Can we discuss how much of a miracle it is that Survivor has managed to produce its worst winner ever in its 32nd season?
Deep down, everyone knows who the true winner is: Mark the Chicken
There has been worse. Aubrey deserved to win but even knowing that I found myself rooting for Michele at the end. She just pissed me off the least I guess.
Do athletic males ever make it the finals?
>>69718274
I might have rooted for Michelle if she hadn't been such a non-entity for the first ten episodes (fuck edgic, she didn't mean anything as a character until the Julia boot). I don't blame her or the jury, I blame the editors for not making me give a fuck.
As for worse... who? Bob and Fabio are obvious answers I guess but both of their Final Threes were basically coin tosses.
My bottom winners are Jenna, Amber and Vecepia, but Michelle takes the cake because she's probably the only person who should have lost and didn't, at least based on what we saw on TV.
>>69718327
Fairly often. Just running down the list: Colby (S2), Ethan (S3), Brian (S5), Matt (S6), Boston Rob (S8), Tom (S10), Aras (S12), Yul, Ozzy (S13), JT (S18), Mick (S19), Fabio, Chase, Sash (S21), Boston Rob (S22), Albert (S23), Tyson (S26), Woo (S27), Mike (S30) and Jeremy (S31). Of those Ethan, Brian, Tom, Aras, Yul, Fabio, Rob, Tyson, Mike and Jeremy won.
>>69718184
>the true winner is: Mark the Chicken
this
It's interesting how Survivor went from an incredibly obvious and telegraphed winner in 31 to a season where no one seemed like they deserved to win.
>>69718121
Michelle played a solid social game, won immunity's, had a great final tribal and deserved to win.
Is she the best winner ever no, but she is not even close to the worst.
>>69719121
She's the worst because she was the shittiest character of all 32 winners and beat the best player of the season.
>>69718121
>worse then bob
big brother 18 /tv/ get fucking ready
Since Debbie left I was rooting against Aubrey who felt like she was scrambling at all times and never really decided anything, I was hoping for Cydney and Michelle at the end even though I completely disregarded Michelle throughout most of it.
She obviously was basically nobody for the first half but played better than the other two towards the end and that stuck.
>>69718327
They've usually got a pretty good chance and win pretty often as >>69718500 said.
>>69719224
feed memes soon.
>>69719164
Bob is not a great winner but he was a fun character with his fake idols and random challenge streak and his weirdo pelvic thrust. It's not like he won at the detriment of some great player. He was up against Susie and Sugar, the FTC was basically a grab bag and of the trio the fan favorite ended up winning. In a season like Gabon thats pretty much the best outcome you could ask for.
Michelle was no Bob Crowley. She was in the shitty Jenna Morasca mold, except she managed to beat someone who by all accounts was far and away the favorite to win the season once the post-merge got going.
>>69719391
>>69719155
are you implying that Aubrey and Tai were "great" players
>>69719469
Aubry was a great player, Tai was a terrible player.
I wouldn't be so salty about Michelle if the finale had progressed without gimmick shit and had Michelle vote out Aubry, take Tai to the finals and win. She would still suck but she wouldn't be godawful.
>>69718121
Tai should've won because he was the nicest and most likable out of the final three and also because he's gay and a minority. I can't believe he got no votes. There needs to be more ethnic and LGBT winners.
>>69718184Executive Producer Vince Gilligan
>>69719224
>>69719291
It's gonna be hard topping the magnum opus.
FUCKING BULLSHIT
>>69719391
The way I see it
Strategy
Michelle > Bob
Social game
Michelle > Bob
Maybe Bob wins the physical aspect, but not much. If Michelle loses F4 immunity she is gone.
Your personal like for Bob and dislike for Michelle is clouding your judgment.
Michelle 100% played a much better game then Bob in almost every aspect. It's actually not even close.
She's not a good winner but certainly better then Bob by a decent margin.
>>69719543
She tried to vote out Aubrey and told Tai he was dumb for not going along with the plan.
Michelle sticking with Cyd probably won her the game because Cyd had her back and voted with her in the end even though she was closer to Aubrey throughout the game.
If your "great" player Aubrey would have got rid of Michelle when she had the chance instead of voting out Jason who everyone hated she may have won.
