Can someone explain to me where men go when they die?
It's not Valinor, correct?
they just die, anon
>>71829629
Apparently Tolkien wrote in a letter, that human spirits leave Middle-Earth upon death, and it was phrased (surprise surprise) in a very Christian way.So basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZQxH_8raCI
They go beyond Ea, beyond the Halls of Mandos, the Doomsman of Valar.
I think that a lot of fans have basically said that humans, the ones who never chose the Shadow (Morgoth's or Sauron's), would go on to be by Iluvatar's side, to sing with him into creation the next world that comes after Ea, after Dagor Dagorath.
>>71829629
They go to the Halls of Mandos, the Valar (god) of Death. There they sit around and wait for the end of the world, whereupon they will cease to exist. However, some Elves reincarnate (as themselves) and return with wisdom from the Valar for their kin. Also, some elves refuse the Call, and become wraiths. These spirits are extremely evil and incredibly dangerous, in olden times human necromancers would summon them to gain their secrets but this almost always ends with the elven soul (it's "faer") possessing the human and easily crushing his puny mortal faer, becoming an undead abomination.
>>71829732
That sounds like hopeful speculation.
For all we no they just slink off into nothingness and darkness and their "soul" doesn't exist anymore.
>>71829779
>>71829629
>men
Wait I thought you meant Elves. Humans go to Eur, the One, the Creator god. What happens to them then is unknown, but given Tolkien was Catholic, some kind of heaven is probably to be expected. Humans spirits lack the power to refuse the call, but very occasionally they may be cursed to remain as impotent shades, as with the dead Men of Dunharrow.
>>71829779
>the elven soul (it's "faer") possessing the human and easily crushing his puny mortal faer, becoming an undead abomination.
This is the case with the "barrow wights" from the Old Forest, they're the bodies of ancient human kings possessed by body-less elvish spirits.
>>71829779
Fea, fear is the plural.
>>71830038
Technically correct, the best KIND of correct! Have an electromechanical Messiah.
Post your favorite track from the soundtrack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH9ZDFBI1EU
山に埋めてさようなら
と読むんだよ芋と同じで育って増えたら掘りおこそうって事だ、ドワーフは楽しみと言ってただろ
>>71830147
I really like this version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbU0n8E4Hcc
>>71830198
Not fond of that ending.
>>71830315
I'm not familiar with that dragon, but I'm curious.
What franchise/character is that?
>>71830437
Ancalagon, from Silmarillion.
Largest winged dragon that ever existed.
>>71830467
Oh!
It's just that with all the powerlevel nonsense graphs I've see in the past few months, I thought this was semi-literal, and was from some sort of Space-Fantasy story.
Thanks for clarifying.
>>71830551
Nah, it's just plain old Ancalagonposting.
>>71830467
>Largest winged dragon that ever existed.
So is there a larger, non-winged dragon? Or did you just needlessly say add winged.
>>71830467
Most drawings massively exaggerate his size though.
>>71829629
Valinor (the name of the continent is actually Aman) is not Heaven, nor does it actually make one immortal. It's called the Undying Lands because those who are already immortal reside there. As for what happens to men when they die - they do go to the Halls of Mandos for a time, but what happens after - nobody knows, not even the Valar.
>>71830914
Yeah, in fact it makes mortals die faster since they're closer to the true powers.
>>71830914
>Valinor (the name of the continent is actually Aman) is not Heaven
Bilbo referred to it as such.
Day is ended, dim my eyes,
but journey long before me lies.
Farewell, friends! I hear the call.
The ship's beside the stony wall.
Foam is white and waves are grey;
beyond the sunset leads my way.
Foam is salt, the wind is free;
I hear the rising of the Sea.
Farewell, friends! The sails are set,
the wind is east, the moorings fret.
Shadows long before me lie,
beneath the ever-bending sky,
but islands lie behind the Sun
that I shall raise ere all is done;
lands there are to west of West,
where night is quiet and sleep is rest.
Guided by the Lonely Star,
beyond the utmost harbour-bar,
I'll find the heavens fair and free,
and beaches of the Starlit Sea.
Ship, my ship! I seek the West,
and fields and mountains ever blest.
