I am a bit confused about this movie's ending and how it later relates to the tv show:So it is obvious that Laura became an angel after she died and ascended to Heaven as I gather - so why is she still in the red room throughout the tv series when Cooper dreams and sees her there?
Also: general discussion on this film and how you rate it.
>>71282939>So it is obvious that Laura became an angel after she died
No. That's just your headcanon. Maybe we'll get some answers in S3.
>why is she still in the red room throughout the tv series
It's never stated when the ending scene in FWWM takes place - it could be 25 years later or whenever, taking the non-linear time in the Lodge into account, and other mysteries surrounding its nature.
I love FWWM, it's my favorite from Lynch and one of my favorite films in general.
Laura doesnt become an angel and there is no heaven. Notice that no one says white or black lodge in FWWM. Its only THE lodge. That's because of the thematic significance Lynch is going for. Twin Peaks is about eastern notions of duality. Leland is both loving father and abusive Bob. Laura is both enfant terrible and homecoming queen. The after life in the lodge is both heaven and hell. The reason Laura is smiling, but also crying, at the end is something of an argument amongst fans. Some say the angel is taking her to the white lodge, but as stated earlier I dont think that works with Lynch's intentions with the lore. Another theory goes that the blue light on her is her watching Twin Peaks and seeing the positive and negative effects her life and death had on the residents of the town. That would explain why shes still in the lodge, because theres only one.
Fun fact: the actor of pic related is confirmed to be in the revival, along with several others who appeared only in FWWM, but not the show.
>>71285014
As for the Lodge(s), I agree with your interpretation of duality, however, that doesn't mean there is nothing beyond the Lodge, heaven for instance. I like to think of the Lodge in its entirety as "the waiting room", although I admit this is a rather loose interpretation.
>The reason Laura is smiling, but also crying, at the end is something of an argument amongst fans
Frankly, I don't see much there to be argued - maybe you disagree. Why is she crying? Tears of joy, hysterical relief? After all the darkness, she's free at last. Seems quite unambiguous to me.
Wherever she's going, if anywhere, something has clearly changed. Her angel has arrived. What it means in regards to the lore, I can't say. There really isn't enough to go on. I also think the afterlife, if there is one, is better left a mystery for a variety of reasons.
>>71285415
>Fun fact: the actor of pic related is confirmed to be in the revival, along with several others who appeared only in FWWM, but not the show.
>We would never see more of the long lost Phillip Jeffries
>>71285481
I will hope for an appearance until Lynch/Frost deny it outright.
I mean, think about it, if he did film a scene or two before his death, which is possible, considering his rather active involvement in the production of his new album, wouldn't that be something they'd keep entirely under wraps?
I know it's silly, but I just can't help myself. If he's not in, I do hope they say so at some point before the premiere, so I don't have to think about it while watching it.
IN ANY CASE, his plotline will definitely get some attention, that much has been confirmed.
People have speculated the character may be played by Tim Roth, if Jeffries does appear.
>>71285668
http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/actors/harry-goaz-new-twin-peaks-script-david-bowie/
We can only hope famalam
I really liked Bowie's performance in FWWM
>>71285668
woah you saying that Bowie could very well likely have filmed a couple scenes and it has been kept a secret all this time?
>>71286891
Extremely unlikely, but yes.
>>71287045
I have faith
red room is nonlinear or maybe just we are 'watching' in an artistic way where laura has maybe sequentially ascended to closure throughout the course of our viewership ending in fwwm.
remember that we see old dale cooper before he is in there due to wyndom earle.
I think the most succinct way to look at the logic of a david lynch movie is from this line from fwwm
'if i had a dime for every cigarette your mother smoked, i'd be dead' or something to that effect.
>>71285668
>>71285934
WE ARE NOT GONNA TALK ABOUT JUDY
>>71287130
>>71287045
actually not so much now reading all the articles stating that he "was" meant to return so looks like they never filmed anything :(
Still would be great if they used a picture of him taken a few years ago - have that flash on the screen during one of the new episodes to show him either still in some type of red room or something.
Since they couldn't film him doesn't mean they can't mention him or like I said photoshop his face in one of the scenes.
