How are you supposed to enjoy fighting games?
I've always played them (MK 1+2+3, Soul Calibur 2, SSF2 and 3 etc.) and I adore the character designs on the big franchises, the sound and stage designs and the idea of playing. I could watch Evil Ryu and Ken go at it for days, and I still catch some games at Evo. But sitting down with a friend who knows as much as you do gets boring real fast. If, to 'learn properly', I have to get online and get trashed by strangers 3 hours a night for a month straight, or find someone really good nearby to come and trash me over and over, I'm not going to have the motivation to continue or improve.
Last year Skullgirls became the only game that has ever made me break a controller. The inputs feel like Street Fighter inputs, but almost as though they were designed to be difficult do properly. And there are far too many moves; no wonder, then, that a lot of the really good players you meet online just infinite combo you with the same moves over and over.
I'm downloading the new Killer Instinct on PC now, hoping that the soundtrack will be able to alleviate the masochism just a little. It probably won't, though.
>>340274452
>But sitting down with a friend who knows as much as you do gets boring real fast
Huh? To me that's the only fun way to play Playing fighting games online is the most unfun experience I could imagine.
Well, it's actually better to play with someone who is just a little bit better than you so that you can learn while still having a chance at winning, but equal level is fun too.
>>340274871
I have one friend who only plays them to make me happy, a friend who only likes Smash Melee (I think it's pretty boring), another who is a button masher, and a GF who is both bad *and* a button masher.
Maybe it's just down to who your friends are. If I can't play couch co., online is infuriating and solo is boring, I guess fighters are just wasted on me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKfrMT21VtM
pretty good explanation on why people find fighting games fun
as for skullgirls, that's kind of why i don't really mesh with it. i feel that it's built as a 1v1 fighter with tacked on tag assist mechanics, so every character feels more complex that they should. marvel 3 got around this by normalizing the controls and most of the cast, but still leaving them with uniqueness.
but yeah, you need offline play to really get the hang of fighting games. i'm probably in the same boat as you. love them, but don't have any means to play offline consistently.
>>340275024
maybe try to teach the gf? that or try to look locals and such.
>>340275024
>Maybe it's just down to who your friends are.
Pretty much. I have a lot of friends who are or were at some point pretty into them. If you wanna get in REALLY deep, like a couple of my friends did, you can attend local fighting game clubs/tournaments. Personally, I never really cared enough. If you have people around your level to play with then they're fun, but I'd never bother to "train" to get good at a video game.
Use practice mode, learn the motions. Once you learn the standard 236, 214, 623, 63214, and a few more, you'll be able to do the vast majority of commands in fighting games.
Seriously, it's not hard.
>>340275145
Yeah, I've been watching a few Youtube videos trying to get a handle on this stuff. Seems like this particular video seems to boil down to "Fighters are hard and I want to be good". Which is fair enough I suppose.
However in that musical instrument metaphor he says that a little practice leads to improvement. That isn't true. I play guitar, ukulele and drums and its true there. Infact, my motivation for moaning on here was losing 3 games online on SSF4 (2 with Juri, 1 with Evil Ryu) and then banging my head against a hard CPU Juri mirror for over an hour. All of that play did not help.
>Skullgirls, one of the easiest fighting games of all time, far less frustrating than SF, Kof, GG, etc.
>made you broke a controller
0/10 bait
>>340275372
I don't think the commands are hard (except in Skullgirls). Ask me to do a move/special/Super, and I can do it first time even on an Xbox pad. My issues that I stated above was the amount you have to be battered by someone better than you and expecting that will make you better, the very specific thing you need to work on and how to react in-game.
>>340275751
You would still be improving your imputs, you knowledge of character attacks etc.
CPUs arent really representative of how a real person plays anyway.
Also I think you missed the entire point of the video that guy linked. He's saying that fighting games aren't hard at all. Just time consuming. If you want to be really good at ANYTHING you need to invest a lot of time doing it.
>>340274452
>'learn properly', I have to get online and get trashed by strangers 3 hours a night for a month straight,
anon before online was popular, I used to play fighting games on the couch with my friends, winner stays on. competitiveness breeds competition, it makes you get better.
