Why did this get so much hate?
>>71775356
Plebs couldn't understand the puré Kinôgraphié of Zack Snyder.
Man of steel is pure perfection
>>71775356
>>71775356
Because it's bad. Even that poster sucks a whole ass. It's amazing what passes for a movie poster now.
>>71775356
It wasn't that good
People don't get it.
>>71775356
no quips
>>71776071
I liked BvS a lot but MoS is an irredeemable piece of fuck.
>>71776161
I forgive for you know not what you posted. In time, you will join us in the sun.
The quip fueled marvel mind can't understand the symbolism
>>71776231
Ebin
>>71775356
too smart of Disney fans.
same problem every Zack Snyder film has.
Shills
>>71775356
The MoS and BvS is good is the best meme this board ever created, I don't even know when they're being serious or just trolling anymore.
>>71776806
not a meme it's the truth.
Because it's absolutely shitty adaptation. It's much better than some shit like Thor2, IM2-3 etc and pretty decent capeshit. But all Kents were portrayed so awful it still hurts.
>>71776806
as someone responsible for pasta, i can't either
>>71775356
because of the muh destruction and muh kents are wrong (they're not, no matter how hard their words get twisted around)
which is funny, because neither of those things make a movie bad
>>71775356
It's just the tornado sequence that memsters like to harp on.
It's not terrible but it's oddly paced and a bit glum.
6/10.
>>71776806
I genuinely love them. But people get so butthurt about these films for some reason, so it's fun to watch them react to Snyder-cult-like posts in anger. Win-win situation.
Plus, the meme version of Snyder love helps a good movie to spread.
>>71775356
>literally plot holes: the movie
>>71775356
people were expecting it to be a Marvel-tier, hollow, production-line quipfest
But Snyder surprised everyone by dropping pure, refined Kino onto our plates
>>71776071
>>71777848
It's funny how people mentonied quips, but MoS and BvS also had quips and jokes in dialoges. It were just so bad and awkward that nobody remembers them. Don't even try to defend Goyer's script, plebs.
memes
>>71777690
Like what?
>>71775356
It's a terrible movie.
The plot is pointless and full of holes, the characters are dour and depressed all the time, the story makes exactly the same mistake literally every bad Superman story makes (making him an allegory for Jesus), the symbolism is hamfisted, the subtext doesn't exist, and Superman doesn't actually have a character.
It's a bad movie. That's literally all there is to it.
>>71778144
all superman movies had that parallelism to different ends
all
of
them
(except maybe three and four)
>>71778144
>full of holes
Such as?
> the characters are dour and depressed all the time
That's not true.
>making him an allegory for Jesus
That's what he is, the thematic core of Superman has always, always been the balance of godlike power and human fallibility
>the symbolism is hamfisted, the subtext doesn't exist
This is a tautology.
>Superman doesn't actually have a character.
I don't know how to argue this one, you seem to not have watched the film at all.
>>71778186
Debatable.
And even if it's there in 1 and 2, it's not HAMMERED INTO YOUR SKULL WITH THE FORCE OF A THOUSAND SUNS like it is in Man of Steel.
>plot holes big enough to fly a fleet of space dildos through
>>71775356
>Why did this get so much hate?
Because apart from some of the actors doing the best they can with the shitty materiel they had, the movie is pure shite.
It starts off by trying to make Jor-El into some fucking action hero riding a dragon (!) on Krypton, and it continued in that same contrived way throughout the entire film, which of course includes the hilarious scene with Kevin Costner as Superman's dad telling him to let him die just to make a totally pathetic point...
Only part of the movie I enjoyed somewhat was the fight in Smallville (at least I think it was), the drawn out and totally tiresome fight against Zod at the end had me tune out completely, oh, I have an idea, let's crash through a building, and again, and again...
The story was something out of a ten minute fan-fiction contest with it's insanely forced plot devices.
Oh, and that fucking blue-green tint on every scene.... wtf...
>>71778245
its not 'hammered' in man of steel, the only reason people even bring it up is because of a few visual cues. if not for those, no one would have noticed because the vast majority of people simply don't know about those kinds of things, which is fine
its fascinating to me that people complain about jesus behind clark when he's at a church looking for guidance but don't complain about the cross behind the priest
all of these complains are completely overblown
>>71775541
Does literally anyone except hate The Dark Knight Returns?
Of course, except for the edgy babbycore faggots
>>71776806
This. I don't think /tv/ itself knows when it's being serious.
>>71778305
>insanely forced plot devices.
Can you provide some examples?
>>71778305
>contrived
Why did you use that word? What do you think that word means in this context?
>>71778243
>Such as?
Admittedly, it has been a while since I've seen the movie, but a few come to mind
>Why did it only take Zod and his army a few minutes to master the same powers it took Superman an entire lifetime to figure out?
>Why did the girl Kryptonian want Lois Lane on the ship?
>Why couldn't the Kryptonians terraform LITERALLY ANY OTHER PLANET?
>That's what he is, the thematic core of Superman has always, always been the balance of godlike power and human fallibility
That's not Jesus, though. You're thinking of Moses. Which is what all good Superman stories try to draw parallels to. Superman isn't Space Jesus, he's Space Moses. Similar, but the delineation between the two is crucial.
>>71778377
>its not 'hammered' in man of steel,
Come the FUCK on
The worst thing here that Henry CAN act and be perfect Superman, but Hack and Goyer didn't let him. What a waste of talent and charisma.
>>71775356
Because older folks wanted Reeves Superman era of feel good Americana culture. Instead they got a good action flick, with shitty religious symbolism and amazing destruction porn that gave them 911 ptsd. Compared to the genre, MoS is good warts an all.
