Question for /tv/. Was the world depicted in V for Vendetta really that bad?
>>69046817
Yeah. No rights, shit jobs for shit pay, constantly under the threat of imprisonment, or worse.
shit sucked.
>>69046837
That's the thing, almost non of it was shown. Sure there was an authoritarian government but the daily life seemed fine; bars were full, the elderly seemed like in good care, homes had everything they needed, the streets were clean and so on.
>>69046966
North Korea looks pretty great too
>>69047184
North Korea is a failed state where they can barely feed their own citizens, struggle without foreign help and has vast poverty, non of which the England in the movie has.
>>69046817
>the scene where the gay guy talks about how much he loves Islam and resents the government for banning it
Y tho
But it was out for gay people!yfw you realize Wachowski were mentally ill all along
>>69047340
Exactly, I never understood that.
>>69047349
Who?
>>69047340
in 2005 we still gave islam the benefit of the doubt, after another decade of terrorism pretty much everyone quietly acknowledges it's a toxic ideology.
>>69047288
None of which was SHOWN in the movie. That's my point.
>>69046817
High chancellor did nothing wrong. I would've vanned the guy who did that terrible late night """comedy""" sketch too.
We saw a few seconds of generic conservative talking points and were reminded several times there were no gays or Muslims, truly a hell on earth.
>>69047464
We saw the bigger picture and things looked fine, why should we add imaginary things to an alreadyvmad movie?
>>69046837
>shit jobs for shit pay
Not shown anywhere in the movie. And anyway V was bullshitting about the whole virus being made by the government. It was even revealed later on that he was bullshitting. Movie actually ends with V getting shot by Creedy and his men, everything else is his dying dream. That's why all there's all those dead people infront of Parliament.
>>69047508
>no gays or muslims
And... You imply this is a "good" thing?
In the comic it shows a secret policeman torturing and killing a random innocent because he felt frustrated over a fight he had with his wife. Also the Evie character has to resort to prostitution because her factory job doesn't pay her enough to afford food. Also the archbishop rapes children.
>>69048192
Each and every one of the example you said can be found today in most Western countries.
>>69046817
In the film it's basically just a whiter/more fascist version of 00's UK.
>>69048192
In the comic Norsefire seizes control after the government collapses due to the effects of a limited nuclear exchange between the US and USSR (i.e. flooding south-eastern England and famines), and it's pretty clear that the economy is in a shit shape.
>>69048394
>In the film it's basically just a whiter/more fascist version of 00's UK.
So why is it bad?
>>69048294
That's kind of the point.
It's like a smilie.
>>69049506implying I implied it was a bad thing
>>69049695
>It's like a smilie.
:^)a glib facsimile.
>>69049695
>>69049762
Kek
So can we all classify that movie as a leftist propaganda?
it is probably impressive to the mind of the average fascist or nazi, given that they are easily impressed by leather uniforms and geometric symbols and long meaningless speeches and attacking people who cant defend themselves
in reality as shown in the film it was a corrupt oppressive shithole, much like nazi Germany itself
>>69049891
Wasn't it written by two fag brothers who later had their cocks cut off?
Yeah I'd say it's a safe bet.
Alan Moore hates it I feel it was just as shitty as his book just in a different way.
>>69046817
>Implying a religious conservative dictatorship can ever happen
>>69046817
>it's an "alt-righters look favorably upon fascism" episode
>>69049962
>given that they are easily impressed by leather uniforms and geometric symbols and long meaningless speeches and attacking people who cant defend themselves
Sounds like your average Guy Fawkes mask owner
>>69047525
>>69047464
things that were shown:
1. deliberate misrepresentation of the US (begging for aid, etc)
2. people being kidnapped for protesting the government or being gay or being muslim. I don't remember if there was any racism.
3. completely government-run media which consistently lied
4. fake (real) outbreaks of diseases to make people money
5. centers where people were starved and imprisoned and experimented on in grotesque ways.
6. State-run religion
7. constant monitoring by vans
8. dictatorship
9. enforced curfews
10. secret police who had complete jurisdiction and could rape as they pleased without repurcussions
is that enough? Do you want me to go on? Living in this version of britain would be awful and worse in every way than todays first world countries.
So just shut the fuck up about this 'it would be so great to live in a dictatorship' bullshit
>>69047415
back then most muslim's were 2nd gen and mostly kept to themselves as they knew their religion was whack.
nowadays everyone else gets a funny look for giving you a funny look when you bring up your religion.
i would feel more pressured in a social situation to get my love for muslims across than i would love for christians. i unironically have friends who will berate me for dissing muslims, but play along when it's christians.
islam was used as an example of "DUDE FREE SPEECH LMAO" and would probably still be used as a the example today.
when are we going to start getting films that promote free speech through criticism of an idea or religion.
>>69049962
>in reality as shown in the film it was a corrupt oppressive shithole, much like modern Britain itself
Fixed
>>69050122
>2016
>visiting fagbart
Why do NEET neckbeards think they'll end up anywhere but the gas chambers in a fascist society?
>>69046966
The movie wasn't about overthrowing a corrupt government.
The whole point of the movie was to set up poetic justice in the form of vengeance. It explored power dynamics and what it means for an idea to hold weight. The government in power was bad, yes, but they didn't need to show us how bad they were because the government itself was more or less accessory to the plot. The focus was on how power is esxchanged between V, Evee, and the people V killed.
