Why did director Zack Snyder turn Batman into a cold-blooded serial killer? Is it because he thought it would be "cool" and "edgy" to turn upside down a character who's famous for his no kill rule? Does Zack realize that Batman doesn't kill because he knows it wouldn't make him any better than the criminals he pursues? I guess Zack doesn't care. Man, talk about a director who hates his audience. No wonder this film flopped critically and commercially.
wew
they was good criminals, they did nuthin
Batman generally goes in three stages:
1. New to crime-stopping, against killing
2. Robin dies, goes full nutcase and kills tons of people as he's lost hope
3. Gains back his sense of purpose, doesn't kill.
So it's not out of character, just one terribly handled and explained. The general audience doesn't really know older batman, so it was a garbage decision.
>>70377635
Imagine being Ben on that set and having to be all like “damn Zack Snyder, you a fuckin auteur, all avant garde with your unique style and hideous CGI slow-mo you've been relying on since 2003.
I would totally call you a modern Kubrick, both my character and the real me.” when all he really wants to do is direct another best picture winner. Like seriously imagine having to be Ben and not only act on that set while Zack Snyder flaunts his unimaginative cinematography in front of you, the favorable lighting barely concealing his poor choreography and weak set design, and just sit there, take after take, hour after hour, while he perfected that movie. Not only having to tolerate his dudebro fucking visage but his haughty attitude as everyone on set tells him he's THE FATHER OF CAPEKINO and DAMN, ZACK SNYDER DIRECTS LIKE *THAT?!* because they’re not the ones who have to sit there and watch his amateurish fucking mind come up with amounts of bad ideas you didn’t even know existed before that day. You’ve been working on nothing but a healthy diet of 10/10's for your ENTIRE CAREER coming straight out of the boonies of Gigli. You’ve never even seen anything this fucking disgusting before, and now you swear you can taste the sweat that’s breaking out on his unkempt neckbeard as he leans in to poorly art direct you, smugly assured that you are enjoying the opportunity to get paid to be a part of his “visionary (for that is what he calls himself)” kinography, the kino he worked so hard for with Goyer and Nolan in the previous months.
And then he calls for another take, and you know you could kill every single person in this room before the studio security could put you down, but you sit there and endure, because you’re fucking Bin Muhammad Al-Fleqqi.
You’re not going to lose your 72 virgins over this. Just bear it.
Hide your face and bear it.
>>70377635
This is like implying 20 year old nam soldier will be the same as 50 year old ex nam soldier.
No one stays the same
>>70378217
This has never happened once in any incarnation of Batman though?
>>70378217
Nice headcanon moron
>>70378362
No which makes it original.
Zack likes to make things original with realistic violence.
Hell he should go write some Game of Thrones episodes.
>>70377635
Watch the movie and find out!
>>70377635
Any time a character wont kill 'because that will make me just as bad' is just selfish and concerned about their own appearance rather than the innocent victims
Bruce moves BACK to being the Batman who is no longer a cruel criminal. And if the early screening reports about SS are true and Batman is concerned with saving people and is, overall, a much better Batman, then guess what, it's because of the development that he went through in BvS to bring him back to this point in his life.
>>70378467
>"Batman generally goes in three stages"
Hey look, i didn't even say i was against it (although i am) but i'm tired of people trying to qualify it as if it were something Batman would ever actually do.
It's Zach's flick, he can do whatever the fuck he wants. I hope he splits the Joker's head with a pipe like Rorschach did at this point cause to me Zach Snyder's more of a comedic director than anything else and i'd at least relish a few good laughs
is bvs worth pirating and watching high? i liked spiderman 2
>killing a person who has and will kill many is the same thing as killing many people
Saturday morning cartoons ruined morality for anyone born in the last three decades. If you think killing one guy who has killed 100 people is the same as killing 100 people, you don't value human life. You're saying one life = 100. The life of a terrible person = 100 lives of innocent people. The reason why heroes don't kill is that they're meant to appeal to kids and they can't be killing people or concerned mothers would freak out. It has nothing to do with the actual morality or ethics of justice. In the real world we have protections against cruel and unusual punishment. But if the crime is great enough,capital punishment is used.
