If you didn't sympathize more with Tony, I feel bad for you because you must really hate your parents.
If you say you wouldn't have reacted the way he did, you are literally reptilian.
>Tony he was brainwashed.
>I don't care.
>Tony he was brainwashed we have evidence.
>I don't care.
>Tony I know I was letting my emotions guide me for the entire movie but you're not being rational right now. Also you've seen the proof that he's been brainwashed.
>I don't care.
Yeah. BvS was better.
You know why we root for superheroes and look up to them? Because they're supposed to be better than us. The trend of a "flawed hero" who's really just a lucky/wealthy chum is everything wrong with superheroes nowadays.
>>69172564
Hello reptile
>>69172535
I went into the movie already hating Tony for just being in it and left the theater hating Chris Evans for his wooden acting.
>>69172564
>a character didn't act the way I'd prefer therefor another movie is better
Shouldn't you be busy with school work?
>>69172535
When were they friends? It honesty never felt like it
>>69172535
they all understand each other in the end anyway and nobody actually dies
>>69172564
>martha
>okay :D
>>69172624
This desu
>>69172650
The black guy didn't die? I walked out after he fell
>>69172535
I didn't sympathize with him. He was a shit kid. He only cared about his mother dying not his father which goes to show he never loved his father.
He was wrong so many times and ignored it every time and never properly owned up to his mistakes.
I'm supposed to feel sorry for him because his father, an incredibly famous inventor who does work for the military get himself and his wife killed because the bad guys want his tech?
That's exactly how Stark lives his life. He almost got Pepper killed by being ridiculously idiotic. His Dad at least wasn't trying to draw attention, but his work still made him a target.
Nah, fuck Tony. He's an insecure manlet who has Daddy issues and probably and Oedipus complex.
The Wakandan nigger too.
>>69172740
He regretted not reconciling with his dad but of course he was probably closer to his mom.
If anything it's refreshing, these stories are always obsessed with dads.
>>69172535
Tony Stark is a manchild that can't seem to grasp that the WS was brainwashed, and that his friend was just trying to protect his friend. Oh but this plot point was compelling enought to make a movie after Civil War that has nothing tondo with Civil War.
>>69172951
Tony just got to see his Parents brutally murdered and is stood 10 feet away from the guy who did it. Well done to you if you think you could handle that situation calmly without flying off the handle.
>>69172951
>being brainwashed means never needing to be held accountable for your actions
The modern liberal, everyone.
Why
>Civil War
>Tony and Steve, two characters we know, disagree philosophically
>this winds up with them having a bit of a falling out
>neither hates the other, but they do find themselves on opposing sides
>eventually, it appears the two friends will reconcile
>in a twist, it's revealed that Steve knew Bucky murdered Tony's parents, which Tony watches before his very eyes
>the fight between them is suddenly heated and personal
>fight ends with shit having changed and status quo not being restored
>Batman v Superman
>a character we barely know and one we just met hate each other because the script says so
>they team up become moms same name
>Superman dies but not really so it's just bullshit without consequences
if you're not on Tonys side at the end of the movie, you have no heart
>>69173093
His flying off the handle is exaclty why he's a manchild. He has had experience of what brainwashing is, is a stupid excuse for them to get into a fight. Even the Civil War comic had a better reason for this.
>>69172535
>ultron was his fault.
>wants to make everyone sign accords.
i cant be fucked to watch civil war
can someone tell me what op is on about?
>>69172564
It doesn't matter brainwashed or not desu
>>69173364
If you're not on Tony's side at the beginning of the movie, you have no brain.
If you're not on Tony's side at the end, you have no heart.
>>69172535
The villain literally explained the whole plan to Tony meters away and Tony then followed through on it on someone who everyone knew was mentally compromised. Tony already knew he was wrong once before. The way he acted was just stupid and not justified by the story at all.
i feel really bad for tony in MCU
his life is suffering no wonder he has constant anxiety issues
>>69173382
Are you sure you aren't the manchild?
