J. R. R. Tolkien vs George R. R. Martin
Frank Herbert drops from the rafters with a bat and steals the belt.
>>69072244
Why did you think this would even be a competition.
FUCKING GAME OF PLEB FANS TRASHING BASED TOLKIEN
>genre fiction
>>69072325
fuck off a song of ice and faggot
>>69072363
this whole board is infested with game of throne fans right now its disgusting
FORGOT LINK
SORRY EVERYONE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp_luluo0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp_luluo0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp_luluo0
>>69072399
They're basically the same infestation that keeps on drumming about capeshit as well and starshit to boot.
>>69072424
>UNINSPIRED HACK
FUCKING FAT GEORGE BTFO
>>69072440
the board has been dead for a while. theres zero taste when these people run amok
>>69072424
That was pretty good actually
If you ever wanna get upset, look at the suggestions for future rap battle in the comments sections of these videos.
>>69072575
>Trump vs Bernie
>>69072781
>do some youtubers
>>69072781
>Deadpool vs Deathstroke
>Scorpian vs Ghost Rider
>Kylo Ren vs Han Solo
>Yoda vs Hulk
>Ben 10 vs Generator Rex
>Iron Man vs Cyborg
>ksi vs pewds
>mat santoro against keemstar
>>69072424
A guy at work showed me one of these and i had to pretend to laugh a bit so it wouldnt be uncomfortable.
>>69072244
Social Commentary of the 90's-2000's vs the greatest literature ever written/ the most compelling world and highest longevity in a work to date. hmm I wonder
>>69072244
I don't think anyone with a modicum of taste actually debates this, regardless if you even like one or the other.
Tolkien's work wasn't about writing novels, it was about taking the pre-Christian Germanic modes of narrative and making new stories told in the same "voice". His Middle Earth stories were extended exercises in comparative mythology and linguistics, backed up and fueled by his own doctorate-tier learning in the subject(s). You don't compare the merit of something like LotR to other "normal" novels; it's more of an experiment.
Martin is a TV writer. I don't mean that to be inherently insulting, but it is what it is. His oeuvre is very soap opera-esque; this becomes very apparent when you read his non-ASoIaF books. He's not so much a sci-fi/fantasy writer as he is someone comparable to a Ken Follett or a John Jakes. Lots of inter-family conflicts and political maneuverings that can sometimes be interesting when they touch on the inner workings of the characters' motivations and mindsets, but too often relies on DRAMA and SURPRISE TWISTS to propel the plot.
tl;dr Tolkien was working with something that can actually be considered literature because his body of work is literally about literature as a concept in the western tradition and how it evolves over time. Martin's a high quality hack who tells fun stories.
>>69072244
Both are genre fags.
Literally sci-fi tier garbage.
>>69073056
Do you feel better now, anon.
>>69073056
At least tolkien fought in a war and appreciated true literature and art.
George is a talentless hack who loves sex and violence. He wanks his micro dick to HBO GOT.
This is the fourth Tolkien VS Diarrhea thread I've seen today. What is going on?
>>69072244
These videos make me cringe intensely. Not to mention rap is disgusting lowest tier of music for apes.
>>69073211
logical reactions pleb
>>69073056
/lit/ memes sure give an air of credibility to one's hot opinions.
>>69072440
>stop liking what I don't like!
>>69072244
I had more fun reading GRRM, despite it being of a "lower quality" than LotR. I honestly have no inclination to revisit Tolkein, it is so goddamn dry
>>69072244
People need to stop comparing LotR with GoT just because
they are both set in a medieval setting.
Why is this even a question? Is there someone who doubts the answer non-cretins would give?
>>69072310
Pic related
>>69073280
Ah, the pleb's last line of defense for 6000 years of Western art and media
>>69072358
this. george rr is an illiterate compared to tolkien.
I fought in the bloodiest battle in world war one, only to be mocked by a overwieght tallentless degenerate.
Bakker is better than both tbqh
>>69073290
They also both have R.R. in their names.
>>69073290
well they are the only worlds they have enough lore about them that you could live in them.
Harry Potter is too close to our world.
Shannara is our world but in the future. Also, its ambiguous
Sword of Truth is ambiguous at times
Narnia is close, but there is like different places depending on the time in Narnia and it gets all weird.
I've never read WoT but I hope its like LotR and GoT and not Like Shannara
>>69072244
>J.R.R. Tolkien
>George R. R. Martin
>J.K. Rowling
>C.S. Lewis
Why do they all do this
>>69072440
YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!! well not all of it. in fact not most of it. BUT DON'T YOU SPEAK POORLY OF STAR TREK MOTHER FUCKER OR I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN AND SHOW YOU WHAT US TREKKIES ARE MADE OF!!!
I love these videos, and that jew who usually acts with them is based
>>69073401
H.P Lovecraft
>>69073285
Am I the only one who actually enjoys Tolkien's style of writing? It's obviously styled after old Germanic texts, which I liked quite a bit.
