Which Final Fantasy has the best story? I want to feel immersed in the story, meet loveable characters and find myself lost in the world.
Combat doesn't really bother me.
https://www.strawpoll.me/10643582
>>343471068
No FF has a great story. But there's some good ones.
4 felt a little melodramatic for me
5 was good for as much as I played but I didn't finish it
6 was okay the first time through. The only problem I had with it is that because there's so many characters very little attention is paid to anyone's characterization.
7 is a lot of people's favorite even though 7 is the story of a group of mentally fucked up individuals going to kill even more fucked up individuals. There's still debate as to whether Tifa was waifu of the year or a selfish brat
8 I sorely disliked. It'd take a wall of text to explain it but it comes down to the story put entirely too much attention on Rinoa and the big twist is irredeemably stupid
Never played 9
10 is a polarizing game, the people who like it really like it and the people who hate it really hate it. I'm in the camp of people who like it, I found it was done generally well dodging voice acting aside
Never played 11 or 12
13...I can't say anything about 13 that hasn't already been said.
>>343471068
Final fantasy 7
>>343471640
played some of it and it felt extremely mediocre, I feel like it's peoples nostalgia talking, game is simply not for me
>>343471854
It might be nostalgia but there's actually a lot to talk about in that game. Like people underestimate how big that game is and there were a lot of memorable character moments.
I'm also in the camp where I think it's overrated as fuck. Like people treat it like it's mana from heaven and that it didn't have shitty translations and plot holes. But as a whole I still fucking love me some 7.
>>343471068
Talking story only: 6>9>8. The rest have shit stories. 2 had potential but it was executed badly.
>>343472182
I like 2's shit just got real moment. Like when the Emperor is not only back but he's also the new lord of hell and then offs Ricard. That was a great moment.
>>343472340
As a side, 2 killed a shitload of characters
>>343471068
It's a toss up between 6 and 7 for me.
>>343472003
>plot holes
Such as?
>>343472484
That's part of the "executed badly". They could have made it much better instead of
>Oh this guy dies by the way (cue the game over theme for a few seconds and move on)
Tactics. Best gameplay, best story, best Final Fantasy forever. Its only flaw is that it's incredibly easy to break but same goes for every other FF game.
>>343471068
IX helped me with my depression, I've never felt so much emotion (from happiness to sadness)
and I dont think I've ever felt as good and happy playing a game.
I really lost myself in that game and it was the first time I've cried in years, not due to sad moments or anything but because of how satisfactory it was.
Play IX, trust me.
>>343471068
X has the best narrative. 12 has political intrigue. 13 has the best lore. 8 is pretty romantic. 4 is pretty melodramatic. 6 probably has the best dialogues. 7 has characters people seem to like the most. 9 is shit. Take your pick.
>>343471068
For story I'd say FFVI.
>>343472842
Well a big one involves Tifa and Cloud. So in Mideel Cloud and Tifa fall into the Lifestream and Tifa's conciousness is sent into Cloud's brain so she can put him back together and my first question is "why the hell does Cloud get Mako Poisoning from being dunked in Mako but Tifa doesn't?" Isn't the point that having that much memory and knowledge shoved into your brain at the same time destroys your own personality and you're left a gibbering, wheelchair bound mess? So why does Tifa not only unaffected by it but even benefits from it?
>>343472842
Tifa never contradicting Cloud while he thinks he is Zack.
Aeris never contradicting or questions Cloud's story about being a solider which sounds suspiciously similar to her old boyfriends experiences.
>>343474396
>Tifa never contradicting Cloud while he thinks he is Zack.
This is addressed it's just that the explanation is weak. Tifa states that initially when she heard Cloud's story that she was so taken aback by how different it is to what she remembers that she thought maybe her injuries made her remember wrong. Then when she realized that she was right and Cloud was just a crazy loon that she began supporting his delusions out of fear that Cloud is too fragile. If he were to learn the truth then he would shatter entirely.
Aeris is harder to explain. She at least knew before her death that Cloud was lying about his story and that she wasn't seeing the real him but beyond that it could've been dismissed that the two stories were just suspiciously similar.
What I don't get is why Sephiroth was sent to Nibelheim. Cloud I'm going to assume they didn't give a fuck about but they know Sephiroth's "mom" is in there. They sent Sephiroth to the ONE town that could cause him to go crazy.
>>343473787
>Cloud has a weak minded, that's a BIG PLOT POINT
>you need a strong mind to withstand mako, that's a BIG PLOT POINT
>SOLDIERs are literally strong minded people infused with mako, that's a BIG PLOT POINT
>Sephiroth's entire plan revolves around absorbing the entire lifestream aka mako, BIG PLOT POINT
>Tifa has a strong mind and will and can therefore withstand mako long enough to connect with Cloud within the lifestream, I seriously hope I don't have to explain the lifestream to you
Go play the game. Half of your question is answered literally right after the part you're fucking pointing at you dumb fuck.
4's story isn't that bad.
But then again it's been 20 years.
10's background story isn't bad either, but the development sucks.
So yeah, I'll go with the vanilla answer: 6
I picked 6 but it could've just as easily been 7. There's no real "masterpiece" storywise when it comes to FF but some are better than others.
>>343475404
>Weak hand waved justifications that never actually explain why something works a certain way are a BIG PART OF THIS GAME and that makes every plot whole alright.
It's VII OP, don't listen to anyone else in this thread.
VII and VI.
>>343475404
Nothing there indicates that Tifa's mind is sufficiently strong to hold up against the torrent of knowledge and memory in the Lifestream. Especially considering that Sephiroth being able to survive at all is considered an anamoly and Sephiroth was specifically engineered to be physically better than everyone ever. With alien DNA no less.
The only possible explanation you can concoct is that because Jenova herself doesn't diffuse in the Lifestream that it had some hand in anchoring both Cloud and Sephiroth but then it still leaves a big gaping hole because Tifa does not have Jenova cells and therefore there's not reason at all for Tifa to be able survive within the Lifestream.
