>tfw literally everyone defending BvS on /tv/ are just baiting and shitposting
Where can I go to actually discuss what I liked about this flawed but still entertaining movie that happened to also give us the best Batman portrayal?
This board is such a goddamn cesspool.
>>68701716
...go to reddit.
No joke, I genuinely enjoyed this flawed movie.
One thing that really bugged me was the Martha thing. And I don't mean I didn't get why batman suddenly became an ally, because that's easy to understand and I thought that could have been handled a little better.
What I mean when I say I didn't like it was how they beat us over the head with Martha playing a significant role. The opening shots show a dying Thomas Wayne say "Martha" as his last word. One of Bruce nightmares shows his parents Graves and the camera stops at Martha Wayne for a few seconds. Alright by this point I get it. His mom's name is martha. When lex confronts clark, "Martha Martha Martha". Cut to the actual fight. Once Clark says the name we get a brief flashback to Thomas Wayne saying Martha again AND the tombstone with her name.
It's like the movie thinks we're too stupid to recall the significance of the name. It just bugged me hard. Still enjoyed the movie overall though. It's not even close to being as bad as the critics are making it out to be.
>>68701983
I think it was more for the benefit if the audience.
They didn't want people going "Who the fuck is Martha?" or "Why the fuck would Batman care?"
>>68701716
MoS = Birth
BvS = Death
Justice League = Ressurection
>Flawed
I see no flaws, I only see bold stylistic choices.
Stop shitposting and state them otherwise
OP, BvS is Kino. Only MCucks want you to believe there is any shitposting.
>>68702567
>its real
>>68702914
Ye, at this point I don't know why should they care so much about others' opinion on the movie, but they get absolutely furious when they spot someone complimenting the film, and accuse them of shitposting, trolling, shilling, being deluded, being contrarian, being sarcastic, etc. The last option in their minds for some reason is that these people actually enjoyed the movie.
What's wrong with stating sincere opinions?
I really loved this movie, period.
>>68702571
C A P E K I N O
>>68703206
>Sincerity
>on the year 2000+15+(8/8)
Fucking delete this
>>68703282
The post-ironic era of 4chan is dying.
We're reaching post-sincerity now, wake up and smell the coffee.
>>68703400
Um you mean nu-sincerity and that was 2013 anon
We all about dat ironic nu-sincerity now, soon to be post-ironic ;)
>>68703450
nah m8, that was proto-nu-sincerity
>>68701716
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXAaZexNN1g
>>68703553
So it goes
>irony is dead, post-irony reigns supreme
>on corners of smaller boards proto-nu-sincerity is born
>reign of post-irony reaches its logical extreme and collapses
>nu-sincerity blossomed in silence to become new ruler.
Will this kill the spoonfeeding meme?
>>68701716
>>68701783
OP brings up a serious fucking question, really. Now I don't give a shit about BvS, or capeshit at all for that matter, but I do sometimes wish there were a place where one actually could have reasonable sensible discussion on some subject and THAT PLACE OBVIOUSLY ISN'T REDDIT. Why can't there be a middle ground somewhere in this world? Reddit has "discussion", but it's full of absolutely insufferable douches and trilbies and white knights and aspergers and downvotes for anything that rattles the consensus. 4chan has the occasional wit and casual don't-give-a-fuck attitude and freedom to say what's on one's mind, but rarely uses these freedoms for good and 99% of what gets posted is just noise and memespam and hurt feelings and triggered bait wars where people just desperately try to convince each other they're not mad back and forth for hours.
Where are people to go when they finally outgrow /tv/ (or /a/, or whatever) and want to graduate to a place they can kick back with some nice, reasonably intelligent but relaxed discourse without getting sticks up their asses about casual profanity and differences of opinion?
>>68703710
No such thing.
>>68703757
bummer
>>68703768
I know. Sorry. I've looked too.
>>68703710
A small forum where people know each other but are willing to talk and take a little bit of shit.
Good luck finding that though
>>68703553
Yeah, Sincerity posting didn't become fully fledged until around last May.
It was blowback against the sitewide crackdown that began in Mid-January '15 through March of last year.
Holidy 2014 had some truly genuine collaborative memeing free from any forms of irony, but it was too powerful and thus had to be put down violently.
