>Stark: Zemo I know you've been trying to pit the avengers against each other by fabricating conflict using Bucky's past as a brainwashed assassin and I'm hear to arrest you.
>Zemo: Yep that's exactly what I did. Now watch this video where I fabricate more conflict using Bucky's past as a brainwashed assassin.
>Stark: Well, I'm convinced to start trying to kill Bucky for something I know he was brainwashed into doing and is in no way responsible and I'm going to totally forget why I flew all the way to Siberia in the first place.
Iron Man seems like he's smarter than that.
Iron Man 2 was about how much he missed and loved his dad. He has always made dumb decisions without thinking about them fully, and the most regretful thing from his past was not telling his dad how much he meant. His anger is justified as a flawed character. Zemo presented no immediate threat, and he couldn't believe his friend would betray him by hiding such a thing from him.
For fucks sake though your everyt thought doesnt need to be a thread, there is probably literally close to twenty fucking Civil War threads up right now just pick one and stick to it. Your opinion isn't as unique as you initially think it is.
>>69235077
Rekt
>>69235077
PWNED
>>69235077
If Stark compared about his dad then why in this movie did he only say he killed my MOM STEVE. He didn't even mention his dad.
Why did Tony really feel the need to enlist the help of a kid who only had 6 months of superpower experience ?
>>69235600
Because Spiderman is OP and his mom is hot.
>>69235703
>and his aunt is hot.
ftfy, but yeah, pretty much that.
>>69235546
Shit was established in the beginning of the fucking movie.
>>69234779
>It's an "autists really can't undestand why Tony would be emotionally unbalanced and irrational after seeing his own mother get strangled" episode
>>69235703
>>69235723
What sorcerery has allowed Tomei to still look so good for camera ?
>>69234779
I don't know man that was some dark shit. His father gets his face smashed in as he's begging for his wifes life only to have his corpse sat next to her and shes casually strangled........
>>69235870
Italian genetics.
>>69234779
It's ok that he raged, it's ok that he wants to kill Bucky. What bugs me is that we're supposed to sympathize with him, but he's been nothing but an asshole and cunt this entire time. He only cared that his mother died, he felt nothing for his father. He sold millions of weapons to governments that killed millions of people, he builds an almost unstoppable AI that kills hundreds, almost gets his GF killed. So I just can't feel sorry for him. I empathize, but I do not sympathize.
>>69235782
At the beginning of the movie he hated his dad back in 1991 moron. In the second iron man movie he FORGAVE HIS DAD.
>>69235892
So aging like a fine wine then ?
>>69235546
Yea thats actually a good point, I dunno. That doesn't exactly ruin it, im sure he loved his mom too.
>Stark is an impulsive, self-centred man-baby with staggering parental issues
>HUR WHY HE GO CRAZY AND FITE?
What is it with Marvel and botching the best IM story lines? It probably extends to other heroes but I'm only really a fan of IM
>Tonys alcoholism
Wasted and botched
>Civil War
Wasted and botched
>Extremis
Botched
>Mandarin
Botched
>Stark and Pepper Potts break up
>Finds Hot Aunt May who has a recently deceased husband
>RDJ in next Spider-Man movie
Who's ready for Uncle Tony?
>>69235829
If his mom was strangled wouldn't it show on a coroner report? Which in turn should have raised questins as to why a victim of a supposed car accident died by strangulation.
>>69236996
Civil War is an awful comic. Fuck off.
>>69235600
because the studio didn't find out they could use spiderman until the movie was already written and halfway shot so they shoehorned him in the middle
>>69234779
>not realising with Marvel properties if Civil War is in the title every character acts like someone else
>>69234779
He even cracked a joke and called him "manchurian candidate" that pretty much says all of what you said in two words.
>>69234779
This. This! I was thinking the same thing! This annoyed me so much!
>>69237216
Fuck you. The tie ins alone are better than most 90s Marvel
00
>>69235829
this. i don't understand why there is this expectation for him to have acted logically when the beginning of the movie established he's still fucked up over his parents deaths, then watching it in detail plus having a friend say he hid the truth from him all while having the guy that did it in front of him. granted, he was innocent, but still.
>>69237216
Seriously, where's this revisionist history that Civil War was ever good coming from? It was an interesting idea and it had a few choice moments, but ultimately it's still a Mark Millar comic.
>>69234779
Why was Hydra holding onto a digital transfer of the video surveillance tape of a murder from a quarter century ago? The only person it could have possibly given them leverage on was on their own brainwashed operative.
>>69236561
inspired by the same italian excellence
>>69235829
I would understand most people acting like that, but Tony Stark is supposed to be in the top ten smartest people on the planet. He should be nearly as logical as Vision.
All I got from the movie is that I'd be totally okay if someone killed Bucky so everyone can get over this shit.
At least in the comics it's a major ideological divide. Here it's just "muh Bucky"
>>69237386
It was part of the mission log for Dec 17, 1991. They don't seem like people that would fail to archive everything and anything.