Have you seen Cydney's Ponderosa? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7GLTkZy2P8
Jason, Scott and Julia are bitter as fuck. That's the only reason Michele won, she did literally nothing but make friends and skirt the middle.
You guys are delusional if you actually think Michelle is a bad winner.
She played a better all around game then passed winners like Fabio and Crowley. She had a better handling in taking herself to FTC than Vecepia and Amber. I would compare her game most similar to Jenna and Sander, being absolutely better than Jenna (who wanted to quit half way through the game) but definitely not as driven as Sandra (who while always staying relatively behind the scenes compared to louder characters always used her personality to influence others when necessary). Nevertheless, the comparison still stands. Some people seem to always forget part of being the winner is getting the jury to like you more than the other finalists. There's a reason Aubry was gunning for Michelle since Top 5. Michelle had the jury votes and she accomplished what she needed to do (winning immunity) to get herself to the end. Some people may argue Joe's medavac saved her from one night but so did Neal's medavac to Aubry.
End point being, winning isn't about just always being the top ring leader of the majority vote, it's being able to hold a consistent role in the majority while also keeping a likeable bond to the jury members. Michelle did that better than Aubry, and undoubtedly better than Tai.
>>69720399
Name one move Michelle made?
>>69720137
>Michelle 100% played a much better game then Bob in almost every aspect. It's actually not even close.
You're right, but you're assuming I'm judging winners solely on how well they played. I'm not. All I care about is the narrative of the season, and a story that ends with Michelle beating Aubry isn't a very good one.
>>69720140
>She tried to vote out Aubrey and told Tai he was dumb for not going along with the plan.
I'm talking about a Final Two, with Michelle winning the final immunity challenge. If it's a face-off between Michelle and Tai then Michelle becomes a much better winner because then the narrative of the season is how Tai starts the game as the ultimate social threat and ends the game as a pretty ideal goat.
>If your "great" player Aubrey would have got rid of Michelle when she had the chance instead of voting out Jason who everyone hated she may have won.
Great players can make mistakes. Also, Aubry was seriously fucked by Joe's medevac. If Joe hadn't been evacuated theres a good chance Michelle would have been gone at five, with Aubry sitting next to Tai and Joe in the finals. I would actually liken Aubry's scenario to Jonny Fairplay, who lost Pearl Islands because Burton took him on reward and left Lill unsupervised back at camp with Sandra and Darrah.
>>69720450
Voting out her closest ally, to prove she was with them
>>69720501
>a move she didn't come up with and was dragged kicking, screaming and crying into doing is her best one
That's not even a fucking move. She was just numbers.
>>69720450
She befriended Nick. He got voted off. She was aligned with Julia and voted with Scot and Jason. They both got voted off. She had to vote off Julia. Julia was out. She befriended Cydney. She got voted out. She managed to somehow get herself to the end and hold better friendships with all those Jury members than Aunry. That's the move she played. Outwit is a large concept, it can be taught as making big bold strategic moves and using that to get yourself to the end, but at the FTC the biggest outwitting move is to be the one most likeable person in the final 2/3.
I could bring up Natalie White or Amber as examples of this but their gameplay was mostly due to them being actually kind people. Instead, I like to bring up Brian Heidik and Earl Cole. Guys who made a bunch of enemies during their respective seasons. The complete opposites of what Natalie or Amber were. Yet, they won mostly due to the part they were sitting alongside others who were even more disliked than themselves. The Jury is the most important part of the game. Much more than winning challenges or even being the diplomat in the island. We've just been spoiled by the last few seasons that the winners have been the most likable and a diplomat and/or challenge beast.
>>69720493
You shouldn't rank winners on their narrative and appeal. This means you are ranking them using a system that is strongly based upon personal views.
How "good" and "bad" winners are should be based on how good their social , strategic and physical gameplay was. That way there isn't much room for personal bias.
>>69720399
I think the question is agency. Michelle definitely earn the votes of Julia, Nick and Cydney as she was friends with them. But Jason and Scot appear to have only voted for her because she had the least (no) involvement in their demise. If Aubry was sitting next to Cydney she would have gotten those votes for the same reason.
This doesn't discredit her game at all, because Sandra beat Parvati on the exact same principles. But Michelle basically won because she was kept out of the loop and that isn't really something she chose to do.
