Who is the person who said Empire is absolutely without a doubt better then return. Was it Kevin Smith, did everyone after seeing Clerks just automatically agree with Dante?
I'm dead serious btw I think return is the best star wars movie, the Vader Luke battle had so much character development that I think it's disregarded by most. Luke turns to the dark side for a brief moment and Vader turns to the light. I think it's fucking awesome
>>67940503
Yeah but Endor though
>>67940561
so what
All i care about is what happens between sheev anakin and luke
>but I get where you're coming from
>>67940503
>climax of empire
>all the rebels are betrayed
>as far as anyone knows, Han is pretty much dead
>all of this is a trap to get luke
>yoda tries to tell luke but he runs off toally unprepared to fight vader
>the whole fight luke is a mix of super pissed and scared shitless
>his friends barely escape
>bombshell revelation that Vader is his dad
>luke tries to kill himself, only to be saved by leia and to barely escape the empire
see these are what we call dramatic stakes
in return of the jedi's climax the stakes are
will the rebels on endor survive and lower the shields?
will lando make it out of the death star assault alive?
will luke survive confronting both his father and he emperor?
the answer to all these questions is yes
no one loses anything, the only sacrifice is by vader, but our heroes don't have to pay any kind of price for their hard fought victory. the entire conflict is stiff and lifeless except for the father-son-redemption confrontation with vader, because it involves two characters in conflict. all the other plots just involve the heroes doing stuff and making faces about it until they win
>>67940800
thanks dante
>>67940635
>hurr durr I am disregard an entire section of a movie so I can call it the best
>>67940503
I rewatched it recently. It was way better than I remember.
>>67940635
>so what
That's the problem anon, you can't make that argument against ESB. It's all good.
ROTJ is only good when Luke, Vader, and sheev meet.
>>67940856
>hurr durr I don't read green text
>>67940878
>It's all good.
the middle of the movie is a slog though
>>67940503
dude, everyone loves the Luke/Vader/Sheev stuff, most would even say that those scenes are the high point of the entire trilogy
it's just that most of the rest of the movie is a fucking slog. Jabba's Palace goes on for too long, Han and Leia have no real character development or reason for being involved, the stuff on endor's surface is boring as fuck and the ewoks were made solely to sell toys to kids, etc
>>67940929
Cloud City?
if They would've used Kashyk like They originally intended to and have badass wookie warriors instead of TY beanie babies, than the downfall of the Empire would've made more sense even though all that died was Sheev and they control massive worlds with an army beyond bigger than the rebellion they still lose i dont fucking get it lol also luke flips his switch over his sister being brought up? I wouldve liked it if it was a better trigger than that
>>67940965
dagobah
>>67941031
>not liking dagobah stuff
dude, Yoda pulling that X-Wing out of the swamp is one of the high points of the trilogy, fuck you, the dark side cave is pretty swell too and sets up Luke's temptation in RotJ. Overall the dagobah stuff teaches us so much about the Force and is memorable as hell
I agree completely OP. Episode 6 will always be my favorite
>>67940962
this
The Luker/Vader/Sheev stuff is so good that it surpasses everything in the trilogy, making Return my fav. I didn't say I didn't like Empire I fucking love Empire, Return was just always my favorite.
People that say episode 3 is better than Jedi should be launched into the sun
>Who is the person who said Empire is absolutely without a doubt better then return."
Everyone. Return only has one good scene. Anyone who tries to rank Return over Empire only lists the throne room scene as their argument.
>>67941236
I know everyone here loves sheev andI know the story of Sheev's rise to power is good, but it's not well told and the rest of the prequels are garbage
>>67940503
There's a lot of cool stuff in ROTJ, but it's a pretty poorly crafted story. The entire opening sequence on Jabba's palace feels like its own movie, Han Solo is completely redundant (owing to the fact he was supposed to have been killed off), the Ewoks were silly and their eyes didn't blink. The list goes on...
>>67940503
http://youtu.be/HdD8oYTezjE
The sets could have been combined with more models on the sequels.
>>67940503
Dante has a good point about downer endings though.It may be why the original cut ended with him dying.
Return of the Jedi has the better encounter with Vader, but Empire has a better opening, a better ending, and a better spiritual and psychological flavor to it with Luke's training under Yoda.
>>67941236
make me