>>69072244
Tolkein. No contest.
>>69072363
>yfw most of the early literature we read in school could be considered genre fiction
>>69073443
I love it!! It feels like you are actually sitting in a pub with your friends, enjoying ale and old toby while listening to a story. Also, it never seemed weird when people started singing, which is a hard thing for a writer nowadays
>we don't need the backstory on every tree branch
But I suppose we need the hundreds of pages detailing every item of food ever eaten by someone in Westeros.
>>69073400
In terms of a realistic world people could live in, WoT is the best there is imho
>>69072956
Holy shit, I do exactly this whenever a friend or coworker shows me a "funny" video. It's a shit feeling but I don't want anyone to know what a cynical freak I am or that I'm weird.
>>69073443
Not at all.
His description is second to none, and his prose reflects his own studious work into ancient cultures and mythology.
>>69073400
I read the first in the series, as far as prose goes its pretty close to being a middle ground for LotR and GoT, not as simple as Martin but not as explanatory as Tolkien.
>>69073443
I loved The Hobbit and The Silmarillion, couldn't quite get into The Lord of the Rings back in the day and nowadays I feel the movies are just too big in my memory to enjoy the books.
>>69073443
I love how picturesque he is. It really made you want to live in the world of Arda. Even if sometimes he goes on and on, it is necessary for you to really appreciate the world like he did
>>69073505
When i was younger and reading LOTR, i couldnt get past the birthday party. Nowadays, i actually feel bad after they leave Hobbiton.
>>69073536
hey, don't complain. Fat people doing an amazing job describing the enjoyment of gustation is the main reason I like GoT and definitely the best part of Peter Jackson's directorial style. (well maybe sweeping landscapes too)
>>69072244
Let's compare and contrast
>Where now are the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the harp on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the deadwood burning,
Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?
>Tyrion reflected on the men who had been Hand before him, who had proved no match for his sister’s wiles. How could they be? Men like that... too honest to live, too noble to shit, Cersei devours such fools every morning when she breaks her fast.
>SUnset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her to the stream to suck up more water
Well, that's a tough one isn't it?
Not to sound like a bigoted Tolkein fan, but I find Tolkein to have been the more refined of the two. His interest in linguistics lead him to create all that smooth, fluid elven language which was a literary embodiment of all their mysticism. You also have all of his personal experience on the front lines of World War 1 - losing virtually all his friends - feeding into his storytelling of the great war which engulfed Middle-Earth.
I just don't see any of that kind of stuff in ASOIAF. Sure it's grittier, but I don't feel that gritty is necessarily a good way of telling a fantasy story. Tolkein's mythos tells much more classical but ultimately more enchanting stories.
>>69073537
Thanks for letting me know, I want to read them but I don't have time.. maybe if the show comes out I can watch it! Also, is it able to be made into a map (this is a good indicator,)
>>69073654
The audio books might be your best bet if you travel a lot.
>>69073549
read em, it would be like an extended-extended edition... its great!
>>69073613
I'd rather get food porn similar to what was delivered in Hannibal. Shame D&D don't adapt those food descriptions with as much effort as George put into writing it.
Anyway, for some reason, reading about food just does nothing for me. Regardless, I was just commenting on "GRRM" shouldn't be complaining about seemingly meaningless detail.
>>69073632
This is /lit/-tier cherry picking
It is sad that adults that should be reading Hemingway are obsessed with fantasy fiction.
>>69073056
Tolkien is a terrific writer and a true artist, and /lit/s opinion on the matter is very, very stupid. Agree on the fat guy tho.
>>69073649
As far as I remember (it's been quite a while and it's a big ass book), the last book started to get saturating with the grittiness and the "everything goes to shit and people die" flow of things. Like, come on man, give me a fucking break.Why the fuck would Jon Snow did what he did and betray every value he's been building to uphold if it's not for "lel let's just kill this character, people will totally be sad about it"
>>69072983
>tl;dr Tolkien was working with something that can actually be considered literature because his body of work is literally about literature as a concept in the western tradition and how it evolves over time. Martin's a high quality hack who tells fun stories.
Tolkien fails because his books are too boring to be reading by people interested by fantasy and too childish to be read by anyone mature enough to slog through hundreds of pages of people walking.
>>69073707
OK. Show me one of the poems that Tolkien wrote and is bad. Show me passages of Gurm that are actually good. You fucking fag
>>69073717
Tolkein has never been esteemed by the literati. He is considered to be trash, no better than GRRM
>>69073536
>"All that history is boring!"
>Spends half a page describing how Daenerys' diarrhea looks and smells
KEK
Tolkien also gets extra credits for doing what he did when he did it. Like this shit wasn't common when he published it.
>>69073700
>69073700
not saying u were just don't, I don't want the best part of the books to change cuz he feels self-conscious over some internet babble
>>69073784
Sure thang buddy.