I hope Lynch decided to do something like this instead of just leaving his character entirely out and never mentioned again - I doubt Lynch would do that but who knows.
>>71287298
Wait who is Judy again? I forgot
I didn't get this scene.. so did Cooper find some dimensional glitch that made him be stuck on that tv screen while Bowie's character entered or something?
>>71287298
>>71287348
IN FACT, WE'RE NOT GONNA TALK ABOUT JUDY AT ALL.Judy is positive about this.
>>71287522
>It's a "photographs from the set of 90's films are black and white" episode
>>71287522
Imagine entering a job interview office, dressed like Bowie from FWWM and just saying these lines.
We live inside a dream.
>>71288673
HOLY SHIT!
WHERE DID YOU GET THAT FROM?
>>71288673
It looks like it was filmed in the early 2000's with how young Lyle looks
>>71282939
>so why is she still in the red room throughout the tv series when Cooper dreams and sees her there?
It's a doppelganger you dip
>>71288673
more
>>71289015
No, the finale clearly uses white eyes to identify doppelgangers, therefore it's safe to assume she's not a doppelganger since she has normal eyes.
>>71289358
This. Also she tells Cooper who killed her halfway through second season; is obvious it is really her.
>>71288673
OH SHIT.
Just look at that depressed Coop. If BOB is already out of that nigga he's gonna go nuclear.
>>71289725
>he's gonna go nuclear
Indeed.
The scene at the end of FWWM doesn't really take place during the events of FWWM, simply because it's set in the Black Lodge. Cooper only enters the lodge at the end of s2, but since time doesn't flow linearly inside the lodge that means that he's always been there. Just like Annie, who chronologically hasn't left the real world yet, is already inside the lodge, always has been, always will be.
>>71289921
Yeah I figured the ending is set sometime after the events of season 2.Although Cooper is awake in the finale but of course has Bob inside of him - so how does he then become normal again as to help lead Laura away into the light and leave the red room as the ending to FWWM implies
>>71289996
did you read my post?
it is not taking place AFTER s2, it's taking place in a timeline that is completely removed from the world outside the lodge.
it's before, during and after the events outside, all at the same time. Cooper has always been inside the black lodge, always will be.
The Cooper you see outside is his Doppelgänger that leaves the lodge after catching him. The cooper inside is the real coops soul / spirit / consciousness whatever the fuck you want to call it that is condemned to wander the halls of hell / the black lodge for all eternity, just like all the others who have been captured.
It is speculated however that Laura could leave once her Angel appeared, we don't know if that's true however until we see the new season.
>>71285668
>>71285934
>>71286891
>>71287310
i think it would be awesome if Lynch/Frost got the rights to use Bowie's final videos in TP. edit them somewhat and indicate that it's Jeffries on his deathbed and roaming a lodge, as in the videos for Love is Lost and Lazarus, with some Lynch visual additions. doubt this happens, but wouldn't it be a treat?
>>71290194
Yes please I hope Lynch does do this
>>71290194
No, I think that'd be pretty disrespectful and cheap.
>>71290519
how would it be cheap and disrespectful, assuming Lynch/Frost proceed with the blessings of Bowie's family? Soderbergh did something similar using previously filmed material for use in The Limey. it's all just another technique that can be used respectfully in the new narrative.
>>71290194
>wouldn't it be a treat?
..No. That sounds genuinely retarded. Bowie isn't Jeffries. Sure, he gave flavor to the character, but putting a piece of his music video in Twin Peaks? Come on now.
>>71290940
>but putting a piece of his music video in Twin Peaks
No one said music video. Just an image of his face same way they did Paul Walker in Fast 5 near the end of the movie.
>>71290940
uh, no one mentioned Bowie's music, mate, just the already filmed videos. watch the two videos i mentioned, if you haven't already. they both have a surreal quality that can add dimension to the character and fit right in with the odder bits of Twin Peaks. mind you, it's all contingent on obtaining rights, family blessings, and if Lynch/Frost care to continue exploring the character.
like i said, i doubt this will happen, or has even been considered, but i thought i'd put it out there for those who like exploring and speculating on TP lore.
