I've been a game dev almost a decade. Most of that’s in AAA, but recently I've been indie. I don’t know Zoe personally, but I’ve have had professional contact with some minor players in this drama.
Everyone should be aware that game journalists have always promoted their friends. It just wasn’t (historically) as bad in AAA, because there’s a wall of separation between dev and marketing. The PR guy making friends with press doesn’t work on the game, so he has no personal stake. And journalists rarely have direct access to the developers (although twitter is changing this). Obviously, corruption/nepotism exists in AAA, but for the most part it’s a mutually beneficial professional relationship between two businesses facilitated by friendship.
But an indie developer is both the person making the game and doing the marketing. So if he or she is friends with a journalist, it completely ceases to become journalism at that point, and instead becomes a clique friendship thing. Journalists become emotionally invested in the success of their friends’ projects. Plus, the “monetizing celebrity” aspect is a huge factor. Ad revenue, donations, etc.
With this current Zoe Quinn ordeal it doesn’t matter there is a romantic element.
Fact is I’ve known terrible developers who put up their vaporware on Kickstarter and get funded for obscene amounts because they’re best buds with a journalist with 100k+ followers. And that journalist gives them serious promotion which gets them funded. And indeed these projects fail, and it happens all the time.
Meanwhile, other projects put up by talented people don’t get funded, because they aren’t friends with journalists and aren’t celebrities themselves. Journalists are the gatekeepers of what games you know exist, and they have a personal interest that you know certain games exist over others.
And to me, that’s far more offensive than anything Quinn’s accused of.
(continued)
On a personal note, I fell in love with games as teenager in the mid-90s. I was awkward, anti-social, had a lot of emotional issues, etc. Video games were my safe place for me from high school cliques, bullying, and dealing with issues at school and at home.
Bullies are often immune from blowback – that’s why they’re bullies, right? They’re the football star, or the daughter or son of someone important in the community, etc. They’re manipulative liars. They can do whatever they want, and you cannot fight back because the administration sides with them and manufactures the necessary facts to do so.
I ultimately got into game development because I wanted to bring other people that same joy I experienced, and the same safe place I was fortunate to have.
The absolute worst part of this whole thing is that now games are “cool,” suddenly the cool kids are back in charge. And they’re bringing the same circle-jerk groupthink clique mentality to what is rapidly becoming an unsafe place for the awkward misfit teenagers like I was. You have to have the *right* opinion, or be ostracized. You have to be cool and trendy and tweet witty things to your thousands of followers, or nobody gives a shit about you and your project. And if you are twitter-popular, everybody praises your video game “insights” regardless of whether you’ve actually made a game.
I’m never going to be a popular person. I’m happy just having worked out (most of) my issues, and being able to live like a person. But, fact is I have a project and I can’t express my opinion publicly because I will inevitably be harassed by the very people claiming to be the champions of social justice, and they’re immune from any accountability for their words or actions.
Also, journalists HATE getting called on their bullshit, and use the power of their celebrity to punish individuals who do so. Welcome to high school, anons.
I suppose we're all anonymous on this one.
>>259724379
>Also, journalists HATE getting called on their bullshit, and use the power of their celebrity to punish individuals who do so
Great, I guess /v's work is paying off then.
Now get out and make more games, faggot.
It's interesting that the Journalists have such an investment in so many things that don't pay out.
>>259725696
What do you mean? Anything that increases their followers is a win. Celebrity is monetized. This is what is meant by clique friendship circle-jerk.
If a journalist backs a vaporware kickstarter (for example), it will be at least a year before this is known. That's long enough to forget who promoted what.
>>259726137
Where do the Journalists get their money from?
It has to be sourced from somewhere.
>>259726267
1. Make Retarded Indie Dev a well-known person
2. They get googled
3. Your site's reviews of their games come up in addition to their twitter account
4. In his twitter account they share link to your reviews
5. Get traffic and get ad-revenue (and before you start with the ad-block defense, most people don't use ad-blocks outside tech-related sites)
6. Repeat
>>259724319
>Meanwhile, other projects put up by talented people don’t get funded, because they aren’t friends with journalists and aren’t celebrities themselves. Journalists are the gatekeepers of what games you know exist, and they have a personal interest that you know certain games exist over others.
As someone trying to make a game and who likely need a kickstarter to afford legitimate copies of the software I use, this shit terrifies me and will probably be the reason I throw away everything and quit.
>tl;dr: a pathetic attempt to imply that the big-stakes corruption that has plagued the industry since its inception is less important than ANYTHING IN THE WOOOOOOORLD
>>259726267
I don't understand what you mean here.
So take a journalist that writes for gaming sites, but also puts out semi-regular youtube videos as an example. Youtube gets him ad revenue, and that number ultimately is a function of his followers across all the social media he's on. That's celebrity. So the name of the game is self-promotion.
Now let's say he's best buds with an indie developer who has no track record, but knows social media and has amassed some followers. And they're both part of the same twitter community-web-ring (lets call it).
Journalist promotes indie developer's project (either on his own channels, or whomever he writes for), because they're friends... BUT also because they each benefit from the cross-promotion.
It's high-school. Popular kids being friends with other popular kids to further their own popularity.
Except in this case, popularity = $$$
>>259724319
>>259724379
Gamedev here. First project was kickstarted and greenlit recently.
Can confirm this is how it is. I've met many of the players involved in this drama, from the main cast to the supports, and man, its just... THEIR scene.
They make the rules. They decide who comes in. They push people out.
Here's the interesting thing that always stuck with me: they KNOW some of the stuff they do is hypocritical. They know they're bullying people when they dox them or start a twitter war. Phil Fish is aware of how everything he says sounds. They just... don't give a fuck. Its either an in-joke, or they chalk it up to being for a greater purpose, or they say that the person they're hurting would have hurt others. Its not malicious-- its groupthink.
Please understand that its dangerous for devs to criticize these people. They have connections in the gaming press, and even with kickstarter. They can burn you with a tweet and your career is over-- I've seen it happen.
Stay strong, OP, and hope you have no bugs in your next build.
Sent a setter to Maker, the ones who made Polaris.
How'd i do?
>>259728331
I want to make similar connections. I want to get entrenched in game development, meet these people at PAX, talk to them about their games and their views, all while recording literally all of it like the Tortilla/Jaffe thing and then getting people to realize how fucking trash they all are.
I wish I'd gotten into this shit when I was younger. I'm too old to do anything now.
Damnit, I'm sick of this shit.
If its that fucking bad with corruption, why don't you speak out?
If you guys are really game devs and have seen this shit, why don't you have some fucking integrity and say something?
Holy fuck.
>>259729404
>If you guys are really game devs
They're not. That's why.
>>259729496
Anon I'm not sure what you think but being a game dev is not something rare these days
>>259729404
Blacklisting is a real thing.
>>259729404
Because you'll get shamed and destroyed if you publically speak out about it. Same for game journalists that might want to talk about it.
>>259729656
Neither is lying about being in an industry to stir drama up on /v/.
>>259729728
>>259729784
/v/ threw thousands of dollars at an ideas guy because we were mad at feminism. You have no excuse.
>>259729784
It's a shame, it's not just limited to games and games journalism, too. I had a friend working as an administrator for a school district in my town and someone applying for an Accountant position was gunning for the post, but was denied because an office assistant with no education or knowledge of accounting was chosen because she has a friend with the lead administrators. Crap like that is absolute bullshit, of course my example is minor but I am bad at recounting stories of bureaucratic bullshit.
>>259729784
>>259729728
No, fuck that.
Doing nothing is the same thing a supporting shit like this.
Don't some of these people have a fucking conscience?