>>>/lit/
>>69073761
I'm glad I don't have ADD.
>>69073784
No one really cares about literati and if you base your tastes off of theirs then you should really reconsider things.
>>69072244
Tolkien goes in >>>/lit/ you pleb.
>>69073761
this is sooo wrong... Tolkien is the best and most thrilling example of fantasy... what you are thinking of is sword and scorcery... Just because their isn't magic and action and tits all over doesn't make it boring. Fantasy is about escapism which is what Tolkien does best, he tells you about the weather and the trees and the things that you would feel if you escape to his story
>>69073846
I'm not from /lit/. You should read more about the series and the background behind it. It was considered utter garbage by critics, and has not gotten much better reception even today. Tolkein studies was started by fans, not by academics. If literature is defined as what has garnered high esteem from the well read, then Tolkein ain't that and never will be]
GRRM and him have more alike than not
>>69073889
then y u on 4chan??? must be in denial
>>69072909
>Kylo Ren vs Han Solo
B-but that happened in the movie.
>>69073761
># of Readers determines quality of work
So Transformers is better then Citizen Kane?
>>69073981
Moby Dick was absolutely trashed by critics when it came out. Dune went through 4-5 fucking publisher's offices before being picked up. A Confederancy of Dunces was also criticized heavily. Somehow the "LITERATI" seem like a bunch of stuck up twits
>>69072244
>faggy thread talking about youtubers making faggy songs about faggy authors that wrote faggy books that were adapted into faggy tv shows or movies
Seriously, /cel/ when? So this off topic fucking cancer has a place to go.
>>69073981
Yeah, and people said Van Gough's work was trash when he first made it too.
The opinions of academics and critics don't mean shit in the long run.
>>69074115
kill yourself.
>>69073056
Tolkien was an Oxford Don.
Your favorite writer is an alcoholic loser
>>69073708
Hemingway was actually a terrible writer though.
Why can't we just enjoy both?
>>69074115
Oooh, that edge.
>>69074279
Edgy how? How many degrees of separation is this from actual tv or film discussion? Its off topic cancer.
>>69073761
They are the best selling novels EVER. So obviously people liked them, even decades before the movies
>>69072424
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N_RO-jL-90
these have gotten pretty good
>>69073443
His descriptions of nature annoyed me immensely because I didn't know what kind of tree or flower he was talking about just from the name. It eventually affected how I do descriptions in my own prose. I don't think I've had any other issues with his writings. I still pull out the Fellowship sometimes just to read the parts about traveling through the wilderness.
29 July 1954
11 November 1954
20 October 1955
vs.
1996
1998
2000
2005
2011
forthcoming
>>69072956
When were you diagnosed with autism?
>genre fiction
Since when did lotr fags become so bitchy and whiny?
>>69072909
C'mon, Yoda vs Hulk is actually fairly decent idea. The rest are burning trash
>>69072424
>People actually watch this shit
I want /v/ kiddies and /r/eddit faggots to go now, please.
Tolkien was an artist, George is a journalist.
>>69072956
same here.
my boss recently showed us the "Naked and Afraid" SNL skit with Peter Dinklage, after he hyped it up as the funniest thing ever created.
it was uncomfortable
>>69073443
His prose is a joy to read. Almost every sentence is brimming with creativity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjzC2DRgEo4
>Shire-raq
Come on, that was funny
>>69075479
That must have been extremely uncomfortable.
>>69072310
Why do people like him so much?
Dune wasn't a bad book series but I felt like it tried too hard to be pretentious. It seems like the hipster's sci-fi/fantasy book option.
>>69072244
One invented the modern fantasy genre and the other took parts of The War of The roses and changed the names.
This isn't even a contest.
>>69072956
iktfb
>oh haha man that's crazy
>>69075597
for you
>>69075229
The fuck
>>69075630
>One took part in the War of the Roses
Tolkien isn't that old you shitter.
>>69072909
top fucking kek
>>69075416
>Yoda vs Hulk is actually fairly decent idea.
>>69075763
>green small guy vs. green big guy
>>69075398
When dumb fucks who clearly never read the series started comparing them to shit which isn't remotely similar.
>>69072781
>ksi vs pewds
>>69075429
>Being so obsessed with Reddit/normies that you reflexively hate genuinely clever and well-researched lyrics
>>69072358
whats this a reddit rage comic meme picture
>>69075479
You should punch your boss in the nuts for having a shit sense of humor.
>>69072956
You don't have to pretend to laugh at ERB. I can assure you no one that watches it laughs out loud at those videos.
>>69075906
are you a big pewdiepie fan as well?
>>69073536
I've never met a thin person who calls themselves a "foodie". I wonder why?
Tolkien:
>Fought in world war one
>Made his own language, also spoke Old English and was an expert in Germanic and Anglo Saxon history and languages
>His books made the fantasy genre as it is today
>Based Traditional Man who loved England and English History
G.R.R Martin
>fat shit
>copied off the war of the roses
>chooses sex and descriptions of shitting because it's edgy
>has a shitty tv show
Tolkien is superior by far
>>69076084
No. ERBOH actually has effort and talent put into it.