>>71778472
>Why did it only take Zod and his army a few minutes to master the same powers it took Superman an entire lifetime to figure out?
They were highly trained soldiers and had a functional Kryptonian scientific base to help them along. Clark had squat.
>Why did the girl Kryptonian want Lois Lane on the ship?
Because she was the only potential leverage against Clark. They knew about the article, they knew there was something between her and Clark.
>Why couldn't the Kryptonians terraform LITERALLY ANY OTHER PLANET?
Firstly they needed the Index of Kryptonian genetic data. Secondly the attempts by the Kryptonians to terraform barren planets had turned out to be unsustainable without the assistance of Krypton.
>the delineation between the two is crucial.
Can you explain the nature of this dichotomy, and what missteps MoS made such that it referred to the wrong flawed human being granted the power of God and tasked with leading people to salvation?
>You should have left those children drown to death son
/tv/ is 60% women now
>>71778654
This is a meme. The truth is Jonathon didn't know how to raise a superpowered ch8ild. That's why he said 'Maybe'. He doesn't have a clue, because he's a human being, capable of ignorance or mistakes.
>>71778719
Or, maybe, he is just an asshole.
Reminder that MoS is absolute capekinography.
https://youtu.be/7p5-14rjWUM
>>71778739
No, it's the other thing. It's central to the plot.
>>71778516
Most people misinterpret that scene.
>>71778649
>referred to the wrong flawed human being granted the power of God
That's the difference, right there. Jesus wasn't flawed. That was kind of his whole shtick.
Jesus was born into greatness and remained perfect through temptation. Only once, EVER, did he question his own morals, and by then it didn't really matter anyway.
Moses was born under unusual circumstances, but he had greatness thrust upon him in a way that allowed him to still occasionally succumb to mortal fallibility, which he did do many times. In fact, he wasn't even allowed inside Israel, the land he lead his people to for 40 years, because he was too imperfect.
Basically, Jesus never walked away.
Moses could have walked away, and did a few times, but always returned to fulfill his duty.
It's human fallibility in the face of great power that makes Superman a compelling character, and fallibility is the one quality Jesus never had.
>>71778472
>>71778649
not that these are holes because some of these are explained in the movie
zod and his army didn't master the powers, even as a kid superman displayed both powers and the ability to use them, we even get the scene where zod is confronted with the earth atmosphere and he had the same experience young clark did
the only thing faura and namek display is being superstrong, none of them displayed a mastery of the full kryptonian power as zod did later with the "i was bred to be a warrior/ i've spent my life honing my senses"
lois lane had been the one who leaked the story about superman and the kryptonians wanted to see what she knew, she explicitly tells clark that they went into her head in the same way zod did with clark to see what she knew
i don't remember but the line was something about how they needed a foundation and earth fit the bill. to them humans were completely inferior so they didn't care
jesus is moses. literally the same core story with a few updates. in fact, the new testament directly compares jesus to moses for legitimacy and contrasts him to make the point of divinity
i mean, moses is literally messianic, he delivers the israelites, and so to was the future messiah supposed to deliver them as well
>>71778719
Anyone with a brain in their head would have praised Clark for saving a bus full of drowning children whether he has superpowers or not. A dozen families still have their children because of what Clark did. That is the most important thing and if you don't agree you're a pile of garbage.
"People hate what they don't understand."
>>71778872
>Jesus wasn't flawed. That was kind of his whole shtick.
That's completely untrue. He gave into wrath with the moneylenders in the temple. He gave into fear in the garden of Gethsemane. He expressed pride more times than you can count. His whole schtick is being the human element of the trinity, with all the fallibility that entails.
>>71778516
again, why aren't you complaining about the cross behind the priest? what is it about that specific still in a two hour movie that triggers you so much?
which again, every complaint about character moments in the movie is always in the middle of a scene while completely ignoring the conclusion of these scenes.
>>71778927
>Anyone with a brain in their head would have praised Clark for saving a bus full of drowning children whether he has superpowers or not.
>Everyone obviously thinks what I think! If a character seems to not think like I think, it must be bad writing!
Go back to your feature-length live-action cartoons.
>>71778919
>she explicitly tells clark that they went into her head in the same way zod did with clark to see what she knew
Why would they even care?
And Superman was completely helpless on board their ship anyway, AND they didn't need him alive to get what they wanted from him, so "leverage" is a pretty flimsy excuse too
>>71779059
Do you know that Johnathan and Martha Kent is representation of kindness selflessness and humanity? Why the hell Johnathan is egotistical asshole?
>>71779059
So saving drowning children is a bad thing? Ok. Good luck getting a decent human being to agree with you on that.
>>71778998
Theological philosophers have debated for literally millenia over whether the bit with the money lenders in the temple count as succumbing to anything, because they were breaking sacred law by being there in the first place.
The only time Jesus ever showed true, undeniable weakness was in Gethsemane, and he still went through with everything. "Remove this cup from me *if it would be thy will*". Walking away never occurred to him.
>>71779135
>Do you know that Johnathan and Martha Kent is representation of kindness selflessness and humanity?
Not in this movie. In this movie they're uhman beings.
>>71779147
>So saving drowning children is a bad thing?
No, but any parent would be hesitant to tell their kid that it's a good thing to put their life at risk for others. It's part of the protective instinct.