Fuck anyone who sees this shit and does nothing.
>>259729404
>If its that fucking bad with corruption, why don't you speak out?
OP here.
Because, it would be a career-ender.
Most actual developers aren't celebs, and have no twitter followers to rally. We just make games, and don't care about the fame. So if any of us get the gaming press against us, it's over. As they say "you'll never work in this town again."
It's an asymmetric war. Our only power is as anon.
>>259730075
A lot of them don't do it because it can ruin their careers. Whistleblowing is a nasty word that companies don't want to hear or hire. If you work in an office and sue your company, other prospective companies will see that on your record and won't hire you because they fear of the MERE POSSIBILITY of getting sued themselves.
Long story short: You're a white knight bitch who supports the death of the gaming industry and thinks it's okay for this dumb bitch to rip people off and use her "MUH OPPRESSION" to shut down beneficial things.
Go fuck yourself with a wood shovel
>>259730075
Easy for you to say when you have no personal stake in the matter. Well, there's some posts like >>259729308 but not many.
>>259730197
>>259730223
>>259730319
Lets say there is an actual dev in this thread right now.
THIS IS THE PERFECT TIME TO SPEAK OUT HOLY SHIT.
ONE PERSON STARTS AND MORE WILL COME FORWARD DAMNIT.
>>259730197
>We just make games, and don't care about the fame
Then what's the problem? Everything is working fine. Stop wasting your time on /v/, go make your game and don't come back without a link to where we can download the demo.
>>259730058
>/v/ threw thousands of dollars at an ideas guy because we were mad at feminism. You have no excuse.
A collective thousands of dollars is vastly less than an entire future income... as a professional game developer, if all your potential employers know about you is that celebrity game journalist X tweeted that you're a rapist... welcome to permanent unemployment.
>>259730520
I totally agree, however too many people are trying to look out for themselves, too damn afraid to speak up.
>>259724379
>the very people claiming to be SJW are in fact bullies
This is what's bothering me the most lately.
Those fags can't see they themselves are the bullies. The whole fucking world thinks they are the epitome of social justice, when they're in fact narrow minded bandwagoning faggots that just parrot what's "cool" at the time.
Sucks that you're in this position OP.
>>259724319
I have a pretty good idea of who you are, but I won't tell.
>>259730293
Try actually reading the OP you stupid fucking nigger.
>>259730520
>Lets say there is an actual dev in this thread right now.
I think there's two.
>>259728331
Do you have any stories about Zoe or Phil or any of them? Either ruining someone or just general assholery?
>>259729934
True that.
It's always dubious whether someone is speaking truth or not on /v/.
>>259730551
>potential employers
>indie
Pick one. If you picked the first one, relax, the AAAs don't give a shit about indie squabbles. If you picked the second, relax. /v/ is here for you. /v/ cares.
>>259730539
>Then what's the problem? Everything is working fine. Stop wasting your time on /v/, go make your game and don't come back without a link to where we can download the demo.
This is my downtime I fixed "that bug" today :)
>>259730618
I'd like to think that if I was in their position or any where I see corruption, I would come forward.
I don't understand, if I saw some fucked up shit going on, I would try to get it out there. Even if the truth kills me.
I honestly couldn't live with myself watching corruption.
Why do people have to be such cowards?
>>259730643
>I have a pretty good idea of who you are, but I won't tell.
If you know me in real life, you probably can guess who this is. But the people who actually know me aren't going to go crying to twitter.
>>259729404
Gamedev from >>259728331
I used to be pretty damn opinionated when I was on my own.
Now I have a team. Everyone on the team is scared that we're going to get bashed by our fairweather friends. Its a call every hour-- "Are we safe? Does anyone think we don't support them? Did you talk to anyone?"
Our livelihoods are dependent on keeping our heads down and staying silent. We have money NOW for food and rent, and if we speak out, we might not have any.
Someone posted that we should just trust /v/ for support. I wish I could, but the risk for the potential reward is too great. I couldn't bear telling my team that we're broke because I said I was sick of the gaming clique at the top being judges, juries and executioners of indie.
Maybe a one man team or duo could do it. I wish them the best of luck: as soon as its proven to be safe to speak out, I, my team, and pretty much every small dev I know will be happy to help overthrow those pink haired hipsters.
>>259731179
>I wish them the best of luck: as soon as its proven to be safe to speak out, I, my team, and pretty much every small dev I know will be happy to help overthrow those pink haired hipsters.
Yes. This. Exactly the same boat.
>>259724319
To the game developers in this thread, what you need to do is work behind the scenes with the group that supports you. Reach out to people who know it's bullshit, have them reach out to more. Amass an amount of developers, journalists and people in which the group is too large that their house of cards just tumbles down.
If you find enough people and all come forward at the same time, there's no possible way it could backfire on you because you would have so much support from other developers, journalists and consumers. Then you can work without fear again.
>TL;DR MASS A HUGE FUCKING GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS THAT ARE IN THE INDUSTRY.
>>259731179
If you are a dev, fuck you. Really, fuck you.
Fuck you for supporting games going to shit.
Fuck you for supporting shit game journalism.
Just fuck you.
>>259731179
If everyone is already with you, then why not start it? They can't destroy your reputation if everyone discredits them.
>>259731179
I understand. It's an indictment of the shitty system we live in I guess but whatever. We really need lots of devs to come forward and blow this shit open; one or two or five come forward with stories, one takes that risk and I think that opens the floodgates.
So many people then following up on what these people are doing destroys their cartel. But I also completely understand why you or the other Game Dev Anon wouldn't want to. It's just frustrating.
Think about this: all those developers busy being twitter celebrities, posting screenshots from whatever convention, when do you suppose they're actually working on a game?
Game development is hard. I mean that. It's like 12-hours-a-day hard. 100% of your mental energy is going to your game.
Most of the celebrity designers you hear about aren't the ones doing the work. Which is why most real developers aren't famous, there's no time.
>>259730817
If you watch their or their friends' twitter, you'll see them ruin someone. They don't keep it a secret: they retweet someone who disagrees with them, they post their kickstarter, they ask their company's twitter why they hired this person. Mike Bithell does this a lot. Rami Ismail loves arguing on twitter: its his main mode of communication with everyone, and he tells people to tweet him instead of giving them a phone number or anything.
The biggest thing that surprised me about Phil was how quiet he always was. Rarely would add to the conversation, would type stuff on his phone, show it to someone around him, they'd laugh, conversation would continue. It'd be a tweet meant to rile people up.
Then I hear from other people that he's a nutcase when he's working. I guess he just doesn't deal with stress well.
Davey Wreden is a cool dude. Primo individual.
So basically we need to start with a site for video game news that isn't part of the incestuous circlejerk that the rest of it seems to be.
>>259731631
Sharks care not for the collective complaints of minnows.
>>259732071
Already tried, its pretty shit.
>>259731456
A follow up statement for this as well, if you're willing to come forth when there's enough people, talk to a Youtube personality like MundateMatt or Jontron or have someone who is already against this whole nepotism/corruption shit and have them keep a list of people that would step forward at the right time.
If you gather in force, they cannot break you. I swear to god, I'm living poor now and if I were in the industry I would undoubtedly risk living poorly again for the future developers and designers that hope to get into the field.
>>259731631
The problem is that the journos can make it look like everyone that speaks up is against a "good" cause, and bring the entire gaming community down on these developers like the fist of an angry god. I'm an animator that's working on my own projects right now, and it's something my team has heavily considered when working on our shit. Only thing is that we already have a bad rep for supporting the "darker" side of the internet, so we stand to lose a lot less than some of our more socially accepted peers.
