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How was Sin able to transport Jecht and Tidus from dream zanarkand to spira if jecht and tidus were just non-existent figments of a dream? How was Sin even able to enter the dream world and transport people from the dream world into the real world?
Zanarkand isn't actually a "dream world," think of the aeons, which are physical manifestations of the fayth, the fayth you see on the top of Mt. Gagazet are "dreaming" Zanarkand and the people within it. This results in the dream Zanarkand being one giant aeon essentially, and it is out in the middle of the ocean, which is how both Jecht and Tidus ended up in Spira.
>>339597361
wait so does dream zanarkand exist or not? is the zanarkand that tidus was in at the beginning an actual physical plane, or is it just inside the dreams of the fayth?
>>339597361
This desu.
In some lorebook of FF published by SE it writes and shows that dream Zanarkand is somewhere in the middle of the ocean, not in some kind of alternate dimension/dream.
Whatever Fayths dream up becomes real and with substance. In the cases of people its just their bodies that are made of dreams, they are souls with a fake body of sorts. All the people in Zanarkand were alive in the past, not some figment of the fayths imagination. I imagine if people weren't so afraid of using the predetermined safest sea routes possible for fear of Sin attacking them, they'd explore more and find dream Zanarkand eventually.
>>339597929
The "dreams" of the fayth are physical things, Tidus' Zanarkand really exists, it's out in the middle of the ocean, and it did actually get fucked by Sin.
>>339598080
>>339598075
thanks senpaitachi. That actually makes a lot more sense.
>>339597118
A better question is why the fuck did they rerelease a ffx and not allow me to get with lulu, rikku, or hell evenshelinda or lucil
>>339598075
Shame we could never find the ruins of Dream Zanarkand with the airship
>>339597118
Jecht is a terrible person desu
>>339598080
Also wasnt the "dreams" sort of a congolomeration of things. Both how the Fayth "remembered" past events and how they wanted stuff to go.
IE- Zanarkand as a construct is loosely based on something that at one time existed but is now this mix of memories and dreams.
It's a world where the dead can stay in the mortal plane for reasons that basically amount to "Because I feel like it"
>>339599536
Yeah, pretty much, it's explained better in FFX-2 with not-Tidus, but I hate that game with a passion so I don't know the details.
>>339599305
Yeah, there was no world map to explore at all since the game was a set of areas connected to one another and the airship was just a plot point and a warp mechanic.
Even if its one of my favorites it did a poor job of explaining stuff to the player. If it needs a lorebook to explain stuff for it then that's a problem.
>>339599449
>kills millions of people because he's supposedly a 'mindless monster'
>turns out his consciousness was aware and he was controlling it the entire time
>>339601086
No he wasn't, he was only able to gain control a little bit to avoid stomping Tidus into paste
>>339600929
i want to be lulu
>>339600929
>If it needs a lorebook to explain stuff for it then that's a problem.
It doesn't really. You don't need to know whether Zanarkand is a physical place or not, you just need to know that it's being manifested by the Fayth (which the game tells you) and that through Sin it's possible to go to and from there (which the game shows you).
Knowing whether it actually physically exists in the world is just a curiosity, it's akin to asking yourself how Materia physically attaches itself to weapons or something like that.
>>339602046
And yet OP was confused because he didn't know. And he was certainly not the only one, hence why they had to explain it in a book.
>>339602226
What I just said is that you don't need to know, so the fact that is not explained properly is pointless.
You can ask yourself an immense amount of questions that aren't answered in any story whatsoever, the point is whether or not those questions actually impede your understanding of the plot or if you're just asking them out of curiosity.
If a book came out tomorrow and it retconned Zanarkand into being a digital simulation ran by Sin's brain it wouldn't change the plot one bit, it would only slightly nudge a marginal detail.
Without knowing what was in the lorebook, I just assumed Zanarkand was Spira in the past that was conjured forth by the aeons and Yu Yevon
>>339601558
>wanting to fuck redhead bender
Best girl canonically ends with BLITZBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALL, daily reminder
>>339603384
waka is best husbando
>>339597118WELL, WELL, TRYING TO FOLLOW IN MY FOOTSTEPS, ARE YOU?