>>71775356
really don't know, it's my favorite cape shit since Nolans batman and Iron Man 1. It's much better than BvS even
>>71779147
Different guy but if your kid (not biological) has superpowers, saving folks brings in the govt whom will starting asking questions and eventually take your child away. Kent was simply looking out for his own. Sidenote: they should have had him(kentSr.) say son I will do anything to protect you.
>>71779193
>No, but any parent would be hesitant to tell their kid that it's a good thing to put their life at risk for others. It's part of the protective instinct.
You had really shitty parents growing up.
Know that.
>>71779193
Yeah, lets make two good people who teach their superson to save and inspire people no matter what and make them self-doubt egoistical jerks who don't know capabilties of their son for years.
>>71779159
Bullshit, Jesus flipped his fucking shit in the temple by all accounts, it was definitely a moral slip.
And if anything your second point emphasizes a reference to Jesus over Moses because the second most significant element of Supermans' thematic makeup is his reliance on father figures. First Jonathan, then the hologram of Jor-El, Clark, until he becomes a fully fledged superhero, is pretty much always just doing what he's told. Not just in MoS, in every incarnation.
>>71779135
>Why the hell Johnathan is egotistical asshole
in man of steel? when?
you mean the moment he tells clark that he will change the world when he grows up?
you mean when he tells clark that its not just their lives and the lives of their community at stake but the whole world *will* change because of him?
because every decision around clark is not even about his own life or the life of his family but the whole world.
>>71779193
>put their life at risk
SUPERMAN
>>71775356
BECAUSE "NEW COMICS FANS" OR MORE LIKE, "TV SHOWS FANS" WANTED TO WATCH A MOVIE MORE LIKE SMALLVILLE... THATS WHY NEW FAGS ALSO HATED SYDER'S LUTHOR.
>>71779295
Let them drown, Clark. Fuck these kids. You can accidently show yourself to the world which isn't ready. Hide for years and don't help anyone except random strangers on your way.
>>71779075
why wouldn't they? fuck, they directly say what they wanted in the movie. i don't how this is a legitimate complaint
yeah he was helpless, so what? they wanted information on where to find the codex, and only later find out that they don't need him alive
you're applying future knowledge to a moment past, which is complete bullshit given you're trying to prove how fucked up the movie is
>>71779295
The underlying psychology of snyder's pa kent is, "because I am weak, therefore you must be as well. Let people die. Let kids drown. Let me die. If you don't, you'll just cause worse problems down the line. You're a good son."
>>71779280
You're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with the entire school of evolutionary biology
>>71779289
>let's take the ABSOLUTE COINCIDENCE that a superpowered alien JUST HAPPENS to travel across the infinite depths of the cosmos and land in the field of a childless couple who JUST SO TURN OUT to be the greatest parents on the planet, absolute paragons of truth and virtue and the 100% optimal people to raise a super powered son
>and instead make them some realistic human characters
I don't know what your problem is mate
>>71779193
>>71779257
I'm going to tell you exactly what John Kent should have said to Clark about the situation.
"I know I've told you many times not to reveal your powers to anyone, but you did the right thing saving those other children. You're a hero now, and even though you disobeyed me you made the right decision."
The movie is all fucked up but if he said something in the vein of that it would have improved the scene greatly.
>>71779193
shut the fuck up, you're giving people fucking fuel, that was never the point of any of the scenes in question
>every kryptonian born on this planet will be a literal god
>TERRAFORM THIS PLANET IMMEDIATELY
>>71779293
>Bullshit, Jesus flipped his fucking shit in the temple by all accounts
The debate there lies in whether or not he was justified in doing so. Sticking to your morals doesn't mean you have to be passive all the time.
And calling back to figures was a big Moses thing too. King Ramses, then his mother, then God himself
>>71779384
You must be surrounded by shitty people, anon, if you think, that asshole parents are "realistic", while best parents in the world don't
Capeshit will never surpass this scene
>>71779298
Jonathan doesn't have a fucking clue what's going on. He doesn't know if Clark is invincible. He might be vulnerable to fire, he might be vulnerable to electricity, he might be vulnerable to some sort of magical green space rock. A parent will always fear the worst for their child.
>>71776264
>>71776474
>>71776941
>>71777950
>>71778144
>>71778305
>>71778654
These are all correct.
>>71779392
Agreed but I can empathize with the original decision. Also not sure if you guys knew this but they rushed the film something due to losing rights if a film was not made.
literally everyone and me included would have liked the film if it was even remotely decent. The trailer has an amazing feeling to it even though you can already get a bad taste of blurry blue filter. The final movie itself is an irredeemable piece of shit, I don't care about superman killing people, I don't care about kent being a morron, I don't care about lois, I don't care about plotholes, it's just a boring piece of trash, cgi filled to the brim as if an hour long sequence of building destruction simulations would make up for a movie
>>71779361
>>71779377
not at all, not at all
and fuck you for being the kind of person that twists shit around to fit your agenda
that's not what jonathan kent said at all
even if you ignore the rest of the scene, the word MAYBE is in no way equivalent to YES LET THEM DROWN
a guy looking down and uncomfortably saying "m-maybe" is in no way the same to a guy shrugging his fucking shoulders and saying "yeah, fuck it, who gives a shit"
especially considering that right after that he explains how his existence affects everyone, which gets to the
ACTUAL POINT OF THE SCENE
when clark demands answers to why he is the way he is
>>71779464
>hey dad, I pushed a school bus full of kids out of a lake and saved them all
>HOLY SHIT YOU RISKED YOUR LIFE NEVER DO THAT AGAIN
I mean, I get that a writer can't write a character more intelligent than he/she is, but all of snyder's characters have been complete retards.