>>69050201
why would they? they're the perfect citizen, never protests, isolates themselves from others and are docile as fuck
>>69050201
if you're so plugged in to life outside why do these threads trigger you?
>>69049962
Just because you disagree with them doesn't make their speeches meaningless
>>69049988
The comic was actually somewhat even-handed in its politics, as much as it could be being written by who it was written by.
>>69050358
But anon, I don't like cuckoldry. So what does Nazism offer for me?
>>69046817
The movie? Not really.
The comic? Yep.
The cultural changes in the movie fucking destroyed the entire point.
>>69050397
lol, what. The movie was actually much more even handed. Moore is a fanatically anti-fascist anarchist who flirts with marxism.
People think it's even-handed because it shows V doing more brutal things, oblivious that Moore is somewhat okay with "greater good" logic.
>>69050408
>>69050374
>n-no, I'm not the one triggered by a blatant /pol/bait thread it's the fucking stormfaggots ruining /tv/!!111!
>>69050099
I hate to break it to you but the modern UK has half of those things at least.
>1. deliberate misrepresentation of the US (begging for aid, etc)
Current UK does this with other countries all the fucking time.
>2. people being kidnapped for protesting the government or being gay or being muslim. I don't remember if there was any racism.
I don't even see how this is a bad thing to be honest.
3. completely government-run media which consistently lied
What is the BBC?
>4. fake (real) outbreaks of diseases to make people money
You mean like how western governments always hype up shit like swine flu, zika, ebola, sars, etc etc.
5. centers where people were starved and imprisoned and experimented on in grotesque ways.
You are right that the UK doesn't do this on their own soil, but you are a naive fool if you don't think they export people to shit holes like Yemen to do this
>6. State-run religion
The Church of England ring a bell? I don't see any problem here, people seem to be just fine with it.
>7. constant monitoring by vans
London has security cameras everywhere and there are vans that go around neighborhoods checking to make sure you have paid your TV license.
>9. enforced curfews
They have this in certain parts of the UK.
>10. secret police who had complete jurisdiction and could rape as they pleased without repurcussions
Don't even get me started on this.
>>69050099
>1. deliberate misrepresentation of the US (begging for aid, etc)
We don't know if it is true or not.
>2. people being kidnapped for protesting the government or being gay or being muslim. I don't remember if there was any racism.
In many cases the protests are a sponsored by outside groups (see Ukraine and Libya), gay propaganda should be banned and a country with no Muslims isba great country.
>3. completely government-run media which consistently lied
How is this different then privet media that constantly lies? (Vice, Vox, BBC and others)
>4. fake (real) outbreaks of diseases to make people money
It was to stabilize the country and get rid of unwanted groups
>5. centers where people were starved and imprisoned and experimented on in grotesque ways.
It was before the events of the movie
>6. State-run religion
Yeah so?
>7. constant monitoring by vans
Good
>8. dictatorship
Good
>9. enforced curfews
Good
>10. secret police who had complete jurisdiction and could rape as they pleased without repurcussions
We don't knwonif they had those rights, all we know is that some did, doesn't mean it was legal
>>69048106
JIDF pls
>>69046817
Since most people on 4chan are Nazis: No.
>>69050429
The movie was basically an anti-GOP hatchet job. The comic at least humanized some of the fascist characters.
>>69050456
really? what's good about not being able to leave your house? what if you have a fucking stroke?
>>69050429
>lol, what. The movie was actually much more even handed
You what?
In the comic Norsefire is implied to be the only thing keeping society from regressing into further chaos, and V is a clearly-unhinged fanatic that thinks societal collapse is a justifiable side-effect of attaining his idea of an anarchic society.
In the movies it's generic V-the-resistance-fighter = good, Norsefire-the-fascists = evil power-hungry whackjobs that enjoy being evil
>>69050496
Also the comic gives fascist ideology more of a fair shake than just equating it with American conservativism. It's obvious where Moore's sympathies are, but the movie is so obtuse.
Movie is a shit version of the story that makes everything obviously black and white, with clear bad guys and goods guys, so that the audience doesn't have to think.
>Yfw you realize we have created the modern Anarchist-Communist group on this website masturbating over this anti right-winged movie together.
If I could turn back time
>>69050429
Are you fucking nuts? The movie was ridiculously more one-sided. The villains were more cartoonish and V was way more glorified.
>>69049962
>and attacking people who cant defend themselves
u wot m8? The muslims and gays are winning, yurope is finished.
>>69050429
I bet you think either Rorsharch or Ozy was the unironic hero of Watchmen.
>>69050201
Because I'm willing to die for a perfect united Germanic Europe.
>>69049962
/thread
>>69046817
>"No gays? No Muslims? Awesome! I bet cucks would be so triggered if I said they were the good guys"
>>69050844
>I think fascists are cool
>anyone that disagrees with me is a cuck or SJW that should be culled
>but yeah you're the edgy one
>>69050694
But Veidt WAS the hero of Watchmen. He fucking saved the world.
>>69046817
There are people right now in this thread who seriously think life in a police state is good and enjoyable.
>>69050964
Well when I played Civ 4 I used to make my civilization a police state.
>>69049962
>Can't defend themselves
How many National-Socialists, volkisch, pan-Germanics, fascists or alt-righters have you seen lately doing anything significant, how many do you know outside of 4chan?
Now how many sandcoons have you seen blowing up buildings and people, homosexuals getting a right to marry, leftists gaining large political leverage promoting immigration to increase their voting base, trannies getting world wide acknowledgement and politicians getting slantered for saying things that we all secretly think?