>>339597118
Both Jecht and Tidus are made from the same stuffs as the aeons. They are magical constructs conjured by dreaming ghosts.
Come to think of it they are also the same stuffs as Sin.
>>339603612YOU CAN'T DO IT, KID.BUT DON'T WORRY, MY BOY.YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE.
>>339603384
At least Wakka will make a loyal and hardworking husband. A little bit of dumb is OK in his case.
>>339603771NO ONE ELSE CAN DO IT.I'M THE BEST!
>>339598080
What?
No, it doesn't actually exist. It's more like Sin is a huge game console and Zanarkand is just a game running in it. When you smash Sin to bits, the game ends.
>>339603932
It exists inasmuch as the aeons exist, and considering you see Yuna pet Valefor, it means that you could hypothetically interact with dream Zanarkand as well.
>>339599449
>jecht was actually a decent dad
>tidus was such a pussy he forgot that his own mom was such a cunt to him he convinced himself it was his dad being a dick.
JECHT DID NOTHING WRONG.
>>339603932
It is a physical location. Part of the reason Sin destroys machina is to prevent technological progress to the point Dream Zanarkand could be discovered.
>>339604818
>Be belittling his son all the time
>Said son is still smol at the time
>Good
But you're on point with Tidus' shit mom
>>339603932
nope, Dream Zanarkand is very much a real place. Hence why Tidus had physical form even though he was a "dream of the fayth."
it stands to reason that his Dream Zanarkand was just as real.
I forget. Why did Sin fuck up dream zanarkand? He left it alone for long enough didn't he?
>>339607381
To pick up Tidus. He doesnt really have control over what Sin does or doesnt do when it is near people
>>339607381
To get his son was his intention. If Sin is near a settlement its instinct is to destroy it. Its why Auron was there to help Tidus combat the sinspawn to make it to Sin.
>>339605042
So then sin isn't a punishment but is just trying to protect himself?
>>339607906
Sin being a "punishment" is the Yevon religion's bullshit propaganda to keep the citizens ignorent and prevent them from developing technology that might agitate Sin
>>339605042
>Part of the reason Sin destroys machina is to prevent technological progress to the point Dream Zanarkand could be discovered.
Who "made" sin? Why would he protect zanarkand from discovery?
>>339598075
Do you know the name of said lore book? i've looked and i've only come up with rumors for a XIV lore book.
I wish square would release something of high quality like the Zelda Historia. Thats would be fucking awesome.
>>339607819
>>339607728
why was Tidus important? Did his dad believe he could end the cycle? Based on what?
>>339608251
Can't believe we're still doing this
>Zanarkand at war with Bevelle
>Bevelle winning with Machinas
>Yu Yevon transforms the entire city of Zanarkand into a summon of a dream city Zanarkand to preserve it
>creates Sin to protect dream Zanarkand
>Bevelle gets butt hurt and rewrites history, making Zanarkand a holy place, Machinas forbidden, and Sin a penance for the war
>>339608603
Because Tidus would know things about him that other people wouldn't, the song for example.
>>339608664
Who was yu yevon exactly? Zanarkand's mayor?:D
Is he driving sin? I remember killing him in the game.
>>339608985
Yu Yevon was a powerful, maybe the most powerful, summoner in Zanarkand. he basically became sin's core.
>>339597361
Then where the fuck were all the other blitzball teams that Zanarkand played coming from?
>>339608603
Tidus would feel obligated to do something about it when he learns of Sin's true nature.
That obligation rang true and its precicely because he was dead set on it that they were about to go about defeating Sin for good (fuck you extended later work)
>>339609181
Its a league within Zanarkand, I believe.
>>339608985
I think he was one of the highest summoners of zanarkand or something. Basically he becomes a creature called Sin who is pretty much programmed to fuck up machina and cities. He got out of hand so Yunalesca and her fuckboy decided they had to stop it, so they made the first covenant of summoner and final aeon, and kicked sin's shit in. Then the church of Yevon became a thing. (I think through Yunalesca's diplomacy with Bevelle)
>>339609413
>>339609117
They really should make a lore book that erases x-2.5 tydus exploding shit.
