why isn't Haley's performance as Rorschach more popular?
he was fucking incredible
too edgy
>>71854231
>kill me because muh principles!
I don't get the appeal.
comic rorshack was flat affect
>>71854253
>>71854291
>>71854423
Spotted the 13 year olds.
>>>/b/
>>71854231
literally a /pol/tier character
>>71854470
Seriously though, what did acting like an autist and demanding to be killed accomplish for him? Why didn't he just acknowledge it was better to not reveal what happened so everyone could enjoy world peace for a while?
>>71854528
Because he didn't believe it was right to lie to people about something that huge. And he wasn't going to sacrifice his beliefs just to preserve his life.
>>71854528
You sound like a woman.
>>71854528
movie fucked up in establishing his mindset, as snyder didn't understand his mindset either.
>>71854559
this. dude was basically a moral absolutist, even if those morals were skewed.
>>71854559
That's stupid. He accomplished nothing by goading Dr. Manhattan into killing him.
>>71854571
>I should do pointless and counterproductive things because muh masculinity.
That's also dumb.
>>71854572
>snyder didn't understand his mindset either.
Nor should he understand it since the mindset made no sense.
>>71854528
I thinks he believed the nuclear apocalypse wouldn't have happend and if it would happend then humanity deserved it
He was like batman but he snapped and loose faith in humanity
>>71854806
Nah he showed that if you make peace with a lie you will burie people under it's fundation
He was the first one
Roshard isn't sane the no compromise things is for extremist and idealist
>>71854806
Wow, you really do sound like a woman.
>>71854806
A man approaches you and tells you that if you dont let him fuck you in the ass he'll shoot you.
You're now known as the faggot who is a pussy-boy and got fucked in the ass
Rorschach is known as the man who took the bullet
>>71855043
>caring what others think
Dead people can't bask in their bravery. Survivors can bask in their being alive.
>>71855043
>not concealed carrying 24/7
Your own fault.
>>71855089
Never heard of standing by your principles? The world didn't earn the world peace Veidt arranged for it. It was gotten through deception. The people of earth didn't actually learn anything from the conflict between the Soviet Union and the United States. Rorschach didn't want to live in a world like that; built off the backs of 3 million innocent lives and a gigantic lie.
>>71855089
graveyards are filled with people who did and didn't compromise.
Once you start compromising, you don't stop until eventually you reach a point where you're trying to defend your lifetime of compromise the US clone of a japanese imageboard.
>>71855089
>“They may torture my body, break my bones, even kill me. Then they will have my dead body, but not my obedience.”
In other words I'd rather die fighting than become a slave to a tyrant
But have fun being a slave
>>71855147
To be fair, in snyder's watchmen everyone died anyway. Because both sides launched every nuke they had because neither side believed manhattan wasn't acting in suppport of the US or the USSR.
>>71855147
>The world didn't earn the world peace Veidt arranged for it. It was gotten through deception.
There is literally nothing wrong with deception.
>>71854231
I think it was hammy.
Like a shit parody of Bale's batman.
>>71855256
t. the decieved
>>71855220
Huh? No nukes were launched in the film.
>>71855256
And here goes the discussion since 1986 about who was right in Watchmen, and if the ends justify the means. I wonder if we'll ever reach a conclusion on it. Probably not but it's fun anyway.
>>71855147
>>71855165
>>71855191
Well I was imagining anon's scenario and basically I'd pretend to go along with it and try to get the drop on the guy. Like while he's cumming, headbutt him in the face (most people close their eyes to cum) and grab the gun.
Saying "Nah just shoot me" is retarded. If you let the guy fuck you for a while you have time to work out a plan to escape, and then you can get revenge later.
You shouldn't assume that by allowing this one transgression, you would become a slave forever. That's a slippery slope fallacy. Duplicity is an option.
>>71854231
Because everything else in the movie was shit. And his voice was too raspy.
>>71855362
I wrote this retardedly but to summarise, you don't have to take the first opportunity to act. It's smarter to bide your time and wait for the first *good* opportunity. Even if that means getting raped for a while.
>>71855285
Dr. Manhattan not only allowed it to happen in the end but also killed Rorschach to keep him from ruining Veidt's plan so that proves Veidt was correct.
>inb4 "nothing ever ends"
>>71854231
The character is a total anti-gay shitlord
There's your reason
>>71855448
But, Ror ending up winning by handing off the info to a tabloid.
