What are some intelligent criticisms for the UC?
Anything you agree with
>>71546003
I guess I didn't dig the Lex Luthor unstable motive. I wished he were more like in his introduction scene manipulating that man into giving him access to the ship and zods body.
>>71546003
If someone gives valid criticism, it'll just get ignored in favor of perpetuating the pretense that this film is great. Why bother anymore?
>>71546044
http://www.manofsteelanswers.com/lex-luthor-explained/
>>71546003
Smartest criticism I've found.
see >>71462276
>>71546044
Lex's motive for what?
>>71546082
More like the other way around.
>>71546274
Tell me...
Do you bleed?
>>71546003
the central conceit of bvs is about "falling" and the process through which characters rise up again.
top of my head
you'd have to argue that the ideas aren't seen through to the end.
argue that the characters aren't depicted in this lens
argue that scenes aren't constructed in ways that lead to definitive contributions to the themes
>>71546356
4chan is telling my i'm posting spam so i can't elaborate. sorry
>>71546343
>>71546356
>>71546597
What did they mean by this?
it's boring. good movies cant be boring.
>>71546704
boring is subjective
I didn't find it boring, so does that make it a good movie?
>>71546704
>BvS
>boring
Is this a 'things plebs say' thread?
>>71546003
Wayyyyyyyyyyyy too many handheld close-ups.
It's maddening.
>>71546774
are there really people that unironically like this steaming piece of shit?
>>71546356
the title sequence presents its thesis in the form of bruce's dream after which the movie presents the context in which the ideas of the thesis are to be explored; black zero. to criticize the movie, you'd have to examine the character arcs in relation to what bruce says in the voiceover in that first dream. there's no way you can argue that bruce's arc is isn't thematically consistent as the justice league synopsis proves everyone right, check the early discussion threads if you really want to see how on the money those people were. examine the extent to which the main characters are or aren't explorations of the thesis, and explain the end to which your findings are used within the movie
>>71546863
Anon, forgive them, for they know not what they do.
>>71546885
> it's fucking nothing
You're dumb and out of touch if you didn't like it.
>>71546003
none. its literally perfect
im buying it in bluray even though i downloaded because it was just THAT good that I feel the need to support the sales. snyder fucking NAILED it with this one. wow
>>71546942
But the opposite is true.
>>71546704
I literally just got done watching it for the first time and came looking for a thread. This is the first comment I really agree with, and I am not even sure why.
I liked Ben Afleck as Batman, but didn't favor his interactions with Alfred that much. For being an "older" Batman, I feel like it was only at the end of the film he was really grown up to be the Batman I really expect. This is great for future films, but didn't benefit the bulk of this movie.
Love Amy Adams, but didn't like Lois Lane in this movie.
Felt that Superman giving out one single comment to the press about his origin and that he is trying to live up to the ideals our country was founded on would be enough to quash a lot of criticism. He literally could say, "I am not one of you, but I will strive to be a hero for you.", and that would do a lot.
Parry (?) was engaged in a lot more yellow journalism attitude in this movie. Made me like the character less than I did in MoS.
The entire bullshit with the Senate working Superman over should have been mostly addressed by his working with the military in the first movie. The chick Senator actually seemed to have ideals, but she really didn't have motivation for going after Superman other than "democracy". This is particularly ridiculous since the U.S. government literally handed Superman (with his cooperation) over to Zod in the first film on a platter.
Zod was interesting, and fight was ok, but it didn't even hit Ultron fight levels of excitement. I am really not sure why this bothered me so much, but there was just something lackluster about it.
Wonder Woman really just feels like they put her in to form connections. Lois Lane could have been used to do the same thing with very little story change. Also, she seemed extremely powerful. I am not familiar with her lore, but she was almost on tier with Superman. This felt like an appeal to the SJW's of "look at our strong female character". And flying, really?
>>71547098
Sorry, meant for >>71546003
as well.
cont..
Her seemingly flying was annoying because if I remember correctly, doesn't she have some kind of flying jet? I am fine if she doesn't because that is the biggest thing about the comics to clash with her Amazonian Princes theme, but I really didn't think she could actually fly. Am I wrong on this?
I must be the only one who really liked the post-apocalyptic scene and was happy to see a bit more of that setting. I'd love an entire movie set there. So tired of rehashes of origin stories or poorly translated comics. Give us something new with the IP.
>>71547152
Holy shit, right? I thought that would be awesome too. The freakin' flying bug alien things and the pillars of fire alone were enough to make that scene amazing. I didn't get who was trying to talk to him from the future, though.
>>71547132
There were versions of her that can fly yes. But this version can just jump high and has superstrength. You have to know she's basically a magical being considering she's a demigoddess. Some people would argue that she's actually stronger than Superman because magic is one of his weaknesses and she's also a skilled warrior which Superman isn't.
>Ultron fight levels of excitement
?????????
Honestly I've never felt any gravitas in any of the Marvel movies. It's kind of hard taking the Marvel fights seriously when they keep throwing jokes in.
>>71547193
> I didn't get who was trying to talk to him from the future, though.
The Flash. He's like the resident time traveler in DC.
>>71547098
Seems like Superman was trying to lead by example. The Senate thing was caused by what happened in Africa, try to pay attention.
>>71547281
i hate inspiring speeches honestly. and i hate every speech everyone's ever written for superman.
bruce's moment at clark's funeral is okay for me because its a personal moment where he tells someone of his new mindset
besides. as time goes on, it becomes harder and harder to make some wide appealing point. the simple moment between clark and his father is great because it is a sort of logical end point, you can't control everything, and there'll always be consequences. its a bittersweet place of peace. shit, there are uhhh bible passages that give ideas like this
>>71547261
I used the Ultron fight as an example of the worst of the MCU end fights so far. BvS wasn't even that exciting. The prefight with just Batman and Superman was a little more exciting, really.
>>71547281
The Senate thing was not called because of what went on in Africa. That may have catalyzed events, but you don't really think they got a witness from the village, gathered their evidence, and convened a Senate hearing all in the space of a few days, do you? I mean, the Senate hearing was on before Lois Lane even had her bullet story completed. I think the entire movie takes place over a week or so.
