Is this suppose to be an objective, raw, non-biased study of race relations in America, or what?
I kept waiting for the movie to refute Derek and tell us why racism, nationalism, and protecting one's family and property using a firearm is wrong but that never happens.
Are we suppose to just assume that since the characters are anti-multiculturalism that means they're objectively wrong? Kind of like arguments that are at their core "buT iTS twO ThOUsAnD SiXTEeN". Don't get me wrong, Derek curb stomping the guy was uncalled for and the neo-Nazis kids are presented as hatefilled and unlikable, but the movie does a better job at supporting Derek's views rather than the contrary.
>>71759783
>Derek curb stomping the guy was uncalled for
fuck off. that's my favorite scene of any movie i have ever seen
>>71759879
I didn't say it was a bad scene, I was just saying it's the only time in the movie where Derek is shown to "cross the line" so to speak.
>>71759783
Not to mention after Derek turns his ways and views around his little brother who was innocent of any crimes gets shot by a black kid.
What am I supposed to say about an ending like that?
>>71760008
it would be pretty cool if they did that to set it up for a sequel where he goes on a nigger killing rampage
>>71760008
The movie offers no arguments. It seems it just expects audiences to just to assume Derek and his friends are committing some sort of terrible thought crime.
>>71760008
>What am I supposed to say about an ending like that?
That there can never be understanding or peace.
>>71760008
>>71759783
Don't you guys get it? The point of the movie is to show that regardless of race, HATE is bad. Both blacks and whites are portrayed as hateful and ignorant, but at the same time there are blacks and whites who are also good people. The black kid killing Danny at the end was to show that "Hey look guys, black people are bad, white people are bad, black people and white people can be good too tho". The fact that this flew over your guys' heads kinda shows how legitimately racist you guys are, whether it be from a uberliberal "b b b but blacks cant do nothing mean!" point of view or from a /pol point of view.
>71760000
>>71760275
>HATE is bad
That is the gayest thing I have ever heard
>>71760327
Lol so is hate good? Are you that much of an edgy contrarian? Also it's the central message of the film, not necessarily my own opinion. (Although it is, because I'm a healthy human being)
>>71760275
some of us agree with you anon
>>71760354
Conflict is the basis of our existence.
>calls anon edgy contrarian
>loves Hitler
Well you walked into that one.
>>71760354
Not him but hate is a perfectly normal emotion and to say that it's not good is to deny a part of what human nature is.
>>71760354
I didn't say that hate is good just that this notion that we can stop the hate and get along and shit is gay. Rather that gayness is good or bad is up to you.
>>71760432
Rape is a perfectly normal urge in young men, it's just a part of their nature.
Hate is for cowardly children.
>>71759879
>It was morally right because it looks good in a movie scene
>>71760432
Killing another person for food is natural. That doesn't mean it's alright.
Although I don't think hate is always bad. I think the media trying to push everything as "mindless hate" is absolutely retarded.
>>71760467
>Hate is for cowardly children
I have no idea what you're even talking about anymore.
>>71760494
>Killing another person for food is natural
Cannibalism isn't good for the survival of the species though, don't be an idiot.
>>71760504
Name a situation where expressing hatred is a mature and productive thing to do.
>>71760504
I didn't mean cannibalism. I meant fighting over food, which is natural.
The only reason Derek survived prison is the funny black guy, his only real friend in there. That's the point where he realized it's all bullshit, what he stood for beforehand, and really the underlying point of the movie.
>>71760530
It sure helps to hate your enemy during a war. If you're a soldier who doesn't get to decide whether you want to be there or not, hating the enemy can help you feel better. It might not make much sense, but it helps.
>>71760533
Oh, well that's different. Fighting over food in a situation where it's actually necessary is alright though. I mean, if you're going to starve to death if you don't kill someone else, would you choose to starve to death?
>>71760599
Fighting over food when it's not necessary is also natural though.
Just being a terrible person in general is very natural.
That's why rape is natural, along with other things.
>>71760599
>hate can be helpful if you need to kill someone
I agree.
Hate has no place in the daily lives of people living in a civilized country. It's the quickest way to out yourself as a scape goating loser.
>>71760628
>when it's not necessary is also natural though
No it isn't, animals in nature avoid conflict whenever possible.
>Just being a terrible person in general is very natural
No it isn't, humans are a social species and it's natural to behave in a manner that's good for the group. It's how we evolved. Going against that is in fact unnatural.