No well adjusted person would immediately shrug off seeing their parents murdered by a guy stood right next to them. He would calm down after and come around to the idea, sure, but his immediate reaction is pretty typical.
>>69173606
Tony's character flaw has always been his impulsiveness and ego. The guy who murdered his dad and mom was right there with him and Captain America had been covering for him the whole time, never telling Tony what happened before hand even though he has had ample opportunity since TWS.
>muh Martha
Fuck Tony
>>69173233
>Marvelbitches actually believe this
What movie are we talking about? Who is Tony?
>>69173664
I understand Tony being angry. I just don't think he has been ever been shown to be as impulsive and irrational a character as trying to kill a guy who he knew wasn't i control at the time and when the villain who orchestrated everything being right there.
I also feel that having this sudden revelation makes the context of the final fight a bit jarring. The whole rest of the movie was about registration and only a small part was about Tony's relationship with his father which was never really emphasized beyond Iron man 2.
>>69173754
the main character in Civil War
>>69172951
The fact that it has nothing to do with comic Civil War is the best part about it. The comic fucking sucked. And really if somebody beat your mother and father to death and your best friend hid this knowledge from you for who knows how long, you'd be a little irrational two, especially if you're someone like Stark. Best part of this movie was that both sides had good reasons for fighting and I related to both of them, a huge improvement from the comic where Iron Man was just Hitler with stupider facial hair.
>>69172535
how do you empathize with a caricature
>>69173647
Anon, it is not about what happened when he saw the video, it's the lengths that he went to when he's had the exoerience to make a better judgement. It's weak writting to have him be so butt blasted about that when he knows he was brainwashed and his weapons have killed the parents of many others.
>>69172564
>>69172564
>being brainwashed makes you not responsible for your actions
>>69173093
If that's the case then you literally can't sympathize with Tony because even Tony doesn't believe in what he's doing. When characters are fighting out of irrational emotional instead of some belief or goal, they've lost their agency and thus their actions are meritless. Any which way you try to justify it, just because it makes sense for Tony t attack him doesn't mean it isn't narratively weak. Especially when Tony is supposedly the left brain character who follows the letter of the law, whereas Cap is supposed to be he right brained spirit of the law character.
>>69173098
>victim blaming
>>69174251
>it's the lengths that he went to when he's had the exoerience to make a better judgement
not the anon you replied, but what lengths do you mean?
Remind me how this scene went again?
>Tony, I cannot imagine to understand what you are feeling but Bucky has been mind controlled since the 70s, a slave to his controllers who tortured and broke him
>Steve, I know mind control is real, I have witnessed it myself on multiple occasions and seen the effects. I have even been subjected to mental manipulation myself and know how powerful it is, not once have I ever judged, condemned or acted against a person who has been mind controlled, nor will I in this situation.
Or was it?
>Tony, I cannot imag...
>MUH MOMMY, UMMA KILL U BITCH >:( MUH SHIELD MUH DADDY
fucking capeshit man... fucking capeshit
>>69172535
>be tony
>completely fuck up in AoU
>get lots of people killed
>somehow this means every other superhero needs to be registered
lol, pass the "tony stark is a crazy bitch and needs government supervision" act, don't get on everyone else's nuts
>>69172535
Considers all the mommy issues guys have on this board...
>>69174428
Tony is an emotional time bomb. Had Steve told him about Bucky killing his parents and being brainwashed, he would've maybe taken it better.
>>69174432
>confirmed for not watching the movie
he just plays along with the government, he is not in charge of creating the accords, also government got triggered by Wanda blowing up a building
>>69174040
However the comic turned out to be, what it set out to do was much bigger in scale than what happens in the movie. They could've done a better job than what they did with this. Bucky was just a war casualty, and it's not like he didn't go through some tough shit as well. Tony only cares about himself, and failed to put himself in Cap or Bucky's shoes and see that it was Hydra not Bucky that killed his parents. This whole thing is like they took workplace drama and called it a Civil War.
