Why can't Superman be Superman in the movies?
>>70813115
Because movies aren't real dummy.
Snyder
>>70813115
Because you would hate it. It would be lame and dumb and old fashioned.
The Superman we have now is much cooler.
>>70813246
hi 9gag
>>70813115
You'll get your Superman, silly.
Looking back you'll realize that the wait was worth it in the end.
>>70749961
>>70750477
>Not muh Supes
>Not muh Bats
That's! The! Point!
At this point, they AREN'T supposed to be the classic and iconic versions we all know and love. Both of these characters are developing, to transition into the versions we want to see. Clark moves FORWARD to embracing being a saviour of humanity and a symbol of hope, and Bruce moves BACK to being the Batman who is no longer a cruel criminal.
These are Cavill's words:
>"The first movie we see Superman just stepping into the suit and having to go straight into a throw-down with Zod... And he won. It was successful, but it was messy, he did a lot of damage."
>"But this time we see him fighting a new kind of enemy who is psychological [...] and he mistakes here too. And these are all things which he has to learn from, and because we have all these characters, we can trail that line slowly."
>"We’re not quite yet there at the Superman from the comic books. We’re working our way.”
>“He’s the best of us in the sense that he has gone through all the trials and tribulations of slings and arrows of growth, of being hated, of not being wanted, of wanting to do everything for humanity, not being able to achieve it, and being disappointed in himself and still coming back fighting every time.”
He GETS Superman. They're not jumping straight into him being a fully developed iconic hero, they are BUILDING his character.
And if the early screening reports about SS are true and Batman is concerned with saving people and is, overall, a much better Batman, then guess what, it's because of the development that he went through in BvS to bring him back to this point in his Batman career.
he was in superman and superman returns and people complained it was gay and he didnt punch anyone
>>70813246
hi Zack
>>70813115
Superman without red underwear looks like a man with no genitals.
>>70813641
The problem is snyder's version of superman is not a natural expression of a character that has all the powers of a god, without the pesky omniscience. As it should be the easiest thing in the world for such a character to realize literally nothing but his will is even close to capable of mattering. Then the nature of that will becomes the character's defining trait.
This is made worse by the fact snyder's (cheap knockoff of nolan's) universe needs superman to not be superman, because a benevolent superman either erases all capacity for cynicism practically overnight. Whereas a malevolent superman crowns himself godking in short order.
>>70813667
He wasn't Superman in Superman Returns.
Chris Evans as Captain America is Superman.
>>70813115
THIS is Superman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUUGDRxJnFU
The only superman that matters
Because when Synder made the best Superman movie ever people shit on it because it didnt have enoigh quips.
>>70814244
The kind of Super-do-gooder you're talking about goes too far. Father McKay from "Kingdom Come" had a great couple of lines that addressed the very thing you're talking about:
"I remember how Wesley used to ambush people on the street with questions like "Do you miss the sense of human accomplishment?"
"I don't know what bothered me more - the questions or the looks from the growing number of people who understood what he meant."
>>70814541 (You)
>Because when Synder made the best Superman movie
>>70815488
>(You)
Sloppy work, no $0.10 for you
>>70813115
Because Hack Schneider doesn't read comics.
>>70815558
You're incredibly wrong.
>>70815604
Okay so he went through Watchmen panel for panel and recreated it on the surface level. Great job, Zack.
>>70814291
>>70813115
Is this the Superman you want you retarded plebs?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nu3CLQm-SI
>>70814265
Captain America kills people constantly in the films, he's not at all like Superman.
>>70815667
Clark no, they'll figure out your super-secret identity!
>>70815688
But he is a symbol of hope who fights for truth and justice.
>>70815631
And talked in-depth about the themes and plot of DKR in interviews back before even MoS was released.
>>70815718
>And talked in-depth about the themes and plot of DKR in interviews back before even MoS was released.
So he read a summary about it or maybe the TvTropes page?
>>70815688
in terms of personality he is kinda.
But movie Steve Rodgers is much more complex than Clark Kent.