>>71779392
why? seriously, why?
so we can have a character moralize and make you comfortable for it?
there's nothing fucking wrong with the scene as it is, yet somehow the guy committed an unforgivable sin for expressing his discomfort with the situation he was in
especially considering that clark didn't even know he was an alien yet
>>71779516
the scene is pa kent SCOLDING HIS INVULNERABLE SON for exerting effort to SAVE DROWNING KIDS.
It doesn't matter what he actually says in the scene.
>>71779392
Yeah, he should have said something like that. But he didn't feel that way. He was wrong not to feel that way. But being wrong doesn't make his character badly written.
>>71779399
It absolutely was the point. What was the point, then, cuz?
>>71779438
I guess we've reached an impasse, then. If milennia of theological debate hasn't concluded one way or the other whether evicting the moneylenders was giving way to rtage, and whether or not that was sinful, then we're certainly not going to do so here on a Bangladeshi tapestry-weaving forum.
>>71779443
The best parents in the world literally are not realistic. Expecting people who've never raised a child to do a perfect job of raising a child is unrealistic. My parents are great, but they're not perfect. But even so, I'm not talking about my parents. I'm talking about parents in general. If you put a parent in a Saw-like situation, press button A your kid dies, press button B half a dozen stranger kids die, they'll push button A every single time.
>>71779577
he wasn't fucking scolding the kid
watch the fucking scene
first, he ditches the situation with the mother and the kid because he sees the state clark is in
when he gets there he starts talking then immediately tones himself down and tells clark that he has to keep this a secret (completely true to comics btw)
after which we see clark struggling with the idea of how to act to which takes us to maybe,
after which we see him soften his voice, move closer to clark, and explain the situation
we see clark getting more restless until it gets to the point where clark questions why god made him that way, where we see jonathan realize that he has to tell clark the truth, then cut to the barn
no kid who gets fucking scolded by an authority figure gets to actually have a back and forth with that authority figure
>>71779641
Well, comic version of Pa Kent were smart enough to learn about his alien son capabilies. Also, sefleness.
Fuck dozens of kids, Clark, you PROBABLY could hurt yourself a bit.
>>71779576
Johnathen Kent is supposed to be a good father that instills morality in Clark. He's supposed to tell him that saving people in danger is the right thing to do. Instead we got a man who can't even tell him that saving drowning children was a good thing to do and that he shouldn't be ashamed of that.
>>71779641
the point of the fucking scene is that clark is distressed at entering more and more into the implications of his existence, which leads to the inevitable moment of truth at which jonathan tells him he's an alien, and tells him that he has to spend the rest of his life looking for his purpose in life
this is basic scene reading 101: the last moments of a scene are the conclusion everything prior are moving towards
>>71779641
Heres the point you're missing though. Snyder feels clark is a weakness/flaw in superman. That superman's attempts to be human are to his detriment. So he built ma and pa kent around making clark the weakest person possible so he could "die" and superman could just be superman all the time.
The problem with all of this (apart from it being the type of shit eight year olds think is cool) is superman without any humanity or humility is just a figure that would crown himself god-king of the earth.
>>71779715
>Well, comic version of Pa Kent were smart enough to learn about his alien son capabilies.
This is not a comic. This is a film. It's a whole different thing, anon.
>Fuck dozens of kids, Clark, you PROBABLY could hurt yourself a bit.
It's not about immediate harm. It's about attracting attention. And he's right, the story of him saving the kids was a crucial step in Lois' process of tracking him down.
>>71775541
>The movies will never be as good as those badass posters suggest
I was so hyped for MoS before it came out. I thought we'd finally get a good Superman movie that went more into depth about how he just wants to be a normal dude but is thrust into being Earth's hero because of how Jesus-like he is.
Then when I saw how shitty and how much of a mess it was I was just angry. I'm still disappointed that those movies failed. Sigh, ah well.
>>71779704
Son, I understand that actual subtext and overtones are beyond you, so can we just stop?
>>71775356
compared to batman vs. superman, this shit is citizen kane
>>71779823
Snyder movies always make for great promotional material. The man just seems incapable of actual filmmaking.
Dude should go back to music videos.
>>71779817
Don't you see that good Kents would be praised if they were in the movie? THIS Kents become meme and hateful retards. Why the hell comic versions wouldn't work? It's a movie about aliens with super streingh and shit. Why on Earth GOOD parents will look bad and "unrealistic"?
>>71779785
Nah, that doesn't sound right.
>>71779804
>>71779804
>So he built ma and pa kent around making clark the weakest person possible so he could "die" and superman could just be superman all the time.
That's not why. It's partially why, but Snyder doesn't want to leave the Clark persona behind, he just wants to ensure that it can be realistically flawed. Superman often gives way to the kind of impassioned behaviroual slips a human would. Like smashing up the guy's truck, or getting all buttmad that Zid is thrreatening his mother. Superman would simply deal with these situations, Clark gives in to his rage, because that's what people do.
>>71779917
Well, an actual superman would make the dark and gritty superhero universe impossible to sustain.
So if superman had good parents, superman would turn the world into jimmy-olsen-ville in short order.
>>71779758
wooowww
dude, the point of that scene was never whether saving those kids was the right and moral thing to do, that was never in question,
the "maybe" itself isn't the point of the scene either
the point is in maneuvering the social implications and effects his existence, which moves clark through more and more realizations about himself existentially, which leads to point that he questions "why am i like this"
funnily enough lex luthor himself is the embodiment of the world rejecting clark, everything jonathan indirectly warned him about, and as we see, that has immense consequences that clark himself isn't responsible for
>>71779976
> but Snyder doesn't want to leave the Clark persona behind
BvS was entirely about killing clark so superman could be super.
