No more shit MP. No more Halo devs.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-06-09-id-takes-back-control-of-doom-broken-multiplayer-on-pc
>>340586274
A month after the game's release, players of Doom's online aren't happy, pointing serious criticism at the multiplayer for lacking various standards, such as provision for custom settings, choosing or voting on maps, and private matches. Their argument is that these are the kinds of features that help a healthy social and competitive community to build up around a game. Inevitably, these issues are a particular bugbear for PC players, for whom flexibility is an expectation.
Worse, on PC there's rampant cheating. Assists are easily available online ("You won't get banned using our Doom cheats; we haven't had one ban on any game in over a year; our coders are that good!" boasts the website for one of them), and I've found myself at their mercy over and over. Without the ability to browse private matches, or for players to run them on private servers, you have no chance of avoiding cheating players, other than to leave games and return to matchmaking. PC players argue that without private servers and admins with ban tools, Doom also doesn't profit from the community helping to police the game.
And here's the rub: some of these features were present in the PC version of Doom's alpha test if it was launched with special commands. It was possible to set up private matches with custom game options including modes, maps, number of rounds, items, weapon damage levels and many other settings. You could even include SnapMaps. It had a browser for private matches. And it also featured bots, a staple of classic deathmatch games, particularly id's, because they're useful for practising against, or filling a map when playing with just a few friends.
>>340586380
Ultimately, Doom's players seem to worry most that the lack of all these features points to an uncertain future for Doom, and that the fact its multiplayer was farmed out to a separate studio, Certain Affinity, suggests its multiplayer is a bolt-on afterthought that won't continue to be developed. Looking at it philosophically, Doom's multiplayer should be right up there with Counter-Strike and Call of Duty as one of the principal competitive FPSes, right?
So it's time to put it to id. I asked Marty Stratton, Doom's executive producer and game director about what the future holds, and he was quick to put concerns at rest. "There's certainly no lack of commitment to Doom as a multiplayer game on our side," he says. "We are already working on private matches with custom game settings and expect to include that in a free update this summer."
Stratton acknowledges the missing features from the alpha, though he notes the fact that players weren't meant to access them. "There were a few developer tools discovered in the alpha that we knew we would need to improve before releasing to consumers and as mentioned, we are working on most of those updates now."
Later he expects bots to be added to the game. "Our bot system was actually written by one of our long-time senior programmers, John Dean, known online as 'Maleficus', who also wrote the Return to Castle Wolfenstein Fritz bot and the bots in Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, so he does great work with bots. But John also just happens to be our internal lead programmer on SnapMap, so he's very busy."
>>340586479
The goal is to make bots available across both standard multiplayer and SnapMap, but it's likely that they'll be rolled out in phases, based on supporting where players want them most first, then improving them so they're flexible enough to work elsewhere. SnapMap will also be getting new features to develop it as a multiplayer environment.
But with Doom being run on dedicated servers, privately hosted servers seem unlikely. "Our goal for players at launch was to give them a variety of playlists to choose from so that they could have flexibility in choosing the type of play that they prefer while still keeping the player population coalesced," Stratton says. "With that, the matchmaking system can quickly get them into a lobby with other players and then into a dedicated server that provides the best and most fair experience for all."
But browsing private matches held on Doom's dedicated servers seems more hopeful. At first, private matches will be supported by invites. "We feel like this will meet the greatest immediate needs of most players, like those wanting to use private matches to avoid cheaters, play exclusively with friends or setup competitive options. However, we are also still considering the features and benefits of a more traditional match browser."
These certainly address the principal concerns of Doom's players, though the cheating situation is less clear. Stratton says that id is actively punishing and banning known cheaters, but won't go into detail for fear it might undermine his team's efforts. "We are continuing to look at ways to improve our capabilities. We understand the frustration."
>>340586591
And in terms of content, free and paid-for DLC for multiplayer is on the way. Expect to see some more on that at Bethesda's E3 Showcase on Sunday. What's interesting, however, is that Certain Affinity is no longer working on it. "We worked with Certain Affinity through the launch of the game and really appreciate their contributions and effort on the game," says Stratton. He explains that these updates are the work of id's teams now freed up from shipping the initial release and with also some support from other ZeniMax internal studios.
The bottom line is that id seems to have comprehensive plans for developing Doom as a multiplayer game. "We know that talk will only go so far with players and hope that our actions this year continue to give players across every component of the game - multiplayer, singleplayer and SnapMap - more and more reasons to continue playing and enjoying the game in whatever way they choose," Stratton says. Timing will be critical, however. Can id entice Doom's frustrated players back in, before they've turned their back on hell for good?
