Martin knows how to write complex political intrigue, while all Tolkien knows is making generic and boring ultimate good vs ultimate evil story.
Martin is quite clearly superior as an author compared to Tolkien.
>>70539891
You got hurt real bad in that /lit/ thread, huh
Also, his books are crazy thick. They like a billion pages each. He most likely has a greater neural capacity than the malnourished Tolkien did.
>>70539891
shitty bait
>>70539891
>ultimate good vs ultimate evil story
Someone hasn't read the Silmarillion.
people who don't know shit about fantasy genre will always defend Tolkien
>>70539891
and?
>>70539968
I'd say it's the other way around.
Despite all casuals claiming plenty of series as Tolkien-clones, nothing is quite similar to it.
>>70539968
Tolkien is the only halfway worthwhile author in the steaming pile of manchild shit that is the fantasy genre. The fact that serious fantasy fans don't like him confirms his superiority
Tolkien just stole his stories and characters from Norse myths. What a hack.
The fatass has ingrown earlobes, Tolkien had normal ears. His genes are simply better.
>>70539891
Tolkien probably wasn't going for a political intrigue filled story, he seemed to be a big fan of all the old norse sagas and it seems like to me at least that his writings were based around those kind of stories.
Comfy adventures and unrealistic battles between superhuman foes.
You can say they're both fantasy but I think they're different sub-genres, Lord of the rings has a plot more similar to Star wars than Game of thrones. Epic adventures against one main bad guy rather than fighting against other main characters where you could be the bad guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp_luluo0
This is basically what this thread will become. Might as well get the cancer out of the way now
>>70539891
GRRM just hodgepodged a bunch of shit from prior fantasy novels into one thing
>>70539891
>GRRM tries to deconstruct the fantasy cliches with a down to earth (war of the roses fanfic) low magic (does not want to think rules of magic) "grey morals" (everyone is a prick)
>Ends his books with the mother of all mary sues fighting the evil ice zombies with her dragons cause she is the chosen one.
I LMAO at your life.
>>70539891
Tolkien's work already stands the test of time. GRRM unfinished scribblings are already superseded by the shitty TV show.
Take it to /lit/ you low IQ good reads plebeian
>>70539891
Martin's innovation was creating Westeros/Essos, a knockoff of Robert E Howard's Hyboria only not as good.
>>70539908
This.
>>70539891
Tolkien invented a genre for fun.
Martin cant even finish his saga.
>>70540509
This list is bait, right?
>>70540509
We don't like genre fiction in /lit/.
You can have your dumb nerd fights in /tv/ - memes and capeshit. Or maybe /tg/
>>70540303
I don't understand why people over the age of 13 think these are funny
>>70539891
Martin has the advantage of coming after with Tolkiens work already existing and a lot of inspired work after it.
It's like comparing a modern day doctor to one from the 1930s. The talent and intellect may be the same, but the one who came after has an advantage.
>>70539891
>t was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men and he did not like it much. He was glad he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies and threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would no rather have stayed there in peace
>Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water.
Pick one.
Take your shit authors back to /r/books
>>70540631
you fucking nerds i swear
>>70540645
The Hitler vs Darth Vader was "ok", then they thought "omg let's press all that juice from that lemon". This one was particularly shitty.
>>70540509
>Atlas Shrugged
>God-tier
>>70540509
is this some /lit/ meme or are those guys really this autistic?
>>70540645
Some of them are alright. Deadpool vs. Boba Fett was great but had nothing to do with history of any kind so whatever. They just came out with Thomas Jefferson vs. Fredrick Douglass and while pretty educational and accurate it kinda sucked.
>>70540509
>Atlas Shrugged
Tolkiens a cucked christfag.
>tfw Turin's story is ASOIAF-edge-tier, or perhaps even more
Never been able to finish GoT or LoTR.Morrowind lore is the shit though.
>>70539891
THE MORE SHE DRANK
THE MORE SHE SHAT
>>70539891
Nah, you see, Martin has his own spirit and themes to his books that aren't remotely related to Tolkien.
Rather than go in-depth on my own opinions on the matter, try giving this a watch even though this thread is SHITTY FUCKING BAIT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek2O6bVAIQQ
>>70540303
>You even stole my R.R
kek
>>70541151
MrBtongue is a cuck.