Shit, we are still holding Benghazi hearings, and that was five years ago. I know "movies don't follow real life rules", but if the Africa thing was the sole reason for these hearings then the movie took a lot of liberties with timeframes. Besides, has there ever really been a major investigation in the US when a bunch of brown or black people were killed?
>people hated ANY of the action scenes
best fights in cape
>>71547616
>>71547645
I was most impressed with the scene when the two cops enter the building and the one discovers batman. The way they made him seem to drift along the ceiling more like smoke than man was probably more impressive than most of the fight scenes. Watching the BvS fight was fun, though.
>>71547616
So you didn't pay attention...
They had the African woman come in to give her side of the story as to what happened, which was part of compiling evidence, thus note Finch saying "let the re cord show that..."
It wasn't til the wheelchaiir guy came to Finch and asked to face Superman that the Senate thing was arranged.
Why didn't Superman just give Wonder Woman the spear?
>>71546120
thanks senpai
>>71546274
I must have used wrong word. Not motive, but I didn't understand why he was practically unstable. I understand his hate for Superman but breaking down because he couldn't form a thank you speech at a party was a bit weird for a Lex Luthor character.
>>71549479
she was a little busy
>>71546003
Here's a better question, why should I watch a longer version of a movie when the core issues will still be there?
Lex Luthor still won't be cold and calculating, Superman as a reporter will still be surprised about the name martha, baby doomsday will still be in it.
>>71549593
none of those things amount to actual criticism, superman movie or otherwise
>>71549593
>Superman as a reporter will still be surprised about the name martha
You mean Batman?
Anyway, I don't really get the hate, sure it wasn't exactly high point point of the movie, but what was he supposed to say? "save me mum m8"? "Save Martha Kent, my adoptive mother from Kansas"? No, he just said save Martha and Batman, for not beaing exactly stable about his family got triggered.
The fact that they still used glasses and gel as perfect disguise for Superman is bigger issue for me.
>>71546003
Stop forcing thing down people's throat, like the Justice League. You have a great set of heros, play it slow, people would rather pay good money for 3-4 good Superman and Batman movies and then a JL movie, rather than 3 bad experimental movies.
Make Superman are more knight in shinning armor, he is supposed to represent hope, leave most of the gridy stuff for Batman. Save gridy Superman moments for when he's really being put down. Those really give the sense of Superman being defeated/depressed.
Just stop with the "what if the DCU was put in our reality", it's fiction for a reason. It's ok to tie it into reality, but nobody wanna watch a 3 hour movie of Fox News: Superman.
Know it's too late, but Gal Gadot's wonder woman is not a good wonder woman. You need a character that people can like and recognize easily, wonder woman is a female american symbol in a way, easily likeable.
Bring Deathstroke, black face and Bane on the big screen, and no, with the cinematic universe you have, you do not need to alter these characters.
Bring back Doomsday but with the classic menacing design, you have a great opportunity to redeem one of the strongest villains in the DCU, you dont need to make him a final boss, you can have him as a opening boss where both die(opportunity missed ik), and have the story of JL dealing without Superman.
Let Nolan in charge more, he knows how to make meaningful capeshit without catering to manchilds
>>71546003
They should have cut the "future-whatever" desert and Flash scene. It's dumb and unnecessary.
They should have cut the flash/aquaman/cyborg completely. And have Bruce just tell WW at the end that he found information on other metahumans in the files.
They should have cut the motherfucking Lois Lane throwing the spear into the water.
Basically those are my only major concerns.
>>71549803
>but Gal Gadot's wonder woman is not a good wonder woman.
I disagree. You may dislike her physique; she could be more bulky, but her portrayal of WW was pretty great.
The accent was also fine. Fuck Ancient Greeks/Scythians speaking flawless English American.
>>71549803
Also, let Batfleck work on Batman movies, Nolan would do wonders, but I think giving Affleck the Batman movies is a good since he seem to care a lot about the character.
>>71549803
>>71549907
Shut the fuck up.
>>71549944
There wasn't any female nudity. There wasn't enough WW violence.
>>71549803
nah
superman wasn't gridy in bvs anon.
you don't think superman being subjected to an explosion at a public appearance is him getting really put down? okay
defeated? depressed? interesting. your insights make me wonder why superman went off alone in bvs
but some of us like the thought experiment of what if this was all real, what would actually happen. you got the cartoons and other media, why repeat those things.
its interesting you talk about news when there was only one scene of actual tv pundits while the rest of the movie had little bits of news coverage of what was going on in the city
>black face
not familiar with that character
doomsday had the classic design
he's not one of the strongest villians in dc. just a really well known one
>>71546003
That the film's too high brow for most critics and film goers
>>71550026
Black mask*
Sorry
Also, Doomsday is one of the strongest villains in the DCU, one of the few to actually kill supes, and no, he did not have a similar design to the classic doomsday.
For the "why repeat what cartoons and other media has already done", because it has worked, its what people like and its what made people originally wanna see Superman movies. Nolan already figured out a good universe for Batman, Snyder had yet to find one for his.
>>71547705
Snyder stop shooting dream sequences
>>71546003
It's still shit
>>71550098
how the fuck do you confuse MASK with FACE
uhhh, fuck off
yeah, that's not doomsday 'classic' design either
oh gee, looks like doomsday is just a big ugly grey thing with bone protrusions. damn. the movie got it right while actually pulling more out of the character, interestingly enough
because it worked? what does that even mean? i watched all of those things too, and i prefer this movie to all of that, for cutting the shit (if i may use that term) and playing it straight with their story.
snyder's approach to "how would the world react to superman/first alien contact" scenario is done well. there are various comics where writers took the superman archetype and explored it. all of them are more intense with the military factor than these movies have been, which have focused on clark's journey.
you're not pointing out flaws, you're saying things are bad just because they are without any argument
>>71547705
>>71550208
Snyder, do whatever the hell you want to do, with terrio's blessing
>>71550282
Because I was thinking two-face and then remembered that it was Black mask, common brainfart, dont have to pee your pants about it.
Also your pic isnt even close to the doomsdays in the movie. You're so full of feelings and clearly loved the movie, I doubt any suggestion in this thread would get to you. Just because you liked something doesn't mean it was good, clearly. Since a majority disliked the Snyder movies.