>>71760628
>Just being a terrible person in general is very natural.
That's debatable.
>>71760647
I think it's a wonderful thought that there's still people so idealistic and naive as you, who have never been wronged in their lives in any meaningful way. Keep it up Candide!
>>71760647
This, I absolutely agree.
And I also completely subscribe to your view on the purpose of the film, spot on buddy.
>>71760327
Ouch!
>>71759783
>derek's dad gives a bunch of valid and important criticisms of affirmative action
>all of his points are invalidated because he says nigger
>>71760657
>man rapes woman in BC times
>another man tries to stop him
>man kills the man trying to stop him
>not natural
>>71760327
>i am 14
So how many of you expected this to be our future when we were all 9 or 10 years old?
I have fully came to the conclusion that I will never have children. I will spare them the agony of living in our society because I love them.
Blacks and Whites will never co-exist peacefully.
>>71760671
>something bad happened to me
>better spread my own bad feelings around with hatred and violence
>better perpetuate the cycle of negativity because I'm immature
Listen to yourself. I bet you are about to call me a hippy.
>>71760696
>two examples of antisocial behavior that go against the group
Yeah, that guy is getting executed, because rape and murder were crimes in BC times just like they are today.
>>71760690
>Derek's dad assumes that just because a book is about race and written by a black man it is automatically not a 'great,' book
>Derek's dad encourages his son to think while giving him a once sided interpretation of a scenario
>Derek's dad misleads his son so poorly it causes a chain of events that ends in needless death
>also he says nigger
>>71759783
It isn't hard OP
There are good people and there are shitty people.
The shitty people try to make us focus on race, leech welfare payments and waste their lives.
The good people advance humanity by working, treating others with decency and participating civilly in the democratic process.
Choose which you want to belong to.
>>71760721
h-heh me too, i'm never having children because s-society and that
>>71760721
>wahhh the world is so far removed from my backwards, conservatard prejudices and I'm literally too retarded and/or emotionally immature to at all re-evaluate my world view
wew lad, please don't even try to reproduce
>>71760742
Dude, calm down. I just told you it's a good thing you're able to judge people who have been through events you yourself have not. I think it's great that you can look down on everyone from your little cuddlebox.
>>71760742
>having a matured, objectivist world view
>on da 4chinzzz
Best get that shit off of here, Einstein.
>>71760749
>his life is literally endangered every day because every workforce needs to be a perfect representation of society
>blaming him for death for pointing out that by definition affirmative action causes lower standards
he shouldn't of assumed sisko was a bad teacher or the book wasn't as good but he had plenty of cause to think that way
>>71760764
>he thinks I haven't seen some shit
I went to public school in Chicago and I don't hate all black people. So yeah, I have the right to call you immature.
>>71760764
Give up, dude. He's reking you and you're pulling out all the tricks.
Is this the supreme KKKino?
>>71760813
>I have the right to call you immature
That would imply I hate someone.
>>71760793
>blaming him for death for pointing out that by definition affirmative action causes lower standards
But doesn't he though? Like if he hadn't complained about affirmative action, would Derek have turned out the way he did?
Also, those black firemen could have had other qualifications that supported allowing them to join despite their scores, it could have just been assumed affirmative action because of their race, and his own prejudice.
>>71759879
Edgy af bro
>>71760748
You're just calling anything other than peaceful behavior unnatural. Like if a human's actions are perfect examples to move the human race forward they aren't considered natural.
It's just extremely debatable.
>>71760678
Holy shit man, made my night with this post.
>>71760946
>anything other than peaceful behavior unnatural
No I'm not, I already said killing for food in a situation where it'd do that or starve is perfectly okay to me.
>extremely debatable
This is true. Maybe we should stop now.
>marxist producers reading the screenplay of Derek's dad making some good points about free capitalistic competition best-man-for-the-job America
>"Oh no! This sounds too reasonable. Better have him throw in some racial slurs and general no-no words so the audience knows he's wrong!"
>Scene where Derek is doing a tv news interview and making decent points about how blacks in America are parasitic because they live off of tax payers and commit the most crime
>"Oh no, what if the audience realizes that this accurately reflects reality? Hmmm.. better throw them off and have him mention Asians who have the opposite reputation. That way they realize Derek is actually unreasonable and fictitious and just hates all non-whites!"
>>71760990
>Maybe we should stop now.
Fair enough.
