How is it Marvel can turn a D-list superhero into one of the best sellers of all time, but DC can't even get it right with Superman?
Bumping just in case people somehow accidentally missed this amazing thread
They chose the wrong color filters.
/thread
Because they chose Henry "I have no charisma and I get a boner on set" Cavill as Superman and hire hacks to write/direct it.
They don't put care into their product.
>>68236682
Henry if you're reading this don't listen to this faggot
![henry-cavill-trolling-happens[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/QkK6jML.jpg "henry-cavill-trolling-happens[1].jpg")
>>68236682
Try harder Henry
We all know you made Christopher Reeves proud
>>68236603
That's partly right. They think the key to making "dark" films is making everything look visually darker.
>>68236682
>and I get a boner on set
What's this now
>>68236970
He mentioned in an article once how he got wood during a sex scene and was embarrassed
>>68237016
>its not normal to get a stiffy when simulating sex with a mostly naked girl
britcucks everyone
>>68236885
think that might just be zack snyder saying "ooh I like that one" when scrolling through filters.
because DC has no idea what its doing. really.
they're throwing stuff at the wall and seeing if anything sticks. they have no plan, see the announcement of batffleck all of a sudden or how they're trying to make suicide squad more audience friendly after its already finished shooting.
>>68237167
Suicide Squad reshoots are for action scenes bro. you think they can just reshoot scenes to add gags 2 weeks after BvS' release? nah brah
>>68236403
>take a character iconic for his red cape and blue suit
>make it all grey
>>68237167
>they have no plan, see the announcement of batffleck all of a sudden
They were considering this since the middle of the last year and there were already rumors from reliable sites like Variety
>>68236403
Because Disney pays critics
https://es.scribd.com/doc/308457900/Tweet-List
Because a character like Superman is so universally known that everyone has their own ideas or opinions as to how they should be in a movie. Most of these opinions are skewed by them just wanting a rehash of Christopher Reeve Superman instead of taking inspiration from the source material. As soon as they show a different take on him in the movie everyone loses their shit because 'its not what I wanted it to be'. They'll never please everyone.
Iron man no-one gave a shit about so they could just do what they wanted and have everyone accept it.
tldr; people are stubborn idiots who complain when they don't get exactly what they want.
>>68237167
>>68236403
Marvel also has one guy who oversees everything from casting to scripts and directors and who knows what he's doing, what character motivation is and how their characters should behave. Feige's email to Sony when he tries to explain them why ASM2 is shit and how to fix it(they obviously didn't listen) show everything you need to know about him.
DC, just like Sony, uses a board of execs who have no fucking idea what they're doing. And Snyder is an idiot who probaly reads only Moor and Miller comics and misunderstand them
>>68237290
what actually is this
>>68236403
Because IM was never iconic therefore lower cost, plus an actor looking for a comeback equals a nice profit. They tried a supes reboot before mos, male teens hated it but adults (donner era critics) loved it.
WB best shot is to give films to B characters that will eventually interact with their main headliners( even if it is a 5 min shot).
I would hope for: Booster Gold, the question, Batman teaming up with a reclusive green arrow, martian manhunter (as an undercover dt).
>>68236403
WB is just fucking incompetent.
They were playing on easy mode from the getgo.
Marvel had sold off its biggest guns, Spider-Man and the X-Men, and were forced to make do with superheroes even Marvel didn't know what the fuck to do with(and outside of film and television, still don't).
WB had a full deck, shittons of good will from television productions, to say nothing of the absolute best superhero production in the form of the DCAU, Nolan's films, shit even Superman Returns did better than Batman Begins at the box office so it's not like people were unreceptive to Superman, to say nothing of being able to use much higher profile superheroes and a stronger library of plotlines and villains to pull from.
Man of Steel was mediocre and still somehow made 660 million at the box office. How bad do you have to fuck up that you aren't making billions of fucking dollars with a big budget live action film about Batman and Superman?
>>68237567
this also.
>>68237567
This. Absolutely this.
Nolan did something different and they just took for granted that someone else could ride his wave. But Nolan's realistic style really only works for a Batman, and what more a Batman that exists in a non justice league world. They got greedy and wanted to get their cinematic universe without putting in any work.
>>68236403
Different times. Iron-man is a rich cynic asshole who does good in the cynism age when individualism and materialism is on the rise.
Superman is a boy-scout. I mean he was okay when murrika was all about being the leaders, reconstructing the world, being good and being great. But how do you make that character viable nowadays?
I was surprised with cap success though. They made it work with him being actually from the past. Brilliant. He's literally make america great again the character. Because even when people think the world is shit, they still want to BELIEVE
t. Not murrikan
>>68236757
top kek
>>68238517
You can't make that character viable, that's the problem. They should have ignored him for at least the first bunch of movies and built up their other characters.
Is Iron Man 1 one of the best capekinos?
>>68238657
But superman is DC main face. You can't simply ignore him specially if you want to set up Justice League. Like where was supes when all the shit was happening?
And I guess they thought about this. They though about how boy-scout superman wasn't viable and obviously they couldn't play the same trick as marvel. So they made him a tragic hero, which is fine, they even got this I WANT TO BELIEVE thing right, but they failed at execution.
Idk its hard. Honestly I don't know how I could have done it better. Maybe superman is unviable as you say.
>>68237016
Someone got a boner during a sex scene, wow how bonkers!
>casting a balding Superman
>>68238517
Christopher Reeve's Superman came out in fucking 1978. The US was still reeling from Vietnam, a president had just resigned a few years prior, oil crisis, economic problems, you fucking name it.
Superman himself debuted in the middle of the Great Depression in 1938, as fascists were marching across Europe and Asia.
An optimistic and hopeful champion of the oppressed and the needy would've always gone over well, and at the bare minimum be better than the dreary Man of Steel. Not to mention a Superman that's more consistently upbeat and in a better mood would be more at home for Cavill.
Iron Man 1 was actually a pretty good film
everything is popular because its mindless fun
>DKEK REEEEEEEE
Marvel did a good job with the first iron man movie and has been coasting since then and people just like dumb mindless films.
DC did a great job with the Nolan Batman movies and they think people liked that type of film, not realizing it basically only works for Batman and Nolan was actually trying to make a good movie (okay except for the third one where no one involved cared)
Basically they wanted to "phone it in" like marvel does but you can't half ass in the "batman style".
You can fuck around and push out Popcorn flicks forever and no one will notice.
I know capeshitters will say that i am "Buttmad" or a DC cuck...but ask yourself this...have you ever watched a marvel film twice?
I'm not saying they are bad but they are very formulaic.
>>68239258
But there's no real enemy right now. People live confy lives with stupid standards that make them feel bad because they don't have the latest smartphone. Everything is dull and materialistic, there's no inner struggle, no essence, no soul. That's why I say this is the age of cynism.
A dude being all positive and friendly sounds stupid.
Maybe I'm just biased.
>>68237567
>WB is just fucking incompetent.
>They were playing on easy mode from the getgo.
>Marvel had sold off its biggest guns, Spider-Man and the X-Men, and were forced to make do with superheroes even Marvel didn't know what the fuck to do with(and outside of film and television, still don't).
>WB had a full deck, shittons of good will from television productions, to say nothing of the absolute best superhero production in the form of the DCAU, Nolan's films, shit even Superman Returns did better than Batman Begins at the box office so it's not like people were unreceptive to Superman, to say nothing of being able to use much higher profile superheroes and a stronger library of plotlines and villains to pull from.
