What the actual legit shit?
I have nothing wrong with the story or the way it is told BUT why did they entirely leave out one movie? What I mean by this is that this feels like Episode 8.
There should have been an Episode inbetween Episode 6 to better explain how Kylo turned to the darkside, show Luke Skywalker training him and show Kylo slaughtering all his Jedi younglings - similar to Anakin in Episode 3 and then show Luke go into exile - similar to Yoda in Episode 3.
POETRY
BUT instead JJ decides to begin the story when Luke has vanished... suddenly an entire new army of Empire is back even though they were all destroyed at end of Episode 6. It makes no fucking sense...
Why did JJ think this was a good idea?
He done fucked it up.
>>70149174
The actors were too old, and they wanted to concoct a scenario where the republic were the good guy "underdogs", no matter how silly or contrived the plot was.
We really won't know whether the plot makes sense until episode 8 and we find out what the hell Luke Skywalker was doing.
They didn't want the train wreck of having young actors again.
Plus they needed to mimic IV's story, which starts out midway through a plot as well.
>>70149232
>JJ making us wait 2 years to hear Luke say 1 line of dialogue when we have been waiting 30 years to see him again on screen
>>70149271
>They didn't want the train wreck of having young actors again.
Umm Rey and Finn?
>>70149271
>Plus they needed to mimic IV's story,
Stop with this fucking mimmicking for god sake
JUST begin it with Kylo being sent to Luke's training school by Han and Leia.
>oh because no one would like it because it wouldn't feel like star wars
oh fuck off
>>70149326
I mean a bunch of angsty fucking teenagers as students to Luke.
Finn, Rey, and Kylo are adults.
>>70149174
>There should have been an Episode inbetween Episode 6 to better explain how Kylo turned to the darkside, show Luke Skywalker training him and show Kylo slaughtering all his Jedi younglings - similar to Anakin in Episode 3 and then show Luke go into exile - similar to Yoda in Episode 3.
>>70149232
According to the Bloodline novel, Ben's turn was at least less then six years before TFA
>>70149394
>I mean a bunch of angsty fucking teenagers as students to Luke.
Then make the same age as Finn and Rey. And who the hell told you this news anyway?
I just wanted to see the prequel to force and now we never will
FUCKING JJ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve88BGz0nPc
>>70149365
I'm not saying it was a good choice, I'm just saying they clearly decided that for the movie to be non-offensive to fans and to make it less of a risk, they mirrored IV's story.
It's harder to make any major mistakes when you just remake a movie with a near identical plot and a huge budget.
>>70149174
Why was every single new character so young looking
I understand kylo ren looking young, his entire character is based around rebelling agaisnt daddy but why is the fucking general in charge of the super weapon base of the evil guys looks like a giant fuckboi barely out of his teen years
and this was done on purpose because the actor who plays him is actually older and looks his age in other movies
I have no doubt we'll be explained all of this in Episode VII or IX. And if you saw Episode IV for the first time, you'd be like "Who the fuck is this Vader guy? What the fuck are the 'Clone Wars'? What the fuck is a Jedi? Who the fuck is the emperor? etc, etc
What a waste of potential this film was. As a sequel to Return of the Jedi and continuation of the original trilogy, it's a complete disappointment. Abrams and friends reset the universe. On its own, it's a competent action film.
>>70149475
That bothered me as well.
I doubt every single senior officer in the entire Empire managed to get killed and they could clearly use people with experience.
>>70149394
Rey is barely an adult. She's the youngest of them all.
I dont get the hate on /tv/.
I thought TFA was much better than the Prequels.
>>70149365
Thank god you worthless faggots have no say in movie production.
You know nothing.
>>70149837
Is that much of an accomplishment?
>>70149837
>not posting the crap falcon CGI from force awakens
All the moving shots were CGI
>>70149837
i'd rather watch the prequels tbqh, atleast the story is entertaining and not a rehash of something that was told in a completely superior fashion prior
>>70151887
EXACTLY THIS
>>70151887
Same here family, especially III
>>70151997
Not gonna lie, usually the Star Wars grids don't look THAT nice, but this one is quite beautiful
Star wars isnt a fucking documentary you dumb shits. The star wars universe was a better place before we knew how the Empire was created or that Darth vader was an angsty teen that hated sand.
>>70151997
If only George Lucas had allowed people to critique his writing. And if only Lucas had done a better job at directing his actors/actresses. The Prequels could have been truly exceptional works of art. At least we got something good (Plinkett Reviews) out the debacle.
>>70151997
>cinematography is about pretty CGI still shots
DUDE WALK N TALK
DUDE SHOT REVERSE SHOT
>>70149292
It was Kasdan's idea.
>>70149174
>There should have been an Episode inbetween Episode 6 to better explain how Kylo turned to the darkside, show Luke Skywalker training him and show Kylo slaughtering all his Jedi younglings - similar to Anakin in Episode 3 and then show Luke go into exile - similar to Yoda in Episode 3.
>Instead of rehashing Episode IV they should have rehashed Episode III
>>70149475
>>70149677
The First Order was meant to look inexperienced and new, especially Hux.
>>70149837
It's pure contrarianism.
People are mad that a movie with a female lead and a black actor was well received.
>>70152645
>not typing "when hollywood done be seeing"
fucking uncle tom housenigger
>>70151997
>>70152865
When will this meme die?
>>70149174
>why did they entirely leave out one movie?
because none of those things happened in A New Hope
>>70152986
Saying TFA is a copy of ANH is a superficial complaint for idiots who cant enagage with a movie beyond the surface level
>>70153112
Give a counterargument then faggot. Just saying something doesn't make you right.
At least the people saying TFA is a copy of ANH have reasons and arguments to back up their claim.
>>70153112
THIS
>>70153158
You see a droid carrying a plot device and shout REHASH!!!! But refuse to acknowledge anything original in the movie and youre too stupid to realize the movie is about legacy and how the previous generation influences the new
>>70149735
How old is she supposed to be anyway? She looks like a teen.
>>70153293
Rey is 19, Finn is 23, Kylo is 29 and Poe is 32
>>70149837
3 > 7
>>70153278
>refuse to acknowledge anything original in the movie
there is nothing original about it.
>>70149174
Because JJ is all about that nostalgia.
I mean, look at the shit he did with Star Trek. It's no different.
He took Episode 4 as a template and kept it as close as he could without blatantly plagiarizing it.
