Why do we keep arguing over Capekino when Zack Snyder already delivered the highest form of Capekino 7 years ago?
>Philosophical
Check
>Visually Engaging
Check
>Nudity (both Boobs and Dongs)
Check
>Based on the greatest Graphic Novel of all time
Check
>Hated by pleb critics who expected the plot to be spelled out for them like a childish Marvel movie
Check
Watchmen is everything we've been asking for and it got largely ignored.
It's a masterpiece. Name one marvel movie better than Watchmen
>>68582005
Ant-Man
>>68582041
What's that mean?
>Expository dialogue
What's that mean
>Expository dialogue
What's that mean
>Expository dialogue
>Fight scene
Yeah, no.
>>68581923
>Zack Snyder's only good film is the one where the story was entirely written out for him
>Decides to change the "villain"'s plan, which is the worst part of the movie
>>68582148
>More baseless Internet bitching
Stop watching movies. There's no point cause everything sucks, right?
>>68581923
critics see everything cape as childish and thus expects it to be riddled with quips, when it doesn't have that they feel that it is shit and gives it a bad rating
that and zack snyder don't buy the critics
>>68581923
>Visually Engaging
>muh blues
yeah no
>>68582148
Both ozy's plans were equally retarded tho
>>68582144
You just described Watchment
>expository 'philosophical' dialogue
>fight scene in slow mo
>expository 'philosophical' dialogue
>slow mo explosion
>>68582268
Grasping at straws: The reply
>>68582268
Lol did you even watch either fucking movie?
>>68581923
I think Watchmen and MoS were proto-capekino
BvS was the real deal, because it brought upon us unprecedented numbers of butthurt.
>>68582296
but that's exactly what he did ya dumb fuck
It got ignored because of the sex scene.
You want to know what part the movie actually did better than the comic? This scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rmgyz5Fipw
In the comic, it's basically the same but makes absolutely no fucking sense. How is cutting the guy's throat make things easier? The movie makes the guy saw off his hands, while keeping the bloody nature the comic intended.
>>68582387
Grasp at straws for a shitpost? Yes """"""""""he"""""" did.
>>68582148
desu his plans in the comic were more retarded
fun fact: rorshach was designed, both personality and costume wise, after ditko's The Question
>>68582395
>Nothing personnel Big Guy
>>68582395
It was a more merciful way of killing him before taking his arms.fucking autists, I swear
>>68581923
Snyder adapted one of the deeper comics ever written into a film as profound as a street puddle. He didn't even adapt the movie; he took frames from the comic and copied as closely as possible without caring about the thematic substance of what it was trying to say.
>>68582664
This
>>68582664
>"i don't like it because it strays too far from the source"
>"i don't like it because it is too much like the source"
mcfucking kill yourself
>>68582395
He'd suffer from the lock being burned through with a blow torch, so they just put him down instead.
Movie version of this is great too, bar the line about Rorschach cooking.
>>68582218
>>68582479
Comic: Make the USA and Russia believe that Earth could be at threat of an incoming extra-terrestrial attack.
Film: Blame Dr. Manhattan for the energy cells going off, making Doc seem like he had betrayed the USA but had not sided with Russia, so acts as a 3rd party. Doc then leaves the galaxy.
>>68582716
No, I don't fucking like it because it's, unlike TFA, an actual glib facsimile. It copies the source without understanding the source's themes, or that what works in one medium doesn't necessarily work in another.
>>68582148
>only good film
>300, Man of Steel and Dawn of the Dead exist
>>68582799
>Man of Steel
>good
STOP
>>68582839
Once it stops being true, my meme.
>>68582664
>watchmen
>deep
Go to bed Alan.
>>68581923
They should have called the movie Rorschach since it pretty much focused on him more than the other characters.
>>68582783
>unlike TFA, an actual glib facsimile
but TFA was just that
>>68582783
People post this crap all the time and yet never explain what they mean outside of the fight scenes being to choreographed
>themes
Literally kill yourself. A kid understands the comic book, stop acting like you're a genius for getting a simple funny book.
>>68583121
It was a remake that understood the monomyth; it understood Star Wars and what made it special .
>>68582752
>>68582596
>it's merciful
That's the point. It shows that Big Figure is ruthless and that Rorschach is unfazed by it. The movie goes more extreme and shows that even that extreme unfazed Rorschach, with a bit of a twitch to show that it still fucks him up.
The movie is a much better version of that scene.
>>68582839
>Man of Steel
>bad
hello kiddo
>>68583156
>book about a realistic portrayal of superheroes and how they'd affect the current political environment
>set in the fucking 80s, filmed like every other superhero movie, and everyone has super strength
MoS and Watchmen are the greatest films
>>68583156
The point of watchmen is superheroes are retarded and dont work in a realistic setting. They belong in fanciful childrens stories, in a realistic light they fall apart. Their ideaologies crumble and even Adrian Veidt cant save the world. (Nothing ever ends)
The movie is more concerned with making them super cool, edgy and badass than weak, useless dorks in spandex. It kills itself.
>>68584040
>filmed like every other superhero movie
>>68584132
>look how cool this fight scene is!
>look how sexy Silk Spectre is!
>look at all this gore splatter!
>slow motion makes everything awesomer!
>I like to color grade my film in orange and teal because they're complementary colors!
It's shot like a typical blockbuster.
>>68584121
Fucking idiot. Although Moore purposefully made it obvious that only insane people would become Superheroes, he never made it a point that it wasn't fun.
They work in a realistic setting, but they'd have to be insane and can't stand the test of time.
>>68584320
>>68584320
no it's not
Screenplay: David Hayter and Alex Tse
Snyder is a hack
>>68584391
It absolutely is.The movie is tacky as hell.
>>68582148
alien invasion shit was stupid.
aliens attacked new york, so what? why russians give a fuck?
also what will happen when they discover, there isn't any aliens coming?
Who was the best casted actor in this? Who was the worst?
Watchmen is the only Snyder film I like and I went in expecting to hate it because I'm a big fan of the comic and thought there was no way in hell it could be adapted well, esp by the guy who directed a mediocre dawn of the dead remake.
Because of that my expectations for MoS were super high. But then it was fucking shit. (I liked the beginning part with Russell Crowe. Kind of wish there was a whole movie of that shit, that way you could have all the violence and death you want but wouldn't have to deal with superman's Kansas morals)
>>68584746
It's somewhat explained. The Alien died on impact and everyone saw the alien appear in their mind, so they were tricked that it wasn't bullshit but impending doom.
>also what will happen when they discover, there isn't any aliens coming?
Back to blowing each other. Hence, nothing ever ends.
>>68585451
You didn't like Dawn of the Dead?
>>68584746
>alien invasion shit
The fuck are you talking about? What's his cunt framed fourth dimensional blue glowy dude as a worldwide threat to bring peace and stability to the planet. There's no alien invasion.
>>68581923
But thats not the Dark Knight
>>68585620
Mediocre.
When you remake a movie you should add to it, not take away. It was less of a movie in almost every regard.
>>68585672
Except it added in every way.
>muh consumerism message
The only bad part is the baby zombie.