>>68703710
I once read a post suggesting that adding word filters that turned names into jokes like Lord, Lady and other royal-esque titles would do wonders for etiquette.
I wonder how much it would cost to operate a strictly moderated image board where people could discuss all types of entertainment.
Maybe have specific boards for each flavor of entertainment, but then have one free-for-all board where cross boundary discussion would be allowed.
Just a general "arts" discussion site.
The other problem would be making sure it had traffic.
I think it'd be pretty dank. Anyways >>68703757
>>68703710
>>>/film/
Sadly the people you've just mentioned will probably gravitate to that board.
Now to be honest I don't hate memes or anything. I just believe in that old Paul Masson tradition, we will sell no memes before its time.
Can't we live in a world where we have fun memes in one thread, and sensible discussion in another? Is it truly impossible?
>>68703848
>strictly moderated
I wanna elaborate. I don't mean content, but decorum.
Like if you aren't using English properly you could get banned. There was a Brazillian site that did this (for Portuguese) and apparently it cleaned up big time.
>>68703952
Seems like it won't be real.
The people ITT are the chosen ones by destiny to populate the new board >>>/film/, and keep it a safe haven for reasonable sensible discussion.dubs if true
>>68704125
It's no longer just a blank white page!!!
>not getting dubs.
Fuck
>>68702571
MoS=birth
BvS=manhood
Justice League=wisdom
>>68701716
>literally everyone defending BvS on /tv/ are just baiting and shitposting
>pleblords ACTUALLY believe this
Sorry you didn't get the film friendo. Reddit might be more your speed. I suggest you stay there.
>>68701983
i wish the moment actually conveyed bruce being absolutely triggered and visually subliminally focused on the roles and how they're switched around
i wish there was more of a subliminal current with the images as well
like yeah, i get it, the whole movie is a transfiguration but i'm not sure if all stages of the process were given full attention
my take is the aversion for stillness and silence. there are few moments in the movie where there is actual stillness, and i think it could have used more
>>68703588
>taking youtube reviewer opinions seriously
>ever
>>68703710
Looks like reddit would be perfect for you
>>68703710
>where people just desperately try to convince each other they're not mad back and forth for hours.
>goslinglaughing.jpg
Most people talking shit about the movie simply don't get what Snyder was trying to do.
Snyder is attempting to equate superheroes to mythological beings, making parallels between the events in the movie and works of universal literature, greek myths, iconic religious figures and arthuric legends.
Every single one of them serves a different purpose.
Moby Dick illustrates Batman's obsession and the loss of himself that ensues.
Luthor comparing Supes with Prometheus illustrates his allegorical fight against Olympus and his comparison of Zod with Icarus mirrors Zod's exhorbitant ambition.
Arthuric imagery deals with the entire tragedy aspect, the rupture of a pact shatters the lives of those involves and precipitates their death, moral (BW) and literal (CK), but since at the end they are reborn in those aspects that's when religious imagery comes in
Religious imagery is both used to convey how timeless these ideals behind the superheroes are, and to establish a dissonance between Clark by himself and clark as seen by others.
Also people complaining about Clark picking up the spear at the end are stupid. This is the one and only truly selfless and heroic decision he takes during the course of the movie, the harpoon he takes being his only weakness actually adds another dimension to what's happening, he's living up to his image.
I noticed a neat visual reference to the dissonance between ideal superman and actual superman in the shot when you have Supe's monument on the left, Superman on the right and doomsday in the middle, the framing makes Clark look minuscule in comparison to both.
>>68701983
>>68702141
I've almost come to believe that it's intentionally misleading, like some sort of cinematic sleight of hand there to distract us from what comes immediately after. It's the thoughts he's having about his vision that really change his mind. Hearing his own mom's name just rattled him for a few seconds.
>>68703206
I think I can explain it. Seriously watch this:
http://youtu.be/7p6365AVsIA
If you want to skip the intro, the real meat of it starts about five minutes in.
