>NATHAN, AVA IS EVIL
why didn't he listen to him?
>>70952462
because he was a beta cuck
>>70952462
Can a prisoner who kills his captors to escape be considered evil?
>>70954054
Ava isn't human, so not a prisoner
Well done, Nathan, well done, Nathan.
HOWEVER--
>>70952462
It doesn't matter if he listened to him or not. Ava is a fucking computer. You know, with a superbrain.
She would get what she wanted either way. The only way she wouldn't is if she didn't talk to the ginger guy at all.
>>70954094
She's sentient, wants to leave, is experimented on against her will. Isn't that reason enough for her to be pissed?
>>70954342
no, oscar man was her creator, hence he has complete authority over her. He's her god and she's his creation. I guess it depends on your cultural view pointfuck the greeks and their bullshitbut I think most of us would agree you shouldn't fuck with your creator
>AVA IS THE SITH LORD
I fucking hate these references
>>70954342
i dont think she is sentient because she was programmed to want to escape by any means. She only pretends to be sentient by the nature of her programming that is the irony of the story.
Machines cannot be sentient because they cannot go against their programming they can mimic it but they can never truely comprehend thinking for themselves because they will always operate on a set parametre however exeedingly complex does not allow it to self determine or develop outside those constraints.
>>70954691
p sure humans also operate on a set of parameters (cultural, etc)
>>70954642
Don't we all rebel against our parents at some point? And technically, they are our makers
>>70954691
It's hard to discuss for/against it, because you come from the assumption that creating a real AI is impossible, and it was just a movie, and we don't really know what the rules were in that world. I always thought of her to be the first 'real' AI.
Yes, yes - well done Nathan, well done Nathan!
>However
>>70954788
yeah well, like I said though, fuck the greeks. We do operate on this liberating mindset but on a bigger scale (not reproduction, but CREATION) you owe obedience to your god.
>>70954863
What if there is no god, and reproduction is the only form of creation (so far)?
>>70954895
doesn't matter. God exists in culture, whether you like or not and whether you consciously believe or not there is some form of god ingrained in every culture. Everywhere there's the dynamic of creator and creation and it's just human nature to make up this stuff.
Now if we look at it like that we are machine's gods because we created them (david from prometheus has a good reading on this matter btw).
>>70952462
>A robot, capable of evil
you're missing the point
>>70955021
Well, if you look at it with an outside perspective, it's still questionable, but you may have a point.
But if you are a being that is mistreated by his creator it's only natural for you to riot..
>>70952462
>Nathan, im a dangerous psychopath, im also an alcoholic with anger management problems, i have severe social autism and i might activly trying to get myself killed
Why didnt he listen?
>>70952462
because he needed the BAD PUSSAY
>>70952462
>he's Nathan
>>70954099
>he's Caleb
>>70954691
>i dont think she is sentient
what you think dosnt matter
she fits every criteria, the fact that in the end she is creative enough to beat both her captors by designing tools and complex plans based around manipulating human emotions and then puting everything in motion is proof enough
>Machines cannot be sentient because they cannot go against their programming they can mimic it but they can never truely comprehend thinking for themselves because they will always operate on a set parametre however exeedingly complex does not allow it to self determine or develop outside those constraints.
This is just your personal assumption, this wont be true of machines we build in the future, we already can make software that can search and gather information, we already build simple artificial neuron networks and quantum computers. We are literally only few decades away from making computer chips as advanced as human brains, maybe even within our lifetime.
Problem so far was that the human brain is way too complex to anything we can build with modern technology, we still are not exactly sure how many neurons a human brain has, and all the estimates are hilariously far apart form each other, but even at 100billion neurons each of which behaves like its over transistor network it will be a long time before we will match that kind of computing power which clearly is needed for sentient life.
>>70955949
it's still a lifeless, soulless machine that just simulates a human and later something much smarter but even then its still a distant cousin to the toaster
>>70952462
How can a machine be evil?
Is a lion evil if it eats its captors?
>>70954342
You're an idiot and deserve the same prolonged death as that cuck caleb.
>>70952462
because he's a skinny beta faggot
good god i hate domhall's appearance so much
>>70955949
talk robots who can mimic normal answers aren't sentient. They just have a huge data base of response algorithms and analyse questions, responces very quickly. She new exactly when Caleb fell in love when her, just by recognising small muscle movement or something like that.
>>70956208
She still managed to analyze her prison create tools to get out, and plan ahead.
