>people can hear him in the past
>can't change the past
This doesn't even make sense, he just wind whisper to Ned not to go to kings landing in 20 years
>>69963701
It doesnt have to make sense man, its shit writing to keep stupid people questioning it and feeling "smart" about it, something like that movie "Inception" its so dumb that it become "genious" becasue people were afraid they would be called idiots if they bashed it.
Just shit writing for bored house wives and teenage kids.
>>69963701
He could've just listened to his mom and not climbed to tower..
Why go full autism
>>69963757
Says the man who writes a paragraph congratulating himself over the intelligence of others, for he sees that it is "dumb writing".
>>69963701
>he can't change the past
This. He is a factor in influencing events in the past, but he can't change what happened.
>>69963701
The ink is dry. The future and past are determined. Bran's attempts to change it are what made it in the first place.
It is more than likely now, that Aerys II went mad due to Bran's voice on his head.
He can't re-change the past because he already influenced/changed it to the point where reality is now.
>>69963891
>can't change the past
why not?
>>69963908
strong feeling it'll be the same voice that vary heard when he had his balls burnt too
>>69963908
>universe's creator unambiguously declares determinism
the fact that said imaginary universe is in fact pre-determined does nothing to lessen the sting
>>69963997
In the books, Jon found his direwolf pup because of the noise wind made directed his attention to it. That might be something.
>>69964029
Why does it sting so? The whole series is a great example of how structures, not individuals, shape history.
>>69963861
Because it is dumb writing, i watch the show man, every season they hesitate with the plot just to unravel it and pack it in 2 last episodes leaving huge cliffhanger for next season to keep people on their toes, if thats good writing im Martha Stewart!
>>69964084
So, please explain analytically, what makes the current Bran plot "dumb writing"?
>>69963908
Not brans but blood ravens.
Blood Raven tried warning King aerys about the white walkers, probably told him to burn them, resulting in the the king going mad and wanting to burn people.
>>69964043
considering each Wolf either brought about an important plot point or saved their owners life I'd say your probably right
>>69964142
>>69964043
>direwolves
>relevant
How is this form of time travel shit? It is no different than Terminator.
Redditors ITT
>>69963891
>there are literally people who don't understand this
>>69963701
fucking retard
THE INK IS DRY. that means the story is already written. how fucking hard is it to understand? Bran is just cause of certain events that have already happened.
>>69964142
Okay ill bite, he was not interesting character, crippled not worth mentioning "guys he can worg" viewrs were meh, then sudenly "Guys he can travel trhought time!" viewrs "OMG BEST CHAR EVERRRR!!!"
>>69963701
So is Bran the voice that Varys heard at his weenie roast?
>>69964062
>example
It's fiction? And to be honest I don't know how the books differ but the show feels very character driven.
>>69964142
you fucking explain to me right now, why the fuck did bloodraven and bran have that vision in winterfell in the first place?
i think it's somewhat obvious BR KNOWS that Bran is going to time warg into Hodor, when he says "listen to your friend". so then the only reason he has to do this is because of some fucking bullshit causality loop, he does it because he does it in the future
why?
because he does it in the future
why?
because he does it in the future
time travel is fucking retarded and their execution of this scene was shit too
also that stupid cunt CotF who alluha akbar'd herself just to create more drama in the scene instead of throwing her fireball thing
>>69963964
Think of it like Harry Potter movie 3. Harry and Hermoine went back in time and were the things that influenced what happened in the past. Like Hermoine throwing the rock in the window to let their past selves know that people were coming.
Bran is doing the same. No matter what Bran does in the past, he's already done it essentially.
>>69963908
So he can change the past once to write the timeline but can't change it again? Shit writing baka
>>69964429
This is exactly what i ment by "shitty writing" excellent post
>>69964473
KYS faggot. Timeline is already written, like the god's work. Bran is just a narrator, or a player that is a factor in the events. How hard is it fucking to understand?
>>69964429
Because it's time stuff, it's supposed to be complicated, recursive you asshat.
>>69963964
are you people actually retarded or something?
>>69964451
So it's like time splitters future perfect?
>tfw you can't go back in time and play it online multiplayer
>>69964473
Yup "ink is dry" argument fails here because he wouldnt change shit, because he changed stuff once, but he cant do it anymore? Shit writing!
>>69964298
This is not an analytical review of the quality of the writing, sorry.
>>69964429
So, your issue lies with the rules of the time travel. But is there a hole in its internal consistency? Remember, disliking writing and saying that it is of poor quality are different things.
