that time you almost gave up on film/tv.
>ending of true detective, season 1
>rust turns into a phantasmagorical idiot in the last 5 min
i could stand the pretentious speech about being a pessimist in the first episode, him making antinatalism look flaccid, but i could not listen to that shit where he found god, his little girl, at the end. fuck that shit.
IMO he's not talking about finding God. I thought it was more Lovecraftian than that, and the "living darkness" or whatever he talks about was the TRUE Carcosa that he slipped into while he was between living and dying
>>71118378
how could you take that after rust's stupid conclusion:
>"Well, once there was only dark. If you ask me, the light's winning." -Rust
>>71118137
>hating TD S1 ending
Confirmed pleb who never understood Rust to begin with.
Rust had been lying to himself for years, just like he criticized the people in the rivival tent for doing only he used different lies. His breakdown was him finally accepting that he loved his daughter and was deeply hurt by her loss. All the things he said about things not mattering, about the pointlessness of life, those were just the lies he told himself to rationalize loosing her.
>>71118608
>His breakdown was him finally accepting that he loved his daughter and was deeply hurt by her loss.
And?
>All the things he said about things not mattering, about the pointlessness of life, those were just the lies he told himself to rationalize loosing her.
Explain how they were lies.
>>71118679
Whether or not you are an edgy fedora, he didn't believe them as he told them to himself. That's why they're lies.
>>71118720
>Whether or not you are an edgy fedora
ad hom
>he didn't believe them as he told them to himself.
yeah, he flip flopped with no logic or rationale.
>>71118907
>a throwaway insult is ad hom
I don't know why I expected an atheist to have brains.
And he didn't flip flop, he never believed it in the first place.
>>71118963
>I don't know why I expected an atheist to have brains.
rofl. you actually think im going to spend time denying what there is no proof of my entire life. fucking pleb.
>And he didn't flip flop, he never believed it in the first place.
prove it. and that still says nothing about him being logical or rational about his conclusion.
>he was religious allllll along!111 weeeee
wow, so edgy.
>>71118137
Your mind is small and uncreative
It's not about preaching about God, he just found goodness after an unhappy and brutal life and he saw it as being with his family again
fuck your shit, wiener man
>>71118137
>>71118137
The end made me cryboth times I watched it
>>71119029
It's not about whether he's logical or rational. It's about him confronting what he actually believed and accepting the accompanying pain and catharsis that came with it. Please just return to Reddit, they like your brand of pseudo intellect.
>>71119134
>everyone i disagree with is from reddit
Life is very simple for you, isn't it?
>It's not about whether he's logical or rational.
That's what makes him religious... he's a feely, religious, sjw type.
>>71118137
Don't watch Season 2 now, but watch "Beasts Of NO Nation" instead on Netflix.
>>71119199
It's not about whether you disagree, it's how you do it that makes you well suited for /tv/'s favorite boogeyman. And believe me, you are well suited.
>>71119029
Its got nothing to do with religion. We're talking about a man who, in his own words, only got out of bed in the morning because "its my programming and I lack the constitution for suicide" does that sound normal or healthy to you?
Rust was fucked up from a life of tragedy that he never emotionally dealt with instead he tried to rationalize it all away. You can tell yourself all day long that nothing really matters, and maybe its true, but when something happens like loosing your 10 year old daughter its still gonna hurt like hell. Rust didn't want to let it hurt though, he tried instead to throw himself into his work and just kept telling himself that it didn't really matter but none of that shit can ever really make it go away.
He didn't "find god" at the end, he finally admitted to himself that he missed his daughter and accepted the pain of it.
>>71119201
>Beasts Of NO Nation
i avoided that shit like the plague... collin farrell and vince vaughen? i'd rather pluck my ballsack hairs. i will take a look at your recommendation, thx.
>>71119309
sorry, meant to greentext true detective season 2
Does the second season have a satisfying payoff? Because the first season had little girls going missing and a satanic cult with ties everywhere. That was interesting. Then I get to the second season and it's just contracts going wrong so far.
>>71118137
Rust fpund God the same way I did. By almost getting kill
>>71118137
>this show sucks! they stopped catering to my belief system and now i hate it!
16 year old detected
>>71118137
End yourself pleb, If you don't get Rust final message
>>71119684
a show somewhat tries to have depth and completely fails at the end... and im the 16 year old for expecting more. i suppose that's legit.
>>71119386
I hated S2 ending. I just watched it for the first time recently.
S2 in general was not as bad as I was expecting but it certainly had some serious issues and the ending was one of them.
S1 ending was beautiful if you weren't a moron and actually understood Rust instead of just thinking "omg he's le edgey witty atheist just like me lol xD".
>>71119795
Your entire attitude to the show changed when it stopped aligning with your personal belief's. That is beyond childish
>>71119795
It didn't fail it succeeded flawlessly. S1 is literally perfect television.
>>71119855
>our entire attitude to the show changed when it stopped aligning with your personal belief's. That is beyond childish
Yeah, because it presented itself as logical and rational, but then just turned back into retarded television. forgive me for being disappointed. i didn't know i wasn't allowed to have opinions.
>>71119987
You can have an opinion. No-one is criticizing you for that. People are pointing out that your disappointment to the ending doesn't stem from a narrative failing but your own personal belief's.
You should rewatch it sometime. Rust was never an edgelord that's the point
>>71119987
Fairly certain you're just trolling but >>71119301
That is who Rust was and what he was doing. What do you not understand about that?
>>71120064
>People are pointing out that your disappointment to the ending doesn't stem from a narrative failing
You have not explained why that's the case. Just some plastic, bs response that holds no candle to logic.
>>71118468
>The Andromeda–Milky Way collision is a galactic collision predicted to occur in about 4 billion years between the two largest galaxies in the Local Group
how can you honestly claim that the light isn't winning? don't you realise that this whole thing is about all life becoming sentient so that the universe can experience it's own glorious wonder? Pessimists are the WORST kind of people, nobody wants to be around them and they are either lazy or stupid because it doesn't take much soul searching to find some meaning to life. Have fun being a sad little fuck for the rest of your earthly incarnation faggot.