>>69235829
The problem is that it cheapens the final fight. If it was all about Tomy throwing an irrational tantrum its disconnected from the ideological differences earlier. The entire story just feels very fragmented.
>>69237444
Have we been watching the same movies for the better part of a decade?
From the beginning of the MCU, he's been a character driven primarily by emotion, mostly guilt.
>>69237444
>He should be nearly as logical as Vision.
Then why did Vision hit War Machine instead of retracting his beam?
Emotions override control and intelligence.
>>69237386
Yes, why would an evil and well organized organization keep one of their major operations and assets well documented.
We will never know.
>>69237537
My bad. I thought a super secret organization would have some interest in maintaining plausible deniability.
Live and learn, I suppose.
>>69237516
Tony would never chimp out on Cap because of the ideologic shit.
>>69237532
I dont know what point you're trying to make. That vision hit War Machine because of emotions? Literally wut
>>69234779
>Cap: He wasn't responsible, Tony. Hydra was controlling him.
>Tony: I don't care. He killed my mom.
There you go, your answer in dialogue from the same scene you're talking about. Jackass.
>>69235600
prob cause spidey boi has sticky white webby that can restrain people without making em dead and thats what he wanted to do with cap united states and his entourage of enhanced individuals
>>69237604
Iron Man later addresses him saying he thought that Vision was the most logically sound one in their group and asked how he missed Falcon and hit War Machine.
Vision replies he thought he was the most logically sound one as well if I recall correctly.
Pretty sure he was getting emotional over Wanda leaving the Avengers.
>>69237516
It cheapens Cap's whole character that X amount of time he hadn't already come clean to Tony, what with all of Hydra and SHIELD's files having been released on the internet by the Widow.
Bucky's participation in Tony's parents' deaths was a ticking time bomb that he did nothing to defuse, and after having kept the truth from him since getting that paper file on Bucky from the Widow at the end of TWS, he decides that right there with Bucky within arm's reach of Tony, now is the time for honesty?
It's plot-induced stupidity at its finest.
>>69237582
Tony should never have chimped out at all. There should have been a reluctant fight between the two where despite best efforts, they just couldn't resolve the ideological differences and Tony had to take him in. The fact that Tony is just going on a stupid emotional rampage makes the entire fight feel dumb.
I aljso don't think the story justifies Tony being so irrational as to be explained the villians whole plan about division, know that bucky was brainwashed and the fact that Tony was already wrong about bucky once, and yet Tony still isn't the least bit catuous or hesitant about trying to fulfill Zemos stated plan. I just don't think Tony or the story has justified that kind of irrationality.
>>69237744
Maybe the fact that he just saw Bucky beat his father to death and burn his mother?
>>69234779
>Now watch this video where I fabricate more conflict
>where I fabricate more conflict
>fabricate
He literally watched his parents murdered in front of his eyes, his dad having his face smashed in, his mom strangled to death.
He didn't fabricate shit. Anyone would have been in a killing rage even Tony Stark.
>>69237744
It's his parents deaths, anon. That's not really something most people take logically and is about the most personal thing you can get.
Most people could be riled up by watching their parents die violently.
>>69237706
I thought Vision missing was just a miss. It didn't seem, to me, like it was anything to do with logic. Maybe he mind was on Wanda and he lost focus, but that's not really logic, more like being able to keep his emotions in check (or not have emotions at all, like he's supposed to).
>>69237362
The choice moments are completely missing or botched in the film, that's part of the issue. The film has it down to "dude wouldn't it be funny if the heroes turn on each other lmao" without anything that made CW remotely good
>>69237708
He didn't know it was Bucky, just that they'd been assassinated. He said that.
Here's a question I need answered, who did the fight cheorography for this movie ?
>>69237807
When? All I got was him affirming that he knew when Tony asked.
>>69237764
I understand Tony being angry. I even understand him hitting Cap. It just seems too little of an explanation when the villian was right there in the room explaining his plan and Tony had already been wrong about bucky before. Tony has never shown to be so emotional or irrational.
>>69237790
>(or not have emotions at all, like he's supposed to).
Now that I recall, I believe that's what Stark mentioned "I thought you weren't supposed to have emotions." to which Vision replied "I thought so as well." or something along those lines.
>>69237744
Are you fucking spergs serious about this shit?
Like Tony would just sit there after learning the truth about his parents, his parents that he has missed his entire life, that they were brutally murdered by a man standing ten feet away from him?
You think Tony Stark should be like, "hmmm I know this man viciously bludgeoned my father to death while he begged him to help my mother and then choked the life out of my mother as well, but he was brainwashed so I'll just sit here calmly and rationalize that I shouldn't do anything. Even though I just watched their brutal murders after thinking my entire life they died in an accident."
>>69237862
Yea I think it was something like that. Which makes sense. They are clearly starting to introduce the idea that Vision isn't perfect.
It was heavily implied in his conversation with Wanda that he has ambition, and a lust for power over the infinity stone. It made me quite intrigued as to what's next for his character, and his relationship with Wanda.
