them when they did Crash Bandicoot.
Don't care about them now. No hate nor love. I simply don't care about their new games.
Literally who?
...Do they make ero?
![248fb9b706e8d2d95a2ae38e8b7f363e[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/G6DesED.jpg "248fb9b706e8d2d95a2ae38e8b7f363e[1].jpg")
I have no qualms with them, I honestly prefer their more Hollywood-esque cinematic games than the 2Deep4You bullshit David Cage makes.
I wouldn't mind seeing a return of the Jak series though (Even if there's not really much they can currently do to move the story forward without rebooting).
They had god-tier waifus back in Jak 3 too. Remember when western studios weren't afraid to design sexy characters and not the manfaces we see today?
>>320563415
This, only I feel a bit cheated with Last of Us. They promised a lot and ended up half assing the gameplay to focus on the story.
>>320561962
I never played any of their shit
I guess they're not really relevant
>>320561962
As a developer: nothing, except maybe the overwhelming obnoxious positive reception "NAUGHTY GODS NAUGHTY GODS" instead of some good old fashioned mixed responses.
As a developer: not a lot, other than the fixation on their narrative over game design. I actually think Naughty Dog is pretty damn good at what they do, and that's making linear, set piece driven games that are extremely scripted but do a convincing job of integrating you into the experience and game flow so that it seems seamless. The building crash in Uncharted 2 is a great example. You hand is held but they blur they lines to make it seem like you're just playing part of the adventure.
So in that respect I think they're great at what they do. And I think The Last of Us has a legitimately fantastic story with a strong script and voice work, while picking up a lot of the slack in Uncharted by offering a more varied game and encounter design.
I just wish, alongside praise for these strengths, people were a bit more critical of their weaknesses in the game design itself. Uncharted has some awful hit detection, feel, and encounter design at times. Same goes for The Last of Us. Resorting to "bullet sponge armoured enemy with helmet and shotgun" is so lazy and dumb. Sometimes encounters can cheaply throw you in the middle of an arena with awful spawns. The climbing in Uncharted, especially the first, can be horrendously inconsistent in visual feedback of what you can grab and how high you can jump. TLOU has some awful AI that's easy to bait and trick. Like they don't make bad games at all, but they fumble some really basic, more polished shit and rarely cop criticism for it.
So yeah. They're a talented bunch, but I wish more pressure was on them to match their narratives and setpieces with tighter, more polished game design. Because they're on the right track, but they need that encouragement to do better.
>>320563415
This
The Crash Trilogy and Jak 1 were the main games I liked from them. I don't hate their new stuff but I don't care for their new stuff either.
I missed out on Jak & Daxter because I was too preoccupied with Ratchet & Clank and Sly Cooper at the time. It wasn't until Uncharted that they popped back up on my radar.
Unfortunately, it really is just the second game that I enjoyed from the series. The first was alright for what it did at the time but the third one was a straight up disappointment. I know, I know, Uncharted doesn't exactly have the best of stories but they were at the very least comprehensible and well paced. UC3 has the Call of Duty problem where, when you are caught up in the excitement, it's fine. However, when you stop and look back at the plot, it's a fucking disaster. This problem is best explained in the behind-the-scenes videos where they flat out tell you they made the set pieces first, story second.
>>320564153
>>320563685
>>320563415
THANK you for the sensible criticisms instead of the inane "I hate cinematic games, they're not real games, so Naughty Dog's current games are shit."
>>320563336
the 1st 2 response were samefag because I didn't have enough space to write it all out, you fucking asshole.
>>320561962
>Naughty Dog as a developer and their games.
>developer and their games.
>their games
>games
>>320561962
>The narratives in the Uncharted series and The Last of Us are a thoughtful pastiche of modern and classic Hollywood.
So in other words dudebro?
Look, I don't know what kind of copypasta you think you were copying there, but if something isn't kawaii Japanese animu or Nintendo first party or casual mobileshit then it is automatically dudebro. These are the only types of video games that exist.
>>320565436
I only played a few chapters in The Last of Us and already it did not feel like it deserved all those GOTY awards. The teammate AI is horrible. The fact that enemies completely ignore teammates pretty much destroys any hope of taking the game seriously let alone the story. Uncharted's teammate AI wasn't that great either but they did a better job of hiding its limitations.
If they had to learn from another game on how to do teammate AI, Resident Evil 4 is their best bet. You can give basic commands like, FOLLOW, STAY, and HIDE. It's simple but effective.
>>320566171
>I only played a few chapters in The Last of Us and already it did not feel like it deserved all those GOTY awards. The teammate AI
Stop right there.