I used to go in the command list and do every move until I could do them 3 times in a row, flawlessly.
that way I knew I would remember them, all it takes then is stringing moves together in combat, which takes practise.
simple really.
most fighting games now have really good AI too. I know MKX does (MK always has) that is the only fighting game I play anymore really
>>340275928
I genuinely found it to be the most awkward and frustrating fighting game I had ever played, and I've played quite a few.
It gets 'easy' when you start mashing moves. I beat most of Filia's story spamming that little spike-ball move since you can do it in the air and on the ground (if I remember correctly).
Also that hair drill move is crazy too. Doesn't look as good as some of Cerebella's or Beowulf's moves, though.
>>340276143
>(MK always has)
Motherfucker MK straight READS inputs, not to mention the MK Walk bullshit from the older games. KI actually has good AI, since it's mostly based off what you do with Shadow Lab.
3d fighters are much more intuitive than 2d. god i wish they were more popular.
>>340276143
Competitiveness is also dependent on time. I used to play a crap-ton of Starcraft and then Starcraft 2 when it came out. I even got to Plat in HotS. I'm a full-time student with a part time job now though, and my friends are all on different schedules and can't always play 30 rounds of a fighter, so online is really the best I can get for human opponent grinding.
Other than that, extended fighting play only ever really happens on Mortal Kombat X, and 15+ drunk people want to play, including that unemployed guy who grinds the same two characters 8 hours a day.
A bunch of 2D fighting games and 1 3D fighting game which is much more different than other 3D fighting games. Gee i wonder what could spice up your life?
Pick a new 3D fighting game and try something new, i never see these threads from people who play those types of games.
>>340276143
>>340276283
Also yeah Mortal Kombat X does seem to have good AI. Honestly its just a fun game, and I can beat the AI's on Medium/Hard. Plus it melds competition and fun pretty well with those ridiculous stage modifiers.
It does reward spamming and button-mashing (due to the combo system) so that's probably why I enjoy it so much.
>>340276432
>i never see these threads from people who play those types of games.
There's a reason for that, you know. No one makes them anymore!
No one gives a fuck about Dead or Alive, Bamco seems to not want people playing Tekken in the west, plus they killed SoulCalibur, and Virtua Fighter is kill.
>>340276432
I don't really like 3D fighters. I played quite a bit of Soul Calibur 4 against my friend over Easter and just straight-up didn't like it.
Plus I don't like the animations in the SC series. They seem way too... Smooth and floaty, compared to attack animations in other games where you can see a definite start and end. It's much more snappy, and makes for better visual feedback.
>>340275024
It doesn't sound like you're playing with people who are on your level, it sounds like you're playing with people who suck even harder than you do.
You need a competitive mindset for those games, really have a desire to get into it and practice and learn and especially win. And if you've got a buddy or two who can't just let a lost game sit on them but want a rematch right away and figure out exactly where they did mistakes and what to change next time, and you're the same, that breeds learning experiences.
>>340276709
You should play SC5 then.
>>340276283
MK compared to all other fighting games has the AI as always being a challenge, and that is not counting motaro, shao kahn etc at the end of the towers.
compared to other fighting games it was always a challenge.
whateve you say about KI (I haven't played the new one) I beat KI and gold on the hardest difficulty just as easy as I did sf 2 and primal rage as a kid.
MK 3 and trilogy were some hard battles when you got to the top of the towers.
1&2 were tough too
>Good Enough to stomp my mates in any fighting game
>Always gets bodied in online games and cabinets
>The only mate who can give you a match is a salt mine/shitty winner
Who knows this pain?
>>340276709
There are more 3D games out there than SC. The most popular one is Tekken, until you have played that and say you don't like it then i got nothing.
>>340276645
You're not really saying anything about those games, just what's happening or happened to them. DoA fans are just talking about their waifu volly ball game atm, Tekken is getting more and more popular and will eventually come to the west on console. It's already having tournaments in the US. SC might return and VF i don't know because Sega is retarded.
Is Melty still alive?
>>340277376
Yes, just enter the Discord. It's always easy to find Melty players.
>>340277376
I saw some guys play it at the corner of the girls bathroom at my college. That counts as alive, right?
>>340274452
Xrd has tons of beginner friendly modes to ease people into fighting games. Especially Revelator if you got a console.
>>340276759
Yeah, I guess I am. I don't play competitve games with one of them any more because they don't like losing. Not in a salty way, they just said they'd prefer to do something else.
