I'd consider myself a realist, alright? But in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist... I think human consciousness is a tragic misstep in evolution. We became too self-aware. Nature created an aspect of nature separate from itself - we are creatures that should not exist by natural law... We are things that labor under the illusion of having a self, that accretion of sensory experience and feelings, programmed with total assurance that we are each somebody, when in fact everybody's nobody... I think the honorable thing for our species to do is to deny our programming. Stop reproducing, walk hand in hand into extinction - one last midnight, brothers and sisters opting out of a raw deal.
>>70931751
> lacking in constitution for suicide intensifies
Yes yes, well done Rust.
Was it autism?
In Rust we trust
I read that book Nic Pizzolatto swiped this shit from. Bit of a downer, IMHO.
>>70932037
Ligotti. The Conspiracy Against the Human Race. It has one of my favorite quotes ever about how misguided it is to believe in "rights," specifically a right to live.
>"For those who have given thought to this matter, the only rights we may exercise are these: to seek the survival of our individual bodies, to create more bodies like our own, and to perish from corruption or mortal trauma. This is presuming that one has been brought to term and has made it to the age of being reproductively ready, neither being a natural birthright. Stringently considered, then, our only natural birthright is a right to die. No other right has ever been allocated to anyone except as a fabrication, whether in modern times or days past.The divine right of kings may now be acknowledged as a fabrication, a falsified permit for prideful dementia and impulsive mayhem. The inalienable rights of certain people, on the other hand, seemingly remain current: somehow we believe they are not fabrications because hallowed documents declare they are real. Miserly or munificent as a given right may appear, it denotes no more than the right of way warranted by a traffic light, which does not mean you have the right to drive free of vehicular misadventures. Ask any paramedic as your dead body is taken away to the nearest hospital."
>>70931810
HOWEVER
>>70931751
>I think human consciousness is a tragic misstep in evolution. We became too self-aware. Nature created an aspect of nature separate from itself - we are creatures that should not exist by natural law... We are things that labor under the illusion of having a self, that accretion of sensory experience and feelings, programmed with total assurance that we are each somebody, when in fact everybody's nobody
I edgelorded a few times in a similar fashion when talking to friends. They always got angry and told me to shut the fuck up, even though it wasn't a heated discussion and I was just saying it as an observation.
>>70931751
>Nature created an aspect of nature separate from itself - we are creatures that should not exist by natural law...
That's impossible senpai, the laws of nature are descriptive, not prescriptive, therefore the laws of nature are simply anything that happens.
>>70932268
This
>>70932268
what he means is an aspect of nature that BELIEVES it is separate from itself, and thus creates man's paradox
>babbys first
Still some of the greatest television created to date.
>>70932146
Everything breaks down when you think about it too hard. Thats why religion exists and is very effective.
Still, the lack of any "natural" rights doesnt mean there arent rights, the only thing is means is that no one should take them for granted. Which is what i think the founding fathers would have wanted out of citizens
>>70931751
Season 1 is one of the few shows I've seen that poses and answers multiple questions per episode at a fantastic pace. Ridiculously good.
Season 2 was just depressing, and not in a satisfying way.
>>70932261
>tfw you're the downer guy in every social gathering
Uhh... I wonder if they think I'm suicidal. I never bring any of this up though, only express my opinion if they ask.
>>70932146
The author must have written that when he was 16.
>>70931751
Rust's fucking non-stop tipping started to make me laugh after about five minutes. This place has fucked with my head. I was hoping he'd show up in a fedora so much
>>70932586
What paradox?
>>70932716
>Still, the lack of any "natural" rights doesnt mean there arent rights, the only thing is means is that no one should take them for granted.
I think it kind of does. It's mostly a lexical issue in that what Ligotti is saying is that describing something as a "right" implies that it is promised (or as you aptly put it, granted). Which wouldn't be a problem is people had the ability to separate that very strict definition of the word from its real world viability when they actually use it.
But, of course, they don't. People are dead serious when they espouse that they have a "right to walk down the street and feel safe" which is wholly ridiculous. That is a privilege that is a consequence of cultural practices and beliefs that are in no way immutable. Count yourself lucky every time you pass a stranger on the sidewalk and they don't decide to punch you just because "why the hell not?" There's nothing promised about your safety, about your ability to express yourself without judgment or consequence, or any of the privileges that people have grossly confused with rights.
And to not accurately describe them as such obfuscates the truth of their tenuousness.
>>70932871
That man thinks that its apart from nature but is in fact part of it, but this is all because of nature
>>70932892
>People are dead serious when they espouse that they have a "right to walk down the street and feel safe" which is wholly ridiculous
erm, that is a right, and it is freely given and upheld by law (in some places). You could perhaps place an emphasis on "feeling" since that might imply a person didnt feel safe even though he in fact was, at least physically. However that is a matter of semantics, since in many ways the ability to be safe is very much a matter of the perception of safety that others have around you as well, and that YOU in fact are not the cause of the danger.
