Why was Season 2 of True Detective so shit, bros?
>>72027714
they made him write/direct it in a year, without actually have written anything solid beforehand, so the rough draft became the show.
>>72027714
the pizza man got butthurt from all the criticism of season 1 and decided to listen to the audience and let them influence his work instead of doing what worked in season 1
>>72027714
It wasn't, you're just retarded.
>>72027714
nip gone which exposed pizza as the plagiarizing hack he is
>>72027896
What did he plagiarize from?
>>72027714
Don't know, but it was pretty shit.
>>72027916
A lot of Thomas Ligotti
>>72027896
Fukunaga is actually just a white guy.
No fukunaga, there was practically a different director every episode which resulted in a mess
>>72027714
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARMF1Qr-zDI
>>72027714
Why do you think it was shit? That'd be a good start.
>>72028310
lacks this desu
>>72028428
The case wasn't interesting.
The setting was boring.
The characters were all slight variations of the same damaged detective trope.
That being said, the ending was better than Season 1, even if it was basically, "All men must die...but WE are not men ;)"
>didn't watch it for the memes
you're just watching it wrong, anon
S2 was fantastic, I'm waiting for winter to watch it again.
>>72027714
too real
>>72027785
what?
who criticized season 1 ever?
it just fell under the pressure of living up to season 1. Failed miserably.
>>72028712
Annie wasn't a strong female character though. She was a woman written like a man.
>>72027916
Conspiracy Against the Human Race
>>72027762
/thread
the war was lost
>>72028802
so all three main characters were gay?
>>72028586
>The case wasn't interesting.
True it doesn't grab you with such a visceral feeling like season 1.
>The setting was boring.
I think the primary fuckup for this was the CONSTANT helicopter shots to transition between locations. They could've shown urban decay what a missed opportunity.
>The characters were all slight variations of the same damaged detective trope.
Why is this an inherent bad thing? It was executed quite well.
> even if it was basically, "All men must die...but WE are not men ;)"
That's what you got from it? The ending was "we never solved the case, corruption happens behind open doors all the time, and as long as we can stop it we should. Because we deserve a better world."
The men die because they didn't do the right things. Gay cop couldn't accept he was gay, Velcoro couldn't accept he's a bad father and not fat pussy's father, and Frank could only feel in control as a gangster and he got offed for it.
>>72028778
Feminists were the main critics. They didn't like that the boys did all the detective stuff and the women were either victims, sex objects, or in one case a child killer.
because pizza is a hack that got luckly once
>>72028802
Elaborate.
>>72028996
>The men die because they didn't do the right things. Gay cop couldn't accept he was gay, Velcoro couldn't accept he's a bad father and not fat pussy's father, and Frank could only feel in control as a gangster and he got offed for it.
It wasn't a documentary. The men were written to be idiots rushing towards death, the women were written to be intelligent, capable, and survivors. It felt extremely silly.
>>72029015
When I think of a strong female character, I don't think a female character who displays a bunch of positive traits generally associated with masculinity. I think of a woman who is fully capable and impressive in ways that exceptional women actually are.
Take away the sexual assault element from her character, and explain how her character would be any different if it was a man in her role.
Story was shit.
Great acting from all thought.
>>72029040
>The men were written to be idiots rushing towards death
What? Gay cop's operator status ensured the raid's success in episode 4. Velcoro opting to join Frank's outfit after episode 4 showed he is capable of adapting and surviving. Frank's entire arc is about adapting and surviving. Antigone is written to be intelligent, and capable? She is terrified out of her wits in the episode 4 shootout when she has to use her knife. She is terrified out of her wits when she actually USES it at the orgy. She ends up saving a woman who didn't want to be saved in the first place at the orgy, just like her sister in episode 1.
They die because of the aforementioned reasons. Antigone lives because she learns to accept that there are good men out there like Velcoro. Jordan is the only woman explicitly written to be intelligent, and what was wrong with that?
>>72029101
> I don't think a female character who displays a bunch of positive traits generally associated with masculinity
Like?
>Take away the sexual assault element from her character, and explain how her character would be any different if it was a man in her role.
But that's stupid. "Take away the tortured closet homosexuality of gay cop and then explain how her character would be any different if it was a woman in her role."