>>70153326
Are those the actors' ages also? It seems like I heard Finn and Rey are 23 or so in real life.
>>70153278
There are way more reasons why it was a rehash.
You have a self-trained hero who is powerful in the force (but doesn't know it) starting off in tatooine with the lil droid.
Empire finds them, tries to attack, they escape in the millennium falcon. Additionally, they leave with another character who's handy with a blaster, but doesn't know the force.
They then run into an old-timer (Han/Obi Wan) that fought in the last war. They train/guide them to a trainer before finally dying to the main bad guy in the end.
Not to mention they have to destroy a fucking deathstar in the end of the movie.......did I miss something?
>>70153359
Really? Where was there a defected stormtrooper in ANH? Where was the villain obsessed with emulating his grandfather to make up for his own insecurities? Where was the character who lived in a graveyard of the previous war which caused her to idolize the previous generation?
Youre just proving youre an idiot who cant engage with a movie beyond the most superficial aspects as I claimed
>>70153112
Time for this meme to die too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngg2uBK2j8s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5unxo_f-Agw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKvsc6a03Es
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BX18Icf6fQ
>>70153417
Youre bitching about basic structural shit. The phantom menace is the same movie as ANH by that rationale. Oh wait it had a naboo starfighter instead of an x wing and a donut ship instead of a death star as the "destroy the space station" setpiece so the movie is SO original because im an idiot who cant discern character or theme, i just see visuals!!!
>>70153428
Just because a couple backstories are different doesn't mean the plot of the actual movie wasn't the same. JJ Abrams is obviously not going to do a shot-by-shot remake of it...but you can't claim that it is actually that different than ANH.
Are the people who act like TFA is a rip off of A New Hope not familiar with ESB and RotJ? There's a lot of elements of ESB and RotJ in TFA as well, I might even say at least hte second half has more in common with RotJ than ANH.
For example:
A search for Luke, that's reminiscent of the Empire looking for Luke in ESB.
Falcon being flown by someone other than Han Solo happened in RotJ.
Dameron flying through the hole in the capacitor and blowing it to shit was way more like the flight through the second Death Star than the ANH flight minus the small trench run.
Han Solo leading a landing mission to disable a shield to enable others to attack a planet destroying weapon is straight out of RotJ.
A dramatic scene on a catwalk between a father and son is from ESB (not exactly a catwalk in ESB though).
The fight between Kylo and Rey was a lot more like the Vader/Luke fight of ESB and RotJ.
The mind rape stuff that Kylo does is a less powerful version of what Vader does to Luke when he reads his mind and sees that Luke has a sister.
There's loads of other things that build up this argument. The fact that everyone calls it a clone of ANH makes me think they haven't actually thought about it and are just memeing what others said.
>Disney hires a bunch of artists to come up with concepts
>Really interesting intense stuff
>JJ comes in
>Immediately turns into MUH NAZIS and OT circle jerk
>All the cool shit gets thrown out
That's basically what happened.
Also there's this.
>>70153417
are you implying that the prequels aren't basically visual ripoffs of the OT as well?
>>70153486
True, and that's one of the reasons that I think episode 1 was the weakest of the prequels.
But even so, I'd say episode 1 still had a lot more originality in it than TFA. I mean TFA even rehashed stormtroopers as the main enemy grunts! At least they had droids in episode 1.
>>70153535
My ultimate point being that TFA was serving as a soft reboot to get everyone up to speed (original fans, kids who grew up with the prequels and then kids who grew up without any Star Wars movies coming out) and back into the universe. If 8 isn't a new direction then it will make 7 retroactively worse. But, if it's unique I think 7 will have done it's job to get us on solid footing again.
>>70153461
>meme
Learn English.
>>70153600
No, I'm obviously not. I said nothing about the prequels. Do you know what "implying" even means? You inferred that...I implied nothing dipshit.
>>70153535
It's a remake of A New Hope with some elements of Empire and Jedi thrown in. I watched the film on opening day and noticed most of these things. The Force Awakens is the entire Original Trilogy condensed into a single film. However, it mainly draws from A New Hope.
>>70153600
True, but unlike TFA it RHYMED.
https://youtu.be/k7ZW1gtCljs
>>70149174
>There should have been an Episode inbetween Episode 6 to better explain how Kylo turned to the darkside, show Luke Skywalker training him and show Kylo slaughtering all his Jedi younglings - similar to Anakin in Episode 3 and then show Luke go into exile - similar to Yoda in Episode 3.
Why do we need that? We know Kylo Ren's motivations already. VII conveyed the changes in the setting poorly, but not poorly enough to justify another movie between VI and VII.
>>70153590
is that a lightsaber on BlackPoe?
>>70153634
It's a lot more than just some elements of ESB and RotJ. I'd say the first half is very similar to ANH but the second half starts to mirror RotJ more.
>>70153428
>Where was there a defected stormtrooper in ANH?
you mean the cowardly worrywart who can't fight? C3PO.
>Kylo Ren
Darth Vader has the same powers, same ranking, same costume, same death star, same everything as Kylo. They're carbon copies.
>character who lived in a graveyard of the previous war
Do you mean Rey? That's Luke, the poor common-man with no family, who lives in the desert, and wants to join the resistance.
You're retarded. These "new" characters from The Force Awakens are the equivalent of Sonic the Hedgehog "original character do not steal"s. The one thing you can point out that makes them different doesn't eliminate the twelve things that make them a carbon copy of an old character.
>>70153667
TFA uses familiar elements to tell a story about legacy and passing the torch to a new generation
George just copied shit and threw it in where it didnt belong
>C3PO shoved in for no reason
>R2D2 back for no reason
>dude Jango Fett is also a bounty hunter lmao
>Clones are a ripoff of storm troopers
>dude Baby Boba Fett lmao
>Republic ships are a ripoff of Imperial Star destroyers
>Naboo is earth
>Death Star plans in Attack of the Clones
>All Jedi wear Tatooine farmer robes
>Corisant is a ripoff of the city from Blade Runner
>dude Genonisis is Tatooine with rocks lmao
>dude Kamino is just Cloud City with water instead of clouds lmao
>original
Don't act like the prequels aren't just guilty of rehashing shit.
At this point, the Star Wars formula is already established.
>>70153629
but you're saying it's ripping off ANH when it's just using the standard formula that the other movies are using.
>>70153707
Half those things were there because they were prequels though.
>Clones are a ripoff of storm troopers
They *are* storm troopers.......