>Man of Steel was mediocre and still somehow made 660 million at the box office. How bad do you have to fuck up that you aren't making billions of fucking dollars with a big budget live action film about Batman and Superman?
Timmverse is one of the best shared universes, btas, Stas and JL cartoons were great
>>68237567
/thread
>>68237290
DC KEKS ACTUALLY BELIEVE THIS
>>68238517
>Superman is a boy-scout. I mean he was okay when murrika was all about being the leaders, reconstructing the world, being good and being great. But how do you make that character viable nowadays?
Pic related.
You focus the movie on the plot, how he struggles to fit into the ideas of the modern world, but how he refuses to budge and change.
You don't just do a sad, slow motion montage where he looks depressed saving people from a building.
A skilled film maker could easily make Superman work
>>68239719
they already made it work with Christopher Reeve
>>68236682
Basically this. I know mocking RDJ is one of /tv/'s favorite pastimes but the guy is charismatic as fuck and a great actor. Cavill can barely even maintain his American accent.
>>68239363
I have, most of them. The ones I've watched the least are Hulk and the Thor movies. Iron Man 3 has to be seen twice to really set in.
>>68237567
Why the fuck did they pick Zack Snyder of all people to make their cinematic universe?
>>68237290
Why would Sony not pay critics?
>>68240167
shouldn't have gone with Iron Man 3 and I would have believed you.
>>68239363
i watched winter soldier twice because it was good
>>68236403
Their creative team is sub-par and the project overseer is clueless.
>>68240559
Because they literally just invent critics, e.g. David Manning.
>>68236403
Iron Man was never D-list though. I remember as a kid his cartoons were my favourite second only to Spider-Man.
>>68236403
Simple, nobody expects anything about Iron Man, Cap, Thor, whatever because they are not familiar characters to them.
That's why nobody bitched about Tony not being alcoholic, Cap not fighting Nazis and Hittler, Bruce Banner being kind of a non character, etc.
While people can't let go of Christopher Reeve as Superman like 40 years after the fact
>>68240290
I honestly think Zack Snyder isn't the problem, his visual style works of this universe. No, the problem is the script to which I blame Goyer who seems to have a finger in every pie DC has made over the past decade.
>>68241146
Bull. Fucking. Shit.
>>68241289
Fuck you too. You can't tell me what I like.
>>68241146
I'll give you low C-list.
>>68237567
>Marvel had sold off its biggest guns, Spider-Man and the X-Men, and were forced to make do with superheroes even Marvel didn't know what the fuck to do with
this is why Marvel is winning. They were forced to think outside the box and make do with other properties. If they still had Spider-Man or Wolverine at the beginning it would've just been Spider-Man constant reboots and Wolverine bullshit until the comic book movie "fad" was rendered over.
Ironically I bet you would've seen a Spider-Man vs. the X-Men movie as a last ditch attempt to keep the genre alive
>>68241289
How is that so hard to believe?
Biggest problem is these films take themselves too seriously.
Whatever higher aspirations people can have about comic book films they're ultimately about power fantasies and escapism. I know it's a dirty word but they should be fun, especially in the franchise building stages. You can get dark and brooding as your characters and story progress and mature but in the earlier stages it should be fun and whimsical.
>>68241370
>They were forced to think outside the box
Not really. They just made everybody Spider-Man.
>>68236831
Just... just look at the top of his head.
>>68236403
HACK THE ZACK
>>68236403
Because
>Iron Man is vulnerable, flawed, technologically understandable, and therefore interesting
>Superman is a powerful archetype that represents an idea from a LOOOOONG time ago, and may not be relevant to today.
Consider how Christianity has been doing in Europe and (lately) the US. A Christ figure is difficult to relate-to, especially if he's present, real and unable to help humanity ascend. He can save your life, but he can't make your life better.
>>68239509
>A dude being all positive and friendly sounds stupid.
Oh, is that why everybody cares about this superman?
Is that why the dark and edgy and gritty BvS was so praised?
Is that why everyone hates the campy and upbeat "dumb is fun" vibe of the Marvel movies?
Is that why GotG (a fucking talking tree and a talking raccoon, a green chic, a dumb strongman and a meme clown) failed so much on theathers?
Oh wait...
>>68241474
No they didn't. Nobody's like Spider-Man just because MUH QUIPS
I'm still wondering why Marvel hasn't been able top their first Iron Man movie after all these years. And don't say Winter Soldier because as good as it was, the entire third act fell flat.
>>68241271
Snyder is the problem, he is all surface and nothing more. He has no vision.
>>68241609
Iron Man 1's not even the best Iron Man movie.
>>68241609
>And don't say Winter Soldier because as good as it was, the entire third act fell flat.
because forcing Iron Man to fight a biggerer Iron Man is competent story-telling
>>68241632
I'd say it still comes back to the script. He's capable of making a good movie (300 was pretty well liked by audiences) but he needs the right team to work with: Goyer clearly isn't it.
>>68241707
No, but it creates a sense of threat that no other Marvel movie has been able to sustain past the middle.
>>68237567
That's what's so bizarre. The 70s/80s Superman movies are very entrenched in popular consciousness. Batman, despite Batman&Robin, has had a fantastic ride in the movie world. To say nothing of the very fact that those two characters are woven into the very fabric of pop culture. There are Amazonian tribes that have never seen civilized people, yet know about these characters.
Setting up a shared movie universe should have been easy as hell. There was hardly anything to fucking set up! We know Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Aquaman even if we've never read a single comic book in our lives. Just make it not suck.
Marvel needed to play the long game. Pre-movie Iron Man, Thor , Captain America were AT BEST C-list in terms of overall recognition. Hulk and Spidey were all Marvel had that even approached Superman/Batman levels of mass familiarity. And ontop of all that, Marvel needed to explain the Whos and Whats because Marvel didn't even have movie rights to most of their own damned characters!!.
DC/WB had it in the bag and STILL fucked it up.
>>68241541
Please, people will always relate to all-powerful archetypes as a father figure. Superman can be a boy-scout and people will see him as, precisely that, a SUPERMAN. The perfect man, the all-good, the idea of what we all wish we could be. Why is this guy so angry and gritty when he can fly and never gets sick, and save people from drowning, and save cats from trees and babies from fires is fucking stupid.
He is a dude from Kansas, doing what is right.
Superman is human. He feels human, he calls earth "mother", he was raised with friends, he fell in love with a terrestrial girl, he was humble because he was a farmer raised on moral traditions.
He is not an alien. He is the adopted child of planet earth.
Iron Man in the comics was a serious and alcoholic anti-communist industrialist and weapon manufactor. People also didn't knew that Tony Stark was Iron Man. They thought that Iron Man was his body-guard.
Now i ask you, is RDJ's Iron Man anything like that? No. PEOPLE DIDN'T KNEW SHIT ABOUT IRON MAN.
But everybody knows Superman and have their own idea of how he should be portrayed. You have to be really careful with a Superman movie.
>>68236403
Man of Iron > Man of Steel
Pottery.
I wish Marvel and DC weren't separate companies so I can cherry pick my own Avengers/Justice League team...
>>68241923
Explain why The Incredible Hulk wasn't a success them.
