The term Sith was never used in the original trilogy.
What does this tells us of the prequel trilogy and The Force Awakens and the creation of both?Don't bring the Expanded Universe into this if you can help it.
>>68224346
hi
it tells us that lucas hadn't come up with the word "sith" yet at that point
kind regards
i've got a novelization of ep 4 from the late 70's published before the film was ever released allegedly penned by Lucas himself
one of Vader's titles in the book was Dark Lord of the Sith
you can find early merchandise that refers to it as well, i'm sure
>>68224400
But the term Sith was created for the Novelization of the first movie, see>>68224450. It just wasn't used in the film.
>>68224346
It means that someone thought it would make sense for there to be a group of evil space wizards to oppose the good space wizards. While Vader and Sidious were never directly referred to as Sith, Vader did refer to Sidious as "Master" in the same way that Yoda is referred to as "Master". They both use the force, and they are both masters, therefor it makes sense that they are both members of long standing orders who follow different codes of morality and behavior.
>>68224450
I read somewhere that this book mentions Earth. Is it true?
So technically Earth was meant to be in star wars (to me all humans in star wars are from Earth but Star Wars takes place millions of years in future).
>inb4 a long time ago in a galaxy far far away
>>68224618
>(to me all humans in star wars are from Earth but Star Wars takes place millions of years in future).
>>inb4 a long time ago in a galaxy far far away
>>68224346
no David Prowse build = Darth Cosplay
>>68224618
i don't remember any mention of Earth, but Obi-Wan mentions the phrase "like water off of a duck's back." To which, Luke replies "What's a duck?"
it has the whole drama with the early appearance of Biggs and his death. there's the scene where Jabba and his goons confront Solo at the spaceport. neither of those things made it into the original.
it has some early tidbits like a mention of the Journal of the Whills - i've always wondered what Lucas had in mind there
>>68224346
1977 trading card.
>>68225158
Not within the films themselves, I mean.
>>68225158
i remember there a movie poster in 1977 mention word "sith" too.
>>68225158
Oh shit BTFO
>>68225158
DELETE THIS
>>68224346
Lightsabers were also never implied to be anything but a Jedi weapon. Vader had one because he was an ex-jedi.
Then the prequels and EU came and turned everything into Sith vs Jedi shit.
>lol they are like jedi but they are suppper bad and all have red lightsabers so u know they are evil and all the stuff from the old movies was also about this and the emperor was one called Darth Sheev Sidious
t.George Lucas
Literally the worst scene unironically is when Sheev gets his lightsaber and does his faggy twist. Takes his character from being the puppet master to being some old fag waving a glowstick around.
>>68224346
>The term Sith was never used in the original trilogy.
>>68224346
Why did they let Hayden wear the suit? He looks weird as fuck.
>>68225315
>>68225335
>>68225420
Nice memes, /tg/, but I was referring to the movies. Not products based around them.
The word already existed, but it wasn't used for some reason.
>>68225337
No, the worst scene is the Yoda vs Dooku duel in AotC.
>>68224346
Is this what a Sith wedding looks like?
>>68224346
>The term Sith was never used in the original trilogy.
>>68225547
It may be the term was coined after primary shooting was finished.
>>68225688
Are you implying it was?
>>68225337
yeah, I fucking hate this shit
now everybody on the dark side has a fucking red lightsaber
BRAVO
>>68225158
old man here - true Sith isn't mentioned in the films; but like the trading card it was mentioned in almost every brief biography on Vader, back in the 70s and 80s. Naturally kids wondered what they were. At one time I thought it implied a place or a group of warriors. As I got older I figured "Darth" was just a play on "Dark Sith." But right - Lucas didn't give it meaning until the prequels.
>>68225763
STOP
>>68225870
Instead of backing up your shitty implications, you resort to memery.
ONE OF US
>>68225711
It's in the script for ANH.
>The awesome, seven-foot-tall Dark Lord of the Sith makes his way
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-A-New-Hope.html
Okay, so
Early drafts of Star Wars mentioned the "Jedi Monks" being wiped out by their arch-enemies "The Knights of the Sith". As the pre-production evolved, the role of the Sith became relegated to one of Vaders titles, mentioned in novels and promotional materials, but never expanded upon.