>>72029214
Yes, they were all very competent until the end of the show, at which point they became idiots because all the men needed to die. What aren't you getting here?
Stronk womyn are the kiss of death for a show. Better off having the feminists complain about all boy detectives. Even the feminists would rather watch Rust and Woody.
>>72029214
>But that's stupid. "Take away the tortured closet homosexuality of gay cop and then explain how her character would be any different if it was a woman in her role."
It would be different because a female ex-special forces operative who also was an elite member of a Blackwater-esque private security group is fucking laughable. But you're right when you point out that his entire character is basically tied into him being gay, having a shitty mother, and being a good shot. Not much depth there.
time is a flat circle, season 1 will be made again and again and again
I actually enjoyed s2 a little more than season 1. Although I loved both, sad to hear we won't be getting a season 3
>>72029249
You seem to be implying that it was out of nowhere for these characters to die. The whole show builds up to it, with Velcoro's own dream father telling him he's going to be shot to pieces underneath gigantic trees. The WHOLE show he is unable to accept the POSSIBILITY that he isn't fat pussy's father, and that he's actually trying to be good. We see in his first interaction with fat pussy that he's a fucking terrible father. This is common throughout the show; Velcoro cannot accept that he isn't a good father or fat pussy's father and he is punished for that. That's it. No "men are idiots" conspiracy.
Gay cop is fucking tortured in every sense of the word. Physical pain comes to him at the thought of being a gay. He takes viagra or whatever to satisfy his sexy latina girl, and just when he was thinking about leaving her she tells him he's pregnant and he JUMPS on it. Denying who he really is. His denial allows him to get blackmailed and die.
Frank was losing his masculinity being a straight man. The whole show is him getting back his masculinity via becoming a gangster again. We should not be looking up to gangsters, so he promptly gets killed. All of this was built up to proper. Why does this bother you at all?
>>72029299
>It would be different because a female ex-special forces operative who also was an elite member of a Blackwater-esque private security group is fucking laughable.
Right.
>But you're right when you point out that his entire character is basically tied into him being gay, having a shitty mother, and being a good shot. Not much depth there.
Yeah the show would've been better off without him as much as good as his performance was.
You still didn't answer my "Like?"
>>72029356
>we won't be getting a season 3
WHAT? Absolute shit-tier cringebox shows get renewed for fuckloads of seasons and when someone manages to make something watchable for the television it gets cancelled after 2 seasons because S2 was slightly worse than S1? That is pure fucking bs
Pizza refused to use a writing staff and tried writing eight episodes worth of story by himself in less than a year and it shows. The whole thing feels like a messy first draft.
because in the first season, the showrunner had one flamboyant character and very stellar perfomance (rust) and very specific terrorish southern gothic tone, and these helped a lot. the scope was limited. season 2 tries to be some james ellroy/raymond chandler/thomas pynchon nobody-knows-what-is-going-on-because-it-is-all-so-complicated-and-intertwined-and-maybe-you-are-not-even-supposed-to-know-what-is-going-on political intrigue but it's not really interesting, the schemes and machinations have no charm, and every character is so forced it makes you retroactively question rust too
>>72028031
>>72028807
he didn't plagiarize anything you retards, Ligotti didn't invent antinatalist philosophy.
>>72029251
there was nothing feminist about the show, the women were all fucked up and there were three male anti-heros, the end was pure tragedy and I preferred it to the saccharine s1 redemption, get fucked (you) cucked to death mra doorknob
>>72029391
>You still didn't answer my "Like?"
Emily Blunt in Sicario. She's basically the same character done right.
>Why does this bother you at all?
Because every protagonist man is written to have this obvious character flaw that leads to his death, while the women overcome their flaws and live in the end. It just feels like pandering. The entire Annie character felt that way. It felt like the writer/director/whoever took the people complaining about no strong females characters to heart, and wrote a season that basically feels like appeasement rather than a true vision. This also plays into the lack of nudity and sex in the season, which makes it feel decidedly less noir than the first season.
>>72029561
>the women were all fucked up
lol, how so?
Rachel McAdams completely overcomes all the silly men who doubt her prowess as a strong female detective and rises above her tragic sexual abuse, which as we know is the worst thing that can possibly happen to anyone.
Frank's wife got away with everything despite being a business partner to his criminal empire. She was the brains of the operation and responsible for boosting Frank's self-confidence because without a strong woman behind him he is a weak white man.