>>69237896
It's not spergs, it's literal children that have clearly never lost a family member they were very close to so they can't empathize.
>>69237929
They'll almost end up together, Thanos will rip out the infinity stone from his head at the end of IW2, and Wanda will go berserk on him.
>DCcucks complain about why characters have human emotions
Maybe it's called Man of Steel because every character in the movie is as dull as metal.
>>69237896
Tony being angry makes sense, I just think trying to kill Bucky when everything else had gone on is more irrational than anything Tony had been shown capable of.
Also in terms of a story reason for a fight, i think irrationality is cheap.
>>69237980
>You will never be a super-powerful android
>You will never make soup for your waifu-witch
jdimsa
Why does Bucky get away with so much and why is Cap so gay for him aside from muh past ?
>>69237854
He said something akin to "I knew, but I didn't know it was him". Don't remember the exact quote.
>>69238062
>you will never imprison her and put her in a straight jacket and a shock collar and see how she slowly starts to look deader and deader inside
>>69237854
>>69238100
He did know.
You forgot that dossier that Black Widow gave to him about Bucky at the end of TWS?
>>69238129
>Cap says he didn't know
>He did know, guys!
>>69238092
Because HE DINDU NUFFIN.
Seriously, that's it. All sins wiped clean like they didn't happen because he was brainwashed and couldn't help it.
Like, I'm cool with go easy on him because he legitimately couldn't help it, but Cap goes a little too far with that shit.
>>69238092
They were literally friends since childhood and Bucky is the only person left on earth who is from is time and can relate to all the same shit.
It makes sense.
Also he gets away with shit because its not actually 'him' that did any of it.
>>69238062
Hungarian food is criminally underrated. Forget that Italian shit, find yourself a Hungarian restaurant and you won't regret it.
>>69238151
How would anybody be responsible for things they didn't choose to do? Bucky didn't kill all those people, The Winter Soldier did.
If I hijacked your body and killed a bunch of pre-schoolers, would you be responsible?
>>69237810
A genius
>>69238298
So was it the Raid guys or what ?
>>69238129
He knew Hydra killed them, he didn't know who did it. Hydra probably had a lot of assassins.
>>69234779
You guys forget that Tony had already agreed to take down the Winter Soldier. It's literally a "Shoot on site" mission. He only initiates a cease-fire after he's convinced by Black Widow and the evidence Friday presents him. Once he realizes that the Super Soldier assassins are dead, there is no real threat. Driven by rage and betrayal, he feels more right than ever to take down Bucky. Going further, i believe WS is actually guilty. Black panther even asks him why he was running despite being "innocent". Bucky should have just shot himself, but he's such pussy that he decides to not only become a major catalyst in the decimation of an organization of heroes, but cause further conflict by attempting to preserve his survival.
>>69238376
I feel like that's still something worth bringing up at some point though.
It'd be awkward, sure, but letting a friend go on being haunted by his parents' deaths and not telling him what you know seems kinda cruel.
Cap is a super fag for Bucky and it's only after Peggy's death does this fag realise it
>>69238219
No, but I sure as hell wouldn't run around free with the full knowledge I could and would do it again.
I'd kill myself or get myself locked up for good or something. That's why Bucky is 110% right about being iced until there's a cure.
>>69238411
I thought the super soldiers were still at large. When did it show that they were dead?
>>69238435
He was also doing it to protect Bucky. Cap probably suspected Bucky did it and didn't want Tony to go on a manhunt for every Hydra assassin he could find.
>>69238474
The dudes + lady in the tubes with gunshots to their foreheads?
Did you just skip a large part of the movie to piss or what?
>>69238411
Because you have to be a complete and utter retard to think that you'll be able to convince a jury of peers, let alone military jury, that you've been brainwashed by a secret society
>>69238028
The fight was completely justified. There is no reason for WS to live. He's a walking tool for Hydra, a fugitive, a murderer and an accomplice in the murder of the Starks. The guy literally tried to live a life of freedom, instead of doing the right thing and turning himself in. It's the same ideology that cause Cap to go rogue. Just because you believe something is right.. doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Vision said it the best.. the whole thing was a catastrophic decision. The end result was the preservation of Cap's moral dilemna and the Winter Soldier getting Frozen. A more optimal solution would be for Black Panther to turn him into SHIELD.
>>69238494
Oh fug, you're right, I remember now. To be fair though I was prettybaked
Luckily I'm seeing it again this week.
>>69238103
How raped did she get by the guards?
Would Cap's outlook have changed if he lost his virginity to Sharon ?
>>69238515
Bucky would be a very valuable asset to the team. There is definitely a point for him to live, once he gets his hydra mind control shit sorted out.
>>69238547
Gang-banged as she kept that serious look in her face.
Just looking at them silently.
Had Tony lost his parents in a Hulk rampage, would he try to kill Banner?