>>70378524
>HURRR HE DOESNT KILL ANYMORE IT WAS JUST A PHASE OMG GET OVER IT
You all sound like 12 year olds. The film is utter shit. Just accept it.
>>70378523
He isn't part of the justice system and murdering people as you see fit regardless of the context (barring exceptions in the case of self-defense; of which i'm pretty sure millions of dollars worth of custom equipment qualifies as premeditation) makes you a criminal that murders people at their own discretion. Besides, considering Batman's best friend is literally the comissioner of police i'd say it's pretty safe to say he has faith in the justice system.
>>70378235
I smiled
they'll probably explain why in the ultimate edition.
i mean they explained why superman doesn't just tell bruce about his mom and avoid fighting from the beginning
>>70378746
No matter how much you try to spin it, audiences simply still do not want to watch a superhero film where the protagonist is outright killing people; especially when that protagonist is a character as beloved as Batman.
>>70378756
I don't understand what you're getting at. People change. This Batman has changed. But through the events of the movie he's developed back into the Batman he would have been in his prime, the one we are most familiar with.
>>70378827
He fucking killed in the Nolan trilogy too, you asshat.
>>70378774
Batman is beats up people on the street, drives on the road with an unregistered illegal vehicle and flies around in an aircraft without a flight plan or anything, he is a criminal he just wants to view himself above them because he's selfish, if he actually cared about fighting crime more than anything he'd kill all those scumbags regardless
>>70378524
Ah, the ol' "casual murder of unconvicted criminals as the equivalent to binging on ice cream or potato chips in a time of weakness" justification
>>70378851
It was merely coincidental in Nolan's films. In BvS he is outright murdering people.
>>70378870
There's a point worth making in what you're saying there which is a well explored dilemma with many characters; but a man must have his convictions and draw the line somewhere and that's just a line he isn't willing to cross. Batman wants to destroy the cycle of violence and death, not perpetuate it.
>>70377635
It's because Batman killed some guys in the 1930's and therefore this is what defines him.
>>70378827
People love the Marvel movies and those heroes kill people all the time.
>>70378986
>Leaving Ra's on the train
>Tackling Dent off the edge of a building
>Coincidental
Dunno about that
Who does he outright murder in BvS? The goons in their cars as he pursuits the Kryptonite? We don't know if they died.
The guy he stabs in the warehouse? We don't know if he died either. He slings Batarangs into people in the comics all the time.
The KGBeast? Same situation as pic related.
>>70378986
It's his character completely over the line. That's kind of the point. That's the real philosophical divide between the two principals in BvS. Super killed once, on his first day on the job and pretty clearly decided that it was a line he was only willing to cross when left with literally no other choice.
Bruce, on the other hand, is utterly convinced of the righteousness of his crusade and is allowing himself to believe that in his self-appointed role as humanity's protector, the ends justify any and all means. In effect, he's become like Zod:
"Any action that I take, no matter how vicious or how cruel, is for the greater good of my people."
It's only when he encounters Clark, a man being the kind of hero he himself used to be, that he begins to wake up and realize the monster he's well on the way to letting himself become.
>>70377635
I have been care less about Zack broke Batman's NO kill rule. I am still fucked up by thinking why they had to spend 2/3 of BvS's running time to implying upcoming Justice League. Things were announced before this particular feature. It should've been done the other way around cuz everybody must had known it's coming at the time, a film was released.
>>70379232
brah you got apophenia bro you're full of shit get out of here
>>70377635
BvS batman seemed to be an amalgamation of dark knight returns and batman beyond bruce
a guy focused on the mission but in this case openly admitting his worries that it was all for naught
affleck himself constantly stated that the character was based on a beaten up boxer in the twelfth round on the verge of moral bankruptcy
the movie conveyed all of this with clarity
his is the story of a guy who lost hope and finds it again
>>70381027
No one wants to see Batman on the edge of "moral bankruptcy" One of the reasons Batman is so popular is because he stands by his convictions no matter what; he's unbreakable.
