Was Civil War the first kid-unfriendly Marvel film? A long, laborious and thematically complex first act rife with heavy dialogue scenes, and a brutal, violent finale made the viewer require patience, political understanding and tolerance for brutal fighting.
>Marvelfags pretend their kiddie quipshit is deep.
>>69978259
Marvel films have enough shoot shoot bang bang.
Age of Ultron has a scene where the Black Widow describes how she was made sterile.
All the older fil ms have violence and scenes not for kids.
>>69978259
Tony Stank is dank meme
>>69978291
Technically, something can be laborious and thematically complex without being at all deep. It's more of an issue of scope rather than depth.
>watch deleted scenes from Iron Man
>two hot girls almost naked ask Tony that he should think of a number between 1-5
>he says 3
>they laugh and go into a bedroom (with picking up another hot girl on their way)
they weren't always so kiddie friendly
>>69978259
It wanted to be, then it realized it needed kid-money, so it throws in a dumb Spider-Man scene and even dumber airport scene.
The movie never recovers after that.
>>69978259
Yes, it stoped being kid friendly to become teenager friendly, making them think their movie is intelligent went talking about politics. Same shit with TWS.
>thematically complex
>Was Civil War the first kid-unfriendly Marvel film?
Judging by the amount of retards who literally did not understand what happened in the movie, yes.
>>69978259
>manchildren genuienly think there's thematic weight and intelligent ideas in their mass-produced conveyer belt products marketed to little kids
>literally men in spandex hitting each other
>>69978767
None of them fight in spandex, though.
>>69978767
>the thematic depth of a film is determined by what material their clothes are made out of
I'll give you that the government oversight dilemma is a little more gray and nuanced than Winter Soldier's themes of governmental power relating to the helicarriers, but it's not exactly complicated stuff. A bad guy is still behind the conflict and forcing the action. The audiences isn't so much thinking about which side is right or wrong, or what compromises could be made. They're thinking about how if only the Avengers could see they were being manipulated they would come together and fight the bad guy. It's pretty straightforward, and any interesting themes or dilemmas are only hinted at then remain unexplored in favor of another CGI punch out.
>>69979134
> A bad guy is still behind the conflict and forcing the action.
What? Zemo had nothing to do with the accords.
>>69979134
>They're thinking about how if only the Avengers could see they were being manipulated they would come together and fight the bad guy.
Except that Tony realized that Zemo (and the frozen Russian agents) were the real threat halfway through the movie. In the end it didn't matter because he genuinely felt betrayed by Steve and wanted to kill the Winter Soldier.
>>69979134
Zemo isn't behind the Sokovia Accords.
The conflict stemming from the Accords is NOT a part of Zemo's plan, and he had no hand in the airport fight.
In fact, Zemo could not have possibly known the Avengers were fighting in Leipzig in the first place, because he was at the ass end of fucking Siberia at the time.
Fucking hell, the movie has been out for a month and you fucking retards STILL don't fucking understand this simple fucking concept.
>>69978259
I grew up seeing Mufasa dead.
Let's not even get to the older guys who saw Bambi's mother get shot.
Kids have it easy these days.
>>69978767
Not a single character has spandex.
>>69979418
>>69979381
>>69979323
The Sokovia Accords also weren't the main cause of conflict. There was disagreement about them, sure, but what set the real conflict off was the bombing in Vienna and Bucky getting tied to it.
>>69978259
>A long, laborious and thematically complex first act rife with heavy dialogue scenes, and a brutal, violent finale made the viewer require patience, political understanding and tolerance for brutal fighting.
I'm sorry... but... there are no words to describe how fucking deep you've gone into the rabbit hole.
>>69979500
Without the accords, the conflict would have been handled with diplomacy and all the Avengers working together.
>>69978259
Come on mate.
Stop trying to justify why you watch capeshit, with false interpretations.
Just admit you're a manchild and get on with it.
>>69979500
If the Accords had not been a thing then Cap could've brought in the Avengers to catch Bucky.
And then they learn Bucky didn't do it.
And then Zemo has no access to Bucky, and can't find the mission report, and can't drive the Avengers apart.
