Writing advice
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You are currently reading a thread in /u/ - Yuri
You are currently reading a thread in /u/ - Yuri
How to write a good yuri couple?
>>2085075
lots and lots of subtext with no real love or evidence. just make them really gooood friends, but never have it go anywhere.
Don't forget the endless drama over ridiculously minor misunderstandings.
>>2085080
the/u/ demographic won't be happy that if I were you.
>>2085082
Um.....don't let them die?
Like all good characters, don't let the fact they are lesbian define everything they do.
>>2085099
Fucking this. Being a lesbian is great, but if that's literally the only notable thing about a character, then you've written a shitty character.
Give them both realistic personality flaws.
>>2085075
Give them masks and hats.
gimme example of a anime yuri and a western yuri
>>2085075
One needs to wear a chicken suit.
>>2085107
>anime yuri and a western yuri
Best I can do that fits both.
If you have drama, resolve it well. On screen.
>>2085075
Giant robots and arson.
Make their interactions fun and the sex hot.
No writing experience here so I've been wondering this a lot myself. It's not too interesting if there's no drama at all, but it's too stupid if there's a lot of it or it's bad and dammit writing is hard.
>>2085161
This is why I thought kuttsukiboshi was really good. it had a sweet lovely intro, turned into bitter tragedy, than a beautiful reconciliation . a good story doesn't leave a sour taste in your mouth at the end, but it doesn't hurt to have a bitter moment that can be resolved. if everything is too good, you get shit like sakura trick. those girls are all so one dimensional.
>>2085178
Unfortunately that particular moment was too sour to be washed away for me by anything that followed.
Conflict is fine, but don't put brother-sister incest in your yuri stories.
>>2085183
seriously? even though it was clear she didn't want to, even though it was clear her brother kinda guilt tripped her into it? sure the creators could have gone a different route, but it was so much more satisfying when we find out what really went on. it was heartwarming to know she was willing to leave her forever because in her heart she knew it was unforgivable. she knew she couldn't just convince her that what she saw was nothing but a guilt, and she realized what she did was terrible. and for the other girl to forgive her (thanks to her powers she was able to understand what happend) and take her away, to a world unknown, how could you not find that to be a beautiful moment between soul mates? we might have diametrically opposed views on what we consider a great work of art that deals in love and drama, but It I don't think you're being honest with yourself.
>>2085178
You have horrible taste neesan. Het incest cheating is just about the worst possible thing to put a yuri story.
>>2085075
Make the characters relatable and flawed. They should be different enough to provide enough frictionnot that kind of friction yetbetween then that they can't just pork each other the moment they meet.
>>2085190
I'm not condoning that kind of behavior or that kind of writing, but it shows how complicated human emotions are. she didn't know better, she thought she was doing good. we all like to think we are making the best decisions, even when it hurts others. but in the story, she left. she got on a plane and was planning to distance herself, so she can never hurt her beloved again. don't get me wrong, the het incest made me sick to my stomach, but it was a good example of heartbreak and tragedy. it was a good example of how everything we do has a consequence. it's not like the het incest continued, it's not like she fell in love with her brother, or even ever wanted that to happen. it was the opposite. You guys need to get over yourselves before you can truly understand and appreciate what something is trying to express.
Honestly the best advice you can get from /u/ is to not ask /u/ for advice. Write what you want and get bitched at when you post it in the wrong thread.
>>2085187
>even though it was clear she didn't want to, even though it was clear her brother kinda guilt tripped her into it?
I think my problem with it is that brother-sister incest is one of those things that are very uncommon in real life but very prevalent in Japanese hentai. So when I see it used for drama in a yuri show it doesn't feel believable to me, but more like the author pandering to that particular demographic.
If it had been the girl being confused with her sexuality and going out with some classmate that asked her out I would have accepted it (although really I'd rather have drama come from other sources than het altogether).
>>2085075
>one girl is young 15 year who just entered high school
>she's blonde, bright and energetic and eager to socialize
>on her first day she meets the dark queen of school, year or two older girl with long black hair and a serious expression fixed on her face
>the dark girl does something to piss off the blonde and then walks off leaving the blonde fuming
>blonde complains to her friends
>her friends explain about some tragedy/mystery or both surrounding the dark girl
>the blonde is now slightly more sympathetic and decides to make friends with the dark girl
>dark haired girl continuous being insufferable but the blonde is stuck in her efforts to befriend her
>they have out of school event
>"why don't you leave me. Walk out and abandon me, everyone always does. They see me as the perfect student, the student council president but now as me"
>"you're in lot of pain. I [insert unexpected tragic backstory here] but I've resolved to live my life as happily as possible! And you can too. I will help you, I will be your support!"