>>71291652
I know. I have watched them, and I never assumed you were talking about the music itself.
I honestly don't understand you at all. How could a piece of a music video - that is completely unrelated to Twin Peaks in any stretch of the imagination - possibly be a positive contribution to the show if edited into it? Just.. what the fuck?
>>71292030
how? well, to continue exploring the character without acquiring the services of a new actor. as i mentioned, the videos can be spliced into lodge footage using some post-production trickery and can conclude his character arc by showing him both wandering the lodge and later on on his deathbed. who cares if the origin of the footage is unrelated to TP if it adds further dimension to the show and character? eh, i stated my case. it's okay if you disagree. it was just a fleeting thought, after all.
>>71292371
I don't know, it just seems tasteless and very uninspired to re-use footage like that. Maybe I'm wrong. Someone as talented as Lynch might be able to pull anything off. I'm just having difficulty imagining it and I dislike the idea on a conceptual level.
>>71282939
it's a great companion piece to the series, but twin peaks is lynch's worst work by far.
it only saw a resurgence in popularity because it got added to Netflix around the same time 90s pop culture and fashion became post-ironic cool.
>>71293197
>worst work by far
Are you referring to FWWM, or the series, or both as a single entity?
I think Fire Walk With Me is his masterpiece.
>>71292371
>>71293166
I don't think we'll see anything like that unless Bowie specifically specified in his will that Lynch was allowed to use his footage like that, or his estate gives the go ahead, neither of which seem likely.
>>71293197
Fire Walk With Me is on netflix?
>>71293360
>>71293360
>>>71293197 (You)
>>worst work by far
>Are you referring to FWWM, or the series, or both as a single entity?
twin peaks altogether.
>I think Fire Walk With Me is his masterpiece.
bro.. hhhhhhowwwww? you've seen all his other work?
>>71293669
wtf is going on with that picture quality
>>71293531
>you've seen all his other work?
I've seen most of it, with the exception of Dune and Elephant Man. FWWM is my favorite, followed by Inland Empire. I know I have a pretty unorthodox taste.
How would you rank his films?
>>71288673
looks like he's seen some shit, dale cooper now a tragic hero?
>>71293918
he doesn't consider Dune his work. so you can skip it. but you should def see Elephant Man.
to put it as simply as I can for the sake of internet comments: i love blue velvet because it is probably his most straightforward /least mind-fuck movie. dennis hopper plays the most terrifying villain I've ever seen
. I love Mulholland drive for mood and soundtrack. inland empire is basically the same movie but has a very different aesthetic which I also liked a lot. it was too long, but it did the best at depicting the delusion/fantasy/dream concepts that he tries to capture with all his movies.
you should read his book. it's a super short & easy read. in it, explains very plainly why he makes the artistic decisions he does. he lso explains the short story that inspired him to make films, he pretty much bases all his movies on this one concept. after reading it, you can laugh at all the plebs who don't get his movies.
>>71288673
>>71294523
He's probably atAudrey'sfuneral
>>71294583
Cute cat.
I like Blue Velvet quite a lot, I'd probably rank it third. The mind-fuck is one of the things I enjoy most about Lynch though.
I never liked Mulholland Drive much, despite some great scenes. Angelo Badalamenti's soundtrack is sublime though, as always.
Inland Empire is batshit insane and I love it. Some of the best portrayals of dream-logic slash occult imagery I've ever seen on film. My first viewing was really late at night, which probably amplified the experience quite a bit.
>you should read his book
I will, thanks for the rec.
I haven't seen FWWM in years but I remember it being complete trash compared to the series. I hope Season 3 has that classic quirky vibe again.
She's watching Twin Peaks at the end.
I love the last scene btw with her and Coop.
>>71293399
oh yeah, no way this happens. i was just dreaming and speculating. i thought those videos would be cool addition to the TP mythos, sort of how Rabbits was molded into Inland Empire. however, i have zero expectations of this happening.
>>71287492
ELECTRICITY
>>71288673
Ahh, this makes me cream my pants in anticipation.
I just pray Lynch still got his touch and isn't just 'cashing in'.