I mean, Hulk was known, right? He should have been Marvel's biggest success. It was in the bag as you say it. How could Marvel fuck it up with their most well-known character after Spider-Man?
Spider-Man: Home-Coming better be bigger than Iron Man movies too. Nothing less than a billion in the box office.
>>68242001
How can Superman be an all-powerful archetype who never gets sick and should never be angry or said and still be treated as a human character?
You're contradicting yourself.
>>68242171
The problem with the Hulk is you lose the actor as soon as he transforms. Short of finding a big enough guy to portray him with makup (which is impossible) there's just no good way of doing the character.
>>68242171
Hulk 2003 did fairly well against all the hate it was getting at the time and Ed Norton sort of sabotaged the Incredible Hulk movie by not promoting it on the circuit. Besides, that's my point-- one of Marvel's most recognizable characters STILL doesn't have Batman, Superman or even Wonder Woman popularity.
>>68242386
Yeah, but my point is that if known characters were the key to success then The Incredible Hulk should have been one of the biggest success for Marvel Studios, but it wasn't.
Why? Because critics and audiences know the character. They're attached to him thanks to the TV series that were great and very famous. They've their own opinion about how the character should be portrayed and how the stories should play out.
The same goes for Spider-Man now. People are extremely attached to the Sam Raimi's movies. Marvel Studios has now a big challenge on their hand.
People are extremely picky with reboots and new takes. That's my point.
>>68242481
Hulk 2003 wasn't a success either, anon. The characters being recognizable bring more problems than not. I'm not saying that you can't do a reboot well, but it is tricky. You're a better off with a tried formula with new characters than doing a new take on known characters.
>>68242592
You're right in the regard that familiarity is often a burden to these kinds of things. It's why Blade ended up so good. Blade from the movie is way way different from how he had been portrayed in the comics but few people on Earth had that point of reference. It allowed a certain freedom. With characters like Superman, you can't deviate too much from the core traits before it starts to mutate into something people won't respond well too in general (like exactly what Snyder did to Superman)
BUT when it comes to setting up a shared universe, that same ubiquitous familiarity allows a short cut. No need to dwell on origins and all that. One of the best things BvS did was the Wonder Woman introduction. We know who she is, no need to drag that shit out.
>>68242005
Holy shit do you people even read comics? The character has changed a lot since the 70s. RDJ Stark is closer to Ultimate Universe "I am not only a rich guy but a well known celebrity guy who doesn't give a fuck that I am Iron Man".
Even Sam Jackson Fury is based on his a Ultimate Universe counterpart.
It's because they don't get Superman.
Superman isn't about his powers. It's about his fucking identity. There are people faster than Superman. There are people stronger than Superman. There are guys with better laser vision and better freezing breath than Superman. Batman said it best, Superman's strongest ability is his ability to inspire.
There was a line in one of the Man of Steel trailers that sold me on the movie.
https://youtu.be/T6DJcgm3wNY
"Can't I just keep pretending I'm your son?"
"You are my son."
That's what people love about Superman. His humanity. He's an alien but he still feels the way we do. Instead they thought if they showed a bunch of DBZ battles in CG, it would be enough to please people.
I'd watch the shit out of the movie the trailers promised. But it wasn't what we got.
>>68243057
Not really, he's entirely based on the extremis story arc. That's 616, not ultimate.
>>68243057
>RDJ Stark is closer to Ultimate Universe "I am not only a rich guy but a well known celebrity guy who doesn't give a fuck that I am Iron Man".
So RDJ was based on What If type of comic and that's good okay because...?
You just proved my point that RDJ's Iron Man was nothing like the classical Iron Man and that audiences didn't cared because nobody knew about him and thus were more accepting.
>>68243116
Oh and you know what a human being would do? SAVE THEIR FUCKING FATHER IF THEY COULD. I mean holy shit, people talk about the neck snapping Zod, but what about letting an innocent die when he could have saved him? When the innocent was PA FUCKING KENT?
>>68243013
>BUT when it comes to setting up a shared universe, that same ubiquitous familiarity allows a short cut. No need to dwell on origins and all that. One of the best things BvS did was the Wonder Woman introduction. We know who she is, no need to drag that shit out.
Warner Brothers in general seem to be handling Wonder Woman smartly. Her movie is basically a copy of her old TV show minus the WW2 part.
>>68243216
Yeah, Snyderverse Kents are a shit. Should have just done the same things Smallville Kents did, they were GOAT parents
>>68243013
hot damn that's some good anatomy
>>68243181
not really a what if though. it's a full on alternate universe. a lot of the visual stuff from mcu is based off of ultimate marvel (bearded thor being the biggest one), since that was supposed to be more grounded to the current reality than 616 marvel, but the character inspirations and storylines are from the main comic universe.
>>68243216
>Oh and you know what a human being would do? SAVE THEIR FUCKING FATHER IF THEY COULD. I mean holy shit, people talk about the neck snapping Zod, but what about letting an innocent die when he could have saved him? When the innocent was PA FUCKING KENT?
BECAUSE HE WAS A SCARED KID.
You guys talk about wanting a human Superman but when he acts like a human you guys complain.
>>68243256
They're flawed humans, but you can't have that despite people asking for it.
>>68236403
Because Marvel has control of their movies and DC doesn't
>>68243278
>not really a what if though. it's a full on alternate universe. a lot of the visual stuff from mcu is based off of ultimate marvel (bearded thor being the biggest one), since that was supposed to be more grounded to the current reality than 616 marvel, but the character inspirations and storylines are from the main comic universe.
So what you're saying is that the Iron Man movie was nothing like the classic Iron Man. Thank you for helping me prove my point.
>>68243121
Nah, Extremis Stark wasn't as quippy with one liners as Ultimate Stark. Nor as much of a celeb. Movie Origin was definitely Extremis though.
>>68243181
It's not a what if? story it was a full alternate universe which was 1. Closer to our world compared to 616 and 2. Was selling really well around the time of Iron Man 1 which was a couple years before the Ultimatum event ruined it. Both of said reasons were reasons enough to have influence from it. Hell the Chitauri from Avengers 1 was an Ultimate a Universe thing, too until more recently where they were added to the main universe due to movie popularity.
>>68243328
Scared kid? Are you fucking kidding me? He was fully grown at that point. He could have fucking run Pa Kent in and out and all people would have seen was a blur. And it's not like he hated his father or anything.
>>68243328
I happen to agree with you.
the only reason superman v batman failed is because henry cavill is balding
>>68243276
Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez not only has an awesome name but is an absolute master draftsman who defined DC's art direction in the 80s
>>68243348
>DC doesn't
They do you dipshit. Warner owns DC
>>68243473
I think the argument is Marvel have their own studio which is overseen by their own people to produce their own movies. DC have the WB studio overseeing the DC productions
>>68243516
Yeah this is what I meant
>>68243516
they aren't even DC productions, they are WB productions of DC properties with the DC logo slapped on them. It's a very very different situation.
>>68243358
But...the Origin story in the movie was from Extremis (main universe storyline), the Iron Monger thing initially happened after the popular Demon In A Bottle IM story from the 70s (main universe.) The drunk Tony shit from Iron Man 2 WAS a different way of telling the Demon In A Bottle storyline. Iron Man 3 had its basis in Armor Wars which was first mainline universe. And most importantly: the themes of the Iron Man movies (is he just the armor? Or is he more than that?) comes from every single version of Iron Man to ever exist. Mainline, Ultimate, What ifs, etc.
