What do you think the population of Westeros is?
Keep in mind from the Wall to Dorne is about 3,000 miles (~4,800 km).
Total population or taxpaying population? Hill savages are pretty much the equivalent of wildlings, they just live south of the wall. While we've seen the ones from the Eyrie pretty much every land has them to some degree.
>>71677570
That's like, stupidly big.
>>71677570
~2 million
>>71677710
why
>>71677635
Westerosi citizens (for lack of a better term), so no savages.
>>71677710
The placement and shape of Essos makes it even worse
>>71677710
GRRM is a genius
>>71677642
Rome was about that big at it's zenith.
>>71677570
Ok, so I played the Telltale game and there is something I didn't think about then that I have realized now. Rodrick Forrester should have died on the way back from The Twins from thirst alone, regardless of his wounds. Ironrath, while not on this map, is located just to the East of Deepwood Motte. It would have taken a rickety wagon on the Kingsroad well over a week to make that journey.
>>71677710
Its retarded indeed. The wall to dorne is about the same as London to Lagos. The mountainous region of the vale would be about the size of Algeria.
>>71677570
>Banefort
Reach: ~5-6 million
Riverlands: ~3-4 million
North: ~2-3 million
Crownlands: ~2 Million
Westlands: ~1.5-2 million
Stormlands & Vale: ~1 million
Iron Islands: ~600,000
Dorne: ~500,000
Total: ~15.6 - 19.1 Million
>>71677690
That's a little low considering 200,000+ soldiers were mobilized during the war of the 5 kings.10% population mobilization is unheard of.
>>71677819
He was sated on the blood of his allies
>>71677884
>6mil
oy vey
>>71677852
Westeros is a huge area but mostly forested/barren and unpopulated. The story goes into how few people live on such a large landmass in the books.
It's basically Medieval England in Mongolia.
>>71677819
It rained on the way, he drank rain... Seriously why are you even thinking about retarded things.
>literally a big continent
>people travel by horse beetween episodes lie its nothing
>>71677781
>lannister
>lancaster
>stark
>york
Holy fucking shit we may be on to something here.
>>71677910
Fuck off neckbeard
>>71677987
It takes Robert like 2 months to travel from KL to Winterfell in the books.
>>71677954
Dont know about the books but those distances make no sense in the context of the show. An UK sized landmass seems about right.
>>71678035
>He thinks god doesn't have him even though he made him a neckbeard
>>71677884
Why is dorne so unpopu?
>>71678044
Not really. Westeros has everything from frozen tundra to sahara-style desert on the same landmass. It would have to be much larger to have this kind of geography.
>>71677570
Who cares
Nuke it
>>71677733
The distances involved mean that it would take weeks just to travel from King's Landing to Harrenhall.
![I2RgM3g[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/Gdmbk0m.jpg "I2RgM3g[1].png")
>>71677570
>>71678103
And thats why the map is retarded.
>>71677733
not who you're replying to but i hate maps that are clearly designed to fill a rectangular piece of paper
also the rivers are way too big and often don't come and go from places that make sense. like the river at Tumbleton going all the way to the Sunset Sea instead of Blackwater bay. same for the river at Greywater Watch
The mountain ranges also don't make much sense if this is a continent sized piece of land
>>71678132
It does, in the books. Like half of book 2 has Tywin marching from Harrenhall to King's Landing while everything else is going down.
>>71677570
Dorne can raise 15-25k men, the Reach 100k, Westerlands 45k, 25-35k from the storm lands, 15-25k from the Vale, 10-20k from the Crownlands, 15-25k from the Iron Isles, and 20k from the North. I'm on mobile, so if someone could total those and make that a representation of 1-3% of the total population, we would have roughly our number of inhabitants.
>>71678168
>north america
>>71678039
Holy fuck how is the 7 kingdoms even governable with that kind of distance pre-telegraph? Rome had an established complex bureaucracy and the Mediterranean so they could use ships to move faster to every corner of the empire. And even then Rome didn't last as a united empire that size past a couple centuries. Westerose was a united nation for far longer and only now is there a huge problem with it staying united.
>They use birds to send messages
So did people in real life. Problem is you have to get the birds back after you sent them. Continuous messaging during a war would exhaust your entire supply of birds in a week, then you are stuck with horse messengers. An entire army could be slaughtered and the capitol won't hear about it for months. Hell the capitol could get conquered and the armies wouldn't have heard about it until its too late.
>>71678262
Fuck, I forgot 15-20k in the Riverlands. Everyone forgets about the Riverlands.