>>69964518
>KYS Faggot
you post like a 12 year old australian from /b/
>>69964539
So your argument on the topic is "SKY IS BLUE BECAUSE ITS BLUE YOU ARE RETARDS"
>>69964555
He did not change stuff once. Future and past coexist in a dialectical relationship. It is not like there is a future without Hodor. There's just one timeline.
>>69964555
>its an autist cant understand simple time travel loops episode.
>>69964258
this
you people can't be that dumb
I don't believe it
>>69964618
Then how did ned react to bran in the flashback?
It had to have happened at some point.
>people are defending this terrible writing to try to appear to be smart
mad men
all of you
>>69964618
If he caused that timeline then he must have once existed in a timeline where it didn't happen then gone back in time and changed it to the timeline that he's in now. How can the current timeline exist if he wasn't born at the time? He must have gone back and created it by changing it once
Ink is not dry. Raven only says that to try to stop Bran from fucking with the past.
>>69964649
Because it happened but not in the time you think it was. It is "determined" to happen at that time. Same in the books, bran yells at his father praying at the weirwood, he looks back.
>>69964649
Ned heard him. That's it. He always did.
>>69964618
Hodor is Hodor because Bran fucked him up in the past and you take that as causality loop, but problem with that is, if he went back ONCE and stir shit up, why he cant do it again? If i put my cup on the counter and i smash it i can go back in time and put it somewhere else. or put a cushion under it.
What would have happened if the future harry and hermione had ran into the current ones?
If the timeline is "fixed", why were they trying so hard to avoid being seen by them?
It's anime logic, aka the general idea of events are more important than the physical state of the universe
Aka someone getting shot one day or getting hit by the subway a day later is the "same" because she died in both cases and the idea of death was predeterminednot the series of events
Aka, bullshit
>>69964688
Your argument lies on an assumtion of a linear timeline, which is not true given last episode. Past affects future, but is also influenced by future.
>>69964760
the illusion of free will
>it's a select all images of store fronts until they disappear episode
>>69964142
Well for starters, it was fucking suicidal to go north of the wall and keep going
>>69964758
Is that Colin from Canada? Which episode is this?
>>69964686
Their loss, causality loop is dumbest thing to put in the movie, never works always leaves plot holes and fan drama with "what if" who cares just stop opening this threads please!
>>69964760
Because they didn't experience the predestined timeline yet. They had no chance to see each other because they didn't see each other before time traveling.
if "YOU MUST NOT SEE EACH OTHER" thing is really a rule that caused problems before, it may only be because rowling is a brainless hack.
also this >>69964777 trips also confirm
>>69964788
>>69964560
Yes, there's a very obvious hole. Like the only rule they established for Bran's trips to the past was that he can't change the past, then he does that
Why didn't they escape before the zombies arrived?
The cave was no longer safe like he said, and I'm sure the head start they would gave gotten if they started running right away is bigger than the one they get if some big retard blocks a door.
>>69964747
The show so far has shown the scenes to be uncontrollable: Bran does not end in them because he wants to, but because treenet puts him in them. The implication? He doesn't have more than one chance of meddling with the past.
>>69964811
He had to make Bran feel like shit first.
>>69964786
But this question is explored and answered in show S3E9
>>69964811
Bran was not ready and BR had to show him at least the most important thing he can see, to help him infer the rest.
>>69964807
But he didn't change the past. He made past as it was: Hodor became Hodor. Bran has done it before he was born. He never changed it, but rather shut the loop.
This whole Bran thing is going to ruin everything and opens too many possibilities.
The show excels as low fantasy where all the magic and such is nerfed.
>>69963701
Some anons are becoming very self righteous about "understanding" this time travel closed loop concept. An impossible concept. Of course it doesn't make sense. Introducing time travel late in a series is never a good idea. Plebs are just defending the shit writing of their lowest denominator nonsense.
>>69964817
And thats what we call shitty writing, you cant really limit time travel with rules, it doesnt stick, rules are there but people bend them all the time.
>>69964811
So hodor could become hodor and carry bran to the cave in the first place
>>69964857
What was important about his father leaving for the Vale?
>>69964892
Yep, just saying IT ALREADY HAPPENED DUH doesn't explain anything and ignores a ton of holes.
>>69964914
It wasn't. Hodor thing was important, BR saw it was coming and he had to cause Wylas to become Hodor through Bran. He actually showed that the ink is really dry and Bran will be the cause for certain events, not because he is able to change but the "story" is already written and that's how it is supposed to happen.
>>69964811
Wait, does that mean if they left when the night king touched Bran, then Hold door would never have become retarded?