ET VOILA one high school yuri one shot done and finished.
>>2085231
this is so many stories is scary
>>2085235
That's what happens when you read one hundred too many yuri one shots. you auto-generate them in your head.
I wrote about a young girl who stopped feeling after repeated tragedy, rather it was a lack of energy to feel bad. Stopped pursuing the music she loved until she met another musician, a cellist. Long story short cellist is older than her, pushes her to go to music school, drama ensues as cellist comes on to her, she's unsure, literally lets her do what she wants to her body but doesn't feel love. As time passes, girl moves in with cellist (this is in USA btw) things come to a climax and end as she applies, gets in, but this means they'll be an ocean apart from each other. Cellist starts getting angry at her for wanting to stay, says she picked her up because she wanted a plaything, and now cellist is bored of her and sending her off to school. You can stay here until you move out, I'll give you a little money, etc.
She leaves, stays out of the home for a week, cellist files police report, she's been homeless wandering the streets, sleeping where they first met but getting as drunk as possible in the process. Eventually arrested, bailed out by cellist.
They make their way back, MC starts to strip, looks at cellist, says "well, here. I'm ready". Cellist asks her what she's doing, tells her to put her clothes back on. MC goes "but isn't this all I'm good for? am I that disgusting?"
Cellist says sit down we need to talk, MC goes "about how you did all this for my own good? How you think I have no future with you and that it would never work out, that I'm throwing out a good life by staying with you?"
"Go ahead. I'm all ears. We both know you did it because that's the easy way for you. Saves you the pain of telling me how you really feel. I'm not hurt by the fact you tried to send me away. I'm hurt because I thought we were closer than that, I thought this was love, the stuff you only read about, that goes both ways, when you give a piece of yourself to someone and that void is filled by a piece from them."
MC crying, apologizes, rushes to her room, lock it. (1/2)
>>2085231
That's adorable.
>>2085178
I would have to watch it to be certain, but fuck me if the plot summary doesn't sounds like one gratuitous "titillating" cliche after another.
>>2085237
cellist in tears, the leaving date is tomorrow. Notices her application papers and CD on the work desk, listens to the song, reads the notes about how the song was written for a lover, cellist has to leave and cry in the hallway because of how moved she is by the song.
fast forward to the day of the flight to UK where the school is. Cellist opens door with key to MC's room, finds her feverish, takes care of her. Spent the night making phone calls and pulling all strings available.
Cellist takes MC to the airport, before they get on the flight, she orders a ticket for the same flight, talks to MC and tells her she acquired employment right by the school in a local symphony orchestra. Big climax moment as she grabs her and looks her in the eyes, apologizes, and asks her to marry her. Cellist is 24 btw MC is 19. Both in tears making a scene at the airport, notice that their flight is leaving soon pops up.
They run to the gate, make it on board, start laughing their asses off. Talk about toblerone chocolate, feed each other chocolate as cellist explains she sold everything and anything she had except her cello and some clothes, bought property near the Uni. Guess they're both brit bongs now. All secrets and feelings out in the open.
and thats it.
>>2085237
She was raped, wasn't she?
>>2085248
she didn't say no anon. She just let it happen, reciprocated a little. The whole love thing developed as time passed on, she got the hots for the cellist and even began a few encounters.
With the characters I have, one of them is hot-headed and highly emotional and easily upset, but is kind and caring towards others.
The other is calm and reserved, but comes across as very blunt and can seem insensitive at times.
>>2085250
No, the mysterious repeated tragedy thing.
>>2085252
Her entire family died but she didn't feel much loss, she didn't feel much attachment to them considering the abuse. Then comes the loss of scholarships, mental breakown her "friends" abandoning her, homelessness, she was only almost raped a few times but fought back enough to be beaten to a pulp instead.
I was considering a rape though, but the thought of writing it unsettles me.
>OP asks for writing advice
>/u/ makes another idea dump thread
Well technically OP could have to the /lit/ thread or the /ff/ thread.
>>2085231
Where I can give you my lesbian money?
>>2085075
just create whatever traits makes u uwu and blush between two people
that way it will be more original
>>2085161
I could never figure out how to go from "cute gay girls doing fun things" to something resembling an actual plot without either encountering scenes I've no experience with or making everything center around lesbians, and I've read enough YA to be tired of that.