So no matter how you slice it it's still wrong
>>343476065
>Meme answer
>>343476154
>It can't be true because my headcanon is Jenova cells, son
That's not how it works
If you want to pull that shit I can say Aeris helped and be done with it
13
![tumblr_lhq501wpVs1qzu9yi[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/F6BdQxE.jpg "tumblr_lhq501wpVs1qzu9yi[1].jpg")
Play Radiata Stories instead. The characters are very well written and feel real.
I never beat FF13-2 or FF7 even though I was on the last boss
was just too weak and undergeared
should I replay them?
>>343471068
Story? Maybe 6
Job system? 5
World building? 7
Play 6 or 4 though. They're both pretty fucking good.
>>343476414
Not the person you're responding to but powers of Jenova cells are incredibly poorly defined in FF VII and I think the poster was trying to come up with a plausible answer for the issues with FF VII and the life stream within the confines of the game.
Hand waving it and saying Aeris = magic help is the type of response square would have used and furthers his point that FF VII's story is not a good, it has flaws and holes but you fanboys can't accept any criticism of it because your playstation loved you more than your parents or some equally edgy bullshit.
>>343476510
Go for it.
Can someone tell me what fuck is going on in ffx
>>343476727
> World Building 7: citation needed.
You're gonna have to justify that answer anon because I'm not sure you know what world building is.
>>343476890
Not him but Midgar was pretty incredible. It went downhill right after you leave though unfortunately.
>>343476889
It's very self explanatory. What didn't you understand?
I just got the airship in ff4
what do I even do now?
>>343476991
I agree with you but my issue with the other poster was that one cool decaying cityscape isn't world building, especially when the rest of the world is more like traditional final fantasy.
And the same 'oddly high tech city' area has been a staple of Final Fantasy long before 7.
>>343476889
The basic idea is that there was the big war and the only way for one side to win the war was to summon a giant, demonic space whale to destroy the other side and sacrifice an entire city just to make a ghost version of the city just so it can stay alive forever. The only problem is that said whale was impossible to control and instead of just destroying the enemy, the whale just up and destroyed everybody it could find. And anytime anyone killed it it would just come back right back and go back to fucking the world over.
So everyone just got used to dying constantly and sent summoners to kill the whale for a few years. Oh right so the ghost city was living on its own chilling until one of the ghosts got out and made it to the mainland. Which set a chain in motion to kill said space whale.
>>343471068
IX.
asshurt soulsfags who represent the former summerag turned NEET generation will argue this.
>>343473412
this opinion is unspeakably bad. i wish I could refute it with logical arguments but the wrongness defies words
>>343472340
Dont forget when the empire destroys literally all but one town in the game.
>>343477414
Go to the city in northeast surrounded by forest.
>>343477787
IX is pretty much cool to hate now, IX was, is and will always be one of Square's masterpieces.
IX is the best FF, has the best characters, story, feeling, charm, everything expect battle and maybe aesthetics.
But give it some time, it will begin to be cool to like IX for being ''underrated'' or hated, the cycle continues, now we are praising VII because it was cool to hate on VII because it was too popular, but now it is too popular to hate VII so VII is liked again.
This shit is always the same.
>>343478298
>>343478298
FF IX was just a cheap attempt to appeal to nostalgiafags.
>>343478717
Except FFIX was my first FF and I got into the series somewhat recentl. The game is simply great.
>>343478298
>everything expect battle
So one of the most important parts in a video game?
>now we are praising VII because it was cool to hate on VII because it was too popular
People hated VII because they couldn't separate the insufferable fanbase of the previous decade from the game itself. The popularity of Kingdom Hearts did not help that.
>it will begin to be cool to like IX for being ''underrated''
That already happened years ago. When people realised that they could admit to enjoying VII and keep it separate from the fanbase all of a sudden people started noticing that IX fans had been praising their game as a masterpiece for years without anyone to actually tell them it's seriously flawed because they were too busy shitting on 6 and 7. 9 isn't cool to hate, but you morons lift it up so high in comparison to what it actually is that it's ridiculous. As such the criticisms for the game started rolling in big time.
It's very easy to just wave your hand and say it's all a big cycle when it's really not. It's more of a case of tall poppy syndrome if anything. The more a game in the series gets unwarranted praise the more it gets criticised.
VI
By far. It's a masterpiece
>>343478717
>what is ffxii but an attempt to appeal to ffviii fags
>what is ffxii but an attempt to appeal to star wars fags
>what is ffviii but an attempt to appeal to ffvii shitters
>what is ffvii but an attempt to appeal to commie/environmentalist bleeding heart morons
>what is ffvi but an attempt to write a story, any story, no matter how generic
FFIX is the only FF to actually approach story telling with any sort of seriousness and originality.
>>343479098
You completely missed his point because you didn't play previous games first. 9 is nothing but throwbacks to the past 8 games. Even Necron outta nowhere is just Zeromus again.
It's a good game but it's nothing spectacular. The highs of the previous games rise far beyond what 9 achieves, which is to be expected when it doesn't do a single new thing of its own.
>>343479492
>FFIX is the only FF to actually approach story telling with any sort of seriousness and originality.
Yes, because Zidane and Kuja being Goku and Raditz ripoffs is certainly original.
>>343471068
Crystal Chronicles. Fight me
>>343479546
After going back and playing the other games its obvious that IX has take many ideas and made many references, but the game itself was original for the way it approached things and the way they were executed, it may have many tropes and all but it is still an amazing game on its own and it can also be original because if you didnt play the previous games you wouldnt even think it was a sort of love letter, its not like its retarded references or straight up taking ideas from the other games (without changing them at all)
Having the dwarves say ''Ralley-ho'' and stuff like that doesnt hurt the game nor does it make it any less original because their design and purpose is still different along other things.
Necron has an explanation but it uses foreshadowing, symbolism and metaphores and its not easy to explain and structure it well in 10 minutes, I should just write a pasta about Necron but no, he is not just the typical baddie who wants to end the world for no reason.
Look D E E P E R.
>>343479226
Even though you said somethings I agree (FFIX fans being sometimes obnoxious) I dont understand why you called out on me saying that the battles werent good, they are good enough for FF but thats not saying much, ofc it isnt FFV or FFX battle system but its still ok.