Tolkien was a far far more realized writer who invented a functional language, wrote tons of poetry, an extended lore and studied the things which influenced his universe intensively. GRRM started as a TV script writer and has very little of the grace or skill Tolkien has.
>>69072424
>I kill every character you love!
When will this meme end? Characters dying in fantasy stories isn't something new. Tolkien killed plenty of characters as well. IE: Silmarillion
Also comparing two authors whose series are completely different is stupid.
>But tits and kelly c brah!
>>69076211
>>Made his own language
Made several languages. They were the driving force of his works. He made languages and then wrote the histories that explained all the dialects and even the etymologies of many of the words, based in fictional histories.
His autism was off the charts, and we thank him for his efforts.
>Tolkien is boring and predictable
kek, ASOIF is so full of random twists that even Martin have no idea how to finish
>>69076211
And ASOIAF only came about because George was procrastinating on another piece of work he was meant to be doing.
Never change.
>>69073443
It annoys me that I can't get through his work because I know what I'm missing out.
I just can't finish that damn first chapter of Fellowship.
>>69073559
Bro, we do live in Arda, just well after the third age.
>>69073981
To put it bluntly, the opinion of the literati and the critics tends to be based on political bents and intellectual incest more than on artistic merit, and those that hold it as the ultimate litmus test of worthiness of literature always struck me as the sort that reads to appear smart and educated, not because the subject matter is worth reading. The same goes for the separation of genre fiction from mainstream literature. Fiction is not worth more or less depending on whether it uses a set of themes personally fancied by W. D. Howells, and you can't persuade me that Asimov's work has no merit, or that Lem cannot stand up to the likes of Hemingway.
>>69076211
Don't forget that, by now, there is absolutely no doubt that Martin doesn't care if he finishes his work or not.
If I were a morbidly obese 70 year old and thought I was risking leaving my work unfinished, I'd either bust my ass off, or at least get a bit healthier.
Or scout out writers for a worst case scenario to continue it after I'm gone.
>>69076306
Killing characters in a drama for the purposes of progressing the drama is not the same as breaking the spine of your own narrative for shock value, or trying to wipe the table clean when you don't know what to do with the character.
>>69076306
It's more from killing off what appear to be protagonists.
>>69073649
Too bad he was a christfaggot and ruined the world with his pseudo-jebus parables instead of making it a pagan saga.
>>69076695
You're failing too hard. Try baneposting, that's a good trick.
>>69074158
well their contemporary critics' evaluations are garbage. it matters about the criticism in the long run
>>69073443
No, you're not. He's a great writer.
>>69073761
LoTR has always been considered a masterpiece series from day one regardless of age groups. The only place where Tolkien fails is in your dreams.
>>69073484
>we
Not everyone lives in a pleb country with shit education.
>>69073708
There's nothing wrong with a bit of sci-fi or fantasy every now and then, but it seems like it's all people read nowadays. A lot of people have never read the classics outside of sparknotes in high school. It's very sad.
To be fair, though, I would read an entire saga about Daenary's shits before I read Nathaniel Hawthorne again.
Surprised that they didn't mention how George is a lazy fat fuck that will never finish The Winds of Winter. They wouldn't even have to worry about it being dated, because it's pretty much guaranteed it will never get finished.
>>69076925
Twow will be finished. ADOS won't though and we will get cucked.
>>69076211
Tolkien was badass. He was also a professor so languages and such was basically his job and he wrote books for fun. He didn't think anyone would like his books, which is kind of amazing when you think about it. Seemed like a really humble person.
>>69077005
With the amount of foreshadowing and prophecy shit Gurm does i'm pretty sure we'll be able to piece together most of the ending without ADOS, especially with D&D spoiling half of it
GRRM wishes to be as amazing as Tolkien. He will never come close
>>69076887
I think I might have been one of the only kids at my school who actually read the books instead of just looking them up on spark notes. I-I wasn't a very social kid.
>>69076887
The goal of everybody who picks up a book isn't to read the pinnacle of the genre and analyse literary masterpieces.
It's not "very sad" at all, most people do it for entertainment. I read fantasy for escapism and because i'm passionate about the genre, be it TV, film or books.
>>69072310
You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar and when my little girl's old enough, her virginity is yours.
>>69075609
I hope you're overcome by a pack of dindus and raped horribly until pos' you filthy dog you.
>>69072244
While I like both I tend to like Martin take on fantasy more than Tolkien.