>>71678333
because the kingdoms are extremely autonomous
>>71677748
this so much
>>71678333
Littlefinger can fly anywhere
>>71678317
It takes you 2 days on horseback from NY to Seatle?
>>71677884
>dorne: 500,000
And not a penis to be found. I'm breaking out the anti chafing cream and viagra lads, I'm going to show these ethnic sluts how to really stab things
>>71677570
This geography doesn't make sense. With mountains on the coastal areas, the middle interior should be dry deserts if the scale is as claimed. At the technological !notmedieval era, one would also expect there to be more forest cover. The placement of major settlements at upriver lcations instead of at the estuary is also illogical and impractical at the tech level. And why is there a lush forest just across the Frozen shore. The climate zones at the given scale, assuming the 4800 km from top to bottom, is not realistic (the Australian continent is only 3600 km top to bottom). I know the map is basically inverted UK but it is 3 times the size of the UK. A landmass of that size should have mountains in the middle and flat areas on the sides, somewhat like the Italian Peninsula. In short, the Fat One is a hack and muh realizm.
>>71678672
Planetos is smaller but denser than Earth
>>71678699
It also has an extreme climate where winters can last for years. Let's face it there should not be any greenery on that planet or even human life with that fucked up a climate.
>>71678699
hold up
the planet is called fucking Planetos?
>>71678887
No, his dumbass fans call it that but no.
>>71678756
Humans survived several ice ages
>>71678887
It's made up given the lazy continent naming system George had. I'm not sure there's an actual word for the planet
>>71678915
>>71678946
oh ok
THE KNOWN WORLD
>>71678887
There is no name for their planet because the people living on it are not advanced enought to understand the concept of planets. They just call it the world.
>>71678946
>Humans survived several ice ages
By being nomads and living off of animals. If Westerose was to be realistic everyone living north of King's landing (where it actually gets cold) would be like the Wildlings (eskimos) or Dothraki (mongols/huns/scythians/turks/kazaks/cumans/kossacks/etc) and no permanent settlements would exist.
>>71679099
it's dumb and I hate it
>>71679143
yeah but their winters don't typically last hundreds of years like a real Ice Age. Cultures can easily survive 10-15 year periods of winter, and potentially ones that last decades.
>>71679099
why are people from Westeros white and people from Easteros are darker and even black when it's all roughly the same lattitude?
>>71679099
>tfw no westeros skyrim
>>71679238
this happened in real life with inuits as compared to scandinavians, diet makes the difference. If you can get vitamin D through your diet, there's no advantage to losing pigmented skin.
>>71678001
He based a number of things in the books on real events in Europe. The Red Wedding was a real thing just with a different name circumstances.
Also, can anyone more versed in the books explain to me the Doom of Valyria? I remember reading a chapter years ago from Tyrion where he looks upon it's coast but it's "cursed" and no one goes there. Is there just an entire continent that is abandoned with decaying cities and shit where no one goes? What exactly was the "Doom", and why is it considered cursed? Are there actual monsters there, and what is the basis historically of Valyria? Is it Rome?
>>71679238
>Race
>Latitude
What
Because native north Americans and Siberians are white, right
And there's whites in the southern hemisphere too...
>>71679099
tarth's a big islandthe island below The Narrow Sea text
>>71679238
Why were Native Americans redish and Eurpeans white when they are on the same lattitude?
Also the black people are from Sothoryos and all the ones you see in the show are either slaves or sailors/explorers/merchants.
>>71679361
Valyria was like a magi-tech version of Rome. They had dragons and wizards, and concrete.
Everything was going well until one day they exploded. Literally their country went kaboom and left behind that burnt section in Easterose you see on the map. The survives of the Doom of Valyria then took what they had left and conquered Westerose, becoming the Targarean dynasty.
>>71677884
>Dorne
>500,000
Good lord what a pathetic retarded fuck you are...
>>71679361
he built so many references from everywhere.
doom of valyria = chernobyl
hound & salsa = beauty and beast
mountain = frankenstein
hadrian wall = the wall
dragons = nuclear weapons
jamie lanister = götz von berlichingen
>>71678164
>building a cstle over a mountain now means that the castle is as tall as the mountain
Wow, retardness at work.
>>71679541
So what's left of it just sits there and no one ever goes there out of fear of whatever caused it to go boom?
There could be stockpiles of Valyrian weapons or some shit there.
>>71679541
>Everything was going well until one day they exploded. Literally their country went kaboom and left behind that burnt section in Easterose you see on the map
That's not at all comparable to the 'fall' of the Roman Empire though.
