>entire problem could literally be solved by talking to each other before you shoot at each other
>claiming that stark "wouldn't believe" captain america when he said the winter soldier wasn't responsible for the bombings
>not believing a fellow avenger you've just undergone two entire wars with and instead deciding fighting him is a better option than trying to convince him
Is this the biggest plot hole of all time? Is this the worst movie of the decade?
Btw, why is every fucking nigger in this so unlikeable sans Falcon? That black panther nigger is fully retarded, who decided taking a nigger out of the jungle and making him a super hero was a good thing? Then fucking "war machine" whose only super power is using a shitty old iron man suit, fucks sake. Don Cheadle is a straight up fucking retard.
>>69012256
I thought Falcon was the only insufferable nog. I actually really like Don -- he's a boss.
Also your other points are moot. Sure you didnt mean to shitpost about BVS?
>>69012349
That's the funny thing, people criticise BvS for being stupid, then they come out and say Civil War was great. Civil war has all the same flaws.
War Machine and the Nigger Panther are both shithouse, gay as fuck characters and simply served as a device to annoy and enrage the viewer.
>>69012256
I find it hilarious that Downey Jr.'s repeatedly with his mask off and Cheadle isn't.
>>69012256
cap and tony never liked each other, after they fought as avengers they split up, tony chilled with bruce
Also, Tony's an asshole. So now, not really a plot hole.
>>69012421
Downey at least is a pretty good actor. There's really not much to see with Cheadle except his very well done "I am a nigger" face.
>So, you're the Spiderling. Crime-fighting Spider. You're Spider-Boy?
>S..S..Spiderman!
>Not in that onesie, you're not.
>It's not a onesie!
BRAVO
>>69012256
I understand /tv/ is a shit board and all you know about 4chan is from posts on 9gag and Tumblr but racism is only allowed on /b/ and /pol/ so please keep it there.
>>69012467
Tony did nothing wrong, cap is the nigger
>>69012505
Cap represents all that is just, moral, and good, while Tony represents ego, morality gone astray and selfishness.
>>69012505
this 2bh
>>69012505
Good goy, let the government sort everything out :)
>>69012256
agree OP
>>69012491
funny dialogue m80 :)
>>69012409
>same flaws
Which ones do they share? Because I'd say Civil War has its flaws, but they aren't the same as BvS.
>>69012256
>movie repeatedly points out how the personal stakes in this do not allow the protagonists to think straight
>somehow this is a plot hole
how about the hole in your head OP? it's a kids movie, if shit like this goes over your head, then you're a moron.
>>69014030
>>movie repeatedly points out how the personal stakes in this do not allow the protagonists to think straight
>>somehow this is a plot hole
This applies to BvS
>>69014030
just because the movie points this out doesn't make it any less retarded
>>69014121
Yep. Which is why the "why doesn't Superman just TALK to Batman" complaint was dumb (especially when Superman tries to talk to Batman).
>>69014141
>just because it makes sense doesn't mean it doesn't make sense
Huh?
>>69012256
Airport:
>TeamTony wants to capture TeamCap so they won't get gunned down by Thunderbolt Ross.
There was no talking to be done. Both teams had their objectives
Russia:
>Tony sees fully visual how his parents are slaughtered by bucky barnes.
>Cap tells him that he knew all along
>Tony snaps
>Cap tells him that Bucky was mind controlled
>Tony literally doesn't care anymore
>doesn't trust cap anymore
they were beyond reasoning
Please just go watch the movie faggot
>>69014030
It was done an a completely unrealistic way
>captain learns of a threat that will destabilise nations
>only mentions this once in passing at a chance meeting at the airport
>spends most time whining about family and shit
Also, I refuse to believe captain America would put his personal feelings before the law. It's totally out of character.
>>69014393
He spent Captain America 2 running from, hiding from, and fighting the law.
>>69014390
Tony in Russia is alright. Everything before that is stupid
>Tony caring about politicans
>Ross and Tony and Captain don't know what extenuating circumstances are
>>69014393
>Also, I refuse to believe captain America would put his personal feelings before the law. It's totally out of character.
that is his arc though. Not giving a fuck about orders anymore and instead doing what he deems right. Also valuing his own life.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2016/04/29/why-i-cried-at-captain-america-civil-war/
>>69014445
He was running from people who tried to capture him without telling why, without a warrant while he had done nothing wrong. Then when he found out SHIELD was infiltrated by HYDRA.
In Civil War he straight up tries to obstruct justice by saving someone suspected of bombing the UN.
Can we all agree that Bucky/Winter Soldier is a terrible and boring character? The movies didn't really do anything to make me care about him and his friendship with Cap
BVS was better, not even trolling.
>>69014568
He is my favorite, though.
Pretty cool fella.
>>69014568
he was a macguffin for most of the time
>>69012256
he already told him he was brainwashed and no one wanted to risk it (sensible course of action since Bucky was still not in control of himself)
sorry DCuck but Marvel movies cant be solved by just explaining yourself like Batman v Plotholes
>>69014554
>cop tries to pull you over
>you drive faster
>"he didn't tell me why or have a warrant!"