Farewell to Middle-earth at last.
I see the Star above my mast!
It's probably the Hall of Illuvatar
>>71831025
Not him, and I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's hardly proof of anything.
People, fictional characters included tend to take poetic license while writing poems.
>>71831025
>I'll find the heavens fair and free
I'm fairly sure he's referring to the sky here.
Well, Aman is sort of like Heaven for a mortal, the Valar reside there and all, but it's not the afterlife.
>>71831025
First, it doesn't have capital letter, so it's a generic paradise that exists in several religions and second, Bilbo's poems were 'translated' over the ages until they reached us, so the 'translator' obviously used the words closest to his and our understanding.
>>71831176
>First, it doesn't have capital letter, so it's a generic paradise that exists in several religions and second, Bilbo's poems were 'translated' over the ages until they reached us, so the 'translator' obviously used the words closest to his and our understanding.
It would be lower case regardless of whether or not it was the real "Heaven" because from Bilbo's perspective it would never be referenced like that as a proper noun, but as simply "Valinor" or "The Undying Lands" which is it's proper name in his native tongue.
>>71829629
They go to the Halls of Mandos for a short while to dwell on their earthly life before leaving to parts unknown. But since Tolkien was a hardcore Catholic, I think we can presume that Men join Iluvatar in the Timeless Halls, IE Heaven.
This is sort of implied when Aragorn tells Arwen that "In sorrow we must go but not in despair, we are not forever bound to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory."
Interestingly, the idea of Hell doesn't seem to exist either. Evil men probably stay at the Halls of Mandos for a longer period of time, sort of like Purgatory but without the cleansing fires.
Is there religion in the ME? Whom do dwarves, men, hobbits worship?
>>71831370
The existence of a human afterlife is further reinforced by the debate between Hurin and Morgoth.
"This last I say to you, thrall Morgoth," said Hurin, "and it comes not from the lore of the Eldar, but is put into my heart this hour. You are not the Lord of Men, and shall not be, though all Arda and Menel fall in your dominion. Beyond the Circles of the World you shall not pursue those who refuse you.
Beyond the Circles of the World I will not pursue them," said Morgoth. "For beyond the Circles of the World there is Nothing. But within them they shall not escape me, until they enter into Nothing."
"You lie," said Hurin.
"You shall see and you shall confess that I do not lie," said Morgoth."
Now since more or less everything Morgoth say is bullshit, It's safe to say that Men have an afterlife.
>>71831370
Wasn't there some door into a black void where Morgoth, Sauron and maybe Saruman ended up when their power was broken? Although that's more like getting kicked off the edge of the world than Hell.
>>71831583
Tolkien didn't want there to be a religion per se, so there's no worshipping, just acknowledging the existence of higher powers and their effects on your life. And praises to them, but those are more like you'd praise your ruler or something along those lines.
When actual religion/worship was present, it was a bad thing. See: anything that has to do with Melkor.
>>71831675
Sauron and Saruman remained bound to Arda. Melkor was probably orbiting somewhere.
>>71831675
Door of the Night?
Those are located in the Uttermost West.
>>71831583
There's no such thing as an organized religion, though they do worship. Dwarves worship their creator Aule whom they call "Mahal" or "Maker". Elves don't actively worship Eru Iluvatar but his name is part of their wedding vows.
The Numenoreans worshipped Eru directly on the peak of Numenor's highest mountain from time to time. But this stopped when the Numenoreans became corrupted and converted to the worship of Morgoth.
Third Age men and hobbits worship no one. The Rohirrim sort of worship (or at least know of) the Vala Oromë who they call "Béma".
>>71831703
On another note, perhaps "worship" is the wrong word. "Venerate" better describes their relationship with the godly powers.
>>71831675
The Void is what I would call a Spirit Prison. See it as the Tolkien equivalent of Dante's Judecca. Only the biggest sinners and evildoers end up there.
>>71829629
they don't go to heaven where the angels fly
Where did Ungoliant come from exactly?
>>71831946
It seems like Ungoliant is a piece of the Void brought into Middle Earth that Melkor might have given some sentience to.
That would explain why she could kick his ass.