>>71678076
Because it's mostly a desert. Think of it as Saudi Arabia, only times bigger and without oil which makes it poor as fuck.
>>71679359
>>71679404
but inuits/scandinavians look different because of their different routes from Africa to get there. I'm just trying to think where humans would have originated from in this world to spread and become all the races. But i guess it's about as petty as wondering why the humans in this world evolved from monkeys in the exact way we did on earth
I don't even watch Big Bang Thrones or whatever so maybe they cover it.
>>71679238
They are white.
It's just slaver bays people who are at the same or even power latitude than Dorne who are darker, and the niggers are from the summer islands which are a less more to the south if you look at the map.
>>71678333
The Romans and Mongolians somehow managed. Not to mention it's an extremely feudal society. Also the entire show is about how completely ungovernable the 7 kingdoms are.
>>71679675
I should also add the reason the remains of Valyria are cursed is because of all the magic the Valyrians had. A magic powered air-conditioner is all fine and safe until the mages that maintained them get exploded with the devices leaving behind alot of random magic.
Yes there is alot of loot but also alot of things left behind that could murder you in a thousand different ways that have been forgotten to history.
>>71679692
Well the fat fuck combined Rome with Atlantis.
>>71679099
>it's literally just England and Europe
>>71679675
Tyrion's favourite uncle went there to reclaim the Lannister's valyrian sword, or to get a new one. Didn't come back. The whole place is filled with noxious gases and fogs, making any expedition there dangerous because it's really easy to run aground or wreck your boat and get stuck, or get smothered to death.I still hope that book-Tyrion will find out that his uncle is/was alive and rich as fuck somewhere in Essos, having stayed there because he was a third son and so really had no reason to go back, and that he got rich selling Valyrian artefacts to assholes like Euron.
>>71679675
Whats left of Valyria is magically irradiated or some shit. There's also still magic fires burning and the ground is unstable, so going there is a death sentence. That's why Euron looks like such a cool guy for returning from there with a bunch of swag.
>>71679786
Roman and Mongolian empires only lasted like that for a couple centuries, Westerose was a united kingdom for far longer. Also Westerose doesn't have the things both Rome and Mongolia had to govern those empires.
>>71679099
>Land of the Shrykes
>Cannibal Sands
>Cities of the Bloodless Men
>the Five Forts
>Bonetown
>City of the Winged Men
>the books or show will never visit these places
>>71679879
What things doesn't it have that the Romans and Mongolians did? Also Westeros was only united for about 300 years, by a person with dragons that could roast whole cities.
>>71677570
The Roman Empire was of similar geographic dispersion and contained about 50-70 million people at its height.
>>71679879
>Westerose was a united kingdom for far longer.
They had dragons, letting the ruler send off his family members to check up on the kingdom with the speed of a bird, or even faster. Before that the whole landmass WAS split up between a hundred different kingdoms(not all of them recognised by the bigger ones), and after the dragons died off the kingdom started its descent into splitting up into multiple kingdoms again. That's literally what we're witnessing.
>>71679214
Of course they can. Surviving a decades long winter where ice monsters riding 8 foot tall giant spiders that can summon the dead to attack is different issue.
>>71679935
no im pretty sure jon will take dany to Bonetown at some point
>>71678001
>Targaryan
>Tudor
>>71679972
The Romans had a unified sense of national identity where the people actually wanted the country to succeed not just their local problems, a complex and sophisticated bureaucracy fueled by a very large number of literate individuals, and complete control of the Mediterranean to move from one end to the other quickly and safely.
Mongolia had the Chinese bureaucratic system which was like the Roman one if not better in some respects, and a very large number of steppe horses for transport.
>>71679972
>>71680083
Those dragons died so long ago no one left alive has seen them and the only reason anyone thinks they were real is because of their bones and the remains of their handy work. The 7 kingdoms should have fractured long ago.
>>71680139
They're literally a one-hit-kill with a dragonglass weapon. The only reason humans ever got killed by them was because the Children wanted them to die off and so didn't borrow them any dragonglass. As soon as the Others started making corpses walk about to kill off the Children as well they just gave the humans some dragonglass arrow-heads and away they went.
>>71680256
Dragonglass is literally obsidian. It is found where there was volcanic activity. Stannis' Castle had a crap ton under it because it was built on top of a dead volcano. He has his people back home mine the stuff when he finds out about the walkers.
>>71680256
The Others are. Their zombies aren't, and we don't know what else they have.
If they attacked in the middle of a white out blizzard they'd fuck shit up, m8y.
I'm not saying they're invincible, but it changes shit when they come marching in with the ice age.