But its been clear for a while that anyone who praises snyder can't into subext, overtones, or inference, so can we just stop?
>>71779846
i don't know what this means
not enough Antje
not enough Faora
>>71779917
>Don't you see that good Kents would be praised if they were in the movie
By plebs, maybe.
> It's a movie about aliens with super streingh and shit.
No, it's about much more than that. This seems to be a common conception among detractors, they go in assuming its capeshit and let that colour their impressions. Capeshit can't be sophisticated, so when this film is sophisticated, it can't actually be real sophistication, so it must be bad. That's your fault, not the movie's.
> Why on Earth GOOD parents will look bad and "unrealistic"?
They are 'good', they're just not perfect. Perfection is always unrealistic. They do a relatively decent job of raising a superpowered son, but it's not easy and they make mistakes. That's much more realistic.
>>71779976
>Nah, that doesn't sound right.
are you fucking kidding me?
you mean to say that the moment everything prior had built to isn't actually the important part of that scene?
this "doesn't sound right" fucking how?
and why the fuck are you saying that superman has always been some sort of saint that always has the perfect reaction to everything.
>>71780023
>that was never in question
It was to Clark. He was like 14. He lives by everything his parents tell him because he doesn't know any better yet, so when John says "maybe," he puts the morality of his actions into question.
>>71780042
>BvS was entirely about killing clark so superman could be super.
No it wasn't. Why would you think that? When he almost gives in to his rage and eyelasers Lex on the roof, or when he's coughing his life out and pleads with Bruce to save his mother, that's all Clark. Hell, even failing to stop the bombing, that's basically screaming "LOOK AT HOW FALLIBLE AND HUMAN HE IS".
>>71780159
except its not even a discussion about morality, its about unforeseen consequences
again, jonathan never said "let those kids drown" the fact that him uncomfortably saying maybe like he could barely say it gets twisted around as such proves how bullshit this whole conversation is both onto itself and given the rest of the movie proving that clark never stops saving people, and in adulthood sidesteps the social consequences by moving from place to place
>>71780130
Are you saying that a scene can only be thematically centred on its conclusion? Because that's wrong. The scene makes one point, and then goes on to make another, unrelated point. After a cut and a change of location.
And I'm saying that Superman is a perfect being, because he is, but he's also just a persona. Superman is a role played by Clark, and it's tempered by his humanity, and so is played imperfectly.
>>71780005
STAS were pretty grim sometimes. And all this dark moments are much stronger when they goin in light-hearted universe of hope and man of tommorow.
>>71780086
Dude, you just trying to make Snyder's generic pretentious capeshit into something more. It's just bad with matherial it's based on.
Look at Watchmen. Snyder didn't touch anything with his VISION and movie is one of the best capeshit so far. But here you defending Goyer's script! Man, that's just hilarious.
>>71780266
You're trying way too hard to make MOS look like a good movie. It has a good story. That's where it stops. There you go.
>>71780266
>rest of the movie proving that clark never stops saving people
>Clark literaly stops saving people for years till he grew up
>>71780298
>you just trying to make Snyder's generic pretentious capeshit into something more
No, you're just flatly refusing to believe that it could be more, because it would mean accepting that you were wrong.
>It's just bad
wew lad, you should critique for Vanity Fair
>>71780349
>stops saving people for years till he grew up
Where did you get that idea?
>>71780268
not always, but they tend to be written that way, in most movies, the conclusion of the scene is the point of the scene that everything prior builds to
what you cut from inevitably becomes the last word
that whole scene is building to the point where clark angrily demands answers from his father in regards to why he's the way he is which leads to jonathan telling him the truth. this whole talk about that scene is irrelevant because of this and other things
superman a perfect being? since fucking when? that shit is something that has built up in the minds of people over the decades without much influence from the comics.
this whole deification actually proves the move snyder takes in bvs right anyway, as everything about the way people even complain about the movies prove that superman is on that level in the minds of people
snyder gets bashed as a superman heretic, and no one sees the irony here?
>>71780334
>>71780349
doing no such thing you goddamn moron. all we're talking about is one small moment and the bullshit twists you people try to spin on it.
this moment on its own doesn't make it a bad movie, no movie would be bad for it
everyone in smallville is in on clark's secret. and life or death situations like that don't happen every fucking week anyway. how the fuck do people think these are legitimate complaints
>>71780418
>this whole talk about that scene is irrelevant because of this and other things
It's not tho
>superman a perfect being? since fucking when?
Since always, on an ideological level. I'm not sure I'm even disagreeing with you on this one. Superman, as a character on the whole, is imperfect, but that's because within the canon he's a combination of an ideal element, Superman, and a flawed element, Clark Kent. Superman reflects the idea of an omnipotent benevolent god, Clark reflects the reality of emotional, fallible humanity.
>>71780366
Just ask casuals, comic fans and capeshit fans is Snyder's movie is masterpice or not.
And I didn't mean to say it's bad. I wanted to say it doesn't respect matherial at all. It shit on Superman and DC universe.
For capeshit - its good movie.
But it's shitty adaptation of Superman and the idea of Superman itself.
>>71780498
Of course this moment doesn't make the movie bad. All of the bad moments combined make it bad.
>>71780542
fuck me man cut the shit and just say the character is reflective of the way humans have always seen themselves in relation to divinity
the actual fact of the matter that it seems to me you're bullshitting around is not that superman himself is perfect, but rather that this is another instance of man projecting his own inner ideal self outward through fiction ie feuerbach's anthropological lens of christianity
which leads us right back to fucking bvs
>>71775356
>>71775356
Because it was boring.