>>343477984
Exactly. You can't.
>>343471068
>I want to feel immersed in the story, meet loveable characters and find myself lost in the world.
Definitely sounds like IX would be for you.
>>343473412
>12 has political intrigue
So a snorefest that nobody paid attention to.
>>343471068
>I want to feel immersed in the story, meet loveable characters and find myself lost in the world
Then play something other than Final Fantasy. Try the Witcher.
>>343477720
Actually, Zanarkand lost the war. Sin was his way of preserving the city and denying Bevelle a victory. So yeah, he pretty much destroyed his own city and then rage-quit. Then Bevelle got ass mad that they couldn't have a victory so they stole everything Yu Yevon stood for and said it was their religion. Yunalasca sacrificed herself to be immortal and help perpetrate the myth that Sin could be destroyed if they all repented.
>>343480537
At its core, it has some good lessons, but it was very ham-fisted about the way it executed it. Showing both sides of the story would've made for deeper characters, I think.
>>343473412
>13 has the best lore
>>343479680
and lightning being a cloud rip off, who is a mad max (among many others) rip off, and squall (who is also a cloud rip off) and vaan (who the creators literally acknowledged is a placeholder) or basch (who is han solo) or yuna/terra who are totally not joan of arc types should be excused.
Every story is derivative to some degree, just most final fantasies more than others, and at least IX's derivativeness fleshes out its characters instead of relying on the audience knowing the archetype to fill in the writers laziness insofar as character development goes
>>343480147
>I should just write a pasta about Necron but no, he is not just the typical baddie who wants to end the world for no reason.
Necron has his reasons, but the point was that it's stupid to go chasing after Kuja through 4 discs only to kill him and discover that the final boss is some nigger who has to destroy the world because the crystal went kaput. Which is exactly what the issue with Zeromus was.
>I dont understand why you called out on me saying that the battles werent good
Because IX has one of the worst battle systems in the series, that's why. There's a serious delay between when you input your commands when they're carried out for absolutely no reason. In addition to this is the awful trance mechanic which is also the worst implementation of a limit break in the series.
>>343480775
literally star wars
>>343480782
It was. There was enough lore to fill 3 games.
>>343473412
>X has the best narrative
You mean some whiny pissant waffling on about it being "his story" even though he had the least amount of relevance to it?
>13 has the best lore
Kek, it couldn't even explain it properly without datalogs.
>>343480823
i really dont personally get why people are hugely upset about the slow pace of FFIX battles. Sure it can be annoying but it introduces some conservatism to the strategy and doesnt really disadvantage the player in any way.
From an overall game perspective its really nitpicky compared to the entire experience.
>>343480992
Quality not quantity, otherwise FF7 has the best lore since it has enough to fill 4 games and a movie.
>>343481024
do you not understand the difference between plot and narrative? Sure to the plot Tidus was only ancillary in enabling yuna to find the moral strength to change Spira. In terms of narrative however, he was central to her journey and transformation.
>>343477171
FINAL FANTASY X-2.5 actually
>>343480790
Squall isn't a Cloud rip off, and how is Yuna/Terra a Joan of Arc type? Yuna is just a priestess on a trip with a rag tag bunch of losers while Terra just gets caught up in a rebellion.
>>343481105
Pretty much this, and if it really is the only complain, then thats fine, all the other aspects are absolutely great, so its ok.
And lets keep in mind that everyone has their preferences and some entries ressonate more with some persons than others.
For me, IX simply has everything that I enjoy the most and has charm like no other.
>>343481282
This should clear things up
>>343481136
But a lot of that was telling the same shit over and over. There's three different version of the Nibelheim incident for crying out loud. And the lore is never explored, either. It's all "character character character."
>>343481105
I never said slow paced, I said delay. You input a command to attack and then 5 seconds later the character actually carries out the command. This becomes a serious issue when you come up against enemies that cast Heat since you end up telling them to attack, after which they get Heat cast on them, they attack and then they're dead.
>>343481105
Because battle is such a huge part of the game. Ignoring it is the equivalent of saying "this is great if you ignore the shitty parts," which can be true of anything.
>>343481472
Dirge of Cerberus explored the lore. Sure it did a shit job at it, but you could say the exact same for XIII-2 and LR.
>>343481024
>Tidus
>least amount of relevance
Okay, uh huh, sure
>>343481369
You're being a cunt
>>343481546
>>343481567
but it just means you have to change your strategy, not that the game is broken.
Are you actually incapable of playing FFIX differently than you played other FF games?
>>343481773
It plays exactly like most final fantasies, anon. Just a lot slower and way more tedious, which it didn't need to be.
>>343481672
But 13-2 and LR explored the unseen realm, what it meant, and the gods who lied beyond it, which was an integral part of the lore. All DoC did was add some deviant-art tier characters while not explaining shit about the actual lore(Jenova, the Ancients, etc.)
>>343481894
confirmed, couldnt handle marginally different gameplay, and got buttfrustrated by change.
>>343481773
It's not a matter of strategy, it's a matter of being unable to react to heat until it's too late because of a needless delay. The delay doesn't actually slow the game down, the battles are just as fast and play exactly the same as the previous 5 games, only now with a delay that makes you unable to react in time to certain circumstances.
>>343481997
newp 13-2 just wandered around different eras of the same world, while 13-2 wandered around 1 tiny region that included cartoonishly small cities and ridiculously tiny parks as its "zones" then tried to frankenstein some sort of lore together to explain how 13 got to 13-2 to 13-3 even though it made no sense why when in 13 the party wanted to save orphan to keep cocoon alive then killed him at the end, which transitioned into trying to build a new cocoon for some reason in 13-2 even through academia on pulse was a perfectly fine home, to everyone giving the fuck up on life and embracing decline for no reason in 13-3 because "muh bhunivelze" who was never in the lore in the other games - most likely cuz square is lazy shits.
The FFXIII story is a fucking mess that never made any sense, even in the original game.
>>343482126
Seriously, how is the gameplay in battle any different?
