>caring about plot
>>69951355
>muh too slow
>muh nothing happens
Plot is the last thing that makes a film good but Only God Forgives was garbage. Sorry Refnfaggot.
>>69951355
Muh One-Eye
OGF was fucking gorgeous to look at but when all of your characters are symbols and their motivations revolve around things only told through symbols, it gets tiresome.the shootout scene then the following chase is one of my favorite scenes from any move
best cinema of 2013
the symbolism and themes in the plot were incredibly complex.
Most people jsut need dialogue to actually know what the fuck is going on.
it looked good but without any substance i had no desire to watch when it should have been a 32 image slideshow on community huffpost article on cinematography
>>69951355
>using the word "boring" when talking about movies
Most reddit you can do tbqh
>>69951355
I don't get the HATE. It was fine.
Great looking film, some entertaining dialogue and scenes. Wasn't anything spectacular, but 2-2.5 stars at worst I thought.
>>69951469
I waited to long to watch this and UTS because
>MUH NOTHING HAPPENS
Now I know that means I need to watch a movie
>>69951449
not having the stomach for art house like films doesn't make the movie bad just not to your taste
>>69951355
Film is art. Therefore, one can only rate it subjectively, on a personal level. There is nothing on a technical or theoretical level, which makes a movie "good" or "bad" to an individual. You can only watch it and ask yourself, "Did I like it? Did it speak to me on a personal level?"
That being said, there is something missing in this film for me. It seemed like a play that is stuck in the first act. It just felt empty and unsatisfying. And it had nothing to do with plot or "it's boring" or "nothing happens."
Pure kino, famalam
>>69951355
I'm normally a person with a short attention span, but I enjoyed this movie.
Why did the plebs hate it?
>>69951535
but what I'm saying is that its a crime that art house almost always HAS to have these incredibly slow moving plots and a lack of dialogue.
Can something not be meditative and atmospheric but also contain dialogue and move a plot along/develop characters at a reasonable speed? Why does it have to be one or the other. I mean memes aside, I think Drive acheived this. It had a fantastic balance of symbols, character development, atmosphere and meditation, and action. I think Drive proves it doesn't have to be one or the other.
It wasnt bad, but it was bad compared to what I had come to expect from Winding-Refn
>>69951580
The film requires rewatching and/or thought/discussion to appreciate.
You are retarded if you actually think there are no objective level on which art can be discussed and understood. Clearly you never think about the creative process and jsut watch things for "entertainment"
>>69951469
>the symbolism and themes in the plot were incredibly complex
huh? Not really dude. All of the symbols were very obvious. In fact, gosling putting his hand into his mother was a straight up last minute decision by him.
Hands represent guilt
Kareoke represents enacted justice
its really subtle. The film practically shoves a symbol in your face after something happens so you immedietly make the connection. It doesn't let symbols boil or make any attempt to subvert them.
Oh julean is showing remorse and guilt? Show his hands covered in blood
Chang just enacted justice? Show him singing karaoke every time.
>>69951668
The 'plot' and characters develop with every scene. Calling it slow at all mainly just shows a misunderstanding of the symbols being represented through the shots (lighting/editing/framing) etc.
More dialogue would have totally detracted from the almost metaphysical/existential struggles being presented
>>69951721
>you are retarded if you actually think there are no objective level on which art can be discussed and understood.
not him but you're retarded if you think anything about art is objective at all.
Both jackson pollock drunk splatters and the painting in the Sistine chapel are both "art".
nothing objective about the shit. Even the most basic elements like shape and form are subjective. Appealing form to some people is a chiseled marble human form, and to others, a cube for its simplicity.
>>69951754
*its really NOT subtle*
>>69951754
Wasn't saying they weren't clearly represented. But the issues of justice and moral responsibility. Etiology and family. Empathy and psychopathy.... point is there was a lot going on.
It's easy to be reductive of the symbols if you understood a part of some of them
>>69951721
Yes, there are objective things that can be discussed, but ultimately, whether you like it or not is a subjective decision on a personal level. If you don't agree with this, you are literally one of those people who get rustled because someone doesn't like what you like.
And I have watched it 3 times, faggot. It just isn't that good to me.
>>69951854
Jesus Christ dude you're gonna need to take a class in semantics or phenomenology. Jackson Pollock and other bullshit examples may prove that art is subjective but don't prove the contrapositive
>>69951469do you think the cop spared goose's hands?
my vote is yes
>>69951813
the plot does move, albeit very slowly
however no characters besides Julian develops and even his "development" is questionable. From the beginning he feels guilty. The only thing that is close to development is him seeking chang for redemption, but nothing tells us he didn't already want redemption from the beginning. Please stop with the "you didn't understand it" shit. The movies themes and symbols are surface fucking level. The characters function as symbols that meet their respective conclusions as apposed to people who change heart or regress.