>>72027762
the thing is that's the exact amount of time everybody fucking else gets to write a show. plus, TD has only 8 eps per season and he did not direct anything. it doesn't take a genius to get the job done. it's not like it's his fucking profession, after all. he struck gold with the first season. he showed his, ahem, true colors with the second. speaking from someone who has also read his novel, don't expect him to strike gold again.
>>72029669
I've yet to see Sicario. Hear nothing but good things.
>Because every protagonist man is written to have this obvious character flaw that leads to his death, while the women overcome their flaws and live in the end
What flaws did Jordan have? She was a good, and loyal wife. I really liked her character because you don't see many good, and loyal wives on TV anymore. I kept expecting she would leave him or give him an ultimatum like "stop the killing or I go," but she never did. She's a loyal woman, loved it.
> It just feels like pandering. The entire Annie character felt that way
I'm sorry we've been civil so far but I gotta call you a moron for this. She is built up to have this strong independent woman exterior, but then she freaks the fuck out when she runs out of ammo and has to use her knife and she freaks out AGAIN when she DOES use her knife. Both her sister and the woman she saves from the orgy call her out on her hero complex, telling her to just let them be they're not tortured about their sexuality like she is. Then Antigone, in one of the most vulnerable moments on television, holds Velcoro's hand, tells him he's not a bad man, and they mutually fuck. It's the tearing down of who she is built up to be. Did all of this fly over your head? Did you not realize she opted to give birth to Velcoro's child?
>>72029759
>Rachel McAdams completely overcomes all the silly men who doubt her prowess as a strong female detective
And is promptly shot down by other women she was trying to save.
>and rises above her tragic sexual abuse, which as we know is the worst thing that can possibly happen to anyone.
What are you saying here?
>She was the brains of the operation
No she absolutely was not. Did you even watch the show?
>and responsible for boosting Frank's self-confidence because without a strong woman behind him he is a weak white man.
You really didn't watch the show, that or you are the moron I am now convinced you are.
>>72029910
>>72029759
Frank gets his OWN self-confidence back via his OWN means. Jordan didn't strangle and shoot Blake, Jordan didn't burn down Osip's place, Jordan didn't murder Osip. Jordan didn't calm Velcoro down in his own kitchen, etfuckingcetera.
>>72029910
>I've yet to see Sicario. Hear nothing but good things.
Then stop talking about this awful season and go download it, what the fuck is wrong with you.
>>72028031
he had a single character inspired by some of his writing. it was an enjoyable aspect of the show, but not what carried the entirity of it - without the counterpart of marty, rust falls apart as an enjoyable character
it wasn't you pleb
>>72029854
yeah Pizza is a creative guy with no work ethic. He wrote season 1 out of autistic obsession. When it came time to be a big boy and write because it's your job, he couldn't even pull on his big boy pants.
>>72027714
no fukunaga, and half of the appeal of the show was the direction. it set the fantastic creepy tone and atmosphere. also without the occult overtones it felt more generic to me. the writing was weaker, too, regardless of rusts fedora speeches. also woody and mccoamshshay were both better actors and had better chemistry than thr season 2 leads
>>72027916
he lifted direct lines from some Lovecraft contemporaries as well
>>72029910
>What flaws did Jordan have? She was a good, and loyal wife.
She was half-in, half-out. She had doubts about the more violent aspects of the criminal empire. Also she wasn't very fertile, which makes her a failure as a woman.
>She is built up to have this strong independent woman exterior, but then she freaks the fuck out when she runs out of ammo and has to use her knife and she freaks out AGAIN when she DOES use her knife.
...and? Are you implying the other characters wouldn't be concerned if they ran out of ammunition during a fight? And her ginsu knife bullshit was cringeworthy.
>You really didn't watch the show, that or you are the moron I am now convinced you are.
Alright? Am I supposed to care what you think, buddy. I'm amused that you're so invested in this shitty show that you've descending into the sort of discourse in a YouTube comment section. Insult me all you want, if it makes you feel better about wasting your time with the poorly-written dreck.
But seriously, watch Sicario.
>>72028802
that was the point though. her entire character was attempting to self consciously prove her competence and power to men by acting ultra masculine. but on the inside she was a weak scared girl with daddy issues. dumb character, but being manly was the point.