Books, how do they work
>>2085411
I kind of get tired with YA novel clichés
>>2085411
I mean, maybe write a plot and then insert the "cute lesbians" somewhere in there? The plot doesn't need to be about the romance, it can just be a side thing. Maybe start from an existing work with some subtext and re-write it so it's explicit?
>>2085411
I'm trying to write something too. Not a book, but I would make episodic plots of whatever to flesh out the characters and their relationships and every so often, throw in a clue or a reoccurring character for the final overarching plot to tie the story together. Gravity Falls and SU do it rather well.
I can't figure out who will end up with the main lesbian yet, but what's interesting will be the side characters who show a hint of themselves through their actions in different situations.
You can also try putting a character through an unavoidable life situation and letting their personalities steer the plot.
>>2085411
Read more.
>>2085524
>I can't figure out who will end up with the main lesbian yet
I like that. That's one of the things that I wish yuri had more of. Most of the time you know from the very beginning who's going to be paired with who.
Of course, that also means you're inevitably going to be sad when the pairing you like doesn't happen, but I think it's worth it.
>>2085257
>Her entire family died but she didn't feel much loss, she didn't feel much attachment to them considering the abuse. Then comes the loss of scholarships, mental breakown her "friends" abandoning her, homelessness, she was only almost raped a few times but fought back enough to be beaten to a pulp instead.
Jesus fucking shitcunt Christ.
Op, this is a negative example. Don't do this.
>>2085850
If you wanna do it all, then I recommend pacing yourself with this stuff. It'll come off as really edgy if you infodump so much tragedy at the beginning to introduce your character. Your character needs her personality to shine through.
>>2085539
To be fair, it's
>a plot where the mc happens to be a shy lesbian
Instead of a love story.
>>2085850
Real life makes for shit fiction because life has no dramatic structure to it. Sure, shitty things happen in life, but in fiction there's a fairly linear progression in audience reaction to tragedy. It starts painful, becomes dull and eventually when things go full SUFFERING the audienceat least I dosimply starts laughing at the grimderp.
>>2085202
This.
What are you all even doing here.
>>2085850
were you also the one posting a sample in the /u/ lit thread?
your plot seems to indicate you want to write a romance story. if you want to keep the entirety of a tragic past intact then my suggestion would be to distill it into, at most, three or four revelations. maybe touch on it at the beginning, and then have the rest come out as the characters get to know each other. have it function as part of their bonding. have the mc relate a current event to something in her past, just inside her own head.
dumping it all as exposition would be a slog for the reader, especially at the beginning. keeping it short will aid in poignancy. and yeah, you'll still be writing a trope, but that's unavoidable to an extent. if it's based on your own life, you should be able to use your own experiences and feelings to make the story more legit.
>>2085107
>anime yuri
"but we're both girls!"
>western yuri
one of the lesbians must be shot. no exceptions.
>>2085876
>>western yuri
>one of the lesbians must be shot. no exceptions.
>lesbians, plural
It's always a bi/lesbian pairing.
>>2085075
>How to write a good yuri couple?+ 0 post omitted.
Make sure neither of them have penises
>>2085885
shit, you're right, my bad.
*the lesbian must get shot, no exceptions.
>>2085890
You smug motherfucker, you.
Make it slow burning. Show the little details of the progression of the relationship. Things like them going out for coffee, getting ready for their day, walking to work/school together, calling or texting, things like that help the viewer get to know the characters, as well as see the two become more comfortable and make the end result that much more satisfying
>>2085099
/thread
characters can be gay, but letting their sexual preference makes them one dimensional and cab act as a personal agenda for the writer rather than a personality.
How does /u/ feel about men having role in a story non-romantically. Does it trigger purityfags too much?
>>2085910
The girls have to have fathers, I guess.
>>2085910
Something will always trigger someone, sister
What matters is if the male character is an actual character, not a self insert or a comedic relief
>>2085910
seeing a male teacher doesn't bother me, but I see no reason for male characters if I'm watching it exclusively for the Yuri.
>>2085916
Addendum: sort of like Ushio's brother in Sasameki Koto.
>>2085910
I'm quite fine with it actually. They just can't enter a mutual relationship with either half of the lesbian pair the work promises. There's nothing wrong with having a brother/friend/father in a supporting role. Hell in a lot of fanfiction I actually find myself wondering where the fuck are these specific sorts of characters, as they really tend to lose their roles or roles they could fill.
>>2085885
Same for yuri, a lot of yuri couples have a bisexual girl too. Not an issue, really, unless you're that butthurt about Utena.
>>2085910
What about Yuri NTR? As in, a dimwitted haremlead being NTR'd?