>>71831946
A side-effect and also embodiment of Melkor's discord. She's greedy, prideful and gluttonous and vomits pure darkness with a hate for everything but herself. She's more of a force of nature than an actual being. Like an evil Tom Bombadil.
>>71830646
Yes, Glaurung the Father of Dragons was even more HUGE.
>>71831025
That song is about Elendil, the Elvish mariner who sailed to Valinor using a Silmaril.
>>71831675
Just Morgoth, Sauron and Saruman were condemned to eternity as powerless and body-less spirits.
>>71832308
Isn't Elendil Numenorian?
>>71832285
Highly doubtful. In fact, I'm just going to say you're wrong.
>>71832332
>eternity
Not really, since they're bound to Arda.
lads anyone got a screencap of the "mënüë" funny shit about the menu meme
>>71832345
Yes, he meant Earendil.
>>71832345
Yes he was, I meant Earendil.
>>71832308
>Elendil, the Elvish mariner
RRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEE
it's Eärendil and he's half-elven
>>71831946
Literally a Black Hole that has taken physical form.
She devours every small piece of light that even comes close to her, and her hunger and thirst is endless. She spews forth darkness that kills all light. She has no endgame or overall plan, she just wants to absorb things to feed her own emptiness.
>>71832424
>half-elven
No such thing, half elves choose whether to become fully Elvish or fully human. Earendil chose Elven like his son Elrond, his other son Elros chose human and consequentially died long ago.
>>71832410
>>71832411
>>71832720
Why are /tv/ LOTR threads always so great and full of discussion on the lore and such?
>>71832968
Because lotr is comfy and about friendship and the importance of trees and songs and brotherhood. It rubs off on you, I unironically love everyone in this thread.
>>71832968
I am literally crying. This thread and other lotr threads like it, are all that remains of intelligent life on /tv/. Lost. All lost. A whisper of a shadow of long lost glory.
>>71832720
>>71832787
Two of my favourite illustrations. The descriptions of the Gates in The Book of Lost Tales are amazing.
>>71833224
Eh there's always /tg/.
>>71833450
>The descriptions of the Gates in The Book of Lost Tales are amazing.
Man, I'd love to own the complete History of Middle-Earth, but that fucking price-tag.
Hopefully, there's something somewhat affordable at this year's book fair in my city.
>>71832308
>That song is about Elendil, the Elvish mariner who sailed to Valinor using a Silmaril.
Wat.
Nigger it's about Bilbo leaving Middle Earth as he sets out from the Grey Havens.
>>71833708
If you're not obsessed with having the exact same editions for every volume, you can get them for about $9 or 10 from a site that even offers free shipping.
>>71833737
I live in the Balkans, so free shipping is something that tends to not cover my particular neck of the woods.
Book Depository is about one of the few sites who actually mean "free shipping".
But also, there's the problem of border control and the ludicrous taxes they can slap on you, that can often enough cost you more than the product you ordered online.
No, really, they're fucking retards who can't tell the worth of something, and they often don't bother to look it up online, so they just slap you with some random numbers.
>>71833737
>>71833779
I like Book Depository, but doesn't "free shipping" usually simply mean adjusting the prices to include shipping costs? Would be nice if that's not the case.
>>71834309
I don't know about any others, but BD never charged me anything more than what the book's price was stated to be on the site itself.
>>71834371
You misunderstood. I mean the shipping costs are already included in the price.
>>71834405
Oh that.
I don't think that's the case either, considering I compared the prices via multiple websites.
>>71829798
Kinda like real life.
>>71834405
Nope.
/tv/ trilogy stream when
>>71829694
he was good friends with CS lewis.
How does it make you feel that lotr was made by a christian?
>>71834628
Pretty good actually.
Only people who either didn't read the books or read it when their balls haven't dropped yet don't know that the entire series is an ode to the spirit of humanity as defined by Christian values.Not a Christian myself, but as far as Christianity inspired works go, Tolkien's books are damn good.
By the by, for the folks who are knowledgeable about the film trilogy, wasn't there 2 different versions of them? I'm not talking about theatrical and extended, but rather the difference in color filters. Like, I saw this one old .gif where Sauron is smashing Elves and Men at the beginning, but the sky is blue/dark blue, but in the regular stuff I saw it was more like sepia tinted or something.