>>69238509
I agree. You are absolutely right, but Bucky is NO hero. A real hero would do the time to avoid future conflict. The second Cap tried to help him, he should have just turned himself in. The only excuse he had NOT to, was to stop the SS Assassins. After that plan went out the window, he should have stood down. Why live? He even agreed that he can be used for evil. Remember the ending scene in Dark Knight? Yeah, Bucky aint shit.
After 50 posts all these capeshit threads become anons arguing over who's head-canon is more canon
>>69238639
Probably, if Banner was standing right there as he found out before getting some calm down time.
>>69238588
And psychopathic killers might make good soldiers.
They also might massacre your own troops, but hey whatever, they're skilled
You.
Not only does good not magically absolve bad, Bucky hasn't done any good at all, he should be executed or imprisoned for life
Both Tony and Steve were acting on pure emotions near the end.
Tony had major daddy issues and saw it as a way to revenge his parents, Steve just wanted to protect his childhood friend, remember his first love had just died and Bucky is the only person in the world he can fully relate to
So here's my question, how does all of this defeat Thanos honestly ?
>>69238651
I think you're overlooking the fact that he doesn't just switch magically from winter soldier to bucky. He took a lot of time just to figure out who he was. There is no way that he is going to come to the conclusion that he should off himself, or turn himself in, just like that.
By the end of the film he realised that he was a danger and should be put back on ice. I thought that was a reasonable amount of time for him to come to that conclusion, given the almost non stop action during the majority of the film which kept him preoccupied.
>>69238588
enough of an asset for War Machine to get paralyzed? Sure, the guy has powers, but Cap didn't want him to join the team. He just wanted him to avoid being punished for something he didn't do.
>>69237386
>Why was Hydra holding onto a digital transfer of the video surveillance tape of a murder from a quarter century ago?
Why would there even be a surveillance camera on a back-woods road in 1991?
>>69238687
So basically for cap much feelings are in the end much more important than truth justice etc. McU cap is a fucking cunt and I absolutely hate how they made him into captain feelings instead of captain fuck yeah America
>>69238679
Bucky saved Cap's life numerous times.
>>69238752
Fucking iPad autocorrect
>>69238752
In the end they are just humans
>>69238679
He didn't do anything though. The winter soldier is a completely different character to Bucky.
I know its confusing because they inhabit the same body, but you should really get your head around the idea of mind control.
>>69238639
Only under the right circumstances. If A) Banner knew, but didn't say anything B) Banner had recently caused harm to anyone and avoided captivity C) Tony had just found out. It was a culmination of things that the villain had planned to perfection.
>>69237629
this
>>69237270
what are you, stupid? he was so mad he just wanted to kill the person who murdered his parents, reason be damned. if you can't understand that, you're emotionally stunted.
>>69238779
And rabid dogs can't help being rabid but we still put them down.
What plot devices would occur if Thor and Banner were on opposite sides?
Answer me anon
>>69238778
This. Many times when watching I had to remind myself that despite all his great virtues, Steve is just a dude from Brooklyn. He isnt a computer brain like Vision who is programmed to do good. He isn't an immortal like Thor who has righteousness in his veins. His just a guy, who happens to have a very good sense of right and wrong, but like any other human his judgment can be clouded by emotion.
>>69238799
The hulk is a mindless monster (in 90% of appearances, and is mentioned to be in the McU, but doesn't act mindless, but that's shit writing). Banner cannot even remember stuff done as the hulk
Bucky remembers, Bucky enjoyed, Bucky is a mortal man who can and should be made accountable for his reign of terror and murder.
>no trial
>captain 'America'
Whatever MCU cap believes in, it sure isnt the American way
>>69238843
Thor would never pick a side and Banner would support Steve
>>69238843
I don't know why Thor would duke it out over whether or not to let mortals control him instead of just fucking back off to Asgard.
>>69238816
That's an awful analogy. It's heavily implied that Bucky can be cured.
>>69238744
I think you are allowing Bucky the luxury of time. The same could be said for Stark. He didn't have time to cool-off and process this. He was already going through some guilty shit after Ultron, Pepper, and the dead African kid. Then, his best friend is paralyzed, the avengers break up, finds out Cap lied to him, and finally learns that Bucky (who he is already supposed to kill based on orders that whole-heartedly agreed to) had KILLED his parents!
To think, all of this could have just been solved if Cap had just reminded Tony that both of their best friends are named James!
>>69238884
Oh my back, curing him will bring all those murdered people back, my bad
He deserves punishments for the guilty acts he committed you Berks. We still send criminals to prison even if they scream from the rooftops how sorry they are and how the voices in their head made them do it. Why do you excuse bucky
>>69238898
I agree that if I was in Tony's place I would want to kill him. Not even the most autistic person could resist that emotional impulse after seeing his parents being killed.
From an omniscient point of view though I can also sympathize with Bucky.
Which is pretty much what this movie is all about. Everyones motives are more or less equally valid, they are just conflicting
>>69238921
>He deserves punishments for the guilty acts he committed
Even Black Panther admits that Bucky is just as much of a victim as his father is
>>69238951
This. Call me stupid but I can tell you, if I had anyone to blame over my Mom's death instead of cancer, I'd be trying to kick their ass even if they were technically innocent.