>>71119987
>because it presented itself as logical and rational
It did nothing of the sort, the part that tells you flat out that Rust's rationalising was harmful and cancerous to him is the one bit you don't want to grasp
>>71120144
It's been explained many times already in this thread. Just because you don't want to accept it won't change what happened.
Protip: Very few changes of heart are because of logic
>>71120184
>how can you honestly claim that the light isn't winning?
Start with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Weu7Rh6dYrM
You're romanticizing your existing through some stupid line.
>>71119987
admittedly the ending wrapped up in an underwhelming way but for the average viewer it was extremely emotional and rewarding. you just didn't enjoy it because /tv/ has turned you into a compulsive contrarian, you lack emotional maturity and let's face it anon you're kind of a dork.
>>71120316
>Protip: Very few changes of heart are because of logic
and that cliche is what made this show shit. it actually tried to have depth and failure ensued in the last 5 minutes.
>>71120405
You seem to be angry that Rust wasn't who you wanted him to be.
If you don't like his character fine but can you at least accept that it was not flip flopping and he never was who you thought he was?
>>71120353
kek you expect me to watch some blurry youtube video about Nigger DeWeed Tyson? The infamous black science man? He's also a sad little fuck just like you. You'll never rethink your life because you're already too conditioned to being depressed and stuck in your ways. Ways that lead to nowhere, to unhappiness, you are just an evolutionary mistake, a chemical imbalance and our species will be all the better for it when you die.
>>71120503
>You seem to be angry that Rust wasn't who you wanted him to be.
no, i seemed to have enjoyed the entertainment until the very end... kind of like that movie sunshine which turned to shit the last 1/3 of the movie.
>Ways that lead to nowhere, to unhappiness
I like how I'm inherently depressed and unhappy... shows how little you understand.
>>71120683
Give us your analysis on Rust pls, who do you think he was.
>>71118963
The entire series is a show and tell of a certain ideology. Rust is used to narrate a perspective of life, and then the episode shows evidence supporting it.
I don't think there's any reason to believe Rust was lying to himself the whole time to cope with his pain. He probably did believe what he was saying. At the very end, however, he changes the way he views it. You can have multiple feelings about a certain truth, and just because you suddenly feel differently about a truth doesn't mean you disagreed with it all along. You can view God or meaninglessness as a truth (as an example, not Rust's position), but how you feel about it, apathy or joy or disdain, doesn't change your belief in it.
Ultimately, the writers show very little evidence for any arguments against Rust's position throughout the series, and I think it's hard to interpret the resolution as a last ditch effort of "oops turned out I was wrong all along." That would simply be poor writing and inconsistent with the overall quality of the series.
>>71119309
I couldn't get two episodes in.
>>71120740
he was a pseudo-antinatalist who wheel chaired his way back into religious gobbledygook in the last 5 minutes. the end.
i didn't realize how stupid his name was until that moment... fucking "rust"... laying it on thick like a writer with an infinite brainfart.
>>71120749
There's plenty of evidence. I think you focused too much on Rust while ignoring the people around him.
Like the scene at the revival tent you think what Marty said to him meant nothing? "For someone who says he doesn't care about existence you sure talk about it allot and why do you always sound so nervous?"
Rust was scared and in pain like everyone else but he wouldnt deal with it he just told himself it didn't matter and tried to distract himself with work.
>>71120824
What was the intention of naming the character Rust?
>>71120904
rust: deteriorate through neglect or lack of use.
>>71120683
>I like how I'm inherently depressed and unhappy... shows how little you understand.
You've accepted your reality and are unwilling to change it. How do i go about changing it? Change your fucking beliefs. They don't have to be "Religious" or the same as anybody else's. They can be completely unique to your individual, hell look at Rust, you think anybody else shared his fucked up way of seeing the world? All of this was a metaphor and it applies to you and your life right now. What you believe dictates your experience. Rust cornered his philosophical outlook into an inescapable circle of finite bounds. Don't be like Rust anon. I pray that by the time you hit your 30's somebody has shown you love or even better you learn to love yourself.
>>71120990
>You've accepted your reality and are unwilling to change it.
You seem to think there's evidence for free will. Explain.
>They can be completely unique to your individual
>individual
There's that word again.... that special word to make us feel all warm and gooey inside... special.
>>71119029
>prove it. and that still says nothing about him being logical or rational about his conclusion.
Prove he believed what he said
>>71120824
I don't see any reason why he can't still be an atheist at the end. He stopped lying to himself about his pain anon that was the point. You're the one making this about religion.
>>71120749
>"oops turned out I was wrong all along."
Also known as an epiphany, not necessarily an indication of poor writing.
Look at it this way, the preacher Rust and Marty talk to in the 90s that Rust goes to see again in the 2000s suffers a crisis of faith and turns to alcohol in the interim, is that an example of poor writing because what he seemed to know to be absolute truth fell away and knocked his legs out from under him?
I agree that he probably didn't just decide in the hospital that he was totally wrong about all his proselytizing, I think what's more important (and what the writers were maybe trying to lead us to) is that Rust no longer seem to prioritize those things, the cliche way of phrasing it, what OP is complaining about, is that he basically discovers that there really is more to life.
It's also not the writers job to provide alternate arguments to Rust's position, it's a piece of fiction, not a debate club. The viewer should know to question even the most apparently reliable protagonist/narrator if they can sense flaws in their character (Rust's obviously buried emotions at the death of his daughter for instance).
>>71121052
evidence for free will = the duality of good/evil and our sovereign right to chose from it
>individual
nobody will ever live your life. you have cemented this short time of being in the universe as yours. whether you want to be or not you are special. i have to say anon, you're not dealing with individual responsibility very well.