>>71780782
To be honest mate that's implicit, it seems to be we're not actually disagreeing with each other at all here, you're just saying the same thing from a different perspective. I'm talking about what is, you're talking about why it is.
>>71780738
the moment is not bad itself, none of the moments are (well shit, i'd be lying if i said that goyer dialogue never irks me)
i remember seeing it and thinking it was a solid movie, and in the years since becoming aware of the 'discussion' around it online
>>71780863
well fuck me again fucking anonymous 4chan poster i get that *now*
shit. superman = man reaching for the divine (as always)
yet snyder is a very bad man for cutting the shit and addressing that
>>71780889
I don't know what people see in it. I've watched it so many times in an attempt to understand why people like it but it's so boring and soulless in it's design. Everyone wants dark and gritty now so that's what we got. It just can't compete with the charm and rich character the Donner film (and fuck even Superman Returns) had.
>>71781064
i don't think its dark and gritty at all. those adjectives are meaningless to me anyway, whatever
hell, i'm only into donnerman until superman actually shows up in the movie. i don't see a guy pushing up his glasses every minute as part of his act as charming either. nor a bunch of bits based on superman's unique abilities
obviously i saw those movies first but i appreciate mos more. although to me that's not saying much
Because it's a terrible movie.
>>71781064
Dark and gritty is the issue.
Batman's tone doesn't work with other superheroes. It can't be copy and pasted to Superman and just work.
Marvel is doing it correctly.
People are just butthurt marvel is successful and can't comprehend that quips are ok in blockbuster movies.
BvS and MoS were joyless disasters and the praise here just stems from natural contrarianism.
>>71781212
It sounds like you don't have a good memory of the Donner film. The writing and acting are almost flawless, the score and set design are top notch. The only things lacking are the story and the bit at the end where he turns back time.
>>71781286
As much as dilike BvS and MoS as DC fan, I want to say that IM2-3, Thor-2, Cap-1, Antmen and Age of shittron are much worse than MoS but still praised by critics and casuals. MoS is Thor-1 level movie and BvS is not 27% bad. Cuckritics are just disneyshills
>>71778516
Why do people still post this, do they enjoy getting exposed as plebtards who get their opinioms from youtube critics?
>>71781769
I was looking for this the other day in the archive. Saved.
>>71781780
>wow pretty pictures
>>71780298
> dark moments are much stronger when they goin in light-hearted universe of hope and man of tommorow.
Yet another thing snyder misses completely. Hes like hes trying to take all the dark moments from the comics and make entire movies from nothing else. Not understanding the reason those moments were compelling was the context in which they were presented, rather than just the moments themselves.
But snyder has cognitive abilities of an 8 year old.
>>71781842
Birdman and The Revenant garnered acclaim for nothing else but cinematography.
Where is Snyder's Oscar?
>>71778819
what there to misinterpret? Snyder's superman is literally heyzeus chirsto and that scene hes asking a priest of he should sacrifice himself to save humanity.
and jesus is in the background.
>>71781870
The cinematography in MOS wasn't even that good. Most of the "impressive" shots were of CGI landscapes.
>>71781870
Where's snyder's superhero movie that is one long cut?
>>71781780
I watched it awhile ago in black and white, really amazing how Snyder incorporates shading in his work. I know hes not that great of a director but he really improves on his visuals in every movie.
>>71782013
Snyder isn't directly involved with the CGI department what are you talking about
>>71781971
>Gravity received a leading ten Academy Award nominations (tied with American Hustle) and won seven (the most for the ceremony), including the following: Best Director (for Cuarón), Best Cinematography (for Lubezki)
>Best Cinematography (for Lubezki)
>80 percent of the movie (Gravity) consisted of CG—compared to James Cameron's Avatar (2009), which was 60 percent CG
Why is Ali J allowed a free pass on everything? is he the epitome of oscarbait?
>>71781992
I'm pretty sure this is bait.
>>71782158
Feel free to elaborate.
>>71782180
Birdman isn't a long cut.
>>71782220
Yes? and?
>>71781870
Birdman is le ebin meta-humour
Revenant I'll give you that, literal oscar bait
They are a 6 and a 8 imo
>>71782336
I mean an 8 and a 6, damn.
>>71781286
fuck off with this bullshit
>dark and gritty as catch all phrases
marvel isn't doing their heroes "correctly"
they're doing them a certain way, there's nothing invalid about anything in the dc movies we have so far. there's nothing invalid about marvel movies.
and this thread wasn't even about "success" which varies by how different people define it
>>71781858
none of this about dark moments and lightheartedness is necessarily true
the proof? justice league: gods and monsters
its not a lighthearted story, and by sidestepping mainstream iterations the creators got to do whatever they wanted
this whole "light dark" is a false dichotomy, even in relation to the comics
>>71781474
they aren't.
BvS isn't even a competent movie. There is no third act. The last hour is an advertisement for future movies.
Age of Ulton did it miles better.
>>71782526
Warner bros saw Nolan's movies make money and copy-and-pasted that tone on everything else and came out with two movies that shat the bed and ended up being a pile of garbage that ended being hated by even the hardest of DC fanboys.
It was a creative failure in every sense of the word.
A movie with two cultural icons didn't even make a billion dollars, that's fucking pathetic.
There is nothing wrong with the movie
.
Superman saved the world. Superman was willing to kill someone to save 6 billion of human beings. Superman is a hero.