ASOIAF started off okay, but after the 3rd book it's complete garbage. All his "politics" feel more like a soap opera really, doubly so in the show
occasionally you come across a passage in GoT that reminds you that he can actually write
unfortunately its buried beneath pages of (sometimes literal) shit
>>70540460
This Tbh
It started out as political intrigue but it's Tolkien-tier shit now
>>70539891
>>70540509
>reading
>>70540509
>no Matthew Lewis
>no John Cleland
shit list. opinion discarded.
>>70540619
/lit/ literally read the same books over and over again. It's the worst fucking board and I was immensely disappointed since I'm reading a lot. I thought it was a cool place.
At least they made me read one bookLolita
>>70541151
>death of the author
>show is wrong because it deviates from my personal interpretation
>>70540619
Depends on if your book is at the bottom of the list doesn't it?
>>70540084
George R. R. Martin just stole his stories and characters from the War of the Roses. What a hack.
>>70541151
>liking A Feast For Crows
Good video, but that book was 9th book Robert Jordan Wheel of Time level awful. Fuck that.
>>70541960
>/lit/ literally read the same books over and over again
They don't even read books. They collect them to display for bookshelf threads as if they were trophies.
>>70542194
What's wrong with collecting?
>>70539891
>all Tolkien knows
>judging a writer's knowledge based on one mythos he wrote
Retard.
>>70541361
Not an argument.
>>70539891
they're the same shit.
Peake shits all over both of them. gormenghast is kino.
>>70539891
Martin was noteworthy not great. He didn't invent a genre like Tolkien did.
>>70540509
This bait always enrages me
Not because it's bait but because it's so fucking weak but it still gets posted everywhere
>Dante's Divine Comedy is nowhere to be seen on that list
It is therefor invalid, bait or otherwise
>>70542939
As decorations.
>>70539891
this is bait, but Martin doesn't deserve half the shit he gets on /tv/
>>70539891
Martin basically had an interesting idea which was to deconstruct traditional fantasy archetypes. He had a good start but has failed to stick the landing. I don't really think he's comparable to tolkien who wasn't so much as interested in storytelling as world building.
>>70544225
Tokien didn't invent a genre.
>>70540679
Who's the old man in that pic?
>>70544560
He invented fantasy.
Hodor=Hold door
it's like pottery
>>70544729
Doesn't matter. That's why he's sad. He'll be forgotten quicker than literary critics like Edmund Wilson.
Tolkien's world is idealistic, whilst Martin's is more realistic.
>>70545053
Not an argument
If i write a real story and then throw in a dragon it doesnt make it better than Tolkien because its more realistic
>>70545053
>Martin's is more realistic
Martin's is also unrealistic but in the opposite direction.
>>70544936
If Hodor were Black, he'd be Hodeedo
>>70545209
Ayohodadough
>>70542039
Pretty much this.
Tolkiens source material was mythology whilst Martins is basically just various periods and events of history.
>>70540666
Wolfe is a massive Tolkien fan and got a personal response to a fan letter he sent at the beginning of his career.
>>70542039
>>70545305
Actually Martin also stole some of the mood and fantasy setting bits from Tad Williams Memory Sorrow and Thorn series, which is in so many ways the middle work between Tolkien and Martin.
>>70545345
Also because of this I have a secret hope that Wolfe has a "Book of the Old Sun" he's done that will be published upon his death as an homage to the Silmarillion.
>>70541587
You don't know what Tolkien is, do you?
>>70544183
>Peake
BOY THIS BIG CASTLE SURE IS DEPRESSING!
Rothfuss destroys both of them.
>>70540076
What about Lloyd Alexander?
I like how Tolkien was going to write a political intrigue sequel to LotR about Aragorn's son dealing with inter house war and some conspiracies and shit but he figured nobody would give a fuck so he abandoned it after about two pages.
>>70545680
>Rothfuss
>look him up
>just some D&D fag
>>70545746
>D&D
No.
He's literally writing the greatest fantasy series ever right now and he'll actually finish it until that fat fuck Martin
>>70545710
Never heard of that. I think you are confusing it with the short-story he started about a guy (unrelated to Aragorn) trying to recruit one of his friends into a secret Morgoth cult lead by some orcs.
>people think Martin invented "realistic"/low fantasy
>>70539891
I havent read Martins books but i hear his writing style and use of words isnt that good or professional?
>>70545801
>He's literally
If this is the kind of fan he attacks, I won't bother with him.
>>70545803
13 pages, not 2. My bad.
Definitely Aragorn's son.
I actually have NO idea what you could be referring to.