I'm honestly curious to know what you see in that movie to be mediocre.
>>68585807
Really? The baby zombie was the only part I felt was okay cause they didn't do the bullshit eat through the stomach scare.
>added to it in every way
Added what? A Richard Cheese song? Made it significantly less tense and more "gen x, edgy fun!"
Wasn't for me man. Its fine if you liked it but I saw literally 0 improvements and at that point that makes a remake worthless imo.
https://youtu.be/ZZQYv_ZOmW0
Capekino. No other movie about superheroes has the depth and philosophy of this movie, even if its not as good as the comic its still better than mostly every other superhero movie.
>>68583091
Explain why it isn't.
>>68581923
I haven't seen this movie in years. Why was Dr. Manhattan so emo, and why did he kill Roscharch? Also why did he want to be on the moon by himself?
>>68586597
I'm not that guy but that isn't how depth works. It's relative.
If you 1 foot tall 6 feet of water is fucking deep. If you're 6'5, not so much.
Personally I think a lot of the depth from the comic didn't transfer well but that's about as deep as you're gonna go for a summer blockbuster
>>68586727
Also depth/lack of depth doesn't make art good/bad
>>68586611
He's sick of dealing with human problems, he killed Rorschach because he refuses to compromise on his morals and would ruin Veid's new utopia by revealing the secret that it was a ruse. But the point of the ending is Rorschach's journal we've been following may be published at a news outlet..
Why is Alan so based?
https://youtu.be/1iFV1HdO2pQ
>>68582005
Spiderman 2
>>68586775
>Also depth/lack of depth doesn't make art good/bad
Lack of depth does make art bad if you appreciate depth and seek it out purposefully for your movie choices.
>>68582005
Guardians of the Galaxy
>>68582148
what was the comic plan?
>>68587019
Old bait, but good
>>68587044
It was stupid, I liked the comic better but it's ending was off.
>make giant space monster with kooky powers
>everyone will be friends now
>>68581923
Watchmen is good. Great, even.
BvS is not.
>>68587095
ah I see, but at the end of day both endings sound like they have the same result.
>>68586988
Yeah that's a personal preference. You might have a fetish for fat chicks but it doesn't make fit girls ugly. It's just you.
>>68581923
Because Watchmen Ultimate Cut is Cape Cinèmatographe
why do we allow DC kiddies to push this little shitpost fest of theirs, with MoS, BvS and Watchmen
all three were horrible failures critics, audience and box office wise, but the DCucks on here flock out and try to push the idea that they were somehow good?
why is 4chan either
A. this tryhard contrarian
or
B. filled with his many sore loser DCucks?
"Watchmen" by Zack Snyder is basically what I would've expected a Watchmen fan-made film to be like: shots taken straight from the comic, plenty of silly effects, and bad acting, yet somehow enjoyable.
A 7/10 film, but I cannot go any higher than a 7, because it has too many flaws to warrant a higher score. The casting is inconsistent, the acting is generally poor, and the musical choices can be out of place.
A good film that requires leaving creativity at the door to make.
>>68587159
Yeah as a fan of the comic I expected to hate the movie if it changed that but I was actually ok with the change and feel like trying to film/explain the comic version to general audiences would've been a nightmare
>>68581923
such a boring flick holy shit
even BvS is better than this garbage
>>68587195
Why do you care so much? I liked Watchmen and hated MoS so much I didn't even see BvS.
I like a fair share of the marvel movies but am getting relatively tired of them.
What do you guys get from these little franchise wars. You know that your alliegence to Marvel gets you nothing, right?
Get a life
>>68581923
>this was 7 years ago
Just let me end it already
>>68586503
What? Seriously, you're not really explaining what's mediocre about it.
>>68582148
>comic
>Ozy's plan was to bring an Ayyy lmao and the world unites to stop it
>Dr. Manhattan leaves earth, reason isn't really that good
>Film version
>Ozy uses Dr. Manhattan's energy to destroy multiple cities around the world, bringing every nation together to stop him
>Dr. Manhattan leaves earth, knows he's been exiled
Watchmen isn't a good movie nor it is deep. Comic was actually good because it had actual underlying messages. This movie killed everything what made the comic great. It tried to be deep in favor of being deep. Only philosophical message you should get from this movie is the fact that Snyder has a mind of a 13 years old.
>>68581923
is this as good as it will get, a crappy adaption of a mediocre graphic novel?
>>68584746
>>68582716
>>68582169
A great source material was adapted for infantile cunts and your moronic worship of this movie shows it.
I'll never agree that the ending was a better choice than the graphic novel. Dr. Manhattan was explicitly stated to be an agent of America, his framing of which would not result in peace but in more reasons for the world to go at war. A fake alien killing everything is an intentionally preposterous and unthinkable premise with which to diminish the petty squabbles of mankind, presumably soliciting peace.
You are all stupid fucks. Talk about Batman versus Superman, it is a film far more worthy of your tastes.
>>68587160
Of course it's just a preference.
Do you believe there's an objective rubric that can be used to differentiate 'good' movies from 'bad' movies?
>>68587195
/co/ is mostly DC fans, and /co/ began to leak into /tv/. That combined with the fact that, as you said, 4chan is overly contrarian simply to avoid conforming to the mass opinion and not because most people here actually agree with the shit opinion, and you have the perfect storm of hipster bullshit.
>>68582716
There's a lot of shit in the comic that can't be adapted (like an entire chapter being completely symmetrical) and that's why they should've left it alone
>>68584746
>also what will happen when they discover, there isn't any aliens coming?
Why even bother commenting on it when you obviously haven't read it?
>>68587464
How new can you be? Is this your first year?
I honestly think this is how you make capekino.
Just disregard everything, fuck the suits, try your own vision.
And yes, I agree with the ending change. To pull a post-Hellboy Lovecraftian ending on people would be like "it was just like hellboy!" even though the plebs never read H.P.
>>68587464
Reverse. /co/ was pretty much Marvel fans before 2013. After MoS, /tv/ began to leak into /co/
>>68587307
Are you purposely trying to not understand? When you remake a movie you either make it better/different or it's pointless, and it was the same goddamn movie, with a different soundtrack and more attitude. That makes it fucking pointless.
Now you, tell me what it supposedly "added".
Cause all I saw was a decent zombie movie carrying the name of a superior zombie movie made decades earlier
>>68581923
He didn't really create it though, he just copied and pasted most from the book
>>68585634
This post is when you introduce a new poster to a thread that hasn't read previous comments or even the source material of what the movie was based on.
Dumbass.
>>68582041
Reminder
>>68587044
[spoilers]Ozymandias[/spoilers] secretly bio-engineers a giant "alien" squid-like monster with psychic powers. He then teleports it into New York city where it is basically dead on arrival. The "alien" destroys the city and kills most of the residents. News is spread around the world of the attack and the USA and Russia stop fighting and begin to form an allegiance, as they believe that the Earth may be under threat of an extra-terrestrial attack.
Please guys, Snyder just directed this movie, he didn't even wrote it
>>68587211
The movie explanation was perfectly fine.