>>68236682
It's not Henry's fault. He doesn't really have anything to work with. The script and direction basically forces him to play this mopey, perpetually unhappy Superman with zero charisma.
>>68241146
I watched a bunch of cartoons when I was a kid, doesn't mean jackshit. The Iron Man cartoon wasn't really popular, it ended up getting cancelled after about 15 episodes. No one gave a single fuck about IM til RDJ knocked it out of the park.
If you went back 10 years and told everyone that Iron Man would be the most popular superhero in the world within 10 years they'd fucking laugh at you.
>>68241888
that is the most nothing response possible. "Sense of threat"? The fuck does that even mean? It was a shitty boss fight because the movie didn't know what to do with itself after the origin story.
>>68243595
This is whats frustrating. Just put Henry in the suit with no director and you get a better Superman because Henry is naturally charismatic yet boring in a lovable way. We have the perfect Superman going to waste
>>68243604
Not to get in between you guys' argument, but Iron Man in the 90s had multiple seasons. It didn't last as long as Spidey, but it was on for a while.
>>68243402
>Scared kid? Are you fucking kidding me? He was fully grown at that point. He could have fucking run Pa Kent in and out and all people would have seen was a blur. And it's not like he hated his father or anything.
He was 17.
Here's what most people don't understand about the whole Kents ordeal:
Jonathan Kent wasn't a selfish bastard that wanted to drown kids like most shitposters like to think. He like any parent worried about his son safety, but he also worried about the impact Clark's nature as an alien would affect the world tremendously. He knew that he and Clark had an enormous responsibility thrust upon them and he wanted Clark to understand this. He also HAD FAITH THAT CLARK WOULD DO WELL.
But was Clark ready? No. Clark was immature. So that's why he died. Because he worried that if people found out Clark wouldn't have the emotional capacity to deal with the consequences and people's expectations and worries.
It was more about Clark not being ready for the world than the world not being ready for Clark.
Clark, though, took the wrong lesson from the whole thing and thanks to his own fears thought that the message his father gave him was that the world wasn't ready to accept him. Clark was twisting his fathers words.
Jonathan wasn't a bad man. Nor Clark is. They're both just flawed and let their fears get the better of them.
>>68243604
People will actually argue against this but its absolutely true. Marvel cartoons other than Spider-Man and X-Men were syndicated trash that no one watched and with toy lines that went directly to bargain bins.
Iron Man and pretty much any Avengers characters were non-entities.
>>68243704
why can't we just have a Superman movie where Pa Kent doesn't sacrifice himself for a dog
>>68243655
It was on for 26 episodes, two seasons and was critically panned and cancelled because of shit ratings. They revamped the whole show for season 2 to try save it as well because the first season was shit as well.
It was not a popular cartoon.
>>68243704
True kino
>>68243741
>You shouldn't put yourself in harms way to save lesser beings
I agree. Superman shouldn't bother with us at all.
>>68243655
It had two seasons in Marvel's little "Action Hour" or whatever, So did the Fantastic Four and Hulk but they were not poplar at all.
>>68243704
No fuck that. If you saw your father about to die and you had a chance to save him, you would try and save him. If you saw your father about to die and you knew you COULD save him because you have FUCKING SUPERPOWERS then you would go and FUCKING SAVE HIM. It's one of the biggest tropes of Superheros, they compromise, make deals with the devil, take risks, all to save the people they love.
>>68243749
Not even saying it was popular. It went on for longer than Silver Surfer I think.
>>68243786
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpBDqPYVuO4
I'd say pre-super hero movie boom the "tiers" were
>A
Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, Wolverine
>B
The Avengers, The F4, the rest of the main cast of X-Men, the rest of the Justice League
>C
stuff like Guardians of the Galaxy, Legion of Superheroes, Dr. Strange
>D
people you have never heard of, public domain superheroes or people they dig up to kill in order to show how strong a bad guy is in the comics
>>68243714
I remember the first picture of RDJ came out (pic related) as Iron Man and no one really cared apart from comic book people who were just like "Yeah, he looks the part".
Now you look at /tv/ and every fucking picture from shit like Dr Strange or Suicide Squad becomes a meme or is posted constantly. People on twitter lose their shit over Cumberbatch.
It's crazy to think about actually, IM was only 8 years ago and I went to see it, thought it was a neat entertaining movie and didn't really expect it to launch the current craze.
>>68243822
Silver Surfer was popular and was well received but it cost too much to make in the midst of Marvel's bankruptcy thing.
>>68243776
except Pa Kent could've just as easily saved the dog and himself if he left it to Superman
plus all the conflict in the last two movies would never have happened but for Superman existing anyway, so humanity is worse off with him around in the Snyderverse.
>>68243741
What's wrong with sacrificing yourself for a dog? That's like saying that Superman shouldn't sacrifice his life for a human. I mean, he's a super-powered alien from a evolved society. Aren't we then basically like dogs to kryptonians?
See where the movie was trying to get at? Jonathan knew that the dog was Clark's dog. The dog that would play with Clark and that Clark would save whenever he played make-believes as a hero. By showing, though his sacrifice, that even the life of a dog is important, he ensured that Clark would never side with Zod against the humans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpsxVDHRhek
>>68243805
>It's one of the biggest tropes of Superheros
I thought people wanted a human Superman and not a cliche of all-powerful superhero.
>>68243887
>I should let somebody else put himself in danger while I do nothing
/co/ has some shit morality
>>68243854
I still remember wondering how they were gonna do an Avengers movie after the post credits scene. Felt too big at the time. Fuck was I wrong
>>68243891
oh fuck that, humans aren't analogous to dogs because humans are intelligent creatures. There's a reason it's unethical to eat dolphins and shit. Superman isn't supposed to think of himself as a higher being to the rest of humanity, he should consider himself essentially a human with powers.
>>68243891
He didn't even "Sacrifice" himself for the dog. He had every intention of helping the dog and getting the fuck out of there. he got trapped. If he sacrificed himself for anybody it was for Clark
>>68243946
Since when could you put invincible people in danger
>>68243822
I thought Silver Surfer was a spin-off from the Fantastic Four show. How many shows were on back then, cause I remember Spider-Man, Iron Man, X-Men, Fantastic Four, Silver Surfer, and the Hulk one. And there was also a She-Hulk one, or was that just a season of the Hulk one?
>>68243971
>The alien god who is better than me in every possible way isn't my superior!
You're the dog
>>68243946
There were people that wanted Superman to blind and tore Zod's arms and legs instead of him killing Zod, just so Superman can keep his code. Imagine that.
>>68244027
that's what I want out of my superman movie, superman to be construed as an alien god. Fucking Snyder is such a hack
>>68244015
No father would rather risk the life of his son, because he's younger and stronger, than his own.
>>68244015
How did he know Clark was invincible. Did he take out back behind the barn and just wail on him to see what he could take? He probably knew Clark could take a lot more because he would have avoided all the normal children injuries but that's a big leap to "My son can survive a tornado"
>>68243854
Incredible Hulk was Marvel's first movie as a film studio, and I remember going to see it (being heavily biased toward the Ang Lee one) and thinking it was more "Hulk-ish" because of the constant action. It felt *good*, but like it didn't realize its full potential...like we needed to dig just a tad bit more to find the diamond buried under the coal.