>2016
>reading
>>70540335
GRMM copied Dune. Face dancers, House Stark being House Atreides
>>70545848
I'm just memeing, he's complete shit.
You should read him.
>>70539891
(you)
>>70545883
>nigger
>KEEPIN IT REAL
>>70545980
>REAL DUMB
>>70545746
>just some D&D fag
That's wrong though. Kingkiller is actual art, unlike ASoIaF
Only people who aren't familiar with pre-modern literature shit on Tolkein
I enjoy both JRRT and GRRM because I'm aware that they're attempting completely different things
The Lord of the Rings shouldn't even be called a novel - because it's non-psychological and relies heavily on traditions established by epics and romances that pre-date the concept of the novel by several centuries
>>70545409
Point is all writers take their influence from somewhere. The point is they take that material and create something original with it.
It's silly to compare Tolkien and Martin really considering Tolkien was writing in a completely different time, and culture has become so much darker and violent since then.
It's not really a surprise that GoT only really took off in the post financial crisis world where culture has become a lot more pessimistic.
Both are great in their own way, and both have moved fantasy forward. So can't fault either.
>>70546138
This. ASOIAF is what our atheistic post-modern culture produces and expects. People in 2060 will have threads on cantonese virtual gallery boards saying how it was boring/had no meaning or some shit like that.
>>70546138
> culture has become so much darker and violent since then.
Tolkien lived through two world wars, and fought in the first one.
His life was even darker than Martin's.
>>70546138
ASoIaF has been a fantasy hit since it premiered. It's been one of the two titans on the racks along with WoT since both began. It only took off because some jackasses figured out how to do it on a TV budget.
I mean yeah, you're right about different time and different things.
I just like tracing influences and the evolution of things, and there is a clear through line from Tolkien, to Williams, to Martin. (Martin has cited Williams work as an inspiration in attempting a fantasy work like ASoIaF in the first place.) Just because you can trace the influences doesn't mean all that much on its own though. Influences go on and on, backwards from author to author through all of time. It's just trivia.
>>70539891
low quality bait thread.jpg
>>70546138
>It's silly to compare Tolkien and Martin really considering Tolkien was writing in a completely different time, and culture has become so much darker and violent since then.
It is silly to compare them, but not for that reason
Plenty of 'darkness' is to be found in authors of Tolkien's time and earlier. Look at WW1 poetry, Gothic novels, Shakespeare's tragedies, etc. Hell, stuff from millennia ago like Greek tragedy is dark and bleak as shit. I think a better word would be 'explicitness', especially where sex is concerned. As long as you remember that prudishness about sex was specificlly a late Victorian and early 20th century phenomenon
>>70546282
Hell, he did some of the earliest (If not the earliest?) work on his Legendarium in a field hospital after being injured. In many ways, all of his work is a reaction to coping with war trauma. It's fascinating how the romances between Beren and Luthien, and Aragorn and Arwen are modeled after he and his wife, and yet to a degree so is Frodo's sadness and loss of joy in the world. It's a mans life dissected through fantasy.
Tolkien wanted to make a modern Beowulf for England. All of LOTR is steeped into old north/north-western european folklore with Beowulf as the centerpiece. Calling it generic is like calling every Hero's Journey story after Gilgamesh "generic" because they're all the mono-myth.
>>70540509
>le hate the popular stuff meme
Yeah OK
>>70546282
Culture and society aren't the same thing. Yeah there were two world wars.
Was rampant nudity and sexual references in culture acceptable?
Was showing all the blood and guts and limb hacking?
Were sex scenes?
No.
Culture and society are not the same thing.
It was still a Christian society and culture. Modesty was expected. And the violence that we know today in culture only really started in the 70's.
>>70539908
>/lit/
>knowing about good fantasy
>>70539891
>Martin knows how to copy paste complex political intrigue,
Also, Martin cannot even read old Medieval chronicles or other source material.
>>70541765
based fredposter
>Tolkien
>sift through fucktons of worldbuilding
>payoff is some faggy shit about love and true friendship
>Martin
>sift through shittons of worldbuilding
>payoff is badass characters dying in gruesome ways, rape, young girls paired up with old men and fuckin rad homosexual dick suckin
It's 2016, you boring Tolkien fanboys.
>>70540509
>Dumas
>Rand
>God tier
>>70545680
>created the ultimate Gary Stu
No thanks.
>>70547004
I once heard that you have to be religious to write fantasy (or fiction, can't remember the original quote exactly).