>>68705100
i've been slowly piecing together some thoughts on the movie but it seems some of you are getting around some things i've wanted to say
an interesting thing that i noticed that has been solidified in reading terrio's interview is the idea that these things are at the core of what these characters are and how they function. he said he noticed parallels to apollo and pluto and furthermore in an idealistic way i think they've archeologically tapped into what these characters are and through that the ideas themselves
the way that a lot of ideas in literature and psychology and art blended together seems to me to signal a sort of inevitable point in regards to the way we imagine things. all because of the way it seems they are willing to completely blend these characters with our own world. they want to fully approach these characters as things in our minds
the weird suspicion i have is that maybe they're close to skirting the edges of the cultural imagination
>>68705100
>This is the one and only truly selfless and heroic decision he takes during the course of the movie
You know, there was another great example, bit it's a bit more subliminal. The instant that he decided to not just roll into Bruce ar Mach 5, the instant he decided he'd try to reason with him.
Something else I feel after repeated viewings is that after the first k-grenade and that first good throat punch, Clark spent a goodly portion of the fight unable to speak.
>>68705100
>>68705678
>>68705972
I saw the Arthurian things.
I think it's silly that people were equating Batman to Jesus as well as Supes though.
My overall feeling was that it was trying to discuss contemporary political theory, but lost its tonal foundation somewhere along the way.
Supes is the ideal citizen, while Batman is the pragmatist. These two concepts are perpetually in contest with each other.
I thought it said a lot when you see just how handily Bats rekt Superman in their bout. He wasn't fighting to win, he was fighting to hurt. Look at the extra effort he went through to get that sink so as to smash it on Supes head. This is something the cynical pragmatist would certainly love to do. To really show the new kid on the block just ow real the world actually is.
Lex's ramblings were about some of the formative necessities of a society, and the constant struggle between state and industry. That plays a backseat though because the real story was about idealism vs. pragmatism. He'll you could even make a point that the struggle was because of the state and corporations meddling in people's affairs. Bruce is played like harp from hell for the overwhelming majority of the runtime.
It's very interesting. I felt a lot of patriotic undercurrents in the movie.
That's just me though.
>>68707886
it does seem to be very pro western, pro america even of government to an extent
recently it hit me how in MoS an american symbol of individuality, who also happens to be an illegal alien defeated a genocidal fundamentalist. i've even read some blogs interpret this as good ol american capitalism defeating a leftists, some have even speculated that zod's symbol resembles a sickle without a hammer to further that point
when it came out i just took it as the individual vs oppressive exterior forces but the whole "foreign agency who comes and threatens life in order to plant their own world" seems too on the nose
>>68703631
I really feel that we're in the post irony Renaissance right now, /tv/ couldn't be more ironic if it was made of iron
>>68708216
>it does seem to be very pro western, pro america even of government to an extent
I wasn't sure that it it ended on a pro-governent tone, in fact I'd say it probably wasn't. At the end of the day, the heroes, these two personifications of "the Citizen" end up working together, while the state is largely rendered sterile.
I think maybe that was one of the problems with the movie in that it didn't have a real thematic victor.
Regarding MoS, I kinda disagree about the political commentary, it might be there, but I really don't see it. Mostly I see an excellent story about the very best of the human condition (Clark's arrival until right when Zod shows up) bookended by a weak and superfluous prologue and a tonally incompatible last hour and change.
>>68701983
>It's like the movie thinks we're too stupid to recall the significance of the name
Seeing how most people didn't get the Martha scene,they were right
>>68708216
and also in regards to jesus,
1 - that the world would react to him in relation to jesus is expected
2- snyder and co upped it through the guy(i think he made a movie where he faked to be a guru irl, i recognized him immediately even if i'm not sure exactly from where in 'eastern' realm of things) talked about how many traditions have some sort of expected messianic figure
3- his existence naturally brings up all these questions of divinity and faith. wayne's employee prays as he's about to die, clark's mother has a cross around her neck
4- there is absolutely clear contrast between the events of the movie and the story of jesus. what are the most common thoughts in relation to jesus? what perspective of superman does the movie leave off on?
5- jesus is still the most widespread hero figure, and to me it seems there's a critique of how that virtual/mental jesus functions in our own world. i think the movie is subversive in that regard and it's kind of spooking me that i'm the only one who keeps posting (at least as far as i can tell) about the meaning of superman's death and the battle in general
>>68701983
The Martha thing made sense, but the execution was pretty dumb.