The Accords are very much the main conflict in the film.
Without it, Zemo is not a problem.
>>69978259
>Despite the supergeeks’ arguing either against working for the restrictive capitalist government or for their own sense of doing right and correcting injustice, the fact is, nothing here has gravitas. Civil War is politics as adolescents misperceive social/global crisis.
>This has been going on for so long (ever since Hollywood realized the bounty to be had in cajoling comic-book culture’s ready audience; since, say, the 1978 Superman film, then 1989’s Batman) that, by now, the brainwashing is complete. The trivializing has grabbed such hold that when a genuine pop artist like Zack Snyder deepens comics lore into visionary, moral art (the profound Man of Steel and Batman v Superman), many fanboys, and critics, react with anger, resentment — and ignorance.
>>69979716
>actually quoting Armond White
You're even more pathetic than people who watch capeshit.
>>69979521
I'm the OP, I just watched the movie for the third time on a google drive video from my iPhone. Screenshotted it three times, made three capeshit threads. The other one is image.png as well.
You took the bait hard my man. That being said, I somewhat enjoyed this movie. Beginning was much too slow, ending was 8/10. Thanks for your time, and know that if capekino threads get the most replies, that's what I'll be spamming. Why attempt to discuss your favorite childhood movies (Iron Man 1, Transformers 1, Avatar) if they get no replies? No, I'm a cancerous millennial shitposter. Enjoy it.
>>69979697
>>69979580
That's all fine and good, but you can trace the causal chain as far as you like and you'll end up at Hydra. That's not really the point, the point is that Zemo used the Accords to manipulate the Avengers, causing the main conflict of the movie. Without Zemo you wouldn't have had Civil War, you would have had Captain America: Conference Room Debate (which could have been good considering that scene was one of the most interesting in the entire series)
>>69980049
>. Without Zemo you wouldn't have had Civil War, you would have had Captain America: Conference Room Debate (
Well then we disagree here, because it was always going to come to blows in my opinion. The second Tony locked Scarlet Witch up in the tower, Rogers would have never signed the papers.
>>69979716
>the profound Man of Steel and Batman v Superman
Holy kek
To think I actually agreed with him before.
>>69979807
First day on /tv/ kid?
This isn't reddit, you're pleb opinions aint worth shit here. There are no upvotes or downvoting. Good luck shitposting
>>69978259
>Was Civil War the first kid-unfriendly Marvel film?
No, that's Deadpool.
>>69981193
>Deadpool
>not kid friendly
Deadpool is literally aimed at edgy kids.
The movie didn't make sense, even in the context of the MCU.
>1. People die during massive conflicts involving supernatural, otherworldly, or man-made world-ending events. The Avengers saved New York from complete destruction by stopping Loki's Chitauri army. The city was fucked up for sure, but what was the alternative? Hand over the planet to Loki and his sponsors? In Age of Ultron, Tony Stark and friends build Ultron, who goes rogue and fucks shit up. As a result, the capital of Sokovia is destroyed, but a lot of people are saved. Tons more people would have been killed if the Avengers had no part in the conflict. In Civil War, the Avengers are told to sign the accord after what happened in Lagos, Nigeria. The Wakandans were killed by mercenaries, not the Avengers. The Avengers stopped criminals from getting their hands on a biological weapon or whatever, but that pales in comparison to the deaths of what was it, 22 people? The Avengers save lives.
>>69982088
>2. Vision talks about the equation where after Tony Stark's revelation that he is Iron Man, and with the rate of superheroes appearing, the number of potentially world-ending events increased equally. This should tell anyone "Then absolutely, under no circumstances limit your resources and abilities." More superheroes makes the world-ending events easier to manage. See: Age of Ultron. Did Vision think that by toning back superheroes’ ability to go out and save people is going to keep bad guys from trying to get their hands on biological weapons and developing world-ending technologies? If anything, the Avengers should double their efforts to stay AHEAD of the equation! We, the viewers already know that Thanos is on his way to Earth or whatever for the Infinity War movie, so how are we supposed to side with Team Iron Man, knowing the heroes’ powers would be limited by a government that just fucks around?