>>69238884
I'm not the guy you are responding too, but that is a perfect analogy. There is nothing heroic on WS's defense to survive. It's meaningless... Cap is the only one doing something that is not utterly selfish.
>>69238921
Are you being intentionally dense?
Bucky never killed anyone. He had no control of his mind. Hyrda killed people, using his body as a weapon.
Most law systems will not count something as a murder unless there was intent. Bucky had no intent to kill anyone. He was not not in control.
Its the same as all the people that have been killed by misused Stark weapons. Tony is not held accountable for all their deaths, because it was never his intention for them to die by the hand of his weapons.
>>69238957
Ya huh
>murder hundreds of people
Waaaaaaah I'm real the victim here.
Bucky fags need to gtfo. Are you lot all bleeding heart lefties? You must be, because who else would allow a mass murdering assassin to get off Totally free.
Not like Spider-Man, iron man, Rhodes and the entire McU human gubmint disagree with you eh
>>69239010
refer to this post
>>69239020
>>69238957
Black Panther even said that if Bucky is "Innocent" then why was he running. His decision wasn't to turn him loose or cure him, but to freeze him. It might as well be the same as prison time, only less suffering.
>>69239041
The entire point of the movie is that revenge doesn't accomplish anything
>>69239056
Bucky was running because people that might kill him were after him, hell one of the reason Steve didnt want to turn him over was that he had no safety whoever got him wouldn't just kill him without any trial
>>69234779
9/10 flick.
Loved it from start to finish.
Spiderman/antman were amazing af
>>69238951
Exactly! No one is inherently wrong in this situation. It's the beauty of the conflict as you said. This movie is about fighting for the freedom to do what you believe is right. The polar opposite being, just because something is right, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Think about it.. CAP WAS WRONG! There was NOTHING in Siberia... he risked all that for a videotape. If he was working under Ross, none of this would have happened.
>>69239165
Got me excited for the next Spiderman movie. That's something I wasn't expecting.
>>69239185
Me either. I had doubts about Holland but now am so impressed.
>>69239020
HAHAHA! This is pretty funny. Are you so dense you forgot Stark made this point in the movie? He says that as soon as he discovered how many innocents were killed by his weapons, he stopped manufacturing. The equivalent for Bucky is to turn himself in... i dont' see another solution. Instead, he decides to risk everything for hope. Which later translates him to just getting frozen.. which is the same as prison.. go figure!
>>69237708
I had the impression that you were supposed to be watching that scene from Tony's perspective.
>Movie opens with a car crash scene, think nothing of it
>References to 10/16/1991 throughout the movie
>Finally see the video tape of the car crash, Tony says "wait a second..."
It's at this point the audience should start to feel like something's not right, that this whole thing has actually been way more important than they realized.
>See Tony's parents, realize what this whole thing is
>Brutal murder unfolds
>Cap, who is a pretty predictable character at this point, says he knew about this
Suddenly this "perfect" character has a blemish in his moral compass and the audience feels betrayed, as Tony feels.
Just my two cents, I thought that was the whole point.
Can we all at least agree Tony Stank was funny and one of the best Stan Lee cameos yet?
>>69239183
So it's slave morality (what I believe, subjectivism) vs master morality (moral absolution and deeds to back it up - food aid makes things worse to master moralists, slave moralists just think emotionally 'feed the hungry', never mind econmoics)
Cap is a fucking ducked bitch for supporting his master assassin mass murdering m8 over basically the entire rest of society
What a hero
>>69239101
you inadvertly brought up a flaw.. If Bucky was running for his life (which were believe to be true).. why didn't they just execute him after the chase scene. If they didn't kill him once.. why didn't Bucky just turn himself in again after his escape. He could have then informed Ross and they could have dispatched a team to Siberia. Instead the dumbass tried to be hero and fucked everyone up.
>>69239249
As other anon's have pointed out, he didn't turn himself in because, by the time he came to the conclusion that it was the right thing to to, it was more likely that he might be killed without trial.
And, as you say, he does the right thing in the end by having himself frozen, once he is able to.
>>69236194
You can forgive a person without necessarily liking him.
>>69239286
kind of hope it's a running joke
>>69239339
yeah, they sure tried hard to kill bucky
you'd think the ASSASSIN would be able to recognise when people are actively NOT trying to kill
>>69239275
THIS
>>69239339
Bucky had no way of knowing they wouldnt execute him in the first place, if the right people had caught him (ie not War Machine) he probably would be executed.
Way they were running for Siberia was because they were in a hurry, they could act now, but clearly doubted Ross would bother to act right away
>>69239306
This idea you have lodged in your head that Winter Soldier and Bucky are the same person is always going to prevent you from engaging in any meaningful discussion on this film, and prevent you from understand Cap's motivations, or the motivation's of anyone one his team, which is pretty much everyone by the end of the film.