>>259732071
Easier said than done.
>>259732195
Total Biscuit might even be down for something like that. If he does a YT on that you know it's gonna fucking explode.
>>259724379
As game developer myself I second every your word, and whish to addthat I was always forsed to cater to "cool kids" in terms of scenario.
>>259732365
TB would do full coverage of it.
Hes pretty burned by indie devs right now.
>>259732024
Same dude.
Only met AuntiPixelauntie once. She was the life of the group. Very funny person. This was when she made Lesbian Spider Queens of Mars, and I was just a starry-eyed college student, and she was an awesome person to be around-- full of positive energy, and you laughed whenever she did.
Haven't spoken to her since.
>>259732365
Exactly! They just need to find a person who will keep everyone connected behind the scenes. I would say he's pretty trustworthy since they already dragged his name through the mud. I'd have a little anger towards them if I were him.
We just need a few brave developers to kick it off and more will come.
>tfw it's the exact same thing in the television animation scene
>if you're not buddy buddy with the calarts clique you're pretty much doomed to obscurity
at least there's the option of joining different cliques of varying scummyness, but I feel you. Can't say what you really want to say cause the celebrity chick that makes shitty blog comics could call you a sexist and get you blasted off the face of the planet.
>>259732184
Sharks don't eat minnows, either. Your metaphor needs work.
Is it possible to make it as an indie dev while being apolitical, or do you need to suck that dick to get anywhere?
>>259732226
Okay, how about
>>259732365
>>259732195 ?
People like Jontron have their own communities. At least a million people trust the opinion of these people. They've already spoken out about it, so they have nothing to lose by making a video about it with your support. You can fix everything, anon. Besides, do you really want to work in an industry that is this corrupt?
>>259732554
Wait, animation is like this as well?
That was my backup plan if I couldn't get my foot in the door doing game development.
Fuck.
>>259732421
>Hes pretty burned by indie devs right now.
I think most people support him. But the cool kids would destroy your ability to promote and sell your games if you publicly said so. That's scary stuff.
>>259732554
I hope Page is doing okay. Is there any news about his insanity? Is he recovering?
>>259732664
I was apolitical when I put up my kickstarter. They came to me.
First time out with them and I realize I had basically signed a deal with the devil.
They get around.
Yet another dev here. I've left vidya long ago, but worked for a bigger studio for a while (not quite AAA, but close).
I can completely confirm the 'power' journalists have. That's why big companies buy positive reviews. And it used to happen quite openly, back in the days of actual monthly paper magazines. If you wanted a 90%+ review in a popular magazine, all you had to do is buy full-page ad space for a couple months, basically. Or be 'friends' with the editor (expensive dinners, exclusive gifts and so on).
If anything, this has become slightly better. Nowadays you have many choices to get your reviews from. And while I'm not particularly fond of that streaming fad on youtube and twitch, at least you can get a bunch of different opinions - some might even be unbiased and honest.
>>259732664
>Is it possible to make it as an indie dev while being apolitical, or do you need to suck that dick to get anywhere?
It's possible, it's just very very hard unless you are actively part of the circle-jerk. You have to work for every dollar, not get it handed to you on a silver platter of press and promotion.
>>259732808
TB is another group of "cool kids". One with a million+ subscribers. Is a million people not enough?
>>259732808
TB has a pretty substantial amount of followers.
TB doesn't even have to say he had a hand in all of it. All he has to do is keep the developers that want to come forward on a list and help them contact each other. The developers could just come forward all at once and say "this shit is wack, we're living proof, look at our numbers."
You know what? Fuck all this shit.
This entire thread is probably bullshit but if there is a game dev in here, fuck em.
I don't understand how someone can think they are a decent person and watched fucked up shit happen. Where's the integrity? Where's the decency? How can you live with yourselves?
I'm sick of all of it, going to pretend gaming died after '05 and just sit in /vr/.
>>259732024
>Rami Ismail loves arguing on twitter: its his main mode of communication with everyone, and he tells people to tweet him instead of giving them a phone number or anything.
Is he a fucking robot? I mean I'm a fucking shut-in NEET with no social skills and social anxiety yet I'm still able to (and prefer) having actual fucking conversations with real words that you speak and shit.
Jesus fuck.
>>259732739
Yep, exact same cliquey bullshit you have to tread around like a minefield. It's more transparent tin the indie scene with comics, but trust me, there's not a modicum of professionalism from the big leagues.
And from what I hear from a friend trying to make movies, it's the same thing in the movie business. From a friend trying to make an album, exact same thing with those record companies. None of it is about making quality products, none of it is about making art, it's all about a bunch of fucking freaks ruining it for everyone else.
>>259732980
>TB is another group of "cool kids". One with a million+ subscribers. Is a million people not enough?
For him maybe. But what, are we going to rely on TB for every release when we need a press push? TB has his followers, I don't.
>>259730520
Easy to say while you're anonymous, guy.
These are people with their jobs on the line. They can't just willingly at go out and speak against the circle-jerk.
Phil Fish was right, nothing is worth this.
>>259733347
No, but you can rely on him to protect your reputation to break up the circlejerk.
>>259733337
>
And from what I hear from a friend trying to make movies, it's the same thing in the movie business. From a friend trying to make an album, exact same thing with those record companies. None of it is about making quality products, none of it is about making art, it's all about a bunch of fucking freaks ruining it for everyone else.
And now they've come to games. That's what this is all really about. Social Justice is the Church of Scientology for the game industry. Either you're in, or you're out.
>>259732739
I like how some people think nepotism mioght be some sort of unique thing.
Like >>259733337
Said, it's everywhere and not just in the entertainment business. Welcome to reality.
>>259728762
Funny thing is it's not hard to do, really. Just google around for meetup events in your area. Utilize shit like Meetup.com to find local game dev networking events. Then all you do is go and talk to people. That's how you make those connections.
Shit, I've met a few of the involved parties or those close to them at some of these events. You literally just keep going, remember who you met last time, keep talking to them, and so long as you can get them to like you, you'll become their "friend" and be "in" with the scene.
Networking ain't shit anon. All of these people will freely give their opinions to a stranger in person so long as they don't suspect them to be a potential threat.
>>259730058
There are thousands of game developers, more like hundreds of thousands, so this act have more symbolic value. small developer with no connections will never see this money
>>259732739
Everything is. Take comics: look at the shit going on with Yale Stewart. Then look at how many of his main detractors (Ulises Farinas, Neil Cicierega, Ming Doyle, Betty Felon, Kate Leth, Andy Khouri, etc.) are all part of the same clique and how many of them also write for or contribute to Comics Alliance.
> ...suddenly the cool kids are back in charge. And they’re bringing the same circle-jerk groupthink clique mentality...
This shit happens with any group, and it's not about the "cool kids". Find any group of people that gathers over a common interest and there'll be some sociopath exploiting that group for attention, power, money, whatever.
Nerds just happen to be an easy target. Every RPG, gaming, CCG group i've ever been involved with has had a Zoe. The loud extroverted nrrd grrl that makes herself the center of attention and glomps, snuggles, fucks, and animus her way through the group until she's built up a harem of white knights.
I've seen this shit happen repeatedly for twenty years now. The internet just makes it bigger and more visible.
>>259732365
tb is an insufferable cunt though
>>259732071
What if we all just stopped using game sites or from now on we used google caches?
Like we had a thread to post game news?
>>259733625
He doesn't like Zoe and that means he is the Greatest American Hero
>>259733403
No, it's all bullshit, you know it and they know it.
An excuse they feed themselves to feel better at the end of the day.
>>259733560
Woah, what? Could you explain what happened?