>>71121183
>the duality of good/evil and our sovereign right to chose from it
that's a non-answer. elaborate.
>nobody will ever live your life
"unique" =/= individual.
>>71118137
see, this is why lovecraft is good. people go mad, die horribly. that's horror, not a feelfeels ending where everyone survives and has a good time. lovecraft wrote what he knew and he hated people, he hated his life. and that's why it works. it's believable.
This is deteriorating into a religion/free will debate when the actual real world truth of those things is irrelevant.
The consistency of Rusts character in the show is what matter.
>believes that life is pointless and he's just going through the motions
>stop a pedophile/murder cult
>find purpose in life again
MAKES NO SENSE
CHRISHUNS ARE DUM
>>71121303
>The consistency of Rusts character in the show is what matter.
and that consistency of his character was laid to rest in the last 5 min
>>71121183
>elaborate
now you're just baiting. please anon if that wasn't enough then i implore you to go waste your own time learning about free will.
>"unique" =/= individual.
is somebody else experiencing your consciousness right now or are you the only one?
>>71121344
>then i implore you to go waste your own time learning about free will.
>waste your own time
So you admit it's shit. Very well, I accept your white flag
>>71121341
>character growth is awful
>unless he grows into my feelings and belief system more firmly
Get to bed son, it's a school night
>>71120184
Taking "light" as form and "dark" as void, void is infinite and form is finite and therefore, in terms of its relationship to void, nonexistent. lol.
>>71121341
No it wasn't and plenty of arguments to the contrary have been made but you don't refute them you just post about your own personal beliefs.
Is this for discussing the show or just a thinly veiled "I'm an atheist, debate me" thread?
>>71121408
>logical conclusions don't matter
okay, michael bay. enjoy your violence and cliche feelz.
>>71118720
No, the "lie" he told himself was the big one at the end where he rationalized the existence of meaning due to the pathos-inducing effects of what was presumably dopamine release in his brain while physically near death. His pessimistic ramblings before then were logically sound, even though Nikki Pizza intended them to function as lies in his fictional story. The ending of TDS1 might be the most insidious Hollywood-model ending of all time.
>character suffers
>character confronts his suffering with rationality and reaches pessimistic conclusion
>character spends 8 hours expressing this sound but unsavory pessimistic ideology
>in the end, character reverses pessimistic ideology based on his feelings, with no actual rationale behind it
The whole season was comfort food disguised as a bitter truth-pill.
>>71121660
>>71121140
>>71120902
Good pointers. Thanks.
>>71120749
This, there's no evidence that in THIS SHOWS PARTICULAR UNIVERSE Rust's ideology is flawed. In fact he is made more heroic for his rightness and continuing to work on the side of "good" despite it. The ending can't function as an epiphany when he's turning to a world the audience never saw, where people can be happy. The ending fails precisely because it fails the narrative by shoving in implications of a benevolent universe seen NOWHERE else save for Rusts commentary.
Are we forgetting the cult is still out there. It would have been genius had Rust been given a final shot to indicate he was lying for Marty's benefit/ours. But Pizza is a fucking plagiarist hack.
The fact that some of you are commending season 1s ending as some sort of
Moral revelation when it neuters the only morally righteous character in the show is so fucking fitting. It would be ironic but I've come to expect this sort of thing.
>>71121258
The ending is uncharacteristically happy for HPL yes but I would still say the show captured the Lovecraft vibe better than most actual adaptations of his work.
They all make the mistake of thinking his stories are "about" monsters but saying they're "about" monsters is like saying Poe's Telltale Heart is literally about a heart beating in the floor boards, no its about guilt and HPL stories are about existential dread and the insignificance of man.
>>71121774
>It would have been genius had Rust been given a final shot to indicate he was lying for Marty's benefit/ours.
oh shit it would have been.... wtf pizza
>>71121895
Except for it betrays his character when every episode he belittles anyone who disagrees with him.
>>71121895
Before I get called out on it I saw that on bloggers site, The Last Psychiatrist. But he pretty much nailed it.
>>71121962
It would have demonstrated he was actually so defeated by his failure to get the cult that he was willing to give up arguing OR that he was making a slight shift emotionally. Either way better than the hamfisted shit we got
>>71121774
But there are hints Rust was lying to himself. Look at how Marty and his wife deal with him. They never accept his bullshit because they know the real Rust is just a scared hurt man who doesn't wanna admit the truth to himself.
>>71121962
But since Marty ended up being basically the only person Rust felt any fondness for, it makes sense that he would show him some mercy in that regard. That could basically be, in character development terms, the purpose of their evolving character dynamic over the course of the season.
>>71122024
There was literally nothing hamfisted about the ending.
>>71122044
i don't know where you get this idea that Rust was denying he was in pain. You think he was in denial but he denied nothing about his life. It didn't manifest in tears or...whatever it is you think people do when they're depressed.
And the irony of that scene was that Rust still had moral superiority/the truth on his side. He saw the facade for what it was, a very tenuous performance on their part laid low finally when the wife fucks him. Another nail in the coffin of this "true" world you think Rust is avoiding but that doesn't exist at all in the show.
Remember it's tv. Not real life. We're not supposed to say "But Rust could go to therapy or the Grand Canyon!" What's there is there, and I don't see Rust lying to anyone about his condition just sublimating it to some extent.
>>71122194
That's the entire debate of the thread. Why not contribute to what's already been said instead of starting over again. Or is this the extent of /tv/'s mental capacity
>>71122194
Oh really? He epic 2 on one super strength fight scene? The FUCKING INTERDEMENSIONAL PORTAL? The abrupt shift in character for the sake of an ending that was supported by neither tone or narrative? The ending was a catastrophe.
Or it would have been if the show hadn't gone down hill after episode 4 which is right around where pizzolato stopped stealing that guys ideas/words.
>>71122207
The whole point of his character is that he never dealt with his greif he repressed it and in the end he finally deals with it I don't understand why you can't see that.