I hated the notion that Tolkien pushed in the end game with Aragorn being a great king, he was a great person but what would that make him a good king? For that reason I see someone like Twyin far more believable as character, he was a good ruler because he was more pragmatic in his judgment. The same criticism goes towards Sauron and the description of evil in The Lord of the Ring, while in ASoIaF the evil is obviously the Others, so far we know so little of them that we actually don't know if they are EVIL like Sauron was Evil or Evil in actions but not on intent. Though I would say that Tolkien was a better writer, Martin strike me as someone that is far more interesting to think in the world he has build and the characters themselves than in the story he wants to tell me.
>>69077276
Do you mind answering the question instead of memeing?
>>69072363
>Watching or reading anything that is Fiction
Yeah this board is full of plebs.
>>69077318
But most of television and film is fiction.
What are you doing here?
>>69073056
someone post that screencap about how much work went into creating elvish
>>69077441
Breathing his own farts and convulsing in orgasmic pleasure from the smell.
>>69077441
Laughing at all you fucking plebs.
>>69077306
Maybe it's because it was as alien as it gets while also familiar. I watched the David Lynch film in 87. Read Dune in 97. It's hard to say. Because by the time I started Reading Dune, I was already a huge fan of David and Leigh Eddings books. Their books were miles above anything written by Tolkein. Herbert's writing reminded me of the Eddings' proses and I became hooked. I was slowing down on reading King because around this time his stories were becoming shittier. Storm of the Century being the last good thing that he did.
Frank Herbert's Dune series is perhaps, better than the Eddings' works. Can't say why exactly but I could reread any of his dune books and has done so, dozens of times.
Jeanne Cavelos' Babylon 5 Passing of the technomages trilogy is as immersive as the Dune books are. Well not as deep but deep enough to capture your imagination.
>>69077287
lol
this isn't bait
>>69077493
>>69077491
Perfect.
when reading or watching game of thrones has it ever given you goosebumps?
>>69072244
George. Tolkien wrote a great story, filled to the brim with pointless detail (languages that would give anyone fluent in latin a headache), but his characters can't hold a candle to Martin's characters.
Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel, Aragorn and the rest of them are bland and unimaginative compared to Jamie, Tywin, Tyrion, Varys, Littlefinger, etc. Heck - Bronn trashes Aragorn any day of the week and twice on sunday.
>>69073127
That isn't true at all, GRRM is basically a hippie all his story are strongly anti war. The entire Dorne side after Oberyn death is basically him pointing fingers at the cycle of vengeance and violence and all of his works go out of their way to portrait violence and war as the worse possible outcome.
One of the things I hate about TLOTR is how pious it feels, no wonder since Tolkien was a true catholic. He beloved in good vs evil, that makes a great enemy but not great characters.
Both are bad as authors.
Tolkien created a glorious world.
George R. R. Martin accidentally created something that transfers very well to a TV show.
>>69077547
It isn't. Maybe you should express your own opinions instead of garbage. Oh wait most likely your opinion is also garbage, so move along.
>>69077251
It's sad that people aren't reading literary masterpieces. As I said, there's nothing wrong with reading fantasy books to escape or be entertained.
Also
>The goal of everybody who picks up a book isn't to read the pinnacle of the genre and analyse literary masterpieces
Maybe for you, but I do read stuff like Dostoevsky so I can think about different and interesting concepts, not because I'm enthralled with the ins and outs of life in Russia.
>>69077604
What makes them "bad" authors?
Also, what authority do you have to call a former holder of the Rawlinson and Bosworth Professorship of Anglo-Saxon a bad writer?
>>69073401
U.R.A. Faggot
>>69077732
He is an anonymous on an image board. So he can be anyone he wants and lie so he can feel superior to other anonymous faggots.
>>69077287
my interpretation of this is that Tolkien tried to make LOTR something closer to a classic story of good vs evil rather than a more realistic and grey interpretation of characters and philosophies. Essentially it acts as a myth with a clear message or purpose to it. I remember hearing something about how he wanted LOTR not to be an analogy for anything specific yet be analogous enough for the reader to choose the analogy for themselves. Tolkiens approach makes the story and its values more applicable to real live rather than trying to make a "realistic"story that reflects the uncertainty and ambiguity of real life.
>>69072358
>Tolkien
>Based
I could say pick one but I'll take forty fucking pages describing how you may only select a single option of the two.
>>69077732
>a former holder of the Rawlinson and Bosworth Professorship of Anglo-Saxon
That really does not mean he's a good author.
His writing is far too complicated at times when it really shouldn't be, he blatantly copies things from Greek mythology texts, his writing doesn't fit his target audience and it is very clear he is writing those books mainly for himself and not for his audience.
Remind me again how mainstream LOTR and fantasy were before the movies?
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K3H-FjEhkw
sounds like the equivalent of who inflates batmans tires and how does superman shave
>>69077790
But that is why I hated his story on itself and the messages it brings out. While I liked a lot of other messages in the book through the interactions of characters I can't say I have a favorite character in the whole trilogy outside of Boromir which was the only character that actually felt human, with both his good and bad side, with his own glory and sins, with his own goals and ideals. The rest of the cast felt the older I get feels like a cartoon or some random nameless characters with nothing to give rather than being a pawn in the story to move forward.