>>259733329
Dude is a machine is what he is. I might not agree with his opinions, but there is no denying he is a workhorse.
>ask TotalBiscut or something to host a panel somewhere like PAX
>promise him/her that you and your team will be happy to speak at it about how the current state of gaming journalism sucks dick
>ask the host to give an open invite to other developers to speak their mind as long as they contact him/her beforehand
Easiest shit. Too bad I'm not a game dev else I'd jump at this chance to blow out a bunch of hipster fucks that know nothing about creating fun video games.
>>259730520
>ONE PERSON STARTS AND MORE WILL COME FORWARD DAMNIT.
I really doubt this. One person losing their career is hardly going to incentivise more of them. If this is all true it's not like they don't know how fucked the scene is.
Maybe I'm just a pessimist though.
>>259733686
he's brit
>>259731109
Because if noname developer tells the truth to the world, it actually seen by ten of his friends, which already know the situation. If word spreads little further, that man just brought down
>>259733704
>No, it's all bullshit, you know it and they know it. An excuse they feed themselves to feel better at the end of the day.
Trying throwing away a 10-year career in a specialized industry where your skills don't translate to much else, and tell me how easy it is.
Walk a mile and all.
>>259733885
But when no one tries, nothing is done.
And doing nothing is the same as supporting all this shit.
>>259733869
You forgot about the part where you'll never get hired to make games anymore.
>>259733625
>>259733686
>>259733908
Literally who cares. He is a USEFUL insufferable cunt. That's all that matters here.
>>259733994
>more bitchcrying and excusemaking
You're the problem with indie games.
>>259732664
Not that I could ever develop a game but in this hypothetical, it doesn't matter what your political views are I think. I'm extremely far-left politically and I do care about social justice stuff. But there's a difference between me being for it and me being a SJW and I'd have no problem expressing my views when I think people are being retarded or harmful or shit.
Being on the left if there's one thing I've learned it's that your leftists (I'm talking your people who claim to be communists, socialists, anarchists, etc.) will fit with each other as much as they'll fight with the opposing side. To these people I'd imagine their political beliefs are more a means to an end and same beliefs or not they woudln't hesitate to destroy you if you said or did something that put you on their bad side.
>>259731109
When I worked for a previously big deal retailer that is currently spiraling the drain and trying to save themselves, they basically had something that said:
Anything you say can and will be used against you to royally fuck you over for the rest of your life if it makes us look bad.
Now imagine that scenario, where you have to be the martyr. That you are the one who may potentially have to throw everything about yourself away and never be able to live the way you want to ever again.
I'm not saying it's right or that it's a good excuse, just saying that some of us don't want to. We either have something we value with the way things are or just fear change. It's just how some people are.
You don't have to accept it, but you do need to understand this is how people think sometimes.
>>259733573
>move to new town
>check out the trading card/comic shop
>there is a large group of friends that play MTG
>I go frequently and end up 'joining' the group and playing MTG with them every few days at least
>There is one girl there, not very good looking who I find intolerable because she's always chatting about unrelated shit to one of the people playing, and ignoring the other
>Her decks all have some really expensive cards, like Jace and Thragtusk
>She wins using Thragtusk and thanks one of the other guys
>I ask why she tanked him
>"He gave me that card"
>Other guy speaks up "Isn't that the one I gave you?"
>turns out that she hasn't spent a dime on the game and the guys were just giving her expensive fucking cards because she was the only girl
The fucking worst.
She eventually got bored of MTG and no longer shows up.
>>259731548
> BAWW FUCK YOU FOR COMPROMISING THINGS TO DO WHAT YOU WANT, WHICH IS MAKE GAMES
Shut up you useless faggot, Jesus christ
>>259733994
You know its a fucking excuse, don't give me that shit.
>>259733516
Samefag here:
>>259729404
It's very simple anon. We don't want to commit career suicide by identifying ourselves in any way. We know how these groups work and in order fo us to be successful in this system they control, we have to play by their rules. Any one of us coming out and sacrificing themselves as a martyr won't upend the system and we know it. Believe me, we want this to change just as much as you do but we know that in order to succeed we need to bide our time and and strike when the perfect opportunity presents itself. To do anything else is to throw away our livelihoods for absolutely nothing.
Indie gamedev is like joining the Nazi or Communist Party.
You're now part of the sekrit club who runs vidya, but only if you follow their rules. And good luck taking down Hitler or Jang Zemin.
>want to game dev because vidya is all I had when I was ostracized by cliques
>same shit as before, if you don't agree with the general consensus you get fucked in the ass
I hate people.
This shit just makes me want to become a NEET again. Or kill myself.
>>259734298
Why not talk to people in the community that you know will stand by your side? TB.
>>259734298
>Any one of us coming out and sacrificing themselves as a martyr
>one
Except if you're not a liar, there isn't 'one' of you. There are lots of you, all gasping for freedom. You ARE a liar, though, so you have a point.
>>259734298
But it is the perfect time. People with tons of followers are on your side now.
>>259734581
Will they pay my bills?
I have difficulty to believe any of this.
For years, it has been more and more obvious the journalists are the lapdogs of the game industries, trading good review in exchange of early peek and exclusivities, in the hope their unique contents will maintain them alive.
That now OP and other anon identifying as "devs" say that Journalists are actually the ONE being in power is kind of difficult to believe.
>>259734524
>Except if you're not a liar, there isn't 'one' of you. There are lots of you, all gasping for freedom. You ARE a liar, though, so you have a point
Differentfag
If they control the gaming press, and social media, and essentially the "prevailing wisdom" of the scene... how exactly would that work?
>>259731179
I wouldn't trust /v/ not to out you, but as long as you keep it anonymous it should be fine, just keeping it bare minimum should be enough to get people riled up.
>>259734642
You don't get it.
If these people are on your side, your reputation won't be ruined. More people watch Jontron and Totalbiscuit than people who follow the twitter of hipster mc pink hair.
>>259734486
If it's about the money, I understand, but if you want to just make games, just do it
TotalBiscuit is cool because he totally ingored the "indy clique" and reports on pretty much every indy game he can.
He was the only person that mentioned the game I publish on Steam.
>>259734642
if you prove that their right and they win more people will be on your side and play your games or whatever. You are literally ignoring the group that is forming for you to tell the truth out of fear. you are a pussy and you are playing it easy. it only gets worse from here. just wait until the very idea that you MIGHT say something offensive gets you shafted and shit on by these fuckers.
congratulations. you are a loser
>>259734813
By coming out ALL AT ONCE, moron.
Or god forbid, establishinga real studio together
>>259734785
>I have difficulty to believe any of this.
> For years, it has been more and more obvious the journalists are the lapdogs of the game industries, trading good review in exchange of early peek and exclusivities, in the hope their unique contents will maintain them alive.
> That now OP and other anon identifying as "devs" say that Journalists are actually the ONE being in power is kind of difficult to believe.
Unless you are Sony, or EA, or Nintendo, or Blizzard, etc... the gaming press owns your future. Most game developers aren't those guys.
>>259729728
>>259730058
These anons are right. It's stupidly easy to get yourself permanently banned from the gaming industry.
>>259730938
What's /v/ going to do for us? If we're indie and come here /v/iraling our shitty indie game you'll all laugh at us and mock our game and never give us a dime. Shit happens on the daily.
Not to mention, /v/ does not protect us from this corrupt system. Independent developers still rely on the media and their connections within the games industry in order to market their product. No one person can do it entirely on their own. You think I'm wrong? Try it yourself and see how far you get. Take note of how far your connections take you, even if it's just your friends list on Facebook or followers on Twitter.