>"i did nothing wrong!"
>>69014568
bucky was my favourite part of winter solider and civil war. The throwbacks to their time in ww2 made me care more about their friendship desu.
and watching bucky kick literally every characters teeth in throughout the whole movie was satisfying.
>>69014554
>In Civil War he straight up tries to obstruct justice by saving someone suspected of bombing the UN.
Because he no longer trusts authority after the events of Avengers 1 and Winter Soldier.
>>69012256
Implying that Don Cheadle and Black Panther aren't much more likeable than Will Smith 2.0
>>69014820
You can be arrested if there's reasonable suspicion that you've done something wrong. Captain had done nothing. He was literally just taking the lift.
Remember when we all laughed about how fake Downey Jr's CGI armour looked, and the Marvelcucks claimed it was unfinished and would be improved before release, and then it looked just as bad in the finished movie?
Good times...
>>69015103
>"I've done nothing wrong"
SHIELD believed he was guilty of treason.
And you can't say "but he wasn't guilty" because neither was Bucky and he knew it.
>>69015120
I think people think post production lasts until the day before a movie releases, and isn't actually finished and done with way before that.
>>69015103
>Captain had done nothing.
He'd been acting suspicious with Nick Fury. His suspicious behavior was enough to lead him to be arrested and questioned, especially given the sensitive nature of his job.
>>69015103
>"resisting arrest is fine if you know you've done nothing wrong!"
You do realize, in America, even if you've done nothing wrong and can prove it, you'll still get buttfucked by the courts if you resist arrest, right?
Dogshit movie all around, Man Of Steel is better
>>69015318
This literally means that the cops can roughen you up to any degree they want and then it's their word vs yours on "resisting arrest"
Ant Man was the best thing of this movie. Fucking based.
>>69015536
Yes, and as we know, the police harass random citizens like this all day, every day. It's why they get into that line of work in the first place. See a cop? Better run, boy.
Wait, you actually watch this garbage for the plot?
Wait wait, is there seriously only one big fight the whole movie?
Or is it one big fight and then a bunch of skirmish shit throughout
>>69015536
Captain America attacked first, though. If he just said "I surrender" and dropped his shield they would have cuffed him (with the special cuffs they brought that we see in that scene) and escorted him off, which he'd have done if he believed in authority in that film.
But Captain America doesn't trust authority in that film. And he trusts them even less by the end of it. He's pretty clear that he doesn't trust authority in Civil War. And then, when the authority he doesn't trust goes after a friend he trusts (who, like him, is innocent), he sides with the friend.
There's nothing out-of-character in his actions. His actions make perfectly logical sense within his mindset and his experiences. He's not "government good yay authority" like you mistakenly think, and hasn't been for several movies now.
>>69015815
No anon, it's one fight for 17~ minutes, the rest is them talking and filling in forms about paying for collateral damage and discussing whether or not to sign the accords, and quipping about how hard paper work is compared to fighting.
>>69015819
There's a fight in the end with Cap vs Iron Man (with the Winter Soldier playing a role) which is one of the best superhero fights of all time, particularly right at the end when Iron Man loses. Still doesn't eclipse the Batman vs Superman fight scene though.
>>69014390
That was such a good scene. The Russos fucking nailed it desu
It's not a perfect movie, but it was really fucking fun and top tier capeshit. Case in point the emotional as fuck finale, Panther and zemo interspersed with tony and cap beating down on each other was fantastic.
Just a shame it wasn't REALLY a cap movie, more avengers 2.5 with the winter soldier plot added.
>>69015932
Meant to quote: >>69015815
>>69015815
As expected, 'lesser characters' barely get anytime to do anything and it's kind of a big mess like AoU, but they put it together a lot better.
>>69015932
>Still doesn't eclipse the Batman vs Superman fight scene though.
>It's worse than a really bad fight scene
oh.
>>69016023
The scene where Batman fought Superman is probably the best fight scene in cinema history, you faggot pleb.
>>69012256
i agree i hated the movie, didn't see any difference between this and age of ultron.
just green screen in every scene, quips, hamfisting 30 seconds of every hero so it feels like they're part of something epic, heros out of nowhere, there is an african batman and they all have equal power levels???????? That awful vision romance subplot, that awful captain america romance subplot. "War machine" literally can't do anything. That airport parking lot fight scene, wtf. they all just run at each other? what the fuck is black widow gonna do? They are talking and joking with each other during the fight?!? great tension there!! It was just garbage and i was actually excited after reading all shills on here. WTF. capeshit is cancer. Batman vs Superman sucked sure, but it had a bit of spirit.
Where can i put my hope for future superhero movies? Is it all over? Is it all just transformers tier now? Fox? Even with awful jennifer lawrence, it has to be better than that
>>69015986
They did a good job of letting every character shine, and yet still managing to keep the focus of Captain America and Iron Man.
There was a lot of bad CGI in this film
>>69015932
There is the entire fight at the start, the fight with the german police then the chase onto the high way and underpass. The fight inside the base after buckys psych evaluation. The fight at the airport, the fight at the end. Plenty of battles.