>>69964939
the ink is dry faggot stop worrying about what ifs
Why did they butcher Euron so badly?
>>69964934
>>69964908
So if they didn't stay and nearly get slaughtered by zombies Hodor would stop being retarded? What if Bran panicked and demanded they escape right away?
>>69964939
Yes.
>>69964934
Why? Why Hodor? From this they fucked up some child because "why not LOL"
>>69964988
There is no what if. Bran went back once. There's no evidence that he can return and change things.
>>69964966
At some point Bran affected Ned at the ToJ.
Ergo, Bran has affected the past.
That could not have happened originally as Bran was not yet conceived.
>>69964988
He wouldn't have demanded that because he hodor was always retarded
>>69964988
But it didn't happen. It wasn't going to happen, it's already determined that it wouldn't happen.
>>69964994
It's like asking why GRRM has written ASoIAF that way. Because it is predestined to be that way.
>>69964914
That scene was about Hodor (and him getting affected by Bran/the voice of that girl). The guy was showing Bran that you can't change things in the past because by trying to change things you'll cause whatever is supposed to happen anyway. Just sit back and learn.
>>69965024
>Shitty writing
>>69965019
Except Bran was there due to time travel.
Wait, was Bran warged into hodor when he was holding the door?
>>69965039
If you are always going to say "shitty writing" in the end, why are you asking? Are you Bran?
>>69965051
As he was in the past, he had to convince Hodor to do it himself by fucking up his mind by showing him the future himself.
>>69965039
AGoT was writter with Red Wedding in mind.
How can that be? Jeyne Westerling wasn't even conceived in the books? Seems like a plot hole. Why didn't GRRM save Rob?
>>69964161
lady didn't do shit except die
I don't care about the time travel/time loop shit.
All I want to understand is whether Bran was controlling young hodor or present hodor. And whether present or vision bran was controlling him. It confuses me because young hodor's eyes went white only when present hodor was holding the door.
>>69964429
>>69964560
Are you actually going to debate over whether or not recent seasons have had worse writing?
>20 good men
>bad poosay
>teleporting sand sneks
>teleporting little finger
>tyrion the dragon whisperer
dialogue in general is dumbed down bordering on cringe worthy
stuff like making things more black and white; book varys cuts out the tongues of his little children, show varys gives them candy :^)
fuck if you enjoy the show good for you, i genuinely think it has been going to shit for about the last 2 seasons
>mfw Bran has officially become worst boy
Face it, pedofags, you're boyfu a shit.
YOU'RE NOT THINKING 4TH DIMENSIONALLY MARTY
>>69965086
this might be the worst analogy ever
>>69965082
Im not asking i am just baffled how do you fanboys taking evry shit they throw at you for granted without questioning it?
Because good guy Bran warged into the past to cripple Hodor beacuse he needed some chump to carry him over the wall, okay 10/10
>>69965116
I asked an analytical critique of Bran's story as an example of "dumb writing". I was not given one. I doubt you would analytically articulate how the quality of dialogue has decreased, rather than you falling to your old assumptions such as black and white morality is inherentky worse than grey one. Maybe you would parrot /got/ meme lines and hold that as your case, or merely bring up examples not really even analyze them or their effects on the writing quality.
>>69965276
Pfffff it was just ONE EXAMPLE of him having a role for the things in the past
>>69965294
Are you mad at him because he thinks your favorite show is shit?
So was the whole Hodor thing a massive fuckup?
Big Wyllis was holding the door FINE BY HIMSELF
there was no need to warg into him
Bran just warged into small Wylliss and brain damaged him FOR NO REASON
>>69965392
small wylis was damaged exactly for that purpose: "holding the fucking door"
>>69964939
You don't need to wonder if there is a timeline when Hodor was "normal". Wylis was never "normal". He was always a dimwit because he was kicked in the head or whatever.
There is only one timeline and it is always the same.
Wylis gets kicked by a horse and becomes dull--------->Wylis collapses one day and can only say Hodor, no one knows why----------->Bran is born-------->blah blah blah---------->Bran fucks up Wylis----------->Bran and Meera escape-------->whatever happens next
>>69965392
Because little bitch would let go and zomblings would kill little Hitler!
So did warg Bran intentionally fuck up Wylis?
>>69965462
No. It was Meera's voice that bled through the inception-like layers of Bran's warging.
>>69965462
BR guided him to do so so that the timeline could fold
Seems like a waste to just kill of Bloodraven like that.
I just got done reading the hedge knight and i was hoping for more of him.