>>259732071
Only just realised this, but the only time I ever go on other game sites is when something on /v/ is unsourced and I'm trying to find the source, or it's linked here directly.
Neat. I'm not a part of the problem.
>>259734785
There's a hierarchy. Journalists are under AAA devs, and over indie devs.
>>259724319
I bet the first game you developed is Making This Bullshit Up Island.
>>259734936
It is about the money. I'm not in it purely for the money, but I'd like to do it as a living some day.
Hearing about this kind of shit just discourages me.
>>259735046
I have often heard Nintendo doesn't bribe. How much truth is there in that?
>>259734895
You don't get it.
Look around what happens to whistleblowers, in other industries. They are brandmarked for life and most of them start a new career as authors or create unions for other whistleblowers. They can never go back to their old job. And to be honest, I like gamedev.
>>259734949
See, fucking seriously, he's big enough that if everyone started saying "we want to speak out about the indie scene" he would take your name number and tell you other devs you can talk to about it.
Don't forget, they fucked with him too.
>>259735009
I envy the simplistic look on life you teenagers still have.
>>259735167
Probably a lot. Journos have been ragging on Nintendo for ages.
Nintendo knows if they were found out, they'd lose credibility.
>>259734642
No. They won't. However we are at a point where we can majorly fuck Zoe with it. Like fuck her into pariah status. At that point they can't very well hurt you anymore can they?
And really you'd be the guys who helped cleanse indi gaming. That IS good publicity. As is appearing on TBs show.
This all hinges on enough devs getting contacting TB and him being willing to do it. But I really suspect he just might. If there is like 10 indi studios backing TB on something like that Zoe can kiss her ass goodbye.
Also stop antagonizing the devs you faggots. This IS actually hard for them and I can totally understand that they don't want to throw away their only source of income. Help them. The fact that they are posting here should be proof enough that at the bottom of their heart they'd really like to help.
>>259735094
That's what they want anon. They want to discourage you and make you believe only they get to play the game.
>>259734298
Echoing this.
This goes beyond money, or even careers, too. To some of us, this is our dreams: we've dreamed of making games for our entire lives, and now we have the chance to do so.
I bawled my eyes out when I reached my kickstarter goal. I bawled my eyes out again when I got greenlit. Every day, I google my game and see if there's some new lets play, and it doesn't matter if its just some kid with 2 subscribers, I watch that shit and I feel like I'm the luckiest person in the world.
Believe me, the second anyone tries to take this away from me, I'll fucking claw their eyes out. I'll break them, even if I have to break myself in the process.
But nobody is taking it away from me now. They take it away from others, and its the saddest thing in the world to think of what they might be going through, but you also know what everyone else with this life is thinking: "I can't risk it." They won't help you if you help them, so you don't help them. That's the danger. That's the reality.Well, I'm crying again. Good job me.
>>259724379
This idea of separation of "cool kids" and "outcasts" is damaging, not just to yourself but everyone. Ignoring all the stupid, inane shit that goes on according to you guys (hurrr they can destroy people with a single tweet), by accepting there are "cool kids" and "nerds" you are proliferating a societal meme that merely perpetuates that paradigm. We are all humans; games didn't suddenly get popular, it just turned out that almost everyone already was playing them in some part and now it's openly talked about instead of in the shadows. Video games becoming a mainstream medium is not a bad thing unless you want to maintain the secret clubhouse mentality which is also flawed because you will inevitably have to grow out of that at some point before you can become a functioning human being. Basing your life on the divide between dominant and submissive personalities is a stupid as fuck idea; why didn't you go into a career that could wipe out that divide entirely?
>>259733995
A lot of /v/ doesn't understand because they don't fucking have a job. Certainly very few of them work in an industry like game dev. I don't blame these people. What happens when they speak out? How do they pick up the pieces?
Look out how much these shitheads hate us, and then imagine actually them having control over your livelihood and an actual face to aim at. It's great and all for us to be able to aim at them from behind the veil of anonymity, moot bless it, but when your ability to actually pay rent is on the line, it's a different story.
>>259735063
>If we're indie and come here /v/iraling our shitty indie game you'll all laugh at us and mock our game and never give us a dime
>being so utterly full of shit that you can say this with a straight face while a Vivian James post is stickied
>>259735081
Being part of the indie clique giving you an infinite amount of free hype over nothing is real and obvious before one week ago.
>>259735073
>There's a hierarchy. Journalists are under AAA devs, and over indie devs.
Yeah, its funny. Going from AAA to indie was a huge shock in that regard.
>>259735375
What is your game and I will buy a copy right now.
>>259735208
Because people in other industries blow the whistle on politicians and powerful corporation. A bunch of hipsters do not have that power. People like TB have more power than them, and they are on your side.
>>259734120
that gabrielaknight wordpress thing said she had to hide her religious/conservative viewpoint or risk being shunned
>We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men
pic related
We need someone with a large enough voice to globally show the videogame journalism in its place. Not Jontron "large," not TBFP "large." No, we need a skit panelist on The Daily Show to say the truth. That is a source of news so widespread and plugged into the current youth that if it calls the bullshit, everyone will acknowledge there's a problem with video game journalism.
>>259724319
>>259724379
Twitter is a plague. Somehow most of the devs using it correctly are japs. People like Kojima and Kamiya who just shoot the shit and don't get into stupid online arguments.
>>259735296
No. I'm just not a coward. you're an fool. you're too naive to see that your dreams are being burned right under your feet. as long as you stay there or don't put out the fire. you will burn. THAT is the truth and you are in denial.
>>259735374
Why would I put years of effort into making a product when it has a big chance of not selling, just because I don't bend over for a group of people?
>>259735435
We wouldn't have given shit to TFYC if it wasn't for Zoe. Keep it real please.
>>259735591
I'd rather target the SJW to its core, but it's untouchable, you could call them out with evidence proving they are literally Hitler in a wig and they would be able to deflect it so hard it would burn you.
>>259728331
What if i wanna make a game but want nothing to do with their scene.
>>259735472
Only AAA devs have the power to call the journos out. But they won't since they like having corrupt and easily manipulated game journalists around to publish their press releases uncritically.
AAA doesn't benefit from honest game journalism.
The only way these journalists can be beaten is people power - consumers voting against them and their interests with their wallets.
>>259735795
Jontron is doing fine after he did it. They don't seem so powerful.
>>259731548
>>259734271
>>259734113
Oh piss off
The entire reason we're bitching is because these shit people have the fucking power to ruin smaller devs with their horseshit. A small dev can't fucking do anything to make an impact. You're going to need a big publisher to really make a dent.
If you really want these people to come out then all of /v/ has to make a commitment to buy at least 5 copies of their game, or at the very least, not fucking shit post their game to death on /v/ and maybe even promote it for them.
But you won't do that /v/. You'll shit on them when they come out just as you're shitting on them now. You'll pirate their game and call it a shit.
You'll get bored of this soon enough and move on to the next TORtanic soon enough. These devs owe you nothing unless you're actually willing to support them.
>>259735375
>>259735494
I'm gonna make this easier, e-mail me the name of your game and I will buy a copy. I'm not gonna tell anyone, I just want to give money to someone who is very clearly passionate about video games, and this is no matter how shitty it is.
[email protected]
>>259724319
I'm kinda like you, with same past and same concerns, but I am studying game art and trying to get into the industry.
Been slowly sending my portfolios off to AAA devs I've met and gotten some email exchange going and even interned and done freelance work for 2 different AAA studios/publishers while being somewhat friends with a lead designer in RSI and senior 3d artist at TT-fusion and good friends with some people who own indie companies
I've been hit with depression badly lately and making it inna industry after uni is the only thing keeping me from just killing myself.