>>72030189
She wasn't weak or scared. If she had been, her character might have actually be interesting.
>>72027714
Pizza had absolutely no idea what he was doing. He spent years crafting Season 1 and making it coherent as 8 hours of media, then got a single director to bring his vision to the screen. Season 2 he lost Fukunaga and was told to write scripts for a show that would be like Season 1 but different setting and different characters. Season 1 half of the appeal and cohesion was the combination of swamp aesthetic in Louisiana, where Pizza grew up and also which he researched heavily, with scary dark detective stuff. The other half of the appeal was the buddy cop dynamic of Rust and Marty. For season 2 what do you do. If you make it another Louisiana show they say it's too similar. If it's buddy detectives again they say it's too similar. If you include dark existential themes they probably say it's too similar. So Pizza looks at this long list of things he can't do and he just shits himself. Just oozes long runny streams of hot brown liquid shit all over the writer's room. Then he probably just blindly sticks a dart into a map of the US and decides to set it in California. He makes it 3 detectives instead of 2, and decides one is a woman and one is a gay because probably the bitch friendzoning him said Season 1 was too masculine. Then he realizes he can't write dialogue that isn't constant philosophical navel gazing, so he creates a gangster character for that because if a detective was talking like Rust it would be too similar. Then he literally copy pastes the actual plotting of Season 1 and calls it good.
>>72029669
>Emily Blunt in Sicario. She's basically the same character done righ
Not really. Emily blunts character is presented as respected, capable and confident. and showing her overwhelmed in wolf land drives home how fucking horrific it is that even a tough cop can't handle it. true detective girl is a self conscious degenerate who thinks she needs to overcompensae with masculinity to be taken seriously by her peers.
>>72030153
>She had doubts about the more violent aspects of the criminal empire
And she stuck by him anyway. A good, loyal woman.
>Also she wasn't very fertile, which makes her a failure as a woman.
A flaw that she never overcomes. Contrary to your testimony.
>...and? Are you implying the other characters wouldn't be concerned if they ran out of ammunition during a fight?
Concern is one thing. Red-faced and on the verge of tears is another.
>And her ginsu knife bullshit was cringeworthy.
Yes. That's why it is torn down like the facade it is. Love how you didn't respond to anything else in my post baby. Failing to discourse sounds like a very womanly thing to do.
>Alright? Am I supposed to care what you think, buddy. I'm amused that you're so invested in this shitty show that you've descending into the sort of discourse in a YouTube comment section. Insult me all you want, if it makes you feel better about wasting your time with the poorly-written dreck.
Hey man I call it like I see it. You and everyone else who calls the show pandering to feminists are idiots who can't seem to keep their attention span up for more than 58 minutes.
>Actor 1: something nonsensical
>Actor 2: something even more nonsensical
>>72030153
>and? Are you implying the other characters wouldn't be concerned if they ran out of ammunition during a fight? And her ginsu knife bullshit was cringeworthy.
the point of thst shot is to show that her tough exterior is a faquade and that's she's actually very vulnerable and not as competent as she wants to believe she is. she clutches her knife like a scared child to convey this as well. you're dumb.
>>72030328
Respected? The whole point of the movieis that she is there solely because the CIA need a member of law enforcement there to make their shit legally defensible. They didn't tell her anything until she threatened to bail, and they didn't even want her to participate.
>>72030219
then you missed the point of the shot and the point of the character entirely. you're a fucking moron. the knife shit, she butchness, were all meant to shield her from her self consciousness and vulnerability. did you really even watch the show? or are you so obsessed with your sjw paranoia that you couldn't understand simple characterization?
>>72030422
thats the twist. but the movie presents her as extremely capable, and when she's broken down in tears at the end it's to show the overwhelming intensity of it. it's the point of the land of wolves speech, normal law enforcement isn't equipped to handle it. you need monsters blah blah. if Emily blunt had been completely inept, her becoming scared and overwhelmed would mean nothing
>>72030404
You're missing out on a lot of her strengths if you just focus on the physical. She was probably the toughest of all the detectives but easily the least capable.
I liked season 2 even if it was a little clumsy.
>>72030534
her having an emotional breakdown is not focusing on the physical. it's purely psychological. what are you talking about?