Explained most of my points in the original post, no need to write an essay to explain why Eisenbergs Lex' wasn't a good Lex, for example. Just give key notes.
That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Marvel Capekino" bullshit that's going on on Rotten Tomatoes right now. DC deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.
I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine Snyder capekino Ultimate Edition BluRay for $29.99 AU (that's about $22.48 US) and have been watching it for almost 2 days now.
Jack Snyder spent years working on a single capekino and edit it up to a million times to produce the finest superhero kino known to mankind.
BvS is thrice as sharp as Marvel shit and thrice as deep for that matter too. Anything a Marvel film can do, BvS can do better. I'm pretty sure BvS could easily bisect a shitty Marvel quipfest with a simple camera angle.
Ever wonder why Marvelcucks never bothered watching BvS ? That's right, they were too pleb to watch the masterful cinematography of Zack Snyder and his intrciate exploration of theology. Even before its release, redditors targeted the patricians with taste first because their opinion was feared and respected.
So what am I saying? BvS is simply the best superhero film that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better ratings on the Rotten Tomatoes system. Here is the rating I propose for BvS:
(Standard Edition)
85% Fresh Rating
(Ultimate Edition)
98% Fresh Rating
Now that seems a lot more representative of the cinematic power of BvS in real life, don't you think?
tl;dr = BvS needs better ratings on Rotten Tomatoes, see my new review score
>>71546003
We didn't get any Amy nipple
kek
Reminder: we could have had a 3 hour Man of Steel Extended Edition including these scenes:
>A Scene showing the Clarks holding baby Clark
>Baby Clark taken to the hospital, letting out a scream which shatters all windows
>A longer oil rig rescue
>Extended scenes of Clark wandering after the oil rig rescue such as finding a stray dog
>A longer Superman/Zod conversation
>A longer Superman/Lois conversation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DrtXthS7bA
>>71546766
considering all that's happening in the vast majority of the movie is CGI wankery, you finding BvS "not boring" just means you're that special type of person who can be amused by special effects alone.
>>71550518
Hopefully Snyder releases a Extended Edition
>>71547616
Jimmy Olson, CIA got shot and killed. Anytime that happens the the government and the people get heavily involved. Also, the government was going to send a drone to wipe the evidence so they were bought off by Lex, so in reality the whole courthousr debacle was planned by Lex the whole time. The only thing he didn't intend on happening was the Senator not going along with his plans. So he killed her, along with everyone else to make it look bad on Supes. Even if they didn't believe he did it personally, they would blame him for not stopping it and for being the catalyst for it
>>71550547
I doubt it. Been years it has probably been deleted all the raw footage
what the fuck is the UC
>>71550599
Ultimate Cut you pleb
>>71550599
Ultimate Cuck
>assume /tv/'s just memeing
>it really is kino
>>71547152
The problem with that scene is its objectively better than anything else in the movie, but its a fucking dream.
There's basically no way Snyder's superman could ever be anything but that type of evil god-emperor of humanity, as pa kent was that shitty a human being and did everything he could to make clark as shitty a person as him.
But of course, out of absolutely nowhere, clark starts talking about how hes trying to be a hero for the ghost of his father? When russel-El didn't exactly tell supes to be a hero either and when they jammed pa-kent back into the movie, hes right-the-fuck-back to his "don't help it causes problems" bullshit.
>>71546704
>i have a low attention span but it's not my fault
>>71547610
The point though is you have to have a really, really big problem (or a total asshole) to put superman in a position where he can't also deal with the consequences of his actions.
So that entire dad scene was just Costner, agaiin, trying to tell superman to be cynical.
>>71550666
You honestly going to sit there and argue that a sequel in which Superman becomes the ruler of Earth after going insane because of Lois Lane's death is a good direction to take the franchise?
>>71548859
holly hunter was head of a fucking superman committee. Implying hearings like that were a regular deal.
>>71546003
How did Lex know Superman couldn't see stuff through lead?
>>71550438
>pee pants
i...... bad vibes but....
i don't love the movie. i said that i PREFER this movie, to the rest of superman media
and i prefer certain comics that use the superman trope in an even more 'realistic' way than snyder has done so far ie characters that are named
you're not making suggestions, despite claiming that *i'm* full of emotions you're positing these assertions as if they're the only thing that's valid.
lol dude, just because you didn't like it doesn't mean its bad and a majority hasn't disliked the movies. man of steel was split only because of overreaction to some scenes. bvs has gotten a lot of asinine 'criticisms' as well.
i would never consider "dark" or "joyless" to be a valid criticism for ANY movie
classic lex, sees that superman has power that he doesn't, and sets out to bring him down
>>71550477
fuck off
>>71550666
This was to contrast the philosophies of Batman and Superman. Man of Steel established that it would take an entire city destroyed and thousands killed to snap a single neck, while Batman remorsefully will snap any neck he needs to.
>>71550566
>they would blame him for not stopping it and for being the catalyst for it
which happened not too long after
>>71550779
It is, you little nucapeshit queer.
>>71549743
The entire sequence was idiotic, that was the point. The first two hours of the movie are throwing out every possible contrivance to get superman and batman to fight, then basically everything that happens in the first two hours is ditched when lex gets the idea to just kidnap mom.
If superman wants to talk to a normal human, all superman has to do is hold him by the shoulders. The idea superman was fighitng bruce at all, at any point, was utterly ridiculous.
Then you have the fact batman, somehow decides to fight superman without actually learning a single goddamn thing about him apart from the information lex feeds him.
>>71550779
But that's what happens in Injustice and it is something we have never seen before on screen so yes that is a great decision.
>>71550779
yes. the injustice stuff is really interesting
>>71550779
Fuck yes, we have plenty of goody good superman movies. So fucking what if we get one where he's evil? It's give us am opportunity to see him fight the other members of the justice League which wilk be epic. It's also possible Darkseid can be controlling him somehow
>>71550779
sure, why not
>>71550678
you mean the jonathan kent that let clark know the impact his existence would have on the whole world? the jonathan kent that was not only interested in the safety of his immediate family or the community at large by the whole world? we that jonathan kent?
you mean the jonathan kent who said the exact opposite of what you're implying? oh you mean the jonathan kent that told clark to do his best since the only thing he can control is himself, that jonathan kent.