>>69239183
>>69239306
>Wanting to be bossed around by the same guy that made Bruce Banner's life a living hell and tried to weaponize the Hulk
Yeah, that seems like someone I would trust too.
>>69239339
>He could have then informed Ross and they could have dispatched a team to Siberia
The accords
>>69237896
If I had been in Stark's position, I would have been angry with HYDRA. I would probably be a little pissed off, but I would keep my head. It would be reasonable to be frustrated because he couldn't take it out on the killer, but he could get justice given enough time, if only via ensuring it can't happen again. I'm sure many others would too. Stark once again proves he is a volatile liability.
>>69239437
>Muh country right or wrong
>>69238871
>Bucky enjoyed it
[citation needed]
>>69239249
Tony also became fucking IRON MAN in order to reduce his own weapon proliferation. in IM1 he went around the world 'decomissioning' his weapons
Bucky just has no guilt at all for what he did, no remorse. such a hateable character. I hope he becomes CAP to help killing off the franchise (avengers >>>>> captain america titles)
>>69239353
This only brings up the question.. why didn't Bucky disarm himself (literally lol) ASAP? Because he was "doing was he felt was right". He just HAD to get to Siberia and stop the evil that was taking place... To his credit.. he was unaware of the damage he had caused, but honestly the guy should have just turned himself in/asked someone for help from the very beginning. If i knew i was a walking weapon just waiting to get mind-controlled by an evil organization, i'd turn myself into the good guys (Avengers) ASAP! In his shoes, would you really try to live a "normal" life? He's a coward and his fear of death/punishment is a major catalyst. Honestly, i would have just shot myself after Tony discovers the truth. I'd be the only threat and it's not worth risking more people getting hurt/killed just to be someones pawn.. but we needed a movie i guess.
>>69238871
>(in 90% of appearances, and is mentioned to be in the McU, but doesn't act mindless, but that's shit writing)
Out of all the movies you didn't understand, you didn't get the Avengers?
It's not spoonfed to you but it is explained in the Stark-Banner dialogue and scenes that the reason the Hulk's mindlessness is a combination of rage and internal conflict with Banner trying to hopelessly hold it back from doing something while the Hulk tries to fight Banner by doing whatever Banner hopes he won't in an attempt to break free from Banner. There are exceptions to this, like whoever Banner loves being something that both of them care about. You could think of it as Hulk being Banner's rage personified, Banner IS pissed off about the world, but the ones he loves are blind spots to his rage.
Hulk then starts cooperating with Banner when they are in relative harmony during the events of NY by having the same enemies and Banner decides to work with the Hulk (harness his rage, common theme in movies and stories to use your bad sides and turn them good, you know) to fight the invaders.
>>69239572
inb4 words of contrition from fucky bucky
if he actually gave a fuck he would have did what he did at the end of the film STRAIGHT AWAY. actions > words
>>69239473
Cap and Stark never watched the HULK movie you fucking moron. They have no idea what he's about.. yet. It's the principle of the matter that they are having a conflict over, not an individual.
>>69239572
>Bucky just has no guilt at all for what he did, no remorse.
Yes he did, and this is shown in the movie.
>I hope he becomes CAP to help killing off the franchise (avengers >>>>> captain america titles)
pic related, I don't even care if this is bait or not, both ways it's cringe as fuck.
>>69239669
They know Banner and probably know enough about Ross past actions
Bucky won't kill himself after all the horrible atrocities he's caused because he's too much of a chicken-shit to do it and he know's Steve will protect him.
>>69239576
I would imagine that it would be a hell of a lot to process. I mean, not just the mind control and rediscovering his true identity, but you have to remember that he is like Cap in that he (Bucky, not the winter soldier) is used to life in the 40s.
He is trying to remember who he was, while trying to adjust to the 21st century...
And, also keep in mind that Bucky is not a super good-guy like Steve. He is just an average Joe when it comes to honor and doing what's right.
I think it is understandable that he tried to just lay low, rather than turn himself in. But I dunno, that's just me.
>>69239662
>>69239572
THIS! Bucky confirmed coward
>>69239437
I'm not the ones arguing with you about it, but this "two people, one body" shtick is stupid.
Brainwashed Bucky is still Bucky, just not in control of his actions and not responsible for them. He's not got multiple personalities since nothing in any of these movies have hinted at that, so it's a dumb way to parse the character.
>>69239711
That's not implied anywhere in this movie. You are an idiot. Please stick with your fan fiction
>>69239662
>>69239572
>>69239724
>>69239751
I can't tell if this is someone going full retard, or baiting, or pretending to bait to hide the fact that he's gone full retard
There is no reason for Bucky to feel guilty in any way as he did nothing wrong. Going on ice was the right decision though.
AHHH TONY HELP, TONY'S TRYING TO KILL ME
>>69237320
Rolling
How is tony making weapons and bucky being used as a weapon the same thing?
>Tony makes weapons
>wait, they are being used to kill people?!? Who woulda thunk that!