Rights are rights, as in the ability to exercise a right IS a given, and some rights are absolutely fundamental to a functioning society. To declare the ability to exercise a right when it is given is not ridiculous. It is in fact, quite sensible
>>70933171
>not being a property dualist.
And even from a physicalist point of view you could argue for compatibilism and still preserve free will.
So is this show worth a watch or is it just a meme
>>70933500
Both
>>70933348
Before this goes any further, I need you to explain exactly how you would define "a right."
You know, I do agree that human consciousness gave us more trouble than not, but that monologue was really wanky.
>>70931751
>Season 2 comes out
>it's creative suicide
POTTERY
O
T
T
E
R
Y
>>70933522
hmm, i suppose it would be like
>something that you are entitled to and is enforced by a system
i suppose the issue with rights arises when some people think certain rights are universal, but i think currently in the world, there are many universally acclaimed rights as dictated by a world authority such as the UN for example. the problem is the enforcement
>>70933522
it's like you're basing your understanding of everything off of the times when we were tribals
>>70933745
Ok. Then that's gonna be our fundamental disagreement, because I'm defining a right in the same way as Ligotti
>something that is guaranteed to you; that is certain
I would say that what you're describing are privileges: things that are subject to the whim, fancy, and ability of the powers that be to enforce them. It's not a right if the only real confidence you have in it is the certainty that someone is doing their best to make it seem certain when it actually isn't.
That's why they're two separate words.
>>70933500
The ending is a bit meh but it's still worth a watch.
>>70933817
You're kidding yourself if you think we're all that different from back then.
>>70931751
was he euphoric?
>>70931751
i still love the dialogue and how funny their conversations were in the car.
i don't get why people ridicule this stuff
>>70934065
well ligotti is speaking in philsophical terms, which arent real.
i mean not even death is certain if youre jesus, or you have been cured of age (such as medicine could do in the future). If you think of rights as certainties then nothing is a right at all, but that is quite a meaningless statement
>>70934151
to expand on what i said previously, obviously rights aren't some physical thing you can grasp. neither is the concept of a society in which rights are applicable. in a society you're afforded rights and if your rights are taken away the perpetrator is tried in the court of law where there is retribution. just because someone has the right not to be killed doesn't mean they can't be killed. it means that the person who killed you will be punished. you're just getting at pointless two cent philosophy that serves no real purpose other than reducing humans to ants
>>70934295
>i mean not even death is certain if youre jesus
Aaaaaaaaannd, i think I'm done with this now.
>>70932823
But he didn't, and it's not "internet edgy" like you think it is.
>>70934333
haha you can go and fuck right off faget
but if you think thats rights are certainties, then everyone alive has the right to live, because it is certain you are alive right now
>>70934307
>just because someone has the right not to be killed doesn't mean they can't be killed. it means that the person who killed you will be punished.
Come on, dude. You're too smart to be saying something that dumb.
>you have the right to not be killed, but you can be
Then it's not a right. It literally means nothing. It's literally making up a rule that doesn't exist.
The "right" which is (ostensibly) there is a right to justice. And again, even that is not promised.
>>70934065
>something that is guaranteed to you; that is certain.
I don't think that's how most people talk about rights, otherwise it would be incomprehensible to talk about violating rights.
>>70934295
>philsophical terms, which arent real.
>mfw
>>70934266
it fit Rust's character, he was pretty much an edgemaster
still funny as fuck some of the things he said
>>70934333
>says he's done with jesus
>gets trinity trips
jesus isn't done with you my friend
>>70934518
>I don't think that's how most people talk about rights, otherwise it would be incomprehensible to talk about violating rights
are you shitting me, you can violate rights that are set in law quite easily
>>70934518
>I don't think that's how most people talk about rights, otherwise it would be incomprehensible to talk about violating rights.
Agreed, any my point is that I think people toss the term around flippantly. I'm arguing that a rigorous examination of what is meant by the common use of the word is not actually a right at all.
rust was right
there is literally nothing wrong with being "edgy". now call me 16 and post fedoras
>>70934573
I was supporting the definition of rights as >something that you are entitled to and is enforced by a system
I wasn't talking about rights being set in law, but rather as laws being "certain".
>>70934596
All right, I guess I can get around with that.
>>70934495
Prove that you're alive right now.
>>70934500
>it isnt a right because it isnt an immutable law of the universe
anon pls
>>70934661
I agree with you to an extent. Most people will just think you're autistic if you spout that shit
>pic not related
>>70934763
ok.
you are a faget
>>70934770
>>70934495
>>70934307
Do tell.
What exactly do you think is the difference between a right and a privilege?
>>70934805
Still waiting...
>>70934841
a privilege is a subset of rights in general. both refer to the same thing, but it can be said a privilege is special or of higher status than other rights.