>>343482126
>marginally different gameplay
It's not different at all.
>>343482417
So you really didn't understand the lore? Even though it was repeatedly hammered in by the cast? Really? If you want, I can give you a summary.
>>343482568
yah explain why in FFXIII the cast spent the entire shouting how they would defy Barthandelus and not kill orphan until literally the moment they met Orphan, and then killed him.
>>343482743
this. The critical flaw of FFXIII's plot. I never got why we had to do what the villain wanted.
>>343471068
As a personal Final Fantasy lover, I must say it is FFX. Seriously, it's amazing, if you don't mind religion themes.
>>343482568
>>343482743
Didn't think so
>>343483180
The idea is that if they didn't do it then they'd turn into crystal zombies. They decide they don't want to do it. Okay that's fine. Except they don't have anywhere to go with that. There's no alternative plan other than "I wanna kill this stupid guy," "Let's try and link up with Lightning," or "fuck this shit! Let's unfreeze my underage crystal fiance." They spend most of the game either complaining or doing fuck all until the end where they just do what the villain wanted anyway and wish for a miracle.
>>343482743
Okay. I'll skip the lore and just go to the plot. The gist of it is that Barthandelus wants the heroes to destroy Coccoon, which he believes will open the gate into the unseen realm, reuniting him with the Maker Gods. But in order to do so, the heroes have to be strong enough to defeat Orphan, who is responsible for causing Coccoon to float. He maipulates the heroes into going a journey of self discovery until they each gain the requisite strength to defeat Orphan. Then he reveals the truth to them, as the heroes had no idea their focus was to kill Orphan. The heroes manage to escape and goes to Pulse to find a way out of their focus, or if not, to turn into c'ieths there so they won't hurt anyone. But Barthandelus appears before them to tell them he no longer needs them. The army has figured out the truth behind the fal'cie's rule and is now storming into Orphan's Cradle to free themselves from the fal'cies. The heroes rush back in order to stop them from destroying Orphan, but it was all a ruse. Barthandelus had them trapped in Orphan's Cradle with an enraged Orphan, forcing them to fight for their life. During the battle Orphan fuses with Barthandelus to defeat the heroes. Dang transforms into Ragnarok but it isn't enough to defeat the new Orphan/Bart and they turn into c'ieths. But their plight has attracted the attention of Etro, keeper of the gate, who pitied them and reached through the unseen realm to aid them. They transform back into l'cies, and with renewed strength, manages to beat Orphan. As Coccoon plummets from the sky, Fang and Vanille uses Ragnarok to create a crystal pillar to hold Coccoon in the sky, becoming a pair of crystal statues in the center to protect it. The rest of the parties are breifly turned into statues before being restored and everyone lived happily ever after. OR DID THEY??!!?
>>343471068
Many hated X, but I played most ffs and plot wise I had the best experience with ffX, I felt so immersed with the plt and its characters that I'd recommend it to anyone.
t. 29 year old normie who was once a neet with a lot of time, but I'm not even nostalgic with ffX because I played it at 22 I guess
>>343484124
So you see, to add to this, they didn't spend the whole time saying they would defy the bad guy. For a large portion of the game, they weren't even sure what they were supposed to do. But it's easy to think otherwise when you haven't played the game and only parrot what others say.
>>343483940
exactly
>>343484124
so the plot is "resist the bad guy" until at some stage it magically becomes agreed upon, through no discussion of the party "do exactly what the bad guy wants" with the unspoken, desperate hope that " the bad guy is just rusing us and, OH YEAH to overcome the drawbacks of doing what the bad guy wants, a heretofore unknown goddess (WHO ISNT ACTUALLY INTRODUCED UNTIL 13-2) will step in to fix all the bad things the bad guy wanted to happen and only allow good things that we didnt even know we wanted to happen happen.
Oh yeah, and fang and vanille, literally the historic and legendary enemy of cocoon, decide to out of no where become that terrifying threat but save cocoon instead of destroying it (their supposed destiny) for literally no reason.
face it, FFXIII was well produced but a fucking catastrophe in terms of story telling.
>>343484559
Etro gets mentioned multiple times in 13. Same with Pulse and Lindzei. And they didn't know Barthandelus was lying to them. They genuinely though the army was going to march into Orphan's Cradle and kill it without knowing that it would also destroy Cocoon. And they actually did, but they weren't strong enough and had all turned into c'ieth. And Fang was the one who initially tried to destroy Coccoon during the war. It's a major part of her character. She loves Vanille so much that she'd destroy countless lives to save her. In fact, and this is a great character moment, at the end, as they realized they couldn't defeat Orphan and were about to turn into c'ieths, Fang almost killed Vanille because she wanted to spare her the agony of turning into a monster. That's how much she loved her. I don't see how that's bad storytelling. It all makes sense and is actually pretty good for a narrative.
>>343471068
They are all bad anime cliche stories by this time. If you can stomach that shit in 2016 go for it. I think FF6 is what you are after
>>343485213
the party becoming desperate because they thought the army would actually end up killing orphan when they thought that would cause the destruction of cocoon, led to the party deciding to kill Orphan, knowing it would destroy cocoon?
Its marginally believable that fang summoned ragnarok because she only cared about vanille but not that she knew ragnarok could be cocoon's salvation.
From the party's perspective they found Orphan with the full intention of preventing orphan's destruction and then literally at that instant decided to kill it instead. for no reason.
>>343485509
Yeah, it was that or have Orphan kill them. They didn't walk in saying, "hey, we're going to kill Orphan." It was "let's stop the army oh crap they're already dead oh crap this thing is going to kill us."
>>343485213
when does Etro get mentioned in FF13? in XIII-2 she is seems to be a major mythological figure that controls the life/death cycle but in FF13 there doesn't seem to be a firm religious structure, just Fal'cie that provide services to human societies but are never seen as deities.
(another major narrative seam between FF13 and FF13-2)
>>343471485
Tactics has a great story.
>>343485671
so they just decided to kill all of cocoon (to their knowledge) to save themselves? Even though they had previously decided to die to preserve cocoon's society? Makes no sense. Their entire objective was to preserve Orphan and they gave it up without any consideration.