>Bucky does literally nothing
>Is somehow worse than tony
>>69239728
if cap's version of honor and doing whats right was followed, Tony would have never hacked SHIELD's servers and cap would never have bothered to look into the weapons program, thus hydra wouldnt have been discovered. Caps 'morality' is skewed as shit. He operates on constant appeals to authority, only in CW he has become his own authority, and so dictates his own morality
>>69239802
It's bait, right?
It has to be?
>>69239728
Again, if you can sympathize for Bucky, you can sympathize for Tony's murderous. It's a double edged sword. Bucky wanted Freedom/Survival and Tony wanted Vengeance/Justice. It very poetic how similar these are, but our arguments are based on how they are NOT.
>>69239774
Well a distinction has to be made.
And it is very clearly another personality that takes over. He speaks in a different language for fucks sake. No it isnt two personalities that battle with each other for control, like a nutcase in a psyche ward, but when he is the Winter Soldier he is taken over by an artificial personality created by Hydra which has nothing to do with his normal self.
Anyway, the main point is that he is not responsible, and I only invoked the idea of multiple personalities to get this point across to a couple of particularly dense posters.
>>69239669
>Cap and Stark never watched the HULK movie you fucking moron.
Tony was IN the fucking Hulk movie. He was a SHIELD consultant. He was also given all the data on Banner by Coulson in the first Avengers movie.
Cap, on the other hand, has access to leaked SHIELD and Hydra files with all of the Avengers' info made public. And it's not mental gymnastics to think that Black Widow, the person who leaked said information, who was also fucking the Hulk afterwards, wouldn't let Steve, the team leader, in on that shit. It's not exactly a private affair.
Bucky feels no remorse or remembers all the people he killed, yet he remembers Cap's memories
>>69239868
ok, no prison or execution, mental health ward. either way, he needs locking up
or ya know, freezing for an indeterminate period of time
bucky was wrong, cap was wrong, tony was right..again
>>69239869
>who was also fucking the Hulk afterwards
I doubt this was happening considering what happens if Bruce decides to fuck someone.
When they were saying the series of code words that activated Bucky's mental conditioning, they should have slipped in a "Rhinoceros Beetle"
>>69239817
>Tony Makes weapons
>Tony realizes weapons are wrong and starts his campaign as ironman to disarm them. (he even breaks up with Pepper)
>Bucky literally does nothing
>Is used for evil and knows he is a walking weapon for evil.
>Proceeds to do nothing anyway.
Bucky is a joke. You whole point is that he is a victim (which i agree he is), but in my opinion if you are a victim don't try to play a hero unless you are willing to go all the way. Instead he chooses to wreck the lives of real ones.
>>69239920
Why the fuck do you assume that a guy who has been traumatized and brainwashed is in a position where his mind is even nearly clear enough to give him a perfect solution where it's questionable if one even exists?
>>69239920
>bucky was wrong, cap was wrong, tony was right..again
OK anon, your favorite character was right. If that's what you want to get out of the movie, and nothing will convince you otherwise, then you can keep thinking that.
I mean, you're kind of missing the entire point of the film, but.. You can take a horse to water I guess.
>>69239984
see
>>69239987
Also, him turning himself in would probably mean instant death. Until there was a solution that didn't involve suicide, I don't see why do that.
>>69239981
I don't know why but this made me elicit a small chuckle
based on everything we've seen of cap as a whole, in all the films, which do you think would be more likely in the following scenario
Cap is mind controlled and forced to assassinate a bunch of world leaders. his mind control is broken
does he:
a) turn himself in peacefully, perhaps recoil in abject horror at what he has done, maybe top himself in remorse
b) flee from the avengers with your bumbuddy, cause a massive crisis and in the end do a) anyway because lol
Caps characterization in CW has been fucked to hell an back
>>69239955
It's brought up several times in Age of Ultron. Also, he has control of the Hulk now. Or even if he doesn't, maybe Widow's into that-- that's not the point.
>>69234779
You try to be "Smarter than that" after you watch a video of your Father face getting smashed in, and your mother getting strangled. Do you think you would have an emotional detachment? Do you think you would treat the situation in the most logical, big-picture manner at that point? Because if you actually think that, you're fooling yourself.
At a certain point you have to stop treating movies as puzzles, where you say "It makes no sense that this person didn't do this thing that would have made everything better." That's not how people are, and that's not how they should be in fiction. They do what they feel like doing, or what they feel is right, and then they rationalize it later, much more often than they actually do the rational thing.
>>69239869
Again.. this is feasible, but never implicit or even made explicit in the fucking movies. YOU can correlate these events because you are a fucking autist, but do you think the writers give a shit? No! because they are too busy making a good movie about conflict and not evil governments. Fucking idiot!
>>69239889
>Tony, while strangling Bucky: "Do you even remember killing them?"
>Bucky: "I remember every single one."
>>69239981
Why didn't Bucky just cover his ears after he broke out and started screaming to not hear the guy. What a dumbass
>>69239981
Do you think including "Homecoming" was meant as marketing for the Spiderman film? Seems like a weird coincidence.