It's just not a fun way for a season to end, especially when the person she's sitting next to isn't a Boston Rob or Russell-type jackass but just someone who held the upper hand and was punished for it.
It is pretty damn funny to see analysts like Cesternino and Fishbach react with bewilderment to the idea of someone winning just because they're better liked than someone with a kickass "resume" (I hate that word more than any other in Survivor parlance) of #BigMoves. Welcome to Season fucking 5 guys. First rule of Survivor: The only player you have to beat is the asshole sitting next to you, as demonstrated when a soulless psychopath forced the people he betrayed to choose between himself and a sexist, racist, lazy, misanthropic jackass.
>>69718121
Daaamn this show has been on for 32 years?
>makes you think
>>69720777
>32 years
>>69720723
>she jumped from one alliance to the other, always being on the bottom and making absolutely no decisions herself
FTFY
Why can't people just admit she was a shit winner that literally only won because Jason and Scott were bitter?
>>69720882
She was a shit winner but saying she is the worst of all time is beyond laughable
>>69720724
>Your opinion should be based on facts
>That way your opinion has no personal bias
You realize that's retarded, right?
Winner rankings are opinions. Opinions are subjective. My opinions can be based on whatever the hell I want.
Saying I should only rank winners based on quantifiable attributes implies that there is a definitive correct winner ranking. And if that's the case why the hell would I even bother to rank winners?
Not to mention, you're only talking about a single approach to a TV show, the perspective of the game, when the narrative perspective is equally valid and worthy of discussion. A murder mystery with a crappy killer at the end is a crappy murder mystery, even if the logistics of the story makes sense and the killer was clever.
>>69720882
When you put it that way she sounds like a successful Candice Woodcock. Which is just hilarious.
>>69720919
With that I can agree.
Nowhere near the worst, but shit nonetheless.
>>69720762
Exactly. I completely agree with you on every point you made.
>>69720882
Where do we draw the line between shit winner and mediocre winner? Is it something like ...Vecepia - Michelle - Jenna...?
>>69720940
Legitimate winner rankings are opinions based upon factual information in regards to what is agreed upon by most as "good gameplay"
If you base your opinions on "narritive" instead of "gameplay" then that's fine, all the power to you. However, in my opinion, that is a over-biased and incorrect way to do it.
Is Fabio in your top 10? lol
>>69720777
this nigga srs?
What do you guys think of Gen X vs Millennials?
If you could come up with a gimmick for a season what would it be?
I would like to see them do a season in the cold.
>>69720919
The asian guy didn't win because the white guys hated him. They were still butt hurt for getting kicked out
Girls were going to vote for the girl they were less catty with
The winner wasn't good but in hindsight you could see it coming
dont be mad at michelle for winning
be mad at the bitter jury
>>69721126
Terrible name. Not the worst idea ever but not good either.
Themes don't really matter that much(unless they effect the game IE BvW) since they mostly get ignored later on in the game. It's all about the cast.
Fortunately the cast, from what I have seen, has potential. Probst being pumped about the season is a arguably good sign as well.
>>69720777
They have like 8 seasons per year. That show doesn't stop taping.
I only remember the first one with Rudy and Gay Bob teaming up
>>69721061
>goes 22 days without seeing tribal
>none of that was any effort on her end
>bitter beauty and brawn douches leading a popularity contest in ponderosa
>utter incompetence at appearing likable at any point
>"good gameplay"
>>69721126
>What do you guys think of Gen X vs Millennials?
Stupid as fuck, there's really only a few years difference in their ages.
>If you could come up with a gimmick for a season what would it be?
At this point I'll take anything not set on a pacific island.
Tai is one of the dumbest niggers in the history of the game. If he stayed loyal he would have beat Scott and Jason hands down.
>>69721061
>Legitimate winner rankings
Lol get the fuck out with this pretentious nonsense. Winner rankings only started as a way to shit on Jenna, don't try to blow it up into something important enough for there to be a correct way.
And Fabio is not in my Top 10. I don't even have an winner ranking, I just know which winners I like and which ones I don't. But I can tell you Michelle would bump Vecepia up from the bottom slot, and that if I did rank them Bob would be above Parvati and Yul lol.