>>70381216
batman's popular because he's batman bro, as morrison said somewhere he's the ultimate cool guy badass. that's it. this 'unbreakable' can mean many different things in many different contexts. this isn't some affront to some fucking platonic ideal
>>70381216
So what you're saying is that everyone just wants escapism and shallow characters. This is a movie about Bruce's finding redemption in Clark sticking to his convictions. It's "The Dark Knight Returns" inverted.
>buying a ticket to the Zack Attack for any reason besides cool aesthetics
Suckere Punch and Gay Butthole Owls whatever are his best films.
>>70377635
The idea is that he went psycho after Robin was killed by Joker, who then escaped. Alfred alludes to it with his "New methods?" line, but it could use more establishing dialogue, like "I can't believe you've chosen to break your one rule" or something.
>>70381438
Well as far as we know, he hadn't officially broken it till the car chase. I still think we're going to find out that he killed the original Joker and walked away with no thought of returning until Superman showed up, thinking that if it could happen to him, it could happen to anybody.
>>70377635
this shitposting if it's not bait proves why Disney prefers to water down everything.
http://www.thegekdom.com/home/2016/4/30/a-thesis-on-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice
On the flip side, Zack Snyder does the exact same thing with Batman and his decision to start this Batman’s character arc from the end of his career like Frank Miller’s Batman was a stroke of genius. As this version of Batman is the most merciless, darkest and cynical Batman we have ever seen, equal to Frank Miller’s Batman in every way.
A jaded warrior who has become weary due to the kind of experiences he has been through, a being who has lost all hopes on mankind and as a result is fighting crime using questionable methods as he feels fighting criminals is like dealing with weeds (you pull one out and others will take its place) We see him branding criminals and in Gotham City, the law states that the brand leads to a death sentence. Thus, in an indirect way he’s an executioner. (Batman actually killed five people in this movie as well, not counting those who died due to their own mistakes and during Knightmare scene)
At one point, Bruce Wayne says“20 years in Gotham Alfred, we’ve seen what promises are worth.How many good are left? How many stayed that way?”In a way,Bruce is actually talking about himself, alluding to his questionable methods and agenda. We have to realize that he’s on the verge moral bankruptcy and all of a sudden his twenty years of crime fighting becomes obsolete as there’s Superman now, a being who can destroy the entire human race if he ever loses control or in a worst case scenario, he might even break his promises just like how Batman broke his promises, a literal time bomb and that makes Bruce Wayne uncomfortable. This turns a good man (Batman) cruel, to such an extent that he is convinced that killing Superman will be his ultimate legacy, an act which will save humanity and Earth from a potential global threat.
>>70381858
As you realized, this movie is a destructive art piece. The one which deconstructs 76 years of Superman and Batman mythology (along with all the preconceived notions that comes along with it) and breaks these characters only to build them from the scratch again, to turn them into the kind of Superman and Batman you love, the one which you refer to as “My Superman and My Batman”. WhenJustice League 1comes around you will finally witness the canonical Superman and Batman that you love, because these two characters have been through a crucible which changes them into the heroes you love.
This is the necessary birthing pain the mother (DCEU) has to go through to give birth to its greatest sons and I am very happy that Zack Snyder’s vision is a long term game and that everything has rock solid thematic/narrative reasoning and a big payoff attached to it but sadly it’s just that some moviegoers and critics are used to instant gratification and cannot look beyond their preconceived notions.
Either way, we will witness the canonical Superman and Batman from next year but there has to be a narrative which establishes why these characters behave the way they do and what makes them the heroes that we all love and look up to. That’s a risky thing for a filmmaker to do but Zack Snyder boldly says “I am up for the challenge.”
>>70381438
not everything needs to be said with dialogue pleb, cinema is a visual medium