>>69240115
I actually loved this line. You could feel Bucky's pain in it. All the torment of his past deeds that continued to haunt him.
>>69239868
>>69239920
It's called Dissociative Identity Disorder, and it's a real thing that can and has been artificially created in people.
(Note that I'm not saying Manchurian Candidate shit is real)
>>69240053
Your post makes no sense.
>>69240193I'm Big Boss and you are too.
>>69240193
He doesn't have it though. Nothing in any of the movies supports this. It's shitty and overused anyway considering it's actually ultra-rare.
>>69235546
He obviously care mostly for his Mom than his Dad, thats not even hard to understand.
so a schitzophrenic or disassociative personality disorder individual murders a buncha people when in an altered personality state (call him, Bucky) shouldnt go to prison or be locked up in a psych ward? gotcha.
>>69240235
>has been artificially created in people
>>69240292
So? Show me even one line of dialogue from any character, any movie that supports it even as just a head canon.
>>69240290
They shouldn't be held accountable for their crimes as if they had any intent to carry them out.
And yes, they should be taken off the streets until they are fixed, which literally happens at the end of the film.
Does nothing please you?
>>69240326
captain america's actions in the film dont please me, and bucky's cowardice and reluctance to face up to what had happened also dont please me.
>>69240052
>>69240290
PSA: Schizophrenia doesn't have anything to do with multiple personalities or DID and you make yourself look ignorant when you imply it.
>>69240353
Well every character is flawed in this film, and every character has something to fight for. That was kind of the whole point.
It was also supposed to get people to choose sides, and this thread shows that it excelled in that aspect as well.
>>69235782
>>69236653
>>69240281
Hahaha you guys forgot that this movie came out on Mother Day's weekend... It was a very simple way to convey why he wanted to kill Bucky. BvS did it one easter weekend. I guess Marvel had something similar planned.
>>69239041
>tfw team trump and team bucky
aye lmeo
>>69240449
This! Even Zemo had his reasons... Too bad he didn't have more screen time. A move is only as good as it's villain and this was more Man vs The world than anything.
>>69240449
True, but I feel like most people just picked a side based on whether they like Metal Dude or Cadet USA more.
>>69234779
He doesn't know Zemo is trying to pit the Avengers against each other. He thought Zemo's plan was to get the other winter soldiers, and that he framed Bucky in order to draw him out of hiding.
Also, Zemo's agenda doesn't change the fact that Bucky killed Stark's parents, something Tony still hasn't gotten over.
>>69240463
Hahaha you and still cant process that information to your brain.
>>69240095
>YOU can correlate these events but do you think the writers give a shit? No! because they are too busy making a good movie about conflict and not evil governments.
Civil War was made by the same people who did TWS, a movie about evil governments. The success of the movie hinges on correlating events together-- Tony's parents, Ultron/Sokovia, the events in TWS. Stick with one argument, faggot. You say Tony and Cap wouldn't know shit about Ross and his connection to the Hulk. Tony was in the goddamn Hulk movie and has spoken to Ross in the flick-- about the Hulk. Now for whatever reason, you want to pretend that Cap doesn't have any idea who General Ross is simply because it's never been referenced before, despite plenty of ways that he could've known about it. Fine, sure. So then what is your point? Spewing pro-Tony bullshit?
>>69240498
This anon gets it. Same deal with the other BvS. Does absolutely power corrupt absolutely? Who cares when Henry Cavil is hot!
>>69240498
pretty dumb as cadet USA basically turns full traitor in two different films, and in this one is full anti-government, anti-usa and frankly anti human. Keeping track of superpowered beings is common sense
>>69240578
You sound like the kind of person even /pol/ would call a bootlicker
>>69240523
You have a serious case of circular thinking. I'm not pretending Cap/Stark don't care about Ross, but it hasn't been made relevant yet, therefore it's not important...yet. Why are you arguing about shit that doesn't exist yet in the plot? You are just some autistic fuck trying to inject your Marvel Lore into this movie. Again, go back to your fan fiction.
>>69240742
My original comment was
>Wanting to be bossed around by the same guy that made Bruce Banner's life a living hell and tried to weaponize the Hulk
>Yeah, that seems like someone I would trust too.
Your argument is that they don't know what Ross is about, when that's obviously not true. Are you seriously this buttflustered that the pro-Tony argument is fundamentally flawed because of Ross?
>>69240742
Tony Stark met Ross in the Hulk (2008) post-credits scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qQF6LcgH_I
This scene is expanded upon in Marvel One-Shots: The Consultant, which concludes with Tony realizing Ross is an asshole and buying the bar to have it demolished just to fuck with Ross.
Dont't you see?
The fact that this thread exists, and each side thinks that the company there is readers, is the best justification of the movie.
>>69237320
Who the hell is 56. Is she a cyclops?
But why was one of Bucky's code words Homecoming?
>>69240998
>and buying the bar to have it demolished just to fuck with Ross
I like you Tony.