It was like the opposite of the Sopranos ending, which is a bad thing.
Sopranos:
>constant humor
>characters telling themselves they care about each other
>Tony trying to solve his depression thru therapy
>muh Catholicism
>muh rock and roll music
>cut to black, it's all fucking shit
TD:
>Rust laying out exactly how meaning in life is impossible
>constant barrage of nihilistic imagery
>characters constantly at each other's throats
>but wait, Marty, while in a literal unconscious state i saw god
>ends with big "muh daughter, muh theism" monologue
>>71121469
>my perception of this character and situation is objectively 100% correct
>logic
>>71119309
Colin Farrell is actually the best thing about it, but you're right to stay away, don't bother with S2
>>71120184
>tfw we were born 4 billion years too soon
Even your positive thinking is triggering me
>>71122207
>>71122312
I think I need to clarify the "truth" that I think Rust was denying.
I think the message of the show is that life is strange and painful and scary. We're all just people alone in the void searching for meaning/comfort. Rust lied to himself by telling himself he was above that.
All the facts in the world don't take away the pain of loosing a child. You can know that it doesn't really matter, that there was no point in your existence or hers and you can be right but that doesn't take the pain away.
In the end he accepted that.
>>71118679
Harold and Maude my negro
>>71122312
You just stating what happens doesn't say anything about if it was well done, made sense, or was necessary in the first place. If Rust had jumped up out of the chair and they had sung a little number about rust feeling better that would also have been what you're describing, but it would have been just as inexplicable and out of place (well a little moreso). See what I'm saying?
>>71120184
>free will
>implying
>>71122523
>loosing
Every fucking time. But in all seriousness this gets my upvote ;^)
>>71122534
I don't think it was out of place though, there were hints all along.
Marty and his wife knew this >>71122523 that's why they stood by him even though he was kind of a dick.
They knew he was a deeply hurt man who needed comfort even though he wouldn't admit it, even if he couldn't see it himself they could and you could to if you weren't just jerking it to Rust.
>>71121183
good and evil are human terms, contrivances of human consciousness to give us the illusion we somehow operate on some meaningful plane. anything we interpret or extract from the universe is mere human biology relaying information back and forth to create dichotomies that would not exist without our being. the duality you speak of is not objective, its an interpretation. morality is not relative, these are all constructs, concepts which can't be measured or tested much like our own consciousness. the universe the way see it is a product of human projection and it always will be.
>>71122523
First of all, again, I'm not seeing where Rust ever implied he wasn't in pain.
And second, you're positing that Rust learned to deal with the pointlessness of her death BUT THAT DOESNT JIVE WITH THE ENDING YOU ACCEPT! He says he feels her presence or some shit! So which is it? Are we grounded in reality and people die and that's it or is there some force in the universe taking care of dead daughters?
I object to more with your post but I'm not gonna get into it
>>71121774
Couldn't agree a whole lot more with this. I still really like S1, but the ending is a blemish.
>>71122787
He pretty much tells the officers he's glad she's gone, I can't remember the exact words now but its before he goes into that thing about "the hubris of bringing a soul out of non existence into this meat grinder, this thresher." That's obvious bullshit no one would ever be glad their kid was gone, he missed her like anyone would.
Rust was living a toxicly hopeless life. This was a man who again by his own words only got out of bed in the morning because "its my programming and I lack the constitution for suicide" that's not sustainable. He didn't have reasons to live he just had reasons not to die.
If he remained like that the logical end for him would be suicide and they even hint he was considering that. When Marty asks why he came back he pretty much says he felt he needed to finish the case before offing himself.
Instead though in the end Rust finally let's himself take a little comfort and I don't see that as a bad ending at all.
>>71118679
You can't lie about your very nature, Rust indeed is a pessimistic, depressed as fuck nihilist and no dreams of his dead daughter can change that.
>>71123247
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_im-iJrTz10
>>71123247
I'm tired of debating this, if you want to give Rust a "happy" ending that's fine I guess, but you would have to rewrite swathes of the show as it was to justify that swiitch.
Rust was right. IN THAT UNIVERSE, nothing save for his work was worth it's. We can ASSUME there are happy families out there, high functioning human beings, but we didn't see any if that. Instead we had to just take Rusts word for it that he was ok with a massive cult
Of demon worshipping pedophiles was still out there. He didn't even finish his fucking case really. I think you've let your fondness for the character cloud your ability to assess the show, strangely enough. Like you just want him to be happy, which is nice but I don't agree with it.
>>71123413
Yea "when I think about what she was spared, I'm greatful"
He was talking about her being "spared" life because to him existence is "a meat grinder, a thresher" that's obviously fucked up bullshit no one would ever really feel that way about the life of their child.
>>71123247
>He pretty much tells the officers he's glad she's gone, I can't remember the exact words now but its before he goes into that thing about "the hubris of bringing a soul out of non existence into this meat grinder, this thresher." That's obvious bullshit no one would ever be glad their kid was gone, he missed her like anyone would.
He wasn't glad she was gone. He may have been glad she didn't have to endure any potential suffering, but his point was that he made a mistake in bringing her into the world. He didn't regret the life of his daughter, he loved her. He was referring to his own hubris for thinking he had the right to create life, "The sin of being a father."
But I wasn't even reading what you replied to so maybe I'm talking out of context.
>>71123673
>>71123413
That is what he said
>>71123593
That is what I think it meant
>>71123562
I think you just chose to see it as the "Rust is right show! Costarring Marty the idiot!" Because it aligned with your personal beliefs but I don't think that's what the writers intended.
>>71123593
>that's obviously fucked up bullshit
It's true though.
>>71118137
>but i could not listen to that shit where he found god
I know it's bait, but it still triggers me. You play such a convincing idiot.
>>71123593
People think that about their lives all the time, I do and I'd consider myself a Nihilist. Life is inherently difficult, you never ask for it but here you are, you have to live it so you don't let the people who brought you into it.