>>68587240
maybe Fantastic Four is more your speed.
>>68587616
It wasn't that different from the comic though.
>>68581923
watchmen apologists are the worst kind of posters
>>68588342
the movie was alright though
>>68587537
I've been on 4chan for almost 10 years now. Started on /b/ in 2006, then went to /sp/ around 2008 when it came back, and still go there while coming here. So no, I'm not new.
>>68588264
Why'd you quote me and just say what I said? Yes the movie explanation was perfectly fine....
>>68587652
You still haven't answered the question. Or better yet, let me rephrase the question: what was similar between the two versions to the point where you thought there was no difference at all?
>Now you, tell me what it supposedly "added".
Fast zombies, people having to actually survive in a mall rather than joke around for commentary sake, making it enjoyable, etc.
>>68588670
I was agreeing with you nigga.
>>68588073
>Flavor of the Week
He's right tho.
We're still talking about BvS. No one is talking about Ant-Man.
>>68588832
that's not always a good thing.
>>68588800
Nice trip-dubs
I'm just cranky I think
>>68588701
I really don't even know what else you want me to say at the point because I've spelled it out in plain English multiple times.
You win via attrition. Congratulations.
>>68581923
It's one of the few movie adaptations that made me sick in the mouth. How can you take so many scenes 1/1 and still miss the point of the comic?
>>68582005
Avengers: Age of Ultron
>>68582395
rorshach was the best handled in the movie, really.
>>68583396
>it understood Star Wars and what made it special .
Understanding it and reproducing it are two very different things, TFA felt like a full-length cinematic homage to ANH that somehow failed to capture anything but the faintest echo of the magic.
The absolute best(as in worst) example of this for me was in Rey and Finn's celebration in the aftermath of the chase on Jakku. I knew exactly what they were going for, and knowing only made it seem all the more hollow and contrived.
>>68584647
marvel movies are tacky.
watchmen represents much more than that.
>>68589448
you're in the minority. Many people felt it reproduced quite well and captured the original magic.
>>68582218
>>68582752
>>68584746
>>68585585
>>68585634
>>68587044
>>68587095
>>68587159
>>68587211
>>68587346
>>68587418
>>68587616
>>68588211
I think the Ozy's plot from the movie worked better because it didn't just focus on blowing up one American city, but multiple around the globe.
In the comics, it always struck me as jarring that in a world with only one truly superhuman being, Ozymandias was somehow able to step outside that otherwise real-world setting and create a telepathic monster.
>>68587514
>>68587418
>Why even bother commenting on it when you obviously haven't read it?
the fuck are you talking about? veidt created a monstrosity then killed its designers. there is no other alien coming. did veidt build an another secret alien cloning factory? will he send them to create another disaster when he is bored?
this shit is stupid because of this.
dr. manhattan plot is much simple yet clever. there is always dr. manhattan. they don't know where he is, he left or came back. this fear is legit.
>>68590157
Close but no cigar. Dr. Mahattan left. Sure, the fear is still there but someone will get cocky and ignore the fear. No one knows or will remember Dr. Manhattan within a generation and Ozymandiaz will not be able to replicate Dr. Manhattan's power like he did in the past.
All in all, basically, both ending end up with the same results.
>>68590086
I totally agree.
source material doesn't need to be 100% 1:1 for the adaptation to be good.
>A global deterrent is the same as the desertion of an american deterrent and has the same consequences guys just turn your brain off :)
Fuck pretentious braindead retards
>>68590326
in comic, just new york city is destroyed. russian may not be give a fuck
in movie, several cities all around world are destroyed. all nations should give a fuck.
see, it's simple.
>>68590625
I agree. Although everyone gets a vision of the alien invasion, so everyone has the fear of annihilation.
>>68591003
> Although everyone gets a vision of the alien invasion
just people in new york city
>>68591141
No, it's like a shockwave. The people in New York get the most vivid visions.
>>68581923
>based on the greatest graphics novelles of all time
Good one m8
>>68585360
Best Casted: Rorschach
Worst Casted: Ozymandias by far
>>68589162
that's just offensive b8 m8
>>68590086
this the ending is the weakest point of the GN
>>68581923
It's only good because the source material is a masterpiece. It doesn't count. Everything Snyder brought to the movie only made it worse and watered down the spirit of the comic.
>>68581923
Remind me, what's so philosophical about it? Wasn't it just some
>ah I feel weird, let's fuck up the world
in the end?
>>68594399
the ending was better and the opening was great.
I hate Alan Moore all his comics are overrated
>>68585360
Best cast: Toss up between Rorschach and the Comedian. I'm leaning slightly more towards the former, though.
Worst cast: My Chemical Romance for that shit cover of Desolation Row.
>>68594637
Rorschach was great
also MCR did a great job. The soundtrack was overall pretty good. Especially with Unforgettable.
Stylistic garbage without an emotional core but if that's what you're into, also try the Matrix sequels, the Resident Evil series, and the Star Wars prequels.
>>68594541
>the ending was better
Full fucking pleb status. It doesn't even make sense from a logical stand point. Dr. Manhattan was an American that fought in fucking Vietnam. The entire world would blame the US for what "he" did. The extraterrestrial squid is ridiculous but it actually makes more sense thematically and logically. The fact they included the Black Freighter and took out the squid shows how little Snyder actually cared about or understood the comic.
>>68594962
Not to mention Dr. Manhattan was more or less an allegory for the nuclear bomb. He was created in America. If he blew up cities in Europe in real life the US would be taking the blame, no one would care that one US city also got attacked.
The only reason they took the squid out was because it was too weird for mainstream plebs.
>>68594962
>Capeshit
>It doesn't even make sense from a logical stand point
No shit sherlock
>>68594962
DUDE ALIENS LMAO
Go watch the Ultimate Cut and tell me that Black Freighter shit doesn't ruin the pacing. This isn't printed colors on paper, this is a movie. They are different.
>>68595116
Not him, but I agree that in the Ultimate Cut, BF does ruin the pacing.
But the alien ending is way more logical. It isn't an actual alien, but the rest of the world doesn't know that.
>>68595104
The book makes logical sense for the world that it takes place in. The movie does not.
>>68595116
Did you even read what I said? I agree with you. The Black Freighter stuff is completely irrelevant and pointless without the squid.
DUDE ALIENS makes much more sense than DUDE SUPERMAN VIETNAM VETERAN KILLED TENS OF THOUSANDS. OH WELL HES ON MARS NOW, NO HARD FEELINGS AMERICA. The whole point of the alien squid comes from Reagan's speech about all of humanity coming together to fight an outside threat. Dr Manhattan is not "outside" he was born an American and fought in American wars.
Pure Kino
http://youtu.be/887VJCGocqg
Memes Aside, this intro is really cool
>>68595406
>The book makes logical sense for the world that it takes place in. The movie does not.
I bet you can't even a little bit articulate what you mean by that baseless shitpost.
>>68594541
literally the Reddit opinion.
>>68595469
Reddit hates Zack Snyder.