He did such because he new he couldn't he couldn't beat fag boy in a fight, even with Owl.
>>71855508
If the tabloid actually matters Dr. Manhattan will foresee it and neutralize it, maybe by killing the people who work at the tabloid. More likely though is that he foresees how it doesn't matter.
>>71855643
I don't think he actually knew about it
He left earth for good when he thought fag boy won at the end.
>>71855285
>no nukes were launched in the film
yes they were. Hence the reason the movie suddenly ends rather than going 10-20 years into the future like the comic.
>>71855256
>There is nothing wrong with deception
Illuminati please stop
>>71855643
Dr. Manhattan left the Milky Way.
>>71855698
What the fuck? What are you talking about?
>>71855285
the discusison has been going since 1986 because everyone who read the comic didn't read the comic in the same instant.
>>71855692
>I don't think he actually knew about it
He had to know about it. He's omniscient as long as Veidt isn't blocking him and Veidt stopped blocking him. Even if he didn't know about it before he would foresee it after.
>>71855773
comic showed the stable future veidt's alien threat established
movie ended abruptly.
Everyone died.
>>71855773
If he knew after his omniscience came back but didn't care then he wouldn't have killed Rorschach in the first place.
>>71855821
>hes omniscient
No he isn't. Hes got a greater level of awareness than a human being, a level that was steadily increasing as time went on, but he wasn't omniscient.
>>71855878
He's omniscient enough to where Veidt has to block out his omniscience to make his plan work. He at least knows the deterministic answer to how people and things on Earth will play out.
>>71854231
>Great voice.
>Portrayed the character perfectly.
>Studied 'Dirty Boxing' for the scenes because that's what he thought Rorschach would use.
Never saw the new Nightmare on Elm Street so I should probably check that out.
>>71855825
The movie shows Dan and Laurie visiting Laurie's mom just like at the end of the comic you goose.
>>71855856
But he didn't know, that's the thing. Dr. Manhattan only knows the future relative to himself. He's not omniscient.
>>71856001
>the future relative to himself
What does that even mean? Everyone is related to everything else in the universe. Knowing the future relative to yourself would be the same as knowing the future for everything else.
>>71856031
I suppose my wording was poor, but the film and comic show he is not omniscient: he can only see the future of himself, where he goes, and his actions.
>>71856067
>he can only see the future of himself, where he goes, and his actions
He could also see things like what Veidt is planning, which is why Veidt had to block his foresight and why the first thing Veidt asks him after he's no longer being blocked is whether his plan worked.
Any of Haley's performances are fucking incredible. Even in Shutter Island where he was only on screen for like 20 seconds. He's the only thing that stuck with me from that movie. Dude's absolutely haunting.
>>71855165
Isn't that called the "Boiling Frog" maxim/thought/whatever is it.
>>71856127
>He could also see things like what Veidt is planning
Because Manhattan would've been there. Hence the tachyon satellites.
>why the first thing Veidt asks him after he's no longer being blocked is whether his plan worked.
I don't remember this scene, comic or film? In the comic Veidt asks Dr. Manhattan if it all worked out in the end and the latter gives a cryptic answer.
>>71856176
>In the comic Veidt asks Dr. Manhattan if it all worked out in the end
How is that different from saying "whether his plan worked?" You just said the same thing I said using different words.
>>71856221
Yes but you seem to imply that Veidt asks Dr. Manhattan this question because Manhattan can see the future of the earth. He can't, as he leaves the galaxy.
>>71856302
It's the same question either way and the same point either way. Dr. Manhattan doesn't answer "I don't know." He knows.
>>71856449
>Dr. Manhattan doesn't answer "I don't know." He knows.
He doesn't know though. The comic gives us hints of course which strongly suggest to it won't work out, but there's no way Manhattan could know. He leaves.
>>71855448
>Dr. Manhattan not only allowed it to happen
He was blinded as to what was happening in that moment by physics particle bullshit. He had no idea what Ozymiandas was pulling and after the fact realised it was better to settle than push back.
>>71855508
In the book his journal is overlooked by the intern, so I think it's implied that it doesn't get picked up. I think in the movie the intern picks up the journal.
>>71855943
He only knows his own future. If he leaves the planet and doesn't in his own lifetime witness the journal being found he would have no way of knowing whether or not it would happen.