>>71834556
>tfw can't even find a good torrent for the extended trilogy on either KAT or TPB
I really should look into getting in PTP sometime soon.
>>71829779
>These spirits are extremely evil and incredibly dangerous, in olden times human necromancers would summon them to gain their secrets but this almost always ends with the elven soul (it's "faer") possessing the human and easily crushing his puny mortal faer, becoming an undead abomination
[citation needed]
>>71830196
yeah that's very true, I never thought of it like that
>>71834749
>I really should look into getting in PTP sometime soon.
rutracker you fucking idiot
and there are good torrents on regular trackers
>>71834751
It was real in his mind.
>>71830147
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xf-X5KTMKU
>>71834797
Doesn't RT have dubbed stuff for the most part?
>>71830147
Dunno if this counts. I just always really liked these parts in the movies.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KXVtpOHQqvY
>>71830147
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QfHKv86gRQ
>>71834749
It might have been the blu-Ray vs the DVDs; they messed with filters a lot on that one.
>>71830147
Impossible to choose a favourite, really, but this one I really like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-wtm2vVXns
>>71835390
>>71830147
This too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSoR43Pq79g
Let's get some music here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTdslTHloFM
How did LOTR succeed in being so good? It was a true work of love and passion unlike most fantasy movies. The amazing music, good performances, incredible sets and costumes... Will anything ever beat LotR?
>>71835045
No, dual audio more like.
>>71835583
Because the people who worked on the trilogy put their heart and soul into it. Because they thought it was worth giving a damn.
Now?
Well, all you have to look at that Hobbit abomination and see what's the result of not giving a shit.
>>71835528
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT5-ZLJTi0I
best one coming through. Simplistic and full of feeling, while music from Tolkien's inspiration tends to be overdone and unnecessarily baroque.
>>71835600
Would you kindly link me a torrent with one that's got decent quality of sound and video without it being bloated up to shit and beyond?
>>71835611
But wasn't the Hobbit mess because Del Toro left and then they didn't have enough time to fix it?
>>71835692
>But wasn't the Hobbit mess because Del Toro left and then they didn't have enough time to fix it?
Yep. People blame Peter Jackson but he didn't even want to make it but was roped in after Del Taco left and the studio then said "lol you get no pre-production" which, by his own admission, left him scrambling to shoot shit while winging everything.
I mean consider that the LOTR had like 2 years of pre-production, with everything meticulously storyboarded, the props and set largely made, and the various teams ahead of work and prepared with a clear vision of what they were going to be making.
Although Peter isn't entirely innocent, as he likes CGI too much.
>>71830147
>>71830198
Came here to post this. Passing of the Elves is a great track. Sad they cut the scene out of the theatrical version, but I guess out of any movie, the extended editions of LOTR are also considered on the same level.
Also, Bridge of Kazad Dhum from Fellowship is a second favorite.
What do you think happened to Gollum after his death?
Were his 'sins' forgiven?
Not sure if they've been posted but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpELe90QuLg and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgcoBKWTW14 are objectively the best songs of the entire magnificent score.
>>71836051
He probably went to the void like I imagine the Ring Wraiths did, or his spirit just travels around aimlessly and powerlessly like Sauron's.
>>71836334
He was a mortal, so he just went wherever mortals go.
>>71834556
I could arrange this at some point if enough people are interested
reply if you are
>>71834751
it's from morgoth's ring and it's broadly accurate. you may or may not consider that canon given it's just tolkien's random notes.
it's not known if the barrow-wights were elven spirits but they do fit the bill.
>>71836445
>Morgoth's Ring
I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you're talking about.
>>71836464
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgoth%27s_Ring
>>71836414
I am but streams on tv died with the heavy DMCA stream banning.
I did manage to watch the trilogy in a populated /tv/ stream once though, it was superb.
>>71836489
Ah, part of that history of Middle-Earth.
I haven't read that one.
>>71836445
Not elven, they're Kings and Princes of those three kingdoms that Arnor was broken into. I'm certain that's it's touched upon in Appendixes and Unfinished Tales and other auxiliary works.