A lot of fantasy authors seem to be Christian. I find it interesting that when this religion is lost, the fantasy becomes much darker, much more cynical, like Dark Materials and GoT. You can really see the bitterness against religion in both.
>>70539966
>has read Silmarillion
Do you hate yourself?
>>70540076
>The fact that serious fantasy fans don't like him confirms his superiority
what?
>>70546227
In 2060 we wont be a atheistic post-modern culture?
>>70546969
>Also, Martin cannot even read old Medieval chronicles or other source material.
why not and how does that mean shit?
>>70547133
>why not
Because he knew only one language.
>how does that mean shit?
Well it's pretty bad when writer don't have any idea about what he is writing.
>>70547083
Might be something to that. Not sure if it's a bad thing, though (entertainment wise, anyway).
Christfags like Tolkien and Tolstoy always know exactly how to hit me square in the feels until I'm having an existential crisis. But they can't really scratch that, for lack of a better term, pornographic itch like amoralfags can.
>>70547083
Isn't GRRM an atheist or agnostic?
>>70547004
>virtue and heroism are boring
This world is not worth saving.
>>70547415
>But they can't really scratch that, for lack of a better term, pornographic itch like amoralfags can.
Degenerate, please.
>>70547320
>Well it's pretty bad when writer don't have any idea about what he is writing.
>Tolkien lived in middle earth and the elves spoke Medieval english
is not meant to be history. also martin is a history buff lists one of his main inspirations as the war of roses.
>>70547503
Yes, but he was raised Catholic.
You can be religiously unreligious though. By religious I don't mean necessarily in the organized sense.
>>70547536
>tfw wasting away, reading le shitting-brown-water man's books when you should be letting some Russian Christfag make you wanna move to the beautiful, untamed Caucuses for a spiritual rebirth and old country cuties
feels bad
>>70547062
>whole story is about what a fuckup he is
>gary stu
>>70547611
>>Tolkien lived in middle earth and the elves spoke Medieval english
Well, Tolkien knew a lot of languages and was professional linguist, so yeah, he knew his source material much better than Martin, that's his universe is unique synthesis of abrahamic and ancient european Mythology and folklore.
>is not meant to be history.
So it's just pulp-fiction for edgy teenager?
>also martin is a history buff lists one of his main inspirations as the war of roses.
So?
>>70539891
>Martin knows how to write complex political intrigue
hihihi
>>70546709
Have you read Ulysses? Heard of Penny Dreadfuls? Watched Coriolanus or King Lear? Rampant violence and sex was a part of 20th century culture, completely and totally. If you looked at the kind of reaction to GoT that makes it into the media, it's the same shit it's ever been. Al this prelapsarian bullshit is fucking nonsense. The only difference is the existence of television.
>>70547740
That's what I thought. I think it just has something do with how fascinating relegion is. I ain't religious myself and am an atheist but most relegions seem to have some pretty interesting lore tied to it.
>>70547901
>political intrigue
>hurt good people get screwed over by bad people in da real world
>hurr Littlefinger plot armour means that everything that happens is all according to keikaku lol, so deep
Littlefinger is one of the most ridiculous characters in a ludicrous series. Same with Varys.
>>70547975
Yeah I know what you mean. I have a fascination with catholicism even though I was raised atheist.
Really rich history.
OP is a fag.
>>70539891
Tolkien could probably see his penis, though.
>On the evening of his 21st birthday, Tolkien wrote to Edith, who was living with family friend C.H. Jessop at Cheltenham. He declared that he had never ceased to love her and asked her to marry him. Edith replied that she had already accepted the proposal of George Field, the brother of one of her closest schoolfriends. Edith said, however, that she had agreed to marry Field only because she felt "on the shelf" and had begun to doubt that Tolkien still cared for her. She explained that, because of Tolkien's letter, everything had changed.
>On 8 January 1913, Tolkien travelled by train to Cheltenham and was met on the platform by Edith. The two took a walk into the countryside, sat under a railway viaduct, and talked. By the end of the day, Edith had agreed to accept Tolkien's proposal. She wrote to Field and returned her engagement ring.
Complex political drama by GRRM:
>The Lannisters are the richest people in the world because they have gold mines
>>70548201
>mfw Tolkien not only fought in the first World War, but cucked another man
Truly a visionary.
The Lord of the Rings is a Catholic work, so it deals with themes that are not popular anymore in a post-religious age, such as spiritual grace and theodicy.