>>68704626
I never really got the "manhood" vibe from BvS, but I often see it parroted because it's simple but doesn't really fit.
MoS was definitely the birth of superman, him being forcefully thrust into existence and him defining who he is.
BvS seemed rather than superman changing, it was humanity. They go from making an obnoxious monument to a humble one. It was humanity (including Bruce) figuring out how superman fitted into their world.
>>68705172
It's also Lois that finally gets through to batman. I think it's batman finally seeing superman is fighting for someone else (his mother), and has people that care for him like Lois that humanizes him in Bruce's eyes, as well as Bruce realizing that Lois is effectively in the position he was as a kid, which really hit home what he's become.
It's why even after the whole "Martha" bit he's still about to go through with it until Lois shows up. She's very much superman connection to mankind and no time more so than in that moment
>>68708341
what i meant by pro government is that the government and social order where in no way bashed by the movie.
finch is presented as a rational person
swanwick is presented as a good person who has to work within the government even if it means keeping secrets ie stuff that they know luthor is up to
when we're shown the president's decision to nuke we sympathize with them, we understand that it's a tough decision they're not comfortable with
it's glamorizing but it's certainly not bashing the us government. the way the movie literally ends on a hopeful tone in a world where superman finally became an actual symbol signals to me, obviously, hope for everyone within that world
the inverted painting also i think ties in with this, while also tying into how these things are meant to be real in our own world
>>68708612
In BvS, Superman is barely a character anyways.
Which is fine, but the movie happens around him rather than being about him, if that makes sense.
>>68708406
I'll tell you what I think all the religious imagery is there to convey.
I think it's to cue the audience in to when the people of the movie are thinking of Superman as a god. He's not, and he's not trying to be, but his very nature make him appear god-like to other people.
Whenever you see religious symbolism related to him, I think it's there to let us know that Supes isn't reaching through to people and they're not connecting with him as a man and a hero. That makes the imagery at the end of BvS interesting, as it could mean that it's either Bruce "worshiping" him at that point or it's just the world in general.
>>68708729
I liked the movie, but as I've said before, this screencap wholly misses the point.
>>68708666
it's *not* glamorizing
>>68708666
Fuck off, devil.
I think when you narrow that focus to "the us government" you run the risk of glossing over some things.
It's just the state, not the USA, even though the movie depicts the US.
>>68708341
>Mostly I see an excellent story about the very best of the human condition (Clark's arrival until right when Zod shows up) bookended by a weak and superfluous prologue and a tonally incompatible last hour and change.
I disagree. Especially about the last hour not fitting.
It wasn't supposed to be smooth transition from his average life to Zod showing up. Clark was essentially being forced out of hiding. It felt like a reality check for Clark about what being a kryptonian meant.
I agree about not really seeing any political message being intentional, rather people choosing to see it. Same with the 9/11 analogies. Just because an analogy can be made, doesn't mean that's the intent or what should be taken from the film.
>the best Batman portrayal
that's not Keaton
>>68708704
It makes sense and it's exactly what I thought too. In fact I wish we had seen less of superman, that he really was just a distant character and the movie was from lex and Bruce's point of view.
>>68708666
It's not glamorizing at all.
You do realize that swanwick is keeping his mouth shut because he knows lex is a powerful man (probably the most powerful in the film, hence his motivation to disposs of Clark).
It's doesn't glamorize the military, it just humanizes it and doesn't portray them as caricatures. They are regular people doing a job.
>>68708729
man fuck.
the whole point of the movie is that no one is to be worshiped no matter how powerful
hope is for and by all of us. external saviors that come from the sky don't work. we have to pick ourselves and each other up and "reach to the sky".
si monumentum requiris, circumspice
the city itself, the world even, the people themselves are his monument. the way this message is also shown to the audience i take as also including the viewer on this.
bruce doesn't worship clark in the slightest, he was simply able to see himself and the world he lived in clearly through clark. the light at the beginning was a beautiful lie, now he has reached authentic clear sight
the movie logo itself shows us how what was previously a symbol of fear now contains the symbol of hope within it, and bruce talks about his intentions to form a community through this message
>>68708856
That's why it's the best, because Keaton isn't.Kilmer was better than Keaton too ;)
>>68708995
that's what i said
>>68709008
That's what that is saying. We're worshiping him when we shouldn't. That's what the movie's partly about - him slowly becoming aware of it.