It didn't win anything for its gameplay.
>>320565810
>>320566107
idk if these are memes, but these were the type of inane response I was hoping I WOULDN'T get. I said THOROUGHLY describe everything you hate about modern Naughty Dog and not just "oh it's like a movie, its shit." You can have a PREFERENCE, but to completely disregard materclass games just because you don't like that style is fucking insane. Have you ever fucking beat Uncharted or The Last of Us on their hardest difficulties since you think the games are piss-easy? No? Then shut the fuck up, casual.
>>320566442
The style of games I like is the only relevant style.
>>320566231
I wouldn't be surprised if you were right, in fact, the whole idea of GAME OF THE YEAR is just pointless outside of publisher ego stroking.
>>320561962
I think they're a genuinely talented group of devs who know how to take advantage of the console they're working on.
That being said while their writing seems to be mostly par for the course amongst their series', I find that they are generally just better at cartoony art styles than they are at the realistic ones.
Not to say any of Uncharted looks bad considering it's a PS3 series, it's just, I dunno, look at 3D world, that game looks gorgeous and will continue to look gorgeous. I can't say I'm not slightly disappointed that they post PS2 they just stuck with the realism angle, because even now the first uncharted looks outright bad in some areas, and it's only been one generation. Meanwhile Crash Bandicoot is one of the most visually appealing games on the PS1.
I think the Last of Us is probably one of the worst games they've done simply due to how generic it feels, considering I've always known them for at least trying something new or interesting in their games.
>>320566442
I didn't say anything about hate or "movie" or whatever. I merely clearly stated that there was a factual inaccuracy in your post. You see, there are only four types of video games.
Kawaii Japanese animu
Nintendo first party (real "kidz" games)
casual mobileshit
dudebro
TLOU clearly fits into the dudebro category. There is no disputing this.
>>320566171
First of all, it' not HORRIBLE if you play on Grounded. Second of all, you're not supposed to rely on your party members. Also, third, a.i. is hed back in ALL game because of consoles, so I don't what you're getting at by saying the a.i. is borderline retarded. It's not. I bet you think the a.i. in fucking MGS5 was hypersensitive which it WASN'T. Now THAT'S retarded a.i.
>>320561962
>their games
>games
>not movies
>>320561962
They only release games on a single platform.
That platform is one that I care very little about due to the nature of its parent company, their anti-consumer stance and the unethical down to downright illegal actions they've taken to wring money from people.
If ND was to release some of their games on other platforms, then I'd be able to form a conscious opinion on whether or not they are a good developer today.
Crash Bandicoot was neat though and that is the last series of games I have played that was developed by ND, so they probably aren't all that bad, but again - I can't comment on them as they are dead set on only supporting a anti-consumer platform.
>>320566803
+1 (you)?
>>320562109
The set pieces are very well done. Unfortunately, UC3 took it a bit too far because they worked on them first and wrote the story later. Call of Duty also specializes in set pieces and look where it is now. I fear that the constant praise and awards Naughty Dog gets will make them continue this route.
>>320566723
Far Cry is dudebro, Halo is dudebro, Gears is dudebro, Asassin's Creed is dudebro. Uncharted and Last of Us are NOT dudebro. Like I said in my original post, they have a presentation that demonstrates sophistication and cinematic heft. The writing in Last of Us and Uncharted FAR outclases Halo, AC, Gears, and Tomb Raider. Did you SEE how exposition was told in 2 and the beautiful introduction to Chloe and Flynn? That's masterclass.
>>320566782
>Also, third, a.i. is hed back in ALL game because of consoles, so I don't what you're getting at by saying the a.i. is borderline retarded. It's not. I bet you think the a.i. in fucking MGS5 was hypersensitive which it WASN'T. Now THAT'S retarded a.i.
Just because something else is bad doesn't make your thing automatically good.
You projecting doesn't make a good argument.
Last of Us had pretty bad AI, that's a proven fact at this point. It takes precisely 40 seconds of googling to see a multitude of recorded situations where the AI will run around you without ever attacking despite the player doing nothing but standing there.
It's not the worst AI in the world but it seriously bears criticizing because otherwise they'll just continue to stick broken AI in all their games and get away with it as long as fanboys mindlessly praise it
>>320567121
>they have a presentation that demonstrates sophistication and cinematic heft.
Doesn't matter. Dudebro is a type of game, not an evaluation based on how good the game is at presentation.