I've been told its not what you know its who you know but I'm still insecure about my abilities, despite me being the best artist in my class in both 3d and 2d arts (those skills are roughly on bar with some game studios). Should I learn animation and some coding and spend a lot of time making my own game or should I just keep honing my skills at 3d and 2d?
>>259735497
Vidya has those powerful entities as well. TB might be helpful to promote one game despite the clique being against you. Then as soon as the scandal blows over, and it will, you'll be left on your own again. Unemployed.
For some people here, it seems really hard to understand how this works, I don't know why.
>>259735795
>I'd rather target the SJW to its core, but it's untouchable
You don't get it. SJW is just a tool. A bunch of people who start with thinking discriminition is wrong, and because there is truth behind that get rilled into being used to boost the personal carrier of people who only care about themselves and know which buttons to push.
>>259735167
>I have often heard Nintendo doesn't bribe. How much truth is there in that?
No idea. But I have never heard of a direct bribe. The way it works everywhere is soft influence. Both gaming news sites and studios are businesses, and they have a business relationship. Meaning the things that happen are in both party's best interest. That's business.
I think most sites try to write fair reviews, but the big publishers know who are friendly to them... and often limit exclusive access to friendly parties. That's what I mean by "soft influence."
Note how that scenario is entirely different for indie, where as an indie you are the press's bitch.
Here's an idea: find as many game devs as you possibly can who will speak out on the issue, and then you can all collectively air out your grievances at once in some way. Your voice must be absolutely sound; don't let there be any way for journos or dissenters to dissect your words. Eron has been in touch with multiple game devs over the past week; reach out to him first and find out how to go about it.
Or, you can continue to conform and let the industry run you. If that sounds better for you, then fine. But I guarantee this would be the lesser option in every way.
>>259735728
Because /v/ is pretty much one, if not the, largest videogame community.
Basically appease /v/ and you'll get sales from /v/, which is instantly followed by reddit doing the same
>>259727367
What it comes down to for me is that this generation has no concept of selling out. The goal is corporate sponsorship, it's whoring yourself. If you get paid to shill crappy headphones and energy drinks you have made it. It is so completely fucked up to me.
>>259735724
>an
fucking grammar
here have a picture
>>259735868
>The only way these journalists can be beaten is people power
When the average modern gamer is so easily manipulated, can that even be managed? I mean, /v/ is basically a really loud minority. Most people don't even think there is a problem.
>>259724319
Well it doesn't always work out for them.
Remember the story of Andy Warhol. He was damn good at his job and everyone knew it, and he got by pretty decent. But the real respect he wanted was being cut off by another clique every bit as bad as this one. Even his other friends in the same boat wouldn't speak out even if they had the exact same problems to the letter.
What happened was when things blew up everything changed. All the gatekeepers basically got thrown out and you got new dealers and new showings and a whole different scene from before.
I get the feeling that this is what's gonna happen. Kotaku and IGN and Polygon are basically gonna get thrown on their asses at some point and another group is gonna take over. I can't promise they'll be better to you but these guys will be gone.
>>259735591
None of them fucking care. Most of the people involved in video games don't even care, for that matter.
I feel like /v/ sometimes loses sight of how little video games matter in the larger world. If you're not CoD tier or the latest social media/mobile gaming hit, then you aren't really worthy of attention from anyone but gamers.
It's like when people attribute fluctuations of Sony stock to PS4 bullshit when in reality the gaming division is one minuscule part of Sony's operations. None of this really matters all that much to the real world, guys.
When the hell did videogames become this bizarre political battleground. Not even movies are this shit when it comes to things like these.
>yfw you realize the only way to counter the hipster fucker game scene is /v/-based patronage.
>>259735891
>the fucking power to ruin smaller devs with their horseshit
All we've heard is a bunch of cowards CLAIM people have been destroyed, claim they're scared, but have produced no evidence.
I thought you guys liked evidence. You'd think there'd be more of it.
>>259735843
It's like this.
Get into their scene and you're guaranteed sales, even for a shitty product. Stay neutral and it's a gamble. Speak out against them and you're blacklisted.
I guess if you work with other communities and voices, you can make money.
>>259736097
because gamers are weak and games are an industry where stories have been stupidly simple
>>259735876
They aren't.
/v/ likes to make mountains out of molehills in this regard.
>>259735891
Wow, a level of delusion coming close to Zoe's bullshit.
>>259735876
Jontron isn't a game deve. He is basically self-employed and self-suffisant. Even if it fuck up he doesn't have to worry about someone else taking the blow or seeing uppr-management blocking his content.
>>259732554
>tfw it's the exact same thing in the almost any other industry
You guys should just realize that this is how capitalism works and deal with it already.
>>259730058
Yeah and SJWs shat on, and called for that cause to be blacklisted.
>>259735891
This. /v/ can afford to be like this because they have anonymity and the vast majority of them won't ever get close to the industry.
>>259736131
You saw what happened to FYC. They basically buried it and it stayed buried for months. It was basically pure luck that it ever came back and even now they're fucking with it all over again.
>>259735494
>>259735920
I'm sorry
I acant.
You ahve no clue what one screenshot could do. Phil Fish visits 4chan. Zoe visits 4chan. Their supporters visit 4chan. Its not safe. I want to believe you because I believe people are good and wouldnt fuck over someone just for voicing their opinion but the only evidence Ive seen from these people and from how the scene is is that its not safe and it kills me to think how toxic it all is and that theres nothing i can do.
Im sorry, I cant risk it. I cant riisk it.
>>259735389
>This idea of separation of "cool kids" and "outcasts" is damaging, not just to yourself but everyone. Ignoring all the stupid, inane shit that goes on according to you guys (hurrr they can destroy people with a single tweet), by accepting there are "cool kids" and "nerds" you are proliferating a societal meme that merely perpetuates that paradigm. We are all humans; games didn't suddenly get popular, it just turned out that almost everyone already was playing them in some part and now it's openly talked about instead of in the shadows. Video games becoming a mainstream medium is not a bad thing unless you want to maintain the secret clubhouse mentality which is also flawed because you will inevitably have to grow out of that at some point before you can become a functioning human being. Basing your life on the divide between dominant and submissive personalities is a stupid as fuck idea; why didn't you go into a career that could wipe out that divide entirely?
I'm just telling you the reality. When I started in the game industry, this shit didn't exist. When I started it was about making awesome games.
But the self-styled cool kids took over. And now we have to live in their world. This is their world, same as high school. And yes someone internet-famous tweeting that you're a rapist can destroy you.
>>259736262
that is why send to email, you have 5 minutes left, I am not going to say a thing.
>>259736131
What reason do you have to doubt him exactly? The logic is sound and the recent controversy makes me feel like they're telling the truth.
Gaming is currently an oligarchy that can brutally lash out at anyone trying to mess with the pecking order. Just look at how FYC is turning out, they want this to remain as low brow as possible, they're trying to repress as much info behind the scenes as possible.
>>259736082
you say that like /v/ isn't easy to manipulate as well. See: the thousands of dollars we tossed at someone because they gave us a chance to spite someone we hate.
>>259736138
Fuck them. Ill make my own scene. Far away from all that shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gIeeK-HQM8&list=UUxXUQuvoiIAlpM2osoAitjQ
>>259735724
I'm not one of games devs. But I am currently trying to get job in an industry I love. And I HAVE been bullied in the workplace. Its part of reason I'm now a bit of a shut in.
I don't think your coward. Dealling with bullying in the workplace was one of the hardest things I've ever done. I'm not surprised your keeping quite.
Enjoy your owl.