Modern societies are able to reach their heights only because civilised people intentionally forgo a whole number of natural impulses--rape, theft, responding to words with violence--which in turn allows them to co-exist much more peacefully than would otherwise be possible. In primitive tribal groups, who don't have any tradition of abstinence, there's almost always a set population limit (somewhere between 30 and 120), beyond which the group must fracture into two tribes lest they self-implode due to infighting. Yet here we are, nations of tens of millions or even hundreds of millions of people.
In some ways, the plot of this movie is a demonstration of what happens when people haven't moved beyond one of these impulses, that of in-group bias. They waste all their time hating each other, being attacked, and retaliating in turn (often against those who are only peripheral to the enemy group's ruffians, like Danny). It just creates an endless cycle of self-crippling thuggery.
Depending on where you live or if you're retarded, this point might not be super obvious, but it does becomes increasingly evident the second you step into a community that doesn't have this problem. There's no sense of fear. People aren't giving themselves shitty haircuts, or playing basketball in the middle of the workday. As an Australian, when you're taking a piss, the only people you honestly need to worry about shooting you in the back are autistic Americans who couldn't handle the banter.
Of course, that's not to say racism is not the sole reason these people have such shitty lives--poverty is probably a more important factor--but it is one of the reasons.
>>71761209
But if it's a book on race by a black man then it's a pretty good guess that it's liberal brainwashing bullshit. Hes not wrong just cause be said a no-no world (which is a liberal fantasy that right wing anti-socialist people actually talk like that in general).
>>71761339
>Assumptions are all I need to support my argument
>Never had that relative that casually drops nigger at the dinner table
>>71760758
>>>/lgbt/
ask me how I know you aren't a man
That scene where Norton is at the party and his crazy ex-if starts yelling "HE'S A FUCKING NIGGER LOVER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER." makes me crack up every time
>>71761336
You miss the point of the thread. Yes, everyone understands the surface message of the movie is hate is a vicious cycle.
But the movie uses stupid unrealistic strawmans in order to invalidate the character's conservative nationalist ideals. Instead of explaining why they are wrong, the movie just assumes the person watching is already a hyper liberal and already with them.
>>71761415
I'm sure if it were real life the he would have asked for Derek to paraphrase the book for him then judge it. But since the people who made this movie are leftist they made the dad seem arrogant and unwilling.
And,
>person says no-no word at dinner table
Omg :( r they waycis?
>>71761477
I think everyone pointing out here that Derek's dad had a reasonable argument is evidence the movie didn't rely on strawmen. If the use of the word nigger casually at a dinner table feels suspect then you're looking at things the wrong way. Yes, racist people say nigger, even if they're firemen, even if they're nice guys, they can still drop the word nigger casually. If the neonazis feel like strawmen, it's a movie about neonazis, you go hunt down some skinheads and see how reasonable they really are. They're white trash.
>>71761153
>B-But don't point out that white people are on welfare more than any other race, that's because there's more of them! Now let me go completely against myself by posting a statistic that claims black people are only 12 of the population and do more crime
>>71759783
MY EYES HAVE SEEN THE GLORY OF THE TRAMPLING AT THE ZOO
>>71761535
Here's your (you). Be at peace and get some sleep.
>>71759783
Well what I took from it was that both races had their shitskins the Neo Nazis that rape their own and the Niggers that kill a kid for a stupid reason there was still Dereks Family a good family torn apart by the Neo Nazis that "protect" them but they smoke "nigger drugs" have destructive partys and act just as degenerate as the Niggers and then comes along a decent black man who probably worked hard to get where he was and had a white girlfriend you then see the Neo nazi's Chimp out.
Nigger's were Uncivilised
All Blacks =/= Nigger
NeoNazi's were Uncivilised
All Whites =/= NeoNazi's
It was pretty Simple.
>>71760008
>What am I supposed to say about an ending like that?
Es ist Zeit für Reich.
>>71761560
>I think everyone pointing out here that Derek's dad had a reasonable argument is evidence the movie didn't rely on strawmen.
But the movie doesn't want you to think that Derek's dad has a good point. They try to invalidate the dad's ideas by injecting some extra arrogant dialogue to paint the dad as a liberal wet dream waycis.
>>71761610
The white supremacist group in the movie are without a doubt better than the gang banging blacks in the movie.
Just because they don't dream of a multiculturilist America doesn't make them white trash. Other than the curb stomp they were completely in their own right through out the movie.