>>70934884
keep waiting faget
top kek
>>70934500
the "rule" is that murder is illegal and that most certainly does exist in our society. you could say we have a right to life that's enforced by the court of law. if we didn't have the right not to be killed then why do laws exist that punish those who do kill and also prevent killing by stripping away the would be killer's rights? i know what you're getting it. rights don't actually exist. they are not something that's tangible in the real world and like i said neither is society and civilization. humans are capable of building and shaping our own reality. so if in our reality we say people have rights then they have rights and we enforce those rights to the best of our abilities. reality is perception and things don't need a physical manifestation to be real
>>70934841
A privilege is specific, a right is general
>>70934500
Right's refer to how people should act, just because people have the capacity to murder doesn't mean it's ok to be murdered.
If you oppose to this because you're some sort of moral anti-realist, then of course the concept of rights seem like non-sense to you.
>>70934805
>>70934763 is right, you can't be absolutely certain of anything, but that's ok, pretty sure of things is enough, there is literally 0 reason to believe that you're just a brain in a vat regardless of how it's also impossible to completely prove without a shadow of a doubt that it's not true.
>>70934841
Not any of the anons being quoted, but I'd like to define rights as the bare minimum of things that need to be provided to you to consider that you have a decent life, things like access to education, not being murdered, etc.
Whereas priveleges are extra things that are usually nice but society isn't inherently requiered to provide you, like say a really nice car.
>>70934841
a privilege is given and a right is inalienable. both are determined by whatever society you're part of
>>70935018
>you can't be absolutely certain of anything
yes, but the idea of tying certainty to rights is then nullified, since you cant even be certain of your rightful claims being certain.
I mean if youre going to argue that death is certain, then life must necessarily be certain in order for you to die
>>70932824
Rust may have been a disillusioned drug burnout with a dead daughter that he killed, but he really wasn't that fedora.
>>70935200
>life being necessarily certain
Oh my god the horror.
Does Nick Pizzaman write the worst dialogue in Hollywood?
>>70935292
Of course not, he's the self-insert edgy Mary Sue that a fedora would write.
>>70935478
Well it's really easy to see what you're saying.
What I'm thinking about is what would a person probably be like if they were an alcoholic burnt out on hard drugs for like 4 years of whatever it was. I mean realistically a person like that would probably be even worse off functionally than Rust. I'm just tired of writing the character off as le hat man when no one else is coming up with anything better.
>>70935018
>Rights refer to how people should act
I'd say that's a law. Not the same thing.
>rights as the bare minimum of things that need to be provided to you to consider that you have a decent life, things like access to education, not being murdered, etc.
Whereas priveleges are extra things that are usually nice but society isn't inherently requiered to provide you
Society isn't inherently required to provide you anything at all. That we agree to do so is a nicety and one born out of living in peaceful times. It can go out the window in a second.
The basic requisites of survival (e.g. food, shelter, safety, etc.) and their availability are subjective. They're more accessible at different times and locations. How we define what constitutes basic shelter and sufficient nourishment changes. There is no homogeneous definition of what is extra vs required nor is there any strict rule that says anyone is responsible for providing it for you.
>>70932146
Damn. He used a lot of words to say "There are no real right. The only right we have is to die."
>>70935061
>a privilege is given and a right is inalienable
I would agree.
>both are determined by whatever society you're part of
However, I think you have to concede that if a right can be subject to cultural and geographic context, then it is in no way inalienable.
Read up on antinatalism if you're interested in what Rust had to say.
>>70934897
All this says is "a privilege is a type of right that is special in some way" without actually explaining (i) what a right is to begin with and (ii) what makes a privilege a special subset.
>>70935781
i am
>>70933745
>something that you are entitled to and is enforced by a system
and a privilege is different because it is considered special by people and is not available to everyone (probably due to the former).
>>70935608
They would probably be a total self-destructive wreck and not an edgy brooding supercop whose biggest flaws are that he's too brilliant and too good at his job.
>>70935850
We live in a society of unprecedented inequality. There's nothing that is available to everyone. It's all a privilege.
>>70935977
that is patently false.
the constitution is available to everyone, for starters. then there are other laws that govern all aspects of life and liberty.
>>70936097
Plz be joking. I don't even feel like taking the time to start pointing out all the ways in which people do not have equal access to resources or even how constitutional "rights" are regularly enforced differently for different people.
>>70935977
>We live in a society of unprecedented inequality
You serious? Society has always been unequal, in fact it's probably more equal than it has ever been. Plebs and patricians, peasants and nobles, workers and bosses, etc etc
>>70936252
>constitutional "rights" are regularly enforced differently for different people
youre definitely gonna have to cite examples of this, or you can just fuck off
>>70936266
No arguments here about class stratification always being a thing. I was referring specifically to the current record concentrations of wealth in the U.S. right now. That is, in fact, historic.
>>70936324
Fuck off yourself and go to google. Good luck finding anything on how perfect and equal american society is btw.
>>70936520
lel you retard kys
>>70935885
>completely antisocial
>no friends
>no life prospects, works at a bar
>will most likely die alone and sad
>no flaws
edgelords can't be gary stus
What do you think the average IQ of this board is, huh?
>>70935681
that's not even the point.
The point is that rights are fictionary. Ssperstructural. Just conventions, and as conventions they can be deconstructed.so you amerifats can stop making such a big deal about your whole gun's rights