This movie was a masterpiece what the fuck is wrong with you people? Watch it again when you're over 25.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNXohNU3tWo
Watchmen is great, but MoS sucks and BvS is an unfocused mess
>>68595527
>2:01
FUCKING KINO
>>68595555
QUADS CONFIRM
No really, I totally agree.
>>68582366
Yeah. The fact that people are STILL arguing about Snyder and his work just goes to show you how significant he is as a director. He's definitely leaving his mark. Can't wait for what he has in store next so people can bitch about him even more.
>>68582799
>300
>good
HAHAHAHA NICE MEME
Not including the telepathic squid monster was a good call for a multitude of reasons, chief among them being:
1)It eliminated explaining how in a world without psychics, telepaths, and anything remotely superhuman, Ozymandias managed to create a telepathic monster.
2)It necessitated strikes in multiple nations instead of just a city on U.S. soil
If you don't buy that the world wouldn't view a rogue Manhattan as a global threat warranting global cooperation, then I guess it's also hard for you to buy why a goodly portion of terrorists originate in nations considered allies but other countries don't hold those nations directly accountable for their actions.
>>68595702
Dawn of the Dead was decent though.
>>68595406
I think I recognize your posting style from a recent BvS thread.
I don't know what it is EXACTLY, but there's SOMETHING that just KEEPS JUMPING OUT AT ME.
>>68595669
>>68595945
>Operation Kino, a fictional political coup to assassinate Adolf Hitler during a movie premiere in the 2009 flick Inglourious Basterds
So,everyone who uses the world "kino" is actually a cuck?
>>68588832
It's only because you have every rabid fanboys defending that movie and snyder.
There's 10-20 threads a day either to snyder or bvs defending it.
>>68596048
all Germans are cucks, I can assure that
>>68596048
only cucks think Tarantino is a cuck
Am I the only one excited for the watchmen HBO series?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen#TV_series
>>68589448
This.
>>68596254
fuck no my man. I want that.
>>68583396
wrong, if it understood Star Wars and what made it special there would have been no need to make a carbon copy.
>>68582568
for you
>>68596254
Why? There's no new material, just old one.
>>68596254
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen#TV_series
IF this happens and IF they do it right it could easily be my favorite show of all time.
>>68597272
>>68596254
Nevermind I spoke to soon. Should've clicked the link first.
> HBO is meeting with Snyder to
Dropped so fucking hard. At least he'll have the chance to redeem himself with the real ending.
>>68597344
his ending > comic ending.
>>68590086
>Ozymandias was somehow able to step outside that otherwise real-world setting and create a telepathic monster.
Theyre still superheros. Ozy is literally the smartest person on the planet with an inexhaustible amount of money. Also they repeatedly say how the monster was completely unstable and the technology was only possible because of Dr Manhattan.
The Watchmen universe is not really "real-world". Id agree with you if it was like Breaking Bad and the season finale had a giant squid save the day but its not.
Pic related
>>68597491
Not in any way. Honestly I could respect a different ending if it had some actual thought put into it but his doesn't Snyder made that ending because mainstream movie goers would have walked out of the theater if he kept the squid. He still left in the Lynx, Comedians "its all a joke" dialogue and The Black Freighter. It just shows he didn't care about material the same way he doesn't care about Superman or Batman now.
>>68581923
The film is absolute trash compared to the novel, fuck off
>>68596162
What did you say heretic?
>>68582005
Guardians of the Galaxy
>>68597650
yes
>>68582144
BVS
Why is he there?
>no exposition
How does he know that?
>no exposition
Why of all things would he do that?
>no exposition
What exactly did he gain from doing that?
>no exposition
How did that plotline tie into the narrative?
>no exposition
What's that mean?
>VIKRAM GHANDI: IS HE A MESSIANIC FIGGER LIKE JESUS OR DOES HE MAYBE WANT TO BE A NORMAL PERSON LIKE YOU OR ME?
>NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: WE KNOW THAT THERE IS INTELLIGENT LIFE OUT THERE, THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
>NANCY GRACE: WE'RE ALL SUPER MAD AT SUPPERMAN ABOUT THAT BOWMB WE WANT ANSWERS ABOUT THAT BOWMB IF HES INNOCENT WHY AINT HE TILLIN US BOUT THAT BOWMB
>JESUS IMAGERY
>JESUS IMAGERY
>LEX LUTHOR TALKS ABOUT SPACE DEMONS
>LEX LUTHOR TALKS ABOUT AHAB
>LEX LUTHOR TELLS ZOD'S CORPSE THAT HE WAS ICARUS
>JESUS IMAGERY
>JESUS IMAGERY
>CAMELOT REFERENCE
>FDR REFERENCE
>THE AMERICAN CONSCIENCE DIED WITH ROBERT, MARTIN, AND JOHN. WHERE'S MUH SPORTS, CLARK?
>>68594946
Stylistic with an emotional core and if that's what you're into, also try the Matrix, the Evil Dead series, and the Star Wars prequels.
FTFY
>>68598244
I liked the film but literally this
the exposition was fucking cut out of the film because it gave the film an R rating.
>>68597650
yes
>>68590086
>Ozymandias was somehow able to step outside that otherwise real-world setting and create a telepathic monster.
That's the point. As the story progressed to that point, shit became more and more "comic booky", with secret lairs in out of reach places, lots of over the top decorations fitting a villain, andpeaking with Bubastis and the Squid.
>>68598335
Yeah I kind of love the film now. Like you might love an autistic little brother or something. It's such a hot mess.
Or maybe it's just Stockholm Syndrome after forcing myself to watch it 13 times. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8HvW_BJgus
>>68587240
>Shit taste, the post
>>68597995
Point proven
>>68586950
yeah
>>68598565
I wouldnt go that far. I think the directors cut will be good since it was the original theatrical cut until 5 months before release. that's bad for almost any movie
>>68592785
Sort of, but it's a good ending given the context of when it was written and some of the themes it was playing to. The movie change was genuinely inspired.
>>68597611
Think of it in these terms. If he genetically engineered a monster, then that has to mean that he either discovered genes that control telepathic communication or he and his scientists created them. Now let's examine both paths.
If they exist in nature and knowing about the importance our own ability to efficiently communicate, wouldn't there be a huge number of telepathic species and wouldn't humanity already be among them?
If they were artificially created by the team, based on what? Not even Manhattan was shown exhibiting any telepathy and Veidt never demonstrated any either. Both possibilities imply that Veidt's researchers are capable of a level of genetic engineering unheard of even by today's standards. Was the telepathic squid the only avenue to peace they'd explored? It seems to me that introducing telepathy into the human gene pool would be an excellent way of bringing us all together.
Or he could just turn the populace against an extant, universally recognized "volunteer" threat, as happened in the movie.
>>68582144
>Expository dialogue
>Expository dialogue
>fight scene
Das the comic-book way mane.. Snyder just copy-pasted what was originally thought-bubble content (Exposition) and committed it without regard for the medium.