>>320563786
They are one of the best developers of all time and uncharted belongs in the hall of fame especially when Uncharted routinely outsells Zelda and Halo.
You'd have to be quite the basement dwelling loser to have never played a Naughty Dog game.
I just wish they also did some wacky zany platformer games on the side instead of " we're only going to do realistic and gritty story games now because muh cinematic experience".
The screen cap of a forum where some asked about jak or crash pisses me off because of the idiots agreeing with some douche director from naughty dog.
>>320567397
why are you shilling so hard
>>320566782
You misunderstand, the enemies ignore teammates like they are invisible. Difficulty has nothing to do with it. Friendly AI has been done better in other games regardless of console.
>>320561962
They havent made a ps4 jak game
>>320567401
Why is it that you feel they should keep making games they feel are beyond them though? Basically even if they made those types of games, they'd probably be shit because their heart isn't in it. They want to have a real cinematic feel to their games with realistic environments and narratives. They no longer want to make cartoon platformers. You're longing for what they did in the past without realizing that people change over time; those people who are still at ND who made those games are different people now. They may not even like Jak or Crash anymore beyond acknowledging them as a part of their past.
>>320567047
This is a good criticism and is duly noted. And yes UC3 has some massive flaws in this regard like yu said, but it looks like they're rectifying it in 4 based on what I've seen from the demos. There' a clear coherent progression and I love what they're adapting from The Last of Us by applying weight from prior adventures on Drake and expanding on each of the characters and their relationships individually. That scene with Elena at the end of the E3 demo was GREAT. And that scene with Drake's brother meeting Drake for the 1st time was GREAT. I'm also wondering if the dialogue choices will affect the story in any meaningful way as that'll definitely increase the replay value and will hamper that common criticism for these types of games.
I fell asleep playing uncharted and tlou. They dont make fun video games anymore unfortunately
something went really wrong in their brains after J&D 1.
>shit up the J&D series with ow the edge and poorly-implemented open world gameplay
>create Uncharted, which is basically just Tomb Raider but the game controls itself more
>I will admit to not knowing shit about TLOU but I've heard the enemy AI got a huge downgrade from the (likely scripted) E3 demo and that's mad gay
>>320567847
You need to stop concerning yourself with the gameplay in ND games. They don't make games for gameplay. That's just filler. It's like the grinding in a JRPG. It isn't really what anyone would play it for except the mentally ill.
>>320567806
expand on why though. if those aren't your type of games I can understand, but to completely dismiss them as unfun because of their approach in game design (which I think they excel at), I think is ignorant bashing. Go in-depth. I appreciate your criticism, but I want to deeply know why you think their current games are bad.
>>320567847
Not to mention Jak 2 has some really dumb design decisions
>AI kills itself and you have to restart the entire mission over again
seriously why were there no checkpoints in that game
>>320567956
but it's a game - gameplay is fucking important. And their stories suck too
>ow the edge in J&D
>generic whatever adventure in Uncharted
>I still don't know shit about TLOU but zombies aren't interesting and never will be
like what the hell
>They don't make games for gameplay
bulllshiiiit whyyyyyy
>>320568030
yeah Jak 2 had some questionable difficulty spikes. Obligatory shoutout to the 'escape the docks' part
>>320567597
There are bound to be some people at naughty dog that still feel they would like to make such games. If I had the resorcesses I would do it myself.
Don't get me wrong I like some of the stuff they make now a days too, but I feel they did the more platform and light hearted adventures better.
>>320568023
Theyre generic cover shooters and the platforming is holding the stick in one direction with the ocasional button press. There's no challenge or depth. Also really tired of the oh shit im falling gotta mash a button set piece scene all the time like it has any actual tension
![uncharted-3-subway-615[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/vuNrD06.jpg "uncharted-3-subway-615[1].jpg")
I haven't played any of their games other than the original Crash Bandicoots. I can't speak about how "cinematic" Uncharted/TLoU are but if their E3 appearances are anything to go by, they're incredibly dishonest. And they get away with it, too.
>>320567716
I'm guessing the the multiple dialogue choices are just to add flavor to a scene rather than change the story. If anything, there will be very few times you have any input on the plot.
As long as the gameplay is solid and the story & ending is great, I'll rest easy knowing that they learned from their mistakes. But as it stands, I don't fully trust them with a preorder after UC3 and The Last of Us. Being disappointed twice in a row, that's already one too many.
>>320568450
Whoever makes the trailers and commercials, they don't pay them nearly enough.