Stuff should have ended with X.
>>339609568
I thought square and them said that "yeah those things are dumb we don't pay attention to them"
X-2 is the end.
>>339597118
Why is there no Final Fantasy Pre-X where you play through Braska/Auron/Jecht's journey
>>339608307
>Do you know the name of said lore book?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Square_Enix_companion_books
its one of the three FFX Ultimania guides. not sure which.
>>339609789
I want this so badly. As well as a full Laguna game.
just post download links for ultimanias for ff ix and x
>>339610480
you'd better know Japanese famalam.
cause that shit ain't in English as far as I know
>>339603724
And the same stuff that the Unsent and monsters are made of. So yes, the pyrefly constructs are very much physical.
Well this makes me want to play the game again now that I get it.
Probably get the steam remaster during the sale, never played X-2. How much content does X-2 have? I imagine it feels like a side game but how many hours are we talking here?
>>339609943
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Square_Enix_companion_books
thanks
>>339612004
i havent played through all of it, but its supposed to have an shitton of content.
>>339608664
But if Sin exists to preserve the Dream of Zanarkand than why does sin end up blowing it up in the beginning of the game?
>>339612641
Because Jecht is Sin and he wanted his son out, that's who Auron speaks to in the intro.
>>339597361
Fuck. That.......actually clarifies quite a bit.
Cheers anon
>>339612004
X-2 has more content than X, and trying to 100% it without a guide is a goddamned nightmare.
>>339612641
Where ever Sin is, Sin destroys. It is hard wired to do so. It wasnt Jechts intention to destroy Zanarkand but he wanted to get Tidus out of there, so Zanarkand was destroyed as a side-effect.
This was all Auron and Jehts plan to team Tidus up with Yuna and get them both to old Zanarkand to either get the final aeon or make a different choice in how to go about killing Sin. Thats what Auron's speach before you battle Yunalesca was about
>THIS IS IT
>NOW IS THE TIME TO CHOSE
>DIE AND BE FREE OF PAIN OR LIVE AND FIGHT YOUR SORROW
>>339613993
>a goddamned nightmare
Try potentially impossible. Some story splits can result in 102% completion, others can result in a final completion of 99%. It's fucking retarded.
>>339612004
x-2 has a crazy amount of content. And this content all needs to be done and in a specific order if you want to 100% the game and get the True Ending.
You will need to buy yourself a strategy guide. Back in the day the PrimaGames one was the best.
It also has a awesomely varied and active battle system which takes elements of FFV's job system and FFVII's Real Time Battle and creates something great. It has a fuckload of Jobs that are all different and all mostly viable. Hell, Square have only recently created something that surpassed it as far as a battle system goes (that being Bravely Default/Second's Brave/Default Job system)
>>339614284
And dont forget some of the hilariously hard tasks to do to get the best items.
>mfw you could get Ribbon extremely early on in the game
>but you had to beat a mind numbingly hard memory action minigame that required a godly reaction time by the end
>>339614141
It's even more sad when you realize how Sin actually works.
It's 'power' is gravity. Seriously, think about it. Why is everything borderline atomized in Mi'hen? Why are victims blown out, then pulled right back in? Why are sinspawn even a fucking thing? Why are sinspawn filled with a bunch of pyreflies?
Because the pyreflies and the souls of the dead are literally trapped on Sin because of the gravitational pull. There is literally no escape for them. That's how they wind up being fiends guaranteed, and that's why you see the souls of the dead wandering around in Sin's interior.
Sin's "toxin" is just what happens when you suddenly meet a great difference in gravity suddenly. It fucks with your head because gravity itself fucks with your head.
All Sin does is just go places and defend itself while returning for the sinspawn for some inexplicable reason. Its very nature with gravity and the constant gravitational clusterfuck surrounding it is what causes all the damage.