>>71761655
He's telling him not to listen to his teacher, of course he's being arrogant, that's not extra, and that doesn't invalidate what he say's, it's the whole point of his argument. Be suspicious, be critical, especially of niggers. This suspicion causes Derek to go to jail, and Danny to get shot. How much more reasonably do you want him to say it that this doesn't happen?
This movie was a thinly veiled 'we are all the same' ploy by the Jews. To be fair the moral of the story can be true in some instances. In reality statistics show that brown people commit a disproportionate amount of crime compared to white and Asian counterparts. The narrative is unrealistic in a castle state. Since the men at his house were committing a forcible felony, he would be within his right to kill them (in non-libtard states). The problem exists from the curb stomp, that is no longer defense. he should have shot them all to death before his autism made him do the hokey pokey on Jerome's watermelon crusher.
I think the point that a reasonable person takes away from this movie is that neo nazis are just as bad as niggers. The whole 'need for the neo nazi club' was to protect a middle class white family from niggers, but ironically was what ultimately destroyed it.
I can also confirm people will do anything for hard drugs, and the actions depicted that happened to nazi boy could very well happen. Heroine makes people do insane shit. As far as it happening commonly, probably not.
>TL;DR People are fucking terrible
>>71761763
Derek went to jail because he got hot headed and used excessive force when protecting his family and property. Using the gun to shoot the armed perpetrators? Perfectly fine. Brutally curb stomping one of them? Jail sentence.
His father's good guidance didn't lead go any of incident, it was his temper. But other than that he did the right thing and kept his family safe.
>>71761566
I'm not even sure what side you are on
>>71761778
>but ironically was what ultimately destroyed it.
But the question is: is this realistic? Would of whites with the simple common interest in looking out for other whites and their famalies really end up imploding in practice? And is making such a group really such a bad thing?
>>71761475
Love that entire scene. Stacy Keach is great as Cam.
>>71761923
>Would of whites
group of*
>>71761723
Did you forget the scene in the supermarket?
>>71761610
>All Blacks =/= Nigger
no just most of em
>>71760008
Cycle of violence, pretty obvious mate.
>>71761623
Rache, you pleb.
>>71762339
he meant Reich as in Third Reich time...you fucking newfag...
>>71761923
I don't know. I do know that extremists of any flavor are usually bad. If you want to resist the violent sub-culture of brown people, use the current infrastructure of police and legal systems. You aren't going to gain anything by acting like a nigger yourself. You can hopefully see how that would negatively perpetuate the white paradigm. I am proud to be a white person, however the neo nazi groups are not a reflection of my beliefs. If anything we should hold ourselves to a higher standard, and with groups like this we see the complete opposite.
>>71762339
>Cycle of violence, pretty obvious mate.
this is the reality
>that dinner table scene
based
>>71762448
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMVysV1lp98
>>71762274
I mean considering most of them live in Ghettos yeah sure but White Trailer Trash and Ghetto Mexicans are just as bad
>>71762466
>White Trailer Trash and Ghetto Mexicans are just as bad
Do you really think that?
>>71762448
Fucking nigger bullshit
>>71762458
>perfectly reasonable and civil conversation
>suddenly NIGGER BULLSHIT XD AREN'T NIGGERS INFERIOR TO US PURE ARYANS
Eugh.
>>71762618
That's the frustrating part to me. There are several valid racist points, and it is diluted in the cesspool of 'huurrr derr dem damn niggers and there nigger whait powah white powah!'
>>71759879
found the guy whose gf got fucked by a black dude
>>71760275
yea most people on this board are on the spectrum. you are right on your analysis though.
>>71760275
Yeah well except it all started with a black guy killing dereks dad and another one trying to steal his dads car.
Did anyone NOT hate the black kid at the end? Yeah you lost your brother but whos fault was that really?
>>71759783
a movie supports the anti-racist side
>FUCKING LIBERAL MEDIA JEWS AGENDA
a movie abstains from judging sides
>FUCKING LIBERAL MEDIA JEWS AGENDA
Tum/pol/er is cancer.
Triggered effeminate snowflakes playing the victim.
>>71760008
Originally Derek was supposed to shave his head again after John Connor got killed but Edward Norton refused. The idea was that it was showing the cycle of violence [reality] but instead I guess it came off as justifying neonazism.
I think the idea of the film is to get you to sympathize with Derek even though you know that you're not supposed to. It's challenging normal socially acceptable behaviour within the framework of "well, WE all know this is wrong, but this is why THE CHARACTER thinks this way and is not just some irrational racist." It shows that even a normal person can become a neonazi.