Life IS a meat grinder, no amount of kumbayas and holding hands doesn't change that fact. She was spared of the hardships of life by not partaking in life. Rust is absolutely right and he IS grateful in the sense he's talking about.
I was born into a middle-class family who love me and some were born only to grow up and be shipping off to die on the Eastern front sticking bayonets into other human fucking beings.
>>71123814
Only good reply in this thread.Too bad people will think you're samefagging, fucking trip.
>>7112378
You're the one who's argument is hinged on some sort of redemption, a quality we don't see anywhere else in the story. What you have to throw away in order to be satisfied with your interpretation is staggering.
He didn't find God or anything like that, just a glimmer of hope. Pizzolatto did an interview where he clarified that.
>>71120316
>Protip: Very few changes of heart are because of logic
wow that really made me think
>>71123814
Read >>71121660
And then explain why you said that.
>>71118378
>people are still touting this Lovecraft meme
>>71118137
he had a near death experience that made him realize that living and fighting for whats right in the world is better than being a pessimist and wallowing in shit.
>>71123998
Don't think too hard, hun.
>>71123950
Yeah I sure could see a glimmer of hope with a depressed as fuck Rust turning off the television set right when the anchorwoman says the deceased "was not related in any way to Billy Lee Tuttle" and when he unloads his pent up feelings to his partner that can barely say anything meaningful or emotional to the guy in the moment.
He knows he barely scratched the surface of what was going on, so I'd really like to see where this glimmer of hope is.
>>71123782
>>71123841
But its not how anyone feels about their kids.
Rust thought knowing all the things he knew made him better than other people, stronger, that was the lie he told himself that he didn't need hope or comfort because everything was pointless.
Marty's response to him at the revival tent is one of many scenes that illustrates that Marty knew Rust was lying to himself.
>>71124262
>But its not how anyone feels about their kids.
I'm sorry, are you a parent? You don't know how anyone feels about their kids, there are people that murder their fucking kids.
>Rust thought knowing all the things he knew made him better than other people, stronger, that was the lie he told himself that he didn't need hope or comfort because everything was pointless
He didn't think it made him stronger, he knew just how weak he was. Both his and Marty's weaknesses are showcased every episode. He's not lying to himself, that is genuinely his belief and philosophy. I can relate to some of the ways he look at things.
>Marty's response to him at the revival tent is one of many scenes that illustrates that Marty knew Rust was lying to himself.
Not to be the fedora or anything and despite my love and appreciation for the Christian faith and philosophy, he's absolutely right about what he's saying. The way I look at things, it's illogical to buy into that without any clear cut evidence, the best way a human can live his or her life is to live a life of knowledge and reason and to live in accorade of nature.
Marty only got after him because he can't comprehend the way Rust thinks, seemingly nobody can in this show.
Check out Stoic philosophy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism
>>71124262
You're reaching so hard for the lamest interpretation, it's bizarre. How do you reconcile the fact that the rest of the cult doesn't get found. That they took a sippy cup full of the ocean of evil out of the equation? "Well rust is ok with it!" Is that really all you've got?
>>71118137
Not accepting antinatalism.
2016
>>71124567
Are you a parent? I certainly hope that's not how you see your kids and do you really think that's how Rust saw his little girl?
He did think it made him stronger he rejected all comfort, he thought he didn't need it cause he knew the truth.
Rust was criticizing them for needing comfort but he needed the same thing and Marty knew it.
Rust isn't a man at the start of the series he's a set of facts and ideas, he's like a machine. At the end we see he's human.
It was a good ending. They could have made a dark ending work too but this one was good.
>>71122375
Sopranos ending is goat what the duck is wrong with you?
>>71124804
>Are you a parent? I certainly hope that's not how you see your kids and do you really think that's how Rust saw his little girl?
He believes his daughter was spared from an undeterminable future, and in a way he was grateful of not having to carry the burden of children being of the parent and inheriting sins of the father.
>He did think it made him stronger he rejected all comfort, he thought he didn't need it cause he knew the truth.
He didn't think it made him stronger, he believed it made him a more logical person and set him on a different plane than anyone else to which he could see the Universe for what it inherently is.
>Rust was criticizing them for needing comfort but he needed the same thing and Marty knew it.
He already had some semblance of comfort in the way he viewed his being and the universe he's inhabiting. Obviously the guy knew he needed emotional support, but he wasn't lying to himself about it. So what if he's being hypocritical? That has nothing to do with anything.
>Rust isn't a man at the start of the series he's a set of facts and ideas, he's like a machine. At the end we see he's human.
No, we see a human being who acts rationally and logically with no bullshit to infest his life. He lives an efficient life because that's naturally how anyone should live their lives.
>It was a good ending. They could have made a dark ending work too but this one was good.
The ending was fucking dark, are you kidding me? They didn't get all of the cultists and they KNEW they couldn't. See what this guy>>71124684 said.
>>71125113
I can hardly tell who's arguing for what anymore since now you're saying the ending was dark when before you seemed to think it was too happy.
All I know is I came into this thread liking the ending and I'm going out of the thread liking the ending.
I can see how some of your points make sense but I don't think the way you interpret the show is the only way to interpret it. Like I said before you seem to approach it as the "Rust is right show! With Marty the idiot!" And I don't think that's the only way to look at it and I don't see why you can't accept any alternate view.
>>71118137
He didn't find god you fuckin idiot.
He was still the person he always was, he just finally opened up to Marty after a near death/maybe even totally dead for a bit experience.
Rust was never a nihilist. Rust never became religious.
>>71125356
Nowhere did I say the ending was happy, it's possible to be posting with multiple people you know.
>All I know is I came into this thread liking the ending and I'm going out of the thread liking the ending.
Like it all you want, I loved the ending personally. It's not a good ending, it's not a bad ending it's just an ending to a story. You can't catch everyone, so people looking for escapism where the good guys win won't find any comfort here, just as they wouldn't in the real world.