>>71550779
put it this way, its the only thematically consistent direction snyder's superman can go.
But, hey, no one has ever called zack snyder thematically consistent.
>>71550719
>trying to tell superman to be cynical
not at all
straight up just told clark that he can't control everything, so just do what you can.
there's nothing wrong with this
>>71547610
>the simple moment between clark and his father is great because it is a sort of logical end point, you can't control everything, and there'll always be consequences. its a bittersweet place of peace
It also ties in with and is a mirror of kals conversation with his biological dad in mos, about the hope that any person can be a force for the greater good.
they would keep Lex bald in Kino League but how are they gonna explain it? first it was prison, but hair grows tho
>>71546003
They didn't cut out the forced Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg cameos.
You can't cut out the Wonderwoman scenes
The wonder woman Spy kids theme that ruins the tone of the film
And what comes down to a fizzle of an ending and waste of multiple storylines, we have come to the revelation that we are 20+ years ahead of all the good Batman v Joker stuff and it is all going to be shit from here on out.
>>71550924
I mean the pa kent who said "you should've let the kids on the bus die" in MoS and "helping just causes more problems" in BvS.
Was there another?
>>71550862
>happens in the first two hours is ditched when lex gets the idea to just kidnap mom
the fuck is this bullshit. its the leverage needed to get superman to do that, nothing more
by your logic then the dark knight returns is 'utterly ridiculous' as well
hell, in that comic superman starts beating on bruce much quicker and with much much less incentive
everything that didn't make any sense still doesn't make any sense.
>>71549803
>play it slow
fuck off this isn't marvel
waiting LITERALLY 6-7 years for a finale is dumb
>>71550949
This. The entire movie is about Clark dealing with the consequences of his actions. He goes to his fortress of solitude to try to make sense of it all, and walks away from it with the idea that even the most heroic of deeds can have devastating consequences.
>>71550949
JONATHAN KENT can't control everything. Snyder had his version of the character, instead of recognizing that clark literally can do anything, do everything he could to pass on his type of impotent cynicism to a literal walking God.
>>71549803
But anon, we already have 3-4 superman movies where he's a boyscout.
>>71551034
Yet it works.
Unlike SPLURGE YOUR LOAD IN ONE FILM
WHATS THAT AUDIENCE??!!
YOU CANT SWALLOW IT ALL????
TOO FUCKING BAD
DROWN IN OUR RANCID SEMEN
>yfw this scene in JL
>>71551016
>its okay because the comics did it worse
The point is there was literally no way to get snyder's superman to give a shit about batman. So the writer just gave up and had lex kidnap mommy.
After, of course, two solid hours of throwing out every possible contrivance to generate a legitimate conflict between batman and superman
>>71551110
Five.
And they are all better than GrimDark Snydersupes.
>>71551001
that's not what he said at all, at all
why are you acting high and mighty while deliberately misquoting the guy and his message
the guy is clearly uncomfortable when he says "maybe" then immediately softens his tone when he sees clark get more agitated and starts explaining the situation he NEVER suggests to clark that he *should* have let those kids drown. don't be facetious
>there's more at stake here than our lives or the lives of those around us. When the world... When the world finds out what you can do, it's gonna change everything
do these sound like the words of someone who doesn't care about anyone?
and the message in bvs to clark was that he can't foresee and prevent everything, but he has to do good anyway and not let himself get frozen by fear and doubt.
>>71551155
Lol whatever you say kid. I guess if you think flying around the world to travel back in time is just like, totally ok.
>>71551137
that' the fucking point you idiot, superman is not a guy who seeks to fight people
sure he roughed up batman's car, sure he told him not to be batman anymore, but he never wanted to actually fight him. you are not pointing out a flaw in the movie
>>71551068
>that clark literally can do anything
no, he can't
he's not all powerful, but strangely enough, he proved to be all good in the end
>>71551227
>the point is to spend two solid hours slogging through the already known fact that snyder's clark is literally incapable of giving a shit about superman
... I hope you didn't think you made some sort of argument.
>>71551120
>ur bad cuz ur stronger than humans can ever be!
>literal ocean of people walking around who were once human, now as strong or stronger than superman
... So DC is a mess?
>>71551252
>that mangled epicurus
That scene was a total fucking embarrassment and you should be red in the face you even brought it up again.
>>71551738
yeah, capecomics are a mess
they were seemingly cutting out the fat but it looks like they might have to fluff it all up again
The additional footage and backstory added nothing to the overall "vision" put forth by Snyder and the writer (think it's that David guy whatever). The movie still sucks overall.
>>71551794
why? its lex's point of view, nothing more
the guy i responded to had bullshit entitlements
>>71546003
what the actual fuck was with the piss? What shitty, shitty movie
>>71552021
>first time ever different take on superman
>not all powerful can turn back time superman
>dares to bring some simple concepts about what it would actually mean to be perceived as all powerful into the movie
>this just sucks yo
ok
>>71552096
Did you even remember her dialogue scene with Lex or did you just forget that?
>>71550882
Agree, anon. They should do an Injustice movie.
>>71550779
i don't really care
i definitely wouldn't mind more insurgent revolutionary batman though
>>71552142
There was no need for the water sports fetish of Snyder. He could've show Luthor's "fuck you" to the senator in a thousand ways, without the piss.. this is just shitty writing
>>71552207
>its shitty writing because i say so
>we just can't have people throwing words back and blowing people up
![Batman.v.Superman.Dawn.of.Justice.2016.Extended.Ultimate.Edition.720p.WEB-DL.H264.AC3-EVO.mkv_snapshot_02.03.57_[2016.07.02_23.37.52].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2yxBvKu.jpg "Batman.v.Superman.Dawn.of.Justice.2016.Extended.Ultimate.Edition.720p.WEB-DL.H264.AC3-EVO.mkv_snapshot_02.03.57_[2016.07.02_23.37.52].jpg")
>Hahaha, these four drone guns will surely stop this invincible man in his tracks. This was a great idea.
>>71552126
It didn't pull off those concepts well at all, dipshit. Past films have already shown Superman to be a flawed character it's just faggots like yourself defend Snyder's shit remix because the guy knows how to frame a scene and make superman have big muscles to appeal to your homolust.