> Naboo is earth
Wut? Earth wasn't in the OT if you didn't notice...
>Republic ships are ripoff of Imperial Star destroyers
Because the republic became the empire......
etc. etc.
hurr durr what is in medeas res? Many epic stories take place in the middle of events... Including the first Star Wars. It's common as fuck, I'm sorry you don't understand that OP.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_medias_res
>>70153707
WHERE THE FUCK IS THE BOTTOM OF HIS BODY
>>70149628
No, because the original was the original. We know who Vader is: a Jedi that betrayed everyone in favor of the Empire and presumably the killer of Luke's father. The Clone Wars weren't relevant either, they were just mentioned as a way to establish that Anakin and Obi-Wan were close. And Obi-Wan outright explain what a Jedi is, and we find out more by seeing him and Vader in action. What we didn't know was all irrelevant to the story. But VII is a sequel. And it's a sequel that frequently references characters and events from previous films, which means that it also has the burden of providing clarity and fluidity between it and what came before.
>>70153748
I do think that TFA ripped off stuff than the prequels though.
Additionally, a lot of stuff in the prequels were there because they were prequels. They were an origin story for the OT. For TFA its a clean slate, they have no obligation to try to stick to any plot because nothing has been written at this point (JJ Abrams even said he wasn't considering the books as cannon).
So he has no excuse for copying the formula.
>>70153697
C3PO is not nearly comparable to Finn. Also, Finn did want to run away from the First Order but ultimately conquered his fear because of his attachment to Rey, the first person who ever looked at him as a human being instead of one more set of boots on the ground. C3PO doesn't have anywhere near that level of characterization.
Kylo Ren is attempting to be Darth Vader but lacks his incredibly strong connection to the force. Kylo is torn between the light and what he considers to be true power. His mind has been infiltrated and broken by Snoke. Kylo doesn't have close to the level of control that Vader did.
I do agree that Rey is basically Luke but with a different background. I will say that Rey had no interest in joining the resistance, she begrudgingly fell into it. She wanted to go back to Jakku after getting BB-8 to the resistance. It was only after she was kidnapped and learned about her connection to the force that she came to fully accept her destiny.
>>70153807
IT'S JUST A MOVIE YOU LITERALLY HAVE AUTISM
>>70153697
>Darth Vader has the same powers, same ranking, same costume, same death star, same everything as Kylo. They're carbon copies.
Are you kidding? In TFA, Kylo Ren is mocked, where Vader is feared. Kylo Ren is filled with apprehension and instability, where Vader is a rock. Kylo Ren is trying to be Darth Vader, but has none of confidence or ability to inspire fear.
Why does no one on /tv/ actually pay attention to anything.
my mom agrees with you OP
>>70153850
>Implying you can use the term "clean slate" when making a movie set in a fictional universe that has already established itself.
I kinda enjoy when people shit post about TFA. It's one of the few times I get to really talk about Star Wars. Only one of my friends is a really big fan and it's nice to get to talk about it with some other people occasionally.
>>70152645
who is he quoting?
>>70153694
Ignoring the entire end of A New Hope being copied and pasted, yeah, the third act borrows a significant amount from RoTJ:
- Han Solo leading a team to deactivate the Death Star's shield generator.
- Confrontation between father and son. Ends with one falling into the depths below.
- Rey and Kylo Ren's duel is extremely reminiscent of Luke and Darth Vader's last battle.
Then Rey finding Luke at the end will likely lead to a repeat of Luke finding/learning from Yoda in ESB.
>>70153404
jesus christ i need to do something with my life
>>70152865
This is the real truth. It's fucking obvious that TFA was a better movie than anything Lucas has made in decades. Not a cinematic masterpiece by any means but a decent movie and not an actual piece of shit, like the prequels.
>>70153941
The universe was established...but at this point all that you truly have to stick to are the mechanics of the force and a couple characters.
I don't see why we need to see stormtroopers again...or another deathstar...or another lone undiscovered hero on tatooine.
Why couldn't the movie have started with some of luke's students? Or perhaps a whole different storyline entirely (just set in the same universe)?
>>70149174
This movie was just a set up for the next one. Which means that the setting ended up being confusing as fuck because "lol we'll tell you in the next one ;)"
This is the same reason why so many people (and rightly so) call Rey a Mary Sue. If you don't give insight into how she can accomplish shit that took other characters YEARS to do, then you're beyond shitty as a writer.
>>70153975
The end of TFA is a reluctant student walking up to meet her new destiny.
The destruction of Star Killer as you said is much more similar to the events of RotJ so if any movies ending was stolen and placed into the super weapon destruction scene of TFA it was Return.
Honestly, the final scene of TFA is more akin to the final scene of ESB than anything else. A cut watching a few people stand around.
Part of the problem is that the destruction of Death Star 2.0 is quite similar to the destruction of Death Star 1.0. The rest of the events add up to make it more of a rip off of Return than ANH though. The beginning of TFA is definitely ANH however.
>>70153888
>Kylo Ren is mocked, where Vader is feared.
Vader is mocked too. Don't you remember that one scene where the officer calls him a bitch for believing in magic? And are you saying those storm troopers who walked away from Kylo's tantrum didn't do so out of fear?
By the way, you're completely missing the point that Kylo serves the exact same purpose in the film that Vader does. He's the main bad guy, taking orders from the emperor, running a giant laser planet, ordering around storm troopers, torturing prisoners, blowing up entire planets, running around with a red lightsaber, force choking his peons, looking for a droid with intel, who kills the wise old man, and is defeated but not killed by the main character at the very end. They're exactly the same.
>>70154077
>Why couldn't the movie have started with some of luke's students? Or perhaps a whole different storyline entirely (just set in the same universe)?
Because Jew Jew Abrams is a shitty writer.
>>70154118
The reason she quickly grasped the force after introduction to it is (IMO) because touching Anakin's lightsaber was basically a holocron for her that started unlocking her abilities. Then when Kylo started entering her mind and she fought back and pulled something out of Kylo I believe she pulled some of his training as well.
I disagree generally about the LOL sequel stuff. There's plenty of questions left unanswered at the end of ANH and ESB.
>>70153850
But when making a new trilogy that re-establishes a franchise that many have considered dead since 1983, you have to back to the basics and reintroduce a new generation of fans (while also paying the proper respects to the old movies).
>>70154171
Kasdan co-wrote it.
>>70154132
His belief in the force was questioned by one person and Vader then promptly started choking him to death. He only stopped because Tarkin requested it.