>its a people misunderstand watchmen episode
>>71856176
>Veidt asks Dr. Manhattan if it all worked out in the end
I think he asks "Did I do the right thing?"
And Dr Manhattan is like, "you did thing". Because he doesn't really process right or wrong.
>>71856613
No, he definitely asks if it worked out in the end because Dr. Manhattan responds with "nothing ever ends."
You know what fucking blows my mind?
The fact that Ozymandias, the smartest man in the world, despite his greatest intellect, still needed to ask if he did the morally correct thing.
Blows my mind. Deep shit, Moore. Deep shit.
>>71856600
Alan Moore misunderstood Watchmen, Dr. Manhattan clearly knows what will happen and therefore the uncertainty about the tabloid doesn't actually exist and Veidt was objectively right.
>>71856648
Just looked it up, he says both.
OZ: I Did the right thing, didn't I? It all worked out in the end.
DR M: "In the End"? Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends.
OZ: Jon? Wait! What do you mean by...
DR M: <teleports away>
Manhattans in the end is in quotes and "ever" is bolded. Ozy's "wait" is bolded.
>>71856658
He still has to deal with the burden of what he has done.
If you have to kill a few people to save thousands, you still have to deal with the feeling of killing those people. I'm sure that will weigh on his mind.
In the movie he doesn't seem as phased, in the comic he is clearly affected by his actions much more.
Snyder unfortunately traded out a lot of emotion for fight scenes.
>>71856515
>>71856580
If he was actually uncertain about what would happen he wouldn't have killed Rorschach. He could've just as easily kept Rorschach alive as a prisoner temporarily while he went about the business of making extra-sure he understood what was going to happen if Rorschach's story got out or not, but he didn't because he already knew what would happen.
Are you guys still discussing who was right and if Veidt was wrong? Why? The comic was designed for you guys not to get a good answer, and were just running around in circular logic.
>>71856832
>He could've just as easily kept Rorschach alive as a prisoner temporarily
In the film Dr. Manhattan clearly does not want to kill Rorschach. In the comic it's less certain, but in either case Rorschach begs Dr. Manhattan to kill him so he obliges.
>but he didn't because he already knew what would happen.
Are you continually ignoring the fact that Dr. Manhattan can only see his own future?
>>71856924
The comic was designed wrong, Dr. Manhattan killing Rorschach makes Veidt correct.
>>71856832
>He could've just as easily kept Rorschach alive as a prisoner temporarily while he went about the business of making extra-sure he understood what was going to happen if Rorschach's story got out or not
But the only way he can see the future is if he physically experiences it himself. That's why he doesn't know what took out New York, he only arrives in the after math and has to deduce what happened rather than just knowing already.
There is no "going about the business of making sure he understood what would happen". He will either experience it in his own future or he will not.
>>71856970
No it doesn't. What are you talking about?
>>71856963
>Are you continually ignoring the fact that Dr. Manhattan can only see his own future?
That doesn't mean anything, you already said he wouldn't know the future of anyone on Earth because he left afterwards. Yet he does know their future when he uses it as the basis for executing Rorschach. So you're wrong.
>>71856970
>Dr. Manhattan killing Rorschach makes Veidt correct.
No it doesn't. Him killing Rorschach occurs after the event and he does it so that humanities sacrifice is not for nothing.
If he could have prevented Veidt he may have acted differently.
>>71857029
>he does it so that humanities sacrifice is not for nothing
Which he would only know to do if he could see the future of what would happen if Rorschach lived or not.
Daily reminder Manhattan still has choices.
He just knows what are the ones he'll choose. Puppet that can see the strings.
>>71857016
>Yet he does know their future when he uses it as the basis for executing Rorschach
No he doesn't.
He knows that if Rorschach goes free it is 100% chance that he reveals the conspiracy. If he kills him it's a non-100% chance that the conspiracy is revealed.
>>71857070
>Which he would only know to do if he could see the future of what would happen if Rorschach lived or not.
No, Rorschach made his intentions very clear.
>>71857016
>That doesn't mean anything, you already said he wouldn't know the future of anyone on Earth because he left afterwards
Yes.
>Yet he does know their future when he uses it as the basis for executing Rorschach. So you're wrong.
He executes Rorschach because he would undo everything that has already been done. Not because he knows the future. I have never ever seen this interpretation of the comic before.