>>71552224
>unironically defending a piss jar subplot
>>71552224
The whole granny's peach tea dialog in Luthor's house was an excuse for Snyder to do the piss jar scene, for pure shock value. The whole piss business doesn't add anything to the movie
>>71546003
god this movie fucking sucked.
>>71552301
>it's a subplot
>>71552029
>lex is too retarded to understand Epicurus.
everyone involved should be embarrassed as fuck that scene exists at all.
BvS portraits Batman as a insecure bully, abusing Supes as soon he's powerless and cowering in fear when his powers return. There is no brains in this Batman, is all brawn with people he knows he can abuse. I don't know how Affleck is gonna make this Batman version likable, Snyder fucked up badly
>>71552388
why? its lex's way of making sense of his life
here i have a situation and god didn't do shit, why? either he lets it happen or he can't do shit. nothing else would be relevant to him. its meant to explore lex, not epicurus. its more of the "can god make a rock he can't lift" scenario but personalized.
if you want epicurus, read epicurus
>>71552422
>There is no brains in this Batman
>but he can hack Lex and KGBeast no problem
>>71552422
BvS portrays batman as a hunter, seeking to kill superman to validate himself.
that specific moment is the way someone would react to some animal. so much of that fight scene has batman displaying that kind of body language
>you were never a god
>you were never even a man
>>71552532
The problem, of course, is superman is clearly not all powerful. So its the type of question that answers itself if any thought what so ever is directed to it.
So snyder's lex is a guy who doesn't think through anything at all beyond the first one or two steps.
>>71546120
>Lex's motive
>Expose “power can be innocent” as a lie.
I caught his motive as more of "waahh Superman didn't help me from father's abuse" kind of thing.
As someone who didn't watch it on the theaters and had low expectations for the Ultimate Edition, I thought it wasn't that bad but was still watchable. It was annoying when they didn't show Batman in action until the last half of the movie. They could have shown him being Batman when he attacked those human traffickers or Lex Corp. The dream sequences was weird and felt out of place. Everyone suddenly can read each other's mind when they fought Doomsday.
They most thing I disliked from the movie is the symbolism. I think symbolism should be subtle to be actually good but not "in your face so you don't miss it" kind of symbolism.
>>71552277
>i want to kill superman
>logically this means first I need to make him mad
was snyder's batman utterly brilliant or what?
>>71552553
>>Runs the cracking software on his supercomputer and then takes a sit and waits
>>Hacking
>>71552653
This is you overanalyzing a bad movie
>>71552717
Oh so now we're at the point where we're outright denying reference and parallel if they suck.
The movie itself applies Epicurus' arguments directly to superman.
can anyone rec a movie where every single character acts completely logically 100% of the time?
>>71552707
>>71552422
I think the Batman in the DCEU is more "I'm tired of playing nice" Batman since they imply he's been dressing up as Batman for at least 20 years. I agree that Batman is way too hothead and needs more Detective Batman and actually being smart. Although I liked how he was sloppy in the fight against the thugs.
>>71552707
if punches hurt superman after the kryptonite gas, then why didn't batman rig the drone guns to fire after the gas? or just pull out a gun.
>>71552735
You can't over analyze a bad movie. Especially one as bad as BvS. There is no bottom to this rabbit hole.
"Lois, I have to go to Gotham to convince him to help me. Or he has to die…"
Anybody else feel bad for Superman during this movie? All the guy wanted was to save his mom, and Batman, being the douchebag that he was in the film, kept instigating conflict instead of trying to listen to reason.
That's just my opinion, I know how vicious you guys are so don't bite my head off lol.
>>71550574
nothing gets deleted anymore, but whether it would be worth doing all the post-production on the raw footage...
>>71552799
Why not put the kryptonite in the bullets?
>>71552777
>outright denying reference and parallel
>denying
nah
controversy where there is none m8
>>71552791
primer
any PTA movie.
>>71552829
>building an entire character around a gross misunderstanding of epicurus and using that as a source of conflict.
>not a problem
nigga pls
>>71552815
is that recolored?the ones on youtube are absolute ass SATURATION x 1000
>>71552824
even a better set-up using just the three amaterish traps that batman set would have been much more effective. gas, then that force field thing that stopped him, then drone guns to finish him off while he is incapacitated.
>>71552824
if bats had just made kryptonite bullets, he wouldn't have been able to make that sweet spear, and therefore they couldn't reference the bible, again, in a fucking superman movie.
>>71552887
wasn't the force field supposed to be a reproduction of the world engine or something?
batman has that type of tech and literally does nothing with it.
>>71546003
no matter how hard you try, this movie will be shit forever. And forgotten, again, in just a couple of weeks.
>>71552934
you think 400m in marketing just spends itself? People are going to be shilling this for fucking ever.
>>71552815
>Anybody else feel bad for Superman during this movie?
That's largely the point m88
>>71552878
I guess so! I just found it on /co/ and thought it looked cool lol.
>>71552861
>guy has problems growing up
>gets power
>guy comes along who just has power intrinsically
>triggers guy
>brings back all those feels
if the movie was about epicurus and or completely about the problem of evil you'd be absolutely right
but since it isn't... broheim, je t'en supplie
What if their mother's name wasn't Martha
>>You're letting Mimi die
How can you shoot a scene as bad as this, let alone act on one? What they were thinking?
>>71552962
I know, but I feel that the point is lost on a lot of the critics of this film. They try to pick it apart so much and over-analyze everything, they miss very basic simple concepts. Again, just my opinion.
>>71552981
ah, thanks
>>71553023
No problem, friend!
>>71552990
snyder-Lex's entire motivation was built upon his mangled epicurus.
so unless you're trying to argue that isn't the case, when its explicitly stated in the movie, and referenced multiple times...
>>71552962
seeing people throw so much shit at the movie made me feel for the guy even more
>>71553020
its kinda hard to feel bad for someone who can do just about anything.
Its like making a movie about a guy starving to death, as a result of his own actions, when he has millions of dollars to his... name... oh right, people liked into the wild too.
well shit, I guess I just can't into the average person's mind then.