>>70815770
You have to be joking. He's a completely 1 dimensional bland hero
Clark Kent/Superman is way more nuanced and complex in the Snyder films than any hero in the MCU other than Iron Man.
>>70815786
Other way around buddy, Marvel is successful because of it's complex (for a blockbuster) characters.
Steve struggles with his patriotism vs personal beliefs. A man out of time, attached fervently to his religion, trying to ignore the fact that he is the Ubermensch incarnated and that he has seen things beyond his belief.
Clark is sad people don't like him.
>>70813115
>doesn't do shit
>BOOORING
>does shit
>NUT MUH
you individuals of a more darker skin pigmentation, i swear
>>70816057
This is biased. You could expand on Clark's existential crisis and inner conflict in a much more thoughtful way rather than a brief basic short sentence.
They're both strong and deep characters.
Yes, Marvel puts a lot of effort into their heroes characterisation and development, but the same can't be said for their villains. DCEU on the other hand... Zod and Lex were great.
>>70813641
>t SS are true and Batman is concerned with saving people and is, overall, a much better Batman
Only if it takes place after BVS will it show character growth.
>>70816238
Zod yes, Lex no.
>superman in movie is bad because he's not a comforting idealogue wahhhhhhhh
>i can't accept him just being a guy who does what he can wahhhhh
>'character's you love' as if that isn't a meaningless generality
>muhh donerman is better because of all the comedic beats!
>muh if he just looks at bad people they'll stop being bad
>because instead of having a fantasy where the character actually goes into the depths is just too dark, better have a character who gives guarantees in direct proportion to the number of cliched platitudes that come out of his mouth
>>70813115
he is superman
this ephemeral superman that supposedly is not on screen is total bullshit
>>70819282
>>70819337
>wanting shitty versions of Superman
Garth Ennis hates the shit out of superheroes and he could write a better Superman in his sleep
>>70813115
cos Snyder thinks its to cheesy.
>>70819450
eh, nothing wrong with the guy in either movies even if under explored in bvs. at face value, the vibe i get is of a guy who just happened to be born with incredible power, despite the alien shit everything reads to me to be somewhat of an everyman guy who quietly does what he thinks is right despite the unquiet nature of his abilities
nothing to justify vitriol, for sure
>>70819692
In BvS he literally looks like he's about to cry whenever he saves someone, like he can't be bothered. That entire saving people scene was the most depressing thing ever. I don't know why Snyder keeps making him Jesus, when he really shouldn't.
Hell, in todays audience, it would have been a lot more innovative to make Superman cheerful and hopeful, but complex in that he puts the worlds burdens on his shoulder and treats everything he can't do as a fault, than to just make him a depressing allegory to Jesus.
>>70819692
That's really the point of BvS, he's trying to live a normal life with Lois, keep a steady job, and just do some good when he sees trouble like a regular good Samaritan, not be a saint.
Humanity see him however as "superman" (remember he doesn't call himself that) who can do everything and thus has a duty to do everything, even if it means not getting to live his own life. That's what Martha's speech to him was about, that he doesn't HAVE to be that person, he has a choice just like regular people choose not to be police/firemen/soldiers an it doesn't make them bad people.
At the end he becomes "superman" by ultimately sacrificing his own life.
It's great and I find it strange how so many people miss this and just complain "why isn't superman being superman?", when the entire movie is about Clark willingly becoming that person (unlike MoS where he's forced).
>>70819772
That comic looks like pure self wank
>>70819772
>In BvS he literally looks like he's about to cry whenever he saves someone
not true
the saving montage was an interesting way of summarizing the way he functions in the world. having those acts happen in montage while people talk about him into the end of the scene where he's watching the senator talk about him was succinct and efficient.