>>320568117
what is generic about Uncharted other than the fact that it expanded on Tomb Raider and combined it with Indiana Jones? Just because there are cliches and tropes that make there way into those games doesn't make them bad. It's all apart of the homage. Also, they're not complete carbon copies. They branch out and mold their own stories with their unique storytelling. The devil is in the details, an the Uncharted games have excuciating detail. For you to completely dimiss that, then I think you just have an ignorant bias intead of a more objectively skewed opinion. We get it, you don't like movies or want Naughty Dog to appeal to your nostalgia. You're going to hate all of their new masterclass games now just because they're not the type of games YOU want to play? They're not even out for the money or commercialism, they GENUNELY want to bind the perfect blend between film and game (narrative and gameplay), and they're not trying to run their series into the ground just to keep selling copies infinitely like Microsoft with Gears and Halo. They have found a contextually, artistically, and tasteful end to he Uncharted series with 4 and are applying all they've learned through the years to capitally finish the series.
They used to have a sense of adventure to their past games.
Even if jak 2 and 3 were a bit edgy, they still retained that sense.
Uncharted and TLoU just losent that sense for me.
>chapter starts
>story, feels, light hearted chuckles
>enemies ensue
>beat enemies
>walk down path
>rinse, repeat.
I mean sure they some small tiny bits to look about and look pretty while your poking about, but It's so bare bones in gameplay it's saddening.
>>320561962
Crash Bandicoot is god tier
they literally only make what sells the most in the current market
>make crash to cash in on 3d plats
>even copy the trend of racing spin offs(their test level for CTR was even a fucking 1:1 copy of a diddy kong racing level)
>jak and daxter goes from lighthearted to edgey JAK II after the first game because that's what sells
>cinematic third person and nothing else since last gen
>>320568320
See you keep picking surface-level reasons. And I hate this shit. NO, there are nuances and diversity to the gameplay. The pacing, writing, and level design is what amplifies the fun and intensity. here are unique and multiple ways to go about attacking and some of the greatet showstopping moments are fully interactive with your entire arsenal. And there IS difficulty if you turn it up and top playing on normal or easy because you want to automatically water your expectations. And have you seen the psx 2014 demo or e3 2015 demo with 4?? I'm so happy because they're going above and beyond and LEARNING. They're utilizing the new hardware and enhancing the gameplay by enlarging the design of each level and having your characters realistically and contextually behave differently each alternative path. There were MULTIPLE roads for the jeep scene and the dialogue drastically changed to fit each path they took. The rocky ledges are WONDERFULLY designed for the jungle demo because it forces you to utilize your entire arsenal. It really brings a tear to my eye how they're damn there going to make the perfect game.
>>320568117
Why do you type like a 15 year old female
>>320569741
>>320568117
>>320561962
Two things I have. The first being they don't make games like Crash and Jak anymore. I don't necessarily mean sequels, but games that don't adhere to being realistic like how Uncharted and The Last of Us adhere to it to a degree. I'd forgive them a bit if they made Uncharted Kart Racing, but that won't happen.
The second thing is that the direction and goals they have for their games after Jak feel off, both from what ND says they want to do and how they go about doing it. Somewhere around Uncharted 2 or 3, they said that they were disappointed that their games were not nominated for awards or whatever and wanted to be a part of that recognition circle. I think it was also around there that they said they wanted to make the characters and games they make "believable," but at the same time, they still made most of the enemies you fought brain dead or emotionless, an example being the last level of Uncharted 3 when the place was falling down and collapsing over everyone's head, but the enemies took the time to hide behind cover to fire at you under those circumstances. That part was really shaky with how it was put together. It just felt fake.
They did a similar thing in the Last of Us with the enemies where they threw out the A.I. found in the demo/trailer build where they reacted in fear to gunshots being near them to being stoic again. Normally, these types of approaches don't bother me, but ND saying they want to do one thing and does close to the opposite us disappointing since I went in anticipating some level of that.For The Last of Us, I understood what mood and approach it went from, but I still wanted to see a Doughnut Joel and Doughnut Ellie skin as an unlockable like it was for Doughnut Drake in Uncharted. Don't explain to me why they wouldn't do it. I already understand why, but I still would have like to see it.
>>320568967
What about CoD? Why didnt they ape that?
>>320570886
>tfw other people stop liking games they liked in the past, meanwhile you're on /v/ stuck liking everything you liked since you first played vidya
What's going on here?