The older I get the more I hate TLOTR characters, though I still love some of the themes and the lore behind it but the characters man...
>>69077898
>Remind me again how mainstream LOTR and fantasy were before the movies?
Are you fucking serious? I MEAN ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS? ARE YOU FUCKING 18 OR SOMETHING?
>>69077945
>that shitty clickbait title
Lol.
>>69077945
>what was his tax policy
Goddammit George just finish the story.
>>69077898
other than the bible it sold the most copies of any other book of the 20th century
>>69072781
>deadpool vs deathstroke
there's literally already been a deadpool video fucking idiot
>>69077898
LOL
Tolkein literally invented the genre Martin writes. He wins by default.
>>69077898
>his writing doesn't fit his target
>it is very clear he is writing those books mainly for himself
so his own writing doesn't fit himself? or what?
>>69077287
>>69077790
Tolkien wanted to write shit like the Norse Sagas, he was never interested in characters in particular. Think Beowulf, not le plot twists television writing.
Martin is a complete hack, at least Tolkien wrote Roverandom
>>69077945
Not it isn't. That is how you create a world and how you poke it with a stick to see if it holds up. You start to ask questions and see how well that world can answer it, the sillier the questions get because you successfully answered the rest the best/real your world is going to feel like.
Tolkien criticism is nothing new and how he decided to dismiss some things isn't news either, now we could argue that the sentence that Martin is criticizing is basically to serve as a closure rather to be open up to further question and scrutiny but that doesn't mean that the criticism isn't valid and in the hole trilogy Aragorn didn't show signs of actually be a good ruler, how could he if the entire trilogy have him going here and there and the only choice we see him take that could ended up affecting his kingdom was made for him by the wise council of Gandalf.
>>69072909
>my dick against yours
>>69078127
>le retarded man think I am talking about le everybody dies meme
I am talking about how interchangeable Tolkien characters are and how lifeless they all feel. Is like most have a set list of predetermined personality traits that only work to move the plot forward instead of actually feel human.
>>69076851
He means pre-modern prose you retard
please support other authors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_joint_winners_of_the_Hugo_and_Nebula_awards#Novel
>>69072244
>>69078303
>somebody thought that post was worth screenshotting
>>69078256
>science fiction
>>69078324
It is.
>>69078406
>a man had a hobby
wew nice stop the presses
>>69078406
I'm sorry but "He made a language before starting!!" is just irrelevant
>>69078493
Effort is always appreciated.
Especially when some hacks just phone it in by comparison.
>>69078229
Yes, because he wasn't writing DQ, genius
>>69076421
Push through it bro, I had similar problems but once you get out of the shire the ride never ends. And you'll go back and re-read the shire parts because you realise how comfy it really was
>>69072956
i just make this face
>>69075906
The lyrics weren't even well researched. The tolkien insults sound like something a movie-fag would throw out.
>>69078543
Yeah I was memeing but in all honesty I see your point, but what matters to me is the final product, The Hobbit and Roverandom are fare more engaging than LotR to me, mainly because he doesn't fuck around too much with the universe he created, I don't really care about that.
A dear friend of mine is an expert of ancient languages and explained to me pretty much how Tolkien worked, gotta say it's pretty impressive but while on the one hand I'm impressed on the other I just can't stomach lotr
>>69072244
those are oretty bad. I'm not even black, but white people, let alone nerds, can't rap for shit, it's like they think rappinf is talking fast and screaming. And this series in particular always feel highly forced, and never rhyme.
>>69078692
OK, how that nullifies the criticism? Just because he was aiming at something else that doesn't mean he should get a pass from writing shitty characters, his story may be enough to overcome the shitty characters but it doesn't serve as a reflection towards that criticism.
>>69073056
Let's ignore the fact that LoTR came first, and is a major inspiration of almost EVERY fantasy series after it.