Those storm troopers walked away like "Oh god, he's fucking up another computer room again". Not "Oh god, if he sees us he's gonna kill us!".
He's the main bad guy yes, but his motivation, personality and problems are all quite different. He's striving to be like Vader but he's obviously not.
>>70154132
>you're completely missing the point that Kylo serves the exact same purpose in the film that Vader does.
Youre completely missing the point in that kylo ren is a loser trying and failing to be vader to make up for his own insecurities
Are you mad theres a villain in star wars? Seriously?
>>70149837
As if that's a hard thing to do.
>I don't get the hate, I thought Phantom Menace was better than the Holiday Special
>>70154184
>There's plenty of questions left unanswered at the end of ANH and ESB.
Yes, but none of them affect the main plot of the movie, or the setting. They were more of an afterthought when thinking about the movie. Stuff like Luke's father, wasn't even left out in the open because Anakin was said to be dead.
Whereas in TFA you have questions that affect the plot and the audience's reactions to certain scenes.
No one gave a fuck when the 'good' planets were destroyed. Nobody even knew what the New Republic was, just that they were in charge and sort of disconnected from the Resistance.
Also, Rey being able to use Force abilities without training really threw me off. It's been established in every movie that you need training to use them. It's fine if they pull the lazy 'lost memories' shit, but nothing changes the fact that she was a Mary Sue in TFA.
>>70154249
Sure, it might make sense financially...doesn't mean its a good movie though.
And I'm not saying TFA was bad...it just wasn't good. It was pretty mediocre, not really worth watching again. If it wasn't for the name of Star Wars, it probably would be a pretty forgettable movie.
>>70154265
Even worse. How can two writers just take an old script and copy it?
>>70154337
What? Han's fate being left in limbo wasnt a huge fucking cliffhanger? Critics bitched about that endlessly in 1980. TFA's plot was about finding Luke. That was resolved. Youre just mad they didnt autisticly fill in the blanks about minor shit that didnt matter.
>No one gave a fuck when the 'good' planets were destroyed. Nobody even knew what the New Republic was, just that they were in charge and sort of disconnected from the Resistance.
No one gave a fuck about alderaan either.
>>70154171
JJ is the best thing in hollywood at the moment. he transcends and melds genres in single features and consistently delivers widely palatable and original movies.
name one bad idea of his
>>70154368
Because it worked.
>>70154270
>>70154287
>kylo ren is a loser trying and failing
Vader was a loser too. He begs Padme for sex and is insecure about his feelings.
>but his motivation, personality and problems are all quite different.
his powers, costume, actions, role, even his voice, and the things he does in the films all exactly the same as Vader. He's the same character and you are grasping at straws to make him seem different.
>>70154476
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace-1999
>>70154132
Kylo occupies the same narrative space as Vader but he is an entirely different character. In fact, the whole fucking character is built around the fact that although he tries, he can never and will never be Darth Vader. That's some self aware writing.
>>70154337
What are some of these questions that affect your ability to understand the plot of the movie?
We had as much of a relationship to the new Republic planets as we did Alderaan when they blew that planet up but nobody makes posts bitching about "We didn't know anybody on Alderaan! Who cares?" We knew that it was the home world of the princess we've seen for about 5 minutes total but nothing more.
No one said the Republic was in charge of anything, just that there was a Republic and that the First Order are not a part of it. What more do you need to know?
I've listed a handful of ways that a movie goer could piece together her abilities.
Pay attention to what happens when Rey grabs Anakin's lightsaber. She hears Obi Wan. She hears Yoda. She hears Luke. I think it's pretty sensible to believe that elements of all of their training seeped into her brain at that moment like with a holocron.
She also gets knowledge from Kylo as he tries to penetrate her mind. I think it's sensible to believe that she may have also pulled some basic abilities to understand the force from that.
She's done two things with the force:
Convince a storm trooper to unlock her. Storm troopers as we know are brainwashed from birth making them particularly weak to mind tricks.
Grab the saber from the snow over Kylo. He was majorly injured and her having pulled some small amount of knowledge from him would make such a feat possible.
Luke was blocking training shots from a remote 5 minutes after being lightly trained by Obi Wan. i don't think these are crazy abilities.
I do largely agree that things were too easy for Rey throughout the movie though. I hope they really ratchet up her problems in 8.
>>70154486
>using prequel logic
Oh, that explains it, youre retarded.
>There should have been an Episode inbetween Episode 6 to better explain how Kylo turned to the darkside, show Luke Skywalker training him and show Kylo slaughtering all his Jedi younglings
That's what we call pointless exposition. I'm not defending this movie but you sound severely retarded.
>>70154486
Anakin is not Vader. I will say that I believe Kylo Ren is the Anakin fall told much better though.
>>70154486
Force powers are the same across all people, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. His costume actions, and voice are all modeled after Vader so is this surprising?
It's like being surprised that Daniel Day Lewis looked like Abraham Lincoln in Lincoln. That's kinda what he was going for.
>>70154486
Kylo's entire past is different, his motivations are different, his level of control and relationship to the dark and light are different. What his master wants him to be is different. He's displaying different Force powers than we've seen before also. And even if he does have some powers in common with Vader, what else would you expect? Their Force sensitives who use the dark side.
The more superficial things he has in common with Vader, like costume and voice, are on fucking purpose. He is purposefully emulating Vader in hopes that he can be as strong. How can you miss this? This wasn't a writing mistake.
>>70154562
>>I've listed a handful of ways that a movie goer could piece together her abilities.
>Pay attention to what happens when Rey grabs Anakin's lightsaber. She hears Obi Wan. She hears Yoda. She hears Luke. I think it's pretty sensible to believe that elements of all of their training seeped into her brain at that moment like with a holocron.
thats not how holocrons work faglord
>>70154506
that's only one review.
>>70154127
I was fine with most of the borrowing until yet another Death Star found its way into the picture. This is where the film started falling apart for me and never really recovered. Just like in A New Hope, the heroes must race against the clock to destroy the Death Star before it wipes out their base. The Trench Run in TFA is a literal remake of the one in ANH, down to Leia and CP3O sitting on the sidelines.While Return of the Jedi didn't have the most original finale in the world, it did have entire fleets engaging in combat and the incomplete Death Star wasn't limited by a lengthy recharge/loading time.