We're in the minority here friend, to the outside world we're the most dangerous group out there, people pretty much accept radical leftists but radical right-winged people like us are constantly monitored and kept to a small easily manageable level with extreme violence by radical leftists.
I have to keep my opinion to myself in fear of being completely rejected by most people that I know, I've seen it happen before and I was only saying we should change the way we look at immigration.
>Germany a shithole
The German economy actually took a huge boost, granted it was a war economy so it's not exactly fair.
Nazi Germany was a command economy and a free market economy at the same time, much like we have today.
They also had a welfare state, the best one to have ever existed to be exact.
In any case to most of us Hitler or Nazi Germany are not an example, we can learn from these mistakes and do a better job.
But I don't see that job happening very soon so I comfort myself with the fact that I'll be dead before Europe is entirely fucked.
>>69050694
No, because Rorschach was conservative (which Moore despises) while Veidt was meant to be Soviet-style social engineering which he also hates.
Moore's ideal man would be Nestor Makhno, the IRA, or Bukharin probably.
>>69050985
thank goodness we don't have you sad excuses for nazis anywhere near power. I hope this keeps up forever.
>>69050964
It is if you agree with those in power.
>>69050496
Lol, no they weren't more likable. They were shown to be more pathetic. The dictator in the comic is a sexually inept insecure manlet who can only get it up banging his computer.
Not unlike real nazi's mind you, but Moore wasn't trying to make them likable. He was mocking nazism.
>>69050964
if it means killing or kicking Jews out along with niggers I'm all for it
>>69050526
The comics didn't rely imply this. It was propaganda meant to justify Norsefire's hold on power.
Moore was at that time an anarcho-communist, V was the response of the oppressed lower class to fascism. Even IF Norsefire was maintaining order, it still had no right to and collapse was preferable.
>>69051068
Humanized doesn't equal likeable. At least one of the fascist characters expressed genuine remorse, the doctor lady. I think she was in both the movie and the comic, though.
>>69051062
Shoo neckbeard nobody cares about your triggering
>>69047340
Stephen Fry being BTFO was the best scene in the movie. That's how America should treat faggots.
>>69051118
She was.
>>69051144
But you're a faggot too. You're not actually fooling anyone you know.
>>69051118
The two "sympathethic" fascists in the comic are the doctor and Finch, both of which are shown sympathethically in the movie as well
Adam Susan (Sutler in the movie) was shown to be a evil genius/master planner who was still ultimately a coward when faced with death in the movie. In the comics, he's emotionally and sexually insecure man with a massive inferiority complex which he channels into his fascism and abuses of power. He literally is a man-child and needs a mother figure, which the computer provides.
It's a stereotypical villain vs mockery issue, not showing one or the other more human.
>>69051105
V was definitely not meant to be a straight hero.
It was comparing the two extremes, not good vs. evil.
>>69051173
>If I say enough maymays they won't know I'm a neckbeard
Too late anon, your beard might as well be coming out of the computer screen. Remember that it's not because of Jews or niggers that you're socially awkward and repulsive, it's because God hates you.
>>69051105
>The comics didn't rely imply this
It's not propaganda, the backstory about the nuclear war etc comes from Evey retelling her childhood. The only reason the UK isn't quite as fucked as the rest of Europe is that a Labour government basically tells America to fuck off and take its nuclear stockpile with it.
>Even IF Norsefire was maintaining order, it still had no right to and collapse was preferable.
Well considering the people don't get a choice with either Norsefire's rise or V destroying the Norsefire regime...
>>69051173
This is /pol/'s version of trigglypuff I see.
>>69051173
Love it when triggered 14 year olds just resort this shit. If you're triggered, you know you're not obligated to reply, right? We're on anonymous Belgium Waffle forum
>>69051187
The point of showing his insecurity WAS to humanize him, not to mock him. It makes him an actual character instead of a generic obstacle of the "hero" (which V wasn't supposed to be) to defeat.
>>69046817
Not really, seemed pretty good in the movie. On the other hand, in the comic it was broken, dysfunctional and impoverished. Plus in both regards free thought was oppressed, which is always a bad thing. But the movie seems to show that life was basically exactly the same as it is in contemporary England.
What pisses me off is the extent of which people criticizes right wing totalitarian states but pretend left wing totalitarian states don't even exist. And of course, thinking one thing makes you a FASCIST BIGOT JUST LIKE NORESFIRE. Moore tried doing a 1984 but ended up just resorting to a stereotypical right wing Nazi state because it's lmao easier to pick on conservatives 4 bein ray-cists lmao.
But at least in interviews Moore concedes that he tried making V a morally ambiguous anarchist who was using violence and dysfunction to perhaps ultimately destroy a functioning society.
>>69051049
You fuckwit, come on at least try to have a decent fucking response.
>>69047184
Have you even looked at it? Pyongyang is its most stable and even it keeps its lights off most of the time and their food is fucking terrible.
Every other city and town is worse off than most fictional dystopias.
>>69051261
You're retarded.
>>69051105
>Even IF Norsefire was maintaining order, it still had no right to and collapse was preferable.
Anarchist pls go
>>69051261
It was a subversion of Nazi hyper-masculinity rhetoric. And a nod to Hitler, who had a lot of insecurities and sexual issues IRL.
>>69051265
Every time you spell a word in caps, your neckbeard gets another hair.