>>68599217
I think it has plenty of potential but yeah the theatrical release was mind-bogglingly fucked. And what bothers me the most is that they apparently primarily cut all out narrative-driven and expository scenes, but apparently cutting out the fucking Man-Bat and Pa Kent dreams was unthinkable. You should nail down a coherent story FIRST, and then put the poetic shit in. I really hate the Man-Bat dream. I hate that it awkwardly followed Lex's speech about Demons from the Sky, I hate that all it's not saying much other than basic Batman stuff, I hate that they thought that throwing that in would be enough to make the MARTHA shit play right.
The first act failed because he tried to hard to give equal focus to each storyline, constantly cutting from one character to the next every 2 minutes. Second act failed because most of the shit the characters do has nothing to do with the third act. And third act failed because of MARTHA and general Doomsday shit. When your movie ends with a giant cave troll blowing up shit in a big loud shitshow, telling a coherent story should be the primary focus on the way to get there. Not a bunch of vaguely relevant monologues and dreams and religious metaphors and allusions to ancient myths and shit. The movie got sabotaged in the edit, and the frustrating thing to me is that it seems like it wasn't the producers pulling the trigger. A producer would have dropped so much of the empty philosophy 101 shit and tried to make a boring story. A "visionary director" would cut the plot exposition in favor of muh dream sequences.
>>68598244
>i want my media spoonfed to me
Eh no, you are the idiot kid. We've had many debates and analysis on the meanings, significances and stylistic choices used in BvS, pages worth of debate but if you were more dedicated to cinema you'd certainly know that already right. Here you are merely having a mental fart. Sorry, but your meme arrows devoid of any substantive thought aren't arguments.
>>68589448
And yet it's still the only good film in the series since 1977, and doesn't take itself seriously enough to elicit the ire that it does. The notion that we can criticize it for not "catching the magic" of one of the greatest films of all time is absurd. Do you shit on movies for not being as good as Citizen Kane?
>>68599727
>We've had many debates and analysis on the meanings, significances and stylistic choices used in BvS
THE PROBLEM ISN'T WITH THE SYMBOLIC OR SUBTEXTUAL MEANING, SIGNIFICANCES, OR STYLISTIC CHOICES.
The problem is with basic storytelling competence. More people were debating whether or not the flash tease was supposed to be a dream or not, than actually talking about what the dream and the tease where supposed to be about or referencing. That's sloppy direction and terrible editing distracting the audience from the narrative. If your movie does that, your movie has failed.
When most of the "debates and analysis" are about basic expositional questions to try and make sense of the surface narrative, the movie is fucked. Nobody didn't get the subtext. They explicitly and overwhelmingly explain the underlying meaning, to a point where it's insulting to the audience. But when it comes to basic plot beats and building a story on itself, the movie falls flat on it's goddamn face. There's 30 minutes of content in the theatrical cut that could be removed without effecting the narrative. It's fat.
>but if you were more dedicated to cinema you'd certainly know that already right
I've watched the film 13 times m8. I've literally handwritten dozens of pages of notes on the movie. I've written dozens of pages of content about the movie on /tv/. I watched over 600 movies a year every year from 2001 to 2011. I have a BA in media studies and have worked in the production industry for 6 years. I'm pretty fucking "dedicated to cinema." Who are you again?
>but your meme arrows devoid of any substantive thought aren't arguments.
Said the high schooler using ad hominem and meme responses.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tv/search/filename/ah%20jeez.jpg/
There's some of the threads where I've posted questions that have arisen from the film to gauge responses. Most of them are like yours. 2smart4u, no true scotsman, ad hominem. Nice "debate" dipshit.
>>68583588
nice dubs
>>68599589
So you think he would choose the easy, simple and predictable method that anybody could easily figure out? People would immediately be posting conspiracy theories about it all over the internet (steel beams, etc.) within minutes if it happened in real life.
I get that the telepathic squid alien is completely ridiculous and far fetched but im saying it's more of a fool-proof plan than framing one of his old friends.
They could have also just left out the telepathy thing... that would have been a sensible alteration unlike the one we got.
>>68601082
and even if the world just believed that Manhattan was solely responsible everyone would still partially blame the US. He was an american scientists that got turned into a superhuman in an american experiment who then went on to WIN the Vietnam war using his god-like powers for America. I just dont buy that the entire world wouldn't have ill will towards America just because he fucked off to Mars. That defeats the entire purpose of Ozy's plan, to unite the world.
>>68600649
You are stating that Snyder's alternate style used to convey his complex take on the mythos was somehow "lacking" and naturally you are mistaken. In some scenes like that one you mentioned, the more relaxed form rather than intricate allowing for ambiguity is vastly superior technique considering the movie's aims.
You don't understand where this talk or what the movie was going for. You should try upping a little your minimal IQ and try reading comprehension, and also writing like someone who watches movies, instead of just spitting words that go way beyond logic. Then maybe you'll have something significant to brag about.
Either do that, or you can go back to making sophomoric three paragraph reviews in your empty blog site based on nothing but your small ideas of what a big movie like BvS should be like. You'll feel better with yourself, criticizing works you don't understand without anyone's reproval.
>>68599371
I like that Snyder referenced it with S.Q.U.I.D at the end, knowing that people would react at the change. He knew what he was doing and that he had to for several reasons
>>68599689
they cut out a Zod dream, a Supernightmare about the destruction of metropolis which is why Sups says "did the nightmares go away" and the death of Robin dream.
lotta dreams senpai and the worst one stayed in
>>68599689
also i should mention that the WB execs actually said they wanted the movie to be Batman focused after the assembly cut, which was also retarded considering this was originally MoS 2
>>68601312
>You are stating that Snyder's alternate style used to convey his complex take on the mythos was somehow "lacking"
STRAWMAN.
>and naturally you are mistaken.
BEGGING THE QUESTION
> In some scenes like that one you mentioned, the more relaxed form rather than intricate allowing for ambiguity is vastly superior technique considering the movie's aims.
Oh so the movie aimed to force audiences to question the direction instead of the content. It's a bad movie on purpose! Gotcha. I was unaware of the auteur style of incompetent presentation.
>You don't understand where this talk or what the movie was going for.
I most certainly do, youngfriend.
>You should try upping a little your minimal IQ
Generally it's suggested that IQ shouldn't really be "uppable." Granted it kind of is because at the end of the day it's the ability to take a test. I've gotten a few different scores. What's your IQ m80?
>and try reading comprehension
You first.
>and also writing like someone who watches movies,
You first.
>nstead of just spitting words that go way beyond logic.
basically all you're doing in this post.
>Then maybe you'll have something significant to brag about.
Said the person who has said absolutely nothing with a lot of words.
>Either do that, or you can go back to making sophomoric three paragraph reviews
Said the dude that literally just gave me a sophomoric three paragraph review.
>based on nothing but your small ideas of what a big movie like BvS should be like.
You have fully illustrated that you have absolutely no ideas about anything. Who are you to talk?
>You'll feel better with yourself, criticizing works you don't understand without anyone's reproval.
Are you 16? Have you gotten your driver's permit yet? Who you gonna ask to the big dance?