Good now full mod support when
>>340586768
fucking this. make it happen, id.
>>340586768
If they announce it at E3, I'll be satisfied.
>>340586274
blah blah blah
What do you think they're going to do completely rework it? They're not and they wont. You'll get soft updates and by then nobody will give a fuck.
>>340586903
>What do you think they're going to do completely rework it?
Did you even read the article?
>>340586591
>But with Doom being run on dedicated servers, privately hosted servers seem unlikely.
God damn it
>>340586978
Nope.
I'm over it, like you'll be in a month.
>>340587053
These 2 statements seem to conflict
>"We are already working on private matches with custom game settings and expect to include that in a free update this summer."
>>340587053
They aren't ruling it out yet though, and the fact that they even mentioned the PC multiplayer base is a damn good sign, as usually PC users are always the forgotten ones in multiplatform games.
>>340587203
Private matches =/= private servers.
>>340587203
that most likely means private matches on id's servers. not community-hosted servers
>>340587345
>>340587370
Yup just read this
>But browsing private matches held on Doom's dedicated servers seems more hopeful. At first, private matches will be supported by invites. "We feel like this will meet the greatest immediate needs of most players, like those wanting to use private matches to avoid cheaters, play exclusively with friends or setup competitive options. However, we are also still considering the features and benefits of a more traditional match browser."
This won't change that the game is utter shit compared to the old ones, a fucking DOS map editor is even better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss8SyOhqk1I
The game is already out and people are done playing it. Those who are still playing it are angry or bored of the multiplayer. Even if they do fix it, it won't help bolster the amount of people buying the game or to continue playing the game after a few weeks of novelty gameplay with the new MP.
Whomever was in charge fucked up royally. They are too late and a dollar short to fix what happened. The damage is already done
>>340587493
>DUDE 100,000 REVENANTS LMAO
Do you realize how that'd be fucking impossible to do on a modern engine with computer rendering as it is currently? Don't be a fucking idiot.
>>340587493
>This won't change that the game is utter shit compared to the old ones
Mate, D44M is infinitely better than Doom 2, Final Doom and Plutonia.
>>340587493
>This won't change that the game is utter shit compared to the old ones
no
>a fucking DOS map editor is even better:
Doom/2 have the benefit of having over 20 years of modding. Do you expect to have 100,000 revenants with those graphics and a.i.? You're a fucking retard.
>>340587370
They should just do what they always did back in the day.
>Release an unofficial Linux port. It's already OpenGL/Vulkan so it wouldn't be terribly difficult.
>Get Linux nerds to set up private servers
>Community does all your work for you
>>340587493
Let's be fair here.
How many monsters could a original Doom map reasonably hold on 1993 hardware without the framerate turning into shit? Not to mention the modern Doom monsters can do more things than "walk forward and fire".
>>340587716
ewww, the shit tasting numale betas have arrived.
>>340587053
>>340586768
>>340586810
>>340586853
I thought Denuvo made it impossible to do so
>>340587929
Nice ad hominem faggot
>>340586274
No more shit MP? All they said they're doing is adding custom lobbies and private matches. It's not going to change the game that much.
And I wouldn't call Certain Affinity Halo devs.. they are more a company that MP modes seem to be outsourced to
>>340588025
Don't say these things.
>>340587929
>shitty nonsensical level design is good
I bet you're one of those faggots who think that putting an Archvile in the first level of Plutonia was "kool and hardcore xD"
Just remove the two weapon limit and have weapons around the maps you fucks
>>340588169
>All they said they're doing is adding custom lobbies and private matches. It's not going to change the game that much.
With custom settings as well, will probably turn off the 2 weapon limit. The gameplay itself is fine.
The multiplayer is actually okay. Could definitely be better though.
>>340587762
There's no Denuvo for Linux. I can't help but think it's the reason why the Linux and Mac versions of Arkham Knight were cancelled. Denuvo also prevents the game from being run in Wine, while the multiplayer beta worked flawlessly.
>>340587610
>>340587747
>>le unoptimized game engine meme
the game should be able to handle far more than it allows for, period.
there's no fucking excuse. it's a shit game engine.
So literally nothing. Great article.
>>340588550
>So literally nothing.
>"There's certainly no lack of commitment to Doom as a multiplayer game on our side," he says. "We are already working on private matches with custom game settings and expect to include that in a free update this summer."
>What's interesting, however, is that Certain Affinity is no longer working on it.
>However, we are also still considering the features and benefits of a more traditional match browser."