>>69016051
>swings superman around on a string
>>69015932
Don't bother, this movie has a few flaws and no one is naming them. They're just saying things that were explained in the film,
>>69015938
i felt it was still definitely a cap movie at the core with extra stuff but thats me.
>>69016090
Yep. And it was epic.
>>69016077
I liked that they varied the locations. Felt like BvS was just in docks and warehouses on docks with the exception of the dream.
>>69016119
>epic
Please refrain from using kool kid lingo, grandpa.
>>69016140
Eat shit, you disgusting faggot.
>>69016051
You're kidding? They Live has better fights than BvS.
>>69016119
>epic
No. Pass.
>even the reviews that say it's the best movie of the year and praise it left and right up and down say Captain America is pretty dull
Lol, is he really that shitty in this? It's his own fucking movie. Did they pull an Avengers 1 again with him?
>>69016152
At least I'm not misusing "epic".
>>69016201
You're sucking your dad's dick, you shit eating faggot.
>>69016196
I thought he was good and interesting as a character.
>>69016223
What's wrong with drinking daddy's sperm?
>>69016223
If he's sucking his dad's dick how is he also eating shit?
>>69016196
>Stoic McStoic dick
He's alright.
>>69016285
He's a shit eating faggot who is currently choking on his dad's dick, just like you're a nigger who is currently banging mindlessly on your keyboard.
>13th MCU film
Jesus is it really?
>>69016372
Count them.
>>69016314
You can do things other than act mean on the Internet.
>>69016285
It's his own shit, trapped under his Dad's cock head.
Whats the post credit scene ? Some shit with Panther or something?
>>69016437
Bucky goes to deliver a pizza to I.C. Wiener, then in another scene Aunt May flirts shamelessly with Peter.
>Hey buddy, I think you forgot this
What did he mean by this?
>>69016437
There's two.
First one: Bucky let's scientists in Wakanda freeze him. Cap thanks Panther for housing them and is like "they'll come for you if they find out you have him" and Panther is like "let them try" and then they camera pans to a panther statue outside.
Second one: Peter is in bed nursing his bruises. Aunt May asks how he got him and he says a kid named Steve from Brooklyn and also he had a big friend with him and then he finds something in his web slinger and it's a light that shows the Spider-Man symbol and then text says "Spidey will return."
You don't know what a plot hole is.
It was stupid, but not a plot hole at all.
>>69012256
>Peggy's funeral
>Cap devastated
>the next day
>ayy Sharon u want sum fuk?
>>69016755
I would fuk sharon too
>>69012256
this movie is darker than bvs unless you counting bvs screen filter
>>69012256
well, bucky still killed tony parents so no
>>69016991
B-but there's no rain and there's too many colors, it can't possibly be dark and mature!
Friendly reminder that:
1) The super-intelligent flying android worthy of Thor's power can't even calculate and fire on a trajectory that minimizes the chances of friendly fire casualties. If he's worthy of Thor's power, who isn't?
2) The Falcon, an un-enhanced, utterly baseline human in every way, manages to not only "sense" a laser being prepped to fire, but is also able to dodge an incoming beam weapon traveling at the speed of light.
3) Ant-Man, the guy whose whole shtick is altering his size and mass doesn't do either of those things to stop Spider-Man from using him as an anchor point to stop him from looping around him like a tether ball.
>>69017069
>If he's worthy of Thor's power, who isn't?
The rest of them, as seen in Age of Ultron.
Except maybe Cap who was just faking it.
>>69012256
being bucky is suffering, he dont even get happy ending
>>69017069
>The super-intelligent flying android worthy of Thor's power can't even calculate and fire on a trajectory that minimizes the chances of friendly fire casualties. If he's worthy of Thor's power, who isn't?
He was distracted by Wanda. Did you watch the movie?
>>69017119
That's my point. By using that cheap shortcut to displaying the Vision's "nobility" and "worthiness" only to later show him this flawed cheapens him, Thor, Cap, the rest of the Avengers, and anyone who swallowed the bullshit in the first place.
>>69017195
That's the opposite of a reason. It's plot-induced stupidity.
>>69017227
>you have to be perfect to be able to lift Thor's hammer
But that's dumb. The worthiness isn't based on your ability to hit moving targets.
>>69017263
No, it's just the judge of your soul, which one would assume includes your wisdom.
>>69017262
I am pretty sure Vision has been giving Wanda the googly school boy eyes the entire movie
>>69017298
Are you implying that a wisened old man could take a moving head shot at 40,000 feet? Because that's stupid. And that has nothing to do with the target moving out of the way
>>69017298
Maybe you shouldn't make assumptions then.
Also it occurs to me worthiness is not a constant state of being. Maybe if Vision tried to lift Mjölnir now, he couldn't.
>>69017350
That misses the point, unless you think someone's "worthiness" is something determined on a moment-by-moment basis. That should mean that any time Thor makes a bone-head play, the hammer should fall out of his hands.
>>69017356
No, I'm saying that a super-intelligent android should be able to calculate a different trajectory simply by moving his head a few degrees and a "worthy" being would have the foresight to do so.