>>320561962
Crash and Uncharted games were entertaining but TLOU is an eternal stain on their whole existance
>>320569741because I wish to be the little girl
Everyone post best girl
>>320569694
I dont give a shit about writing or story. They're not fun to play so they're bad video games. You get behind cover, shoot brain dead ai and then cimb some shit with no skill or tension involved. And putting the game on hard just makes bullet sponge enemies. The ai doesnt change and it doesn't affect the other half of the game which would be the platforming. Give me vanquish shooting with crash or jak platforming. But they wont do that because they just want to make cinematic games now
>>320571518
>>320571518
>Literally no good r34
>>320571795
It hurt
When are Naughty Dog going to make another racing game? At least give me an HD port of Jak X with the bugs fixed and 4 player split screen.
>>320567121
Haha no.
Halo has better fucking writing.
Also halo has classy music
>>320571592
>ignoring that enemie aren't bullet sponges on hard and a.i. IS increased
>ignoring that level design ISN'T just linear corridor convenient waist-high walls like Gears
>ignoring multiple ways of attack
>not liking Indiana Jones adventure
Thanks for completely disregarding 70 percent of my post. Sounds more like you just have a bias and refuse to play on harder difficulties and see that I'm right. You're also probably just not creative with your approach to each segment, so you attack the same fucking way every time just to solidify your biased as fuck sentiment.
>>320572239
>Halo: power fantasy and every scifi cliche stripped from better source material the game
The main fucking failure with Halo 1-3's story is that there' no human connection for the entire plot to show you what you're fighting for. It's just telling you you have to have the human race and telling you to go to this objective do this, go here, do tat, etc. Also, the dialogue and writing in general is horrendous. Not only that, but the idea of the war is never amplified as every single segment is just varying sizes of a corridor with hardly any moments advertised in prerendered trailers. So I don't know where you're coming from, pal. It just looks like you hear "epic" music and think you're doing "epic" shit or that the story warrants this "epic" score.You're not and it doesn't.
>>320572238The Fast of Us
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2Ud6YXB.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
START YOUR ENGINES. FROM SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT AMERICA PRODUCTIONS
Can they go back to making games instead of Hollywood wannabe shit?
Jak and Crash were pretty good games.
What are they doing now? More Uncharted shit?
>>320571592
also the difference between Uncharted and Indiana Jones is that there's emotional and character depth to the Uncharted series with longstanding relationships that are expanded upon naturally as the stories progress with great creative ways to deliver exposition.
>>320572996
how the fuck is he blinking his eye
uncharted is really boring and generic.
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/7sAfLFb.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
>>320573069
FASTEN YOUR SEATBELTS FOR ANOTHER
NAUGHTY DOG CREATION
>>320561962
Naughty Dog have never made an original game. Virtually everything they've done has been 2nd or even 3rd generation rip-offs.
Way of the Warrior - Mortal Kombat ripoff, which was itself a Street Fighter ripoff
Crash Bandicoot 1-3 - Donkey Kong Country ripoff in 3D, which was itself a Super Mario Bros ripoff
Crash Team Racing - Diddy Kong Racing ripoff, which was itself a Mario Kart ripoff
Jak and Daxter - Banjo Kazooie ripoff, which was itself a Mario 64 ripoff
Jak 2 - Grand Theft Auto III ripoff
Uncharted - Gears of War + Tomb Raider ripoff
The Last of Us - a ripoff of the zombie trend that was going on at the time
>>320573328
>>320573463
More liked, fixed others' shit.
>>320573506
nice rebuttal. that was a really great thoughtful way to refute my points. I'm amazed at how wrong I was.
>>320573328
lol
>>320573601
Dude it's just a game.
>>320573463
3/10. Good effort and got me to reply.
>>320573593
pretty much.
>>320573463
Hate this kind of logic. Mario can be said to be a Pac-Land clone, Zelda can be said to be a Dragonslayer clone, etc.
>>320573732
he's right though. ripoff doesn't mean bad game. naughty dog has never been innovative, they're just good at polishing other people's ideas.
>>320573593
>fixed others' shit.
Hahaha. With the exception of maybe CTR, they made the inferior gameplay every time.
>>320573886
>Crash 2
>Inferior to any other 3D platformer at the time.
>>320572239
> Implying TLOU's soundtrack isn't
lel ok
>>320573653
>>320573506
I'm not going to baby you. Watch this entire segment and how the story and new characters are introduced. This is masterclass storytelling. And the way the relationship between flynn, chloe, and drake unfolds exposition-wise is perfectly in tune with the theme of the game: "(dis)honor among thieves"
>>320573956
It's probably the best out of the 3, but even at the time game reviewers thought it was inferior to a whole bunch of platformers.