>>71552962
If you feel bad for one of the most powerful beings in the movie's universe, and you end up hating Batman for bullying and abusing said being, then your movie is terrible
>lois finds out legman's wheelchair was made of lead to hide the bomb from superman
>from a person who apparently didn't tell anyone else
>lois also doesn't tell anyone
well that was a fun dropped subplot.
>>71546003
Any who criticizes BvS is unintelligent because they're not smart enough to understand it. Therefore there is no intelligent criticism of the film.
>>71553163
how circular.
>>71553062
then what?
powerful people have mangled understandings of all sorts of things and still succeed in their pursuit of things in certain lanes
shit, even the dichotomies are shat on by clark ultimately being "just a guy trying to do the right thing"
who knows, we'd have to ask terrio if this was him or snyder
>>71553150
But how did Luthor knew that Superman can't see through lead? When in the movies was established that he can't see through lead?
>>71553102
its not like that at all
its like making a movie about a guy who's given immense power and he has to deal with how other people react to that power to the point of trying to use his very presence against him
>>71553197
Well now you're making my own arguments for me.
lex's understanding of epicurus was so mangled that it would've been instantly answered by the fact superman existed at all. Everyone knows hes not all powerful, so he really can be all-good.
>>71553102
That's the whole thing, though. It's kind of like, Christopher Reeves' take on Supes:
>"All those things I can do. All those powers. And I couldn't even save him." referring to his dad
For me, personally, the fact that an all-powerful being, despite his powers, is still fallible, is a poignant message that resonates deeply with a lot of people, myself included. That being said, I can understand why people didn't like it either. To each his own I suppose.
>>71553236
since they're operating under the pretense of realism, the only thing supes would be able to see that could pass through matter would be x-rays. and lead blocks that decently.
>>71553236
How did Lex even know Bruce Wayne is Batman or even Clark Kent is Superman?
How did Lex even know Superman's weakness is Kryptonite?
How come Perry didn't fire Clark's ass from the Daily Planet?
>>71553263
and that situation answers itself. Hes got the power to flood out any sort of opposition to him.
So the problem with snyder's superman, is, for some reason, no one can think anything through at all.
>>71553293
Superman isn't all powerful though.
>>71546003
What was the point of this scene? Why is this movie so fucking weird?
>>71553358
so, clark didn't think that someone would bomb his public appearance
and that's a story flaw
lol
>>71553411
it symbolized red kryptonite, as there's no way in hell a government official would ever so much as be in the same room as a nutcase like luthor.
to say, it symbolized the writer forcing people to do what he needed to move the plot forward.
Anyone else likes how Superman flies in this film?
>>71553383
Well, without the presence of kryptonite and compared to us puny humans, he is pretty much lol. I could go on all day.
>>71553458
Nice non-sequitur.
My argument is in response to every attempt by anyone to say superman is a menace/threat, superman can put right thousands of wrongs.
But for some reason, snyder's superman doesn't realize this, and just mopes around.
>>71553475
It symbolizes Snyder forcing another of his fetishes on his audience. That fucker needs another therapy that doesn't involve making movies
>>71553493
You could only "go on" if your definition of "all powerful" is extremely limited.
Could superman move the sun? Could superman grab all the stars in the sky? There's an infinite expanse between complete omnipotence and what even silver-age superman was.
![Batman.v.Superman.Dawn.of.Justice.2016.Extended.Ultimate.Edition.720p.WEB-DL.H264.AC3-EVO.mkv_snapshot_02.24.01_[2016.06.29_08.49.09].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/fLHPv4p.jpg "Batman.v.Superman.Dawn.of.Justice.2016.Extended.Ultimate.Edition.720p.WEB-DL.H264.AC3-EVO.mkv_snapshot_02.24.01_[2016.06.29_08.49.09].jpg")
It's ugly.
>>71553270
the point was never that clark was literally omnipotent
for all practical purposes, he has the abilities of a god
the point isn't that lex LITERALLY thinks of clark as god, but that this point of challenge to his own power seemingly comes from on high
again, the point is to destroy this challenge to his own power
by shat on i should have said that clark personally resolves his inner tension by committing to the act of selflessness regardless of all the "questions" he ignores or otherwise shuts out all the noise and commits completely to his purpose
>>71553567
didn't goyer write this mess though? Not trying to shift blame, of course. Snyder has that very special ability to ruin even the best possible script.
>Batman literally beat up Superman with a sink
Marvel is fucked up. They will never has a moment as iconic as this.
>MARTHA
>ok we're friends now
LMFAO
>>71553586
I'd say this is pretty damn powerful, wouldn't you? I see what you're saying, though.
>>71553620
If the movies didn't constantly equate superman to god/jesus, you might have an argument there.
>>71553697
an all powerful figure wouldn't need to chain a bunch of worlds together.
>>71553547
all he does is help people whenever he can
the movie shows this by showing how he's following bruce at lex's party then gets his attention grabbed by the news of someone in danger. he sees that the situation is "hopeless" and intervenes.
"mope around" bullshit anon. he got bombed, it's completely reasonable for him to self exile. before that point he had been going about his business pretty normally, the only thing that even slightly irked him was the inability to change things through the paper
>>71553733
How about this then? :P
>>71553752
Put it this way, rather than show up at the senate hearing at all, he could've saved any number of lives or righted any number of wrongs, at the same time, and used the footage of those deeds to speak for him.
Hes got the power to let his actions speak for him in an utterly limitless manner.
>>71553701
well, it doesn't
i'm surprised no one has pulled the blasphemy card as the movie is saying that that can be anyone and everyone, something most strands of christianity used to kill people for
the story was shit, the behavior of... literaly everyone made no sense. and then when they try to show that as some epic human drama, that just annoys you, because you have characters doing something stupid, and then brooding over it.
immediately the opening was a glaring sign of the problem
>aliens tearing metropolis to shreds
>Bruce calls his office telling the guy to flee, because apparently his employees are so retarded they see the city being torn apart and their mindset is "it's still 2hours till lunch break", you need to literally tell them to flee the building
and then when this guy is dying, in an absurdly pious manner, i'm supposed to touched, instead of annoyed by his attitude.
>>71553837
well, religion ain't what it used to be.
and you're blind/stupid if you don't see all the constant jesus imagery used in conjuction with superman.