Then Iron Man came out and it felt like Marvel got it right, were in complete control, and had a blueprint for the rest of their future.
I was born in May of 1990 so I was a Spider-Man, Batman, and X-Men kid. My dad liked the Lou Ferrigno Hulk show because he was a bodybuilder and looked up to Ferrigno, but I never cared for him until the Ang Lee movie. I sure as hell didn't care about Iron Man and knew nothing about him (though I did think he looked cool, mostly in MvC2).
The Iron Man movie made me love the character. If a movie is THAT good that it does that, I can see people put their trust in Marvel and say "hey, it's Marvel, you know it'll be good" the same way people used to put their complete faith in Nintendo, or Squaresoft.
And as much as /tv/ likes to meme about the MCU, truthfully, they haven't released a *bad* movie yet, so there's no reason to have faith in them shaken just yet. 20 years ago I never, ever would have thought I'd go see Ant-Man in theaters, or Guardians of the Galaxy, but I did because "it's Marvel" and they've earned my trust.
>>68244123
Iron Man came out first though. IM was early May, Hulk was late May/early June
>>68244123
>they haven't released a *bad* movie yet
thor 2
iron man 2
>>68236403
Do people not like him as superman? I thought he did a fine job.
In the case of Marvel, I think Downey is probably Marvel's best selling point (maybe beaten by Captain America). Only problem is every Marvel hero has become similar to Downey with witty banter and one liners.
>>68241838
I'd argue that 300 was successful because it was so shallow that even Snyder couldn't fuck it up. The cast and the simplicity of it carried it.
Really think about it, what happened? A bunch of buff dudes in loin clothes and bronze helmets slow-motion-epic-cinematic-fight-scene'd through the Persian army. A few deaths here and there, so they had to have a whole two emotions to show, anger and sadness, the stuff that's easy to fake.
I'm not saying Snyder is solely to blame, but he is the head of the snake choking DC out.
>>68237415
Description:
Rotten Critics BvS
>>68237401
>Feige's email to Sony when he tries to explain them why ASM2 is shit and how to fix it(they obviously didn't listen)
I know I'm way late but link?
>>68244081
I hate this argument. He knew he was invincible. He knew he was super strong, could hear whispers a hundred miles away and all that. He just didn't want Clark to reveal his powers to the public. That's all it boiled down to. He wanted Clark to reveal it when he was ready, not to have his hand forced.
That's a great story beat. Snyder just botched it. Pa Kent's death has always been about teaching Clark a lesson. The heart attack version of Pa's death shows Clark that no matter how strong he is, he can't save everybody.
In MoS, Pa's death was about Clark finding his own way. The comic fan in me is revolted by the MoS version but it makes sense in the movie's logic. It's just stupid when our knowledge of Superman's skills and attitudes is applied.
Which is weird that BvS depends so much on the general public's inherent knowledge of these characters as a crutch, yet Snyder does everything he can to show shit that goes against it....
>>68239032
Well yes. It's an incredibly uncomfortable and draining process. It's so tedious the fact that it arouses him speaks volumes about his character. I'm surprised he didn't get slapped with a sexual harassment case, considering that level of lack of restrain I wouldn't call it unjustified.
>>68244168
Both are "meh" and harmless but not *bad*. The internet likes to make something the WORST EVAR or GOAT but, no.
>>68239509
>But there's no real enemy right now. People live confy lives with stupid standards that make them feel bad because they don't have the latest smartphone. Everything is dull and materialistic, there's no inner struggle, no essence, no soul. That's why I say this is the age of cynism.
>A dude being all positive and friendly sounds stupid.
BECAUSE AS WE ALL KNOW EVERYONE HATES THIS MAN.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2E1mLUrBdY
I'm not clicking all the posts to say that the Papa Kent death was fucking stupid.
If they actually wanted to do something interesting with his death and make it a meaningful moment in the development of Clark, they would have had him die of something that he could not save him from. Like a heart attack or a brain aneurysm. Something sudden. Something that not even Superman can see coming.
That would have taught him that, no matter what, even the best of all the humans on this earth, Papa Kent, die. He can't save everyone. That alone is reason enough to "save" and protect people from ridiculous other unnecessary evil. Evil and threats they don't deserve because some of them really are trying to just be good people and live good lives and pass that on. Like his real parents did on Krypton.
A good writer could have done this. I honestly don't know what the fuck they were thinking with Papa Kent's death. There are more than a few things I would change about what they did with MoS but that was a scene that particularly jolted people in their seats in the theater and made them say, "wait, what the fuck?" Once that happens, you're in trouble. I don't know how that was written so poorly, missed all the way through the production, and passed the final editing process. Horrible. Just horrible.
DC, call me if you want me to fix your movies.
>>68244267
https://wikileaks.org/sony/emails/emailid/88763
https://wikileaks.org/sony/emails/emailid/123476
idk. i think they're about the same. low quality entertainment, equivalent to the action flicks of the 80s. turn your brain off, and watch people shoot laser beams from their arms, or eyes. really, the only hero film that isn't held down by its comic book status is the dark knight franchise - even Rise isn't quite so cartoonish
>>68236403
Maybe it's because Marvel understands that capeshit are COMIC books and understand people want fun.
Quips are fun. RDJ is fun, he rides the Funvee. It's bright and colorful and things go boom.
DC doesn't do that. Nolan's Batman films were good because Batman is a dark character and a lot of his stories lean towards graphic novel structure. Superman, Wonder Woman, etc are supposed to be colorful and flashy too. I know DC comics are tonally different from Marvel's but they try too hard to make it more than what it really is.
>>68244376
BUT THE MOVIE POINT ISN'T THAT SUPERMAN CAN'T SAVE EVERYBODY, YOU STUPID FUCK!
AND THE ONLY REASON YOU'RE SAYING THAT IS BECAUSE THIS SHIT HAPPENED IN THE RICHARD DONNER'S MOVIES! YOU'RE JUST GRASPING AT NOSTALGIA!
The point of Jonathan's sacrifice was that Clark wasn't ready to shoulder the responsibility of being the world's savior.
>>68244517
COMIC books aren't fun. Not in comparison to the movies anyway
![glenford[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/a0bm1ZH.jpg "glenford[1].jpg")
>>68244376
>If they actually wanted to do something interesting with his death and make it a meaningful moment in the development of Clark, they would have had him die of something that he could not save him from. Like a heart attack or a brain aneurysm. Something sudden. Something that not even Superman can see coming.
That's been his death in a majority of representations.
>>68244475
Thanks.
>>68244517
> I know DC comics are tonally different from Marvel's but they try too hard to make it more than what it really is.
This isn't going to be some false opinion about how DC has edgier comics than Marvel is it? When you see Red Skull eat professor X's brain or Peter cry like a bitch when Doc Ock steals his body leaving Peter to die you know Marvel has plenty of edgy shit
>>68243216
Why DOES everyone talk about the Zod neck snap? What's the big deal there?
>>68236403
superman is the most boring a-list superhero
>>68244544
>The point of Jonathan's sacrifice was that Clark wasn't ready to shoulder the responsibility of being the world's savior.
No it wasn't. There was no point in his death other than to have a giant spectacle and to waste the CGI budget.