>>72028996
>Velcoro couldn't accept he's a bad father and not fat pussy's father,
He was his father. Did you even watch the shit you're yammering on and on about?
>>72030606
Indeed, 99% certainty. That was a tragic fucking moment, especially after the "message not uploaded" part. The thing is the entire show points to the fact that he isn't, beforehand. It was a nice twist that really hammered home how tragic it all is. Not telling me anything I don't know, friend.
>>72030354
>Yes. That's why it is torn down like the facade it is. Love how you didn't respond to anything else in my post baby. Failing to discourse sounds like a very womanly thing to do.
>Hey man I call it like I see it. You and everyone else who calls the show pandering to feminists are idiots who can't seem to keep their attention span up for more than 58 minutes.
lol
Do you think this strengthens your argument somehow?
Like I said, if you're this emotionally-invested in your poorly-written show, then I can't blame you for being upset that audiences and critics didn't respond in the same way. If you're actually interested in knowing why though, you should probably act a little more like an adult when discussing it though.
It's not only "anti-feminists" who hated the season. It was panned by everyone. Because it was an objectively shit follow-up to a very good first season.
>Concern is one thing. Red-faced and on the verge of tears is another.
The whole sexual abuse aspect of her character is part of the feminist pandering I find so detestable about her character. It doesn't feel interesting, it doesn't feel new, it doesn't endear the character to me. I don't like rape as a means of character development or backstory, it's a lazy crutch for untalented scriptwriters.
If you don't think the character of Annie is a direct result of feminist complaints about the first season, then you can't be helped. You didn't even pay attention to the reception of the show you're so interested in defending.
>>72030534
Except her tough exterior isn't a facade, because she kills the guy. A much larger man by the way, who realistically should have been able to disarm her and murder her without blinking. See again, Sicario; where the woman isn't able to effortlessly defeat men twice her size because she owns anime knife-fighting DVDs. Her tough exterior is such a "facade" that she's the one character in the end who manages to survive every violent confrontation she's involved in?
I may be dumb, but I'm not dumb enough to swallow the shit that is this series.
>>72029356
Ani A CUTE
>>72030527
Now explain how Annie isn't extremely capable.
>>72029425
>slightly worse
>>72030797
You mean Rachael Mcphatass?
>>72030923
It wasn't as good but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as the haters made it out to be.
now that the dust has settled can we all agree that it wasn't that bad
>>72031091
It was a godawful mess, and it's pretty telling that a fan of this regurgitating, cliche-ridden garbage would also be the type of dimwit to spout the term "hater" unironically.
>>72031123
Doesn't it get tiring being contrarian all the time? If people had loved the season, you would be saying it's the worst shit on HBO since Arliss.
>It was a godawful mess, and it's pretty telling that a fan of this regurgitating, cliche-ridden garbage would also be the type of dimwit to spout the term "hater" unironically.
>>72029521
>because in the first season, the showrunner had one flamboyant character and very stellar perfomance (rust) and very specific terrorish southern gothic tone, and these helped a lot. the scope was limited. season 2 tries to be some james ellroy/raymond chandler/thomas pynchon nobody-knows-what-is-going-on-because-it-is-all-so-complicated-and-intertwined-and-maybe-you-are-not-even-supposed-to-know-what-is-going-on political intrigue but it's not really interesting, the schemes and machinations have no charm, and every character is so forced it makes you retroactively question rust too
this x1000
>>72031204
Ha, you posted an image of a Arabic man wearing an unfashionable hat! Suddenly this makes your poorly-reasoned defense of an awfully-written show more substantive. Great job!
>>72031091
It was so fucking bad it made me reevaluate the quality of Season 1 in retrospect, and realize that what I had previously given the benefit of the doubt with regards to that season was, in fact, bad writing.
Rachel McAdams
>>72031020
bane posting will never die
>>72030268
>He spent years crafting Season 1 and making it coherent as 8 hours of media
i think we're stretching the truth here. according to Fukunaga, they only had four concrete screenplays finished by the time he began shooting. i'm not sure what the source is that Pizz had years to work on the series. anyone have it? from what i've read, Pizz may have crafted the narrative as a novel first, so he may have had most of the story in his head for a while, but definitely not in screenplay, or even novel, format. possibly as an outline for a novel.