>>71782779
>Age of Ultron did it miles better
I'm not defending BvSBecause I haven't seen itbut Age of Ultron is just a worse The Avengers, and The Avengers was the worst movie I've seen in the last decade.
Age of Ultron did nothing write except casting James Spader, and they even managed to fuck that up WHILE ruining JARVIS.
>>71775356
It was a piece of shit turd crap dropping. That's why.
>>71775356
coz snyder makes plebs uncomfortable
>>71782913
that's your opinion, not what most people hold to be true.
Most people liked Ultron as a competent, if a bit bloated, movie.
The Avengers was a massive success in every sense of the word and pleased almost every fan and normie. Not to mention it made an extremely high amount of money and got almost universal critical praise across the board.
>>71782913
>Age of Ultron did nothing write
>write
whoops
>>71782875
why don't you save the responses that pasta gets, anon?
and nolan was involved with the first one, which wasn't about copy pasting movies, it was about striking a similar approach to a more "grounded" and "realistic" take on the character. nothing wrong with that
>>71782997
>that's your opinion, not what most people hold to be true.
damn.
anon got btfo
>>71783062
Because two movies just came out proving that people don't care for that type of movie.
MoS is the antithesis of what Superman should be.
It shouldn't be boring and generic post-9/11 self-serious trash.
WHY does MOS get the hate?
I don't get it. Superman saves the entire world from Kryptonians. Superman commits genocide to his entire race to save the Human race.
If that doesn't count as heroism, then nothing does. Superman killed his own race just so Humans could live.
>>71782997
Most people are idiots. If you don't believe that, you might be one of them.That's my opinion
>>71783220
>everyone but ME is stupid!!
>>71776941
There are people who genuinely think that this is good writing.
>>71783156
>Because two movies just came out proving that people don't care for that type of movie.
not true at all
mos was divisive in the internet but (i hate saying this) what did normies think?
at most it we can say it was divisive and leave it at that. many people loved that movie when it came out, and there's no reason to all of a sudden create a narrative that says everyone hated it from the onset.
and as far as your comment on "antithesis" i disagree strongly, on principle even
and the movie wasn't self serious at all. shit, there's always an irony between the that term and the people who make it
>>71783187
superman kills one guy because he has no way out
that's not genocide
if the last animal of a species attacked you and you killed it in self defense, no one would call you genocidal
>>71783345
fanboys might have loved it (i.e. You) but most people with a brain noticed the script and 3rd act were illogical trash and a insult to the art of cinema.
>>71783408
>illogical trash
why?
>>71783288
Pretty much. How's that self-deprecation going?
>>71782015
this is unironically correct.
three greatest capefilms ever made, all by the same director.
>>71783503
read the thread, this movie has been picked apart multiple times with no rebuttals of any value.
>>71776941
>>71778305
>>71778472
>>71778654
>>71783671
literally not a single substantive piece of criticism in any of those posts.
>>71783671
I don't know man, a lot of the posts in the thread seem to give very reasonable explanations of the problems those people had
>>71783694
wrong
>>71783709
they are all incorrect.
>>71783771
Nah, I've been looking through the thread and it really does seem like the opposite is true. There's a lot of memes but then the memes are rebutted by reasoned explanation.
>>71783853
other way around
>>71782679
>juxtaposition isn't an effective technique to make weak highs and lows seem more impressive by contrast
>the proof? a comic i liked
This is just sad.
>>71783386
You know what was really cool about that scene? Both zod and supes had spent the last half hour flying through glass, concrete, and steel like they were paper.
Then suddenly, because they're resting on a bit of floor, they can't fly anywhere anymore.
>>71784106
this bothered me
zod wasn't trying to fly away, he was trying to kill that family. why didn't superman just pick his ass up and throw him like he did 5 seconds before? they could have done the scene where he has to kill zod way better. like he has some human by the throat and super has to rush to him and snap his neck before he lands the killing blow.
>>71779436
>>71784215
or, even better, just go downwards a bit.
>>71783408
not even a fanboy, i haven't seen it in a long time and i think its an okay movie
oh wait this post is all buzzword posturing
>>71784027
>that's not what i said
>that's not a comic, its an animated movie made by the same people behind the series that anon was praising
fuck off
Some people think that spotting all the blunt, on-the-nose imagery makes them intelligent
These same people will make excuses for the bloated script, illogical characters and masturbatory action scenes.
>>71784215
don't think about it too hard
>>71784106 *blatantly wrong
>>71784215
seven minute fight
at that point they had made a point of showing how zod lost focus on the fight and just wanted to kill that family
and what would superman throwing zod accomplish other than extending the destruction
>>71775356
because it was very mediocre
There are people on /tv/ who think that Watchmen was a good adaption
If you point out all the shit that Snyder blatantly misunderstood, they'll try to steer the argument into being about the space squid
It was never about the space squid
>>71785433
not true at all
its the combination of reference, allusion, character, that creates meaning which some people like to look into
there is a bunch of memes around kino and whatever but no one takes them seriously other than the people who have a serious disliking for those
i know i got a hook in my mouth but there's too much misinformation from all sides to not respond
>>71785461
are you fucking kidding me you nigger, at what fucking point did superman even give half a shit about the destruction he caused, let alone trying to minimize it?
>>71785513
the thread isn't even about watchmen
>>71785550
if you put just half of your brain power into reading that post, you'd realize he's talking about how dumb the Snyder Defence Force is.
>>71785536
Its a frustrating movie. Snyder obviously has some cool ideas, but he gets held back by WB trying to force this movie to be 4 different stories, none of which were told particularly well.