Crash 2 is definitely not a classic. Maybe a semi-classic. A solid 8.8 game.
The jetpack levels just killed it. Worst controls ever.
>>320573069
SCEE is better.Just like in real life
>>320573463
>>320573653
>>320573693
>>320573506
>>320572239
this was the segment i was talking about >>320574090 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Ee_aCchmM
>>320574095
>game reviewers from 97
>relevant
>not a classic
Because it was not made by ninty amirite?
>>320574130
I just like the way the announcer emphasizes the America part. Sounds better to me to be quite honest family
>>320574095
>2 levels out of 27 killed the game
>>320574329
The reviewers were a bit more honest back then.
And it's not because it wasn't made by Nintendo, CTR would be a genuine classic if it didn't ripoff Diddy Kong Racing so hard. I read their development interviews. The very first level they MADE for the game was a copy of DKR's Crescent Island track.
I appreciate the enhancements they made to the boost mechanics though.
>Playing Unfarted
>enjoying Unfarted
>>320574516
I thought we were talking about Crash 2.
What other 3D "platformer" was better at the time?
>>320561962
Nothing really.
I used to harp on them for leaving behind more cartoon aesthetic games, but if they are not inspired to do them, then there's no point in continuing to do them. They can always change their mind and go that direction in the future.
>>320574639
wow that's a really intelligent commentary on why you dislike the series. Thank you for the insightful reasoning.
>>320574640
Mario 64
Spyro the Dragon
Banjo-Kazooie
Rayman 2
>>320574886
>collectathons
>>320561962
They used to make lots of fun games
Now they make these cinematic trash that panders to casuals.
I prefer old dog.
>>320574934
>gems and crystals aren't collecting
>>320575147
Tight platforming that's a direct evolution from 2D > Mindless gems and stars collecting in an "open" sandbox
>>320561962
Interracial kissing sjw Jew propaganda shit and agenda
>>320575242
>direct evolution from 2D
More like devolution considering you can't adjust your camera to determine the depth of your jumps.
Crash Bandicoot 1 to 3 were just an inferior rehash of 2D platformers except with a 3D graphic gimmick.
At least the exploration platformers were new and suited 3D.
>>320575501
>you can't adjust your camera to determine the depth of your jumps
>>320575145
Once again, thank you for disregarding all earlier posts. If anything, platformers are for casuals, and the level naughty dog is on by fusing narrative and gameplay seamlessly wile still maintaining the quality of both is absurd. To be honest, I want to know what games YOU play because you honetly sound like a nintenbabbie casual from the sound of it. If you don't ONLY play rts's or srpg's then I think you have no right throwing around the phrase "casual." Have you ever even beat any of the Uncarted's or The Last of Us on the hardest difficulty? Do you even pay attention to the writing and how it blow the FUCK out of praised narratives like Metal Gear's?
Yes, Metal Gear sports novel ideas, but the execution and explanation of them is shoddy, forced, pretentious, tonally haphazard and masked by drudging gameplay. With Naughty Dog, there is nuance and layers to their stories while maintaining balance in pacing, difficulty, level design, etc. Just because you don't like movie doesn't mean these types of realistic narratives are inherently bad, it just means you have an excruciating bias.
they have programmers that literally write renderers for the PS3/PS4 from scratch and they still can't do 60 FPS
if sony wasn't funding them they'd be irrelivent a long time ago
They've never made a good game, that's what I think of them.
>>320576557
Uncharted 4 multiplayer is pretty much solid 60 fps, so I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. The only reason Nintendo hits 60fps is because their games aren't demanding whatsoever and the ones that are run @ 720p.
>>320567531
>enemies ignore teammates like they are invisible
I recall having to save Ellie quite a few times from an infected.
As for normal enemies, it was an anti-frustration feature to avoid something similar to Sonic the Hedgehog 3 where you would be spotted because your companion stepped by himself in front of the security cameras.
>>320576621
>They've never made a game I like
Is that what you meant to say? I'd REALLY like to see what taste in games you have. Lemme guess, you like Metal Gear and Splatoon. Do you even know the basic fundamentals of writing? The Metal Gear stories are on the same level as Gears in terms of breaking standard writing conventions and being hilariously/cringeworthily bad.
>>320561962
Don't really have any qualms. The thing is their recent games receive widespread acclaim and are literally touted as Playstation's mascot franchises despite being boring generic shit. Makes me feel bad for Playstation kind of
They used to make Crash Bandicoot, then they went on to make Jak and Daxter.
Now they make movies.