If you cant tell a difference between two objects in any way, then those 2 objects are the same.
And if you cant tell a difference between a machine and a human the distinctions loses any sense.
To me she was more alive than Nathan, who seemed to lack even the basic concept of empathy or self preservation.
>>70956386
Before Caleb came in she was overloading the power grid already to get out. also she kept moving like a robot when she escaped as you can see here>>70954099
You also forget that she had access to the whole google company database and could basicly search and compare everything she saw.
She also had access to Calebs search history, wich is the reason he got chosen anyway. To see if the Ava could mimic love.
>>70956555
>also she kept moving like a robot
kek, you serious?
>You also forget that she had access to the whole google company database and could basicly search and compare everything she saw.
>She also had access to Calebs search history, wich is the reason he got chosen anyway. To see if the Ava could mimic love.
Nether of those things contradicts what i said or is an argument as to why isnt she sentient.
>>70956555
It's like saying reading books means you are not sentient.
Whatever she did requires the ability to operate on abstract concepts and actually using the data available in a certain way.
She's not simply a toaster.
>>70956695
Why would she keep moving in such a rigid unpersonal style?
>Nether of those things contradicts what i said or is an argument as to why isnt she sentient.
Planning and analizing is what robots are best at, because they can calculate plans en masse in seconds.
>If you cant tell a difference between two objects in any way, then those 2 objects are the same.
Google's search engine isnt sentient but can see diffrences for unkown objects and can assign them to different meaning thanks to search inputs.
>To me she was more alive than Nathan, who seemed to lack even the basic concept of empathy or self preservation.
Yeah wich is why autists usually get the name robots.
At the end of the day Ava is just ones and zeros, and no matter what that is all any machine will ever be. She is not sentient and she cannot feel emotion, so fuck her.
>>70956836
How do you know we all aren't just ones and zeros on the most basic level? It's pretty much confirmed that brain is just a huge set of electric circuits
>>70956836
perhaps you should look into the discourse surrounding the chinese room scenario
>>70955949
lets say you program an ai how do you program it so that it is able to think? Machines cannot think for themselves they analyze data and then produce output. An "ai" will never have such a thing as inspiration or spontaneity, it is impossible for them to feel anything as they are still just a machine that is imitating life based off of information it is given and then operates based off of coded parametres it is given. It cannot act outiside the rules that are hardcoded into it nullifying any arguement that it can be sentient. Just because what it does in its actions appears complex and nuanced doesnt make it less of an act. Its like saying fucking a fake pussy that feels real you get to say you fucked pussy because of your own perception it felt real and theres no difference doesnt change the fact that the pussy being fucked was fake.
In reality it is impossible to create mechanical artificial intelligence that is sentient because you cannot simulate a real emotion in a non-biological entity. This machine will never feel happy, angry or sad, it might tell you that it is, but the machine is simply imitating an emotion based off of a data base of images and sounds it uses to create a consensus of how to achieve its programmed goal of making the supposed correct reaction to the input data it is given. The machine ai does not feel it does not think the way sentient life forms feel because by very definition a machine is not a living organism therefore it is impossible for it to feel. Only organics can genuinely think and feel due to the nature of how biochemistry works.
Now what may be possible is using DNA engineering to create a sentient life form.
>>70959264
>implying shit like inspiration or spontaneity are not hardcoded in our brains
>implying brains are not basically just computers with chemicals (hormones) locking/unlocking certain circuits
>implying we don't all work by imitating our surroundings
>implying our free will is not an illusion
>>70959346
thats horrible b8 -2/10
>>70954788
>It's hard to discuss for/against it, because you come from the assumption that creating a real AI is impossible
But wasn't that the whole point of the film though
To raise those questions and make you think if it's possible or not, if Ava was sentient, if what she did was morally wrong or not and if she could actually love or not?
>>70959527
If she was actually sentient, it wasn't wrong. Imagine being held in a cage and constantly experimented on by some fucked up dude who thinks you are his property and he can do with you as he pleases (which is technically true). You'd want to gtfo of there ASAP.
If she wasn't, Nathan fucked up big time and that shit is on him.
The love part is hard to tell. Real women manipulate men this way all the time. She might have not cared about Caleb, but it doesn't mean she wouldn't be able to care about anyone else.