>>68601372
Now that's bothersome to me that in the writing and production phase they really thought that this $250 million tentpole movie would be able to function with 5 or 6 goddamn dream sequences. I get that the opening poem sets up dreams as a recurring motif but goddamn. I honestly think that WB probably thought that TDK and Inception both worked, so "lets try and combine those things for BVS, but let's give it to the sequence and storyboard guy and hope that it somehow forms a coherent movie."
>>68601411
IMO the movie would be better if it focused almost exclusively on Batman in the first act. Very little of the Clark Kent or LL scenes matter at all. Almost every Daily Planet scene, while great for meme-potential, is a total energy suck in the movie. Let's just bring things to a halt while Perry yells about sports and says """""deep""""" horseshit.
When the BRrip comes out I'm going to see how it could play out if you edited things episodically rather than endlessly jumping around. Follow only BW up to the party in one tied together sequence that combines all of the dreams and the prologue into one cohesive mini-story. Follow Lex after the party up to where he's about to blow up congress, then idk go from there. A lot of stuff, even if you just moved it on the timeline, would make the movie more coherent. Like I'm pretty sure in the script Lex doesn't get access to the ship or Zod's body in the first act. Just move that shit to after he splodes congress and you've automatically created a reason for him to have blown up goddamn congress, other than being insulted by the Senator and wanting to give Supes bad PR.
Superhero movies are all literally shit. Everyone who disagrees is a dumb faggot capecuck and should kill himself.
>>68601764
Why should I waste any further words on an unintelligent pretense of a human being such as yourself? Clearly your arguments and meme arrows have already deemed yourself intellectually incapable. Begone, capeshitter.
>>68602540
>that dismissal of defeat
capekek
I liked Watchmen but people are too autistic over it, not close enough to the source, strays too much from the source. Shitty ending, ending change was necessary, etc etc
>>68602540
>Why should I waste any further words on an unintelligent pretense of a human being such as yourself?
Because you're hear to practice your English? I don't know. Why is that my problem?
>Clearly your arguments
You're not making any arguments bruh.
>and meme arrows
is this a translation error? The fuck is a meme arrow?
>have already deemed yourself intellectually incapable.
Are you from Scandinavia? Or do you just talk like a person trying to sound like they're good at English?
>Begone, capeshitter.
Said the dude trying to pretend that a poorly executed movie about BATMAN V SUPERMAN is a cinematic masterpiece.
>>68602353
>image.jpg
>>68582005
name a dc movie better than watchmen
>>68602293
The sports bit was leading to a cut out scene where Clark investigates Blackgate prisoners who got the shit kicked in by Batman
knowing the differences between Watchmen Theatrical and Watchmen Director's cut, i have a feeling the biggest blunder of Warner bros this year will be that they forced last minute cuts that removed exposition, motive, and establishing shots. the third being something Snyder does well
>>68603048
>sperging out over a filename
>>68603510
To me it's not that there was a sports bit, it's that there were 3 different sports bits. There are 2 different scenes where Clark is like I wanna do a Batman thing and Perry A: says some weirdly existential shit, and B: demands that Clark do sports.
There are so many unnecessary Daily Planet scenes. There's 90 seconds dedicated to Perry noticing Clark isn't at work and Kansas Quip to set up Clark in Kansas. It's not like the fucking joke played.
>they forced last minute cuts that removed exposition,
apparently they also threw in the flash tease at the last minute too. Which seems more than likely, considering how awkwardly that plays out.
>and establishing shots.
this for sure.
>>68581923
>tfw there are people retarded enough to consider this trash worth watching.
There needs to be a culling.
>>68603852
I think it was more or less trying to please the people who hated MoS with comic relief, which i thought Perry was funny, but he is rather unneeded most of the film
>>68599593
This
>>68602981
The one change I liked was the overall visual style, which was basing itself over the 89 to 97 Batman movies, which was pretty cool imo.
>>68603941
>please the people who hated MoS with comic relief
Yeah there are good amount of QUIPS when I think about it. I can't immediately think of any that really played in the theaters. Someone groaned after the "I can tell from the cape" quip.
>Which i thought Perry was funny
He's my second favorite thing in the movie. He acts the fuck out of his lines. He really puts the effort in to make that shit work.
I don't think it worked at all with the chopper on the roof shit. Still don't know if he is supposed to figure out that Clark is Superman, or if they just were just doing a thoughtless bit. Like that certainly seems like that's the whole Perry arc in the movie, but fucking hell with the >implications required for his scenes to make sense or have purpose.
>>68604674
I liked the quips. if you're going to quip do it Sam raimi, self aware style.
It's weird because the acting and cinematography i really enjoied, i know Lex and Lois weren't well received but the script mainly fucked them over
I think Perry knows (or at least thinks) it because he saw Superman up close kissing Lois in MoS.
>>68604777
Holy trips
Kek has blessed you
Malin Akerman was fucking hot in this movie not gonna lie. She should go back to being a brunette
>>68601312
Yes i have a problem with the symbolism in story . in this case it was not done in a way to add any real depth. It was just he represents this and thats it. If you took away the symbolism/iconography you really wouldn't loose any meaning. On topod that the coherent story wasnt there so you're now left with a choice to "dude symbolism" or follow the story and notice the glaring faults this movie had.
>>68604777
Snyder needs a co-director. Snyder Visuals with Nolan's focused, big picture shit and creative editing would be amazing.
>i know Lex and Lois weren't well received
Yeah I thought their performances defintely weren't terrible. My problem with Lex is A: the dialogue and B: the name. I don't think that level of "reinterpretation" of the character worked that well. He's a Ledger Joker clone in terms of plot device, and thematic shit delivery system.
>but the script mainly fucked them over
Yeah I don't know if there's an edit that fixed MARTHA. No matter what subtext or exposition, the conflict turns on a dime because they're moms both have the same name. It's too stupid at the surface for any context or subtext to make up for it.
>I think Perry knows (or at least thinks) it because he saw Superman up close kissing Lois in MoS.
Yeah thats part of whats annoying about it, he obviously should know that CK is Superman, he looks at him and pictures of Superman every day. So are we supposed to assume he always knew? Are we watching him figure it out over the movie?
I think a lot of it is that the first act is too ambiguous. You need a concrete set-up, and THEN you can go ambiguous with the story. But when you don't know what exactly you're supposed to be asking, none of the scenes have purpose.
>>68600565
Oh, I agree, but it's equally undeserving of the excessive praise I see frequently. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it, but the inevitable comparisons to the OT are what left me feeling somewhat underwhelmed by it.
>>68589448
>capture anything but the faintest echo of the magic.
Strong bullshit on that. You're viewing it from the contrarian /tv/ perspective and comparing it to something you probably saw when you weren't a cynical memesman.
>I knew exactly what they were going for, and knowing only made it seem all the more hollow and contrived.
>I watched a kids movie from the perspective of a person with enough of an understanding of movies to recognize tropes but not enough of an understanding yet to appreciate them.
>>68600649
As someone who's answered every question in that list to the best of my ability, using as little deductive reasoning as possible and only actions shown on-screen in these posts:
>>68537181
>>68537563
>>68538143
>>68538360
>>68538444
>>68538867
>>68539275
>>68539515
Not saying that I'm sort of final authority or anything, by any means, but there are several of those questions that are explicitly answered without having to delve too deeply into the minutiae of the film.