>>2085922
I think it would actually be fun to have a male harem MC who lives his life as if all the girls around him were in his harem like his animes, but only he doesn't realize that they're all obviously gay for each other and not just tsundere towards him. Lots of opportunity for comic misunderstandings.
>>2085924
I'd rather not have a pig sexually harassing yuri couples though.
>>2085924
this doesn't sound like fun at all. it would leave focus on him too many times for this so called comic relief. that time spent trying to be funny could have been spent on more girls being lovely with each other, and I guess character development.
Make the bi girl go out with the main girl at the end. Simple as that.
PS, give them have opposite personality so they could share different interest.
>>2085934
If I write a story about a bisexual girl going for the pussy while the male is portrayed as a dimwitted cuck, will I trigger absolutely everyone?
>>2085939
Yea. but instead of that, use the ex boyfriend as a backdrop of her saying"you know what the past is in the past now that I have you! (girl mc). And never mentioned him again.
You could the guy as a supporting role though (without romance)
>>2085924
That sounds awful. How about male harem MC who eventually realizes he is insane, his childhood friend girl is just a Tyler Durden-esque split personality and he is in fact a girl and ends up with a lesbian harem at the end.
>>2085931
I agree, there is nothing worse than the bland, cipher MC that only exists to meet a quota for a male character for male readers to self insert with.
>>2085958
Nigga you write even worse than the first anon. Get that tranny shit outta here
>>2085910
It's fine if they have their own thing going on instead of existing for the sake of drama. The Bloom into You guys make the world feel more complete. Its just that a lot of yuri series throw in the guy to specifically derail the relationship.
>>2085924
I'd rather have the opposite. A good looking boy has several girls crushing on him, but is a hardcore yuri fanboy who ships the girls around him together. He covertly engineers yuri situations and gets them to fall in love with each other.
>>2085958
I want to see a male hero MC who is entirely uninterested in romance with his party members, wants to kill the demon lord so that he can go home and marry his childhood friend already, and is utterly fed up with his all-female party flirting with each other and generally being unprofessional while the world is at stake.
In the last episode, the demon lord gets defeated and peace is brought to the realm, and it turns out that his childhood friend is actuallythe "cool" rival character, who is equally happy that he no longer has to put up with his own group of lesbian anti-heroines.
>>2086241
This, leave the romancing to the girls.
>male MCs in yuri
Why do people keep bringing up this shitty idea? Isn't 95% of everything else enough?
>>2086419
It's because muh realism.
I wouldn't mind if the hero was a sociopathic anti-hero who only cared about killing the enemy, and had zero interest in romance. All the flirting and couples would be between the females.
Someone like Big Boss from Metal Gear would be cool.
I'd like both yuri protagonists to be badass girls. And you can do that in different ways. Girl A is physically intimidating, a dangerous ninja fighter. Girl B is traditionally girly and physically weak but she's deadly with her intellect.
Something like that.
I've noticed in a lot of yuri stories, Girl A will usually be someone badass (Chikane) while Girl B will be totally useless (Himeko). Please find a way to balance out both girls so they match each other without the distressed damseling of one of the girls. Although it would be fun if they both took turns getting the damsel in distress roles and rescue each other. That'd be mighty cute.
>>2086203
That's literally the plot of Kiss Him Not Me but with yuri.
what about a chubby girl going out with the skinny girl?
>>2085086
They'll bitch about it, but everything that isn't angst is 'yuri for guys'
>>2086805
The problem that if it isn't outright confirmed there will still be autists saying otherwise just look at Nanoha
>>2086652
>a man's creative soul
What
>>2086812
Do you mean Takahashi?
>>2086785
Good idea.
>>2086652
>deleted
nice hugbox
>>2087261
Blame twitchy mods that will delete anything they dislike but keep what they do like that doesn't belong.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SoYouWantTo/WriteAYuriManga
This is applicable to more than just Manga. Have fun.
>>2087264
We forfeit our asses to the mods upon using this site.
It's in the rules.
>>2087261
You sound mad.
>>2087261
>>2087264
what's not allowed on /u/:
>retarded bisexuals who go off topic about men
>retarded /d/ fags who post futa
>retarded salty dudes who post their bad experiences with women because they can't turn off their /r9k/ mode
>only men can be creative
clearly you have not read much
>this is the harsh troof you gaiz
maybe your harsh reality, but here's a pro tip since you're bad with women, ditch bitches, get nice girls.
>>2087289
That post is right though.
>>2087289
you are one salty baby
>>2087289
dude you "advice" was a vague useless rant on why you suck at relationships.