>3. There is no reason the Avengers should function with government oversight. In the MCU, the Avengers were under the command of SHIELD, which was governed by the World Security Council, who thought it was a better idea to launch a nuclear weapon at New York than let the Avengers have a go at saving the world, or even trying to deal with Loki diplomatically. The World Security Council and Shield (in ‘Winter Soldier’) had been infiltrated in every department by Hydra Agents. Explain to me how no one seemed to agree with Captain America when he said that “groups have agendas” or whatever?
>>69982127
>4. General Thunderbolt Ross appeared in this movie, despite having no reason to be there. He is now the Secretary of State, and pressures the Avengers to sign the Sokovia Accords. He tells the Avengers about the horrible collateral damage they’ve done in saving the planet on multiple occasions. That’s right. The man who is responsible for the research that led to the creation of the Hulk, potentially the most powerful and destructive of all the MCU heroes, is given a very important position in the American government despite the fact that his creation has not been seen for years, and he has been unable to find or control the Hulk.
>5. Tony Stark, who overhauled the entire Stark Corporation when he decided it wasn’t a good idea to make weapons for government agencies anymore, decides himself to become a weapon working on behalf of government agencies.
>>69982197
Also this is a reminder that in 'Winter Solider', if Captain America's team didn't destroy the helicarriers and crash them into the Potomac, that literally thousands of Americans would have been systematically executed by the powerful guns, including the President of the United States.
And this asshole thinks he should wait around for bad things to happen before calling the Avengers, who want to stop them before they start?
>>69978259
>Was Civil War the first kid-unfriendly Marvel film?
Nah, it still had plenty for kids.
Kids don't have to "get" everything in a movie to enjoy it at that basic level, just like most adults. And unlike adults, they're not going to complain if that basic level of entertainment is all they get.
>>69982127
>If anything, the Avengers should double their efforts to stay AHEAD of the equation!
haha fucking this
>>69982088
Wanda is directly responsible for what happened in Lagos.
Sure, she saved a lot of people, but she really has no place in an active combat situation if she can't control herself.
The UN was going to dump the Accords on the Avengers anyway, the Lagos incident was just convenient, timing wise, to really empathize the Accords.
But, the Accords themselves aren't really about the collateral damage, that's just what they're spinning it as.
It's about the powers that be struggling for control in a world growing more chaotic every day.
So they try to force the Avengers to work for them, to retain some control, so they can rest easy.
>>69978259
>Was Civil War the first kid-unfriendly Marvel film?
Explosions?
>check
Inappropriate jokes to ease tension?
>check
Lack of themes that require specific knowledge (such as philosophy, art discussion or real-world politics)?
>check
Enemies talking like friends throughout?
>check
Runtime under two and a half-hours?
>check
Lack of themes that could cause distress (such as extended scenes of violence, rape or legitimately-held viewpoints that differ from the accepted)?
>check
Yeah no, still pretty fucking child friendly
>>69978259
>thematically complex
Captain America: Civil War
-Villain is an ordinary guy with no super powers
-Villain manipulates people using deception to cause heroes to fight each other
-Movie is all about the human consequences of a previous film
-Movie is used to set up a new franchise.
Batman vs Superman
-Villain is an ordinary guy with no super powers
-Villain manipulates people using deception to cause heroes to fight each other
-Movie is all about the human consequences of a previous film
-Movie is used to set up a new franchise.
Partisan faggots utterly and completely BTFO
>>69978259
>A long, laborious and thematically complex first act rife with heavy dialogue scenes, and a brutal, violent finale made the viewer require patience, political understanding and tolerance for brutal fighting.
What movie were you watching?
>>69982306
But the movie doesn't portray this at all as a good idea, under any circumstance
how are the viewers supposed to side with Tony Stark's team?
>>69982355
Anon didn't mention BvS, though, and wasn't comparing Civil War to BvS.
So what's your argument here?