Tom Westman would be at the top though, because Tom is the man in all aspects. Chris. Sandra, Brian and Hatch would not be far behind him.
>>69721126
>yfw the millennials are a bunch of e celebs
>>69721192
I never ever said Michelle was a good player. She wasn't.
She was however better then Bob. Who was one of the worst winner's of all time. That's all I have been arguing this entire time.
almost 15 years later and theirs still isnt a better winner than pic related
>>69721237
>Bob above Parv and Yul
Ya I regret wasting my time
>>69721126
The theme sounds like they were desperate for a theme and eventually came up with this one two days before shooting started.
It seems like a half-baked version of the Nicaragua gimmick, except instead of there being a physical disparity between the tribes it's going to be a lot of generational smack talk to pump up the theme.
>If you could come up with a gimmick for a season what would it be?
I don't think a season needs a gimmick, because the gimmick gets wiped away just a few episodes in anyway (but the stupid season name lives on forever).
I'd really like to see them do a season set in Spain, Greece or Sicily. Survivor: The Mediterranean Sea or some shit.
>>69721200
>At this point I'll take anything not set on a pacific island.
im surprised they havent done india, but then again they stopped integrating the countries culture into the game a long ass time ago
>>69720940
Fabio, Vecepia, Aras were the narrative kings of their seasons. Much more than most winners. How much does narrative influence your ranking, where would you put them?
>>69721126
Hate it. It's Nicaragua 2 but with an even more stupid theme. I agree with Rob C and Fischbach that the first few episodes will just be constant none sense bickering about each of the teams and the stereotypes like the promo showed.
>What ideas would you have?
Honestly I feel like BvBvB is the only one I ever enjoyed. HvV is nice but it's going to be hard to cast a second of those.
At this point all I plead is for any of the following people to come back:
Heidik
Yul
Spradlin
Chris
Fuck everyone else.
>>69721277
>anon's best winner is literally who
>not picking "Gay Bob"
>>69721277
In terms of one-time players he's second only to Kim. He was way ahead of his time. That thing where you make a Final 2/3 deal with everybody in your tight five-person alliance? He did it first, innovating the first counter-defense for the alliance flip seen in Marquesas. Also the first winner to be a real physical threat as well as a strategic and social threat.
Plus he tried to use racism to form a bond with an NY cop. Thats pretty awesome.
>>69721357
heroes vs villain would have been 10x better had heidik and hatch been included
>>69718592
Aubry i felt deserved it
>I don't get carried bro, I'm, like, a strong independant womyn, like, whatever.
She's fucking horrible.
>>69721277
THIS
CBS all I'm asking is for you to look past the shit he's done and bring back Heidik, the greatest player of all time needs to show some scrubs how it's done.
>>69721357
>At this point all I plead is for any of the following people to come back:
I would love to see Elizabeth Hasselback come back, she was great in her season and now that she is famous I think it would be cool, she was probably my favorite player.
In the end, I blame the fault on the editing. If Michele played a very smart and social game, why is it that hardly anyone even noticed? Why is it that people need to point out moments that might come off that way, as opposed to stating she played it socially and everyone agreeing. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't we'll never really know. And based on the questions asked, I doubt she really played it socially on purpose, she just lucked out. She had no plan, she slipped through the cracks like many players do but got lucky along the way, lucky enough to win apparently
>>69721357
Ambivalent on Fabio, Vecepia was the worst until Michelle came along (a shitty winner for a shitty season) and I like Aras but everytime I watch Panama I hop aboard the Terry Train and my interest in the season dies when that train goes off the rails.
>>69721406
HvV is great but the men chosen for the Villains tribe are a joke. Rob deserved his spot, but the lack of Hatch, Heidik and Fairplay pisses me off. And ideally I would have had Lex and Shane on there as well, plus Ami instead of worthless Danielle, but that might be getting greedy.
Overall I was most annoyed that six of the twenty players came from the three most recent seasons. That's a pretty heavy recency bias that left a lot of great names off the season and it's the big issue I have with HvV.
>>69721383
>literally the only person who knew what he was doing while the other 19 thought they were on vacation
>>69718121
Sandra over Russell and Parvati was a fucking crime OP.
>>69720381
would cydney have won if they voted out aubrey?
>>69721406
Imagine if this would've been the cast.