>>2087303
his post was on topic at first, but the last two sentences of his point pretty much turned his post into some /r9k/ drivel.
A lot of irl f/f relationships fall apart because both partners are submissive and expect the other to take the more masculine proactive role, yeah, that happens. But we can talk about female/female issues without the "muh relationships with girls were bad because it's all their fault obviously, they are not as creative as me" bullshit.
>>2087304
It just pisses me off that people think deleting opinions they don't like is the solution. So what if his views are "/r9k/"? Just tell him that you think he is wrong and why (like you did in your post). Instead we get these mods that literally try to enforce tumblr hugbox culture on /u/.
>>2087306
I won't complain too hard because the same mods also clear out futa and inane shitposting fairly quickly, which is nice.
Stop replying to the fucking troll you stupid fucks. Holy shit.
>>2087309
>unpopular opinions are "trolling"
(you)
>>2087306
his post went from reasonable to stupid with only two statements. On reddit, he'd be dwnboated, on tumblr, he'd get angry mail and angry reblogs, on 4chan, he just gets deleted.
That's just how it works. If he had just not typed those two statements, his post would still be up there and I'd agree with him.
>>2087317
>I'd agree with him
Do any of us really know enough lesbians to agree or disagree?
>>2087318
well I am one and I'm surrounded by reasonable women who don't blame "the patriarchy" for their problems so.....
>inb4 on the internet, my daddy owns Nintendo
Look, reality sucks. You can write a yuri story based on real life, about how you got fucked over by bisexual women, how your relationship to a girl went down the shitter, that's all in your power. If horrific "based on a true story" drama is your cup of tea, go for it.
But I really like the fantasy. the happy endings, the fun good stuff, the romance novel trash to escape from real life. There's a lot of depressing yuri stories, but I like the brighter ones better. That's just me.
>>2087310
No, but derailing this thread into your crusade for muh free speech is. You are the cancer that is killing 4chan right now.
>>2087322
>inb4 on the internet, my daddy owns Nintendo
I thought it was reasonably well accepted that /u/ has its own small colony of lesbians.I am one too, I'm just not particularly friendly with any others.
>>2087322
>well I am one and I'm surrounded by reasonable women who don't blame "the patriarchy" for their problems so.....
No, you're just crying about mods oppressing you horribly by deleting your whiny shitpost. You poor baby.
And that's why women dump you IRL. Nobody likes whiners.
>>2087333
megucas drawn in a western style always disconcert me
So I shouldn't write about when a girl I liked got bored of waiting for me and met some dude, and I ended up dating the friend who had recently started shipping previous girl x me?
>>2087369
Damn it, forgot to add that the friend is a woman too.
mmmmm i love the warmth of shitposting and hostility. it's why this place is so cozy.
>>2087310
it could be, the dude did come to /u/ and claim the purest form of love was invalidated due to the lack of creative penis.
>>2087369
>>2087373
if you write this story and keep the guy a guy, the people that hate bisluts and men anywhere in yuri won't like it. and depending on how it's written anyone who is tired of men being vilified in yuri won't like it.
if you write this story and switch the guy to a girl, then the people that are tired of there being zero men in yuri (and thus creating an unrealistic environment) won't like it.
but someone else will probably like it either way.
>>2087369
Why shouldn't you? Go for it. There will always be someone (like the retard above screaming about women) that doesn't like it, but there will be more people that are all for it if what you're doing is good.
That is all that matters in the end. Make it good, and it'll be liked.
>>2087393
>the people that are tired of there being zero men in yuri (and thus creating an unrealistic environment) won't like it.
I don't think any of us are saying that a romantic male rival must be added to a yuri series so that it becomes "realistic". It's just that it's nice to see supportive male characters, like brothers (eg. Prism) or best friends (eg. Their Story).
Frankly the whole male love rival plot has been done to death already, and it's just annoying to see at this point, especially since the readers know he won't get the girl (or if he does, the series is automatically shit anyway).
>>2085075
First you write two good female characters. Then you make them fall in love.
Avoid using subtext only, unnecessary drama over absolutely nothing, killing one of them at the end and only do a love triangle of any sort if you are really good at writing, because it's been done to death to the degree that unless it is done perfectly it will only annoy people.
So tldr:
Don't do anything most yuri anime does.
>>2085099
/thread
A good yuri couple, in my eyes, are a pairing who continue their relationship as if they were still friends. Sure, it is rewarding to know they became a couple, yet that shouldn't define who they are nor the story.