To be fair, we finished all the guild quests up to Goz in MH4U since so I can't really complain.
Since you say that you have to win, and want to win, maybe getting in to them so late was an issue? Like, SFV is out now (I don't really want it, plus it's not on a Steam sale yet) and I'm still playing IV. I got Skullgirls maybe, 3 months after it came out so I was behind the curve a bit.
Shit costs money though. It would be good if big fighters could do what Rainbow Six: Siege has done and release a slightly more anemic version of the game for, say £15. Just a Vs. Mode, Practice and online 1v1. That way people who want to just get in to the fighting right away don't have to put out a massive amount of cash, and they don't lose too much if it isn't for them/too difficult.
>>340276150
>>340275951
the motions are almost universally just quarter circles and dps in skullgirls
what's wrong with you guys
also the combos are pretty much universally just going a>b>c
skullgirls is braindead dude
>>340277585
>Just a Vs. Mode, Practice and online 1v1.
Dead or Alive 5 has this on consoles. A free version with 4 characters, rotating unlocks, arcade, full training and tutorial, and full online.
>>340277073
I had Tekken 2 on PS1 a looooong time ago. I used to play it with my Uncle after I got back from school.
I feel like I enjoyed it, but I was pretty young. So maybe I do like Tekken, on some level?
>>340277726
Tekken 2 and current Tekken are two completely different games.
>>340277717
As are most of the motions in Street Fighter (give or take, especially those weird hold moves). I was playing Street Fighter games way before Skullgirls and still struggle with it. It's more than likely something with the game, then. I think it's something to do with aiming it specifically at a competitive crowd who will understand and know how to use the plethora of tools available, which is just overwhelming to average, poorer players like me.
sc2 is so simple its really easy to have fun in that game, if you can't enjoy that there's something wrong with you.
KI is good buts its the opposite, it has pretty much every fightan mechanic put into one game. however lag doesn't exist and you can do everything with buffered chains, so its not hard to combo, the footsie/neutral/defense game is very hard though since the game has a lot of safe moves that are the worst "teleports behind you into combo" bits from MK.
>>340277931
No, it is all you. The motions are all standard motions and the developers actually designed it so that you could be as loose with your inputs and still get the proper motions.
It's definitely something you're doing wrong.
>>340277585
>Since you say that you have to win
I don't think you *have* to win, you just need close matches, consistently losing very close so that you can see where you messed up works too. as for getting into games, it's definitely the easiest to jump into any new title right on release but it's not like that's the only time you ever can. Skullgirls with it's focus on long combos is really tough to get into at any rate, if you're new to the genre that is, a game like SFV, you're always gonna find other newbies when you look through the lobbies at any point in time, just naturally the sooner you get into it, the easier it is.
>>340277931
it sounds like you just play really slow
>>340277726
Listen to
>>340277856
Tekken only started to get good at 3 and just improved from there. 6 and tag 2 went a little downhill IMO but Tekken 7 is fixing everything any adding actually good and thought out mechanics. Try Tekken 5:DR if you have a ps3. Or just Get Tag 2 which is for xbox and ps3.
>>340274452
>I have to get online and get trashed by strangers 3 hours
This is your problem. Instead of trying to understand what is going on you say "everyone is too good already"
>>340278156
>>340278156
You're quite possibly right. I only really like the art style and stages/characters in Skullgirls though, and my desire to play it was killed by... Actually playing it.
Maybe as a consequence of making the joystick inputs 'looser', though, they made it less accurate. I have never been *that* inaccurate in Skullgirls, but I have accidentally performed moved I didn't want to move than in Street Fighter. I put it down to the sheer amount of moves the characters have.
>>340278328
Yeah, I am a little slow. I try to evaluate a fight on-the-fly which slows me down a bit. When I lose to my friends in MKX they're usually just fishing for the same combo over and over, whereas I try to be reactionary.
Unfortunately, since I'm not very good, I usually lose doing that more than mashing combos like them.
Its awkward, period.
Skullgirlz is trash specifically designed for weebs qhobneed waifus.
https://twitter.com/jchensor/status/740091473379479552
Not only does Revelator have an expansive tutorial designed like a jump 'n run to familiarize you with the game, it also has plenty of in-game FAQ answers, missions for more in-depth gameplay lessons and other nice function like the virtual stick input window to give you an idea of what you migth be doing wrong.