*i* wasn't depressed, although i don't see anything to be depressed about, if anything i see comedy in it. here is a super-man, the super-man, and no one knows what to make of it
cheerful and hopeful are meaningless bro, really. so general to not mean anything concrete
i found the bvs story more interesting anyway. again i do think there wasn't enough done with it, especially with the barely touched angle of him wanting to effect change through his job at the paper, acting through superman out the powerless he felt at not being able to accomplish anything through the paper
>puts the worlds burdens on his shoulder and treats everything he can't do as a fault
wow. you complain about bvs superman and this is your solution, a person with severe insecurity issues.
bvs is superman contemplating the sisyphean nature of his goal and whether it's meaningless or not.
not to disparage you, i'm fairly certain you don't even understand what is being said through the references to the jesus story as well as the general trope of death and resurrection. i take it all to be valid, and wish there was more background things worked in to further paint death and resurrection as a primal archetype
>>70819772
it's not making him Jesus (except in the way a christian man might want to be like Jesus and follow his example), it's other people seeing him as both a impossible saviour he can't live up to and a guy that owes them something.
But I agree, some cheerfulness would be nice, at least some "Happy to help out boys, you astronaut folks are helping us foward". Even Routh had that "still the safest way to travel" bit which was perfect boyscout moment from a nice young man.
>>70813641
>That's! The! Point!
Its a shit point anon
>>70820021
>Humanity see him however as "superman" (remember he doesn't call himself that) who can do everything and thus has a duty to do
>Humanity see him however as "superman" (remember he doesn't call himself that) who can do everything and thus has a duty to do
>Humanity see him however as "superman" (remember he doesn't call himself that) who can do everything and thus has a duty to do everything, even if it means not getting to live his own life.
>That's what Martha's speech to him was about, that he doesn't HAVE to be that person, he has a choice just like regular people choose not to be police/firemen/soldiers an it doesn't make them bad people.
>At the end he becomes "superman" by ultimately sacrificing his own life.
glad i'm not the only one who appreciates the irony
i like how idea itself of the superman that comes from above and saves is what is what dies, and instead we have an egalitarian ideal of hope along with the idea of humanity and the earth being superman
i've been reading about modern alternate readings of christianity and have still been bugging out over how this reading fits the movie
i wonder what more commentaries they could have made with different groups of people interacting with superman with clark reacting to it and talking to people
we'd probably get a lot of stuff like life of brian without overt jokes being made, there's still a possibility of there being something similar to the scene in the holy mountain where the guy is in agony when he witnesses the commercialization of jesus
NOT MUHHHHHHHHHH
Fuck off autist
>>70815667
Fuckin A it is.
It has way more heart in it than anything Snyder has ever touched.
>>70820021
i'd also like to add something about your comment on normal people not being bad because they don't choose to go into public service:
knowing this while seeing the reactions people have is sickening, really, these people sicken me. i never say anything about it but just seeing that these people feel so entitled to the life of someone else not only proves various points of the movie and the portrayal of lex luthor right, but it casts a whole new light on actual irl christianity and even snyder himself
we don't condemn the genius who doesn't live his potential. we don't condemn people for not devoting their lives to others. even soldiers don't have the guarantee of righteousness because of the clusterfuck that is government and money at the highest level.
a movie depicts a guy who's unsure of himself in the face of a messy world and i'm supposed to think he's an asshole?
anyway
of course of course of course i'm not saying he's some collection of random adjectives with positive connotations. i just see some ideas underneath the glamour of the intellectual property that have utility
>>70820434
tbf even though I disliked BvS I liked it questioned the ossified assumption Superman should help and that he owes people anything (specially the parasite media little talking heads filled with meaningless words and no action, the government and people using wheelchair guy's legit grievances as a weapon etc) but ultimately reaches its own conclusion and its own notions of belonging and duty.
It felt like it was made by a ex Ayn Rand fan who became a christian. It's weird as fuck (and I think a bad movie), but at least the movie is its own thing and far more interesting than other capeshit.
People saying Superman is an asshole in this are weird - i mean, they don't think people who aren't firefighters are assholes, they're not soldiers themselves. It's a bizarre thing.
>>70815745
>Going this far
Its like you memers take this seriously
>>70813257
>>70813812
This board is a cancerous teenage petri dish.
>>70813641
Typical DCCuck. Do you get tired of blowing Zack 24/7?