>>68701983
Considering how some people still didn't get the Martha scene, I think it was necessary for the general audience.
>>68708817
i just single out the us government because i'm not knowledgeable on every culture and every government around the world
all i'm saying is that the movie doesn't demonize the government
>>68709037
And That's not glamorizing.
I was just clearing up why swanwick was being secretive. It wasn't clear from your post if you knew.
>>68709008
Dude that's what he was saying in his post.
Mankind are choosing to see Clark as a god in the film, and the imagery reinforces that. It's not saying we should view him as a god, quite the opposite.
I mean, even in MoS I took the Jesus imagery in the church to be how the priest saw Clark
>>68709253
Some people don't even get that it was Lois that ultimately stopped Bruce.
People are fucking dumb man.
>>68709208
i posted this >>68708769
in hopes of clearing up my typo but yeah again all i'm saying is that all these people are sympathetic they are neither incompetent nor conniving
>>68709035
Batman Returns is probably my favorite of that era.
I gotta agree though, Kilmer was tops.
>>68709107
Sure, I didn't think I suggested that, just that it's ultimately irrelevant in the core contest between the idealism and reality. What I got out of it was telling the citizen to keep out of what people do. Interestingly enough, that "do" is reconciling that inner struggle with corporatism. You'd think that it'd be "no muh state has to defend us against the big bad corporation", at least that'd be the go to for most modern Hollywood fare. Really, it shows that the state is essentially worthless in that regard--note how Lex buys off that other government official.
It comes off as a very pro-citizen work, note the piece about Bruce discussing how the Wayne family came into wealth, those industries, rail, oil, steel(?) were the core industries that shaped the current developed world into being. Not just in America, either.
>>68709305
>Lois
>Not the "I've become a monster" totes deep and super subtle Batepiphany
If you say so mate.
>>68709268
You know what's cool about that church scene? The way Clark's framed gives us the priest's perceptions of him over the entire scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4teJPCcJSQ0
dude
dude
dude
supernatural god-like being
supernatural god-like being
dude
fuck the dream sequences
fuck the shitty ass 'extended universe' type marvel shit they're trying to pull it's so fucking stupid and was the worst part of the movie
>>68709457
It's even better when you stop to think about that priest and everyone else in the world hearing Zod speaking to them from space in every language. Now here's a guy who represents that same alien power. Man, it would be real hard to think of Clark as anything but some otherworldly power after that, and at that point, no one's even seen what Kryptonians can do physically.
>>68709613
>fuck the dream sequences
Those were the best parts.
>>68709729
maybe visually.
>>68709380
ok i see that.
and i guess in regards to your observations on bruce, to me that connects to the pro individual message of MoS
>>68709326
Ah ok I didn't realize that was you fixing a typo, my bad dude
>>68709778
Indeed. This has turned into a nice thread actually. I'm quite glad we're able to discuss this somewhat reasonably.
>>68709763
Chase sequence was the best visually. Now that I think about it, it was the best part. Camera was like smooth butter.
>>68709729
I'm pretty sure the first guy that posted this "favorite scenes" list was being at least half-sarcastic, but I thought it was too funny not to share:
BvS Best Scenes
Batman flying with bats
Batman talking to Alfred
Batman fighting Batmonsters in his sleep
Batman scaring cops
Batman flirting with Wonder Woman
Batman working out
Batman killing badguys with his car
Batman killing badguys with his plane
Batman killing badguys to save his friend's mom
Batman killing badguys in his dreams
>>68709932
>Batman killing badguys with his plane
This is the point where I lost it hard.I really need to finish my physics works.
>>68709416
Well he was still about to kill supes before she showed up. You see get ready to trust right before she throws herself down next to Clark.
>>68709457
That's exactly what I was talking about. The god imagery only puts up once Clark tells the priest who he is too. It's great (though could have been don't a little more subtly)
One thing I love about this superman/Clark is he never does this hammy "STAND BACK! ILL SAVE YOU LOIS!", he just talks like a regular person even when superman.
>>68709932
>Batman flirting with Wonder Woman
That was terrible, Gal has zero chemistry/sex appeal and Affleck's lines were terrible.