This was a movie in need of a tight script and tighter editing. Snyder is good, but he's also very indulgent. Everything came together to make this movie so much worse than it should have been.
Pro-tip: when you find yourself writing entire essays just to make sense of the basic plot (not even the themes, just the fucking sequence of events), then your movie has failed as a vessel to convey those themes. Anybody can fill in the blanks if they really want to, but the fact that the questions need to be answered at all speaks to the weakness of the film. People aren't panning this movie because they're stupid. They're panning the movie because they aren't willing to make excuses for it.
>>71785731
>Pro-tip: when you find yourself writing entire essays just to make sense of the basic plot (not even the themes, just the fucking sequence of events), then your movie has failed as a vessel to convey those themes. Anybody can fill in the blanks if they really want to, but the fact that the questions need to be answered at all speaks to the weakness of the film. People aren't panning this movie because they're stupid. They're panning the movie because they aren't willing to make excuses for it.
>>71785607
yeah, nice, broad unfounded generalizations that are irrelevant to the thread
the majority of "pro" mos posts in this thread aren't even defending snyder but countering the claims about different scenes made in this thread
>>71776823
Meme enough and it becomes the truth. See: religions.
I'M THE OPEN THREAD MANIAC
>>71785731
>when you find yourself writing entire essays just to make sense of the basic plot
no one has done that so this contention is irrelevant in this instance
basic mos plot
>kryton self immolates, guy sends his son
>that son grows up and eventually uncovers truth about himself, inadvertently draws opposition
>working together with the government, he manages to end the tragedy
basic bvs plot
>the world is dealing with new paradigm
>lex orchestrates false flag to flame controversy around superman
>batman out of fear and paranoia obsession, wants to end this superior power
>lex nudges or otherwise baits people into being where he wants them to be
>batguy is able to see superman as an other
>lex in his obsession unleashes unhinged power
blah
>guy dies, bruce's faith in humanity restored through alien
i think bvs is okay anyway
>>71775356
Because it was a really, really terrible movie.
>>71785546
what are you even complaining about
the posts i responded to were wrong about the length of the fight, and then offered 'solutions' to that moment which don't do anything other than continue the fight
>>71775356
Because it's shit. Substantially worse than even BvS.
>>71775356
because of this mother fucker
MoS has some of the worst dialogue I've ever heard in a big-budget film. He single-handedly ruined it.
Of course, if Snyder knew what a bad script looked like, he could've had someone take another pass at it.
if not for Terrio, BvS would've been an even bigger disaster
>>71775566
Placebo effect
>>71776269
Geez, what sophisticated symbolism
>>71775566
Will you address the terrible direction?
>>71775356
Because its boring and the symbolism isn't meaningful, its just symbolism for the sake of symbolism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxV99PYX37c
it stinks
>>71775566
Really? Now Batman v Superman is considered "2deep4u"? How far have memes falled.
>>71781780
You can't see anything in any of these.
>>71786438
>no one has done that so this contention is irrelevant in this instance
Don't be such a fucking pedant. See >>71775566
>>71775356
where are the images explaining BvS?
>>71788666
>just to make sense of the basic plot
that pasta isn't about basic plot sense, but about looking into a thematic and structural arc
so no, no one has made essays to explain the basic plot
>>71779823
The trailers for Man of Steel were pretty great, too. The shot of his fist on the ice before he takes his first flight is beautiful.
>>71788948
character motivations are an element of the plot
here's some more
http://www.manofsteelanswers.com/lex-luthor-explained/
Nobody likes a pedant. How can you act like BvS's plot didn't leave people with questions? What about all the 40 fucking minutes of plot material that was cut from the theatrical release.
>>71789189
this thread was about mos, and i only included bvs in the other post to cover my bases
and shit, at a glance, all that shit is obvious from the movie. i don't see how this proves your point that's implying that lex's part of the story was so muddled to be absolutely incomprehensible
again, the theatrical cut did rely on seconds worth of dialogue at spots to connect logistics, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, although since it made a movie tight in a way it wasn't meant to be i think its fair to call that a flaw
i also don't get how you're calling me a pedant when i'm the one contending these small nitpicks and misconstrued meanings in general. none of this measures up to be the big deal people make it out to be
was bvs muddled to some extent? sure. did i have questions? not of the plot, and that sentiment is not uncommon
>>71789781
hey look, somebody watched the movie and had questions about the plot >>71789907
Do you think people are lying when they claim that BvS's plot left them with questions?
>>71790095
Not him but this guy must've been half asleep when he watched that movie. Most of his questions are cleared up in the movie itself, even in the theatrical version.
It sounds like he appreciated the movie anyways, though. Sounds like he would really benefit from a second viewing (specifically watching the director's cut).
>>71790165
>Most of his questions are cleared up in the movie itself, even in the theatrical version.
no they are not.
>>71790210
They are, though.
>>71790251
nope
>>71785546
https://youtu.be/giM4Nn5Xc2M
>>71790095
>somebody had question
yeah, and? so, what?
no, i don't
>parademons question: fair, it is a easter egg/tease after all
people get thrown in for a loop, and ask their nearest nerd. nothing wrong with that
>lex framing superman
how funny that he gets that lex is framing superman yet he's wondering why
"they have to see the fraud you are"
>bomb
he answers his own question, which already hard to take seriously given that the next like half hour deals with the effects of that scene
>doomsday/lex connection
win/win ideological situation for lex, as well as the pasta musings on lex's desire for power, if he creates the instrument of superman's death, then he overpowered him
"now god is good as dead"
i'm sure you won't mind me not addressing the rest