>>68244487
To steal a line from >>68244376
>[Pa Kent's death] was a scene that particularly jolted people in their seats in the theater and made them say, "wait, what the fuck?"
It's one thing to be a dumb popcorn movie, but it's another to be so dumb that you're immediately taken out of the film and you can't laze back into the spectacle simply due to how shitty you realize everything is.
>>68244619
>When you see Red Skull eat professor X's brain or Peter cry like a bitch when Doc Ock steals his body leaving Peter to die you know Marvel has plenty of edgy shit
Yeah there are stuff like that in Marvel too (i.e. Punisher), but I figure DC has more edgy villains in general.
>>68244080
you mean his INVINCIBLE SON?
>>68244588
I think the Kents died of old age in the golden and silver age. Heart attack was Donner, Smallville and Post-Crisis
>>68243278
>it's a full on alternate universe
Except it isn't. Thor isn't a hippie, Captain America isn't an asshole, Hank Pym isn't a compulsive wife beater. Hawkeye isn't Bullseye.
>>68244376
>Papa Kent death
>2016still believing he isn't the red tornado and summoned the tornado to test Clark and then ride it up onto a mountain
>>68244475
>https://wikileaks.org/sony/emails/emailid/88763
Good lord, this is funny.
>>68244544
God damn, dude. I'm sorry, you're just fucking dumb. You don't know what you're talking about. There's a reason, like this anon >>68244588 said, and the reason it was the thing in the Richard Donner movies...because the way MoS did it was so batshit fucking stupid that we're still fucking arguing how fucking dumb it was years...literally, fucking years later.
It was fucking dumb and you're fucking dumb if you honest to God thought that was "good" in that universe.
There was zero...literally zero...reason for Papa Kent to sacrifice himself to teach Clark that he wasn't ready to shoulder the responsibility of being the world's savior.
Stop. Just stop. Take a break. You're fucking wrong.
>>68236403
Marvel is its own studio, so more hands on and they want their movies to be good. DC has warner bros backing which prob doesnt even care about the movies, who knows.
>>68244654
Nah they don't. They're both as bad as each other. Marvel has gone lighter lately but not in a fun MCU way. In a "Unsolicited opinions on Israel" kind of way.
>>68244713
Unless this is true >>68244681
>>68244621
Because the execution and set up was stupid as shit.
You have the two practically destroying all of Metropolis just a few minutes ago, killing countless of lives with Superman doing literally nothing to stop it (and at one point, even just stand still and observe the destruction).
And now we're suppose to believe that Clark suddenly cares about 3 strangers who could easily just duck under Zod's lasers or jump over the stair railing. Not to mention the millions of other ways Superman could have handled the situation, like covering his damn eyes, flying away or suplexing him.
There was no real stake and no real danger.
I would totally be fine if Superman killed Zod because he didn't have a choice. But he clearly had a fucking choice.
>>68244475
>Andrew’s performance is all over the place…a lot of crying and then a lot of mania. Hard to track him emotionally sometimes. It undermines his reaction to Gwen’s death b/c he gets upset and emotional a lot.
Fucking this. He was a terrible Peter Parker but I could never place my finger on why.
>>68244676
I also forgot to mention, Post-Flashpoint/New 52 was a car crash that kills both of them. So it's generally always been shit Clark couldn't prevent
>>68239830
>defending ironmanlet
Pic related from a CoD trailer.
>>68244758
>He was a terrible Peter Parker but I could never place my finger on why.
Because the script was shit and the director was awful.
Garfield could have nailed it well just like Cavil could, but there's only so much you can do when the material given to you is straight up horse shit produced by the suits.
>>68244588
And that's why IRON MAN was more successful than MAN OF STEEL. People can't accept new takes on known and popular characters. If you do something new and different most people will find it odd and complain.
Imagine if in the 80's there had been a Iron Man movie starring Paul Newman as Tony Stark, but instead of Tony having a shrapnel in his heart and being a wise-craking smart-ass he was a serious and conflicted hero dying from cancer and bent on destroying the communists before succumbing to the disease.
If that had and been a success people would have hated the new IRON MAN starring RDJ.
It wouldn't matter if Iron Man in the comics had a shrapnel in his heart. People would have wanted the cancer story because that's what they knew about the character.
It wouldn't matter if RDJ is charming and funny, people would ask why Tony is treating everything like a joke and being funny.
It wouldn't even matter what story is being told. People would still have wanted to see Tony fighting Russians despite Cold War being over, just because that's what happened in the previous movie. So where are the Russians?
That's the problem when you try to work with well-known characters. Or you do a retelling or you're fucked.
>>68244808
>>68244758
Didn't he also piss off Sony's japanese businessmen
>>68244654
No. When comic characters have been around for 50+ years and are in frequent use, you're gonna get some edgy shit here and there if only for shock value and variety.
>>68244842
I never heard about this. What happened?
>it's way past the peak of its theatrical run
>won't break a billion dollars
>it may not even break 800 million
This truly is dawn of JUST.
I hope Affleck's solo Batman film breaks 1B so Snyder offs himself.
>>68244475
Wow. At least there ARE people involved in the machine that understand, even if they aren't heeded
>>68244679
A lot = all? Wtf are you retarded?
>>68244755
You forgot to mention how it's never established that Superman doesn't like killing, so him loudly yelling after killing Zod doesn't make sense narratively either.
>>68244860
https://wikileaks.org/sony/emails/emailid/44819
>>68244713
Yes, there was.
Clark was immature. People in Smallville already treated Clark for being either "special" or weird. We live in the age of cellphones.
The tornado set up and the CGI was bad, but intention and point was not. Jonathan stopped Clark from saving him because he knew that if people found out Clark would not have the capacity at that age to deal with the consequences. He wanted to give Clark a chance to mature and then make the choice.
You don't like it because it is different.
>>68244621
It's not the fact that he did it. Superman would totally kill Zod if he had to. But the way the movie plays out, Superman didn't earn it and his big NOOOOO made no sense because, really, the fuck does he care? We never see him giving a shit about all the people he killed in the battle. He fucking stood there and watched his own father die. Why's he suddenly so torn about killing this monster?
>>68244835
>And that's why IRON MAN was more successful than MAN OF STEEL. People can't accept new takes on known and popular characters. If you do something new and different most people will find it odd and complain.
Pa's death and the reason behind it is simple and easy to understand. It doesn't need a new take. It doesn't need to be reimagined. It's pretty fucking clear and will fit well in just about any time period. No need to modernize it with a tornado.
Superman can accomplish a lot of things, but he can't save everyone no matter how hard he tries or how powerful he becomes. He will eventually fail due to no fault of his own.
Pa Kent dying in MoS was a choice made by Pa and Clark. It was a dumb choice. It taught Clark nothing but to keep being afraid and doubt himself.
>>68244922
Nobody likes fucking killing, your sociopath.
>>68244873
I hope Suicide Squad does that. It would be funnier. Even if all the jokes were in both trailers we saw that's already far more humor than BvS had.
The lego Batman movie will make more money for WB than BvS and that is hilarious
>>68244169
They don't
>>68244758
He didn't feel like Peter to me because he never felt like a loser. Even before he got his powers he was some charming hipster skateboarding tech-genius, not just some geek.
>>68244924
>not showing up
>cancelling last minute
That's a big no-no in Japanese business or any business, and unless Andrew sincerely apologized like a madman afterwards I could see why things went south for TASM series.