>>69016056
airport scene iron man team just wanted to bring em in, no one wanted to kill each other... you can see how the last fight in the movie is different with emotion when iron man really want to kill bucky and capt really want to save bucky
>>69017408
That's literally how it works
>>69017356
Are you implying that an un-enhanced human could detect a laser being fired at him from that same distance?
>>69017523
So why can Thor still wield it on the occasions where he's all googly-eyed over Jane or enraged and clearly acting outside of the requirements Odin put on Mjolnir?
>>69017477
Why do you hold "being worthy" to such a high esteem? When was it EVER shown that worthy beings were absolutely perfect and could make no mistakes?
>but android
Yeah? What of it? There's nothing he could do if falcon moves away at the last second. He can't curve his fucking beam like a kamehameha
>>69017525
Maybe he saw it or maybe simply moved away at the right time or maybe that strong scanning equipment he's been shown to specialize at detected it just in time. Being enhanced or not has nothing to do with it
>>69017661
That beam's traveling at the speed of light. The last second puts it somewhere around a quarter of the way to the moon. He detected it and "dodged" an alread-fired energy weapon. It's stupid, inexplicable, and either poor writing or cynical writing, depending on whether you think they're that stupid or assume their viewers will be.
>>69017754
It was fast, but not speed of light. Besides, vision has to charge up and line up the shot. He could've gotten a building energy signal and moved
>>69017820
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kiQVwPCVfo
Just look at that build-up.
>>69015932
>which is one of the best superhero fights of all time
rofl
>>69017603
>>69017603
That was literally the plot of the first Thor film
>"Tony, It wasn't him! He was under control!"
>"I don't care. He killed my Mom."
10/10 QUIP
marvel has mastered the art of quipping
B R A V O
R
A
V
O
>>69018238
>quip
Excellent memery, memester.
>>69018206
Yes, and remember what a big deal they made out of it? The Vision picking it up just shits all over it.
>>69012409
>Black Panther
>annoying
We get it /pol/, you hate non-whites. Now could you please stay in your own cancerous containment board?
>>69018238
>I don't care
Why is it okay to rip off The Fugitive?
>>69018238
Your Mom was a fucking whore, and deserved it.
>>69012256
>$862.9 million
it hurts so much...
WHY DO PEOPLE CARE SO MUCH ABOUT FUCKING SUPERHEROES AND COMICS, WHY
IS IT ONLY BECAUSE IT IS POPULAR? IF WE WERE NOW IN THE 1980s WOULD ZOMBIE MOVIES BE THE MOST DISCUSSED THREAD ON /TV/?
>>69018425
If this was the 1980's people would be shitposting about how Arnold is always quipping.
>>69018356
woah did Cap really say this? i mean i heard that he was gonna be a total nigger in this movie but this is some next level
>>69018425
Because we're in a straight up golden age of superhero movies. They finally figured out how to make them good.
>>69018425
>zombies
>restricted to the 80s
It was comic book movies that saved us from the zombie apocalypse
>>69018789
But The Walking Dead IS a comic book.
>>69018425
Why do you care so much that people care so much about superheroes. Nobody's asking you to like them or watch them, other people do.
>>69018844
There's no zombies in the walking dead
>>69018873
Because every single movie forum on the internet is infested with capeshit threads. I can ignore it so much untill I notice I scroll for 5 minutes trying to find a good discussion.
And if I make a thread about whatever movie, it just gets blasted down by all the bumps from capeshit threads. That's why it bothers me. That's why you need containment threads or even whole boards
>>69019010
I don't get it.
Haven't seen it yet, was Ahbed in this one as well?
>>69019010
>No, Rick. You were the zombies.
BRAVO SHYMALAMADINGDONG
>>69019055
I've been trying to talk up cinematic universe generals to combat this.
>>69016056
"are we still friends after this" hawkeye to black widow
>>69019055
What forums have you been visiting besides 4chan? I have long since accepted that you can't have a decent discussion on /tv/ without memes or shitposting, but on other forums there should be dedicated threads about cape movies and you can easily ignore them.
>>69019068
Well, there's no zombies in that series
>>69019225
Then what are those things?
>>69012256
Lets have a moment of silence to appreciate the score.Thank You
>>69019250
What things? The walkers?
>>69012256
>>entire problem could literally be solved by talking to each other before you shoot at each other
Welcome to half of all conflicts in human history
>>69019348
Yes. The zombies.
>>69019445
They're not zombies. They're walkers
>>69019481
So what you're saying is, we don't use the zed word?
>>69019587
>zed
Leave it to the Australians to shitpost
>>69019655
I was quoting Shawn of the Dead but okay?
>>69014393
>Also, I refuse to believe captain America would put his personal feelings before the law. It's totally out of character.
Then you don't actually know what his character is then. Cap has never been one to blindly follow the law or even orders. In first avenger, the first thing he does after properly joining the army is disregarding what his CO told him to do and attacks a hydra base and rescues the 107th. In winter soldier he openly says to Fury that he thinks project insight is bad and that he can't support it. Cap has always put his feelings first, the essence of his character is that he always does what he believes is the right thing, regardless of whether it's against the law or not, remember the river of truth speech?