So yes there is a presumption that we all know what they're doing/believing is wrong. I don't think any actual neonazi would come out of watching American History X thinking that it glorifies his/her lifestyle though. They'd probably think "pfft, I'm not being manipulated, these are MY OWN thoughts that I came up with all by myself!"
>>71760327
>>71759783
>>71759879
>>71760008
>>71760061
>>71760690
>>71760721
>>71760749
>>71760764
>>71761153
>>71761339
>>71761575
>>71761778
>>71762458
>>71762554
>>71762618
Looking forward to the 10th grade this Autumn anons?
>>71762860
What the hell is the 10th grade? Grade school ends at 9.
>>71762860
You quoted a ton of people with apposing views.
What are you even trying to say
>>71762909
He's saying give me (You)s.
>>71759783
As the movie progresses a divide grows between his desire to solve the problems in life that motivated him to turn to extremism and the extremist movement itself, he comes to realize that the real world is nebulous and complicated and his black and white view of the world was never going to give him any real answers.
The movie is not an assault on racism specifically, it could equally apply to islamic extremists or the black panthers.
>>71762860
I'm a graduate student... The semester already started unfortunately... You are making no sense the people you quoted have conflicting opinions.
>>71762938
This is accurate
>>71762909
I am saying this for the same reason why 40% of Trump's twitter followers aren't of age to vote (http://www.forbes.com/sites/abigailtracy/2015/08/14/study-less-than-40-of-donald-trumps-social-audience-is-eligible-to-vote/#781d4c6072a5), almost everyone with their "apposting views" you speak of tend to be young white males
>>71762978
You say "white male" like it's something unspeakable to be.
>>71763028
Unfortunately it seems that way in popular culture. Like always ignore the retards.
>>71762978
I said "apposing", not apposting.
I still don't know what you're doing, but okay.
>>71762770
I find it ridiculous that this movie does neonazi's the courtesy of expressing their position with intellectual honesty, but they still paint it as a work of propaganda because the director is a jew. Most online philosophers are unable to express their opponent's position without resorting to extreme paraphrasing or even straw man tactics. Why neonazis believe their position is deliberately misconstrued when derek is made to be the smartest character in the entire movie, I have no idea.
>>71763199
>smartest character in the entire movie
What about Mr. two doctorates?
>>71762978
>tend to be young white males
So what, their opinions aren't valid?
>>71763214
He was probably meant to be a sage type character but he didn't seem as sharp as derek, just more mature.
>>71762860
>>71761477
The primary evidence presented against being a nationalist is NOT him using the word nigger. It's all the fall-back that happens to his followers as a result of their adopting his beliefs.
The nationalist leader in this movie is a prototypical charlatan and you will find people like him at the forefront of every ideological movement, from fascism to communism. Being fairly intelligent/skilled in the art of rhetoric, these people are excellent at picking and choosing evidence, and if you're not informed on the issue enough to be aware of the counterpoints or you're already a believer, they do in fact sound quite convincing.
That he's never met by anyone who runs through his argumentation point by point and discounts it, that is no way an incrimination against the film. In real life, that is generally how it plays out. Most of their opponents _cannot_ argue as well as them. Moreover, they actively avoid meeting those who can; they confine themselves to communities of like-minded thinkers, they do not attempt to seek contradicting evidence, and anyone who might bring it is shouted down or completely dismissed before they even open their mouth.
>>71763115
fuck off stupid nigger, if it werent for whites you monkeys wouldnt even be able to operate a keyboard because youd be in africa spearchugging zebrahs.
>>71763455
b8 or aspie
>>71759783
Whole point of the movie was to show that ignorance makes people think its about race and that one race is good or bad but in actuality there are good and bad people in all races and blind hate is the real enemy. He realizes this by becoming unexpectedly friends with a black dude when he thought they were all scum. And at the same time the black dude at the end shows the other end of the stick. Good people vs bad people, little to do with skin color. Thats the whole point and the fact they have to spell it out for you to understand shows you didn't really understand the movie.
>>71763455
DUDE RACISM LMAO
>>71762521
If they weren't they would stop being poor.
How is American history VII?
>>71762466
>but White Trailer Trash and Ghetto Mexicans are just as bad
No, they really aren't.
>>71763741
Yeah they really are, same shit different flavor of nigger.
>>71763741
>defending scum of the earth
why would you do this? are youthe people's champion?