>>69051323
Why the fuck are you validating him by giving him responses
Report and move on
>>69051287
Moore is an anarcho-communist, I'm repeating what he believes. Not what I do.
>>69051049
I'm not a National-Socialist, I'm part of the völkisch movement, my branch particulary believes in racial Paganism and a pan-Germanic unity.
What's your political afiliation?
>>69051347
Tendies don't count as currency in the real word, /pol/neck
>>69047340
He didn't once say he loves Islam, he said the writing of the Quaran was beautiful.
>>69051266
>What pisses me off is the extent of which people criticizes right wing totalitarian states but pretend left wing totalitarian states don't even exist. And of course, thinking one thing makes you a FASCIST BIGOT JUST LIKE NORESFIRE. Moore tried doing a 1984 but ended up just resorting to a stereotypical right wing Nazi state because it's lmao easier to pick on conservatives 4 bein ray-cists lmao.
This is a nonsense criticism. Yeah, it could of been a left-wing totalitarian state, but it didn't have to be, either, and there's nothing wrong with the fact that it's a right-wing one.
>>69051292
Anything you read about Hitler's sex life is guaranteed to be propaganda.
>>69051448
spare me the butthurt. He was a autistic manlet who killed himself like the failure he was.
>>69051351
What Moore believes =/= What he intended for the story to suggest =/= What the story does suggest
Moore can and has written stories about politics that aren't saying his views are correct.
>>69051448
This, it's also easily explainable.
The German Worker's Party refrained from any form of intercourse to show total dedication to their cause.
All the bullshit about him being gay or having erectile problems are just propaganda, he just didn't worry with that shit.
>>69051448
Eh, I'm pretty left and have to admit I think a lot of that shit's propaganda.
>>69050647
yeah, go back in time to two years ago when this website became full of fascist boot-lickers
>>69051530
>The German Worker's Party refrained from any form of intercourse to show total dedication to their cause.
And you bought that?
>>69051546
>Implying his wasn't a huge improvement over the anarcho-commies we used to have here
>Implying 4chan made me this way
I was raised a national-socialist friendo.
>>69051488
Now you're just being ridiculous.
A far-right dictatorship is unfair for alienating conservatives, but a far-left dictatorship wouldn't do the same for liberals?
>>69051488
>The fact that it could've been is what makes it a legitimate criticism.
You must spend a lot of time criticizing things because you could always complain about how it's not different
>>69051585
*tips stallhelm*
>>69051572
There's nothing to buy you retard, read a goddamn book or two or stop posting about stuff you know nothing about.
They were socially conservative, premarital sex, prostitution, pornography, sexual vice, smoking, drinking, use of cosmetics to promote promiscuity, clothing to increase sexual attraction were all strongly rejected.
>>69051488
Didn't he write the story during the Thatcher-era? It could have been a fresh influence.
>>69051705
Oh so you did buy it
>>69051726
That was exactly the influence. A right-wing totalitarian state in Britain was a lot more plausible at the time than a left-wing one, and so it would resonate with readers more.
>>69051740
Atleast try writing a worthy counter-argument
>>69051764
Alan Moore is a radical leftist, that's all you need to know.
>>69051839
Right and left are practically meaningless terms.
>>69051862
It does, you can clearly see the anti right-winged anti conservative and anti Christian commentary.
>>69046817
Yes, that's why the Transexual Jews who made it used the Cross of Lorraine
>>69051926
I only see anti-censorship, anti-secret police, and anti-murdering people for gayness. If you consider being "pro" for those things to be the right-wing, conservative, or christian stance, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.
>>69051773
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hypocrisy
>>69049891
It pretty much was, so was the book. The Movie Norsefire-ran England really doesn't look that bad as they try to make it out to be though.
>>69049962
>in reality as shown in the film it was a corrupt oppressive shithole
But it wasn't shown in the film.
>>69051266
>>>69046817 (OP) #
Not really, seemed pretty good in the movie. On the other hand, in the comic it was broken, dysfunctional and impoverished. Plus in both regards free thought was oppressed, which is always a bad thing. But the movie seems to show that life was basically exactly the same as it is in contemporary England.
That's exactly my point, life seemed pretty okay in the movie; no one was hungry, the elderly were taken care off, the bars were full and technology seemed to be pretty advanced
>>69050099
>1. deliberate misrepresentation of the US (begging for aid, etc)
Most likely propaganda, if not remember this is an alternate future timeline.
>2. people being kidnapped for protesting the government or being gay or being muslim. I don't remember if there was any racism.
Nothing wrong here. Britain should be about British, not even memeing.
>3. completely government-run media which consistently lied
That's what the BBC literally is though.
>4. fake (real) outbreaks of diseases to make people money
Do you realise that St Mary's Virus wasn't the government? That it was just V bullshitting? It's even shown like that in a scene in the movie, where the Chief Inspector figures out he's being bullshitted. No idea what was up with the complete GoT-style character reversal at the ending though.
>5. centers where people were starved and imprisoned and experimented on in grotesque ways.
Already a case of this, just not done on imported shitskins but ones that are already there.
>6. State-run religion
Church of England is already a thing, the difference is it isn't cucked in the movie like it is in RL. It wasn't that cucked in RL at the time either though.
>7. constant monitoring by vans
This happens in any western country.
>8. dictatorship
It's never shown that Norsefire has cancelled all elections.