>>71553628
>>another shock value moment
discarded
>>71553818
he wanted to engage in the discourse in a public manner, and its completely reasonable for him to do so
you wouldn't fault someone in real life for being blind sided by a terrorist attack, so why are you acting like this is a valid criticism of the movie
>>71553778
>he needed to do anything but think away the planet
I mean I think that's whats happening there.
Seriously what the fuck is happening there?
>>71553884
>you wouldn't fault someone in real life for being blind sided by a terrorist attack
why are you acting like I ever said that? Is it because you don't actually have a counter argument?
>>71553567
My fickin sides.
JUST FUCK MY SHIT UP
>>71550678
Jonathan and Martha were fine.
Your dad isn't an asshole just because he wouldn't like you going to the army, being a firefighter or people freaking out about you.
>>71553736
"Muh misoginy"
"Muh mommy"
>>71553867
and you're stupid if you think all of that is just to say that superman = jesus. btw, you ignored what i said to go into another simplistic muh jesus complaint
actually, i have no idea how smart you are. however i can tell you for certain that a fair amount of the ideas referenced in regards to christianity are definitely not mainstream. and again, anything that is for superman for these movies is meant to be for everyone, this access to divinity included
>>71553982
it kinda would if i was literally invulnerable and/or able to put out fires with my mind.
>>71554027
wait, why am I not allowed to complain about the forced and simplistic jesus/biblical references in MoS and what does that have to do with your sudden choice to appeal to the authority of mainstream religion?
>>71553917
that is my counter argument, why should we expect superman to be completely savvy to his situation 100% of the time
anyone could btfo your argument by bringing up clark's comment of
"i didn't see it"
"i'm afraid i didn't see it because i wasn't looking"
you're not arguing anything, you're taking a hypothetical situation and saying an individual in that position *should act as such. all i'm saying is that the sequences of events are reasonable given the temperament the individual in question
>>71554027
Actually, you know what? Just thinking about this movie is making me dumber.
>>71554030
they don't know the extent of his invulnerability. Not to mention they're probably never thought of a secret identity, so he'd be risking not having a normal life etc. Not everyone is an asshole for not serving others and for thinking their son should do what's best for him.
That bit was fine, specially in a movie that is examining when to think of yourself, when to think of others (and at what point does it become a parasitic relationship)
The movie is a slogging mess for a whole fuckload of reasons.
>>71554120
why do you keep banging on about the bomb, as if I ever said anything about the bomb?
My argument is since all that is capable of mattering to superman is his own will, then the idea he would mope around as a result of bad things happening is ridiculous and forced. To the extent this weak mentality is being forced upon superman by the writers because, otherwise, the gritty realistic vibe wouldn't be possible to maintain if superman was actually being super.
>>71554073
because you're not reading them correctly.
you're just pointing and shouting jesus! bad! no! with no regard to what is actually being commented on
with no regard to the fact that the death is precisely the way by which it is shown that he is not a figure to be worshipped or looked up to, this contrasts directly with the vast majority of christianity as we know it today. you can't tell me that the biblical references are 'forced' when the movie takes these meanings and takes hard left turns
>>71554140
I don't know mang, I just can't stop thinking about pa kent telling superboy to let kids die. Then the bit in BvS where hes saying "helping just causes more problems!"
They knew he was many times stronger than a normal person. Usually pa kent tries to put superman on the right path, but snyder's pa kent tried to make superman feel just as useless and weak as he was.
thread is tl;dr but I personally felt BvS:
-had incoherent storytelling by balancing 6 or 7 different plots, some of which go nowhere
-had the worst performances in a movie this big possibly ever from henry cavill and jesse eisenberg
-shat on batman's theology by giving him a gun as a primary weapon and making him kill countless enemies
-had terrible third act monster. Ugly design, did no real damage
-the fucking dream sequences
-trying to shoehorn a marvel-sized universe into one film
>>71554195
he's not moping
and the whole presentation of superman in the narrative is of a guy that cares for people, he cares, that's why shit gets to him. you're saying that a guy in his position has no recourse but to not care and that that makes the movie bad.
the type of mentality you're describing has been explored through other superman archetype characters, never superman. there's no argument here unless you're willing to just throw away this whole premise of superman in the first place
he is being super, the movie explores the extent to which his being super affects the world, while also showing that outside of that he has his personal life as well.
there's this other comic that explores this angle you're talking about, can't remember it, but it's out there.
>>71554217
Well, in order to really take a "left turn" on an established meaning, one must understand the established meaning and the left turn one intends to take.
Zack Snyder.
>>71554276
pa kent didn't tell the clark to let kids die
and neither did he say that helping causes more problems
he literally said that we can't foresee every eventuality but that shouldn't stop us from doing good
sure
Pleb garbage for low IQ plebs
>>71554318
which someone behind the movie clearly does
you think its a coincidence that the big giant larger than life statue in a 'picking up' pose got destroyed, with eventually a plaque being put in its place? or how about the detail that the citizens of metropolis wrote around that plaque saying that the city and its inhabitants are themselves superman's monument? that's a coincidence?
whereas normal christianity states that we must be approved by divinity to cross the gap, but here the comment is that anyone can cross that gap by committing to purpose? these things are coincidental and evident of a 'lack' of understanding?
>>71554307
>-had incoherent storytelling by balancing 6 or 7 different plots, some of which go nowhere
all the plots get connected by the time of the big cgi generic fight
eh meaningless complaint about batman
two dreams in a two hour movie oh the humanityyyy
>>71554337
The problem with everything snyder's pa kent says is the fact snyder's pa kent is an idiot who, for some strange reason, never seems to grasp what superman means or can do. So everything he says is coming from a bitter, cynical, weak man who, because he can't see consequences or really do anything useful, thinks clark also must live by the same philosophy of impotent cynicism.
But thankfully clark seems to always do the exact opposite of what anyone says. because reasons.
>>71553697
>>71553778
this isn't film criticism
>>71554276
well he says "maybe" tbf, and that helping creates its own problems and consequences, things dont just "end" with a happy ending.
At first I thought the same as you (I only knew superman through All Star Superman) and thought Martha's "you don't owe this world anything" and Jonathan were weird - but BvS at least extended on the notion people would eventually have endless demands and expecations from Clark (to the point of seeing him as a god).