>>340278464
No, I don't think that. I know the idea is to go on, get whupped by someone better and then watch a replay to see why they won and why you lost. I could do this in StarCraft, but fighters infuriate me a lot more.
Plus, of course people are going to be better than me. I've been erratically playing a 5 year-old game online for the last 4 years, with no more than a weeks practice in each burst. I'm admitting my mistakes, but I don't want to lose 50 games in a row to see how to solve them.
>>340278467
A simple solution would to be to go into training mode, turn on button inputs, and try a move. Then you can see that it's not the game, it is you.
I fucking hate it when people blame games that blatantly pander to their demographic for petty shit.. Skullgirls doesn't even have a lot of moves. On average it's got about the same amount of moves per character as most street fighter characters.
I just play online a lot because none of my friends are willing to learn. I don't really mind getting my ass kicked while I learn. I lost like it was my dayjob when I started SF4 back in '09 but improving is fun. I also like 1v1 more than team games because team games can often come down to who has more dead weight.
>How are you supposed to enjoy fighting games?
Play with someone of your skill level.
If you play against someone too good or too bad you won't have fun at all.
>>340278710
That's actually impressive as fuck. Does it have the character specific sections that Blazblue has? Those had a pretty good and simple run down of your character's tools.
>>340278710
Whoever made this image is a salty little bitch and i'm in full agreement with its existence.
>>340278890
Yes. Each character has a set of challenges that run through specials, supers, basic and intermediate combos, as well as things like RC combos and Dust combos.
>>340278890
Haven't checked Revelator missions yet, but SIGN had missions on how to play AGAINST all chars at least. And the combo challenges actually cover and explain some more practical stuff with text boxes like jump install for Chipp, Faust's drill cancel and unblockable setups for Elphelt.
>>340278710
But, its guilty gear... Ew.
>>340279161
>...
You're the faggot here
>>340279161
Commit suicide.
>>340279147
>>340279152
I know about missions and combo challenges, but in BB you had a mode that told you the character's anti airs, some starters, main spacing tool and such. Something like that would really work wonders on GG as well.
>>340279161
What are you implying Capcuck?
>>340279336
No, guilty gear doesn't play itself for you. If you want that, you should definitely go back to BB.
>>340279336
The challenges in XrdR will teach you about character specific matchup and how to deal with each character's bullshit like Millia's mixups or Faust's range
>>340279469
>How to deal with Bad Moon IA
I wish. Its unreactable even at Jap level and pretty much you have to guess shes going to do that. If its any other mixup yes but i wish that one had a clear way to tell/react.
>>340278865
I actually have been on training mode and turned on the inputs, frame data and all sorts like that. It's pretty interesting.
Also no need to get so mad. I might boot it up again now since it runs on my laptop and I'm having a break from SSF4 outside.
>>340279729
Not mad, just frustrated. You're the perfect example of why catering to beginners still doesn't work.
>>340274452
>Controller
I don't think you are enjoying fighting games the way you are suppose to anon.
Also find more people you can enjoy having fights against, that's just basic 101
>>340279336
The tutorial actually covers that rather well cause for the most part, GG buttons are universal. 90% of the time 6p will be your go to antiair, f.s your main poke, 6k your overhead, 6hs something that catches backdashes and dust being another universal overhead.
http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/index.html/home/zero-frame-whiplash-throws-in-guilty-gear-r469/
But yeah, for more indepth gameplay advice on a char to char basis you will have to go on the internet. Not like that's too difficult, Xrd is easy to find info sources on.
>>340279610
Actually yeah thats what the tutorial tells you. Then again, thats Millia's reward for winning neutral.
>>340279336
Search for Guilty Gear Crash Course and Airdash Academy in youtube. Great tutorial series
>>340278710
why does gg even bother when no one gives a fuck about it?
>>340279961
Speak for yourself, Xrd is very popular in the FGC.
>>340279435
How does any of that make the game play itself?
>>340280061
Yet shit clearly doesn't sell.
>>340280149
Man other games are so far behind SFV and smash
The FGC is in such an odd spot right now, it is growing but not as much as everyone would like. Even SFV which is doing well just didn't capitalise on it as much as it should have and capcom have just kept fucking up after
>>340274452
>and trash me over and over, I'm not going to have the motivation to continue or improve.