>>69965382
No, I am merely tired of the commong habit on 4chan with people making grand claims first and then finding minor evidence the second. People on /biz/ claiming that there is going to be a mrket crash based on two google image seaech supplied charts, /v/ articulating a game's quality by listing > no spears -tier critiques, /tv/ thinking that GoT is shit because of eunuch jokes and Hold the Door. People uneducated in the matters showing off their huge biases and assumptions and then the relatively scarse understanding of why they dislike these things.
Would that it were that people critiqued the consistency, narrative structure or pacing of GoT, I would be happy. But "dumb writing and sjws have ruined GoT"? Fuck that, thats the criticism of the blind.
>>69965527
Inb4 a reveal that BR is behind Summer Hall, Jahaeryses success (Was convinced not to lead armies to war instead of his Hand, survived to end Blackfyre threat and restore Great Families' trust) and Aerys IIs madness.
>>69963757
you're a "faggot"
>>69965294
>or merely bring up examples not really even analyze them or their effects on the writing quality.
well i'm taking the bait good job
>parrot /got/ meme lines
there is a fucking reason "20 good men" is a meme, because of how ABSURD it was that Ramsay could sneak in and out of Stannis's camp undetected and unharmed after having somehow destroyed all their siege weapons and food stores (the latter inexplicably left unguarded even though the men were starving).
Are you really going to make me walk you through the reasons why people think the Sand Cunts / Dorne are an example of bad writing?
If nothing else please explain to me right now why Jaime didn't turn the boat around and confront Doran when Myrcella died? Why wasn't Tyrstane kept under guard as a hostage? Wouldn't you expect Cersie would want him thrown in a dungeon? But no we see him on the ship, where the Sand Snakes also inexplicably show up. Did they change out of their dresses and hop on a boat and catch up to Jaime's ship somewhere between last season and this one? They also manage to sneak in and out of king's landing unharmed .
The night's king couldn't get into the tree until they touched, or marked, Bran. That broke the spell of sorts to be able to pass into the tree.
The night's king has powers even stronger than Bran, they are products of the children of the forest, that's how the king was able to touch bran when they met in the warg mode. This touch managed to bleed through into real life as you see when Bran got the mark on his arm.
This allows Bran to be able to warg into the vision of someone in the past. Fucking up Wylis
So, if BloodRaven somehow already knew what will happen, why didn't Bran knew?
>>69965771
Shit, I could definitely see that happening.
bran not being able to affect the past would sure explain why the night king wants to capture him
literal retards
>>69965594
This might come as a shock but what ever we write here doesnt affect the show, i pirate it anyway so why are you trying to persuade us that show is good? What outcome you hope to achieve with this?
>>69966056
Maybe he is the key to destroy the magic ward at wall? The only reason that winter still hasn't come to westeros is that fucking magic wall. Once it's crossed, westeros gets wrecked.
>>69965435
Did bran realise that?
>>69963701
I'm enjoying this season and I'm going to keep watching it on the HBO GO account I pay monthly for.
>>69966242
looking at his face, probably. That was 3ER's last thing to show Bran most likely.
>>69965116
Retard. Qyburn gives them candy not Varys his methods have always been more mysterious in the show.
>>69963701
Time is an illusion. Everything that has happened and will happen are the same and unchanging.
If we consider there only to be one unchangeable timeline, then the only way time travel can work is if once you time travel, that the past you in the time you travelled to still chooses to time travel when he hits your age. Thus either you failed to change anything, or you instigate the events you're trying to change. For instance if we go by this stupid semi-joke theory, if Bran wanted to prevent the whole war to save everyone and warged into the boar that killed Robert to stop it from happening, then he'd likely not have the survival instincts of a boar and accidentally get in Robert's way and kill him. Either that or something would transpire to make him unable to warg into it or have to stop warging before he killed him. If he wind whispered Ned, perhaps Ned would mishear him and think it was a sign he should go. The point is, he has changed the past, but any future changes he will make have already had their effects play out in the present.
>Bran is going to warg into the past and speak to people to get them to believe in R'hllor all so that eventually they create an army to fight the White Walkers
What is R'hllor a contraction of, I wonder
>>69966358
>retards will still not get this
I felt sorry for you anon, for your efforts.
>>69963920
Shut up retard god you're fucking stupid
whatever happened, happened,motherfucker
>>69966358
You're an idiot
>literally hundreds of anons don't understand even after being explained to
>these are the people you argue with all day
jesus
>>69966358
The only explanation is that Bran didn't time travel and can't affect the past. Everything he's done was coincidence or misleading visions. Otherwise why didn't he just stop the white walkers from existing?