Heroes:
Chris
Tom
Cirie
JT
Colby
Jenna
Danni
Yul
Yao-Man
Todd
Villains:
Heidik
Hatch
Boston Rob
Shane
Rob C
Parvati
Sandra
Russel
Lex
Coach
>>69721541
>Probst reads the votes after the season
>O FUCK Michelle won? How? Fuck
>Try their best to edit her well but she literally just didn't do much of anything the entire season so it's impossible
That's what happened.
>>69721659
>Trotting iut the rotting corpse of Colby again
>>69721659
>heidik, hatch, rob c, and russell on the same tribe
>>69721655
No Jason and Scott would have never voted for her or Tai, Michelle may have won unanimous
>>69721544
Woops. Forgot to include Fairplay >>69721659 probably would replace Coach.
>>69721694
Colby before HvV was a legend though.
you now remember big tom
>>69721783
fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
>>69721728
I just orgasm on that mental image of Richard Hatch, Brian Heidik, Lex, Rob Cesternino, Boston Rob and Russell all on the same tribe being stern dictators while Fairplay and Shane do their asshole acts alongside them.
>>69721818
Fairplay played the same game as Cesternino(and did it better)
It wasn't just an asshole act.
>>69721659
>Shane and Coach on the same tribe
Fucking yes.
>>69721655
Not a chance with Jason, Scott and Julia on the jury. That's three auto-locks for Michelle, she literally only needed to sway one other person.
So do we know who the other vote for Audrey was from?
>>69721659
Too bad it would never happen, since they always keep genders equal when possible.
This is how I think the tribes should have been built, keeping in mind Hatch was legally barred from playing:
Heroes:
>Colby
>Rupert
>James
>Tom
>JT
>Kathy <- One of the biggest snubs of the season
>Eliza <- I dunno about Eliza, but it's harder to think of female heroes on the show and she's good bikini fodder
>Steph
>Cirie
>Amanda
Villains:
>Boston Rob
>Brian
>Jonny Fairplay <- THE biggest snub of the season
>Shane
>Russell <- I hate this because it's total bullshit that nobody knew who he was going into the season. Ideally I'd sub Russell for Coach
>Jerri
>Sandra
>Ami <- Arguably the second true female villain in the whole series
>Parvati
>Courtney
>>69722076
Debbie
>>69722092
>Debbie
Why the fuck did Cydney vote for Michelle?
What was the point of the jury twist ? Has a contestant ever won by only one vote ?
>>69722128
Because Michelle voted with her at final 4 and Aubrey and Tai voted against her.
People get mad at those who vote them out
>>69722128
Cydney and Michelle were tight the entire time.
Michelle had tight relationships with Julia and Cydney, and Nick was presumably fond of her. Her votes from Jason and Scot her sour grapes, if they had walked the walk they had talked (respecting the game and all that) they would have voted for Aubry).
>>69722163
There have been 30 plus seasons and they like to introduce new twists. Season one was by one vote I believe
>>69722171
>Aubrey and Tai voted against her.
But she voted against Aubrey.....how the fuck can she possibly hold that against her?
>>69722192
Edit made it seem like she was even tighter with Aubrey though.
>>69722163
I don't think the point was to remove a jury vote, because in that regard it's pointless. Removing just one vote doesn't make a difference, unless the jury was going to vote 4-4 (which is unlikely, because in 31 seasons there had never been a tie vote). If it was a 4-3-1 vote then all it would do it make a tie, which means nothing.
The point was to do what Michelle did, which is to get rid of a juror who could sway other jurors. Neal might have been able to make a Snakes and Rats speech in Aubry's favor, which could have changed the outcome.
>>69722253
I dunno, there was a lot of emphasis in the "Previously on" about Cydney and Michelle never betraying each other.
>>69722163
Seasons 1 2 4 5 8 13 17 and 21 were all by one vote.
What would happen according to the rules if final tribal was a tie?
>>69722362
Mark Burnett has said it would be a revote.
A common belief is that in a revote the player with the fewest votes (a tie can only happen in a Final 3, unless they fuck up the jury of a Final 2) will cast a vote as well.
CBS just needs to die entirely.
I want aubrey to sit on my face.
>>69723388
>not Liz or Anna
>>69721659
>Jenna
>Todd
>heroes
come on now