>>259735795
SJW is social marxism, you can't target it directly. You can chip away at it by attacking its tools. Video games is a tool for SJW, you can disable this tool in their hands. Once they lose their means, the center implodes. This is quite hard, since social marxism is responsible for the innovation of almost all use of media to convey ethics.
"Cult" is a very effective word to describe SJW. Individually its members are extremely weak, they can't handle confrontration and therefore resort to mob mentality to avoid loss. The deadly cocktail we see with video games is that there's big money ready to pay e-celebrities that spread this cult. Remember the last time a cult had money? Scientology, which is now on the decline.
>>259736253
FYC is SJW horseshit, so why are you surprised that SJW horseshit brought it down? They're all the cattiest people in the world.
>implying any of you are developers
>implying you faggots aren't just making shit up for attention
>>259736159
This. The video game industry is very much in a "I wanna be a big boy!" stage, and is desperate to cling to anything to be taken seriously. Makes for a good soapbox for political agendas.
>>259732968
Former AAA dev here. It isn't even just the jounralists. Sometimes even within big companies the politics are so prevalent that not only do they have entire PR departments solely dedicated to being the middlemen between the Devs and the public, that you also have to censor yourself when talking to ANY of your coworkers. Any inter-office rumors come up that you might not be going along withe the collective group-think of the company? You're gone.
It's like, the PR departments are there to police you and say, "you can't talk to the public about ANYTHING without us telling you how to go go about it and/or approving it first." Don't believe me? Go look up average employees of big name companies on twitter and see what they do and do not talk about. Many say very little at all. It's not because they don't have opinions they want to share, it's because they are forbidden to share them. Not even with their spouses.
Whole thing is a totalitarian nightmare.
>>259736335
>>259736519
http://10minutemail.com/10MinuteMail/index.html
This is always a useful tool, I recommend you add it to your bookmarks toolbar.
>>259736336
>What reason do you have to doubt him exactly?
The piles of claims made with no evidence.
>The logic is sound
The logic that SJWs are a bunch of whiners with no real power is sounder.
>>259736131
>>259736167
Tell me right now motherfuckers.
If these small devs come out, will you support them? Will you buy their games? Will you buy their future games? Will you tell your friends about their games?
Or will you forget about them once the whole thing blows over and leave them out to die?
Doing to a charity is easy. You can pat yourself in the back because you think you did something good, but are you willing to spend your money to support a product you may not even like just because these people are on your side?
>>259736291
You completely missed what I was saying.
You don't live in "their" world. There is no "other". They are humans, you are human. The only one perpetuating the divide is you. No one comes up to you and says "you're not a cool kid". The reason you feel like you're in high school again is because you never developed past that point; you just drifted through. You need to make a change in your own head. There is no one "out of your league", there is no one "better than you at everything". How do you think these people feel? Look at what Zoe Quinn described in her past. She feels just as much of a bullied outcast as you, but you consider the game industry at her feet. Why are you different? You need to cast off the idea that you are lesser, because you're not And you're beginning to use it as an excuse for not doing things you could easily do.
There is a limit to the journalists power. No amount of shilling will turn a shitty indie game into a megahit, just some reasonably okay sales.
Word of mouth makes sure the truth does eventually get out.
>>259736661
I want to play the ghost game, it reminds me of Haunting starring Polterguy, a game made for Sega Mega Drive.
>>259732554
/tg/ here, it's not quite on the level of that for our roleplaying games, but there's this nasty circlejerk of Something Awful goons, White Wolf devs and rpg.net freaks who want to grab our hobby buy the balls. Thank god for the era of pdfs and print on demand leaving them incapable of stopping publication.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JiwRhDzWXk
>>259736159
We need people that go against them to make games with different opinions. SJWs are killing creativity and artistic growth with their bullshit social policing. Imagine if Scorsese listen to idiots SJWs. We are never gonna have our Scorsese ,our Kubrick, our Fincher as long as we listen to these morons who find offense in everything and who day in and day out attempt pre-censorship on anything that doesn't meet their views. We will never have our 2001 or our Goodfellas because of these people. Fuck you SJWs for constantly trying to ruin this growing art form. Fuck you dammit.
>>259736520
TFYC want actual equality and are giving their profits to charity.
SJW took them down because their cult leaders don't make profit by supporting them. They're not in bed with these people.
>>259736629
Over AAA projects?
Obviously they're rather ineffective at the moment, but as you should have noticed they are breaking in in small areas. EA comes to mind.
As for indies, anyone with half a brain can see that SJW's have a sizeable chunk of control over that scene. Indies are already pretty risky on their own. Most of the successful indies are a direct result of someone else talking about their game, not them advertising it with a small amount of exceptions. A very small amount.
SJW's could very well deprive a small indie dev of a large chunk of potential buyers, which could easily be the difference between pocketing money and being in debt for them.
>>259736089
Andy Warhol made art, though. You can't really compare that to video games, apples and oranges.
>>259736369
Also true. This board's general counterculture mindset is pretty easy to exploit, albeit in an opposite direction. Really, any group in general is easy to herd if you say the right words. Fuck, is there any way to win? Even not playing is just like plugging your ears and saying "LA-LA-LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU". Solves nothing.
Is there any reason Capcom won't put Date Masamune in umvc3 with the Well, what is it! taunt for his win pose? Do they hate rule of cool in AAA dev teams? Why do cool things never happen in AAA games, do you get thrown out for suggesting anything new?
>>259736804
Shit nigga that sounds fun. I loved Polterguy.
What's her name?
>>259736196
>You guys should just realize that this is how humanity works and deal with it already.
ftfy
>>259736335
My life is in your hands.
I'm going to go cry now.
>>259736661
People vote with their wallets.
So yeah, I'd do it.
Question for AAA devs.
what would it take to make games good again?
I'm tired of cinematic experiences, third person cover shooters, narrative focused FPS, etc.
Would you say that journalists have a bigger influence on the dumbing down of games or investors?Also, why did you reduce the stealth genre into a gameplay mechanic for action games and why don't you make a 3D platformer? ;_;
>>259735934
could any AAA/indie dev please give me some info/advice?
>>259732024
>I guess he just doesn't deal with stress well.
How can we push him to the corner and force him to spill every bit of spaghetti out of him?
Is anyone screencapping these posts?
>>259736661
>are you willing to spend your money to support a product you may not even like
Me? No, never, only retards do that. But /v/ is FULL of retards, so why do you need my approval? The Viviandrones have deep pockets and no standards.
>>259737028
its because the devs lost the creative control and games are designed by men in suits based off of what brings in most profit.
Each mechanic has a piece of paper with potential income and target audience attatched to it.
>>259736824
We already had that shitstorm ages ago m8. You're probably too young to remember but there's a reason that most major publications make frequent use of 'she' in their corebooks.
Luckily RPGs still aren't cool, as OP puts it.
>>259736705
get out of here with your new age bullshit
>>259737018
Not anyone related to all this shit. Also not a gamedev.
You are a fucking fool. I hope nothing comes of this but know that if this fucks you that you did it to yourself.
>>259735296
revolution is a depressingly simple affair
it's the planning that's complex
>>259734234
My partner and I attend FNM sometimes. We don't play very seriously outside of OCTGN because cards are very expensive, but cheaper draft games can be fun. Despite her being dressed conservatively, and clearly with me, she is regularly approached by other guys wanting to give charity.
They want to offer her shoeboxes of their trash cards, or they offer some really rare cards if she will play with them. They want to teach her how to play, despite her already being competent. If she ever does try to trade, she gets offered far more than her cards are ever worth.