>inb4 he can't change anything because it already happened le ink is dry :^)))))))))))))
>>69964298
>unironically or ironically writing like this
Leave
Time is not a fucking straight line in stories like this you autistic cunts.
There was no original timeline when Ned didn't hear him because Bran wasn't born yet to have gone back to change it. The first time through Ned still heard him because its all a circle, it's all a picture where everything has it's place.
>you don't understand muh time paradox
For some reason whenever i see an anon say this i picture a 14 year old ginger kid with white as fuck skin
>cant change the past.
Tell that to the fatty who held the door..
>>69966280
The birds says that Varys used to give them candy.
Its different in the books tho.
>>69966693
CARMELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>69966609
>>69966532
>>69966358
Are you ok sameanon?
>>69963701
this is why I hate when shows to time travel or anything mildly complex, it brings out idiots for whom its babies first X.its a causality loop, every change he makes he had always made. the ongoing plot already accounts for all the changes he made or will ever make
>>69966748
You're the only babby here matey
>>69963701
read The Book of the New Sun
>>69966745
I'm good, you?
>>69966791
>.png
>saved in mspaint
>literally all it takes to take it yous is to make a box over them
>he made this image thinking it proves something
Is there a solid Bran = R´Hllor Theory out there? Including Bran - Mad King; Bran - Varys; Bran - Jon Targaryen?
>>69963701
HOLD THE DOOR
HOLD TH DOR
HOD TDOR
HODOR
HODOR
HODOR
O
D
O
R
Worst moment in tv history?
It's a timeloop retards you guys soooo dumb lol. Don't you even get it? D&D are geniuses
The episode ripped off 12 monkeys desu
>>69966865
I legit teared up.its not logical but those 2 actors did more with that line than anyone else did with their whole scripts
>>69966832
Oh well, at least I'm not so retarded I can't understand the most simple form of time travel.
>>69963701
>babby's first time travel movie.
You know him going to the past might have already been part of the current timeline...therefore it's a closed loop(s) each time he does it.
He is changing the past as it pertains to a different timeline that the show is not letting us see.
>>69963908
But Bran would'nt even be with Bloodraven greenseeing whispering to him if Aerys wasn't mad. He wouldn't be here either if he didn't have a retard helper to keep up with his bullshit
>>69966912
Well, of course it was a bit emotional, we are basically seing a scared retard mind-controlled into sacrificing himself for two narcissitic kids
PC principal would shit on this scene
>>69966865
HOLD THE HODOR
O
L
D
T
H
E
H
O
D
O
R
>>69966865
>>69966997
DOOR THE DOOR
O
O
R
T
H
E
D
O
O
R
PAUL LATZA
A
U
L
L
A
T
Z
A
>>69966748
So with this in mind >>69966945, you're telling me there is a "deleted" timeline when Bran STILL warged into Wyllis and STILL told him to hold the door? That's bullshit
I'd like to order some fries, a pepsi, and a cheeseburger, hold the ketchup.
>>69966865
Or best tv pottery
>>69967081
There's no fucking deleted timelines, it's all one timeline that's already happened.
what about the very first timeline?
>>69967177
How did he end up in Bloodraven's then? Either
>deleted similar timeline
Which is bullshit, or
Hodor WAS indeed already retarded and affected by Bran warging into him because muh time paradox
But then why would he need to warg into him again?
>>69966894
that show is turning to shit faster than fringe
>>69965294
Jesus Christ that was fucking cringe worthy. You aren't impressing anyone hahahah
>>69967314
like other fag said, watch prisoner of azkaban it all one timeline
>>69967314
>why would he need to warg into him again?
so he would hold the door. it was unintentional, barns control of his powers is shit, he was aiming for hodor outside his vision
>>69965087
But when she died bran immediately woke up. Remember?
>>69967314
See >>69967382, regardless of if you think Harry Potter is pleb trash, it has the most easy to follow use of this mechanic.
>>69963701
>inb4 new mems
>>69967382
>Just watch x
I've read prisoner of azkaban, it didn't make a lick of sense either. Just because some hack did it it doesn't mean it's okay for another one to do the same. The only way time travel can somehow make sense ( it's still impossible, but at least logical) is creating an alternate timeline.
>>69967441
>so he would hold the door
But from the time paradox logic he would already be holding that fucking door, that's been his sole purpose in life since he was warged in a child.
>>69967480
How does it feel to be unable to understand a book written for 10 year olds?
>>69967480
Why? Point to me on a circle, and tell me where that circle begins.
>>69967542
bran did not know that.