>>339614605
>All Sin does is just go places and defend itself
First time I have ever seen a "SIN DID NUFFING WRONG" post
>>339614605
>mfw <<Gravijar>>
>>339614848
Sin is just a force of nature, and Yu Yevon at the current point in the story is just a machine going through an endless routine. They can't do "wrong," because that implies a consciousness that isn't there to choose anything.
>>339614848
See, Sin used to be controlled by Yu Yevon. Back then, Sin definitely did wrong--it was Yu Yevon the whole time. But eventually Yu Yevon stopped 'living', and just kind of went on autopilot. Actually, not even auto-pilot. All it did was constantly maintain the summon and infect the Final Aeons. Sin itself just mindlessly wandered.
Jecht, meanwhile, tried his best to control Sin, but couldn't. He knew getting Tidus to end the cycle meant annihilating Dream Zanarkand and all its people. He knew he would wind up killing everyone. He knew, and there was nothing he could do. Not a fucking thing.
Imagine being in a car you can't leave or drive, that drives by itself completely at random, and kills a lot of people in the process. The car itself can't do wrong--it's just a fucking car. But you're the "driver" who just sits there helpless as the vehicle keeps on slaughtering people.
It's like that. That's what makes it sad. It's an autonomous vehicle of mass destruction.
>>339614380
>It also has a awesomely varied and active battle system which takes elements of FFV's job system and FFVII's Real Time Battle and creates something great.
>FFVII's Real Time Battle
You mean Active Time Battle, which has been around since FFIV. And it doesn't even use FFVII's version (which is literally just FFVI's with a limit meter) it uses a more refined version of FFIV's with chaining.
Sin is the embodiment of Spira's long time misuse of the Fayth, pioneered by lord Yevon, Zanarkand is a city built by the Fayth to sustain the wishes and dreams of the Fayth that one day they may rest. Jecht and Tidus were transported to Spirta sans time travel because of Sin's ability to move freely in and out of the Fayth's dreaming. All the talk about time travel is evidenced by the fact that Zanarkand was destroyed 1000 years ago, which lends to the uncertainty that Tidus never really lived in Zanarkand, which in turn, lends to the principle that Tidus and Jecht are both from this dreamland Zanarkand designed by the Fayth so that Sin may finally be put to rest.
>>339615495
No
Read the thread
>>339615594
fuck you more than half of the thread is agreeing with everything I just said in synopsis
>>339615248
> They can't do "wrong," because that implies a consciousness that isn't there to choose anything.
Not quite. It is HEAVILY implied that the person who was turned into the Final Aeon that defeats Sin and who is then used by Yu Yevon to become the next Sin can exercise a pretty decent degree of control over Sin. Jecht is forever attempting to hold Sin back and keeps its attacks in check as much as it can.
Seymour for example would have used to Sin to wreck absolutely everything
>>339615495
>Sin is the embodiment of Spira's long time misuse of the Fayth, pioneered by lord Yevon
No. Sin is an armour summoned by Yu Yevon to protect himself.
>>339597118
What happened to Jetch's gains?
>>339616659
Have you ever seen Sin hit the gym?
>>339616943
Good point.
>"You got bigger"
>"You are still bigger than me though"
>"Well, I am Sin, y'know"
I thought this was genuienly well written sardonic banter here.
>>339614380
Bravely/Default is a pretty much wasted system, though, not even considering how Second killed the franchise. You don't really get to do anything interesting with it before you've already broken a few classes open to get BP abilities, and only a few boss fights actually require something beyond Brave x4
Tbh ATB variations will always be more interesting than strictly turn-based combat, FFXIII and XIII-2 were still more engaging than X or BD
>>339617271
> and only a few boss fights actually require something beyond Brave x4
Play on Hard. It requires genuine trial an error in terms of viable job combinations.
And Second was pretty good. Not as good as Default but still decent. The new jobs it introduced were all pretty cool, especially Tomahawk
Did the Fayth try to dream Jecht as the guy who would put Yu Yevon down? He was never forced out of Zanarkand, he just left on a whim, right?Was Shuyin's dad an asshole who ruined everything originally? Will we ever see more of FFX in non-retarded LN form?