>>343485758
In a datalog, by Barthandelus as he explained his plans to the group, and by Fang when they reached Oerba.
>>343485854
They were going to die, anon, or worse, turn into c'ieths. And Barthandelus wasn't going to stop. He was going to put his plans into motion again and again until he succeeded.
>>343486478
>etro gets a name drop as just another fal cie. doesnt explain her retcon as the ENTIRE GOD OF LIFE AND DEATH
>its ok to knowingly kill everyone in cocoon because the fal cie you tracked down is stronger than you. Bonus! If you die Barthandalelus will just find someone who is stronger and will do his will, so you might as well do what he wants anyway!!!!!
Holy fuck lords, you are retarded, even for a weeb.
>>343486662
Come on. Why are you trying so hard to find a reason to hate this game. That's a perfectly fine story. The gate to the unseen realm, aka where people go when they die is literally called Etro's Gate. She has a pretty strong connection to death already.
>>343482743
>>343483180
>>343483940
>shouting how they would defy Barthandelus and not kill orphan until literally the moment they met Orphan, and then killed him.
>this. The critical flaw of FFXIII's plot. I never got why we had to do what the villain wanted.
Oh boy, you have been listening to Spoony Dumb again, haven't you guys?
You guys never payed attention to what was going on in the plot and got messed up on what happened.
>characters given Focus "Summon Ragnorok and Kill Orphan"
>Bartandelous wants characters to Summon Ragnorok and kill Orphan WITH RAGNOROK to cause the apocalypse and wake up the Maker.
>Bartandelous lies and slips false informations out to cast
>Hope points out that Bartandelous's statment doen't make sense since he's a Cocoon Fal'cie they're Pulse L'cie, and Bartandelous should not know about what their Focus is.
>Cid Raines reveals the truth to the cast about Bartandelous's and the Cocoon Fal'cie plan.
>characters try alternatives to get around Focus but fail
>characters realize Bartandelous is a lying liar who lies and don't kill Orphan WITH Rangorok.
>Instead, they kill Orphan themselves and use Ragnorok to save Cocoon instead.
See? Spoony One has got you all wrapped around your little finger.
The series is riddled with confusion and plot holes. Some of the most moving stories have glaring issues in storytelling and advancement. The games themselves are designed around a neoclassical storytelling format, very few games in the series are modernist or even postmodern. If you ask around you'll find people who tell you that some of the best stories can be found in Final Fantasy VI and Final Fantasy XII. I personally think the best stories are in Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy X, but I don't remember why people dislike the plot in those games very much. As for actual storytelling decides, the series is comprehensive, but it is also very classical in format. You'd do better to play the older games if you wanted to really grasp what the series is like, seeing as how they accurately develop the tone of the whole series. There are some misadventures like Crystal Chronicles and Tactics Advance, which are told very similarly to the mainline games, but it really comes down to what you want out of the series. It's a trip for newer and older players alike.
>>343474396
btw, who was stronger: Zack or Cloud?
I remember someone posting in one these threads awhile back that did an analysis and said something like "since Cloud has to take on Sephiroth as a team and subsequently gets his ass handed to him in AC, Zack was stronger because he went to toe-to-toe with Sephiroth in CC; Cloud as stuck in Genesis/Angeal tier"
XIII has a pretty damn good story and characters but its just presented in an awful fashion such that most people miss it. Fuck Toriyama
>>343487069
>Orphan powers and sustains all of cocoon
>barty wants to kill orphan so the massive death of cocoon forces "the makers" to pay attention and return.
>somehow party, without any information, decides that as long as they kill orphan without summoning ragnaros cocoon probably wont die??? even though nothing they encountered indicated this???
>>13-2 arrives and discards the whole maker idea and just claims etro was always the important god in the ff13 universe and not just your average falcie
>>13-3 arrives and claims that bhunivellze was the god god and discards the whole makers idea instead of some psuedo christian monotheisiam except spoilers God is the bad guy.
So fucking retardedly japanese
>>343487647
Cloud literlly got stabbed by Sephiroth, and while the sword was in him, grabbed it, lifted Sephiroth with it, and threw him, "killing" Sephiroth. This was before he was a subject of the cloning.
>>343487647
Yes but you also have to account for the difference in strength between Nibel and Gaia. In Nibel Sephiroth was a dude with a sword. An extremely powerful and dangerous dude with a sword but a dude with a sword. By the end of the game Sephiroth was on the road to becoming Gaia's god. Like in his own words we was trying to be reborn as a god. So the fact that Cloud and Co. could stand up to him and not die speaks even more for them.
>>343487069
>muh ecelebrity
Kill youself.
>>343471068
For all the shit FF2 gets for having a bassackwards gameplay system, I like its story and music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vayyaVHIGps
>>343487342
people hate FFX because all they have watched is youtube videos of the tidus laugh.
People hate FFVIII and FFIX because they were too young to play it.
Faggots vigoriously defend simpleton shit like ffxii and ffxiii because it was baby's first ff.
NEETlords will defend FFIV-FFVI because it has such a consolidated fanbase and they want to pretend they are oldfags to gain credibility.
>>343487974
I don't really understand what unemployment has to do with taste, but I think most people agree Final Fantasy VII attacks a lot of problems socially that many of the other games do not.
>>343487789
Bruh, they never stated that Etro was a fal'cie. She is a goddess and has always been stated so, even in 13. And Bhunivelze isn't evil. He's neutral. You're really making yourself look bad.
>>343487789
>>Orphan powers and sustains all of cocoon
Correct
>barty wants to kill orphan so the massive death of cocoon forces "the makers" to pay attention and return.
No, he wants to kill Orphan WITH Ragnorok so that the clash would wipe out everything immediately. Remember, Yaach ordered the PSICOM troops to get everybody out of Eden and Cocoon. That's why we see them on the ground in the end of the game
>somehow party, without any information, decides that as long as they kill orphan without summoning ragnaros cocoon probably wont die??? even though nothing they encountered indicated this???