>>69019481
fuck you walking ded fan
>>69012256
The first half of your post made sense but then the second helf was so dumb I forgot your point.
>>69019413
Except this is a supposedly tightly knit group of superheroes not opposing fucking nations.
>>69020102
You're talking to a statist, you won't get anywhere. He's totally fucking braindead mate.
>>69016570
It looks like it's a little Spider Computer with projector, a gift from Tony.
>why didn't vision disable the jet captain america and bucky where flying on?
>why didn't vision phase through the jet and get them to stop?
>how did tony know parker was spiderman?
>why did tony even leave the country if he though captain america could escape at any moment?
>Why is there a crystal clear monitor in a fortress that was built and used in the 70's/80's/90's
>how come there is only one counselor with bucky when he's getting interrogated?
>so baron zemo's plan was to tear the avengers apart by using old footage of bucky killing tony's parent's?
>what if captain told tony that bucky had killed his parents?
>he knew who had mission 1991, but how did he know what it was?
>how did he know the files would still be there?
>if he knew the files where still there, how come he didn't broadcast them to stark earlier?>how would he know that tony and cap would be split on the accords?
>besides only acting when govs. ask, whats actually in the accords?
>stark said they are looking closely at the border, but how come he can't nab or know that wanda and clint are both there?
I have more questions, but can someone answer these
>>69021453
Pretty fortunate there was a security camera at the exact point that a security camera was required to be at.
>>69021453
>why didn't vision phase through the jet and get them to stop?
vision was busy with his "girlfriend"......then *insert spolier here
>>69021453
why didn't vision eat shit and die because he's a shit character
vision was holding back the whole time, maybe because he was distracted or simply didn't want to do more harm than good. however scarlet witch was also holding back big time and could have fucked up vision if he started going hardcore.
tony has all of shield's resources and is a super genius u dumb fuck its easy to figure it out.
dunno about ur other questions they are stupid m8
>>69014219
"tries"
How much screen time does antman get? This is the most important thing to me.
>>69021781
Only one fight out of many and he acts pretty uncoordinated and untrained in it.
>>69021838
Already disliking this movie then.
>>69021565
>>69021583
>>69021632
at least explain to me how zemo knew
>cap didn't tell tony about his parents
>he knew tony and cap would be split on the accords
>he knew tony would be at the bunker(did he tell falcon to tell him?)
>he knew cap would rescue bucky after he escaped
is zemo God?
>>69021868
It's actually a pretty good movie but Ant Man wasn't that good in it. He became giant and moved really slowly but didn't really get anything accomplished.
>>69021781
well after antman met an avenger in his movie, you would expect he would have a small part in an avengers fight
>>69014456
>>Tony caring about politicans
That was Tony feeling guilty about the problems they've caused. His character has grown a bit (not a lot, but a bit) since the first movie. He's also got stopping being Iron Man on his mind a bit because of Potts leaving him.
>>69014568
He really just exists as a plot device - there's not a lot in him to like. In the grand scheme of things the world is a better place with him dead or on ice.
>>69021453
>>why didn't vision disable the jet captain america and bucky where flying on?
I think that was Tony's plan. Disable Falcon, THEN disable the Quinjet. If they went straight for the Quinjet, Falcon would interfere.
>>why didn't vision phase through the jet and get them to stop?
He was too far away. Vision can phase, not teleport.
>>how did tony know parker was spiderman?
He's a genius. I assume Tony had been tracking the movements of Spiderman, as well as his photos, and put two and two together.
>>why did tony even leave the country if he though captain america could escape at any moment?
He had 36 hours. He spent 24 to get Peter. He was working on the calculation that Steve would not leave the country within 36 hours
>>Why is there a crystal clear monitor in a fortress that was built and used in the 70's/80's/90's
Why is Hydra tech soa dvanced in WW2
>>69012409
>War Machine and the Nigger Panther are both shithouse, gay as fuck characters and simply served as a device to annoy and enrage the viewer
What the fuck is this? Are you retarded or something?
>>69022925 (cont)
>>so baron zemo's plan was to tear the avengers apart by using old footage of bucky killing tony's parent's?
P. much. Consider Tony was unstable, and, at that point, anyone would kill their parents murderer.
>>what if captain told tony that bucky had killed his parents?
Question is: when. When was a good time.
>>he knew who had mission 1991, but how did he know what it was?
>>how did he know the files would still be there?
Howard Stark was transporting the secret soldier formula, which Hydra needed to make more super soldiers. Zemo knew about the programme while looking into Hydra's files.
>>if he knew the files where still there, how come he didn't broadcast them to stark earlier?
It would have given time for Cap to try
and convince Steve that Bucky could still be saved. He had to frame Bucky first, and make he seemed irreversible. Consider that Tony made a truce with Steve when eh found out Bucky was set up
>>how would he know that tony and cap would be split on the accords?
He seemed aware of the rift between the heroes
>>besides only acting when govs. ask, whats actually in the accords?