Removing the Death Star, weakening Rey significantly, and making Finn more competent (the amount of potential wasted is heartbreaking) would have done wonders (imo). The third act should have revolved solely around a personal battle between the main characters. The attack on Starkiller Base is the largest showdown in the franchise, yet it feels the shallowest. Lastly, I would have much preferred the water world Jakku was originally envisioned as. It's something different (yet good).
>>70154508
but he still does the same exact shit as Vader does in A New Hope.
>>70154617
yeah, let's switch over to your logic:
Hey, did you see Eragon? People say it's a ripoff of Star Wars, but I don't see it. Eragon doesn't even take place in outer space. Eragon rides a dragon, not an X-Wing, so it's completely different. I guess the story synchs up with A New Hope perfectly, but all the characters have different names so that means it's okay. Was Princess Leia an elf? No. So it's different and not the same.
>>70154686
I said 'like' with a holocron. We've never seen a lightsaber be a holocron either. At least as far as I'm aware. Perhaps a force vision would be more appropriate terminology?
>>70154703
The starkiller is a plot device to get everyone in the same place. The climax IS character driven. Less than 3 minutes are actually spent on the battle to destroy the starkiller
And a planet built upon the ruins of the galactic civil war is better than DUDE OCEAN WORLD LMAO which the series has already done before.
>>70154732
A lot of the story follows the ANH formula, but not everything Kylo does matches up. And if it does it has a different flavor. He opposes using Starkiller and doesn't act to his subordinates like Vader did. Him throwing temper tantrums and destroying machinery instead of people was meant to differentiate him and make it clear that he's not on Vader's level.
Other than that he fought with the hero. As villains do. Except he lost in the very first movie, which shows that he's weak and still needs development whereas Vader was the strong obstacle Luke had to surmount.
>>70152911
That cinegrids garbage.
>>70154703
I agree with you actually that I wish they hadn't included another super weapon. It wasn't really necessary to the rest of the story. Some of the rest of your points are odd though:
ESB also had the rebels escaping their base to avoid imminent destruction by the Empire.
Where else would Leia and C3PO be? Leia's a general, you don't often send those people out with the cavalry.
The giant space battle is an amazing set piece and especially at it's original release was quite mind blowing. Even watching ANH-RotJ today you can see just how many advances they made in that short time period.
I don't think they really needed to change anything about Finn (loved his character from beginning to end). But I would have liked to see Rey face a more obvious challenge or at least be beaten down by Kylo more. Her audition scene where she cries over and over on cue absolutely should've been in the torture scene. She should have started crying and screaming and ultimately in an angry burst broken through to Kylo's mind. It would set her up for a more difficult fight with him and the greater dark side.
A water world would have been very interesting, I wouldn't have had any problems seeing that.
>>70154660
>It's like being surprised that Daniel Day Lewis That's kinda what he was going for.
>>70154663
>He is purposefully emulating Vader in hopes that he can be as strong.
How convenient. For the writer, I mean. Now JJ doesn't have to take any risks by trying to make an original villain, just do the same old sthick and say "no no, it's not me, the creator, being unoriginal, it's the fictional character who's unoriginal."
>>70154797
I think it might have been neat to have had some of the war occur over a water world. It would've been pretty cool watching Rey swim through a downed Death Star hunting for parts and going home to a floating house built on tied together Tie Fighter wings and attached to a much larger floating island dock/pier thing.
An island basically built on the scraps of downed Empire/Republic ships would be pretty neat.
>>70154415
Han, you said it yourself, was a cliffhanger. It does not affect the plot of ESB in any way.
>No one gave a fuck about alderaan either.
Yes, but we at least had Leia reacting to her home planet being destroyed. In TFA we just had people watching them blow up in the sky and going "Oh no..."
>>70149174
>Episode 4 should have explained why Darth Vader was a bad guy and had choke powers.
Fuck off, OP. Once again OP is a massive, stupid faggot.
>>70154970
Can you stop sucking Finn`s dick for a moment? your crush on him is getting sad, he is JarJar without the nigg talk
>>70155017
The character isn't unoriginal though. Vader did not have the problems that Kylo does. Vader's mind was invaded from the outer reaches of space and broken as a child. Vader never had to murder his father to try and silence the call of the light to him. Vader never looked as incompetent as Kylo is made to look.
Kylo is all veneer with a weak husk lying underneath it. He's a villain with some real depth. Depth Vader didn't have until ESB and RotJ.
I'm honestly pretty impressed by the characterization that they've given Ren.
>>70155069
That being my first post about him, sure, I'll take a break.
>>70155074
Yeah Leia's pained look for 3 seconds followed by never mentioning it again and making jokes in her next scene really made it feel impactful.
The loss of Alderaan was only really felt at all because of the skill of Alec Guinness' acting.
>>70154797
Starkiller Base was horribly redundant and took much needed attention away from what mattered. Don't act like another reason couldn't have been written for the characters to come together.
Attached pic is much different from the world in Attack of the Clones.
>>70154922
>destroying machinery instead of people
Kylo force chokes people a lot more aggressively than Vader did.
>Except he lost in the very first movie
So did Vader. The last we saw of him was his tie-fighter spiralling into space.
You're selectively remembering things to fit your argument. I'd say be prepared for the next instalment for Kylo to reveal he's related to one of the heroes, but I guess they already fucking did that too, and I don't think you can blame that stroke of unoriginality on Kylo.
>>70155157
>Vader never had to murder his father to try and silence the call of the light to him.
No, he murdered Obi Wan instead, who played the role of the wise old man in A New Hope. Who played the wise old man in The Force Awakens?
>>70154562
The main problem with the movie was that they never once gave an idea into how the New Republic works. The characters just labeled themselves as part of something and the plot moved along without giving a fuck.
This isn't like ANH where the Empire was in charge. If you explain that the bad guys are in charge and the Rebels are going against them, that's easy to understand. But if you say: "There's bad guys, who the not-rebels are fighting but they are sort of not together with the New Republic who rule the galaxy in some way.
>I've listed a handful of ways that a movie goer could piece together her abilities.
All that you gave me was speculation. No 'movie goes' would know what the fuck is going on. Most of them don't even know what a holocron is.
Also, she can magically become a master with the lightsaber and beat someone who supposedly beat all of Luke's students? This doesn't make sense in the slightest.
>Convince a storm trooper to unlock her. Storm troopers as we know are brainwashed from birth making them particularly weak to mind tricks.
You clearly don't get why the whole scene was horrible. She didn't just 'use' a Mind Trick, she literally came up with the concept and used it in less than one minute.