>We know that talk will only go so far with players and hope that our actions this year continue to give players across every component of the game - multiplayer, singleplayer and SnapMap - more and more reasons to continue playing and enjoying the game in whatever way they choose,
>>340588725
So nothing.
>>340588523
You're being unrealistic. honestly. The demons are actually pretty aggressive and seek the player out. You wouldn't be able to handle more than 12 at a time anyway, guaran-fucking-teed.
I'm not expecting id software to allow the players to add both variants of the Cyberdemon and the Spidermastermind in SnapMap
There's just too much logic and mechanics involved in both demons that I don't think consoles will handle snapmaps with both bosses or even a single boss in one Smap
In short, if people want them in SnapMap they gotta deal with the fact that there's going to be a fracture between consoles and PCs
>>340586768
I need this. It's a solid engine. The core gameplay is very friendly toward adding things like new weapons or power-ups. There is serious potential that is being squandered by denuvo and the lack of dedicated servers.
>>340588990
And speaking of fractures, Marty Stratton said something about free and paid DLC for multiplayer.
This is definitely going to segment Multiplayer even more. And yes, they gotta do something big for the next Bethesda showcase this week because, whether people like it or not, Overwatch laid a good blow to DOOM's multiplayer, and if Bethesda doesn't get smart, Call of Duty will kill MP entirely come November
>>340588348
>With custom settings as well, will probably turn off the 2 weapon limit. The gameplay itself is fine.
And the 2 weapon limit isn't? The game is fine but it's never going to be as good as UT
Id is just going to use Doom multiplayer as an experiment to figure out what they should put inQuake 5.
>>340588990
>if people want them in SnapMap they gotta deal with the fact that there's going to be a fracture between consoles and PCs
Which should have been the case in the first place. Snapmap is an awesome concept for console players though and a good way to prolong those versions of the game. PC should have full mod support though or a more complex version of snapmap that allows custom assets to be imported.
When all is said and done i think that is what happens. Snapmap is going to get opened up more and more.
>>340587053
I don't get it. Why do publishers like paying for servers nobody really wants to play on?
>>340589235
I think the paid DLC is for hack modules and skins and such. Paid maps would certainly split the player base, and that would be retarded at this point.
BY THE WAY, according to the dataminers, you were supposed to get the Praetor Suit (the actual Doomguy) for multiplayer once you completed the game on Nightmare.
>>340587071
>makes statements without reading the article
>acknowledges that article wasn't read
>literally a complete dumbass
Why are you on the internet kid
>>340589523
Anything on the classic suit
>>340588803
>So nothing.
Haha, well meme'd! xD
I wonder how the firing went and how many people threw a fit when there special needs child was shot and started over because it was just unusable
>>340589272
as long as they want quake to be popular on console. dont expect something as great as quake 3.
hell, dont expect arena fps in general to be popular again either with all that babbie fps and tacticool shit on the market today.
>>340587610
Which is a damn shame. I used to have a lot of fun coming up with max unit scenarios in age of empires. My computer would run it better and better as units died. Good times.
>>340589796
I'm fine with a multiplat Quake 5 as long as there's a good multiplayer spin-off like CPMA or Quake Live. I just want a Quake that follows the first game, no more Strogg shit.
>>340588025
Yeah I doubt doom 4 get real modding.
>>340586274
you think they can just wave their magic wand and suddley everything is fixed?
The design is fundamentally fucked, the mulitplayer component is a lost cause
snapmap on the other hand has a lot of potential if only they could raise the monster/player limits and let you build rooms properly rather than just prefab chunks
niggas whinging about it not being arenafps enough should either go play reflex or slink back to flavour of the month overmeme shit
>>340587493
doom is much simpler especially for mapping since it is essentially 2d
>>340587610
serious sam can manage hundreds of active enemies while doom is limited to a whole 12
>>340587813
the original can only draw 128 sprites at a time most sourceports remove these limits
>Fucking Call of Duty has custom servers and mod tools in 2016 while Doom doesn't
Sasuga gaming.
mfw doom threads are already dead and in a few weeks or months /v/ will collectively turn on it
>>340591640
as soon as it stops being popular it will become popular here
>>340591125
>serious sam can manage hundreds of active enemies while doom is limited to a whole 12
And SS enemies have the most barebones basic AI ever. DOOM enemy ai is actually really fucking good and will actively seek and destroy you.
>>340591640
/v/ hated Doom long before it came out, and continue to shit on it to this day.