>>71679879
The Holy Roman Empire is a better equivalent. It lasted about a thousand years.
>>71680212
The people in Westeros are "unified" by the winters. Nobody wants to rock the boat when you've only got 5-6 years of spring/summer/autumn of collecting and storing as much food as possible to survive the 5-6 years of winter. It took a personal insult from the ruling party to start off Robert's rebellion, and then again to start off Robb's rebellion/proclamation as King in The North. And even that was portrayed as Robb making a mistake because he was too weak to rule his Northmen without letting them think they were making him king. He didn't want to become king in the north, because ultimately it makes things more dangerous for his kingdom while giving absolutely no benefits. The North is already as free as they could like, really, precisely because King's Landing IS so far away.
>>71680364
Stannis started mining dragonglass AFTER he was told about the Other's vulnerability. The Children obviously didn't tell humans about the vulnerability until they needed to make a pact for survival, and you wouldn't exactly think to try it.
>>71680471
The last time the Others came marching there were less humans about/less spread out and they'd just figured out this whole raising-the-dead thing, so I suspect that the armies of the dead were smaller the first time around. Now they've just been biding their time raising as much of the wildling dead as they could to make an army.
>>71677570
It's fucking whacky that Arya traveled from Braavos to The Twins in one episode
I mean sure, her journey may have been uneventful, and there's nothing to say the timelines of all the different characters are entirely concurrent, but fuck, ordinarily they'd dedicate at least half a season to a journey that far, probably more
>>71680770
You'll notice alot of characters and scenes in general are just teleporting around with no set up. It was a big issue with S5 and now it's just the usual in S6. Big reason as to why the quality has also gone to absolute shit
So, uh, how come nobody's heard about Dany amassing a huge army and getting ships to transport her army across the sea to Westeros?
Bobby B found out when she was just marrying a fucking horselord, for god's sake. You'd figure anyone with a ship docking in a Westerosi port would try to get some gold by telling a noble the news about the Targ lady conquering cities.
>>71680962
They don't have the kind of contacts they had with Varys on the council.
>>71680962
Bobby B had a kingdom at peace at full strength
Now it's all in massive disarray. Theres nothing they can do
>>71678672
Would the books actually be better if George had to do this shit?
>>71681084
>>71681103
Regular sailor gossip in every port trading with Essos would be enough, though. You don't need some orphan child running about the queen's house to have these kinds of news spread.
>>71678073
>have
Literally what did he mean by this?
>>71679099
Wtf... I hate GoT now!
>>71680212
It's not completely implausible, assuming the Targaryen's had sufficient strength and the right allies they could plausibly rule for 3 centuries.
lmao BRUH
y'all argue bout the dumbest shit
who cares
>>71677570
It's hard to say, The North and The Vale are pretty sparsely populated and that is about half of the continent
The Riverlands obviously had a serious loss of population after any war as they're right in the heart of everything
The Reach or The Westerlands have many many people though
>>71678001
>>71679617
>>71679361
He's never hidden the fact that most of the major plot points, and settings are reworked versions of something from our own history.
>>71681940
nobody asked your opinion nigger
>>71678484
It takes months on horseback to get from Dorne to the North and that's if you take the Kingsroad which is a direct line through the centre of the continent
>>71679099
Yfw Wyverns exist in sothyros, yfw dinosaurs live there too.
What is north of north of the wall?
>>71680176
Targs are the Normans that conquered England.
>>71679735
Dorne is actually one of the richest territories.
>>71681736
the tyrells were pretty loyal and had control of a significant amount of agricultural land so they might have used that as a way to keep everyone happy during winter
>>71679099
is there something east of Asshai? what's west of Westeros?, has someone ever sailed past The Lands of always winter? is there perpetual summer south of Valirya?
hell the world has lot's of potential for self contained stories outside of the westerosi drama... the Fat man should get people to write shit outside of the Westerosi drama
>>71679361
>The Red Wedding was a real thing just with a different name circumstances
What was it?
>>71682885
>the Fat man should get people to write shit outside of the Westerosi drama
All the potential for weird Vernes+++ fantastic shit and yet we get pseudo-medieval fantashit with dragons and zombies. Fuck, audiences are faggots.
>>71682998
Two Scottish events called the Black Dinner and the Glencoe Massacre respectively.
>>71677570
How many people live in the big cities? Shouldn't be that hard to extrapolate with that info.
>>71683191
No more than a million, probably closer 700,000. Going at Medieval rates of urbanization that's like 70 million or so.
>>71677852
Lagos, Portugal or Lagos, Nigeria?