>9. enforced curfews
>10. secret police who had complete jurisdiction and could rape as they pleased without repurcussions
Both happen in every modern western country.
>>69048106
Here's your (You)
>>69046817
It was fucking terrible.
>access only to subpar food, even by the well-off
>state monitored on any and all mediums
>state wide curfew
>rationing of water
>no ability to excel
>no vertical class or economic movement
>military hegemony
>no ability to travel
>no law to protect the citizenry
Anyone who says, "It wasn't that bad" must think that Zimbabwe or the Norks is a perfectly good way to live your life.
>inb4 SJW shit
Gays and minorities in the movie were used as scapegoats to allow for marginalization of ALL peoples in society. See above. If you don't think that losing all of those rights or abilities is anathema to your very existence, then by all means continue to be a deluded mongrel.
>>69051351
That's funny because I remember an interview with him specifically mentioning that the comic is meant to be ambiguous and that while the art is black and white, the story is all about shades of gray. It's almost like you are going off assumptions
>>69052918
actually practically none of those happen in america
I have never seen a police van, we don't have an enforced religion, we haven't banned gays, we
and all the things shown in the movie are worse and more restrictive than the current state of britain
Also it's funny how you deny things that happened in the movie like the murders at saint marys despite it being confirmed by the propaganda guy on tv right before he died, and the diary of the woman.
It's like you'll deliberately ignore things that happened in the film in order to further your narrative
also the guy made all his money off the pharma from killing the disease outbreak from st marys. Did you watch a different movie or something?
>>69047340
Thats the entire point.
Hes a gay tv celebrity.
Hes literally "rebelling" like a child just to feel better about his banned sexuality. Its an act of defiance just to fuck with the powers. That and the fact that he thinks hes untouchable.
>>69053070
>access only to subpar food, even by the well-off
Isn't shown anywhere in the movie
>state monitored on any and all mediums
Nothing wrong here
>state wide curfew
Yes so?
>rationing of water
Never shown
>no ability to excel
Mo proof of that
>no vertical class or economic movement
Isn't shown either
>military hegemony
That's a great thing
>no ability to travel
Isn't shown either
>no law to protect the citizenry
Again, no proof of any of that.
>Gays and minorities in the movie were used as scapegoats to allow for marginalization of ALL peoples in society
Sounds like something we need to do today
>>69053212
>>access only to subpar food, even by the well-off
>Isn't shown anywhere in the movie
not even who you were chatting at but did you miss the butter conversation?
>>69053110
>actually practically none of those happen in america
I wasn't talking about America.
>Also it's funny how you deny things that happened in the movie like the murders at saint marys despite it being confirmed by the propaganda guy on tv right before he died, and the diary of the woman.
It confirms that there were camps for gays, niggers, etc and that they were piled up in there and experimented upon. A copy/paste still image from Auschwitz that they colored and used made it look like they were concentration camps, not testing facilities.
>also the guy made all his money off the pharma from killing the disease outbreak from st marys.
Doesn't mean he made the disease to cure it.
>Did you watch a different movie or something?
Did you? Did you miss out all of the detective's scenes or something?
>>69052918
>Deliberate misrepresention
Yes, to instill fear and empower the current government by showing, "See how bad you would have it if not for us!?" This is literally something that they do in the movie when it 347 days since the last 5th of November and the Chancellor tells their propaganda minister to step up the craziness.
>Nothing wrong here. Britain should be about British, not even memeing.
>implying gays can't be British
You're a stupid nigger.
>That's what the BBC literally is though.
No argument there, but that isn't a good thing when it is one of only a few avenues or media that exists.
>Do you realise that St Mary's Virus wasn't the government?
You interpreted that incorrectly. He pretended to be Rookwood, and told the Chief Inspector what happened so that it would put Kriegie on the defense and feed into his paranoia, which is exactly what V wanted. He only got pissed because he was being used and couldn't prove any of what V told him. V knew this is what happened though because of the diary, the conversation with the woman who CREATED THE VIRUS, and being a victim of their experimentation.
>Already a case of this, just not done on imported shitskins but ones that are already there.
Another non-issue.
>
Church of England is already a thing, the difference is it isn't cucked in the movie like it is in RL. It wasn't that cucked in RL at the time either though.
The difference between the two though is that the Church in this movie has actual governmental power.
>This happens in any western country.
War-driving is not the same as literally listening to every conversation at all times.
>It's never shown that Norsefire has cancelled all elections.
Yes it is. When Rookwood (V) is talking to the Chief Inspector, they won, and set up a military dictatorship.
>Both happen in every modern western country.
No it doesn't, and police rape is isolated and not state-sponsored.
>>69053249
>not even who you were chatting at but did you miss the butter conversation?
V is literally a dude in a freaky mask, do you think he goes to shop? The only way he can eat is to steal, and he decides to steal from the government. Rationing is mentioned but did you miss out the part where a World War happened, and America's in civil war? That wasn't just mentioned as government propaganda, it was brought up in that flashback with the lesbians. WW2 Britain rationed, was WW2 Britain a "fascist shithole" too? kek.
>>69053319
Only difference is that they haven't been at war for decades, this is confirmed when they talk about the Reclamation. They are rationing for no reason other than oppression of the lower classes (Russians), or because they have no resources (Norks). This is the same government that fucked up their water supply for a power play and then couldn't fix it (Three Waters).