>>70155265
I really dig the look of that water world. Would have loved to see it. I bet it would've been a massive pain to film though.
>>70153707
this
>>70155245
I said that we had a 'faint' connection to it. TFA did it just so they would avoid any Senate scenes, and no character really gave a shit.
>>70155312
If fags like you were in charge in 1977 they would have kept the scene from ANH where they cut away from the opening battle so Luke and Biggs could talk about imperial collectivization of moisture farming.
The audience would have been bored and no one would have cared about star wars, but who cares, it EXPLAINS things! Star wars is about exposition because phantom menace was my first movie!
>>70154970
I thought more could have been done with Finn's character. He was an opportunity for a completely different perspective in the SW films. Remember the whole traitor thing the film had going? You know, what if Finn was an experienced soldier or something? And he had a personal relationship with Kylo Ren. Maybe he could have been Kylo Ren's most valued ally and Kylo trusted him to track down Rey. But Rey somehow convinces Finn to forsake the dark side and Finn teaches Rey about the "larger world" she has just entered. I don't know, something besides what we got. Finn was too incompetent and Rey was overpowered (too early in the trilogy for what she pulled off).
>>70155297
Kylo force pulled one person to him and held his throat but does not kill him. Vader lifts someone up chokes them to death and throws them into a wall at the beginning of ANH. He also chokes multiple admirals and captains to death throughout the movies. Often times in front of the person he then promotes. That's brutal.
Kylo being Han and Leia's son is unoriginal?
>>70155297
He didn't actually kill Obi Wan. Obi Wan became one with the force. Lor San Tekka did mostly. Han was the smuggler we all know and love up until he saw Kylo carrying Rey away. Then he became a broken father who would do anything to get his boy back.
Han did not have a role of wise old man in TFA. At least not in anywhere near the same capacity as Obi Wan.
>>70151887
I can't even tell what is b8 anymore.
>>70155440
nothing wrong with a bit of world building anon.
>>70155547
Star Wars is not a documentary. Star Wars is beloved because its an easily digestible setting with relatable characters and fast paced editing. Autistic "world building" is pointless. The universe serves the characters, not the other way around.
If the audience wasnt grabbed by the end of the first reel star wars would have been dead on arrival.
>>70155245
>>70155074
The difference with Alderaan is that its destruction ties into the plot of the whole movie. Everyone cares about the Death Star. Before it was destroyed, Alderaan was the destination of Obi-Wan and Luke. It ties into everything.
The Starkiller subplot feels comparatively tacked on, which makes its being a blatant retread all the more egregious. Not even the characters seem to give a fuck about it, casually making jokes about it in comparison to the Death Star that feel self-aware to the point of parody. That's why the destruction of the Republic rings so hollow.
>>70155440
>projecting this hard
ANH had a simple set up. The Empire is evil, and the Rebels are good so they fight.
TFA was just a clusterfuck.
>First Order are the bad guys
>New Republic are in charce
>Resistance is not part of the Republic, but it sort of is
>The First Order had time to build a massive weapon without it being attacked?
It made sense in ANH because the Empire was in charge, but it was retarded in TFA.
>>70155312
Do you not understand the concept of a Republic? What do you need them to explain to you?
Do you struggle to understand that there are three fronts? There is the new Republic, the First Order and the Resistance. The resistance are obviously opposed to the First Order and the First Order is opposed to everyone. The Republic is a neutral party general. All of that is easily understood in the movie.
Yes, it is all speculation. Movies that aren't shit don't explain every minute detail to you. That's how you get things like Midichlorians in the canon. We'll either find out in the next movies how she was able to do it or we'll be left to our own devices to think, imagine and dream what might have happened.
Rey is an expert staff fighter. We see that at the beginning of the movie when she takes on a group of thugs that sneak up on her. Kylo Ren had been shot with a bowcaster, been hurt further by Finn (who had melee training as was shown earlier in the movie) and she still almost lost to him.
Based on what Kylo had done to her it's easy to apply that same information to something like a mind trick. Besides, Rey knows rumors of Jedi etc. There's no reason to believe she's not aware of what some of their rumored abilities are. Plus, I think she got the information from her force vision and from Kylo's mind.
>>70155374
Fair enough. I don't think anyone really cared that much though I did find the scene from the ground as they were about to be blown up to be a cool looking scene.
>>70155466
I would've been open to them exploring the traitor concept more and Finn trying to figure out the 'real' world that he's never really been exposed to but I'm pretty happy with what we got. That might just be because John Boyega and Oscar Isaac both ooze charisma.
>>70155611
>Star Wars is beloved because its an easily digestible setting with relatable characters
You cannot be serious.
>Finn randomly turns on the people he grew up with
>Finn starts cheering with killing his comrades, when he had been visually shaken when one of them died
I can totally relate with that. Just turn off your brain right? XD
>>70155650
Eh. The new Republic is a tepid ally of the Resistance so I think people can piece together it's relative importance. Though I think the relationship was a bit muddy.
I honestly didn't like the whole Star Killer thing either. I just don't hate it as much as some other folk. I would have preferred something different as well.
>>70155657
The new Republic are not in charge of anything except themselves. There are three different organizations in TFA and they make it painfully clear that that's the case. Mostly by using different names for them.
The First Order built the weapon in secret in an uncharted part of the galaxy. This is said in the movie.
>>70155611
I swear you fucktards should be gassed.
Why is it so hard for retards to understand trek n star wars have lasted because of world building ?? Hundreds of movies in the last century have varying degrees of spectacular characters but you sure as shit can't slap marlon brando on some fucking oranges to increase sales.
>>70155692
>Rey is an expert staff fighter. We see that at the beginning of the movie when she takes on a group of thugs that sneak up on her. Kylo Ren had been shot with a bowcaster, been hurt further by Finn (who had melee training as was shown earlier in the movie) and she still almost lost to him.
The movie doesn't really convey this though, even if it's obviously part of what it wants to. Kylo is in total control of the situation until Rey goofily reminds herself that the Force is, like, totally a thing. Then she wins. It's not as if she exploits her wound or says something that unnerves him. She just suddenly turns the tide.
>>70155778
It has nothing to do with the New Republic being "important" in terms of the setting. It has everything to do with its lack of significance in the plot and what the characters are doing. Nobody cares about the New Republic because the Starkiller is a sloppy subplot in general. That's what I'm talking about.
>>70149174
It's so they can go back and do prequels again.