Chang is unstoppable and kills in overly gruesome ways (and the movie attempts to ham fistidly say "oh he's a family man, he feels bad about it sometimes, after shoving chopsticks into a mans legs)
Julians Mother is a cold bitch who lacks sympathy or empathy for anything and had a forced incestuous relationship
Mai gets no development
Julian is sad about killing his father and feels additional guilt from his mother about his brother dying and goes out to redeem himself in some way.
surface
level
the ONLY thing they subverted half decent was weaving in the implication Julian killed his father with his bare hands.
discovering things about a character does not equal development by the way
>>69951999
I'm not saying you should have enjoyed it.
Obviously whether you like something or not is a subjective decision. That's called a self evident truth.....
You making a value judgement that this film is not good is totally different from saying you didn't like it but appreciated that it was a well made movie. Don't know why you fucking watch it three times if you didnt appreciate it. Maybe if you had liked it or tried a little harder to understand it you would learned to appreciate it and liked it more. But yea any asshole can like or hate anything.
>>69951932
Please enlighten me as to a part you think I did not understand
I can almost guarantee anything you state the film expresses about
justice
morals
family
or psychopathy
is incredibly clear and easy to understand and there is in fact, not alot going on with them as you claim
oh chang kills a bunch but he has a family and feels bad about it a little, justice is gray
woaaah crazy theme there, no one has ever expressed justice isn't black and white. Untouched territory there.
All of the other things you stated are just as surface level as that
>>69952038
That's the whole point of the establishing scene of the killer losing his hand. The is the ultimate judge and in the end goose learns his lesson from thi angel of death and is relinquished from the ball and chain that is the devotion to his family
>>69952052
Julian is supposed to be the only character that develops. Every other character is archetypal.
Some have suggested that the whole thing is all an illusion of goslings mind. Backed up by the vision he does have. But this is just taking the extreme symbolism too far.
I totally disagree that gosling isn't developed thoroughly
>>69951384
>yfw BvS gets the same criticism from plebs as OGF
>>69952038
they originally planned a post credits scene where mai was feeding jello to an armless gosling. He got em chopped bruh
>jullian = sin
>mom = devil
>chang = god
>jullian goes to his mother in an attempt to be forgiven of the sin of killing his father with his bare hands (shoving hands into her womb)
>still feels guilt
>chang cuts off his hands (thus the title)
>>69952111
It is not good to me. That doesn't mean I thought it was bad. I was on the fence about it, so I re-watched it a few times. In those re-watchings, my opinion didn't change.
And don't pull the high-and-mighty "if you understood it, you might have liked it." That is the biggest cop-out to people who can't stand when others don't agree with them. I watched it numerous times. Nothing went over my head. I just didn't like the movie that much. Deal with it.
>>69952252
Please explain how he develops as a character
>>69952155
>justice is gray
sorry buddy but I don't need to know what else you thought the film was trying to say to see that we disagree.
Anything I presented you would either shoot down and/or reduce to simplicity in the same way you already have. Even if it was just
>justice morals family or psycopathy
I would say that those are complex issues regardless of how easy they are to understand or are presented. I'm still not sure whether you think the film was too straightforward or too vapid
>>69952362
>mom=devil
fucking dropped
cliche as fuck to assume if a movie features god one character must be the devil.
>>69951668
>a pleb complains about never having watched any Michael Mann films
wew
>>69952363
I'm just sitting here brooding that someone else on the internet didn't like this movie. I never even said I liked it buddy. How am i supposed to know what reasons you have unless we discuss the film itself. But thanks for setting me straight on this whole "art". I guess the point of this board is to just post whether you like things or not and cool fun picture along with that
>>69952431
its pretty fucking blatant
the mom is an evil cunt
>>69952395
that alright i'm good. you could probably google it though and find some other people's thoughts
>>69952425
I thought it was pretentious in the sense that it meditates on surface level concepts for overly long amounts of time and assuming depth greater than what is presented.
However, maybe you're right and that I didn't understand it, and thats why I want you to present how you see the concepts you stated in the movie. I promise I'll view them with an open mind. if you can show me, at least to you, that there is an element of depth and complexity to the concepts you stated, I'll concede that the film is not pretentious and that I just didn't understand it.
Also justice being gray is absolutely a theme. They clearly present this by having chang show remorse/visit his family (which is full of bright and innocent colors) after torturing that one guy.
>>69952552
yea i agree with you but i wouldn't say she is the devil or that goose is sin really. way too biblical of an interpretation
>>69952177
>The is the ultimate judge and in the end goose learns his lesson from thi angel of death and is relinquished from the ball and chain that is the devotion to his family
I'm not following, he was relinquished from that ball and chain once his mother died. maybe his hands represent what he's done/his past actions and with those removed he can live with a clear conscious?
>>69952585
Okay, if you're not interested thats fine, but I'll leave you with the fact that Julian does not develop because his character is shown to have no change over the course of the movie. The only slight development he has is that he realizes redemption comes from having the sinful part of his body removed (his hands) rather than fighting god. Nothing else about him changes and even still, this "change" could just be him submitting to a superior being, barely a change if you ask me.