Do you know the shit JR Tolkien did to make Lord of the Rings? He made THE ELVISH FUCKING LANGUAGE
A NUANCED LANGUAGE
WITH FUCKING PARTIAL IMPERFECT TENSE
A GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT, COHERENT LANGUAGE
AND ON THE BASIS OF THAT LANGUAGE, AND SEVERAL OTHER FUCKING LANGUAGES, HE MADE THE HOBBIT
YES
HE WROTE THE LANGUAGE BEFORE THE FUCKING STORY
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_constructed_by_J._R._R._Tolkien
BEFORE THE FUCKING PREQUEL STORY TO THE LORD OF THE RINGS, HE WROTE A LANGUAGE
HE WROTE A FUCKING GIGANTIC BACKSTORY, TOO
WITH GODS, AND DEMONS, AND ANGELS, AND SHIT THAT MAKES THE THEOGENY LOOK LIKE AMATEUR HOUR
AND ONLY THEN
ONLY AFTER CREATING SEVERAL FUCKING LANGUAGES
DID HE WRITE THE PREQUEL
YES
THE FUCKING PREQUEL
TO THE LORD OF THE RINGS
AND HERE YOU ARE
YOU FILTHY, FUCKING PLEBIAN
TRYING TO TELL ME THAT TENZIN INFO DUMPING A CORNY COMIC BOOK VILLAIN BACKSTORY
IS THE SAME CALIBER OF WRITING
AS THE MAN
WHO MADE
SEVERAL
FUCKING
LANGUAGES
KILL YOURSELF
SERIOUSLY
KILL YOUR FUCKING SELF
SOMEONE PUTS EFFORT INTO SOMETHING AND CREATES A MASTERPIECE, AND YOU SEE IT THE SAME AS THE SHIT A 9-5ER SPEWED OUT IN A WRITER'S ROOM
>>69072956
Same here. I have a friend who's normie as fuck and shows me Pewdiepie/Keori/Leafy videos and I have to pretend to chuckle or touch my nose to hide my mouth as I'm cringing at his godawful fucking videos. He's fucking 19 too.
>>69078521
If you can't fathom the significance and scale of it I pity you.
What does the RR stand for. They aren't railroads. The books are Really Retarded but I'm sure that wasn't the intention.
>>69072244
>youtube
No thanks.
>>69077824
ever heard about style?
>>69072424
Dont.
>>69072956
99% of people who force you to watch youtube videos have terrible senses of humor
>>69078866
Because it's retarded. You don't pick up fucking Frankenstein if you want a romance story. I'm just saying, there's a million books out there and not every great book will please everybody. That's just how it goes.
>>69073443
read through his letters, his actual personal prose is wonderful
I would suggest letter #131, it's about
>>69072424
What in the fuck is this garbage? The WW1 trench thing is completely and totally wrong. First of all, Tolkien was an officer and would not have carried a rifle. I also think he was a logistics officer or something, so he would not have been on the frontline. Yeah, he took part in the Somme offensive but he didn't actually fight in it. He was more like a rear support guy.
Also, that rifle looked like a 1903 Springfield and would not have been what a British rifleman would've carried anyway.
Who watches this shit? Also, that's not the type of pipe Tolkien has in every single picture where he has a pipe. He has like an Irish Dunhill or something like that. The pipe's stem isn't curved.
>>69073443
His prose is comfy af.
>>69072424
Oh, and I don't believe he described the hobbits as having hairy feet but I may be very wrong about that. I could be confusing it with the fact that he never described them as having large feet and that was all artist interpretation (save for the Proudfoots). Could seriously be wrong about that though.
>>69079017
Again that isn't THE FUCKING POINT. You are dismissing criticism because "THAT ISN'T THE POINT" is fucking absurd as hell. I can get the defensiveness but the real answer would be that Tolkien took a choice to make his characters feel like robots in order to tell a greater story than the individuals in it. I get it, in fact it is criticism that dawned on me over the years since I loved TLOTR as a teenager but got away from it over the years to the point of thinking that the book is highly overrated, specially with twats like you that can't take criticism over shit that is obvious as all hell if you have read more books than JUST TLOTR.
>>69078878
>>69079103
Oh really. Mister literary man has some oh so valuable critique for the guy that shaped fantasy in the modern world. What's his crits?
>muh characters
Darn, that's some solid crit right there. Tolkien must be rolling in his grave laughing right now. Oh, but it doesn't end there. Mister literary man has more projecting, and keeps missing the point. So Tolkien set out to write this thing, achieved it, and after you read... how many books, years later, you realize.... hey wait a minute... this shit is overrated! Yeah! After decades and one of the most successful film series of all time, it's just overrated. Everyone else is stupid but me! And for the record, I've probably read more books than you will in a lifetime so fuck off. Lotr isn't perfect but you're being retarded right now.
>>69073401
Rowling did it to appeal to male readers.
>>69072244
Is that really J.R.R. Tolkien on the right? I'm ashamed to say I don't think I've ever seen a picture of the man. Damn, he's like the very definition of a gentleman and patrician.
>>69079197
WOW you need some reality check. Also I am talking about being overrated precisely because you think the characters in TLOTR are actually anything but souless avatars that do the shit the plots make them to do with some basic personality traits put in them.
But go on defend them for whatever retarded reason you think they are actually good.
>>69079031
Oh whoops, he was a signals officer.
>>69078932
Impressive but irrelevant.
Maybe Tolkien should have put as much work into his characters as he did writing fictitious languages
>>69079273
Your so called critisim is still retarded, retard. The fact you think your opinion is so valuable because you've read like what? 50 books? I'll be generous, 200? Tolkien knew what he was doing and you probably haven't even read more than the hobbit and lotr.
>>69079416
Not that guy, but
>Appeal to authority
Weak argument
>>69079416
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA. Again thought to defend something that is indefensible and you have to come to attack the guys that are criticizing your fucking bible or something.