>>340591884
But the miltiplayer is legitimatly shit
>>340586274
they take over MP on PC to fix netcode and hackers. nothing else
>>340591948
I agree, I don't like the mulitplayer either. /v/ hated EVERYTHING about the game though, even the kick ass campaign, for reasons beyond me though.
>>340592065
Most of /v/ was too younge to have played the original or quake 1 on release
>Nightmare difficulty
Nice game lads
I can be a retard and hit myself with a rocket and still live
Do you think Zenimax will let them make SP DLC too?
>>340592065
/v/ shits on EVERY big game, i still feel like most people who actually played it liked it
>>340592065
Maybe this will help explain the grievances people have with the campaign
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3OY0hDt5Sw
>>340592172
>I can be a retard and hit myself with a rocket and still live
And this is a problem?
>>340591125
Difference is that the enemies in Doom actually do shit like jumping around on platforms, leading shots and have much more threat per monster. SS monster AI is limited mostly to finding the shortest path to the character and shooting every so often. Barebone as fuck.
>>340592318
I should die instantly on nightmare difficulty
>>340591830
I bet Doom will be the next Half-Life 2, something everyone on the internet likes except /v/.
>>340591640
nah unlike TNO which was a by the numbers modern shooter Doom isn't completely terrible but you will see more nitpicking and such
>>340591846
>ai is actually really fucking good
nah it really isn't anything special they just place them in ways to make it seem like they are effective
I think the imps are the only ones that really go out of their way to get to pre determined waypoints
the pathfinding is also fucking horrendous especially in the "classic" maps
>>340592369
they can chase you around the map but there is nothing clever about that
>>340592065
It's because the marketing was bad. A lot of people changed their opinion once they played it. However /v/ is largely underage and poor, so the people who couldn't afford it/pirate it because of Denuvo just keep on shitposting despite it being blatantly obvious when someone hasn't played it yet. I've never seen such a fundamental disconnect between marketing and actual gameplay.
>>340592065
i enjoy the campaign but for different reasons than i enjoy the classic titles. exploration is not near as nonlinear and the levels are just as linear. secrets are restricted to "oh theres this slightly out of the way path that leads to a model toy" like its bioshock. there aren't secrets that obscure half the level like in the original games, sure they aren't all easy to find in doom 4 but they aren't near as interesting
multiplayer isn't even that bad but it could definitely do better than be a faster halo. i don't understand why they didn't just bind all the weapons to the dpad for consoles, thats 8 fucking weapons, not including bfg and chainsaw which are bound to left bumper and x respectively. didn't have to be a fucking weaponwheel, loadouts do not work in a game where different weapons do entirely different things, ESPECIALLY when you can't pick up new weapons.
my main issue is the level editor. i don't want to use templates i want to create my own wicked shit. the level design is completely different in doom 4 than to doom 1 or 2 for example and it would be cool to be able to create something unique. nevermind "engine limits" which will be redundant in a few years when pcs get even fucking better, or the fact many pcs can already optimally run ten times as intense levels
>>340592983
>TNO which was a by the numbers modern shooter
>>340586274
Too little too late. Unless they have a billion free weekends and sales to prove it's not shit anymore like RO2 did the multiplayer will still stay a wasteland due to the horrible first impression it left. Fuck I honestly forgot DOOM had a multiplayer mode until I saw this thread.
>>340589332
Because the days of server browsers are dead.
What modern games even have them anymore? TF2 did, CSGO might but who the fuck plays anything other than competitive. I suppose BF4 does via battlelog.
>>340587716
>>340593659
Yeah, but really why are they dead? Traditional master servers that just host a list of other servers cost peanuts to run; the players are more than happy to pay for their own game servers.
How is this game so far? Thinking of picking it up on PC. Worth the price?
>>340587493
Fucking GOAT music in that video
>>340592983
Most of the times that pinky crashed in your webm was due to momentum preventing it from stopping right away not bad AI. The only real bad moment is when it kept crashing into that brown building.
>>340587716
Agree that it's better than Final Doom (literally every other doom game is, including 3) but it's not as good as 2. 2 is the pinnacle of the series, with 64 being not far behind it. People like to talk up the original but it sees a huge drop in quality after Knee Deep in the Dead. Had the game stayed as good as the first episode the entire time it would definitely be the best in the series. But it doesn't so it isn't.
>>340591125
>while doom is limited to a whole 12
Holy shit really? Fucking lol even Halo can do more than that. And with bigger levels that aren't corridors.
We want single player dlc. How about a prequel where you kill the Titan?