>>69967480
fine then go on wikipedia and read all theories about time travel.
>>69967561
I'd probably have no fucking idea, but if you were drawing a circle, you would have to begin somewhere that's for sure.
>>69967576
So he was indeed already affected by the warging when Bran did it again. When was the first time?
>It's an "idiots who's only exposure to time travel was back to the future" episode
>>69967619
But there is no one drawing the circle.
>>69967619
I don't know, why does time have to be this linear progression of events. Why can't it be something else? There's even a theory that the universe itself is a loop, endlessly expanding and contracting.
>>69964043
>>69963997
>>69963908
So is Bran R'hllor?
>Can't change the past
Because it's not like a shitty under prepared mentor would try to hide the fact that you can literally change history from a kid who doesn't yet understand the consequences and has a lot of history he'd like undone. He did the Hodor thing which was a closed loop but he also got Ned's attention which clearly triggered Bloodraven
>>69967801
Not only that but he's behind every prophecy, vision, and divine purpose in planetos.
>>69967561
Now I think I understand. The explanation for this time paradox thing is circular logic. Thanks for your time everyone!
>>69964939
Hodor became retarded for his lifetime precisely because Bran fucked up and was trying to save himself, just to die in the end trying to protect Bran.
>>69967857
I suppose you could say that...
>>69967857
obviously its fucking circular logic, it's a time loop. Jesus christ man. The whole idea is that you cannot order the events finitely. Back to Re.ddit might be a better time-travel movie for you.
>>69967857
Seeing as how time travel is impossible and it's based off of magic in thrones and Harry Potter. I'd say they can say it works however they want
>>69963775
>second Tower of Joy scene
>Bran realized through some dumb twist of the story at the hands of DD that seeing what is at the top of the Tower of Joy will start the bullshit time loop again where everything gets fucked up for another cycle
>Bran is reminded of the promise he made his mother
>"Promise me, Bran, no more climbing"
>Realizes it was some Le Deep Reddit thing to help break the cycle
>doesn't "climb" the tower
>we never find out what's at the top
>some faggot on /r/gameofthrones posts an imgur a day later having to do with the gay parallel between "Promise me, Ned" and "Promise me, Bran"
>+806869 upvotes
>>69964142
Time travel = dumb
it's a stupid lazy plotline done by idiot writers who can't think of anything clever
>>69964164
>>69963701
PLOT TWIST
Ned knew Joffers was gonna kill him. He was told by the Three Eyed Bran to die, to set up the chain of events that lead to King Stark.
>>69965116
>tyrion the dragon whisperer
It might be because Tyrion is probably Targaryen
>>69967956
You can expect this in the final season now since it's clear the writers have been taking cues from internet fan posts since season 5, good job asshole
So is Jorah going to die now or what?
>>69964649
What the fuck is wrong with you?
>>69963701
>Two kids, one a naive paraplegic, the other a bitch, run into the cold snow, leaving behind a dying mentally handicapped man
What's the punchline /tv/?
>>69967956
>Bran wargs into Rhaegar and rapes Lyanna giving birth to Jon.
>>69967958
> my opinion is fact
Terminator used it well
>>69967001
AGOOSTUS SAVE SOME ROOM FOR LATERRR
>>69964688
>must have
Why must he have? Because you have made up some time travel rules?
If I decide that Bran must be able to fly can I start questioning why he needs to be carried around? No, that would be exactly as retarded as you are being.
>>69963701
>Bran can warg into people from the past, and control them in the present
Nice power.
>>69968164
You are so fucking wrong and stupid it's laughable.
I can't believe how many of you are so dumb you can't understand something so simple.
>>69964043
Also why Bran -> Bran the builder -> Wolf sigil
>>69967909
>>69967937
I think I have trouble with it because the one thing you expect in any fiction is basical logic. People are okay with dragons, fireballs and shit, but they can't stand simple things like Dany gaining the approval of dothrakis by burning their sacred home or Ramsay being able to open the cell with the hounds. Likewise, I'm okay with creating an alternate timeline/universe, because even though it would require an absurd amount of power, to me it's still not as bad as an action being both the cause and consequence of itself.
>>69968191
I'm waiting for your paper on the rules of time travel, how space and time interact and what I'll call time projection (you can rename it once you have established its principles).
Then once you have proved all the rules relating to how these things work I'm going to throw that paper in the bin because it does not apply anyway to a work of fiction which can create its own rules that are being clearly laid out.
>>69968192
You're overselling your intelligence while placing far too much stock in the material's integrity.