>>69174428
It might've been better if it wasn't an emotionally charged situation where one of his friends had hidden that he murdered his family. Tony is impulsive and egotistical, it's a big character flaw - his impulsiveness kicked him in the ass in IM2, IM3 and AoU. It has done so again. If Cap had told him about Bucky and explained it before, it might've worked out differently. Cap basically betrayed Tony.
>>69173464
>>69174263
>Hawkeye is brainwashed in Avengers, is responsible for deaths on the shield base and the helicarrier. But he was brainwashed so of course is not responsible for his actions.
>Erik Selvig is brainwashed in Avengers, is responsible for the alien portal, responsible for thousands of deaths in New York. But he was brainwashed so of course is not responsible for his actions.
>Bucky Barnes is brainwashed and is responsible for hundreds of deaths as an assassin. He is 100% fucking responsible for every death and must be punished and by punished I mean immediately executed.
>>69174525
>magical control is brainwashing
>>69173832
I think Tony's rage at Bucky is just a culmination of his long emotional arc in the movie.
Since the beginning they showed us his vulnerable side :
>accumulating PTSD from previous movies
>trying to erase his traumatic memory
>breaking up with Pepper
>meeting Charlie Spencer's mom
>having hard time to reason with Steve regarding the accord
>having to take responsibilty for Team Cap's action
>putting unknown kid into danger
>almost losing Rhodey
>then watching the snuff video
no matter how rational he is, those series of events are the heaviest shits he has ever taken in the whole Avengers movie, and he snaps.
>>69174598
Literally having your brain programmed so that you have to do whatever someone who reads out some russian words says
>Any different than being magically controlled
>>69174647
Yeah that literally is different.
>>69174598
>moving goalposts
It for all intents and purposes a same fucking shit.
>>69174660
That's not what moving goalposts is.
Why do people on 4chan have such a hard time with these things?
>>69174631
;_;
being Tony Stark is suffering
>>69174659
Its no different in terms of responsibility for your actions.
>>69174631
>>69174720
fuck him, the rich bitch
>>69174598
>I was only pretending to be retarded!
>>69173098
He was about as responsible for killing Tony's family as Tony's weapons were for killing Wanda's.
>>69174720
IM3 would've been a nice end to his arc, they mention it in the movie too and he basically says he couldn't stay out of the game. Though I guess IM3 is why he started building Ultron, so he could give up wearing suits.
The worst person in this scenario is Steve for not telling Tony sooner.
Having the rational Tony Stark suddenly sperg out and be a flailing retard was painful to watch
>>69174525
>Hulk going apeshit in Africa
>no one gives a shit
>Avengers killing people in Africa
>HUUUURR accords
yeah strange how plots are in different movies, because they are focused on different stories
>>69174859
Nope it's shitty writing and gaping plot holes.
>>69174848
>rational Tony Stark
have you watched the iron man movies
tony is hardly rational in most of his movies
>>69172564
>Bucky : my mother name was Martha
>Tony : oh yeah? Mine's was Maria, fuckface! You thought I would spare you if the names similar?!
Wow. I would have never imagined they would ridicule BvS like that.
>>69174859
The video which the Secretary presented them might've still had another footage like the Hulk one or some datas/statistics but Steve told him to stop cause they've got the point.
>>69174779
Here is someone who despite having no feelings can still feel the Bern.
>>69174598
Brainwashing is a science and magic is science we just don't understand.
So is this movie worth seeing in theaters or what?
So I've been on Reddit for about 7 years now. I'm a moderator on several popular boards, including /r/4chan. I will try to give you guys an unbiased, objective outlook.
Reddit's main problem is its karma system. It encourages users to post content which the majority will agree with rather than something that may be controversial (but still contributes to the conversation). Because of this, most communities become predictable and boring.