I had great hopes for the X-Files renewal as well, and that just plain sucked, like the writers and directors just didn't give a shit, then again Chris Carter ain't no David Lynch, and the first season of Twin Peaks beats X-files hands down.
>>71296225
He's definitely not phoning it in. He made sure when he negotiated with Showtime that he and Mark Frost had total creative control over the show because he doesn't want another ABC disaster where they forced him to resolve the Laura Palmer mystery - something he never wanted revealed. He even left the show to gain leverage with Showtime and even got 9 more episodes out of it.
Thread theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vOg0HyJpvI
>>71296359
>even got 9 more episodes out of it
This isn't exactly accurate, as the episode count won't be known until after editing is done.
>>71295354
>>71295354
The mind-fuck is one of the things I enjoy most about Lynch though.
i think that's why I like blue velvet so much, it's a departure from his usual abstract style but remains very much bizarre and 100% Lynch.
>I never liked Mulholland Drive much, despite some great scenes
i always appreciated it, but I only came to like it after reading his book. it made so much more sense.
have you seen wild at heart?
>>71296701
That's not how television works. I know Lynch directed all of it like one long movie, but they still have to sign a contract with a certain amount of episodes so Showtime knows what to pay them. They can't just make up a number when they're done. It's 18 episodes.
>>71296813
>Mulholland Drive
It's not that I don't understand it, I've read plenty on it. It just doesn't click with me.
>Wild at Heart
Yeah, I watched it recently. I quite liked it, although I wouldn't count it among my favorites.
>>71296970
>have to
I don't know much about how this works behind the scenes, but are there really no ways around this, considering the unusual nature of the project and the fact that Showtime has never handled anything remotely as ambitious as Twin Peaks? They've already gone out of their way to cater to Lynch's wishes, so I wouldn't be surprised if they changed the rules a bit.
I might be wrong, but, AFAIK, 18 episodes is by no means a confirmed number, it's just something Sherilyn Fenn dropped in an interview or something. Was it the Twin Peaks fest?
Twin Peaks is an overrated show undeserving of its cult status, the episodes Lynch wasn't involved in at all (most of them) are shit.
A good pilot and good finale is not enough to make show good if the rest of it is shit.
>>71298499
Shut up.
I dig the vibe from FWWM better than than the television show. FWWM is definitely my favorite Lynch film, and yes, I've seen all of them. There is just something so deeply disturbing, demented and sad about FWWM that gets me every time.
Mark Frost is okay, but I feel he's the weakest part of the show. But I do respect him in that if he wasn't there to create balance with David Lynch, the show probably wouldn't exist in the first place.
This is my favorite part of the film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWGukDjnhcc
>>71299296
Lynch always kills it with scenes like those.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QBl-BuEIV8
>>71299296
Honestly, I know that this sounds a bit crazy, but FWWM is not only one of the most unique films of the 90s, it's an experience which you can't get anywhere else. It also marks the stylistic change in Lynch's career and sets all the style and tropes for which he is most remembered for.
Mark Frost brought the procedural and the mythology elements (especially the Dugpas and the Dweller on the Threshold stuff) so I think he is as important to the show as David is.
On a different note I'm a total Lynch fanboi, he is my favorite artist and I'm even getting an Eraserhead tattoo.
>>71299296
>>71300344
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrC3Bf-CvHU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHFk0Asaxuo
>red curtains
wew
>>71299296
if that's the scene with the pink room playing in the background then yes sir
>>71285014
I don't understand why people are so reluctant to see the unequivocal optimism present in some of Lynch's stuff. People took the same issue with Blue Velvet, where they were unable to accept that "evil" was "dispelled" by the end of the movie. Just because Lynch's movies often depict vice, cruelty, perversion, and evil doesn't mean they have to end on such a note. Laura breaks free at the end of the movie, and the presence of the angel is evidence that she has indeed redeemed herself, at the cost of her life. The organ like music, resolving into major chords, emphasises the optism of the ending. Whether she goes to heaven I cannot say, it's more likely it's some form of purgatory.
>>71296225
>cream my pants
That's fucking disgusting. I hope you never actually speak those words.
>>71294583
>you should read his book
Would that be Catching the Big Fish?