>>70813115
>Superm-Ai-N
A Superboy falls in love with a reporter girl.
Unable to confess, Clark Kent is gifted by a Mxyzptlk with Lois Lane's phone number. Never minding the strange area code, he immediately calls her, and is overjoyed to find out that she has a crush on him as well.
But, the next day, when he recounts the previous day's confessions to the girl, she only looks at him with a perplexed expression. After some investigation, he finds out that the girl he called is not the same girl he fell in love with. In fact, she doesn't exist in this universe at all. She is the girl's alternate universe counterpart, who has fallen in love with the MC's own AU self, who too is blissfully unaware of her crush.
Hijinks ensue as he tears through the fabric of time and space in order to get to the reporter girl from another dimension. Equipped with their darkest, most private secrets the weapons they need to conquer the heart of their other selves, DRAMA ensues as they begin to fall in love with each other instead and question the NATURE of TRANSDIMENSIONAL LOVE.
>>70822817
>FINDS
Wow a non meme BVS kino thread.
>>70813641
>yes goyim, we'll fix everything in the sequels, make sure you reserve your tickets for DC Comics' Justice League: Part One in IMAX and Real 3D opening everywhere on November 17, 2017
>>70815770
Not really
Does Steven Rogers act like a dweeb so people won't know he's really captain America ?
Does captain America spend time pulling pranks on his friends to teach them a lesson
Does captain America get depressed when he is replaced with another captain America
>he's a symbol of hope
Meaningless garbage that never applied to superman any more than any other superhero
>>70822817
FINDS
>>70822817Threadly reminder that you should stop posting that because it's a thing.https://www.fictionpress.com/s/3206139/1/
>>70822817
The funny thing is that Silver-Age Superboy is so bullshit that this is perfectly plausible in canon.
>>70814882
well that's a cheap handwave.
as superman, not being all that smart, would have no capacity to stop human achievement/accomplishment by achieving/accomplishing more than humanity. Nor would removing all inane obstacles to human achievement somehow devalue human achievement.
With or without superman, humanity is going to get over all the shit we're currently obsessed with eventually. Or we'll die out.
>>70822817
>George Costanza has a crush on Ellaine Benis
>He receives confession from girl on his cellphone
>It turns out it's from girl from an alternate dimension
>Alternate-girl (A-Girl) loves Alternate boy (A-boy)
>A-girl wants to learn about A-boy from boy since she assumes the two are the same
>Boy wants to learn about girl from A-girl due to the same reason
>Boy and A-girl can only communicate through short messages (SMS)
>A tale of love through cellphones
>Implying magical cellphones are real
>Implying this pasta is funny
>Posting Keit-Ai in 2011 + 5
>ISHYGDDT
>>70820021
>>70820234
>>70820234
I'm with you guys. In fact, I think that theme begins all the way back at the bus rescue from MoS. If you notice, right before the bus goes into the water, the bus driver opens the door. You even get to see that it's already open when Clark pushes the bus up out of the river?
Why is that important? Because even though it's understandable that kids in this situation would panic, they're sort of symbolic of all humanity. By panicking and not acting to save themselves, it puts Clark in a position where he has to resort to "superheroic" measures to accomplish what they should have been able to accomplish on their own. They could have made their way to the front of the bus. They could have followed Clark out the emergency exit, but instead, they sat there beating ineffectually against the windows and the roof while the water rose around them.
>>70813641
What saddens me is that we'll see this progression and cynical assholes will treat it like it's "backpedaling," when it's been a steady development of the character with some pretty profound messages about the kind of people we should all be thrown in for good measure.
Most people don't want that, though. They want the hero fantasy, just pure escapism. There's nothing wrong with enjoying that from time to time, but there's also nothing wrong with it being an uphill struggle to becoming that iconic, "infallible" figure.
>>70822817
>>70823839
Holy fuck superbly is a dweeb
>>70823996
The Superman that does nothing but zip around righting every wrong and fixing every problem is pretty much leading society into the ultimate "nanny state" with Superman as the ultimate "nanny,"
>>70824379
So snyder supes is 36, and in order to be in the state hes in, he would have to have zero introspective capacity.