Except that they did. Hope pointed out that what Bartandelous said didn't make any sense since he's a Cocoon Fal'cie and therefore should NOT know their Focus.
Hell, Cid Raines points out that Bartandelous is using them. They know what Bartandelous wants and they know that if what Cid Raines is saying is true, then their Focus =/= Bartandelous's goals.
They say these things out loud. You are just ignoring them to block out the fact that the writer thought ahead of the audience.
>>343487974
No there's a very clear reason I hate 8 and it has to do with this bitch right here. Now far be it from me to claim that characters in FF behave in ways a logical human would behave all the time but even by the most forgiving standards the amount of bending over backwards to accommodate this one right here is insane. I mean fucking hell:
>Rinoa is told to stay in her room
>Rinoa leaves her room with no plan other than to "talk" to the Sorceress...during a political assassination with the highest stakes possible
>Rinoa gets captured
>Squall has to drop everything to rescue her
Although Quistis loses a point for abandoning her mission to go apologize to her
>Massive fucking war going on
>Rinoa goes back to get a ring
>Nearly falls to her death and has to hold on for dear life
>Squall has to drop everything to go rescue her
>Rinoa gets possessed right when Squall is given command of SeeD
>Squall has to drop everything to go rescue her
>Rinoa, in her possessed state, frees all the monsters from the moon causing them to rain down upon the Planet
>Rinoa as a result is stranded in space
>Squall has to drop everything to go rescue her
>Rinoa gets possessed by Adell
>Squall has to drop everything to rescue her
Tifa got captured too and the way she got out was contrived but at least we weren't rescuing her 40 times and we got a slap fight out of it.
>>343488115
>no religious worship in 13, only fal cie matter, but a name footnoted in a datalog is supposed to be taken as a goddess in 13-2 without looking askance.
>bhunivelze not evil. I wont even bother debating this because NEWSFLASH he is the main antagonist of the game.(despite not existing in FF13) (despite his existence is contradictory to the entire mythos established in the first two games)
Please, apologize for square's shitty writing, and profit seeking HARDER
Or, are you perhaps related to the miyazaki clan? at least that would excuse your poor acumen in plotting.
>>343488490
Rinoa a cute
Final Fantasy X had the most immersive world. I didn't really feel immersed anywhere else, well, maybe VI, but to a lesser degree.
>>343488680
X's world is immersive because we got to see how miserable everyone is and how everyone is basically either blindly clinging to Yevon or just waiting to die. It was presented in a believable light even with the stupid outfits. Blitzball is literally the only thing people can look forward to at all and even though it's a plot hole of why Sin doesn't blow Luca and Bevelle the fuck up (yes I know because Jecht had some control over himself and his liked both Blitzball and the Hymn. That doesn't explain the previous Sins before Jecht.) the game is greater than the sum of its parts.
>>343488680
To expand, if you're searching for a world to immerse, and get yourself lost in, then FFX is literally the one for you, seeing as the main character is lost in another world, and is seeing everything for the first time. Even though he was a pro athlete, that helped me relate to him, because I was experiencing Spira for the first time at the same time as Tidus.
>>343488237
If you accept premise 1 as you already did, then it doesnt matter how barthandelus kills orphan, either way Cocoon dies and the makers are summoned.
The party is not aware, nor do they care, of the detailed evacuation plans of cocoon. As far as they are concerned, even at the end of the game, pulse is a brutal death land that is equitable to doom for cocoon's population.
Suspecting Barthandelus's knowledge and motives does not equate to perfect knowledge that doing what he wants them to do will actually contradict his intended purpose. Just because Barthandelus was not the one to create their Focus does not mean that doing what he literally ordered them to do will not further his goals (literal common sense indicates that it would help him and he simply recognized their focus furthered his aims and exploited that)
If we accept your thesis the characters are literally retarded and did what Barthandelus always wanted and simply lucked into a happy ending through plot armor WHICH IS THE ENTIRE REASON FF13 HAS IMMENSE STORY PROBLEMS
I can't tell you what is the "best", which is a fairly pointless argument to make. But I can tell you what my favorite is and why.
I love VIII. Yes, the black sheep of the series, that one game that besides XIII everyone seemed to hate. Since you said that combat doesn't bother you, I can't stress enough how much of a chance you must give it.
Like all games, VIII surely is flawled. The gameplay is, alas, too easy if you understand how junctioning (a strange mix between a magic and equipment sistem) and the story uses some shounen-esque logic when it comes down to politics. Everything else is great: the story moves along with a really fast pace and there are never fillers (we could argue that sometimes it's too fast) and I absolutely loved the duality Squall/Laguna. VIII is a character study about a guy that suffered a lot during his younger years and has to re-evaluate the way he approaches to others. It's simple, but bittersweet and it's a refreshing change of pace from the rest of the series. It's still a story of a group of teenagers that must save the world, but far more incentrated on the single individuals, although most of the party gets only a bit of characterization (which is enough to have some pretty fun moments with them through the game). The game also has what is probably the best Soundtrack Uematsu ever composed on par with IX's.
>>343488515
Again, there is religious worship. Pulse and Lindzei are the two gods named, with Etro a third. Barthandelus talks about her and so does Fang. And Bhuni isn't evil. He created a new world and tasks Lightning with collecting souls to populate it. He is only the antagonist because he planned on turning Lightning into the new Goddess of death instead of reuniting her with her sister in the new world. Again, you're really reaching in your hate. Just admit that the game is okay.
>>343488490
Difference being, her need to be saved was always really well integrated into the story and never felt forced besides the time she was hanging for her dear life (that I agree, Zell should've fucking casted float on her or some shit).
If you want some really bad kidnapping, Yuna still takes the cake, especially considering the explanation is always "An Al-Bhed did it". Wakka was right, dammit.
>>343488237
>Hope pointed out that what Bartandelous said didn't make any sense since he's a Cocoon Fal'cie and therefore should NOT know their Focus.
Actually he never says anything indicating that Barthandelus can't know. Just that it's strange that a Cocoon Fal'Cie would want to destroy Cocoon.