Prequels of the sequel trilogy.
>>70155790
I don't think I would say total control of the situation, but that's being a bit pedantic. It is an odd scene. I'm sure it won't surprise you that it was a late filmed scene that they went back to get and shoved into that space.
I would have liked to see Rey be tempted by the dark side a bit here and striking out in anger instead of such a controlled reaction but ultimately it's not a huge fault to me. Just a slightly awkward scene.
>>70155692
The problem with the three fronts is that there is no reason for two of them to exist. It seems unrealistically easy to break away from the New Republic just because you want to.
>Kylo Ren had been shot with a bowcaster, been hurt further by Finn (who had melee training as was shown earlier in the movie) and she still almost lost to him.
Not like Dark Side users draw power from anger and pain or anything.
>Based on what Kylo had done to her it's easy to apply that same information to something like a mind trick. Besides, Rey knows rumors of Jedi etc. There's no reason to believe she's not aware of what some of their rumored abilities are. Plus, I think she got the information from her force vision and from Kylo's mind.
>I think
Very compelling argument.
Here's the bottom line. If you get in the ring with a professional boxer, there is no way you can beat him even if you watch him fight. It's retarded for someone that took up boxing only minutes before the fight, to beat him.
>>70155839
I agree no one really cares about the New Republic, but no one cared about Alderaan either. The point of destroying them was to establish the size and destructive power of Star Killer base.
I think we're on the same page of (generally) not liking the Star Killer plot.
>>70155880
My problem with the scene is how easily it could have been avoided.
>Rey manages to hold off Kylo by the skin of her teeth
>Ground breaks between them and Chewie arrives with the Falcon to take Rey
That's all they had to do, but instead they went with the most retarded choice. ANH made it clear that you couldn't just get a lightsaber and start swinging it around, but TFA forgot all about htat.
Man this version of star wars reeks of Star Wars: High School Musical or Star Wars: Glee
it's like disney doesn't know how to make a movie that isn't based on teenagers
>>70155903
Which two shouldn't exist...? You're left with either just the new Republic, just the First Order or just the Resistance (with nothing to resist) if two of them don't.
>>70155903
I believe there are degrees beyond which it is not beneficial to them. Especially when they're unpolished and not fully trained like Ren.
>>70155903
You might have better luck in that fight if the boxer had just had their lower abdomen removed by a .50 caliber rifle.
Rey never had a force battle with Kylo. She did have a lightsaber battle with him but she's not a total noob in regards to fighting. She's an expert staff fighter. This is shown at the beginning of the movie when she's attacked by thugs trying to get BB-8 and she bests them all.
>>70155721
No one has friends in the First Order you retard, they dont have identities. You are probabaly a sociopath if you dont understand why he turned.
But yeah, he totally should have stepped out of that TIE and had a heart to heart with the stormtroopers and told them the First Order is evil, im sure they would have been really receptive. And the whooping and hollering was when he blew up a turret, numbnuts.
>>70155979
Luke was a farmboy. Rey was a hardened scavenger and was letting the force act through her.
You also cant reconcile kylo's character with what you think a star wars villain should be
>>70155919
No, but Alderaan was both significant to Leia and also where the main characters were headed. Alderaan's destruction sets the entire rest of the movie into motion, even if it isn't especially emotionally gripping. The New Republic's destruction is *only* to serve as an easy way of showcasing its power and, given the Starkiller's total existence feels contrived and underwhelming (which you agree with), the scene feels flat and awkward as a result.
>>70155979
TFA showed it pretty well I think. Finn had been trained with melee weapons but was bested quite quickly. Rey was an expert staff fighter and becoming familiar with the force and she did barely hold Kylo off. She got one slash across the face and burnt the bottom of his robe and that's about it. Considering that Kylo had to capture her alive for Snoke I think it's a pretty fair showing.
I would have changed the "... the force..." *mindfully closes eyes* scene though.
>>70156003
>Rey never had a force battle with Kylo
But that's exactly how she won.
>>70156051
They were going to Alderaan to meet Leia's father so they could join the rebellion which they wind up doing anyway. Alderaan's destruction didn't really impact the ultimate plot of the movie at all.
The destruction of the fledgling new Republic and Star Killer base does also serve to essentially flatten the field.
Now there's the Resistance and the First Order. Both basically crippled militarily and sets the stage for the much larger fight between the light and the dark with Rey and Kylo.
I personally think Snoke is using Kylo as a puppet and will ultimately try to break his mind and take over his body entirely but we'll see.
>>70156060
>stupid fucks think staff wielding translates to weightless sword
>>70156090
She didn't win so much as she didn't lose. Her focusing and letting the force flow through her certainly enabled her to surprise Kylo and get a lucky shot in but I'm not convinced that she would have won the fight if Kylo hadn't been instructed to capture her alive and bring her to Snoke.
>>70156171
The lightsabers as described by Lucas and re-envisioned by JJ were as heavy blades. Look it up. That's why there's so much heft and weight behind each swing in TFA.
>>70156008
>No one has friends in the First Order
I guess the guy who died at the beginning of the movie was just a random guy Finn didn't give a fuck about.
Are you fucking retarded?
Even the fucking Nazis had friends.
Also, I never said that he should have talked to them, but he should have shown more remorse.
>>70156171
>prequel logic
George's original notes and the OT shows the lightsabers having weight. And you know theres the force helping her and all
>>70156234
>Even the fucking Nazis had friends.
But the Nazis didnt have systematic brainwashing to rob their soldiers of any sort of identity beyond a serial number and unquestioned loyalty to the state
>>70156234
That was mostly Finn seeing what could become of himself if he stayed in the First Order.
>>70156172
She overwhelmed him, disarmed him, and had him at her mercy. She won, even if Kylo would have been able to kill her had he approached their fight with that in mind at the start.
>>70156223
>It's okay that JJ retconned lightsabers
>It's okay that JJ copied ANH
>>70156171
If you watch the scene you can actually see her using the saber like it was a staff. Her attacks are very similar to when she had the staff at the beginning of the movie.
>>70149904
I know that TFA was shit
>>70156295
Look up what Lucas said about lightsabers for the OT. There's a reason Luke always uses his two handed. It was supposed to be heavy, like a broadsword.
>>70156284
Kylo originally force launched her into a tree and had her at his mercy. These battles can turn around quite quickly.
Kylo could have done the same thing again and sent her crashing into a tree. His crippling surprise and insecurity got the better of him though and he froze.