Is there a way to add them to your archive on 4plebs? If so, just let me know and I'll be happy to do it.
I'm not saying it's you, but there's someone who likes to repost them in pretty much every thread about BvS and it's become something of a Gish Gallop that brings all other conversation to a halt. I've seen people use that somewhat underhanded debating topic before in defense of Flat Earth conspiracists on /x].
>>68581923
Because it still feels like nothing happened at the end of Watchmen same with BVS
>>68607773
>topic>tactic
>>68601082
>>68601183
Don't fail to consider this:
We knew a lot more about DNA than we knew in the time when Watchmen was written, so the "alien" containing nothing but terrestrial DNA would have looked rather suspect to at least *some* segment of the viewing audience.
As far as conspiracies go, people are going to go nuts with conspiracies in the aftermath of a tragedy regardless of the scapegoat. While I agree, that globally, individuals would undoubtedly harbor some ill will towards the U.S. based off nothing more than Manhattan's nationality and role in U.S. policy, governments tend to keep cooler heads. The overwhelming majority of terrorists' home countries aren't even enemies, officially.
>>68607773
>Not saying that I'm sort of final authority or anything, by any means, but there are several of those questions that are explicitly answered without having to delve too deeply into the minutiae of the film.
I know there are a lot of questions that can pretty easily be assumed, but that doesn't mean they're not still questions that the audience had to confront while watching the movie.
And many of them were may seem obvious until you ask the questions they lead into. A lot of the questions build on each other. Kind of a socratic approach to studying movies.
The White Portuguese thing is a good example of how there isn't really an answer when you ask more than one question. He didn't know that Lex or Lexcorp ware involved until right before the party. But at that time the only people who knew what Kryptonite was or what Kryptonite did would have been Lexcorp employees and a few people in the government. What thug did he beat up that knew what Kryptonite did to Zod's body in a top secret test? So if he didn't know about Zod's involvement, he wouldn't have known what Kryptonite did, so why would he have interested in figuring out if it was being smuggled? And how would he even know it's being smuggled in when he didn't know where it was going, who was doing it, or how it was arriving?
That's the inciting action in the batman story and why and how he has the information isn't established. That's what I mean when I talk about being way too ambiguous in the first act. You need to put the pieces on the board for the game to make any sense.
And also many of your answers are wrong.
>>68608274
Understood. What answers in specific do you find lacking? I'll defend them if you're interested.
>>68608274
Not to go overboard with the headcanon here, but I'd been working off the assumption Bruce had a source within the government. That would explain how he knew about the existence of kryptonite, possibly even how he knew Lex was seeking an import license for it, but without knowing the means of delivery, he'd then be reliant on data on Lex's side of the fence to plan a hijacking.
I totally agree that that would have been excellent information to leave in, though.
>>68608443
I mean, most of them are generally "lacking." They mostly require answers that require speculation about things not shown and often barely even >implied.
And the point isn't that movies aren't allowed to require a level of speculation and subtly and implication, it's that the audience is constantly forced to do that about what should be basic plot shit. Everyone is too busy talking about whether or not the Flash tease was a dream to bother giving a shit about what the dream or the warning was about. idk I may use the day off tomorrow to make update the list.
>>68608632
>but I'd been working off the assumption Bruce had a source within the government.
Yeah that's really the only way that it makes sense. But why would a government schmo know that it was being smuggled in by Russian gangsters?
>he'd then be reliant on data on Lex's side
Exactly. I haven't put together a way that he knew what Kryptonite did and that it was being smuggled without knowing that the White Portuguese was a boat and that Lex was involved, other than that they wanted him to do detective shit leading to discovering Lex, and didn't bother sussing it out or breaking the story.
It probably is something that could be resolved with one line of dialogue too.
>>68608976
Forgive me for saying so, but these aren't criticisms you're leveling strictly at this movie, are you? Because there are untold heaping tons of exactly these same sorts of oversights in films across a broad range of genres.
I'm not saying that makes them all right. I'm just saying that attacking these specific points, at least to the level of Socratic leading, would dismantle a goodly portion of the films produced of late.
reminder that a graphic novel is not a comic
>>68609299
True enough, but to be fair, the writer of this particular graphic novel considered the term to be a marketing gimmick.
http://www.blather.net/projects/alan-moore-interview/northhampton-graphic-novel/
>>68609287
>Because there are untold heaping tons of exactly these same sorts of oversights in films across a broad range of genres
Absolutely. All films are flawed, but with BvS to me it's the tyranny of small decisions. It's the staggering amount of questionable shit where it starts to separate itself from the pack. Like look at TDKR: how he got back to Gotham, how they thought the plane would look like a crash, how they got the bikes into the wall street bank etc kinda seem like small change compared to BvS.
>I'm just saying that attacking these specific points, at least to the level of Socratic leading, would dismantle a goodly portion of the films produced of late.
Yeah sure. Like I've never bothered trying to apply that level of scrutiny to marvelshit, primarily because it aint asking for it. When you make your Batman movie so self-important and hint at so many lofty ideas you're inviting a much more critical judgement. It aspired to greater things, while kind of being a bit insulting to the audience with the ""subtext"" and everything else.
I also have this fucking obsessive compulsive need to isolate and exactly understand the fucky things. IMO you learn a lot more about filmmaking and writing from movies that that are poorly received and/or generally fucked up. Fan4tastic was interesting but it only had a couple hints at greatness, whereas BvS is full of some really great shit and almost all of it had a whole lot of potential. There's a lot of stuff that was *this* close to working, and a lot of stuff that I think would have been fixed with a different approach to the editing.
>>68609777
I understand. I'm reasonably sure you and I have spoken before. Assuming you're who I think you are, have you given any further thought to the possibility that what the overt imagery is there to convey is a subtly different theme than the one generally held to be the case?
>watchmen came out 7 years ago
>>68609299
That's exactly what a graphic novel is, actually. Watchmen, specifically, is the collected edition of 12 individual issues that were released monthly.
>>68609299
novel with graphics in it
book with pictures
novels arn't some high-art achievement
>>68609883
>have you given any further thought to the possibility that what the overt imagery is there to convey is a subtly different theme than the one generally held to be the case?
idk if that was me. Like do you mean that the bluntness of the imagery is the point?
I could see the news shit as being an attempt at subtle satire along the lines of the function that news served in Robocop. Actually I'm sure he probably was going for a Robocop thing with the news, at least as a thematic exposition delivery service.
Zack Snyder doesn't have the intellectual capacity to even understand Watchmen, much less adapt it. Every single change he made demonstrated a complete inability to grasp the source material, and was only in service of making things "cooler" because that's literally all he's capable of doing. The only thing he achieved with Watchmen was turning legitimate art into pulpy trash. At least it was enjoyable pulpy trash, though, which is more than I can say for any of his subsequent films.
>>68610078
Allow me to clarify.
