Let's have a tactics game thread. I want to play a tactics game. Ideally a new one. I'll recommend the ones I like and talk about why. I'd appreciate recommendations.
Jagged Alliance 2 1.13:
The good:
Probably the best in the genre. Strategic gameplay as well as tactical, mercs with personality, tons of variety in how you approach things, good ability to micro your actions in combat, a ridiculous ability to micro equipment, and a variety of tactics that all work. It's got a great suppression system, which make auto weapons genuinely useful as something other than another way to kill them directly. Gonna play this I think if nobody recommends something good.
The bad:
It's kinda dated. The 1.13 mod does a lot to make it more manageable, and the UI gets a bit better. Still, it's a bit irritating at first, and it looks worse than a Bethesda game. You'll be looking up keyboard shortcuts to do things a lot. Also, the Drassen counterattack is bullshit, and I feel like the strategic game rewards you too much for sitting on your ass, building up cash, and buying the best equipment available to you at the moment before doing anything. It's also a little annoying to install.
>>319693981
Wrong image. Oops.
Frozen Synapse:
The good:
Incredible soundtrack. Cool looking art style. Procedurally generated levels. Simultaneous turn based - plan out your unit's actions and the opponent does the same. A few seconds are simulated before you repeat. Heavily focused on planning. Good UI, and the ability to very specifically plan out what all your units do. Luck isn't a factor at all.
The bad:
It's pretty simple. I'm kind of in the mood for complexity along the lines of JA2. It's definitely got a lot of depth, but it's emergent depth from a number of simple rules. Can feel like absolute bullshit when you guess your opponent's moves incorrectly and your units sit and do something obviously stupid given the new information available to them.
XCOM 2012 with Long War:
The good:
It's well designed. Look up Beaglerush's live and impossible series to see the kind of depth that exists in tactical combat. It's pretty and the soundtrack's okay. You get attached to your soldiers. It's got a strategic layer.
The bad:
Strategic layer is lacking hugely, especially if you play without Long War. It feels incredibly gamey. The tactical phase does too to a lesser extent. Long War is good, but they're not kidding about long. It gets pretty tedious. Expect to spend a couple hundred hours on winning a single campaign. Also, while Long War is far superior to the base game, it does make a couple questionable decisions.
>>319693981
Am I the only one who really hated Long War? When it was still XCOM:EU, It felt like a less enjoyable experience than Warspace Extension despite the latter amounting to only a little bit more than number tweaks.
>>319697538
It's flawed. But I like how the strategic layer turns into something more than just rushing satellites. I like the class expansion too.
The good:
Stealth
Randomized levels and items each playthrough
The combat itself isn't random
The bad:
No base building
Character customization could have been more in-depth
The line of sight of the guards is a little too stupid
One of 2015's gems, highly recommended. Make sure to turn off rewinds.
>>319698572
Grabbing now. Sounds flawed but fun.
Not sure whether it quite fits in here since it's a different kind of tactics game from the ones posted so far, but I've been playing the demo of Scourge of War lately and been enjoying it quite a lot.
It simulates chain of command and communication via couriers between commanders, which makes for some pretty interesting gameplay especially if you play as something higher than a brigade commander.
Sad thing is that going up the chain and coordinating with other Divisions/Corps doesn't really work with AI, so I'm really considering dropping 50 bucks on the Steam version to maybe get some proper multiplayer since noone plays the demo's multiplayer.
>>319700253
I actually wouldn't say it's incredibly flawed, just don't expect XCOM level of depth.
And yeah, the guard line of sight is stupid specifically when they're walking through doors and can't see you standing right next to them, it just looks silly at first, but you accept it as a game mechanic. AI is always retarded in stealth games, this is just no exception.
>>319693981
Play DoorKickers, easily one of the best tactical games i played, very easy to pick up and play and quite hard to master.
If you liked doing tactical planning in Rainbow Six 1,2 and 3, you will love this, it can take up to 20 or 30 minutes of planning just to unfold a 20 second action of your squad completly reking everything and saving hostages, defuse a bomb or shit like that.
And dont get me started in the content, there a fuck ton of maps, 5 camping and custom made maps.
Best 3$ i spent all year easily.