I'd like to add: for your couple have their relationship from friends to lovers develop intrinsically, have the infatuatee come to love her crush organically, so when she confess, it is reasonable as to her reasoning, i.e., make x girl not good academically and receive average grades, then y girl offer to aid her in honing her intellect or make x girl forgetful and on her way to school she lost her house keys, and yet again, y girl return to her and offer to aid her in finding her keys by retracing her steps.
The point is, lighthearted interactions and encounters like that are good for the story, then if you want to add drama have x girl go to school and when she enter the classroom a love-umbrella is drawn on the board with the classmates mocking her getting close to her new friend, make a chapter or two where she goes through an existential crisis and aftet she over come it, confront her crush. The drama should flow naturally with the story, don't add anything unnecessary.
So, when x girl confess to y, she can say "I love your humility and your kindness, I began to love you on that day, I don't care what others have to say, all I care for is your opinion of me!"
>>2087393
I don't mind men in yuri stories.
What I resent is, when the mangaka use men for either,
>the female protagonist only dated and had sex with men to prove she weren't a lesbian
>the female protagonist is bisexual and the boyfriend hurt her so she decide all men are scum and become a full-fledge lesbian
If there should exist men in the story, then they should serve as a voice-of-reason type or supportive role. Have the female protagonist have an older brother who is understanding and always there for her regardless of the situation or a male mentor she admire who she can turn to when the odds aren't in her fortune. Adding in a male for the drama is sometimes intolerable to read when they are used for third-option love interest or anything out of left field where you think "Where did this development come from!?"
In Octave, the twin-brother served as that type, and I completely loved him for that. Octave did good at portraying different aspects of that, the twin-brother were generally good throughout the story and the mangaka did show that some aren't good without villainifying them.
>>2087487
I totally get that, I was mostly throwing it out there as a loose example of why you can't please everyone. I love mophead and the whole crew in their story.
>>2087607
there is still a strong sect of people who vehemently detest anything with a weiner in their yuri, even on this board. Personally I am tired of constant evil men in stories as well.
I know Western /u/ has roots in oldschool lesbian content which comes from a place heavily inundated with man-hate sentiment. and the tropes from that are heavily worn out.
I'm not sure where the divide came from in jap /u/, maybe a combination of creators that hate dudes and the habit porn has of removing men.
I have been happy with the increase of /u/ content and the fact that its led to more creative diversity.
>>2087598
>continue their relationship as if they were still friends
That's not how relationships work.
I originally had this written as a novel, but it could easily work as an anime.
>Working class girl (A) gets into very prestigious school on an athletic scholarship
>Gets partnered with a shy middle-class girl girl who is in on a different scholarship (B) and her athletic best friend (C)
>Forms a close friendship with B and friendly rivalry with C
>Meets her swimming coach (D) and instantly develops a crush
>D develops a small crush for A as well, but is still reeling from her relationship with her ex-girlfriend (E)
>B is crushing on A too but A doesn't notice.
>C does notice and feels jealous that B doesn't share C's feelings
>A and D eventually get together in a secret sexual relationship
>B finds out is heartbroken but says she is happy for A
>Things go well for a while
>E comes back one night and sleeps with D
>C sees them together and tells A
>A is now heartbroken
>B moves in and tries to take A
>C is heartbroken
>A rejects B, confronts D
>D explains and says she chooses A over E
>E accepts this and leaves
>C confesses to B
>B accepts C, sleeps with her
>A and D get back together and continue their secret relationship
>>2087631
>Personally I am tired of constant evil men in stories as well.
I can hardly think of a yuri story that even has this. There's more with completely random, even faceless boyfriends shoehorned in at the last minute, and even that is rare.
The few that do have a random evil d00d usually try to have us have sympathy for the evil guys as just poor misunderstood victims who couldn't help what they did. See Shit-surakuen, which ended with the girls actually apologizing to the people that beat them.
>>2087631
I'd kind of like to see a brother character that the MC can come out to and ask for advice.
>>2087723
What about Sasameki Koto?
>>2087726
Kek
I posted in the wrong fucking thread. I'll check out your suggestion though.
>>2087731
It doesn't seem like your post was out of place... but Sasameki Koto is a good read regardless and has a brother character I like.
Well that was unexpected. I knew I'd trigger someone, but for legitimate discussion to be outright deleted on 4chan is pretty shameful for the moderation. I won't bother to individually address the posts that took my advice to be personal whining, other than to recommend genuine conversation over sanctimonious anger and ego-boosting assumptions. I'll repeat my argument: To write relationships, you have to write people, and to do so you have to understand the most basic level of their natures. For the sake of delicate moods, I will present this merely as characterization THEORY, not all-encompassing fact.