>>68244835
>60s camp Batman
>Burton Batman
>Nolan Batman
All three are very different interpretations of Batman yet all loved within their varying contexts
>>68245014
Read some early Spider-Man comics. Peter is a shut in nerd by choice
>>68244987
Snyder was clearly fine with it for forcing Clark to kill a character who's already famous for being locked away
>>68245014
Peter being an absolute nerd loser is an invention of the Raimi movies. Garfield's take on Peter was fine.
>>68244755
>You have the two practically destroying all of Metropolis just a few minutes ago, killing countless of lives with Superman doing literally nothing to stop it (and at one point, even just stand still and observe the destruction).
False.
>And now we're suppose to believe that Clark suddenly cares about 3 strangers who could easily just duck under Zod's lasers or jump over the stair railing.
Clark cared about people. He's saving people throughout the movie even when he doesn't have to or shouldn't. Those people were also scared and couldn't move.
>Not to mention the millions of other ways Superman could have handled the situation, like covering his damn eyes, flying away or suplexing him.
He tried to block a heat-vision earlier in the movie and it hurt him, flying him away would result in more fighting and destruction, Clark didn't seemed to know suplex. But most importantly Zod wouldn't stop hurting people. He said so. So why continue with the fight? Zod wouldn't change his mind.
>>68245048
Superman killed Zod in the theatrical release of Superman II.
Superman is just passé, that's all.
Who wants to watch a movie about an invincible guy who has a fortress of ice? Maybe it would have been a hit in Ancient Greece or Cold War USA, but not 2016.
>>68244924
Based Andrew
>>68245026
>unless Andrew sincerely apologized like a madman afterwards I could see why things went south for TASM series.
What the fuck are you talking about? Those e-mails were way after TASM2, not 1, 2 was completed.
>>68245029
Burtons Batman was camp as fuck mate. Not 60's camp but look at this shit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB-fSOds9AU
>>68245073
Don't bother anon
When it comes to Man of Steel, you can't reason with autists with tunnel vision
>>68245014
The skateboarding was a little over the top, but Peter was always charming. He scored Betty Brant within the first 5 issues of Amazing Spider-Man.
The kid had a hell of a temper too. Piss him off and he'd blow up.
The Raimi movies made him into a 100% geek, which Peter never was. He was smart, but he wasn't completely socially awkward. He only acted awkward so that no one would suspect them of being the same person.
>>68244547
Not every comic book in the world is Maus.
>>68245081
Maybe they may have tried with TASM 3 or continued with Garfield even after MCU stepped in.
>DC in flames
>>68244966
>Yes, there was.
No, there wasn't.
>Clark was immature. People in Smallville already treated Clark for being either "special" or weird. We live in the age of cellphones.
>The tornado set up and the CGI was bad, but intention and point was not. Jonathan stopped Clark from saving him because he knew that if people found out Clark would not have the capacity at that age to deal with the consequences. He wanted to give Clark a chance to mature and then make the choice.
That has nothing to do with the tornado. Ignore the fucking tornado. You're missing the point that there never should have been a tornado. He didn't have to give Clark a chance to mature by fucking dying for zero reason whatsoever. God damn, you're missing the point of the entire argument.
>You don't like it because it is different.
No. You're just trying too God damn hard to like it. It's okay, man. Let go. I grew up on Superman. I'm a Superman fan. You're trying to defend the indefensible. All of MoS was not shit. There was some decent scenes and decent ideas. ALL of the ideas were not good. The Papa Kent death was fucking retarded. Fucking retarded. Indefensible. Shit writing. Shit. Shit. Shit writing.
Marvel has done the same. Decent stuff and bad stuff. Fucking retarded shit, too.
The only reason you can't see this is you've blinded yourself into defending the indefensible. You gotta take the blinders off, man.
>>68245146
Marvel comics take themselves more seriously than the movies. Or did before the SJW took hold
>>68244621
To expand on what this anon said: >>68244755
Obviously, not killing people is a huge part of Supes' character. He's the big blue boyscout, he can't just go around smashing badguys into fine red mist.
However, the DCCU is going for a grittier tone, and reimagining characters (even Superman) in subsequent retellings is a core part of comics at this point. Having Superman kill Zod is not an irreconcilable sin, it's the way it was handled that makes it terrible.
If you take Clark's initial reluctance to kill Zod as hesitance born of innocence and uncertainty (ie I know killing him is the best option, I just can't bring myself to do it) then logically the fact that he DID kill Zod after all would have a huge impact on his character. He might be less reluctant to hold back in the future because he knows that allowing villains to live can harm innocent people. He would consider his inability to kill Zod right away a failure, a weakness which allowed countless people to die.
But none of this happens. What should be a character defining moment for DCCU Superman is glossed over and ignored right away, and never brought up again.
A similar problem is seen with Supes in BvS. We're supposed to extrapolate Clark's motivations from the actions an emotionless, aloof god. Unlike in comics, we don't have handy internal monologue boxes to let us get inside the character's head so we know what they're thinking and feeling and as a result the character falls flat or comes off as actively dickish.
>>68244974
>Superman can accomplish a lot of things, but he can't save everyone no matter how hard he tries or how powerful he becomes. He will eventually fail due to no fault of his own.
Several /co/ and /tv/ posters disagree with you and complain that Superman should be able to save everybody because he's an idealization. Superman always finds a way and all that horseshit.
>>68245152
>Maybe they may have tried with TASM 3 or continued with Garfield even after MCU stepped in.
I seriously doubt Andrew skipping dinner was entirely responsible for TASM series being fucking cancelled.
>>68243626
That there's a sense of buildup and climax at the end of the movie (i.e. the movie doesn't blow its load 2/3rds of the way in like a lot of Marvel movies do).
>>68245200
Those people are retards anon. Superman hasn't been able to save everybody since the Silver age
>>68244835
There's a limit. Superman smiles, helps people and has a strong moral center. That Superman. You change that and you've got a different character.
It's like making a Batman movie, only Batman doesn't have a cape, isn't rich and only operates during the day. Why even call it Batman at that point?
Snyder gives us a mopey, confused, sad sack "Superman" who saves that girl from the fire, and makes a face like he immediately regrets flying all the way over there to do it. He says "I don't care" when Lois tells him people think he's scary. He is ominous as fuck even when he's rescuing people. He acts like Superman for two seconds when asking Batman for help (even though he shouldn't have needed it) but quickly decides to just blow shit up some more.
The whole endeavor is a mess.
>>68245155
kek
>>68245202
I never said it was entirely responsible, probably the cherry on top though with the flops.
>>68245230
No there isn't. Iron Man 1 has the worst 3rd Act of all the MCU.
>>68245125
>>68245029
To be frank:
60s Batman worked for tis time because comcis were still fun-ish. It was the Modern Age yet.
Burton's Batman works because it was when Batman started to get a lot more serious in the 80s.
Schumacher Batman did not work in B&R because too campy
Nolan Batman worked because of said dark Batman.
Hell, even Snyder Batman in BvS was lauded because he was fittingly dark.
>>68245047
>>68245054
>>68245142
You guys think that it matters if in the comic he was a shut-in by choice who treats Flash like shit or if he fucked pretty much all the girls he knew?
Lots of people complained about Andrews being too cool in the movie and doing skate because Tugboat Maguire wasn't like that.