Tolkien did a lot of right things, but his characters aren't part of it, all of them were absolute garbage with the exception of 2-3 characters in his entire output of books.
>you're a pirate you even stole my R.R.
>>69079495
I already said that not every book will appeal to everyone, even great books. Not everyone loves Shakespeare for example even if he was a god in writing.
>>69076421
The Council of Elrod brings tears to my eyes every time.
>This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it?
>>69078878
>>69080476
>>/imgur/
>>69076234
no, it doesn't. All the information they spew is basic information any non-retarded seventh grader should know.
>>69078229
Bilbo offers to go to fucking Mordor with the ring like its NBD
>Boromir looked in surprise at bilbo, but the laughter died on his lips when he saw that the others regarded the old hobbit with great respect.
This is lifeless writing?
>>69080552
Almost as if they're aiming it at teenagers and the general public, not filling it with jokes and references only a small bunch of autists will understand
>>69079031
>Tolkien was an officer and would not have carried a rifle
No he carried a revolver you utter fucking retard and stop trying to seem like less of a moron by pretending you know anything about rifles, you have no idea about anything. He fought in the trenches throughout the Great War, whatever post junior officers were originally meant for their losses were so high that even medical officers had to fight directly and he commanded men personally and fought in several assaults during the Somme where most of his friends were killed.
>On one occasion I spent the night with the Brigade Machine Gun Officer and the Signals Officer in one of the captured German dugouts
Don't flatter yourself that he was such a coward as you or your antecedents
>>69074277
/thread
![giphy[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/NpAYsA1.gif "giphy[1].gif")
>>69072956
>mfw somebody shows me react or leafyishere videos
>>69079234
Kek, these are just costumes.
This is how he actually looks like.
>>69081181
I can tell you for a fact that wasn't an Enfield though because I have one from WW1 sitting right next to me.
I legitimately think you need to calm down though, and I did do some research after I made that post and corrected it with signals. I never said he was a coward, but he didn't do any fighting himself. I doubt he ever fired his weapon (like most men), honestly.
He got trench fever from lice, and then was sent back to England to recuperate before his battalion was wiped out almost.
Calm down, lad.
>>69081276
>>69074277
Yall know this thread is about a youtube vid where people pretend to be the said authors in a rap battle, right?
>>69072244
Tolkien literally fought in the trenches of WWI. The only thing RR ever fought for was his space at the buffet line.
>>69078878
more like Bored of the Rings. amirite?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWjt6LGhHsI
>>69077898
>His writing is far too complicated at times when it really shouldn't be
Heaven forbid you read something from Clark Ashton Smith.
>>69072244
GRRM doesn't even measure up to Robert E. Howard much less Tolkien.
Even making this comparison gives GRRM way too much credit. He's not even on the same level.
http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/george-r-r-martin-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140423?page=4
>Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?
>The war that Tolkien wrote about was a war for the fate of civilization and the future of humanity, and that’s become the template. I’m not sure that it’s a good template, though. The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3110466/Game-Thrones-creator-defends-rape-scenes-Author-says-dishonest-boring-leave-sexual-violence.html
>'But if you’re going to write about war, and you just want to include all the cool battles and heroes killing a lot of orcs and things like that and you don’t portray [sexual violence], then there’s something fundamentally dishonest about that.
How can one man be so based?
>>69081796
Is Martin really so incapable of understanding that Tolkien wasn't writing historical fiction?
>>69081538
>Frooodoooooo of the niiiiiine fingerssss....and the ring of doooooooooooooom
>>69081796
what a fucking hack
>>69072781
they're literally all 12
>>69081796
>tolkien is a hack because his children's fantasy novels did have people getting raped
>Dillane, 58, does not have to watch for much longer as he confirmed that his character Stannis Baratheon, who appeared to meet a sticky end at the hands of Brienne of Tarth in the series five finale, is dead "as far as I know".
>Asked what he got out of Game of Thrones, he replied: "Money."
>Asked if he got any professional or personal satisfaction from the series, he reportedly said: "Er, no."
kek, even based Dillane can recognize hack writing.
Tolkien and Martin are simplistic compared to P. K. K. Rosenthal's Toranda Saga
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIy_uLF6xI8
>>69081916
I think Martin let the success of the first ASOIAF books get to his head and now he's just a cunt.
The next book will be as bad as the new season of the show.
>>69081796
>your philosophical/theological narrative consisting of largely symbolic characters and plot points isn't realist/materialist enough
>THERE'S SOMETHING FUNDAMENTALLY DISHONEST ABOUT YOUR ORCS NOT RAPING PEOPLE
Is GRRM actually fucking retarded? Also:
>a fat mangina lecturing a WWI veteran on the horrors of war
Top fucking kek. What a fucking hack.
>>69077898
>He blatantly copes things from Greek mythology texts
That's not true, would have been an actual argument if you had said Germanic but even then they're more homages then actual copies.