>5 CIA's stand around Bane in a room with no windows
>Bane is holding a flight plan
>One at a time the CIA's try to nab the prize
>One at a time the CIA's are broken by Bane
>they decide to leave the flight plan
>suddenly one CIA is swapped for new CIA
>he tries to nab the prize but the other 4 CIA's run and tackle him to the ground to save him
>another CIA is swapped and he tries to nab the prize
>the other 4 tackle him
>this continues until all the CIA's are replaced
>none of them know why but they must always stop each other from nabbing the flight plan
>>69968258
People are just being roodypoos about time-travel because it's a hard concept to grasp, harder to execute, by both the writers and the audience.
People didn't really give a shit about the time-travel in terminator 1 (fuck the other movies), and it was the same sort of wacky loop. He sends his father to the past, who fucks his mother, and then he is born. These loops are nothing new.
What the tv-series established though, which I find equally wacky, but at least circumvents most people's complaints, is that only a certain number of points in time remain fixed, i.e. whatever happens between two points doesn't matter, it will always result in the same thing happening at the next point, and the point before. Some call it a lazy way to ignore details, I don't give a shit. If i wanted science, I would go study science, not watch stupid fiction.
>>69964451
That's another retarded use of time travel.
What if they decided not to throw it?
Point is, this characters then have no free will and if that's the case, what's the point of saving their land? It doesn't matter in the end anyway. They do what they're predetermined to do like fucking robots.
>targaryen:BURN THEM ALL BURN THEM ALL
>y-yes sir
>oldmantree: oh shit I fucked up
>shit I need to let my successor fuck up too so I can even it heh
W E W L A D
I wish they would have stayed away from time travel. Its just too complicated to deal with. The ink is dry you say? If the ink is dry and he can't change the past then what's the point of even having time travel in the first place? He can influence it but not change it? That makes no sense, if you can influence something you can change it. Can he go back and change how he influenced something? It's all a big pile of shit when you introduce time travel to a story.
>>69968427
Did Dr Pavel tell them anything?
Closed loop time travel is fun to think about but it makes no sense. Anyone with the ability to time travel will always want to change the past.
>>69963701
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqTLyxwHAts
Look how hard the guy in the middle is trying not to laugh. This was the best scene this season, hands down. Masterful writing, even shakespeare has stopped shaking his spears now.
>>69968370
You just got baited kek, not even that guy.
But your second point contradicts the one I replied to to make you mad so you are dumb hahaha
>>69968535
That's because everyone is focusing too much on the 'mechanics' of 'time travel' rather than seeing it as a device for character development and motivations.
This is probably to be expected from a bunch of autistic virgins.
>>69964429
>why the fuck did bloodraven and bran have that vision in winterfell in the first place?
This so fucking hard.
>The Night King will be here any minute, so you'll need to go through all the most important parts of history in as short a time as possible.
>Here's Hodor 20 years ago carrying a bushel of hay across the Winterfell courtyard.
>>69963757
why are we watching it and keeping a thread constantly bumped to the front page then
>>69968645
but he did change, the present is influenced by bran's actions
>>69968660
What was your second point?
>>69968666
>rather than seeing it as a device for character development and motivations.
You're all wrong and misunderstood what happened. Bran didn't change anything, he can't. Wylis just saw a vision of the future because he has the gift. Bran was just being shown this.
>>69968714
>>69968660
Sorry, what's the contradiction?
>>69968666
Because "the mechanics" completely change the story. They ran out of shit ideas for a shit character and use time travel as a cop out to keep him relevant to the plot. Massive faggots are the only ones that buy into this being a good idea. I mean why the fuck doesn't he just go back in time now and tell himself hey the WW are coming gtfo out of there? They have ruined the plot.
>>69968762
So confuddled with my ruse you can't even think straight lel
>>69964555
Time is a flat circle. A circle has no beginning or end. Stop thinking of a circle as a curved line that ends where it begins and think of it as a whole.
>>69968734
I don't speak frog, sorry.
Do you not understand that these powers Bran and the effects already demonstrated has will influence his character and the decisions he will make and that this, not the time travel itself, is the important thing?
Go back to worrying about some guy inaccurately dual wielding swords you fucking sperg.
>>69968702
You don't understand what I'm saying. The idea of closed loops itself doesn't make sense beyond convenient writing. It makes sense if some clever writer can craft something cool out of it but beyond that it wouldn't work. If you could travel back in time your instinct would be to try and win the lottery or whatever to make your present life better, not knowing how time travel works. You can't argue that there is some innate law of nature that will prevent you from doing this, like a time guardian or something. that's how a terrible writer would get around it.