>>319700424
>doesn't run on Vista
welp
>>319700461
I do like turn based stealth, so I'm actually pretty excited.
>>319700424
I like HoI. This might be good too.
>>319701648
If you like turn based stealth and JA, play Satelite Regin, cant recommend that game enough.
Seriously get that shit and play it, you wont regret it.
>>319698572
>no base building
what kind of a complaint is this?
anyway invisible inc is great, played the shit out of it. all of /v/ totally ignored it because it's not a meme game.
>>319694313
something I really like about frozen synapse is how you can just start a bunch of games with a friend and play the first turn while they aren't about, they show up at some point and play a couple of turns. I find it pretty difficult to play other vidya with m8s because people are busy at different times or only want to play a short time.
>>319702009
It's not really a complaint, I guess it's just because it's so easy to compare to XCOM. But considering that Klei is a much smaller team and still mange to make consistently good games instead of farting out shit like Beyond Earth, it can be forgiven.
>>319701593
Sure it's the OS? On the site it says Vista is supported.
>>319701648
Hearts of Iron? Not sure whether I'd compare it to that other than both being more hardcore history sims. It reminds me a lot of Graviteam Tactics, just set in Civil War/Waterloo and all the CoC actually there instead of just implied like in GT and without the strategical map stuff.
>>319701896
I grabbed a version about six months ago I think? It ran like shit on my computer, but I expect optimization to improve. I'm excited for it and it seems like exactly the sort of thing I want. Only real complaint is that when I played it it was locked into real time. No pausing or turn based or anything. It was also pretty light on content, but it's in development.
>>319702009
PBEM. It's a good system for games like that.
>>319702226
HoI is heavily focused on supplies and logistics. Different scale though, obviously.
>>319702176
they made a really great formula with invisible inc. it's a stealth game, but it's not a 'restart/quickload every time someone sees you' game. every game mechanic is really pretty good. I only wanted more level types and more interesting characters.
Y'all niggas HAVE to play 7.62 High Caliber, it's a great game.
>>319702319
What makes a good stealth game IMO is one in which you're not punished just for being spotted. That is, you use stealth to pick unfair fights, and you don't worry about getting 1HKOs. The game punishes you for allowing information to spread, not for allowing some isolated enemy to know you're there. Would you say Invisible does this?
>>319702386
I've heard it compared to JA2.
>>319702386
Nigga i bought that game on the sales, it ran like shit and i just couldn't put up with the cameras.
I even played Man Of Prey and that shit catched my attention more than 7.62
>>319702438
you are punished for being spotted, but not necessarily more than waiting in cover for multiple turns. you need to complete your mission quickly. sometimes you'll take an alarm counter hit deliberately to be fast. and yeah, absolutely no save-scrubbing. I think this arrangement is ideal.
I agree with what you say about stealth games though. even if they only offer you a 'never detected' bonus or whatever, it really bothers me. how about if I get detected I get covered in guards and I probably die. the bonus should be that that doesn't happen.
>>319702772
It's a huge issue in DXHR. There's just this compulsion to reload as soon as you're spotted.
I like games that reward misdirection as well. Throw a rock or something or fire your gun and then circle around. That kind of thing. Not many do, though.
Anyone know any heist focused games, btw? Ideally open ended in terms of missions you take, strategic layer, heavily planning focused. Only one I'm aware of is They Stole a Million which is an ancient 1980s C64 game.
>>319703026
I think there's one called Masterplan on Steam. Haven't played it and am kinda curious about it myself, it looks kinda like Doorkickers.
>>319703026
I think in DXHR it's bigger than a stealth issue. the game is supposedly a thing where you can choose stuff, but then the game massively penalises you if you aren't stealthy and nonviolent, and if you don't hack. if you get spotted or make a load of noise, you shouldn't lose your ghost points or whatever, you should get your shit shot up and have a bad time.
>>319703302
Games should really be rewarding for objectives completely rather than people killed/not being seen or whatever. See VTMB.
>>319703680
for sure. the first deus ex did this. I think you got a little for some exploration, but there was none of this bullshit like 20 exp for knocking someone out, 10 exp for killing them, 0 exp for avoiding them.
>>319701457
Doorkickers is pretty cool, though I wish it had a little more sophisticated waypoint system.