>>71683232
You might be overinflating the numbers. Proportion is vaguely the same (1%) but for instance Venice had 100,000 by 1500 off of Italy's 11,000,000. England only had 2,5 mil at that same time. The overall number should be anywhere between 10 mil and a max at around 40.
>>71683560
London at that time was max 40,000
>>71680962
Bobby B had competent spymasters and had the kingdom at peace (with some rebellions here and there like the Greyjoy one) so it was at full strength, it wasn't until Cersei fucked everything up with the assasination of both Jon Arryn, Ned Stark and Bobby himself that everything went to shit and made it ripe for Daenerys to travel and fuck everyone in the ass
>>71677642
no it isnt
there was a blog I saw where they actually estimated the size of the GOT world. Its actually smaller than earth.
>>71677570
What's your favourite shit GRRM place name?
Mine has got to be Oldtown, creatively named beacause it is an old town
>>71683736
>ned stark
>assassinated
lel
>>71682322
>>71678333
Have you watched the show or read the book? The 7 kingdoms are essentially autonomous and are constantly fighting each other.
>>71683802
figure of speech, he was killed nevertheless which prompted Robb Stark's rebellion
>>71679238
People from Qarth and the Free cities and Asaih are white.
Slavers bay seems very Arab/Aztec hybrid, The Dothraki are Like mongols cultural but look Arabic as well.
>>71679238
Yes, and of course no Asians
>>71678262
In TWoW it states Dorn can raise 50k
>>71683656
I read 20-something-k which is why I reckon the minimum should be pretty low, if it is in fact based off of the british isles. Which makes the 3000 mile top-to-bottom assertion completely idiotic. 3000 miles is Lisbon to Moscow plus another 500 miles.
>>71680475
>>71684181
It might be based on Britain in terms of politics, but if you take the wall's length as given (100 leagues-300 miles) then Westeros is 3000 miles long. There is the possibility a Westerosi League isn't the same as one of ours, but as it stands that's the distance.
>>71684646
Dover to Glasgow, you got ~400m, Ireland top to bottom, ~300m, so ideally ~700 miles between the wall and the bottom. If your proportions are correct, the number's population's going to balloon to between 45 and 170 million. That seems exaggerated, considering the show at least. Any of the books come with illustrations of any sort?
>>71677781
Scots confirmed for being wildling savages.
>>71677884
Dorne has the most sex and fights the least wars.
>>71679736
I'm not entirely sure but I think there are multiple types of men.
Like the first men (or the northmen) are different from the Andals (southerners) could have my shit mixed up probably do and I don't care.
Also niggers and wasps share common ancestors but they are two genetically different species.
>>71684813
Well King's Landing is huge by Medieval standards (350,000-500,000), and there are at least 4 cities upwards of 50,000. That basically means you have at least 10x the population of Medieval GB.
>>71677895
Agreed that's low
But the Confederacy had like 20% of its population mobilized so it is possible during a total war
>>71685270
Industrial =/= Medieval. No such thing as total war really.
>>71679879
It's only been ~300 years, the seven kingdoms were only united by Aegon the Conqueror
The series starts around like 280 AL
>>71685250
You're way off the mark. 1500 England and Wales (as in, not medieval anymore) had a population of about 3 mil, of which only 10% or less were Welsh. Ireland has estimates between 1 and 2 million around the same time. That's 5 million total. "Massive medieval cities" didn't house 350,000 people, they housed 1/3 that much at best. London had less than 50,000 in the early 1500's, for instance.
>>71683154
I'd heard of the Black Dinner. Not the Glenco Massacre, which is not really the same as the hosted were the ones doing the killing.
But
>The Mad Men episode "Time & Life" references the massacre when headmaster Bruce MacDonald in the year 1970 still holds a grudge against Pete Campbell.
I NEVER fucking understood that scene until just now and it's by complete coincidence.
>>71683560
Athen at its high was between 15000 to 25000.
>>71683742
I'd say earth is pretty big, all things considered. I'm sure a good few people assume Westeros is roughly Britain-sized.
>>71684102
One of the sand sneks is asian.
>>71683736
>implying Cersei assassinated Jon Arryn
>implying she was behind Ned Stark's death
>>71684102
>>71683154
also the Dunoon Massacre when the Clan Lamont treated with the Clan Cambell and the Cambells ended up murdering all of the Lamonts thus establishing themselves as the main powerhouse in the Argylls
> one tree had 70 corpses hanging from it's branches
>>71687832
That's a big tree.
>>71677884
>Vale: ~1 million
But no. The Vale is probably very heavily populated.