Men IN GENERAL are 'dreamers.' They have a strong creative energy embedded in their personalities that gives life to big and frequently good ideas, but just as often they do not have the mental organization and burning passion to achieve them alone. They either band together with like-minded individuals to help formulate an A to B plan, or they struggle alone. OR they are closer to the center of the spectrum, and experience less trouble clarifying each step of the path to their dream.
For visualization, I'll define the spectrum as blue on the left for masculinity and red on the right for femininity. We'll ignore orange and yellow because I hate them and just say green is the absolute center, representing the characteristics an 'ideal personality' would take from each side to achieve the perfect balance.
Pertinently, women IN GENERAL are of the 'logical' type, meaning they work well with concrete reality and generating a plan to accomplish their goals. It's the reason for the archetypal relationship of the aimless young man and his settled, career focused female cousins and sisters (assuming equal opportunity [college/regional job market/family connections]). Anyone that has ever told you that women are illogical has been frustrated by, or is, a stupid woman, a mid-spectrum masculine woman, or a liar.
What does this mean for the supposed 'creative spirit' present on the left side, visualized by both endless blue skies, and endless blue seas? Controversially, it could mean the right side doesn't possess a lick of it, but I'll be fair to my diagram and conclude that it's just less prominent across the majority. Women write crime procedurals and cookbooks, men write absurd and impossible to follow science fiction fantasy worlds. That's the best way I can exemplify their differences, when the majority fall to the far ends of the spectrum.
So you want to write about two women in love. Great! Hopefully the story's ambitions exceed a message about love being nice, but you're past the "I want to write a book about something and get real famous" stage. You want to say something, to have your voice heard through your plot and characters. Answer this question: "How do my characters and their plights reveal to the audience the way I perceive the world and what I want them to know?" Don't worry, you don't have to respond to yourself immediately. Go to the diagram I've put in your head and pick two points a reasonable distance from each other. Now answer the first half of the question.
If you picked a spot on the blue side, is that character imaginative to the point that they're a man seeing themselves as a woman? Are they an outrageous free-spirited tomboy that ignores all thought of their future? If it's traditional and on the red side, how far into the red? Are they the mastermind in home and work, but the value and creation of art eludes them? Are they merely decent at both, a sort of lazy princess, revealing the layer above our current spectrum, which is upbringing/environment and learned ability? Most importantly, have you picked two points you could convincingly pair romantically, and points that generate characters that reveal your messages. Can you get the transgender and the mastermind to work, or the tomboy and the princess (I could with the latter, shit writes itself, though a bit Hallmarky)? What do they teach each other about life, given their positions on the spectrum, and by those lessons, what does the audience learn that you want them to? Perhaps the lesson is that you can become more than you were meant to be, or that those without strong passions aren't necessarily less human or worthy of love.
Again, this is my character theory, and there's tons of them out there to chew on. Think it over, try not to freak out this time, because I think it can help you. If this was TLDR, don't write a book.
>>2087732
Brother was my third favorite character in Sasaekmi Koto. The guy was so nice, supporting of his sisters homosexuality, going as far to leave his girlfriend, pass up buisness oppurtunites for her.
Go was bro tier.
>>2087809
I agree, a very nice character. I like it because of their family dynamic, wherein they choose family over other pursuits despite their difficult situation.
>>2086805
> 'yuri for guys'
Literally never seen this said on /u/. I do think yuri without angst sucks though.
>>2087807
> men write absurd and impossible to follow science fiction fantasy worlds.
And also almost every important book of any kind ever written...
>Pertinently, women IN GENERAL are of the 'logical' type,
Name an important mathematical work by a woman, or an important philosophical work not related to feminism.
>It's the reason for the archetypal relationship of the aimless young man and his settled, career focused female cousins and sisters (assuming equal opportunity [college/regional job market/family connections]). Anyone that has ever told you that women are illogical has been frustrated by, or is, a stupid woman, a mid-spectrum masculine woman, or a liar.
Oh, I see, your view of gender differences comes from American sitcoms.
This is stupid thing to talk about anyway. What does this have to do with writing yuri? /lgbt/ and tumblr have been leaking way too much lately.
What the hell are people saying?! There's plenty of good male Yuri writers.
>>2087859
>And also almost every important book of any kind ever written...
>Name an important mathematical work by a woman, or an important philosophical work not related to feminism.
Please take this bait wherever it belong that isn't here. As for your challenge, I'll show you a woman who all of that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_the_Alchemist
>>2087861
>bait
The truth is bait? Make stupid posts, get stupid answers.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_the_Alchemist
Apparently some kind of semi-mythical alchemist? Why not Marie Curie if you wanted to change the topic to chemistry? Not a mathematician or philosopher, but in any case, of course you can find a FEW of those, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule.