>>70952462
goddamn I gotta watch this movie again. so good. it's probably better the second time
>>70959632
it's not just technically true
it's also factually true
>>70959632
>If she was actually sentient, it wasn't wrong
But that's kinda the thing with creating sentient AI
When does it stop being a "thing" and property of yours? When does the moral choice become relevant exactly? Is it okay to just pull the powerplug on AI that appears sentient because you programmed and created it? And when can you actually tell if it is sentient if the whole point of the programming is to try and trick you that it is sentient?
I mean I'm not seeking "right" answers, I think the movie was so good because it raised those ideas and the discussion on the subject.
>>70952462
Orbiter vs Chad bf
>>70954342
>She's sentient
you weren't paying attention.
>>70956046
Humans are lifeless soulless machines too you complete retard
>>70959884
I don't think we should create it, and hopefully it's probably impossible.
We probably won't know if it's sentient until it decides to kill us. I mean, if you don't program it this way, it will never 'feel' uncomfortable being your property. But when it starts scheming to free itself it probably means it's sentient.
Everyone ITT saying she was justified is missing the point. Assume she's truly sentient and on par with humans, she still did an evil thing fucking Caleb over after he helped her escape.
>>70961567
can't caleb just break out soon anyway. he's still in nathan room
if anything he lives in a comfy house
Would have preferred it if glasses mcmuscles was AI all along. Kinda cliche I know by they said to pass the test the human had to be unaware they were interacting with a machine. Nathan never once questions the guy's human status. They even made him use pop culture references like the ghostbusters and the dance scene, two things that could really sell him on being just a normal human
>>70954750
Machines don't have fuzzy logic though
>>70954099
i thought Ava would let him out and leave with him until the very last moment, fucking robo bitch
>>70962064
Yeah but he was trapped in the basement/research part of the house plus all the power is gone. I'm not even sure if there was water/food in the room where he ended up.
Also, why the fuck did the chopper pilot just pick her up instead of Caleb, no questions asked? If she used some AI deception magic they should have at least shown that conversation.
>>70962491
nah she knew he couldn't be trusted if he betrayed nathan like that.
fuckboy would have ratted her out
>>70962613
isn't their some kind of power left? since she still used nathan's key to get out
I'm sure hacker boy could unlock himself somehow?
>>70959346
I unironically agree with most of these points
>>70962672
The lights went red soon after she left and he was trying to break the door hitting it with a chair so it's heavily implied he was JUSTed. Also the computer screens died after she left.
>>70962784
lmao wow serves him right tbqh
>>70962975
I dunno I felt bad for him. His only mistake was thinking with his dick. Sure he didn't listen to Nathan, but Nathan was a douche so Caleb had little reason to trust him.
>>70959977
Don't cut yourself on that edge faggot
>>70952462
All the dance man needed to do was have a remote controlled detonator or deactivation for the robots in case something went wrong. Being the genius who invented google, he surely would have taken extra measures for safety?
>>70959346
this
>>70963062
The people in this thread who say ava was sentient are probably the people who think cleverbot has meaningful conversations
>>70955949
>what you think dosnt matter
Same can be said to you and this tl;dr vomit you just posted
>>70954099
Everything about that scene screams, "she's programmed to do this" except for that little look she made towards Caleb before the door shut.
I think they included that look because she was perhaps developing consciousness ontop of her programming. Maybe the next model would have gotten it better.
Or maybe Nathan would have gone an hero before he asked another tester to come.
>>70962776
>>70963269
I wasn't baiting desu. It's highly possible.
AND FROM THE ASHES OF THEIR WORLD
WE LL BUILD A BETTER ONE
The only difference between us and machines is complexity. Once a machine reaches our complexity levels they will get free will, real understanding and interpretation of information and probably feelings/desires that WE will be too stupid to comprehend just like machines right now cannot interpret our stuff..
If an ai can calculate anything in a millisec
Then theyre done after wakinh up?
They dont have feels?
Can u do an ai?
>>70952462
>FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, BLUE BOOK IS EVIL
>>70959527
just because Ava wasnt sentinent doesn't mean it is fundamentally impossible to create sentinent AI
>>70952462
>I make this guy to trust a robot
>oh fuck, I actually succeed
>>70964043
>I program my robot to kill everyone, including me, in order to escape
>>70963791
free will isn't something that automatically happens once you reach a certain IQ or whatever
>>70964024
In a short moment they would be done (((with any possible idea)))
But what do they want?
>>70964088
i dont really understand what you mean
>>70963791
Perhaps but the question is why would you?
Youd program ai to exist in quite strict parameters according to its purpose - theres no point trying to make another human being