It might sound like just a meme, but look at the games for what they are. TLoU and Uncharted games are obviously movies, they have movie plots, movie characters, movie cinematography in cutscenes, quick time events, etc.
In short, rest in piss, Naughty Dog.
>>320562109
>And as I can see most of you detractors will say "but, but, the games are piss-easy and these controllable moments are handholdy with little interaction," NO. You people are wrong.
>Say something right
>NO. You people are wrong.
Ok.
>>320561962
They let shitty remasters be released
my qualm is that they don't make games anymore
Man, this board is fucking FULL of manchildren. Maybe the reason why ND stopped making garbage like Crash and J&D is because there isn't a market for it anymore and shit like Uncharted/TLoU has a bigger audience. Just look at how irrelevant Nintendo and its shitty platformers have become in the industry while games with narrative and big budgets are actually selling and getting awards.
>>320573732
Too bad he's right about Crash racing and TLOU
>>320561962
they got talent and are smart people. I mean there is a reason why the ICE team is there. However, they need to get their heads out of their ass with the cinematic experience shit. I will be done with the studio if the next thing they do is TLOU 2.
>>320577272
Does the audience for Uncharted/TLOU being bigger somehow justify those games being generic normalfag shit? No.
>>320576959
I've never played a single Metal Gear game and I couldn't get into Splatoon because I can no longer do console shooters. You're reaching.
Crash Bandicoot was a lackluster 3D platformer game with poor presentation and a main character that was just an also-ran in the extremely overcrowded "cool animal mascot" fad of the 90s. Jak & Daxter was an unimpressive 3D platformer that played like Banjo-Kazooie (another unimpressive game). Uncharted is a cinematic third-person shooter that ripped its premise off of Tomb Raider hard (not coincidentally another unimpressive video game series) with presentation that means you can skip the $60 price tag and watch the whole thing on YouTube and miss nothing of value. As for The Last of Us, see Uncharted. Anything pre-Crash Bandicoot is so laughably bad it isn't even worth discussing.
For a video game developer to be making video games for almost 30 years and not make a single good one is extremely sad.
>>320577148
oh it's nice to see you completely ignore what I said afterwards. Have you ever even played any of the games? Have you played any of jeep, collapsing building, helicopter, horse, etc. segments on the hardest difficulty? What games do you like, huh? I don't know HOW many times I have to say this. You can have a PREFERENCE and dislike cinematic games because they're not your style and you dislike movies in general, but when you crticize them just to be contrarian or say Uncharted and The Last of Us are shit for minor flaws or personal preference reason EVEN THOUGH Naughty Dog capitalizes and beautifully molds diffuculty, narrative, gameplay, etc. together, you're being inane and ignorant.
Also criicisms on Uncharted being unoriginal are fucking retarded. That's like saying Indian Jones is shit because it's a pastiche of adventure serials and classic hollywood blockbusters. It's the STORYTELLING not the fucking surface-level plot. Do you fucking understand the fundamentals of writing?
>>320577724
What the fuck are you talking about?? The reason people love the Uncharted series and the Last of Us is because it WONDERFULLY melds gameplay and narrative. Yes there are flaws, but they are BRIDGING the gap and they've near perfected it based on what I've seen from Uncharted 4 with the extra depths of nonlinearity they're exploring. The seamless integration of story and diverse, intuitive, well-paced and challenging gameplay is why Uncharted is so popular. It's NOT because "oh it's not dark souls where story is completely buried and gameplay is at the forefront and it's a shooter, so it's casual dudebro trash."
>>320578204
Melding gameplay and narrative is wrong. These are video games. Gameplay is first. Story is 6th or so.
>>320578456
Its fucking 2015, there is literally nothing wrong with including stories and narratives in games. Do you think shit like Mario is the pinnacle of videogames still?
>>320561962
>Qualms
I don't like there new games and think they're overrated as fuck but i have no issue with them as a dev. I do miss when they made games purely centered around gameplay. I stopped caring when they turned Jak from awesome platformer adventure game to edgemas maximus
>>320578591
>with including stories and narratives
Since when is acknowledging that stories should be there but be about 6th in priority not including them at all?
>>320577724
this turbo autist has been projecting all night and ignoring valid arguments.
I'd advise you to stay away. I just came back in this thread shocked it's still going
>>320577454
How the fuck is Uncharted and The Last of Us normalfag shit JUST because the stories are a pastiche of the best parts of classic and modern Hollywood. It just sounds like you're up your own fucking ass too much to realize that something doesn't have to be weird and completely unrealistic to be of any merit. It's as if you're saying the only games of merit are completely out-there Dreamcast games and NOTHING else. There is an underlying level of maturity, thought, nuance, and depth to Naughty Dog's new series that separates them from Halo, Gears, Tomb Raider, or other series that try to pull off the same focused narrative campaign-based cinematic style.