>>69982197
i never realized that the general or whatever was from the hulk series
it really doesnt make sense that he is suddenly the secretary of state after fucking up so bad in the hulk movie
>>69978439
I remember watching the giant Ant-Man scene and it looked like one of those giant robots right out of Power Rangers. shit was rediculous
The whole Avengers battle or whatever was fucking insane. You can tell that Spiderman was shoe-horned in, post-production during re-shoots
When Ant-Man went giant, I cringed a bit.
The whole fight was so benign, no one wanted to hurt each other, and they were quipping back and forth through the whole battle. When Rhodes breaks his back or whatever, it was such a fake, manufactured mood shift to "see? fighting is bad" despite the glorification of violence immediately before
>>69982355
Oh shit!
>>69982354
They were friends you buffoon.
>>69982355
Captain America: Civil War
>-Villain is an ordinary guy with no super powers
You talking about Zemo? Because he hardly counts as the villain. The villains were the other Avengers and Black Panther
>-Villain manipulates people using deception to cause heroes to fight each other
Plot armour that allows you to perfectly predict the future without explanation hardly counts as strong writing and doesn't help your case
>-Movie is all about the human consequences of a previous film
You mean Age of Ultron? Cause they conveniently ignore how that was all Tony's fault and instead of focusing on that, the focus on the after-effects that have never before been mentioned and were entirely not the fault of the Avengers
Batman vs Superman
>-Villain is an ordinary guy with no super powers
Yes. Though again the focus is on Batman v Superman. Nevermind Doomsday
>-Villain manipulates people using deception to cause heroes to fight each other
Yes, but it actually makes sense and doesn't require Lex to be able to perfectly predict the future
The closest suspension of disbelief is in learning superman's identity, but considering it's revealed that he has files observing all the meta-humans, this is barely a leap
>-Movie is all about the human consequences of a previous film
Only as a set-up
The films is actually about fear of what can't be controlled, the death of God, and man's value
Did you watch either film?
>>69982306
>directly responsible
so she was in charge of the team that brought her to Nigeria?
she intended to kill people when she went there?
she didn't make a mistake that led to the deaths of people in the building instead of people on the ground?
did you even watch the movie?
>>69982714
Black Panther wasn't friends with anyone until the end
>>69982722
She's responsible because she's in an active combat situation without fully grasping her powers, or being able to control them.
Even if Cap gave her the go ahead, she should be aware of that simple fact: she cannot control her own powers.
This isn't just some guy with a gun, this is a mentally unstable person with reality warping powers.
>>69980661
This. Steve ceasing to be Captain America became innevitable the moment Wanda was declared guilty until proven innocent and shat on for not being American. Intensified by Cap's feelings about hesitating against Rumlow.
"This isn't freedom, this is fear."
>>69982818
Who took part in an action that saved the lives of potentially thousands by stopping Crossbones' team from getting the biological agent
you're really not helping your case by saying Wanda was the bad guy here
>>69982771
I don't care.
>>69982867
And if Vision had subbed for Wanda, Rumlow would've never gotten the weapon.
Or wouldn't have gotten far enough with the weapon to endanger the lives of the townspeople.
I'm not trying to make Wanda the bad guy, she did save people, but the fact remains that she's powerful and inexperienced and can't fully grasp or control her powers, which makes her extremely dangerous.
>>69979444
>saw
Heard.
>>69982197
>5. Tony Stark, who overhauled the entire Stark Corporation when he decided it wasn’t a good idea to make weapons for government agencies anymore, decides himself to become a weapon working on behalf of government agencies.
this one drives me fucking insane. tony stark gave up weapons in favor of renewable energy or whatever, and in age of ultron he creates ultron with good intentions of saving the earth from alien forces.
the line was like 'we can stop weapons dealers as much as we want, but up there, thats the end game' so he decides to build ultron
and then sells himself to the governments that want to use him as a weapon, since the weapon HE developed after quitting making weapons, went rogue
i dunno man
its a shit series
No, it's still kiddie bullshit
>>69983033
get a load of this faggot who wants to limit the avengers' right to control themselves and their powers because a few africans died as collateral damage
next you're going to tell me captain america was in the wrong when he crashed the helicarriers into the potomac to save millions of lives.