In fact it's possible that Bart does know, if Lindzei tells him or if Eden can perceive Anima's Focus giving within Cocoon space.
In fact both Bart and Cid collaborate each others' story: Bart wants to destroy Cocoon (as Lindzei has instructed him to do.)
Beyond the obvious that PSICOM was only evacuating citizens from the monsters and not off Cocoon (yet), it is also true that even if they did and Cocoon came crashing down they would've died anyway being in close proximity. (And a third of Cocoon humans did die in the ending anyway officially.) Every human doesn't need to die, since the Farseer tribe will live on, just enough to blow open the Unseen Gate.
Killing Orphan with Ragnarok doesn't cause a special super apocalypse, it does the same thing, drops Cocoon from orbit.
>>343489001
Actually, they have a guy in the army who tells them about the evacuation. They didn't magically appear at Orphan's Cradle. They had to fight through Eden to get there. And the party had already been to Pulse. They know people can and have lived there for many years before them. When Etro revived them, Fang and Vanille already pretty much knew how they were going to save Coccoon: by using Ragnarok.
>>343471068
I'm not voting on your poll because you didn't put Final Fantasy Tactics.
>>343488680
Final Fantasy X was pretty immersive as far as flavortext and npc's go. It was imprecise about a lot of the nuances of Spira, which made it a lot easier to believe ironically. The only things that really stood out to me were the lack of character development between antagonists and rivals.
Final Fantasy XI, because you create a player character to literally immerse in the game world.
Wings of the Goddess and Chains of Promathia stories were top tier Final Fantasy wise.
Though, you'd have to dump too much time into playing/leveling/questing to get anywhere in the story, with no one to help you with missions since no one really needs the missions anymore.
>>343489253
Actually, To add to this, I believed it was Barthandelus himself who transported Anima into Coccoon and kept it dormant after his initial plan during the war of transgression failed, so he always knew that the focus was to destroy Coccoon.
>>343480537
Adults are talking, anon. Go and play your gameboy
>>343489409
>nigga kissed my girl
>aw hell no
>shits on now, Seymour
>>343473104
Tactics story was good while it was fantasy war of the roses, it shit the bed once it turned into demon's trying to end the world.
>>343489624
>Thinking FF XII's 'political intrigue' was well written, complex or insightful.
Nigga you should try reading a book.
>>343489409
Teedus and Yuna got character development but that's not fair since they're the protagonists. Wakka got some good character development. I like how even when presented with evidence that the Al Bhed was alright and Yevon was wrong he didn't just throw away his prejudices. It takes time to get that programming out and he flip flopped for a while before finally moving forward. Auron got very little character development but he doesn't really need it, he's the one who's already done it all and now just acts as a guide. Lulu, Kimhari, and Rikku got fuck all for character development and Seymour's character is as stupid as his hair.
>>343489749
>moving the goalposts
>>343473412 didn't say the intrigue was good, he said it was focused on political intrigue.
All video game stories are shit compared to books.
I think you need to move onto something more basic, child. Try learning how to read English.
>>343489001
>>343489253
>either way Cocoon dies and the makers are summoned.
No it doesn't because
A. Ragnorok is used to save Cocoon
B. Nobody is inside of Cocoon when it happens
C. Ragnorok was meant to clash with Orphan to cause the apocolypse.
You are just running around the details so you don't have to say you are wrong.
>The party is not aware, nor do they care, of the detailed evacuation plans of cocoon.
Yes they do know as Yasch said it in front of them after his final battle with the cast. Plus they're first plan was to go an try and warn people of Bartandelous's treachery
>As far as they are concerned, even at the end of the game, pulse is a brutal death land that is equitable to doom for cocoon's population.
Except that Cocoon isn't all that destroyed. Pulse is far more inhabitable and you didn't play the game, did you?
>Suspecting Barthandelus's knowledge and motives does not equate to perfect knowledge that doing what he wants them to do will actually contradict his intended purpose.
Except when it's confirmed by Cid Raines that Bartandelous is lying and therefore is perfect knowledge that doing what Bartandelous wants is NOT how to complete their Focus.
>If we accept your thesis the characters are literally retarded and did what Barthandelus always wanted and simply lucked into a happy ending through plot armor
Except that they were not because they figured out Bartandelous's scheme. They did not because they had kill Orphan WITH RANGOROK to cause the apocalypse and Wake up the Maker. And you are REALLY bad at how to tell a 'good story'. Like REALLY BAD. If you want characters to do EXACTLY what the main villian tells them to, then look up Bravely Default. That game is ripe with "Should we do it? YES, LET'S DO IT!!!!"
See? Ignoring the plot doesn't make you guys right. It just makes you guys seem like you think are right because you cut out major chunks of the story for your argument.
>>343489896
>Having standards is bad
You should try holding entertainment to higher standards, if you keep lowering the standards and excusing poor plotting, pacing, character development and world building you'll never get anything good.
>All video game stories are shit compared to books
Not true.
>All Final Fantasy stories are shit compared to well written books.
FIFY
You should try breathing before you post baby, it might help you keep a handle on that knee jerk reaction.
>>343471068
For me? VI hands down has the best story. I want to trash talk XIII, and both of it's sequels but there's not much new for me to add.
>>343490096
I'm someone else that is just barging into the conversation.
I personally believe the reason why it's so hard to get invested in XIII's story is, besides a couple of low points into the narration, is because there is absolutely no audience-proxy. Everyone in this world knows already everything, o they never really explain. They talk about common place stuff (especially about Cocoon itself, which is at the same time one of the most beautiful and useless world Square has ever created) and it all feels like a bunch of technobubble.
All of the important tidbits of the lore and of the world are told in an endless array of datalogs. They are interesting, but feel detached of the world: you are reading about all those cool places... you will never ever visit. You are stuck in the endless hallway. Forever.
>>343479492
VI felt very original to me. I'm not a delusional fanboy though so I'll listen to your criticism. How would you say Kuja is a better villain than Kefka?
>>343479995
I would say Crystal Chronicles is more about enjoying the combat and offline co-op. I played this game with my little sister when we were young and it was so much fun. The story is kind of dumb though. You can do literally nothing for 52 years of collecting Myrrh and the none of the characters age, so story wise, its a bit shallow.