>>71857105
>he would undo everything that has already been done
If he knows that then he knows the future. You're using different words to say the same thing.
>>71857129
>You're using different words to say the same thing.
No. You are saying that Dr Manhattan knows the future even though he likely won't experience it himself, which is NOT what is established in the comic or movie.
The other anon is saying Dr Manhattan knows because of Rorschach's character and what he is saying.
>>71856970
But that's wrong. Veidt wasn't right because he thought he solved everything when all he did was buy time. Something the movies fail to address at the end when Manhattan tells him nothing changes before leaving.
Veidt's utopia is a temporary stopgap at best.
>>71857164
>won't experience it himself
Where do you draw the line between what he experiences and what he doesn't? Every single little piece of spacetime is connected to the entirety of the universe, there's no such thing as him experiencing one thing in it but not something else.
I don't know what OP or the fags responding to this thread are talking about, he was the only thing most people liked about this movie and got him a second wind in his career.
>>71857213
>there's no such thing as him experiencing one thing in it but not something else.
Yes there is because the comic establishes that. Do I have to pull a scan from the comic or something jesus.
Is it just me or does Watchmen's cast feel a lot more "diverse" than most "diversity" attempts in film these days?
>>71857090
No, he could. he just didn't want to because he thought the "natural beauty" of reality was superior to anything he could come up with.
He was a faggot.
>>71857186
>Veidt wasn't right because he thought he solved everything when all he did was buy time.
That doesn't make him not right, it makes him right but to a lesser degree than he wanted.
>>71857213
What his physical body experiences with his human sensory organs. If he is not physically there at that time and place he doesn't experience it.
>>71857213
It's clear the people conversing right now read the comic, which blew the movie away.
Rorschach chose to die because he knew he would be unable to keep the secret for the rest of his life, even though revealing the conspiracy could only make all those deaths meaningless. He knows that the only way he can be certain of his silence is by dying.
Of course, the tragic irony is that he forgot he had already revealed the conspiracy via his journal.
>>71857250
what was diverse about it
>>71857250
why? Because it has ugly people?
>>71857246
>Do I have to pull a scan from the comic
That would be good to see and interpret, yes. It wouldn't necessarily make the idea coherent though, Alan Moore could have misunderstood the implications of his own character's abilities.
>>71855126
>not concealed carrying 24/7
>concealed carrying while drinking
k
>>71857250
I think that's just a side effect of the premise. Realistically, who would become a hero?
We have a pagent mother pushing her kid.
We have a bored rich guy.
We have a business entrepreneur.
We have a propaganda piece
We have a mentally ill guy
We have an actual hero.
>>71854231
fedora the character
>>71857308
>drinking
Alcohol is a shit tier drug, just do benzos if you want to relax.
>>71857250
no youre just an idiot
>>71857297
It's not an ensemble of 5x 6'2" buffed square jawed well adjusted guys.
>>71857302
>What his physical body experiences with his human sensory organs. If he is not physically there at that time and place he doesn't experience it.
>>71857298
>>71857297
Everyone has a unique, in depth personality with solid ideologies. Comedian is an absurdist asshole, Veidt is a utilitarian, Rorschach is you know, Manhattan is the only one with superpowers, Nite Owl is the most normal guy but he still has issues, Silk Spectre is a girl but kinda done well albeit boring?
This an oversimplified way of describing the cast, but you get my point.
>>71857367
>Silk Spectre is a girl but kinda done well albeit boring?
Silk Spectre was forced into this life by her mother and never liked it. For her she has never been in control of her life and never able to take her own steps.
Even when the super heroes go their own way she is kept around to fuck Dr Manhattan and keep him happy.
>>71857335
dont be rude
>>71857294
But that's wrong. He wasn't begging for death. He was saying "we both know what's going to happen. Just get it over with, quit chucklefucking around." He still wanted the truth to come to light.
>>71854231
The only bright spot to an otherwise boring, underwhelming lefty feel good movie.
He could have just lied and said he'd play along, then tell everyone about the aryan dude's base in Antarctica.
>>71854231
I think it's just because that's really the only type of character people know him for. People are always going to praise Ledger for his Joker because he's that gay cowboy who also did an amazing Joker. Rorschach is just how everyone is always going to see Haley
>>71855961
>so I should probably check that out.