All kinds of bureaucracy BS. I can imagine stuff like Wanda being restricted, because dangerous abilities.
>>69021937
>>cap didn't tell tony about his parents
Why should he? Its a touchy issue. Besides, Zemo was pretty much working on a gamble. Consider that he had himself walled up in the final confrontation. Assuming Tony and Steve knew, he at least had himself in a bunker.
>he knew tony and cap would be split on the accords
He seemed aware that Tony and Steve were rival personalities. It makes sense that one of the easiest way to attack the avengers was to exploit this. Its the same thing Loki did.
>>69012409
War Machine and Black Panther were still less awkwardly shoehorned in than Wonder Woman.
Can someone explain how the Sokovia Accords are actually designed to work?
>You guys keep killing people whenever you save the world
>We want to make it so that you still kill people whenever you save the world, but now we vote beforehand
>>69023066
>>he knew tony would be at the bunker(did he tell falcon to tell him?)
Again, gamble.
Assuming if it was only Steve and Bucky, he could also use the book he had to brainwash Bucky, on the spot, and have Bucky kill Cap.
Alternatively, if Tony had apprehended Bucky and Steve, and Steve told him about the Winter Soldier plan (hey, that COULD have happened), Zemo would be ready to show the footage to Tony, alone. And Tony would still be enraged and demand the death penalty for Bucky. As well as be a lot more suspicious of Steve, for hiding a secret from him.
The only problem is if neither Tony or Steve had reached Zemo, and instead, its one of the other avengers. Still, Zemo had himself walled up. The only person who could fuck him up would be Vision.
>>he knew cap would rescue bucky after he escaped
Cap pretty much spared Bucky in the final fight in the helicarrier. He might also been aware of the close companionship between the two.
>>69023138
That's pretty much it. The same way that the difference between say, an Army and insurgents is that one is government approved. Avengers basically become an UN sanctioned army that can be called in when shit goes down.
Also Governments/UN have to be seen to be in control of those sort of things of it undermines their credibility etc
>>69012256
>Is this the biggest plot hole of all time? Is this the worst movie of the decade?
trying to hard senpai
Memento exist , BvS exist and much more
>>69023392
But they're completely self-sufficient and can flatten pretty much any army that gets thrown at them, what's to stop them signing up but just disobeying protocols whenever they disagree with the bureaucrats?
>>69023138
>We want to make it so that you still kill people whenever you save the world, but now we vote beforehand
Its pretty much why the law is stupid. Even cap recognized this - its needless bureaucracy, and at the same time, because its motivated by shifting agendas, it could be liable to corruption. Even if it was the United Nations, the same thing that happened to SHIELD could happen to the UN.
That being said, Tony and Rhodes's motivations to join the Accords was understandable - Tony had increasingly been worried about his public image and had been suffering from continuous trauma (surviving near death, break up with Pepper, making Ultron) Rhodes, unlike Falcon (who is a good contrast), is a lot more strict military man who plays by the book. RHodes ahd clashed with Tony previously for his maverick ways.
That being said, I have a theory that, actually, it was Rhodes who recommended and persuaded Tony to join the Accords, and Tony became more convinced after he came across one of the victims of the Sokovia attack. Which means it was not Rhodes who was following Tony, but rather, Tony following Rhodes.
I can't wait to see Hulk's reaction when he comes back to find his old buddy Ross in charge of the Avengers.
Someone is getting smashed.
>>69023517
>what's to stop them signing up but just disobeying protocols whenever they disagree with the bureaucrats?
The Raft.
Of course, the question is how would the world powers be able to subdue some of the superheroes, assuming they had none. Thats theoretical. Considering that some superheroes were more than happy to be under UN, they would have their means of subduing any self-sufficient army that chooses to disobey protocol.
>>69017069
> 3)
The bigger you are, the faster you perceive time and the slower you are to others. Everyone was moving lighting fast for ant man, so maybe he saw it coming way to late.
>>69017227
Being worthy isn't a point of skill. Thor makes plenty of mistakes.
>>69023066
>>69023211
So pretty much gamble and luck was his plan?
>how did he know about the rift?
>how did he know he didn't already tell stark?
>how did he know cap would capture Bucky?
>what if Tony captured him?
>how did he know that cobalt counselor would be the only man in the room?
>how did he know footage of Bucky killing Howard still existed?
>what was his plan if the accords never happened?
His entire plan only hangs upon stuff that he doesn't know about or can't control
>>69023517
I don't know mate. Nothing if they wanted to? Maybe the military has some shit up their sleeve.? Self policing?
That's beside the point though.
>>69024044
>>how did he know about the rift?
Did he show knowledge about the Rift? Anyway, and assuming he did - it doesn't take two and two to know that, with such powerful people within the Avengers, you'd need some sort of super-prison to hold them. He might not need know about the RIft itself, but he could figure out one existed.
>>how did he know he didn't already tell stark?
Like I said: it was a gamble. And I'll get to your last question
>>how did he know cap would capture Bucky?
Cap pretty much went out of his way to try and regain Bucky. Also, Bucky's brainwashing via the book lasts only for so long.