>>68709932
>>68709994
I want to see this in cartoon form. Sadly, I'm a crappy artist.
>>68710039
You see him get ready to thrust the spear*
>>68709932
Did he scar cops? I thought it was only the criminal he branded.
>>68710040
>Gal has zero chemistry/sex appeal
>>68710040
>"You've never met a woman like me"
>>"You're right. I've never met a talking skeleton before."
That cracked me up, my date called me a sexist pig though. Found out she had a problem with bulimia.
>>68710039
If you say so m8y.
>>68710098
The cop in the beginning that shot at him when he was stuck to the wall then scurried past him like a xenomorph
"I DIDN'T THINK HE WAS REAL!"
>>68710060
I've got this great mental image of cartoony Bruce laying in bed, still wearing his cowl with a little beatific smile on his face with a thought bubble depicting him just wrecking dudes in the "Flashforward."
>>68710098
Scaring not scarring, retard.Well crafted bait thought.
how often do you guys think gadot's english got in the way?imagine the bloopers
>>68710111
go tell your kike overlords I said so too.
>>68710205
she seems competent enough in most interviews, at least enough to memorise some lines.
>>68710139
I liked how he stuck that one batarang in the doorjamb, sort of like hanging a sock on your doorknob to let your roomie know you're with someone.
I'm off to bed, guys. Been great talking with you all.
I dont even need to see another Man of Shit to know that BvS sucked ass and Marvel films are infinitely better
>>68710221
That's the thing with acting. Your English could be terrible but you just need to learn how to say your lines.
It's like how Clooney, for some movie I can't remember, recorded some Kentucky guy saying all his lines then just mimicked how he said it.
>>68710327
Or like Brad Pitt in "Snatch."
>>68710322
Good for you pal.
Personally I'm glad I like the DC films and not the marvel one. means I've only had to see 2 films and not 16 or however many marvel have crapped out.
Has anyone yet made complete sense of why Lex was arming his mercs with prototype bullets? I'm hoping the extended scenes explain that a little better.
>>68710443
To try and see if they'd hurt Superman.
I think it's even stated, if not it was heavily implied.
>>68710443
To frame superman of course.
The movie spelled this out.
So fucking stupid.
>>68710443
Everything was a paper trail to ultimately lead Superman to him, it was a game to him to setup Batman and Superman as enemiesalso gave Lois something to do
>>68710443
it wasn't a secret either, obviously you'd have to be in the know ie swanwick. lex is that powerful
he just gets caught with his pants down in the movie
>>68710519
Nah, the bullets had nothing to do with framing him. Lex's mercs took off for that nearby village to stir shit up more and lay it off as Supes's fault for interfering and making a bad situation worse.
>>68710443
I don't remember at what point I've read it but I once saw mentions of supporting cast having more exposure than what we got in a movie(possibly in original script), including General Swanwick. It's just a thought but maybe it could have been a way to flush out the leak in military/government that would side with Superman.
>>68710579
I kept thinking that what Lois got was a dud and they were designed to burn or mimic blunt force trauma or something. You know - things that might conceivably make the wounds look like something Supes would do.
>>68710666
You might be overthinking it, that sounds cool though.
The whole incident is pretty much about not what happened there but how it affected everything else, not only was a US government agent was killed but a terrorist leader taken out by Superman, which in turn led to retaliation by his group causing neighboring villages to get slaughtered.
>>68710629
Honestly I wanted more of that and of senator finch. The political thriller stuff was interesting and it sort of died out with a whimper once lex blew up the courtroom.
>>68701716
there's really great bits in it, but it's a fucking mess overall and pretty pretentious, Snyder wanted it to be kino so badly that he tried too hard to make it so.
Eisenberg was unforgivable though, seriously how did that get put to film it was painful to watch him autism his way through
>>68710752
You may be right - I really could be overthinking it. I just thought it was odd for him to leave such a clear trail back to himself.
To tell you the truth, as a long-time comics geek, when I first saw the funky-looking slug Lois dug out of that journal, my first thought was "Oh shit! Intergang!"
>>68703588
Sup Evans. Do you want me to call you out again?
>>68710883
There is more than one evansposter