This is the lifespan of a submission on your average default subreddit:
- 1 minute in: your submission will most likely be downvoted into obscurity. The reason behind this isn't necessarily because your submission sucks, but there are other people who just made submissions and are downvoting every other new submission in an attempt to have theirs noticed quicker.
- 10 minutes in: if you managed to survive this far, your submission may start picking up steam. You'll see the first comments start to roll in. They will be mindless, vapid, and generic things like "omg i spit my coffee out after seeing that!" The reason there is no effort put behind them is that they want to be the first to post before everyone else. The sooner you post, the more likely your comment will be seen and upvoted.
- 3 hours in: whoever managed to comment first on your submission will now be the highest voted comment, regardless of how little it contributed to the conversation. Since your submission will have so many comments at this point, more people will start replying to the top comments. The reasoning behind their comment will likely be noticed quicker, leading to more karma for their account. These replies are just as vapid as the original comment. Pun chains are very common. Remember: as long as they get that reply before other people, they're more likely to get upvotes.
- anything afterwards: barely any comments are posted because why even bother? Their comment won't be seen under the mass of thousands of other posters.
Marvel hasn't made capekino since GoTG
>>69172535
But didn't he already know that Bucky can be manipulated / hypnotized into doing commands of others?
The viewers knew, so it was hard to agree with his decisions because Bucky is innocent as well.
>>69175409
Absolutely.
>>69172564
>man acts irrational and emtional after he finds out another guy murdered his mother in cold blood
>tries to kill said guy
>autist is genuinely shocked
>>69174428
Did you forget the fact that Cap knew the entire time, yet didn't say anything?
>>69174432
>be tony
>completely fuck up in AoU
Except it was all Scarlet Slut's fault. I'm glad her brother died.
>>69174859
>Hulk going apeshit in Africa
>no one gives a shit
It was literally shown in the movie that it matters, you dumbfuck.
>>69175468
Doesn't matter. Watching a video of a man murder your mother is enough to make anyone irrational, especially someone like Tony, who was always impulsive.
>>69175439
Yep. Reddit could improve its site just by removing downvotes and making "sort by newest" the default.
>>69174631
I think this explanation could work if he had acted a lot more unstable when he entered the base. But he was already rational enough at the time to acknowledge that Captain was right. And it seems that after knowing that he was wrong once about Bucky that Tony would be more cautious. I just don't like irrationality as a justification. Seems like Tony just having a tantrum reduces the pathos of the fight.
>>69174631
This makes sense, but it's kind of shitty that Tony wants to get carte blank for all the shit he's caused but someone who had no control over their own mind and body has to die for their actions.
Bucky has PTSD as well. He lost an arm, captured by Hydra, he was experimented on, tortured, reprogrammed, and he has to cope with the fact that he (like Cap) are from a different time period and that his whole world is dead and most of the people he knew and loved have died or will soon die.
So this, "Boo hoo, my parents were killed and I lived a lonely life of partying as a rich playboy until my own stupidity nearly got me killed multiple times", play from Tony comes off as selfish.
Tony has been out of control multiple times and he's always given the middle finger to authority, but he goes around and arrests all of his friends because they can't control their powers and refuse to. He's a selfish hypocrit. So just because he's suffering from PTSD doesn't really make him any more sympathetic. It just makes him an asshole with PTSD.
>>69176604
He thought his parents died in accident until he watched the video. But for the rest I agree. That's kinda the point of this character isnt it. They tried to make him more loveable at times but ultimately he is always an asshole.
And that also makes his rage understandable when you see it from his perspective, it doesnt feel right or satisfying for audience but its still within his character to act like that. We dont have to sympathize with him.
>>69172535
They used a very different take of that line in the actual movie.
is Tony even necessarily trying to kill Bucky only out of revenge or is it more of just an externalization of anger and grief? Some people in pain just want to make others be in pain too (e.g. Zemo)
I mean he goes after Cap way more in that fight than he does Bucky. Cap hiding the truth from him is pretty bad, and it's understandable for him to just lose it on Cap.