>>340587493
>a modern game with heavily rendered 3d enemies can't render more than 64 demons on Xbox One / PS4
Worst game ever made, baka baka
I am gonna have to say that despite good intentions I expect just a couple of patches before Jewnimax forces Id to move onto Wolf 2 or Quake.
Zenimax does not profit from this at all, unless this paves the way for a microtransaction environment in which having a healthy MP game is mandatory, but their model is on consoles.
Fixing the PC version is pointless because PC queers are more often than not commited to one game, and are pretty much shitheads in the sense that fixing a game is never enough for them, once it releases that way, for them it stays that way forever. It is not about standards, my Pc bretheren have become full time, around the clock piss baby faggots, worse than furries, bronies, redditors, memsters, shills, /pol/, tumblr, /co/, weebs, and BRs combined. PC gaming is at this point a mistake. They should had stay quiet and moved onto Wolf, PC queers have a terrible memory and would buy the next game regardless. They fall for the same shit over and over, despite all the shit Skyrim gets it was one of the most played PC games.
>>340586274
Wait, isn't this counter the the beth shills narrative that DOOM is the greatest game ever go buy it now! bullshit?
Also laughing because you'll NEVER get mods with denuvo, and you'll NEVER get good multiplayer when they're literally selling OP guns and classes in the season pass.
Stupid beth shills
>>340592413
Not really unless your armor and health were really low, but I take a retard like yourself forgot how Doom worked, but that was a nice try, you really convinced me that you are a retard.
Seriously, stop trying to fit in, moron. You are just an embarrasment.
I feel sorry for your parents, they got a shitstain son, who goes around the internet making an ass of himself.
>>340591884
>I hated Doom long before it came out, and continue to shit on it to this day.
fify friend
>>340594183
The other episodes are at least as good as Doom 2. Not as much enemy variety though
>>340593893
What is it anyway?
>>340595495
Real men will be playing unreal tournament 4 anyways.
>>340586274
Ha no way
>>340595495
>that sonygger sperg out
calm down anon
Dear mom:
i like the music
i like the campaign
snap map is fun
multiplayer is okay, just wish it had in match music and better hit detection
doom is fun
i like doom
P.S:i really want the doom guy armour for multiplayer
>>340595704
Projecting much?
>>340592307
fuck i was baited to watch your shitty video
>>340586274
That's disappointing. They're not doing much at all. If their doing that little might as well not even do anything it won't make a difference. Ohhh they are actively banning cheaters they say? Man they are so good at it, so dedicated. So good I never see cheaters /sarcasim
>>340596681
This picture made me think of this game.
>>340596681
>A doom RTS where you have to manage space marines against onslaughts of demons
I never knew i wanted this until now
>>340597610
hmmm...that gives me a snap map idea
>>340596681
>>340597610
Holy shit. Why is there not a mod for this?
>>340597758
Eh, that guy who tried to make a MOBA said the system basically shit it's pants so I can't imagine an full RTS working any better. But hey give it a shot.
>>340597610
I'm pretty sure there's already a WAD similar to this. I don't remember the name and I don't think it had an isometric view though.
>>340597610
Xcom meets Doom, this has potential.
>>340586274
The balance is fucked, the movement speed is too low and there's no momentum. DOOM MP is fundamentally shit and no extra features are going to change that. SP was good.
>>340597610
>>340597758
>>340597854
>>340597959
>>340598080
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khLAd5xnr08
>>340586274
will they remove the weapon limit?
>>340598357
This looks awesome.
>>340595263
12. it cant render more than 12. any more and they aren't spawned into the world
for a doom game that is pretty significant. major step up from the non-enforced enemy cap of 3 in doom 3 though
>>340601431
Isn't that snap map only? Pretty sure the engine could handle more than twelve enemies but they chose not to do so in order to keep performance high on consoles.
>>340593835
they just don't care
>>340601821
it seems to be the limitation in the campaign too
>>340597854
I wonder if someone's made a MOBA in the original Doom yet.
>>340598357
This actually has potential if it had more funding behind it. Then again id wouldn't know how to make an RTS.
>>340586274
that what happens if you don't consult Anita while making your game.
Waow, bots and custom games?
Surely, this will save the shit multiplayer
I don't give two shits about the multiplayer. Are they updating the snapmap? Are we getting an expansion to that shitty ending?
Or am I going to have to wait until Bethesda's E3 on the 12th?
>>340603873
Bots are the saving grace of shooters. They add a shitload of replay value to SP. Here's hoping they add offline multiplayer as well.
>>340602967
Oh hey it's a mirror's edge memer. You know you were proven wrong in 2014, right?