She generally just refuses anyone who treats her like that, but the persistence and sheer number of these guys is truly astounding. If being a woman is not ezmode life, it's definitely ezmode FNM.
>>259737015
It's still quite different, it just reminds me of Polterguy
http://www.thefineyoungcapitalists.com/Voting
If this game comes out, I will mod in polterguy myself.
>>259736262
Its incredible how corrupt these SJWs fucks are. It fucking incredible. Good luck in the future anon. Hopefully vidya has a better future without these fucks. I know one thing, i dont trust any fucking websites that promote any SJW shit. NONE.
>>259736980
You kinda can. Especially this indie shit that's by one or very few people.
>>259724379
>>259724319
Interesting thoughts and insight, thanks for sharing.
>>259736989
Appraise each situation on your own, and try not to swayed by the opinions of others. The only way not to get caught up in group think is by divorcing your opinions and person from the group.
>>259737018
Sorry man the email self destructed, fuck
[email protected]
http://10minutemail.com/10MinuteMail/index.html
New email, is same guy plz.
>>259737028
>and why don't you make a 3D platformer?
competiting with Nintendo over that is very difficult.
That being said, I wouldn't mind a ratchet &Clank or Spyro sequel.
>>259736335
Give it up, son. Your word's not as valuable to him as his own livelihood and career. Just know that there's still some good people out there and leave it at that.
>>259737146
But things that are marketed a lot tend to bring profit.
Theoretically speaking, a challenging action-adventure game can be very successful if its marketed well enough.
>>259736009
It is like in high school, oppressed ones are minority, and even if all nerds stick together, they are still will be 1 to 5 norms. Most of my friends game developers don't give a flying fuck about what game they do, as far as they getting paid enough, so they can go on vacation with wife and child.
Guys, guys, what if we try to change it so devs don't blacklist people and only hire based on skill?
>>259736908
>TFYC want actual equality
If they wanted actual equality, they'd make the women do their own work to get their games done. Right now, they're doing the same thing Zoe does: beg for other people's money to pay for other people's skills.
>>259736414
but your denying the truth
your dream job is going to shit because the ones speaking are putting you down. do you think its going to get better? do you think its going to stay WHERE IT IS? no. its going to get worse. so much worse that you'll wish you were dead. You'll wish you never even got involved in this business. that or you'll actually buy into their propoganda and when you finally die and you realize it was all a toxic crock of shit your last moments will be nothing but regret. If there's one thing i've understood from these crazy sjw fucks its that speaking out without backing down works somehow. and if you have the facts and the truth then you've won. but whats worse is you've been so fucked up by these bastards that you don't trust the people who are on your side. everyone's like that. everyone has been quiet. but now when everyone is speaking up and calling this bullshit out you're still hiding out of fear. I bet when you think its safe you'll finally start speaking up. its sad that your so scared you cant make money off of developing a game because you cant handle having an opinion. maybe you should have tried not letting it go to such shit then. oh wait. that's not an option, right?
>>259735934
I'm not really in the biz myself just yet but I would say the best thing you could do is make a good programmer friend and start on a project together. That way you can focus on what you already do well and improve on it, and your programmer bud can do the same. Even if whatever game you bump out isn't a huge hit you'll have something you can show companies that I can only imagine would leave a good impression.
>>259737489
unfortunately it's difficult to change human nature
>>259737018
>>259737390
Nevermind, it's still there, everyone can spam it for the next 8 minutes if they want.
>>259737291
Shit that looks hella cute
It may not be Polterguy, but I do enjoy the concept. I get the same feeling out of it as well.
So can we talk about good, low radar indies then?
Anyone else play Unity of Command? If you like turn based hexagonal tactical WW2 themed strategy without going full simulator I've yet to find anything half as good as it. I got it all on sale, so pretty good use of my money if you ask me.
>>259736014
That's the tricky part, nigger. You don't want to peddle on /v/ since the first thing that will get screamed about is "bacterial marketing"
>>259737489
What if we made money grow on trees
and what if we just made everyone be nice forever
and and what if we made our indie scene with blackjack and hookers
>>259724319
That fat fuck that made psyconauts
>>259737636
ooh neat
>>259737492
>If they wanted actual equality, they'd make the women do their own work to get their games done.
Technically speaking they do.
What /v/ fails to realize is that actual video game development isn't just one auteur standing around like Kaptain Kirk on the enterprise, it's dozens or hundreds of people working on one project.
One of the main issues Quinn and her fuckheads have is that TFYC doesn't mince words about it. The winner gives a bit of information but they have actual professional directors and lead animators and sound designers who get that credit and take home actual paychecks.
Even then, they have to prove a fuckton before they get to that stage, since there are dozens of applicants doing shit.
>>259737254
>If being a woman is not ezmode life, it's definitely ezmode FNM.
women can play ezmode or hardmode, but normal mode is forver locked.
>>259736705
>You don't live in "their" world. There is no "other". They are humans, you are human.
If you are not in their world -- aka their scene -- good luck getting your game promoted. Oh wait, they destroy things that compete with them. See: TFYC
>The reason you feel like you're in high school again is because you never developed past that point; you just drifted through.
Is this Zoe? :p Because I thought opening up about my personal life was a bad idea on 4chan. I knew people would come in and give me shit. And yes, your comment is nonsense.
>She feels just as much of a bullied outcast as you, but you consider the game industry at her feet. Why are you different?
Everyone who doesn't have journalists and twitter celebrities at their beck-and-call to promote their personal projects are different. It is HARD to get press unless you're in "the scene," or you are AAA
>>259737570
Have you tried regret?
>>259737492
It's not meaningfully different than any other kickstarter game, from a consumer POV
If I do end up donating to it (undecided so far) it'll be because I want the game in question, not because of muh charity or whatever
>>259737596
It's why I'm supporting the thing, or at least was supporting it, all the detractors can suck my dick.
Suck my dick Phil Fish Zoe Queef Faggots reading this thread.
>>259737018
YOU FUCKING IDIOT FAGGOT FUCK
>>259737390
HOLY SHIT THAT DUDE GOT FUCKING LUCKY. IF HE FUCKING EMAILS YOU HE DESERVES TO BE DOXXED TO HELL.
>>259728634
deus vult
>>259736090
Funny thing is it will never matter without artistic integrity and SJWs will never allow artistic integrity.
>>259737767
I'm not a faggot though, why would I doxx someone, I just want to help his gaem, I'm gonna do some sleuthing and try and find his game now so I can buy it.
>>259736705
>The reason you feel like you're in high school again is because you never developed past that point; you just drifted through. You need to make a change in your own head.
You say this in light of Randy Pitchford being CEO of a major game studio. You say this when 20 years ago, the equivalent head of a major game studio was John Romero (who shared this with Carmack, Hall, and Carmack). Romero mismanaged his studio and mismarketed his game, but Pitchford is on record as insulting his customers while having played a hand in misappropriation of publisher funding. Gearbox is fighting lawsuits, and that's not even the biggest lawsuit the industry has had. You really think the 1990's were no better about this sort of thing between developer and consumer than the last 10 years?
>>259724319
oh man this thread gives me depression, what's the alternative funding option besides indiegogo and kikestarter?
can flattr or something similar help REAL indie devs?
>>259737660
obviously you need to be upfront about it
tell /v/ who you are in the threads you make, admit it's marketing, and ask for honest feedback
>>259737018
You probably just e-mailed Phil, Zoe, or one of their defense force m8
You fucked up
>>259736705
>They are parasitic middlemen, you are the content producers
Fixed
>>259736101
Ans then .... /v/ itself becomes the demon. Kojima was right again. Damn you and your prophecies Kojima.
>>259737741
quit updating my journal