>>2087860
name 5
>>2087875
武川慎 (道割草物語, manga)
J. Sheridan LeFanu (Carmilla, novel)
Samuel Taylor Coleridge (Christabel, poem)
EOTWY00xx00 (Wayfaring Stranger, fanfic)
Oliver Parker (Imagine Me and You, film, direction and screenplay)
(not him btw)
>>2087806
>>2087807
>>2087808
see now, this is more reasonable since you're positioning your point of view as a theory instead of a fact.
Generally, yes, men and women are different and behave in different ways. I mean, I study demographic porn viewing habits, there is a clear difference.
But here's my theory, a writer, whether they are a guy or a girl, whether they read a lot or they don't, whether they care about being a good writer or just want to have fun, are inevitably going to write from their own personal beliefs, philosophy, formulated from what they've seen. That you can't really get rid of.
>Deep message in a work
is that always necessary? There's lots of works that have no "deep message" while kids are often told to read the high school classics that have deep messages up the wazoo, but if you're a beginning writer, my personal advice is, start small, start simple, write what you want to see, and keep writing because you'll figure out shit more and get better over time. But you have to write now, get started already.
>>2087942
> kids are often told to read the high school classics that have deep messages up the wazoo,
Name a single book read in modern public schools that is ACTUALLY a classic, apart from Shakespeare.
>>2087986
Girlfriends by Morinaga Milk
>>2087986
Well, according to my school, we read Pride and Prejudice, Wide Sea Sargasso, Tale of Two Cities, The Great Gatsby, Where the Red Fern Grows, list goes on.
There's a lot of other classic lit that wasn't covered by my school like Kurt Vonnegut's stuff.
>>2087994
>There's a lot of other classic lit that wasn't covered by my school like Kurt Vonnegut's stuff.
I almost replied but you were a little too obvious here.
>>2087322
(You), I like you
>>2088013
stop
>>2087806
>Men IN GENERAL are 'dreamers.'
>Pertinently, women IN GENERAL are of the 'logical' type,
lol
>>2087806
>>2087859
>>2088039
from a sociological perspective, there is truth to men as dreamers and women as logical, at least in how they view relationships. whether or not this is from years of norms or purely genetic isn't really important if we're just talking about how that affects writing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_wheel_theory_of_love
being aware of real life trends can allow you to intentionally follow or subvert them. why would this not belong in a discussion about creating /u/ works?
>>2087808
anon has a good point here, chemistry between characters is not always something that comes readily. examining what archetypes work well together, and playing with those archetypes to create original feeling characters is important. can't write a romance plot worth a damn if the characters are boring together, but at the same time, as this thread proves, what constitutes a compelling relationship varies wildly from person to person.
>>2087942
agree with these points, since usually actually finishing anything at all is a challenge. but kicking around ideas about how to "elevate" one's writing is fun.
>>2087809
the world needs more brotps in general.
>>2088074
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_wheel_theory_of_love
Are you seriously trying to claim that this random hack's theory is "truth"?
My god, can you please take your tears about women back to /r9k/? This is /u/, not a forum where we're trying to outretard tumblr.
Which you're currently managing to do. Good work.
>>2088078
>>2088074
>Eros, the erotic love, is red
>Ludus, the fun love, is blue
>Storge, the friendship love, is yellow
>Mania, the possessive love, is violet
>Pragma, the practical love, is green
>Agape, the religious love, is orange
Let's combine all those into love so pure it shines white! Let's write a story about the incestuous love between a goddess and her mortal sister living together in a dorm room out of practicality, constantly playing silly pranks on one another that lead to wild, passionate nights of wanton sex!
>>2088078
love and relationships are hard to quantify and classify. the whole colors of love thing really is just one psych creating classifications. research using these classifications supports anon's claim regarding men and women, but only in the context of relationships.
other research has come to the same conclusion, where women tend to be more pragmatic about love. but recent research suggests that the differences are becoming less prominent.
>>2088144
sounds like a plan.
>>2088144
The question is, why hasn't someone done this already?
>>2088017
Nope
>>2087289
>people responded to this as if I made the original comment
Genuine kek.
>>2088130
desu if there are any tears in this thread they are mostly about men. I feel like some of the lesbians on /u/ have become politicized and adopted a dumb tumblr mentality. They should realize that they are in fact a minority on this board and go to tumblr for art and not ideology.