>>343471068
>Which Final Fantasy has the best story?
Hard to say because even the best FF story is rather facepalm worthy.
Despite heavy critisism, I'm going to say FFVIII. If you ignore Rinoa's role in the story and focus more on Squall growing as a character. It really does feel like the story they wanted to tell with Cloud, but done better.
>I want to feel immersed in the story, meet loveable characters and find myself lost in the world.
You're looking in the wrong series. You need to play something like Suikoden or Dragon Quest instead.
>>343490554
The worst example of this would be Bismark. So you go to the lake and you read about how Bismark lives there. Fang even tells you not to go near the lake otherwise Bismark will attack. So you go to the lake and you get...mobs. And not particularly strong ones either. And a glimpse of Bismark's tail.
...that's it? What the hell? Bad enough we can't fight Titan but Bismark is off limits too?
>>343490751
>How would you say Kuja is a better villain than Kefka?
I don't know if he's a better villain but he's definitely a better character.
>>343473412
13 has the best lore or the MOST lore. I don't recall those being the same thing. In fact I tend to dislike games over bloated with lore. In many cases, less overcomplicated lore is better.
>>343489656
>demon's trying to end the world.
It was just evil jesus trying to resurrect and being cockblocked. At worst Ivalice was going to be ruled by the church of evil Jesus.
No apocalypse.
>>343491195
Nope, best lore.
>>343490986
It's so bad that the first time I played it I was convinced that Cocoon was some kind of spaceship on levels (since they keep mentioning the idea of living more or less near the "top", which seemed like the center of the planet), while in reality it's a Dyson's sphere, and there is a clearly defined surface with a star (eden, if I recall) in the middle. You have to imagine my confusion because the first time they escape with a ship in the 'sky' they are sitll technically inside of Cocoon.
This made me realize that not only the game begins in the worst place possible, but that you don't even get a very simple video that can quickly visualize that concept. I don't know, Take 7's introduction, which tells you everything you could possibly ever ask about Midgar in ten seconds of introduction. I don't even like 7 that much but fuck was something wrong with 13's direction.I love lightning returns though
>>343471068
>XIV not on the strawpoll even though XI is
Well fuck you too OP.
>>343491195
It's also the most useless lore. Square wanted to write the Silmarillion of Final Fantasy, instead what we got was a Harry Potter fanfiction.
>>343489656
The best bits of politics happened along the demon jesus stuff. Delita's rise to power using the evil church's chaos from the resurrection is by far the best bit.
>>343491441
>wanting to vote FFXIV for best story
I think this is the dumbest thing I've ever seen on /v/. Did you completely overlook the Magitek Power Rangers, MILFina being the dumbest rebel leader in history and the fact that its an MMO focused on story? Its amazing how FFXIV is even worse than Old Republic's story.
>>343471068
"Story in a game is like story in a porn movie: It's expected to be there, but it's not that important."
Honestly, just go to /lit/ for good stories. It'd be a hell of a lot easier to find some there than here.
>>343491719
Yeah I'll go to /lit/ for a good story.
>>343490096
>A. Ragnorok is used to save Cocoon
The Focus was to destroy Cocoon after which they crystalized and saved it. Although it's very strange that they managed to know how to do it. (Later it's said that neither of these are true. They just willed the crystallization.)
>B. Nobody is inside of Cocoon when it happens
Bullshit. 20 million evacuated in the span of, let's be generous, two hours? Beyond that Cocoon falling on Pulse makes it uninhabitable and kills everyone nearby.
Also since people died within Cocoon during the normal ending. This mass evacuation did not happen. People live on Coccon for a long time after.
>C. Ragnorok was meant to clash with Orphan to cause the apocolypse.
Because Orphan dying, drops Cocoon and accomplishes Anima's Focus, which is protecting the Oerba village. Ragnarok clashing with Orphan has no special meaning. It's just a method to kill Orphan.
Cid Raines says nothing about Barthandelus lying either. Rewatch those cutscenes. Your stubborn assumption that Hope, Cid or Bart deal in lying is false.
Bart lies twice in the story though. He masquerades as Serah and says one lie (although the most important goal he had was infuriating the party, so they would do what he wants. The other being "the Cavalry slaying Orphan," since that is literally impossible Eden will defend Orphan and Ciethify them. The attackers need to be l'Cie.)
There are no lies about the party's Focus. The party's Focus is to destroy Cocoon. The more important of the two. Killing Orphan, while human did not change a thing.
>>343491719
Honestly, a majority of "good" books have shitty stories.
>>343491829
Just go read a fucking book.
>>343491671
It still has a better story than half of the FF games.
Am I the only faggot that liked XII?
>>343491928
Ok.
>>343491878
Well, what DOES have a good story?
>>343491719
Both books and games can have good stories. And both follow Sturgeon's Law. It can actually be harder to find a good story through a book because of the sheer volume out there. As well as the most popular books usually being popular for everything except being a good story.
>>343491719
>reading books for the story
>>343492052
>>343492052
Everything can. Depends on what you like. Good or not is a simple state of mind.
>>343491965
That doesn't say much for FFXIV or the FF series as a whole. But I guess I can't prove it wrong. Especially after replaying games like FFIV and X recently. How can the games with the best combat also have the worst stories? it blows my mind.
>>343492220
Summarize in less than 10 bullet points. I'll be the judge of that.
>>343492052
Suikoden I-III and multiple Dragon Quest games have better stories than any FF game I've played. But that's just my opinion. And based on multiple factors including pacing and how you interact with the story.
Aside from resorting too much to death scenes with no impact and cheesy Shounen level plot devices, FF also fails at making the story tie into a game. FFIV and VII being the biggest examples of having dozens of points where you lose party members, run into bosses or have to change your entire party's setup just because of a story trigger. The game has to yield to the story, when it should be the other way around.
>>343492478
>Trapped in a madman's house of puzzles and death
>You can't trust anybody
>Chinese Room
>Multiverse theory
Not a good summary, you'd have to play it