So you will succeed in handing yourself winning lottery numbers but in your past this never happened. You've created an alternate timeline. That's the only possible way time travel could work.
>>69968859
That's not what Rust meant when he said time is a flat circle
>>69968824
Yeah. I'm going back anyway.
>>69968506
Yes. But it also means that the journey is completely looped. It doesn't matter what the outcome of the journey is, the journey itself matters.
It's EXACTLY the same as the time travel in LOST.
If people in the past can hear Bran then he can change the future. Is there some fucking magic filter that blocks out his voice when he speaks of the future or some shit? Why can't he simply tell Ned to never go to Winterfell, why can he tell all the Starks to stay in the north, why can't he tell himself to not climb that fucking tower? It's fucking dumb shit writing and the worst possible direction they could have gone in.
>>69968989
Because they want the grand ending to write the story rather than the character motivations
>>69968923
>journey itself matters.
Nah, it's like fixed sports. What's the point if it doesn't matter that the white walkers won't win. Ned dying in the first season was what made the show different at the time. It felt like the stakes actually mattered.
The fact that he fucked up Hodor in the past shows he can change the past. Time travel was bullshit thing to add to this shit fest and any one who doesn't see that can suck ass through a straw
>>69968989
because if he did any of those things he would never be in the situation where he would met the 3ER and learn about his abilities to influence things
>Bran cant change the past because closed loop.
But he changed the past by affecting Hodor
>but that already happened
only because he changed the past.
so then How did it already happen?
because bran changed the past.
...but bran can not change the past.
....unless he changed the past because it already happened.
u wot m8
Bran did change the past, the first time. Future Bran warged into young Hodor, causing Hodor to become Hodor.
Future Bran going back in time to ruin Hodor was predetermined
>>69969090
Then why doesn't he just tell himself where to find the tree gook with his time shit power? See adding time travel just opens up a big bag of shit
This reminds me if the matrix when neo killed a squid with his mind. They never bothered to explain that and everyone came up with their own bullshit theories. But all really happened was the writers needed a cliffhanger twist and pulled that out their asses
>>69963701
Questions for (you)
How come Bran could stay in the present while not touching the weirwood roots?
Did Bran mind-control hodor in the past and magically get to hodor in the future?
Was Hodor a warger and warged into himself in the future?
Is Bran now trapped in the past? Did he split into two minds, one in the past and one in the future?
Why the fuck didn't didn't weirwood jedi teach Bran properly, like Yoda would have?
Was the message the weirwood jedi wanted to give, that Bran could affect the future/present through the past, and this is why this was the last vision he showed him? That he could retcon stuff?
>>69963701
If makes sense to me that if time travel were possible you wouldn't be able to go back in time and do something which would then alter the time line to prevent you from going back in time.
The one way to get around this is to posit that he goes back in time and by doing so creates a new universe/timeline, disconnected from his former one.
But yeah, it's impossible and a shitty addition to this show. Seriously, the first few seasons were great when it was just a gritty tale of a "medieval" fantasy world, with more realistic politics etc than we see in most fantasy novels.
However, as the fantasy elements get greater (more magic, more special powers) it just takes away from the rest of the story.
>>69968891
I know it isn't. I was simply borrowing the phrase because it applies here too (perhaps without the word "flat").
Remember how Melisandre have birth to an unkillable demon assassin?
You can hate time traveling but you can't turn around and say demon assassin is fine
>>69963701
Closed loop you dumb nigger.
He can change the past, but the manner in which he has done so is already set in stone, essentially eliminating free will.
>>69969036
Real world is predetermined too. why aren't you mad about that?
>>69969321
Closed loop time travel is dumb
>Jojen knew literally everything that would happen so far
>behaved like someone 40 years his age
>claimed to have vivid dreams of the near future
>said his dreams have never been wrong
>literally every other character gets ambiguous dreams and premonitions
Was this little shit actually warged by someone from the future?
>>69963701
Logic and GOT does not mix... don't try and mix it or you might realize that the books are retarded... so much so they are entertaining.
>all these retards in the thread claiming to understand an inherently paradoxical concept
pseudo-intellectuals gb2 /r/eddit please
>>69969371
Yep, it removes any tension from the story.
>>69969321
Writers: "he can change the past except for when we dont want him too"
>>69969374
Crannogmen's are human-Cotf hybrid. Jojen has weird abilities
>>69969385
"Oh my god a fictional book about dragons and magic completely defies logic, its so bad. Why must a FICTIONAL book defy logic? It's still ENTERTAINING though because it's FICTIONAL and it was totally not made to entertain!"