>>what if Tony captured him?
This is assuming Tony knew it was Zemo all along. Unless if you mean Tony capturing Bucky. Then yeah, Bucky's fucked. And Zemo would have to figure something else. Or shoot himself.
>>how did he know that cobalt counselor would be the only man in the room?
le movie "leave only one man in the room meme" Anyway, assuming he was the Sokovian agent he was in the pass, he would've takenc are of the gaurds. Slight oversight there, Russos.
>>how did he know footage of Bucky killing Howard still existed?
Actually thats a good question. I wonder if there's a deleted scene explaining this. I have two theories: (a) the footage is actually from Bucky's mind or (b) it was a hidden security camera hdyra confiscated and stole to help make the murder look like a car crash
>>what was his plan if the accords never happened?
Again: figure something else. or shoot himself
>>His entire plan only hangs upon stuff that he doesn't know about or can't control
Pretty much. The thing I liked about Zemo was that, he was a nihilist. Nothing mattered after his family was gone except for one thing: vengeance. That he managed to frame Bucky and sow discord amongst the Avengers was a fluke but, if it had not succeeded, he might have just shot himself in the head earlier.
That part where Tony screamed at Cap about how the shield doesn't belong to him and he doesn't deserve to wield it gave me such hard feels. ;_;
>>69024549
Just speaking from the heart
>the truth
>>69024549
Ikr.
It was even harder when Cap dropped the shield. He knew Tony was right.
I think Steve will not be known as Captain America next time, but rather, Steve Rogers Supersoldier, the identity he took on for a while
>>69016051
I didnt care about Batman or Murderman and thanks to the trailers I knew they would live to fight Doomsday
>>69024475
I meant the rift between the stark and captain. It's never explained if he knew about it or how he would've planned for something else to happen if one thing in the movie didn't go his way.
His entire plan revolves around getting the avengers to split up, but let's just say after Nigeria, everyone immediately agrees with the accords and then everyone agrees that Bucky should be detained, I don't understand how he knew certain things that where contingent upon his plan
my biggest annoyances:
Lagos, largest city of Nigeria, where movie starts.
K'wanda king angry about Avengers messing with his people? Then you have news anchors putting the location on South Sudan on map, and talking about Uganda next?
what the fuck?
Then they move to New York, HQ.
Next we know, Cap goes to England for the burial with Agent 13, who is stationed in Berlin.
Next, other people are in Wien for the UN talks.
Soon after, they have Cap looking for Bucky who is shown to be in Bucharest, Romania, 1000km east from Wien.
Then, you have GERMAN police storm Buckys place in Romania?
Then, you have major chase/fight, with people from Wien, Austria, joining them? Did everyone teleport to Romania, or did Cap+Bucky teleport to Austria?
Next, they are in Berlin prison, Germany, about 1000km north from Wien.
Soon however, they are shown to be fighting in Dresden airport, as told later, which is like 300km south from Berlin. Honorary mention to Wanda who somehow got within a few hours from New York home to Germany, followed by Vision who also knows how to teleport.
FUCKING TELEPORTERS RUINING THE MOVIE
>>69025010
movie location budget
>>69025010
>Then, you have GERMAN police storm Buckys place in Romania?
gsg9, they even said it
>>69025376
GrenzSchutzGruppe 9, border security group, storming apartments in Romania?
Blast from 1944?
>>69012256
Anybody else felt like this was surprisingly similar to Batman v Superman?
>Government gets worried about superhumans and their out of control power
>Political congregation gets interrupted by explosion
>Heroes fight for stupid reasons and could avoid the whole thing by just stopping a goddamn second and talking a little bit
>After initial fight, main heroes use their brain a little bit and find out the best way to proceed is to team up to defeat main villain
>Villain with dubious motivations has an extremely stupid plan that would never succeed in real life, yet still kind of does due to very specific circumstances that he could never have honestly forseen.
Also, the constant jokes and predictable outcome (everybody knew bucky and cap would fight iron man even after they were supposedly friends again) prevented me from feeling any tension at any point in the movie, and none of the characters were likable at all.
The only thing the movie has left is action, and even that disappointing, as most of it was just a CGIfest with no dept, tension, or emotional dept.
>>69026108
>Blast from 1944?
not at all, they were built in 72 when we had problems with terrorists
what did the Widow say to Cap in the hangar?
what did Tony said to call spiderman?
english is not my first and didn't get those parts.
>>69017018
>Tony:Do you remember when you killed them?
>Bucky: All of them!
this shit hit me hard man
>>69026230
eh, I was trying to make a silly joke about armed Germans storming Romanian buildings like back in 1944 during Wehrmacht retreating through Romania.
anyway, did someone else catch the name of African state? K'wanda, that has something to do with Nigeria, with Lagos being the first mess of the movie?
I swear I heard the news report call it Uganda whilst it showed the location as South Sudan on African map.
>>69014390
I love how in russia its the big bad guy behind it all that shows tony the video and tony still acts on his emotions.