>>320578591
"Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important."
-John Carmack
>>320578754
It's simple, the majority of /v/ has autism and can't handle normal stories from ND, and they're not even that complicated. No wonder everyone here parrots the same mindless opinions.
>>320578591
>>320578840
Its funny because i do think DOOM is the pinnacle of shooters atleast and possibly all game it has
1.A active community that keeps popping out content
2. Its gameplay never gets old because its skill intensive as fuck despite being so simple because of how fundamental it is
3. Its sprites are charming as fuck and have overall aged well
4. It never feels like control is out of the players hands
5. Its probably the fastest Single player shooter outside of maybe rocket jumping through Quake levels.
Doom is the pinnacle. Its lore is also really interesting to a degree.
>>320578905
THANK YOU. It feels like I've been trying to reasonably argue with a brick wall for the past 2 hours.
>>320579051
You've been spouting one logical fallacy after the next for 2 hours?
Why are you even here?
>>320579051
>Someone agrees with me
>WOW THANK YOU UR RIGHT TOO XD
Kill yourself.
>>320561962
I quite like their current output for what it is. Most complaints seem to stem from what it isn't, which I feel is unfair in a lot of cases.
>>320578905
>can't handle normal stories
What's a "normal story"? How is it even possible to not "handle" a normal story? Basically they don't like it because it gets in the way of them experiencing the gameplay.
>>320561962
They're too good. I just can't handle it. If they released another oldschool Crash Bandicoot game I'd probably shrivel up and die playing it rather than take water and potty breaks.
they make boring "cinematic" games for people too dumb for movies but too pretentious for video games
>>320579367
see this is reasonable.>>320579317
You don't HAVE to think they're the fucking best with what they do right now. But to outright call them shit and THEN continue call everything prior they did shit? That just sounds like a fucking bias more than anything especially when your points for illustrating why they're shit are so surface-level and minor.
>You hate them for different design decisions after 6th gen
They can make whatever games they want and it seems like they love it and still do it for the craft rather than money-scheming. They're fucking ending Uncharted even though people want more because they've artistically come down to a tasteful and sensible conclusion for the series
>you hate them for being exclusive
they're exclusive because of Sony and Sony gives them fucking money to channel their vision and to progress the medium. I'm SORRY that you have a hate-boner for Sony even though Sony is giving money out left and right for all these artistic games and endeavors even though they know they won't make them that much of a return on investment (aka Last Guardian)
>you hate them because they're unoriginal
they take and apply from INFLUENCES. They still make their shit unique enough from a storytelling and design aspect.
They haven't made a good game since 2006
>>320580103
I dislike the direction Naughty Dog has gone since the beginning of the PS3 era.
Action Adventure platformers/third person shooters where neither mechanic is very well fleshed out aren't very entertaining to me.
I don't hate them as a company and I think they have a lot of talent. But the games they've made in the past gen are disappointing, they just aren't very fun to play. Lot of interactive sequences involving moving along ledges or pressing QTEs with very little skill involved. Then the shooting is just that. It's serviceable but bland. Only two guns, overpowered melee when it's one on one.
I've stopped caring about their work since the beginning of the PS3. How about that.
>>320580827
See now THIS is better. We may not agree, but we can agree to disagree. At least you described thoroughly how you felt about their direction/style and what turns you off from them. This is MUCH better than "oh cinematic, it's shit. oh dudebro, it's shit. oh sony, it's shit." people need to be thoughtful and well-spoken with their responses and opinions.
>>320581147
where do you think we are etc etc
>153 with 55 posters and most having the same long winded posts with the same grammar and wording
Aren't you bored op?
As a developer, Naughty Dog has always tried to just jump on whatever is popular at the time
The biggest example of this is Way of the Warrior, a Atlante Mortal Kombat rip off
They aren't a bad dev, but it boggles my mind when people act as if they are original when Jak's jump from 1 to 2 was just trying to ride off of the success of GTA3, Uncharted was trying to be a cover based TPS like Gears of War, and The Last of Us is a zombie game no matter how you slice it
>>320562005
I like what this guy posted.
Naughty Dog is also one of the few truly good devs at coding, and they can make hardware sing. They do have a good sense of level design and action too.
>>320582117
>Atlante
blatant, misclicked on the correction suggestions