>>69983054
The thing is, the UN isn't just getting an Iron Man armor that they could remote control, they're getting Stark, who's in control of the suit.
>>69983033
Rhodey sure found out how skilled and competent Vision is. He seems even more unsteady than Wanda.
Wanda is not mentally unstable in the MCU. She's prone to anxiety, and is emotionally frail and introverted, and her powers can probably amp her emotions quite sharply, but she's not Bendis-crazy.
>>69983129
>next you're going to tell me captain america was in the wrong when he crashed the helicarriers into the potomac to save millions of lives.
Of course he wasn't.
An argument could be made if no one was aware that SHIELD was really HYDRA, because the intention of Project Insight was benign.
And yes, the Avengers most definitely need oversight and accountability.
But hey, if you want a squad that's 99% made up of American citizens, 3 of whom are United States military personnel/officers, with powers they could use to destroy countries without breaking a sweat roaming around the world unchecked, then be my guest.
You're arguing this from a meta-perspective where you know for absolute certainty that the Avengers are the good guys.
The common people in-universe of the MCU don't have the privilege of going to see Captain America: Civil War at the theaters to know their side of the story.
Most people's, like the Sokovians and people from similar war torn countries, only exposure to Tony Stark is the missiles bearing his name destroying their homes.
are any of the more comic and cartoon oriented watchers not confused as i am with the movie version of zemo? he might as well just be a different character, he has just about nothing in common with the original version, there isn't even a "sokovia" for him to avenge in the comics, he's just a lawful evil vandal savage-esque savant-archetype villain
>>69978259
>Was Civil War the first kid-unfriendly Marvel film?
No less so than The Winter Soldier.
>>69978259
>the first
If you're counting Civil War then you have to count Winter Soldier too.
>>69982390
>how are the viewers supposed to side with Tony Stark's team?
Seeing as its a Captain America movie, the viewer isn't supposed to.
Tony didn't need to be right, just understandable.
He was a mess with guilt
>>69978291
This.
Capeshit is marketed towards kidults, manchildren.
>>69978259
Marvel got too involved at the end. Kevin Fagie wanted them to be super best friends at the end again like in Avengers, so had Steve send Tony a love letter.
Tony should have ripped the fucking thing up.
>>69983474
meta-perspective?
We've followed these characters for their entire lives as superheroes. They are literally presented to us raw, with nothing hidden. We see their struggles and go along with them on these crazy adventures... and you're gonna try and tell us that they MIGHT not be good guys?
That's not meta
that's storytelling and basic understanding
I went to see the movie with only about 15 people in the audience and 4 of them were children. Two single dads one with three kids and one with one, all of them sitting in the row right in front of us. The kids seemed completely uninterested in the film. Frankly I was a bit disappointed... I did not find it very "fun" and I can understand why kids would find it boring. That said, very anecdotal,
Civil War sets up:
1. Avengers fracturing
2. Black Panther
3. Spiderman
4. A disillusioned Wanda going to Strange
5. Cap becoming Nomad
6. Some new "Govengers" like Carol Danvers joining Team Stark.
7. Hope stepping up
>>69983634
YOU know the characters are good.
The characters living inside the MCU necessarily do not, because they can't watch the movies, because the movies don't exist in their universe.
>>69982819
Without Zemo Black Batman's dad doesn't explode, there is no Bucky angle, Team cap doesn't get arrested trying to save Bucky, Team cap doesn't assemble in an attempt to get to Siberia to stop the winter soldiers and IM doesn't start a fight because his mom died. Without Bucky's imminent death Cap and IM aren't coming to blows anytime soon and the movie would be self righteous Cap calling Tony on his imprisoning stifling shit and Tony calling Cap on his self righteous idealist bullshit until Thanos shows up at the end of the credits (again) to remind us that eventually this guy is going to show up and the avengers will have to punch him.
>>69983660
Not even when Spider-Man was on screen? That shit made me turn into a kid.
Will ask this here too just in case someone knows and to not make another cape thread
>>69985105
Don't read comics so I will ask.
What will come after Thanos? Is he the most powerfull villan in MCU or there are others even worst or at least at his same level?