>>69951631
gosling tried to copy refn and failed. doctor who was a fucking cringefest
>>69951754
>Hands represent guilt
>Kareoke represents enacted justice
wewlad
>>69952052
they weren't trying to make Chang sympathetic as a family mind. he's represents god. he is kind to those who are good, smites sinners, and forgives those who truly repentant. it's not complex.
>>69952602
honestly totally agree its pretentious. I really didn't enjoy it that much the first time i watched it and i still haven't rewatched it.
There are plenty of subjective and objective reasons i could say why i liked it. I thought gosling was an interesting character. It's in many ways about his self-redemption. THe formative struggle of a psycopath and his fucked up family. billy was psychotic and his mother was abusive and borderline. gosling tries to escape the labels of his life but ends up drowning in the ironic depravity of hum fulfilinf and exceeding expectations. The ultimate focus is always on gosling and showing the other characters mainly serves to further his development. Where he came from and the world he lives in make it much more than just some sort of revenge flick but an analysis of the psychological and emotional motivators and a disussion of nature and nurture battle of their emergence. The way his development builds to the silat fighting scene and the decrescendo after had a lot of merit. "a punishing iew of one mans private purgatory"
I felt that the panning and cinematography in general were very interesting and emotional. Keeping you on edge and removed. The effect of the lighting was palpable and added a lot of drama to the silent struggles that were going on. Dialogue would detract from the intense emotions being conveyed so the visuals had to be stunning and blunt. Even body language and the slow build of violence is like the foreplay of sex. I would say change is mainly a dogmatic angel of death but the connection to his family doesn't show that justice is gray but more that he is human and simply serves a very absolute purpose. His karoake in front of the rest of the police force and the songs hie sings about not forgetting happen every time he doles out this angelic jsutice.
I think it got a lot of bad reviews cause some of the metaphors were a bit to abrasive maybe like the returning to the womb scene.
>>69953226
Im sure i could say more but id need to actually formulate and structure things really. Only reason i didn't babble on was because of character limit
>>69952585
i guess see above
>>69951686
There's only one bed in their house. Do they sleep together?
What did the gif's creator mean by this?
>>69952721
heart to heart you seem like a true bro
Symbolism is the worst possible tool you can use to create an art with.Even if you use it to express something,the meaning behind that particular symbolism should not be the obvious and should vary from person to person,otherwise it's prententious
>Artistic-Things that you see or hear should mean something
>pretentious-Things that you see or hear mean only one thing
The movie had some great cinematography tho,and great soundtrack.But it lacked substance.
how is symbolism not interpretable. also you may need to look up the word pretentious in the dictionary. your post is kind of a mess. Especially the art vs. pretention thing.
>>69953753
>But it lacked substance.
care to argue that? or let's just accept it because you say so? please fuck off back to red.dit, or at least the GoT/capeshit threads.
>>69951469
>symbolism
symbolism is craved by the pleb because the pleb is impotent. symbolism = pleb filter
>>69954367
thanks for clearing it up. no need to visit a doctor anymore
This nonsense is so inorganic to any sense of globetrotter restlessness or anything explicitly or metaphorically to do with British or American colonialism that it just feels derivative. That Kubrickian scene in Drive of dead-eyed strippers watching an assault gets extended here in a more elaborate whorehouse sequence where catatonic hookers bear mute witness to instances of police corruption. Refn’s tableau of organdy-gowned call-girls listening to pop while watching violence in a bouquet-bedecked whorehouse is the ultimate David Lynch parody.
Gosling and Refn have art ambitions–a strange sense of fun. But how can film culture progress with fantasies like this? There’s no shock or outrage left. Refn relies upon a level of menace (unerotic, non-provocative) that precludes caring about or responding to violence, vulnerability, mortality. This is cinema for unsophisticated viewers who don’t already know Bunuel’s eye-slashing, Altman’s Coke bottle assault or Shakespeare/Julie Taymor’s Titus. Children of Kubrick, Friedkin, Lynch and Tarantino, they remain infantile about movies.
>>69951355
>people got so blown the fuck out by this movie thinking it was going to be another Drive
fucking plebs
>>69954216
>paper thin plot
>you barely care about the characters
I have no problem with slow pacing and minimal action scenes-but I never felt anything about the characters,nothing glued the movie together in other to feel something about those silent sequences.
>>69954644
there are adjectives in this pasta!
>>69954216
>needing plot
>needing TO FUCKING CARE ABOUT THE CHARACTERS
Stick to Marvel flicks kid
>>69955195
meant for
>>69954712
>>69951355
the plot is actually a straight forward crime thriller, but the character development and telling of the story is incredibly fractured (on purpose).
>>69951469
>symbolism about mommy issues
>complex
let me guess, the scene where he's trying to reach throug a girl's lap through a curtain represents him trying to go back to the womb and it gets done literally in the scene where he touches his mom's uterus.
>>69956784
so refn should have made his symbols intentionally more esoteric? there is more to the movie than gosling doing some weird shit with his mom's dead body.