>Like I said before you seem to approach it as the "Rust is right show! With Marty the idiot!" And I don't think that's the only way to look at it and I don't see why you can't accept any alternate view.
And like I said before, that wasn't me. Rust is right about a lot of things I feel and so is Marty, they're just different people.
>>71125401
I think it's safe to say Rust is a nihilist.
>>71125356
It's extremely important to get into the way Rust views the Universe, this is actually one of the most overlooked aspects of Rust: his belief of M-theory.
To many like myself, the knowledge that the fourth -dimension probably exists is an extremely perplexing experience. It's almost indescribable how many implications it has on your existence.
>>71125534
Well I apologize if I confused you with someone else but you seemed to be expressing allot of the same sentiments
>>71125635
Well I imagine I'm not the only one that feels the same way about Rust.
>>71125623
What fourth dimension m8?
>>71126074
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-theory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-dimensional_space
>>71126172
2hard4me
>>71125356
Yeah I'm the guy you're confusing with the other guy. I've backed up my take on the ending being a failure in a number of ways. You've never commented on what positive way of living rust is turning to, where we can see that ANYWHERES else in the show. You haven't explained how he's supposed to deal with the cult. I'm not saying Rust' logic makes sense in the real world, where there are many happy people with valid existences. But you have to look at what we saw in the show itself- it is TRAGIC, it is FUCKED UP, that Rust Feels ok about what has happened. He fucking lost. If it was Pizzas intention to have it be some sort of meta commentary as some posters have said, more credit to him but I don't think he's capable.
I think the ending was an absolute copout because they didn't know how to deal with Rust catching the guy but failing to get the cult, so they gave him some horse shit monologue about feeling his daughter - a line he would have laughed at one episode earlier, have his wits so abandoned him?
I'm not glad you liked the ending. I think people like you in the writer room helped make the show worse, but that's alright. I've said all I can say.
>>71126239
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN4KC_zlW4g
Ten minutes of your time and you might end up feeling a little smarter than you were ten minutes before, it's seriously not that hard to comprehend and it's really telling how much this knowledge has a direct effect on Rust.
>>71118137
>character development is bad
>>71118137
>that time you almost game up on film/tv
Reading this thread, except not almost but did
>>71126284
this is still 2hard4me. I don't know what's a dimension anymore.
>>71126267
>a line he would have laughed at one episode earlier, have his wits so abandoned him?
Not him, but you can attribute that to anything. The guy had a near-death experience and was obviously on medication from his wounds. He got emotional, but it doesn't matter because emotions don't destroy character. Who's to say the guy doesn't break down once in awhile? He's a human being, you don't see the guy living 24/7.
It's logical to assume Rust's perspective on the world hasn't changed but the guy can at least give himself and families a sliver of comfort. Or maybe he killed himself a week later.
>>71126284
Spare me your science mumbo jumbo, just give it to me in plain English doc
>>71126431
The guy is explaining it in one of the best ways possible, maybe this show is a little too complicated for you.
>>71126494
m8 i don't even understand what dimensions are really
>>71126267
This to be honest.
>>71126476
The fourth dimension consists of frames of spacetime within the same dimension, matter superpositioned in every place in the lower dimensions it inhabited. You exist in the fourth dimension as every unit of time you've ever existed, moment of birth until your death, forever going backward and forward in synchronous existence.
There's a section of you in the fourth dimension typing out that reply to me forever, and the shit you took hours ago, all in beautiful simultaneous existence.
Think about how Rust would feel about this, somewhere in existence the death of his daughter, the murders of those little girls, they are happening all the time, from the beginning of time till the end of time. Human suffering, pain and misery being rewound, played and fast forwarded.
>>71126694
Wave your arm around like a retard and you just traveled through three dimensions.
>>71126808
sounds retarded
>this entire thread and the people agreeing with OP
>>71126917
Indeed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJVj5Xb_O4I
OP is probably one of those folks who think "le grim dark depressing endings is le so deep XD"
this meme died fast thankfully
>>71126751
>Think about how Rust would feel about this
how do you know he had that philosophy? because of the flat circle thing?
OP is a very great example of hipster nihilism and how it is a cancer to the film enthusiast community.
It's possible to be a nihilist and still find beauty in existence, that's what Rust learned with his experience. Life is still ultimately meaningless, but he realized that his own journey didn't have to be, and that it's okay to miss his family even though he knows it doesn't matter in the big picture anyway.
>>71127125
He talks directly about M-theory in this video>>71127027
>>71127133
Rust is a pessimist and pessimism is still compatible with nihilism. Nothing indicates he's not a pessimist anymore at the end.
>>71127210
The whole "light's winning" speech at the end shows he at least had a little ray of hope in him.
>>71126267
Rust had an extreme near death experience and a suicide attempt. It's completely within reason that what happened to him in Carcosa had changed him as a person.
>>71127333
No it isn't.
>>71127125
https://youtu.be/VbcwAPZycGE?t=2m15s
Also what he says here is really important in understand it. "a dream you had inside a locked room" is what Rust means by the fourth dimension. There was a sort of "hidden knowledge" the victims couldn't access, the knowledge of their own deaths, knowledge "they" experienced.
>>71127261
Sure, but he could also just be hopped up on drugs and emotional from being nearly ripped apart for a ritual sacrifice.
>>71126284
im dude weed lmao right now and this vid was trippy as fuck.
>>71127345
How is it not? We, the audience, only ever saw him at the most vulnerable moment of his entire life in the last scene. It's completely reasonable that he would confide his newfound outlook on life to his closest friend (who saved his life) but still would have a similar personality. Surviving such a traumatic experience and getting semi-closure on something that haunts you would definitely change your outlook on life.
>>71121660
It's know than feelings can more than the rational mind. Isn't really that surprising
>>71127467
>people
>changing
kek. Changing is just a children's tale.
>>71127529
Not really. We change a lot
>>71127442
Dude same.