Having said that, I disagree that his worldbuilding is less "dark" than modern fantasy. It shouldn't be forgotten that during centuries most of Middle-Earth was under the rule of Dark Lords, and men, dwarves and elves were being enslaved. That's as dark and violent as you can get.
It should be noted that on a political sense, Tolkien is also less idealist than some other author who get a pass on this regard. George R. R. Martin is a progressive, Ursula Le Guin is a communist, Alan Moore is an anarchist. They all shoehorn their deluded ideologies in their works in some way or another as the kind of political reform that is the answer to all problems.
Meanwhile Tolkien is extremely skeptical of any kind political reform as the salvation of mankind. I know he hated allegories but it's hard to read his letters and now see the Rings of Power as metaphors of political power. We can also get this sense of political criticism of revolutionary ideologies from Sauron's internal history.
>at the beginning of the Second Age [Sauron] was still beautiful to look at, or could still assume a beautiful visible shape – and was not indeed wholly evil, not unless all 'reformers' who want to hurry up with 'reconstruction' and 'reorganization' are wholly evil, even before pride and the lust to exert their will eat them up.
Now, from what we know of 20th century history. Of the Soviet Union and dekulakization, of Maoist China and the Cultural Revolution, who is being more realist and cynical. Ursula Le Guin and her tale of true communism solving all world's problems, or Tolkien and his tale of someone who desired to take control over the world so he could make it better being blinded by the fight for power until he loses sight of what he was trying to achieve and just seeks power for it's own sake?
>>70542072
>tfw reading Winter's Heart right now
>scant few Based Perrin and Mat chapters
>chock full of Mary Sue Rand chapters, 5 chapters of Nynaeve fucking Lan, and snippet chapters of some who-the-fuck-cares Aes Sedai
Jesus Christ, what a slog.
>>70540662
sweet jesus
>>70539891
Stop trying to sound smart. Just say you like watching rapes.
>>70548670
>Tolkien is also less idealist than some other author who get a pass on this regard. George R. R. Martin is a progressive, Ursula Le Guin is a communist, Alan Moore is an anarchist. They all shoehorn their deluded ideologies in their works in some way or another as the kind of political reform that is the answer to all problems.
This is an excellent point. I find "realism" is usually just an excuse to make things disproportionately gritty or cynical. Tolkien had a greater range of characters than Martiin.
D&D have spoiled that GRRM's "deep message" is just a bog standard anti-nuclear anti-war one with the ancient (literally) "creators destroyed by the weapon they unleashed" trope.
>>70547975
>>70548068
The Reformation really was the beginning of the end of the west.
>>70549620
>"creators destroyed by the weapon they unleashed"
So it's just "Scrapped Princess" all over again?
>>70539891
tolkien is better since female characters are insufferable, as shown in GoT
>>70549687
>Look it up
>Some fucking chinese cartoon shit
Are you really so fucking uncultured? And Jesus, it's not even an old one!
>>70549755
It's just an example, you uppity fucking faggot. Go suck some nigger dicks and calm down.
>>70546794
>good
>fantasy
pick one, redditor
Complex tax and treasury scenarios by GRRM:
>Bobby, Cersei and Tywin borrowed lots of money from the Iron Bank and they never come to collect it
>it's a "pissbaby prefers rape and people getting castrated over serious literature" thread
Honestly I'm surprised /tv/ is literate enough to read Martin, even though it is essentially a television script in book format.
>>70539891
Finish your series you fat tub of shit. then we'll discuss how you're pathetic attempt of medievalist political thriller falls painfully short in comparison to Tolkien's literary masterpiece and how you're gimmicky dragon jumping fem-fest show doesn't even register next to the greatest Kino to ever grace a movie theater. GRRM I hope you finish your series soon so I can finish reading it and say that I've completely finished reading your available works then proceed to contact you and inform you that youre a hack and need a diet
>>70550010
Whoah Preston take it easy. He really hurt your feelings didn't he?
>>70540662
Gets me every time
>>70550067
Doing mY best tbhfam
>>70549687
Unless I'm remembering wrong the aliens took over the weapons and destroyed humanity
>>70540662
The sadded part about this is diarrhea is Dany's harshest consequence of her actions since Drogo and her unborn son died.
Meanwhile on Westeros outcome of wars change because Edmure had a little initiative.
>>70548320
Who's the guy on the left in that pic?
>>70550346
A retarded GRRM fanboy who got a harsh taste of reality
>>70550538
>got a harsh taste of reality
Details?