>>69053319
so it is shown in the movie
>>69053274
>Yes, to instill fear and empower the current government by showing, "See how bad you would have it if not for us!?" This is literally something that they do in the movie when it 347 days since the last 5th of November and the Chancellor tells their propaganda minister to step up the craziness.
Civil war is actually going down in America though, and there was a low-yield world conflict that fucked everything up.
>>implying gays can't be British
I wasn't talking about gays, but shitskin muslims that culturally literally can't be British.
>V knew this is what happened though because of the diary, the conversation with the woman who CREATED THE VIRUS, and being a victim of their experimentation.
I'll have to rewatch it, but i'm pretty sure the diary noted there were experiments ala Auschwitz not plans for a falseflag 9/11 thing.
>War-driving is not the same as literally listening to every conversation at all times.
What do you think the NSA does?
>No it doesn't, and police rape is isolated and not state-sponsored.
It's not state-sponsored in this either.
They just focused too much on MUH GAYS without giving enough attention to the things that were really bad though they were present too. Focus more on the persecution of non-Christian religions, not just Muslims and everything else too.
>>69053267
>Doesn't mean he made the disease to cure it.
yes it does, that was the whole point
they were developing a disease and a cure. The pharma guy was the military head of the concentration camp at larkill. You just think it was a blind coincidence that he made millions off the pharmas?
>>69053606
yeah, ignoring the fact that gays and muslims are human beings and deserve human rights just as everyone else does
>>69053815
>Muslims
>deserving human rights
M8...
This movie SUCKED
>>69046817
Better than the Calipath of Britain
>>69053858
so you don't believe they are inherent? Where do you think human rights come from?
You know, the right to water, food, life, shelter, freedom
What makes you think you deserve these rights?
>>69054036
>Human rights
>A thing
>>69054114
lol, I almost wish a government would come and take your right to access the internet and live in your house so you truly feel the weight of that statement
>>69047415
>people from third world countries under constant warfare and constant exploitation by first world super powers
>blames a religion's ideology [1.6 billion people worldwide] for terrorism
truly you guys are the goyest of goys
>>69053447
>shitskin muslims that culturally literally can't be British
If they're born there, they're British. Get over it
>>69054036
>What makes you think you deserve these rights?
I don't blow up busses or support those who do it, I don't want to enforce religious laws, I don't force my culture on to others and of course I'm not a fifth column.
>>69054180
yeah but what makes you deserve them? since you don't deserve them just by being human
>>69054036
Invadors don't have rights
>>69054180
>>69054214
>/tv/ argues semantics about the fundamentals of ethics
you can skip to the end, nobody deserves anything, the universe doesn't owe you.
>>69054143
>right to access the internet
Tell me one country that has that right
>>69054180
>I don't force my culture on to others
>anyone who comes to my country must adopt my culture!
>>69054276
hmm you might have a point there
still, it is a privilege. Since you don't think the government shouldn't protect it I guess you'd be OK with it being taken
>>69054289
>moves to a country
>Wants that country too change it laws and culture to suit you
is not the same thing as:
>Being native to a country
>Wants immigrants to adapt to your countries culture
>>69054289
it's not forcing if they have an option not to come here, you know I'm all for not treating people like shit but damn islamic culture is a threat to our left wing society.
>>69054180
>I don't blow up busses or support those who do it
Really? Your government does it, and you support them. You might not want to think about it, but part of your tax dollars goes towards the deaths of innocents. The officials that won elections with YOUR support are the ones who perpetrate such actions.
>I don't want to enforce religious laws
This is supposed to be virtuous? What is the distinction between "religious laws" and other law?
>>69054289
>when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn't help, they pretended not to understand
>>69054349
>I guess you'd be OK
Never said that dumbass
>Constant curfews
>Vans will patrol the street listening to houses with super mics.
>Critisising the government will get you black bagged
But hey at least there's no faggots right?
>>69054352
>>69054354
It is still forcing your culture on others, regardless of the circumstances. The distinction is largely pointless; most people who immigrate, muslim or otherwise, preserve their culture but do not force it on others. Demanding that immigrants conform to your culture is not really a moral request.
>>69054400
>Unironically believing multiculturalism works
ITT: Reddit trying to fight based /pol/ and Norsefire.
>>69054423
Preservation of culture is a conservative value. If anything you should be in support of it
>>69054357
>What is the distinction between "religious laws" and other law?
religious laws are based on religion which not only panders to only one group but doesn't prioritise the public either.
secular laws are based at least somewhat on pleasing the public.
>>69054400
>morals
morals are bullshit there's no such thing, what you think is right is no more truthful than what anybody else thinks.
>>69054423
where's the race war, /pol/? Where's the people rioting in the streets? Where's the sharia law in britain?
Believe it or not multiculturalism does work, and has worked for hundreds of years. Look at 1900s US with the irish, chinese, blacks and whites
Race and cultural tensions are lower than they have ever been. You're the one who wants multiculturalism not to work, as it would justify your belief
>tfw he would have sent all of 4chan into camps and turned on the ovens
It's not that bad now that I think about it.
>>69054426
>/pol/
nah actually left wing, just realise that muslims by and large aren't the tolerant people we're told they are.
>>69051358
Nobody cares how you rationalize your traditionalist politics if they inevitably come to the same conclusion.
>>69054449
Peoplre should only preserve their culture in their native homeland.
Also multiculturalism leads to exlusion and alienation,
The immigrants lives in ghettos and their kids adopt American nigger/ghetto culture and comit crimes and becomes islamists.