>Look Cap. Here's the bad guy we have been trying to catch. What's that evil sokovian dude? You want to show me a video? You probably have no alterior motive...I'm just going to get all emotional and attack my pals. No time to think that this might be the evil dudes plan....except that dude is right there and showing me this video..
Argh the most frustrating part of that movie.
Whats next, Thanos is going to show starlord that it was actually people that Thor send that abducted him? And this leads into a Thor vs Starlord brawl and everybody forgets about Thanos..?
>>69014390
The only nitpicking is that they fucking spoiled the twist of the movie in the first fucking teaser. We see Tony feeling guilty and actually listening to what Cap told him about them being played,we see him going uncodercover to support Bucky and Cap into taking down the evil super humans, and THEN we get the twist of Zemo playing with Tony's feeling so that they tear each other.The impact is lost because we already know there was going to be a three-way fight in the end.
>>69026768
Wakanda
Fictional state.
Most advanced country in Africa. High tech. Major source of vibranium.
The switzerland of Africa.
>>69014219
>tries
>gets rejected once
>starts destroying a city
WHAT is it with all these superheroes and their mommy/daddy issues? Seriously. What the fuck?
>>69026375
b u m p
>>69027276
you mean you don't have parent issues? who doesn't..
>>69027276
That's why they're superheroes in the first place, anon.
>>69012256
>entire problem could literally be solved by talking to each other before you shoot at each other
It's like you've never read a cape comic in your entire fucking life.
>>69026375
Widow I dont remember..something like she's going to regret this?
Iron man said underoos. He was making fun of spidermans outfit.
>>69026222
>Government gets worried about superhumans and their out of control power
In BvS, it was literally just Superman. In the MCU, it's just the Avengers. But I understand where you're coming from
>Political congregation gets interrupted by explosion
Good point.
>Heroes fight for stupid reasons and could avoid the whole thing by just stopping a goddamn second and talking a little bit
Batman, A.K.A. The World's Greatest Detective got fooled by Mark Zuckerberg and hated Superman for narrow-minded reasons.
Superman got blackmailed.
Captain America was against being under government control and he wanted to protect muh Bucky.
Iron Man was for the Avengers being under regulated government control. And he had to capture Steve's team under orders. And he was fucking furious over learning that Bucky killed his parents and Steve never told him.
Also, in Civil War, everyone DID sit down and debated about their reasonings. I'm sorry anon, but I don't think you watched the movie.
BvS is at fault here desu.
>After initial fight, main heroes use their brain a little bit and find out the best way to proceed is to team up to defeat main villain
Uh. Didn't they do that?
>Villain with dubious motivations has an extremely stupid plan that would never succeed in real life, yet still kind of does due to very specific circumstances that he could never have honestly forseen.
Lex at least. Zemo's were pretty clear. The only problem I had with Zemo's was how did he know Tony was going to come? He literally had to rely on that possibility.
>>69012256
>entire problem could literally be solved by talking to each other before you shoot at each other
They did it.
>not believing a fellow avenger you've just undergone two entire wars with and instead deciding fighting him is a better option than trying to convince him
Who are you referring to? Cap or Tony? Tony wanted to talk with him.
>>69026222
>Villain with dubious motivations has an extremely stupid plan that would never succeed in real life, yet still kind of does due to very specific circumstances that he could never have honestly forseen.
Zemo had a clear goal and an elaborated (hard to digest DESU) plan to have the avengers destroyed from within. Lex as far as we know had no plan nor reason for anything he does in the movie, there seems to be an entire subplot of him somehow also knowing or being played by Darkseid but for some reason it didn't make it into the movie (like many scenes which is why the movie feels so badly edited)
>>69012256
>Is this the worst movie of the decade?
I think that was Deadpool
>>69012256
>ywn be tiny and get to fist fight a giant Scarlet Johansson
>>69025010
It's a war.
>>69019187
Samefagging and a redditor.
>>69030040
>mfw this is now canon
>>69018287
Not really because the hammer probably measures whether someone would use its power selfishly, and/or how much one believes in being able to wield it's power responsibly.
Tony and Hawkeye probably fails in the first, while Bruce and Cap probably fails in the second.
>>69029089
>>69028459
>Defending Zemo
>>69024549
Telling a man that fought in World War 2 and stopped many world threats that he doesn't deserve to wield his own shield is fucking retarded. Steve didn't give a shit. Fuck Tony either way.
>>69031398
The shield was given to him by Howard Stark.
>>69012409
>using the n word
s m h t b h f a m
wtf i hate cap now
>>69012536
Cap is a fuck. Normally, you'd be right - but when faced with evidence hat suggests his best friend is worst case a war criminal, or best case, a brain-washable killing machine - his response is "b..b...but he's my friend!" like fucking sailor moon.
>>69031499
Yes I know but it means nothing. Tony telling him that he didn't deserve it was pathetic. Crybaby move.
>>69031871
it was true tho
Using Stark's shield to defend the guy that killed Stark was a bitch move
>Wanda vanishes 2 minutes into the fight after taking out two people because they realised she was too strong and could easily 1v6
Fucking great writing there.
>>69012256
>capeshit movies have nonsensical and poorly written plots
Surprise.