>>70156295
The one who retconned them is George, idiot. Jj put them back in line with the original films, the ones that actually had good fight choreography (well, ESB and Jedi)
>>70156274
>But the Nazis didnt have systematic brainwashing to rob their soldiers of any sort of identity beyond a serial number and unquestioned loyalty to the state
Finn's existence invalidates your argument.
If you want to continue with this argument, pick one:
>The First Order does have systematic brainwashing and Finn is a badly written character made solely for plot convenience
or
>The First Order does not have systematic brainwashing and Finn is a badly written character made solely for plot convenience
>>70156354
>Kylo originally force launched her into a tree and had her at his mercy.
Yes, and? That doesn't change my point that she ultimately won by channeling the Force and completely overwhelming him. Nothing else matters to my point.
>>70155504
I stopped watching force awakens when they got to the bar and the little orange lady gave the nigerian guy the lightsaber.
Was it as bad as the prequels? Oh it was worse, much fucking worse, because it was BORING. It was rushed, contrived bullshit. The blatant and unnecessary fanservice felt more like an insult to my intelligence than some sort of "loving tribute". It felt like JJ was cynically saying "yeah you'll shove this putrid shit right down your throats as long as you get to see Han and Chewie, won't you?"
TFA was bland, generic garbage and the longer we wait the more people will begin to realize it.
>>70156410
When you have tens of thousands of people the odds of one of them breaking programming goes up. Eventually you'll get one. Finn happened to be that one.
It also was made clear the First Order did have troopers that caused them trouble and they kept track of them. Phasma mentions that this Finn's first offense (more like ofFinnse amirite).
It's the same way that a genius can come out of a poorly funded shitty school.
>>70156382
>the ones that actually had good fight choreography
They were great movies, but the choreography was boring.
This has a lot to do with the main thing I hate about TFA. Not the badly written characters, not the copy/paste script, no, what really pissed me off was how badly they pandered at the audience
>>70156458
you didn't finish the movie so your opinion holds no weight and is completely worthless.
if you don't have the attention span to finish a fucking Star Wars movie, you are well and truly fucked in the head.
>>70156431
She overwhelmed him temporarily. Who disagreed with that? My point is that temporarily overwhelming someone once (especially after what had happened to Kylo) does not make the person GOAT.
There's a reason that the same wrestlers can compete in the same tournaments year after year. Just cause you won once doesn't mean you will again.
>>70156458
>the longer we wait the more people will begin to realize it
It sounds like you dont understand why people hated the prequels and just think hating the new star wars is fashionable and want to be ahead of the curve.
Prequels are fundamentally broken movies on every level. TFA may be too similar to ANH but at least its a mechanically well made movie.
>>70156410
>Finn's existence invalidates your argument.
Except Phasma and Hux have a conversation about "reconditioning" which implies people DO break conditioning. Finn just got out of dodge before they could brainwash him again.
Try paying attention next time k?
>>70156518
>Prequels are fundamentally broken movies on every level. TFA may be too similar to ANH but at least its a mechanically well made movie.
>>70156482
So you went with:
>The First Order does have systematic brainwashing and Finn is a badly written character made solely for plot convenience
>It also was made clear the First Order did have troopers that caused them trouble and they kept track of them.
It wasn't made clear. It wasn't in the movie at all.
>>70156551
Did you miss the part where Phasma talked about reconditioning troopers and that this was Finn's first offense? That implies that other troopers have caused problems and broken conditioning.
Just because you missed a plot point doesn't mean it wasn't there.
>>70156517
>using wrestlers as an example
At least you agree that Rey's fight felt incredibly fake
>>70156594
Should I have used MMA instead? I don't watch any of it. I guess wrestling has gone out of style since I was a kid.
>>70156594
Not incredibly. Just a bit odd at the end.
>>70156590
But nothing on the level of defecting from them. If they want to have brainwashing in the movie, fine, but if they make it so it has literally no effect on the person being brainwashed, then it's badly written shit.
>>70156642
Wrestling is fake anon.
Also, I realize that nothing I say will sway you, like nothing you say will sway me. Let's just agree to disagree since I'm going to sleep.
>>70156694
We have no indication that there haven't been other defectors. I would say we have the opposite indication based on how fearful Finn is of what they'll do to him if they catch him.
Do you want literally every single thing explained to you in a movie? This is how you get midichlorians.
>>70156694
Honestly at this point it sounds like youre jist complaining because you want to keep bitching even though youve been BTFO and dont want to admit it.
>>70156730
Not all wrestling is the WWE anon.
I wasn't even trying to sway you honestly. I just like talking about Star Wars. Probably better to talk to someone who disagrees than someone who agrees. Like I said up above: I only have on IRL who is a big fan of Star Wars so I don't get to talk about it as much as I'd like. It's been my favorite franchise since my parents first showed me the OT when I a little tyke.
>>70156732
I don't need everything explained, but it seemed like a missed opportunity to have Finn turn so easily. That was their chance to have something different, but instead we ended up with a mediocre version of ANH.
>>70156754
>youve been BTFO
>>70156788
Well, the movie was already 2 hours and 15 minutes long. There's only so much they can shove in there. We barely got any Poe Dameron for example.
I've already disagreed quite strongly with the other assertion. At the very least there is nothing like Finn's desertion in ANH.
>>70156787
I thought you meant WWE, my bad.
Star Wars is my favorite franchise as well, so it was frustrating to be disappointed with the new movie. I really hope they don't copy ESB in the next one, I want something new.
Anyway, I'm going to bed anon. This is probably the first time I end an argument on good terms here.
>>70156843
Fair enough. But I would have wanted them to explore Finn a bit more. I'm not saying that they should have added scenes, but that they shouldn't have followed ANH so closely.
>>70156880
No problem, I don't blame you for that being your first thought.
I hope for the same. Rian Johnson hopefully will be able to deliver. His impact on the Bloodlines book hopefully indicates that he's at least thinking quite broadly with the new movie. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Good night anon, glad to have you as a counter point.
>>70152977
Someday or maybe never.
>>70156928
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I would've liked them to look at him some more too. Hopefully there'll be some additional comics and books to fill in the gaps. That's always been one of my favorite parts of Star Wars. The hugely expanded universe.
>>70153788
No they're not you big idiot. Between 3 and 4 all clones were destroyed... well most. Stormtroopers are all human (/humanoid) officers. Not clones
>>70155861
you are probably right but damn I hope you are wrong