>>71127564
It's always the same habits, you only pick up more addictions as you go along.
>>71118137
Heaven might be real op. You and I have no idea.
No one really knows. It's why they call them "beliefs"
btw you're a huge faggot for even making this thread.
>>71127626
Go to bed, Rust
>>71120184
this desu.
good point anon.
>>71120184
>The Andromeda–Milky Way collision is a galactic collision predicted to occur in about 4 billion years between the two largest galaxies in the Local Group
An event you will never see you moron.
>>71120184
>don't you realise that this whole thing is about all life becoming sentient so that the universe can experience it's own glorious wonder?
You can still be pessimistic because so many others don't realize this and that's why they turn to things like organized religion or nihilism instead.
>>71127636
Flying pigs might be real. You and I have no idea.
No one really knows. It's why they call them "beliefs"btw you're a huge faggot for posting your special snowflake noncommital nonsense
>>71120184
The universe is expanding. Collisions are precursors to an everlasting dark you unfathomable fucking retard.
>>71118137
>>71120184
>>71120528
That's some top-tier romanticizing about life for absolutely no reason.
Where in the evolution of life on Earth do you draw the line and say "Okay, this is beautiful."
>>71127753
If only more people realized this just kidding this philosophical position is garbage that breaks down into pure sentimentality under scrutiny.
this thread has more stimulating philosophical/existential discussion than anything ive read on /lit/. good job guys.
>>71127862
It's not a philisophical position so much as something that either clicks with you one day or never does. Most people need assistance through hard drugs.
>>71127918
philosophical*
>>71127918
>Most people need assistance through hard drugs.
>woaaaaah man like, DMT and shrooms totally make me understand what everything is all about bro
Fucking kill yourself, moron.
>>71127762
Kek. le edge triggered man, cool yourself.
>>71118137
Rust stayed an existentialist done right, straight up to the end. The only thing that was tempered was his pessimism
>>71118963
A godfag?
What has 4chan come to
>>71127918
The cool thing about philosophy is that it's compelling regardless of your mood or hormones, if you arrive at a conclusion through reason then it's repeatable over and over you don't go appreciating the beauty of life one day and then decide life sux when something bad happens.
>>71127978
Anon, you have some issues I think. I hope you get those worked out.
>>71127978
Calm your anus.
I don't automatically discredit things I come to realize on drugs just because. I shouldn't have to explain why being narrowminded puts you at a disadvantage all around.
>>71127468
>It's know than feelings can more than the
>>71127979
You're the only one triggered here m8, your own "agnostic" logic can so easily be used against yourself because it's the usual rationalization for fence sitting.
>>71128056
>I shouldn't have to explain why being narrowminded puts you at a disadvantage all around.
this
anon that this pertains to. realize this and you will become a better person.
>>71127918
There are plenty of ways to come to philosophical positions anon, including initiation via life experience
>>71128045
>>71128056
The only thing mind altering drugs does for you is to make it perfectly clear just what "you" are and you're a brain that's very susceptible to certain chemicals.
I've done my fare share of drugs, and it's left me with the understanding that the way they made me feel in retrospect was nothing I couldn't have achieved on my own without their use. It's escapism for whatever reason you want, I don't judge because I don't care. Just don't go waving it around like some grandiose adventure of existence and the universe because it's nothing.
>>71128092
anon I hold christian beliefs, but they are my own special version of it. no need to put a label on me, I like that you rush to that though. You seem to be in defensive mode for some reason. Why anon?
>>71128024
>you don't go appreciating the beauty of life one day and then decide life sux when something bad happens
Some things you can't take with you, there is only a short window of time to experience a sensation of unity and inner peace or whatever. The most you can do is remember it happened to you and that it's no less real because your mind isn't designed to handle that every day.
>>71128203
>I've done my fare share of drugs, and it's left me with the understanding that the way they made me feel in retrospect was nothing I couldn't have achieved on my own without their use.
see that is your opinion, and that's perfectly fine. that's how it was for you..
For me..
doing LSD once was enough to change my perspective on quite a few things, and I am almost positive without that one experience with lsd. I'd never had developed those thoughts.
Who knows though. That's just me.
>>71128203
>the way they made me feel in retrospect was nothing I couldn't have achieved on my own without their use
you couldnt know that.
>>71128203
>I've done my fare share of drugs, and it's left me with the understanding that the way they made me feel in retrospect was nothing I couldn't have achieved on my own without their use
Your anecdotal evidence doesn't trump my own, and seeing as our respective experiences are entirely subjective, I don't know what point you're trying to make other than that you can get high on life or something. Which is just a lie.
>>71128209
You're the only one here that's on the defensive, the fact that your own agnostic logic can be used to defend a wide variety of positions such as "magical dragons can be real, you and I have no idea" is proof of just what a weak defense it is. Accusing me of being on the defensive is just the usual passive aggressive pettiness, respond to the meat of my argument why don't you?
>>71126284
>length, width, height, duration
excellent!
>>71128270
>I don't know what point you're trying to make other than that you can get high on life or something. Which is just a lie.
Spoken like a true degenerate.
>>71128297
Actually I do know that, because I've understood what I believe I understand even before my drive into drugs.
>>71128270
That's fine, I'm cool with that so I do apologize for flying off the handle but I just find it highly unnecessary for someone to have to take a psychedelic to think they understand things better.
>>71128339
>"magical dragons can be real, you and I have no idea"
You act like dinosaurs didn't exist anon. lol?
Last reply from me. You're the type of person that isn't going to change their opinion on anything and is obviously the closed minded one here. Sucks for you.
>>71128376
Top meant for >>71128310
>>71128209
I should add that I don't care whether you identify as agnostic or not, the term agnostic is heavily misused and few people care to research agnosticism, instead having their own definitions of it, most of them being something along the lines of "atheism lite".