That sounds like a "you" problem.
Who /badatfightinggames/ here?
I recently said "Fuck it, I'm going to git gud" and got SFV. My biggest goddamn problem is fucking pulling out special moves.
I play Birdie, and get that chain move out roughly 60% of the time I attempt.
I play Ryu, and have gotten a shoryuken off like twice in total.
I try to play Guile/Bison/any charge character and can never, ever, get a fucking special move off when I want to. Sure, I can fire off Sonic Booms all I want in training, but in an actual match I can't. I spend the entire match crouching and then throwing out a backhand.
Trying to do a combo that involves any special moves in an exercise in frustration.
>>340280149
So as you can see it's a main game. You wanna deny that UMvC3 is popular?
>>340280214
It sells enough. FGC just isn't that big of an audience and the casual market can not appreciate most of the things that make a good fighting game.
>>340280149
>Xrd Sign
>Not Revelator
Doesnt take a genius to figure out why it didnt break numbers. Also Xrd Rev is now out of the anime graveyard hours at Evo.
>>340280362
Blame Capcom for rushing out a game instead of thoroughly polishing it. 8 frames of lag is literally not a meme, coupled with the lack of things to reel in casuals and have them stay, and updates that are 1 month behind, its no wonder the western FGC is at a crossroads right now
>>340279961
Japan gives a fuck about it. Which also happen to be the only region ASW gives a fuck about.
>>340280476
Open training mode, turn on input data, do the move till the dummy has moved to the corner, do it again to the other corner
do this till you do it consistently
>>340280561
they just put in xrd to make the tweet shorter. but every major that's had gg ran rev thanks to the demo.
>>340280618
>Japan gives a fuck about it
Someone post the release week sales for Sign and REV from Japan, I need a laugh.
>>340280647
Really, I wish training/challenge had a more informative mode. Like, if I am trying to do a combo it can tell me what I fucked up (hit the button too early/late, didn't charge long enough, etc.).
And yeah, I can do most special moves in training mode, I just can't do it in an actual match.
>>340280735
>Inb4 not including digital sales
Ok
>>340280561
No other company is making the FGC bigger though, in fact they are doing a worse job if you look at entrant numbers.
Plus 8frames is a meme, you can still whiff punish and react and it is not the sole reason people are quitting. In fact no one seems to be quitting, the issue is getting a decent wave of new people in
>>340280214
KI sold a ton of copies and the community is fucking dead. Same goes for MKX when a literal furry is taking all the pot, you wanna say those games are alive?
>>340280735
>physical copies
Everyone who knows just a bit about these sales knows digital is the main seller. Tokyo region alone has over 1k players.
https://twitter.com/kazunoko0215/status/736230747921518593
>>340275372
>the standard 236, 214, 623, 63214
What do these even mean?
>>340281004
They are direction notations. They correspond to different directions on the joystick.Look at your numpad
>>340281004
qcf, qcb, dp, hcb.
>>340281004
They show how to perform motion. Look at your numpad, imagine 2 is down, 8 is up, 6 is forward, and 4 is back. A fireball would be 236 with that scheme for example. It's used in most anime fighter guides.
>>340281004
Look at your numpad.
236 = Quarter circle forward
214 = Quarter circle back
623 = Dragon punch
63214 = Half circle back
Its just the notation ASW and other anime fighters use
>>340280968
>KI sold
It's f2p so download =/= a sale
>>340274452
>supposed
There's no right way. Some people enjoy just looking, some people enjoy trying to break the limits of the game, some people love the fundamental RPS outplaying your opponent mindgames, some people enjoy making the flashiest combo videos.
>The inputs feel like Street Fighter inputs, but almost as though they were designed to be difficult do properly
>Skullgirls
I'm sorry, but u fucking wot m8? Mok Zed hates "hard inputs" and SG is lenient as fuck when it comes to execution barring reset shit
I seriously don't get how flicking your thumb around is this difficult or rage inducing to a lot of people. I'd get it if every fighter had pretzel motions or deadly raves for everything, but they're just quarter circles for the most part.
>>340277376
I play like 3 times a year locally with people that don't suck. Liking Melty and living in MExico sucks.