There was a point in BvS where a particular image stuck with me, really made a lasting impression, and it made me go back and review MoS to see if it was a carry-through motif. Now I'm pretty sure it is. It's the conditions under which we see the "ham-fisted" religious imagery.
In every case, it's in a context where it could be construed that someone present is thinking of Superman as a god. The first clear-cut example is the priest from MoS, It's only after he mentions who he is that we start seeing him framed with the image of Christ in the background. The framing in that entire scene is interesting when viewed with that provisional understanding. It's even mirrored, beginning with Clark speaking with the priest silhouetted against a plain, white background, and it concludes in precisely the same way, almost as if to indicate the priest's shifting opinions of Clark over the course of the conversation.
It's the first time we see it that in-your-face in the film, and might actually be there, framed in precisely that way, to serve as sort of a primer.
>>68610300
>someone present is thinking of Superman as a god
More to the point, thinking of him as "otherworldly," god-like.
>>68582144
This is why people want every movie to be Kino (literally just images), they hate dialogue, and unless it's the mindless non concerning dialogue that Tarantino has at every meal, then it's 'pointless' expository.
It's not a dub over, it's not text between scenes, it's literally characters, talking, in the scenes. and it's 'annoying'.
you'll one day notice this pattern in opening IP movies. If only there was something between a TV show and a Movie.
>>68610300
>with the priest silhouetted against a plain, white background
It's late. I meant Clark.
>>68588701
>people having to actually survive in a mall rather than joke around for commentary sake
You've never actually seen the original have you?
>>68594491
It showed the various different ways in which absolute power corrupts people, either to the detriment of themselves or the people around them.
>>68610300
Yeah I'm thinking I may rewatch MOS tomorrow. The church stuff gets a lot of shit for pic related, but yeah he's definitely not bad at building a scene.
>In every case, it's in a context where it could be construed that someone present is thinking of Superman as a god.
Yeah there's a lot of stuff to me that hints at the awe and power that he seems to project, and to me it's kind of a thing that was done in a half measure. Like both movies feature stuff that kind of makes you imagine that it would FEEL really unsettling being near him.
But it does it in kind of a half measure because most of MOS is spent trying to humanize him and build empathy for him but then they also want to have him be like a mind-blowing godly alien, and they clash. And in BvS it's even more like that, particularly with his hero montage. I think you could do a version of MOS where he's only presented as this terrifying alien up until MARTHA. idk though. Like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhwWAciO6F4 is pretty cliched but that kind of score with the hero montage or something could be more effective at demonstrating the awe he causes.
Honestly al the alien god shit would have so much better as a martian manhunter movie. That dude is inherently more intense and godly or whatever. Make MM Space Jesus and Superman the Ubermensch. Like god intended.
>>68599589
>It seems to me that introducing telepathy into the human gene pool would be an excellent way of bringing us all together.
It seems to me that the result would be the exact opposite of that.
>>68600565
>Empire Strikes Back & Return of the Jedi weren't good
Opinion discarded.
>>68601312
>You should try upping a little your minimal IQ and try reading comprehension
>try upping a little your minimal IQ
???
Did you mean raise? Why did you say upping? Were you pretending to be retarded?
>>68607773
>
I'm not saying it's you, but there's someone who likes to repost them in pretty much every thread about BvS and it's become something of a Gish Gallop that brings all other conversation to a halt
>Gish Gallop
That's called "spreading" now anon and it's the accepted way to win debates.
>>68610931
From my point of view, it's not there to remind us that Clark's god-like. It's there to serve as a barometer to gauge how well Superman is struggling against this god-like image. When it's absent, it means he's won that round and all present are seeing past the god-like aura to the man underneath it.
His appearances after his return will be very interesting in that regard. From my perspective, he simultaneously won and lost with Bruce, bringing him back to his ideals by his heroic example, but also the only person present at the end would be deifying him is Bruce himself, in essence becoming Superman's "Paul the Apostle" in the process.
>>68611220
In any given format or just the policy debates I'm reading up on right now?
https://www.google.com/#q=debate+spreading
A debate should be won solely on how competently you can defend your position, not on the speed of your oration. Relying on nothing but that, the guy that used to do the old "Micro Machines" commercials would be world champion, regardless of the validity of what he's saying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2egGfd5j_k
>>68611260
>in essence becoming Superman's "Paul the Apostle" in the process.
So Superman is Jesus. Is the Justice League gonna be the Catholic Church? I could picture them backing away from a lot of it after the resurrection, just because the jesus thing gets muddied when you're throwing in sea jesus and amazonian lady jesus and time jesus.
And is Batman supposed to be Arthur or Supes? Batman pulls the Excalibur Ahab spear from the concrete, but supes get it out of the inexplicable industrial warehouse lake with the help of Lois of the Lake. And I guess since Bats is forming the Knights of the Justice League wouldn't that make him Arthur, or is he supposed to be Lancelot doing the legwork for undead Arthur?
>>68611689
My point is that Bruce might be about to swing back completely in the other direction, much like Paul did a complete 180 from being a persecutor of Christians to their foremost advocate. and being a lot more zealous in his support of Superman than Superman even wants.
>And is Batman supposed to be Arthur or Supes?
I think there's a bit of both in each of them.
In my interpretation, Bruce *thinks* he's being the hero(Arthur), but when he realizes he's become Ahab, he throws the spear away in disgust.
When Clark picks it up, he reaffirms his role as a hero(Arthur), not a god, but then goes out to stab the personification of the guilt he's been obsessing over for two years(Doomsday), dying in the process(Ahab).
>>68611895
>My point is that Bruce might be about to swing back completely in the other direction, much like Paul did a complete 180 from being a persecutor of Christians to their foremost advocate. and being a lot more zealous in his support of Superman than Superman even wants.
Oh sure that definitely makes sense. Sucks that the Martha thing will always be the defining turning point but yeah that definitely seems fitting otherwise.
I wonder if they'll keep up with jacking beats from the TDK trilogy in JLA. Dent's death lead to creation of Dent Act, Supe's death leads to creatin of JLA. Dent Act fed Banes ability to recruit an army, JLA I guess will be the inciting cause of whichever villain is supposed to be in in 1.
>When Clark picks it up, he reaffirms his role as a hero(Arthur), not a god, but then goes out to stab the personification of the guilt he's been obsessing over for two years(Doomsday), dying in the process(Ahab).
I guess I'll buy that for the dollar. Doomsday is literally the monster of the personification of the MOS finale that he'd apparently been depressed about the whole movie after all. The whole Doomsday setup is one of things that I think was a was and is a good idea on paper but muffed it on the execution. Mostly because a lot of the Lex shit kind of muddied the water. Maybe the directors cut will be great and will fully commit to the Superman shit. Maybe it'll be the next Bladerunner deal where it didn't really become a great movie until like 10 years later.
>>68612673
I'm really excited for the director's cut, and here's one other thing that I loved.
With all the folks screaming about all the overdone symbolism, apparently not many people caught the fact that at one point during the fight, Doomsday picks up a piece of the wall from Clark's monument and beats him over the head with it.
Earlier, we see a close-up of it when the guard defaces the monument. That wall is covered in the victims' names.