>>71128376
I never said it would work for everyone, just that it works in theory. I don't even fuck with the shit anymore, because crashing from these types of drugs sends you into a downward spiral that is as bad as the previous experience was good. You have to pay the piper and it's a fucking nightmare.
>>71128413
Was I being baited this whole time?
>>71128310
>I don't know what point you're trying to make other than that you can get high on life or something. Which is just a lie.
What the fuck? Fucking degenerate.
>>71127978
different anon but if you don't think drugs can achieve this you're wrong.
>>71128484
You physically cannot get high unless you are using a substance to get high, this isn't philosophy, it's a fact. Your brain releases endorphins and shit from exercise and shit but that's not getting high.
>>71128548
Oh. I thought you were implying you could not enjoy life without the use of substances.
>>71128577
No, you jumped to that conclusion for some reason.
>>71128577
Enjoying life is just a myth anyway.
>>71128548
>>71128592
>>71128590
So we're just going to change what "high on life" means?
Why not, we live in a postmodern shithole. Your subjective experience is your subjective experience, but to have to use drugs to come up with your philosophy is just lame. That's my point.
>>71128521
>drugs allow me to access new parts of my brain
do you even into any science related?
If the drugs give you an idea, it's not your idea faggot
>>71128652
No one said you had to, but you can if you want and it really doesn't make a difference if you do or not.
>>71128590
I've seen people make that argument before. My apologies.
>>71128592
At least you didn't say "just a meme."
>>71128670
This might be the most retarded, hypocritical post I've read thus far.
>>71128708
Mythology is just a long lasting meme anyway.
>>71128592
And whatever the fuck this means, bet it sounded really cool in your head as you were typing it.
>>71128686
I'm not saying anybody is telling me to do that.
>>71128670
It's your idea since you came up with it at the "assistance" of a drug but it's a retarded way to come up with philosophical ideas and almost 100% not in any way trustable.
>>71128548
This is empirically wrong.
Why would you even think this?
>>71128738
>bet it sounded really cool in your head as you were typing it.
I was just meming m8 though to be honest lately I've been feeling emotionally detached like everything is unreal and there's this buffer between me and my body preventing me from experiencing reality fully and being really alive.
>>71128759
I suppose if you had a massive brain tumor near your pineal gland you'd be 'getting high on life'
>>71128738
>almost 100% not in any way trustable.
Explain how.
>>71128837
That's good for you, why don't you go take some more drugs? I'm sure that'll help.
what the fuck is this thread about.
>>71128922
I don't do drugs m8 that shit's for suckers.
>>71128916
You're not in the right state of mind to properly process sensory information which all the faculties feed information to your brain to process.
Sensory information is everything you know about the Universe.
>>71128989
What if your brain in it's natural state isn't necessarily the "correct" one, it's just the default one?
>>71128885
Right, for a start. Also intense life experiences can completely overload you, as well as lots of other disorders of the central neural system.
>>71129043
This is like saying you can get high on schizophrenia.
>>71129040
I'm saying the "default" mental state of your brain is the proper one to use when trying to comprehend life, existence and the world you are in.
What do you mean by correct?
>>71129084
Are you really that surprised that things other than drugs can cause a chemical imbalance in the brain?
You are a special kind of retarded or just b8ing at this point.
>>71129084
Do you seriously not understand what the guy is getting at?
>>71129108
>proper
>What do you mean by correct?
I mean there is no right or wrong way to comprehend your existence. Some people aren't even capable of understanding the conversation we've had so far in their natural state. Whether or not drugs were used, doesn't fucking matter.
>>71129145
>>71129122
Don't be dense. A chemical imbalance isn't the same thing as getting high.
>>71129177
Correct and proper aren't the same words, dingus.
>>71128203
>Hey everyone check out my sweet anecdotal evidence that totally proves that everyone but me is an idiot
>>71129240
>A chemical imbalance isn't the same thing as getting high.
A high IS a chemical imbalance.
>>71129255
You're an idiot, at least try and read what I'm saying.
>>71129240
Wait, do you believe in an immortal soul or something?
>>71129246
No shit but they definitely suggest the same thing, which is that there is a right and wrong way to have a subjective experience like the realization of your existence and the universe.
plz make me kek and post coming for my files noce ass marty mowing my grass memes
>>71128009
4chan got older and became an adult. Fedora loving faggot
>>71129317
Crack open a dictionary, bud.
>>71129304
There is nothing I've said so far that should have drawn you to that conclusion, try not to malufunction so badly.
>>71129346
Well I'm glad we had this talk.
>>71129362
malfunction*
>>71129403
Me too, it's just sad one of us refuses to engage because he doesn't want to learn the difference between two words.
>>71129444
No, it's a shame one is a nitpicking pedantic cunt.
>>71129476
I'm sorry you're upset that words have different meanings and it doesn't help your argument but without understanding the words you don't fucking understand what I'm saying.
>>71129506
>>71129564
>proper
2.of the required type; suitable or appropriate.
"an artist needs the proper tools"
>correct
1.
free from error; in accordance with fact or truth.
"make sure you have been given the correct information"
>>71129276
Define chemical balance.
>>71130553
I'm not sure if it was by accident or not, but this is a post far too clever for the rest of this thread
>>71130995
How dare you accuse me of being accidentally clever.
>>71130553
natural brain activity
>>71131071
As opposed to supernatural brain activity?
>>71131119
As opposed to unnatural.
>>71131154
Define unnatural without using the word natural.
>>71131179
>unnatural
contrary to the ordinary course of nature; abnormal.
>>71131200
How can you tell what's the ordinary course of nature and what's unnatural?
>>71118137
Oh so you're a Republican fedora who's never done high doses of psychoactive drugs before.
Keep voting Trump, friendo.
>>71119029
Inject some DMT into your veins and say there is no proof.
You're probably just a gay Mormon who became atheist because you're ugly.
>>71119201
I watched it.
What's the fucking point?
And Elba didn't deserve the Best Actor nom like people said he did.