>>69054451
>morals are bullshit there's no such thing, what you think is right is no more truthful than what anybody else thinks.
Then why are you trying to argue against muslim moral values? By your logic, you are no more right than they are
>religious laws are based on religion which not only panders to only one group but doesn't prioritise the public either
In a theocracy, they are one and the same.
>secular laws are based at least somewhat on pleasing the public
What world are you living in? Certainly not any consumerist western nation; our laws are about private considerations, not public interest
>>69054472
most non-white or non-nhristian groups in britain take on our culture, that isn't being seen with muslims, they don't mesh with the rest of the population, maybe they just haven't integrated or maybe it's incomparable with their religion. for most muslims it's only at work they meet non-muslims.
I wish they would integrate and modernise their religion and stop treating women and homosexuals like shit.
>>69051358
> paganism
So a retard divorced from reality then. Undoubtedly an American as well.
>>69054545
>Then why are you trying to argue against muslim moral values? By your logic, you are no more right than they are
you're right absolutely, I'm not saying they're fundamentally wrong I'm saying they're a threat to our way of life which we happen to enjoy.
>In a theocracy, they are one and the same.
untrue, laws are based on scripture, scripture can't be updated to be more progressive or less archaic very easily.
>our laws are about private considerations, not public interest
protecting individual's lawful rights is in the public interest.
>>69054472
>where's the race war, /pol/?
Hurrdurr if your against multiculturalism your a nazi
>Race and cultural tensions are lower than they have ever been
>This is what liberals believe
>>69050456
go back to your containment board /pol/
>>69055005
You have to go back. I fucking hate when GoT is around because it means the boards all get flooded with these Reddit faggots. It's literally what 90% of this thread is.
>>69046817
It was. It was even worse in the comics the state was in such shambles that they couldn't even justify their excesses with a tough on crime sentiment as Ireland had pretty much become a den of gangsters which that same government would eventually turn to bolster its police forces. The movie omitted that to its detriment.
why does reddit even come here?
>>69055024
what's the problem, can't handle different opinions ? /pol/ would be able to affirm all your views
>>69054532
>Peoplre should only preserve their culture in their native homeland
Easy to say, but rarely is a culture in danger if the vessel that contains it isn't threatened. Jews were forced to preserve their culture when they were expelled from their homeland; your opinion about the Jewish people aside, do you think they should let their culture be obliterated in the face of diaspora? Obviously Islam is not in the same situation, but your views on cultural preservation don't accurately reflect how a culture is threatened. And "native homeland" is subjective. If Native Americans were to multiply like rabbits and stage a rebellion, by your logic they would be justified in destroying American culture.
>>69054944
>laws are based on scripture
There is no difference to some religions, and that's a chicken and egg situation. Jewish law was written into scripture because, at the time, they were the same thing. Now the laws of Israel are based off Jewish scripture - but Israel is not a theocracy. Laws can absolutely be changed, and scripture can be "reformed" as we've seen with Judaism and Christianity.
>protecting individual's lawful rights is in the public interest
Not at all. Individual desire is not the same as the common good. "What I want" is not the same question as "What we need" [qt]. Privatism more often then not negatively impacts the welfare of the public (something that's immediately evident, for example, in US education, healthcare, public transportation etc...)
>>69055080
I have nothing against jews really. Nowadays they pretty much assimilates into my nations culture. they only keep their culture in their homes.
>If Native Americans were to multiply like rabbits and stage a rebellion, by your logic they would be justified in destroying American culture.
I wouldn't mind this happening. Europe for europeans
>>69055080
ok sure why don't you live under sharia law if you think it's basically fine
you can argue with them that they should modernise it and they'll definitely hear your view point because it's not like religious law only caters to that religion or anything
>Israel is not a theocracy
>as we've seen with Judaism and Christianity
it's not a religious law if it's not stemming from religion, holy hell is that not obvious
>Not at all
you're actually nuts if you don't think it's in the public's interest to protect their lawful rights.
>the common good
I didn't say shit about the common good I said public interest
>>69054472
Go back to the oven you jew cunt
>>69055207
It isn't *necessarily* in the public interest. It might be, but it might not be.
>it's not a religious law if it's not stemming from religion
Religion is a cultural system, and law is derivative of culture. In practice there is little difference between a religious law and otherwise. Your claim that religious law can't easily be changed isn't reflected in reality. Even in the strictest theocracies on the planet their religious law is modified to suit the government
>>69054400
>flooding the streets, spreading their religion, transforming the local demographics, architecture and food industry
>not forcing your culture on others
You know how I know you live in a white suburb?
>>69055207
you have it backwards though. the police exist to protect the public, not the individual. laws exist for the public good, not the private good. individuals very often get shafted for the public good, i.e. eminent domain
>>69055387
>transforming the local demographics
Yea I'm not sure you can really shit on people for that. You might as well bitch about them for simply existing. Not to mention that injecting their culture is part of the process of assimilation. Unless you have a problem with seeing a pizza shop in every american town
>>69055455
Foreign food is like the only good thing with multiculturalism but it ain't worth it
>>69055354
>it might not be
I know it's in my interest to have as many protective rights as possible
>isn't reflected in reality
well that's straight up bullshit you just have to look at saudi arabia and their archaic laws, religious laws are help back by the religion they're based around. secular law does not have that anchor. a secular society does not have that anchor.
a law that stems from scripture can not be updated, otherwise it would no longer stem from scripture. it's a tautology.