>>70539891
>Calling the guy who ended up defining the genre generic.
Yeah ok nigga.
>>70539891
Tolkien is for children though.
That's like comparing War and Peace to Dr. Seuss.
>>70550753
The Hobbit was for children, LOTR and the Similarion weren't.
>>70550753
>Comparing Martin to War and Peace
>Comparing Tolkien to Dr. Seuss
Get out, faggot.
>>70539891
>156 replies and counting
Well done
>>70546095
Underrated comment.
>>70545884
This. It's a big rip off Dune, which I think lost credibility due to the horrid film and the author dying.
>>70539891
You don't get to criticise a man for his cliches if he's the reason they became cliches in the first place.
>That faggoty turquoise shit
>That literal gaybar hat
RR sure does look like a fat faggot next to Tolkien
>>70540509
>1984
>high tier
>even on that list
kek
>>70549807
Kill yourself, /lit/. You are still the worthless nerd we all bullied.
>>70540619
yes
Martin is a fat hippie fuck.
Tolkien was a genius.
Martin's works is terrible.
Tolkein's work is incredible.
/of fucking story.
>>70547518
>virtue and heroism are boring
It is boring, you fucking faggot.
>>70554119
>Tolkien was a genius.
He was a faggot that wrote faggy stories for fags. Go suck a cock, faggot.
>>70554180
>He was a faggot that wrote faggy stories for fags. Go suck a cock, faggot.
This is the literacy level of your average gurm fan, lads.
>>70539891
AHAHAHAHA! Are you fucking serious?
>>70554211
>lads
Goddamn faggot.
>>70539891
Wannabe vs a real man
>>70548201
So pure
OP did a 10/10 job of triggering the neckbeards with this thread.
>>70554180
Yeah, how dare Tolkien not spend hundreds of pages discussing Gimli's tax policy and Elrond's education reform. He only wrote 3 books about LOTR mythos, smfh, why not 5 more that would take them 30 years?
>>70549820
There's a subplot in the books about the Iron Bank sending agents to help Stannis overthrow Cersei on the promise that he'll repay their debt.
>>70540859
>cucked
Using a word incorrectly does not make you sound smarter, anon.
>>70539891
Lmao jk rowling did both better. Well the filmmakers did. Its brazlian orwellian nature is fucking starring you in the face
>>70554548
Pic related
>>70548026
now that you mention it, little finger and varys could have been killed so easily in the first or second season and nothing of value would have been lost.
>>70544929
What is the Epic of Gilgamesh
>>70547004
Ladies and gentlemen, the average asoiaf fan
>>70540509
>rand above joyce
>rand above james motherfucking joyce
5/10 made me mad
>>70555076
an epictolkien didn't invent fantasy though
>>70544929
ok then
can you read? just curious
>>70545818
maybe read it then and form an opinion for yourself, eh?
It's a complete ripoff of Wheel of Time. Astroturfers are in force trying to muddy the waters, but Game of Thrones is a RIPOFF OF WHEEL OF TIME.
>>70555394
how?
in what way?
come on bud one example
>>70555489
wilders are aiel
>>70555521
ok, discounting how all aiel have the same basic code and wildlings aren't even the same race,
they've basically been wiped out book and show, the aiel are a massive relevant force throughout.
Stop trolling u suck
>>70555244
It's still fantasy
>>70555656
What you are trying to argue is that he invented "high fantasy", which he did, or at the very least defined it.
Basically, high fantasy hearkens back to the epic mythologies of old and emulates the stories, characters and themes of those tales. Think Greek myths and Norse/Germanic myths specifically.
Tolkien wanted to create a world that was a modern Beowulf effectively, complete with rich and deeply fleshed-out cultures, languages and histories.
The Silmarillion and LotR are exercises in linguistic and theological rhetoric, wrapped up in a thematic that looks back on the heroes and stories of old for inspiration and homage.
Tolkien was a genius and to compare the two is stupid.
>>70555656
The epic of gilgamesh doesn't even fit the loosest definitions of fantasy.
It was an epic written about someone who probably existed in the real world, and there is no indication that we weren't supposed to believe that it really happened.
>>70555817
finally someone
well said
>>70549820
Except they did, read the books you fucking sperg. Its the entire reason Tycho Nahoris even sponsored Stannis in the first place
>>70555836
dude a midsummer night's dream is fantasy gilgamesh is fantasy so is beowulf, when you create your own world it becomes 'high fantasy' simplest way to say it