>>340281194
Why are people strawmanning an issue about my input competency? All I said was the game feels like it was designed to be hard, and I've said at least 3 times in this thread that I can get inputs off just fine. Quarter circles, half circles, button strings etc. are no problem. Its what to do with the moves and how to react to an opponent that I struggle with since I'm trying to watch and react to a match that can be over in 10 seconds or less.
>>340281194
>>340282364
Also yes I did say that SG inputs feel like janky SF inputs, but I have a much, much easier time in Street Fighter and can do most of the specials on my favourite characters way more consistently than the supposedly more 'lenient' SG.
I'm not too fussed about playing SG any more anyway. I'm happy to watch it since I love the overall design of the game and think a well-played game looks gorgeous in motion, but I just don't want to play it any more.
I may have had more issues with it given my favourite character was Cerebella, and there are a lot of grabs, aerial moves and some full circle inputs.
>>340282364
Because it's more than just you, plenty of people here have complained about things like quarter circles actually needing the boot for being too hard. This isn't some made up strawman, even if you just worded your point a bit weird in the OP.
And if you've seen his hypothetical 3rd strike update, he really doesn't like unnecessary inputs. It's why SGs stuff is pretty simple on that side of things, even if the moves sometimes look or feel a bit weird for the input.
I like fightan game design and how it looks but the barrier for entry is horrific. Most games play like shit on controller so you need to buy a stick or pad, then you need countless hours of labwork to git gud and actually do stuff ln your character, and then spend months of just getting straight bodied online just to break bad habits and be average.
Pokken was my first fighting games in years after SF4 made me rage quit the entire genre. I definitely enjoy it quite a lot, but it still feels like baby's first fightan. Oh sure, there's some deeper hidden mechanics, but it doesn't have much of a future after this year.
I don't care much for Smash because I don't have local friends and the online sucks. I'm still pissed that Rising Thunder got shutdown by fucking Riot Games(Fuck you I don't want a LoL Fighting Game I want giant robots). I just wanted another fighting game that's simple to learn, but has a community that will last.
>>340284270
>I just wanted another fighting game that's simple to learn, but has a community that will last
So SFV
>>340284445
Nah, I'm done with SF after the shitshow that was 4.
>>340284270
SF5 was literally made for you.
IMO it should have just been 40 bucks like SSF4, it has about the same amount of single player content, anyways.
I had fun with rising thunder, but it really highlighted some problems with the "make it accessible" mindset. Taking out the inputs only made it easier for the good people to faceroll the casuals because they could focus WAY more on spacing and shutting their options down, making the fights look even more hopeless and one sided.
I can't fucking wait for that league fighter, so many people are going to pick it up and drop it by week 1.
>>340274452
>Last year Skullgirls became the only game that has ever made me break a controller. The inputs feel like Street Fighter inputs, but almost as though they were designed to be difficult do properly. And there are far too many moves; no wonder, then, that a lot of the really good players you meet online just infinite combo you with the same moves over and over.
Dude, there's literally no infinites in Skullgirls. Anyways there is no clear way to "enjoy fighting games." You're literally asking "how do you have fun" a question that must be the most subjective one asked ever. Some people have fun mindlessly button mashing.
From your entire post I can tell you do not like fighting games is because you are ignorant of the genre. Don't take it as an insult, you just do not know/understand/comprehend the basis of fighting games. While this sounds absurd, Fighting Games is a bit of mathmatical chess. It's about mindgames, analysis FRAMES of data within fractions of a second to possibly perform the best move in that moment, test of human dexterity (well fingers) into performing grand combos, resets, mixups, etc. Some fighting games have more depth than others, and honestly I'm surprised to hear that Skullgirls made you break a controller. Skullgirls is one of the most beginner friendly fighting game that also has tons of depth to it to be a high level fighter.
You have to figure out what kind of person you are. Do you just wanna button mash as Eddie in Tekken or do you want to get good with a specific character in a specific game to the point of learning maths like frame data and matchups? If it's the latter, it's all about dedicating time to building up skill.
We made it lads.
>>340285705
Dude don't make things more complicated than they need to be with the best punish moves for most damage with just enough frames to get the move out.
I play Tekken and while you could study frames for the best damage output on punishing you could instead stick to a few moves that work consistently.