>>69055404
again, I said public interest.
I'm not talking about one vs many, I'm talking about the reason we have laws in the first place. we have them because it's mutually beneficial to outlaw murder and theft etc. etc.
>>69055005
Butbim not from /pol/
>>69055455
No, I have a problem with every restaurant using halaal meat to support immigrants who statistically rape the most kids, commit the most assaults and have the highest rate of unemployment out of any ethnic group in my country.
>>69055548
>it's a tautology
Did you mean to say something else?
>>69049891
It was against authoritarian regimes.
Both Stalin and Hitler were two sides of the same coin after all.
>>69050985
You seem triggered.
>>69055667
>I have a problem with businesses catering to more customers
Sounds like you have a problem with capitalism then
>>69055728
Norsefire wasen't authoritarian it was totalitarian.
>>69055234
Your salt feeds me, goyim
>>69055725
no. a religious law is a law that stems from religion in the same way a bachelor is an unmarried man.
it's true because it's within the definition.
>>69055754
Yes I do.
>libertarians
>>69055773
You do realise authoritarian shit leads to totalitarian shit, right?
>>69055754
Modern leftists make me cringe. They've become the very things they've sworn to destroy.
Centrism is now my only guiding light in a world of reactionaries
>>69055667
>halal meat
fuck don't get me started
all our meat has to be slaughtered by a muslim who also prays over it now
>>69055811
Your language is confusing though. "Stems from" does not usually mean "verbatim", which is what you sound like you're trying to say. Sharia is certainly derivative of religion but the actual tenets are hotly debated among Islamic scholars (which is why there are so many versions of it). Having a verbatim implementation of scripture really does not exist anywhere in the world, because the scripture is often contradictory and subject to interpretation and historical context.
For example, within sharia there are scholars who believe the penalty for apostasy ranges from absolutely nothing, to imprisonment, to forced conversion, to execution and everything in between. In its implementation, the actual punishment differs wildly within sharia nations. Thanks to the shitty, confusing nature of the hadiths no one is really sure what to do.
>>69055874
leftists? or just liberals?
there's very few hard lefties left, mostly we compare the centre ground liberals to the right wing and it makes them look like leftists.
>>69055874
Are you saying leftists want to destroy capitalism?
>>69055936
>which is what you sound like you're trying to say
so you've told me what I've said and you're now saying that you think I'm saying something else?
I'm not.
>the actual tenets are hotly debated among Islamic scholars (which is why there are so many versions of it). Having a verbatim implementation of scripture really does not exist anywhere in the world, because the scripture is often contradictory and subject to interpretation and historical context.
are you now talking about whole law systems. I'm talking about individual religious laws, and they certainly exist in the world.
>penalty for apostasy ranges from absolutely nothing, to imprisonment, to forced conversion, to execution and everything in between.
which would not happen in a secular law system, clearly you're now proving there is a "distinction between religious laws and other laws".
that's my initial point, there is a distinction to be made.
>>69055955
Centre ground liberals... So basically moderate lefties/ centrists?
>>69055973
The ones on my campus do, and want to introduce socialism.
I suppose I have left leaning friends, but in a world of identity politics it's hard to tell who's who anymore.
>>69050099
I was under the impression the US was in a bad way after a race war which is what allowed the fascist British to happen. Also nukes could have been involved.
>>69056154
well liberal is a weird vague term now that just seems to mean people who accept shit.
>>69056214
I think that was mostly propaganda, remember how they intensified it after the first attack
>>69056247
I thought it was an ironic joke, as """liberals"""" are nothing like they claim to be fighting against.
Much like stormfags I suppose
>>69056154
>want to introduce socialism
I can't speak for your campus obviously but I highly doubt that. They're probably social democratic and anti-consumerism, not anti-capitalist.
>quran is universally banned
no not really
>>69056252
Seems like a realistic thing to happen and would be pretty hard to cover up since the US could just send radio transmissions, satalites, boats, planes and everywhere else in Europe saying it's bullshit.
The UK isn't as far away from the rest of the world as north Korea. I'm pretty sure the US did take a fall which is what allowed this universe to happen.
>>69047340
He enjoyed it from an artistic standpoint. He liked the prose and illustrations.
>>69046817
There are massive quarantine areas outside of the city.
>>69047184
>North Korea looks pretty great too
>every authoritarian state is north korea
fuck off libertarian
>>69046817
Yes, they had to ration milk. I love milk.
I'm an ancap, so I'd rather no government at all, but if it came down to a choice I'd rather live in an authoritarian fascist state than in a totalitarian communist state.
>>69046966
That's because authoritarianism doesn't try to control every aspect of your life. You can still leave properly fascist countries. There are still aspects of your life not under their control. For all the propaganda that says otherwise, the truth is that places like this aren't in reality anywhere near as harmful as Communist nations. And a mistake that people make (besides the one that socialists make when they glorify properly fucked countries like North Korea and demonise fascist regimes like Mussolini's Italy despite the former having remarkably less freedom than the latter) is to group both fascism and communism together. Fascism works with natural human qualities. Communism attempts to force on people something that is so unnatural they won't obey unless murdered and imprisoned in the tens of millions.
>>69056296
I don't know where that guy is from, but I know here in Australia we have legitimate Socialist groups on university campuses. Marxists. It's not some "anti-consumerist democratic" group that is getting smeared.
>>69046817
I dont know, is being a floating head with floating hands bad?