>>68245200
>Several /co/ and /tv/ posters disagree with you and complain that Superman should be able to save everybody because he's an idealization
/co/ doesn't fucking even read comics. They barely have actual Superman threads.
/tv/ still believes Raimi's Peter Parker is an accurate presentation of the character.
Are you seriously using them as some sort of authority?
>>68245155
>DC thought they ever had a chance
>>68245261
Worse than IM3, Thor 2 and AOU? Come on.
>>68245169
There was nothing wrong with Jonathan Kent's sacrifice. You don't like it because it was different.
Just admit it, dude.
>>68245261
At least they didn't chicken out with villain like they did with Mandarin.
>>68245315
Worse than IM3 and AoU for sure, Thor 2 is pretty damn bad and it's hard to separate that the rest of that movie is pretty bad.
>>68245266
>Lots of people complained about Andrews being too cool in the movie and doing skate because Tugboat Maguire wasn't like that.
I'm well aware of that and I hate those movies for making the mass public believe that Peter is a fucking cry baby whimp. Pete was a cool guy and relatable to the everyman. He had issues and he didn't always solve them with a smile. He'd get angry a lot when shit wasn't going his way, but he always ended up pulling through in the end.
Now he's just known for being 100% geek.
>>68245335
Sorry, man. There was everything wrong with it. At this point, I have to assume you're memeing so I'm just gonna go. You won the argument. I'm not gonna do this all night.
>>68245281
Yes, because my point is that people perspectives and expectations when it comes to known characters make them hard to please.
>>68245346
Thor 2 had a great premise with the Dark Elves storyline. It's just a shame they pissed away all the potential it had as the movie went on.
>>68245234
>Snyder gives us a mopey, confused, sad sack "Superman" who saves that girl from the fire, and makes a face like he immediately regrets flying all the way over there to do it. He says "I don't care" when Lois tells him people think he's scary. He is ominous as fuck even when he's rescuing people. He acts like Superman for two seconds when asking Batman for help (even though he shouldn't have needed it) but quickly decides to just blow shit up some more.
Why do you ignore the context of the movie and scenes?
>>68245261
The fight where he had to go against the final boss without his armor working? I think it makes perfect sense when thinking of Iron Man thematically though. Regardless of which Iron Man is being talked about, the theme of the character has always been that he's more than just his armor, and in the final part of the movie and even in some comics this is portrayed by how he figures out a different solution despite his armor not working at full capacity.
>>68245414
Can you say what's wrong with it without mentioning Richard Donner's take or the point that Superman can't save everybody?
>>68236403
I personally blame Zack Snyder for this.
Besides live action movies DC usually is superior to Marvel.
DC's animated TV shows and Movies are usually much better than the Marvel. I don't watch any of the live action TV.
DC also has better videogames.
I feel like Zack Snyder is out of touch with what audiences want and is holding the DC properties back. Furthermore I predict that Suicide Squad will be DC's first cinematic universe success.
>>68241146
To me, he was. I was born in 1998 and until the other day I thought him and Iron Giant were the same people.
>>68245541
The set up was flawed. It should have been executed better so that Pa Kent NEEDED to sacrifice himself in a meaningful way.
Him dying because he was stubborn over a dog was not the way the scene should have been handled.
>>68245677
See? That i can agree with. The tornado overpass was flawed specially because that said tornado would have killed everyone there.
>>68243933
A human would save their parents if they could.
>>68245719
I'm not the guy you were arguing with
MoS and BvS had a lot of good ideas, but a majority of them were very poorly executed. It seemed like a lot of these scenes were rewritten so that they could get the specific shot, set piece or setting Zack wanted instead of just going with what would have worked best for the story.
>>68245757
No, they wouldn't. Not a scared 17 year old that was always told never to pick any fights or act out in anyway.
>>68239509
>But there's no real enemy right now
The snackbar is still open.
Iron Man was never d-list.
At his least popular, he's high b-list. You know, he became director of SHIELD before the first Iron Man movie even came out.
>>68245609
I thought the "tone" of BvS was fine. I blame the writing.
>>68239363
>have you ever watched a marvel film twice?
Winter Soldier
Ant-Man
Ironman 1
>>68245757
But, he's an Ayy Lmao bro. So it makes sense now. Clark could never save Pa, because he's an alien to this world and to his father.
Don't you understand kino?
Superman's character is like the beloved father figure of the DC Universe. He's there to protect everyone. Stand up for the weak.. and when he isn't strong enough, shit gets terrifying. But that's just my point of view- Superman can really be whatever the writer/artist/director wants him to be. I can't understand people blaming the characters for the movies being bad. Its never that, its just that Zack Snyder was put in the drivers seat. Guy's movies have great cinematography and he has some good ideas, but man the story was just poorly written. Put him in charge of visual FX or something.
>>68245839
Stop, my Adopted Annihilator.
>>68237016
This is completely normal, i remember listening to a Stern/Samuel L Jackson interview and Samuel said just before a sex scene he usually says "sorry if i do, and sorry if i don't"
I have a feeling Man of Steel would've made 100m more if it had Superman's name in the title. I had no clue what it was even about, for years.
>>68245770
I think WB are too far along Justice League to fire Zack Snyder but they should at least consider bringing in new writers/editors. Even a clusterfuck can be made into something great with a good editor (See: the original Star Wars).
>>68245964
That's just you being a fucking dumb ass
>>68245835
Ant-Man and Ironman 1.
Basically the same movie different quips.
>>68246007
>same movie
Is it because they both have a protagonist fight an antagonist?
>>68244371
The first Cap movie is a better Superman movie than Man of Steel.
>>68246063
But it doesn't have that shot of Superman at the church or floating down from Zod's ship with his arms spread out like he was crucified! How can it be a good Superman movie without Jesus?
>>68246094
Superman in the real world would be treated as God.
>>68242240
Superman isn't about human limitations, he's about human capabilities.
One of the few things MoS did right was rip off Jor-El's speech when Supes is dying in All Star Superman, probably the only moment in a comic book which gives me chills just from remembering it, it's inspirational as fuck and portrays perfectly what supes is about (see also his speech on Jonathan's death). Honestly, just go and read anything Morrison has written with or about Superman, he might have his faults, but if there's one thing he's good at is understanding why such a "unrelatable" character has continuously and intermitently kept his place in pop culture's consciousness.
Anyone can be a resented fuck like Batman, but everyone should try to be life-affirming, accepting fate and doing their best with it, like Supes.
>>68242592
How young do you even have to be to think people only got attached to Spidey's after the Raimi movies, he's the only Marvel character who comes even close to the levels of familiarity of the Trinity
>>68246036
Some guy invents a cool suit, his partner wants to make some dough off it, dude learns to be good and beats the bad guys skull in. Crack some jokes eat some popcorn. Give us something new.
>>68246168
Normies are extremely attached to Sam Raimi's movies.
>>68246125
No he wouldn't, he's a fucking alien and everyone who is not a third-worlder would understand the difference.
>>68246187
>Some guy invents a cool suit
But Tony Stark built it in a cave out of scrap, while Hank Pym built the Antman suit decades before the movie and gives it to someone else.
>Give us something new
Like shrinking? Oh wait, no. That's literally the same movie as Honey I Shrunk the Kids.
>>68246196
They're also extremely attached to the 90s cartoon and the PSX game