>>71835650
What's the limit? I can link you a BD rip Director's Cut.
>>71836722
30-40 GB for the whole trilogy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tgi-j56ueU
this still gives me goosebumps
>>71830147
This image is so fucking comfy. Jesus Christ how is it even possible.
>>71836787
I've never downloaded the movies from rutracker but I hope this is good enough
https://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4637103
>>71836797
I really liked the older covers from before the films ever came out.
>>71836844
Never link a torrent you newfag unless your behind 7 proxies
>>71836844
>>71836844
That's fantastic, thank you!
>>71836890
I don't understand your reasoning for this reaction.
>>71836934
>720x304 (2.37:1), 23.976 fps, XviD build 63 ~2269 kbps avg, 0.43 bit/pixel
>>71836972
Oh fuck, you're right.
I didn't even check.
Well, that shit sucks.
>>71836414
Desire to know more intensifies
>>71836972
What's with the filesize then?
>>71836972
Oops
>>71837039
>Ayдиo #1: 48 kHz, AC3 Dolby Digital, 3/2 (L,C,R,l,r) + LFE ch, ~448 kbps Rus
oтдeльнo:
>Ayдиo #2: 48 kHz, AC3 Dolby Digital, 3/2 (L,C,R,l,r) + LFE ch, ~448 kbps - Superbit
>Ayдиo #3: 48 kHz, AC3 Dolby Digital, 3/2 (L,C,R,l,r) + LFE ch, ~448 kbps - Пoзитив
>Ayдиo #4: 48 kHz, AC3 Dolby Digital, 3/2 (L,C,R,l,r) + LFE ch, ~448 kbps - Гaвpилoв
>Ayдиo #5: 48 kHz, AC3 Dolby Digital, 3/2 (L,C,R,l,r) + LFE ch, ~448 kbps - Pябoв
>Ayдиo #6: 48 kHz, AC3 Dolby Digital, 3/2 (L,C,R,l,r) + LFE ch, ~448 kbps - Eng
What are you newfag trolmen doing on this board
why not link yify instead for maximum epin
>>71837101
What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't post the link, I'm just wondering how the filesize is so large for quality that shit.
>>71837191
And i just explained why that is.
23G is not good at all for 3 fucking movies at 1080p.
that is not even big enough size a SINGLE 1080p movie should have
How did Tolkien and Jackson get away with the whole (((Sauron))) manipulating darkskinned hordes to invade the white west?
>>71836414
well it's about time for my yearly re-watch of lotr so what the hey
>>71836414
They ban for promoting streams here but I would love to watch LOTR with /tv/
>>71837530
Well in Harad most tribesmen were subjugated by the Black Numenoreans. The Haradrim did have a noble and skilled leader however that died fighting Theoden. Easterlings and Haradrim just hate Gondor because they were invading dicks.
>>71837579
>tfw ywn watch those wonderful streams with tv
>>71837622
We must save the west from the hordes of mordor and their uruk hai half breeds they make with our women
>>71835650
no compromises
kat.cr/the-lord-of-the-rings-trilogy-1080p-extended-complete-bluray-dts-t7617802.html#main
>>71838083
I bet that's the Grym version that's over 100GB.
>check it out
Yep, knew it.
Look, if I had all that extra free space lying around, I'd use it in a heartbeat and download that.
Why die when you can fight?
>>71838843
>>71838843
>>71838843
>>71836445
The spirits iirc were just generic evil spirits sent to haunt the Barrows by te Witch-king.
>>71830467
>posting the edited version
>>71834628
tolkien converted cs lewis dumbass
>>71829629
They go to a galaxy far far away.
>>71830147
these arent official songs, but they are recurring themes that show up in tons of the songs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayb9v_Ycqq4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DPebk9YKco
>>71830147
My eye well up every time i hear the shire theme, its such a happy song and so sad at the same time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chLZQtCold8
Close second is the march of Rohan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5_xb522jEo
>>71839898
Nice one. I think the last one would look better without Gollum though, to further emphasize how alone they are.
I guess he's purposefully put in all 3 though. Didn't notice him in the FotR one at first.