So when supes finally realizes he's, ya know, fucking superman, its going to be because batman says "martha" at him or something equally contrived.
or snyder will just contrive reasons for his non-involvement every time superman starts threatening his "dark" universe.
>>70824521
And eventually humanity will grow to a point where superman isn't needed anymore.
as "nanny state" can only ever be a transitional period.
>>70824528
How do you be Superman? You've obviously spent a lot of introspection thinking about it.
>>70824605
see: >>70814244
>>70824683
So where should Superman start fixing things?
>>70824711
Everywhere.
>>70824874
No, let's be specific here, because you have to start somewhere. Should he grab all the weapons from humanity first and throw them into the sun?
>>70824932
>you have to be specific
>superman
>>70824874
not him, but that'd be boring.
Just endless "why isn't he in Africa helping crops, ending war 938493, genocide 3546, why isn't fixing poverty, ending the middle east conflict, stopping that kid from falling"?
At least Snyder, even in a mediocre movie, did better than that. He shouldnt be some slave morality circlejerk where he's nanny to other nannies
>>70813246
But I liked Superman Returns
>>70825022
Worse than boring. It's impossible. The ultimate irony of a hero like Superman is that for all his power he not only can't fix everything, he shouldn't.
Continuing with the weapons question from >>70824932. where do you draw that line? WMDs? Weapons of war?Long-range weaponry? How long range is too long range? Rifles? Handguns?
What about hand-to-hand weapons? What about tools like axes and hammers that are perfectly serviceable as deadly weapons?
>>70825056
I did too, but to be honest, my favorite moments in it involved him having to make choices similar to what's happening in BvS.
Remember that scene where he's zipping out across the ocean to stop Lex and sees the fissure heading back to Metropolis and has to choose between saving Lois and his son, or stopping the disaster? That's good Superman stuff right there.
>>70813115
Beacause altrusism is dead
>>70825379
Long live heroism.
>>70825120
You're asking a stupid question in a stupid manner, so I wasn't taking you seriously.
Since the snyderverse is just an ape of the nolanverse, lets look at nolan's batman. One guy with some toys basically ends crime in gotham. He doesn't need to throw away all the guns or anything silly like you're proposing. He simply applies oppressive counters to criminal activity in the proper times and places and it becomes a sort of "representative sample" that causes even small time criminals to be sure hes going to jump out of a dumpster and break their pelvis. Problems arise when criminals escalate in response.
Superman doesn't need to be selective in his actions. He doesn't need the toys or rest. Humans can't escalate in response to superman. So superman doesn't have to do anything big or specific, he just has to "do." It doesn't matter what. Big things, small things, everything. By doing he becomes a steady reminder that certain shit ain't going to fly anymore. The media does the rest by making superman's actions seem common by way of exposure.
They fucked up by b lining straight for a justice league movie. They could have done superman lives inbetween and had that badass recovery suit they were going to use in the burton version, with the see through rejuvenation effects
>>70813115
Hopefully in Justice League, Synder just literally makes it like Watchmen.
But have him be happy loved Dr Manhattan. it would be amazing if they recreate the opening of Watchmen with Justice League. Showing them each and together saving the world. Obviously ain't going to happen.
>>70825467
But humanity can and did escalate to him. A couple of motivated billionaires manage to take him down just acting on their own steam by and large.
>>70825554
>a couple billionaires
>humanity
see the disconnect here?
>>70825625
Yeah, and it's totally on your side of the argument.
If a couple of guys acting on their own with nothing but their own resources can pull it off, what happens when entire countries mobilize against a "foreign do-gooder" deciding what they should and shouldn't do?
>>70825696
The point is anyone with the resources to challenge superman is an easy target for superman.
Not even mentioning the level of contrivance necessary to get bruce wayne and lex luthor on the same side for any period of time.
>>70825774
Is Russia an easy target for Superman?
>>70825812
>anyone
>russia
now you're just being silly.