Now I thought it was fine for them to think first of their son's "selfish" interests. I think it shows a more loving realistic relationship than it would be if they just went "oh yeah whatever concern yourself 24-7 with what people, tv and politics will demand of you"
>>71554436
That's all shit that was in the comics, yo.
>>71554516
This isn't a film
>>71554510
you're throwing a bunch of buzzwords on the jonathan character
he doesn't deviate from the comics at all, which had plenty of moments where he said "you must keep your powers a secret"
jonathan is not cynical at all
literally in that scene that triggered your autism he not only expressed concern for his own immediate family but for the whole community
lex is the embodiment of what jonathan kent was thinking about in regards to the world reacting against superman: people willing to do anything to bring him down
>>71554572
it has pictures in motion as they say, so yeah, it is
>>71554276
Seeing as how Superman is literally dead right now, you don't see that as being any validation for Johnathan's apprehension about Clark making a career out of saving others at the cost of his own well-being?
None? Really?
I have absolutely no clue why people are spazzing about Martha/
Unless something got changed in UC (haven't seen the kino version).
>>71554540
so then snyder is actually doing an accurate job of adapting the comics
>>71554611
>Seeing as how Superman is literally dead right now
Dude...
>>71554611
they hated him, they started to burn effigies made in his image, yet he still died for them. lex included
>>71554637
No, hes just kinda shotgunning iconic imagery from the comics and mixing it with some half-thought bullshit he came up with, with no regards for consistency or tone.
Which is the same thing hes always done.
Hes never shown any sort of real understanding of anything in his career. Just reproduction.
>>71554610
This is a movie at best
>>71554636
no its still just as bad.
Its the idea that batman never investigated a single thing about superman and goes from wanting to kill him to besties because supes says martha.
>>71554670
>with no regards for consistency or tone
blatantly false, the movie contains a consistent tone throughout, and is consistent on every other front as well
at least fucking meme me with
>consistently shit ayyyyy string of namecalls
>>71554661
Well, in danger of putting more thought into the movie than anyone involved with it... after superman "dies" from the nuke, it seems he kinda understands even if he dies, he won't stay dead for long. So he wasn't so much trying to die as to get the spear deeper by pulling himself closer to doomsday's chest.
Of course,why a kryptonite spear would do more damage protruding from a kryptonian abomination's back than from inside is completely unanswerable, but whatever.
Too much time spent at Wayne manor/the batcave/Bruce's home.
My favourite parts of the movie were when Bruce Wayne was investigating in his civvies, I've seen enough of Bruce grumbling to Alfred in some murky lit room.
>>71554726
Well, the double-meaning of the painted effigy clearly wasn't intended. As "looking around" where supes fought doomsday one would see a partially leveled city. But snyder intended only "look to each other"
There's no saving this movie. There isn't a single interesting scene and it looks like garbage.
>>71554791
playing it so fucking smart yet the question you're too much of an idiot to ask is why the spear had a sudden burst of energy after it went through.
>>71549902
>but her portrayal of WW was pretty great.
>>71554824
jeremy irons looking like he wanted to kill everyone was fun though.
His interpretation of alfred as a man bearing intense hatred for bruce wayne was definately new.
>>71554694
>he keeps talking about his parents
>he says supes is not even human
>supers begs him to save martha
>batman realizes supes is just as human as he is with parents and all
>memories of his mothers death rush in, and his fathers last words "martha" (just like supes')
>he decides to back off
>supers explains batman luthers plan (off screen which is a huge fuckup).
It was fine.
>>71554886
i assumed it was that energetic the entire time. As it seemed to brighten/dim according to it's proximity to kryptonians. So the "burst"as just doomday's viscera disintegrating away from it.
>>71549803
>Know it's too late, but Gal Gadot's wonder woman is not a good wonder woman. You need a character that people can like and recognize easily, wonder woman is a female american symbol in a way, easily likeable.
The actress must have talent, charisma and beauty, Gadot has nothing of it, by far the worst cast of film history
>>71554922
>world's greatest detective didn't know supes had parents
nah m8
Also, put it this way, what if mama wayne or mama kent had different names?
>>71554888
It was.
>that scene where WW actually breaks out the golden lasso
cringed vigorously
>>71554981
Doesn't matter, they had the same name.
>>71555038
When your contrived conflict is resolved by an equally more contrived coincidence, shit most certainly does matter.
![Batman.v.Superman.Dawn.of.Justice.2016.Extended.Ultimate.Edition.720p.WEB-DL.H264.AC3-EVO.mkv_snapshot_00.23.09_[2016.07.01_19.56.37].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/we2a7Js.jpg "Batman.v.Superman.Dawn.of.Justice.2016.Extended.Ultimate.Edition.720p.WEB-DL.H264.AC3-EVO.mkv_snapshot_00.23.09_[2016.07.01_19.56.37].jpg")
seriously?
>>71555064
If they had different names then the resolution would be different. It's really not hard to understand.
>>71550518
Another piece or garbage
>>71555148
As in, bats simply wouldn't have stopped.
So the painfully contrived conflict is resolved by an even more contrived coincidence.
but hey, bad writing isn't a problem and you're an idiot if you think otherwise.
>>71554949
She has all of them.
You must be felling insecure because you'd look like a tiny manlet next to her.
>>71555239
so youre arguing hypotheticals instead of about what actually happened?
If you don't have the intellect to handle back-to-back dream sequences, maybe continue watching Marvelshit.
>jack stands in place for 10 minutes while building is in imminent danger
>batman can see through anything except lead, but batman pops a smokescreen and he can't find him
>batman using guns
>the writing for the martha scene was helmethead retarded
>batman suddenly cares about superman because martha
![Batman.v.Superman.Dawn.of.Justice.2016.Ultimate.Edition.1080p.WEB-DL.DD5.1.H264-RARBG.mkv_snapshot_01.54.23_[2016.07.02_11.02.53].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/S0b95x5.jpg "Batman.v.Superman.Dawn.of.Justice.2016.Ultimate.Edition.1080p.WEB-DL.DD5.1.H264-RARBG.mkv_snapshot_01.54.23_[2016.07.02_11.02.53].jpg")
how did he knew who he and batman were? I feel like if that were explained in the movie in wouldn't have feel so dumb