When Zahn was writing the Thrawn trilogy, he created a race that served as the bodyguards of Vader called 'Sith', because the term had never been expanded upon. Lucas told him he couldn't use that term, and Zahn changed the race to Nog'hri instead.
Other Expanded Universe stuff came out, and the Sith became, as Lucas originally envisioned, the arch-enemies of the Jedi, a Dark Side cult that broke off from the Jedi.
Although some parts, such as the 'Darth' title being a Sith tradition, wouldn't exist until the prequels.
>>68225894
ahh k.
>>68225835
>As I got older I figured "Darth" was just a play on "Dark Sith."
i bet thats how lucas came up with the word "darth"
>>68225337
Darth Vader was not a Jedi when he was Darth Vader, so many can come to believe that the red saber was unique or of an evil order.
>>68224346
Because Darth wasn't a title back then, just Vader's first name, and The Emperor was just a crazy old wizard, not part of an "opposite of jedi" order.
It's why he comments that Lukes FEEBLE JEDI SKILLS are no match for the power of the dark side. But now, given the context of the awful pt, that line makes no sense since he also has jedi skills (flipping and using lightsabers).
He also explicitly states that lightsabers are a JEDIS weapon. Not something he would use, yet here comes the pt fucking that up too. The only reason vader had one is because it was explicitly stated he was an ex-jedi, so it made sense he'd have one. But now all sith have red sabers. Fuck the pt and george lucas.
>>68226873
Lol nice headcanon
>>68227454
lol watch the OT again, faggot
>>68224618
You know, for the longest time I thought a long time ago in a galaxy far far away literally meant in the past and in a distant galaxy but now I see thatyou're a fucking retard
>>68226873
Sheev didn't need to use a lightsaber to kill those jedi but it sure was fun for him to do so.
>>68226873
I always assumed that the emperor was some sort of a jedi or that they at least had similar powers it is just that by tapping into the dark side you could gain others that Jedi could use. Similar to a mage pulling from an arcane source and a warlock pulling from a demonic source in fantasy.
>eliminating the EU
It's all about forcing SJW propaganda now.
As Kasdan said in an interview, he and JJ asked themselves what it would be like if the Nazis had gone to Argentina and regrouped after WWII.
From birth, Jews are raised with this idea that homogeneous white societies will inevitably result in goose-stepping, ethnic cleansing, and warmongering. And I could understand that outlook if history had begun in 1930. But the truth is, whites are the most egalitarian and least barbaric group in human history.
That's what frustrates many of us when jewish SJW Hollywood sensibilities become accepted norms. They're slanted, prejudiced and their bias goes unchallenged by everyone.
The First Order was a Jewish take on ultimate evil. And because modern Jews are obsessed with The Shoah and WWII everything magically relates to MUH SIX MILLION.
It has gotten boring. It's stale. I wish we could get a more nuanced view of evil, but that won't happen because show-biz Jews always find a way of politicizing everything.
Like, recently I saw a movie set in 1920s London. There were several shots of a black man and a white woman walking as a couple in the street. It was there to sell us something. It was out of place and revisionist. It's tacky and it's condescending.
The objective is to shape public opinion with the assumption that everyone needs "educating" and are too dumb to pick up on the flagrant advertising of their agenda. In this case, it was a short throwaway scene and it still took me out of the movie. The message is basically, "You're too dumb to find the right opinions by yourself, so we're going to give you direction by placing propaganda in the media you consume."
SJW placement just seems dishonest and manipulative. Flagrant product placement annoys me whether it's a product I like or not. It takes me out of the ride that it should be, pauses everything to remind me what I'm supposed to think, and then expects me to jump back in with full enthusiasm.
>>68227780
"I'm having so much fun"
-Sheev Palpatine
>>68227936
>UNLIMITED FUNZIES
>>68226873
I love how he says
>Take your "jedi-weapon"!
in this mocking tone
clearly someone who doesnt take lightsabers serious
>>68225076
>Luke replies "What's a duck?"
Yeah no shit, you think there are any ducks on Tatooine, the desert planet?
>>68227931
not this shit again
either congratulations on making me reply to bait or consider that you are the real SJW with your paranoid bullshit
>>68225076
it was clearly a barely disguised "What the Fuck!?", my friend
>>68228152
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Duck
>>68224400
yes he did and you're an idiot
>>68228380
Ducks were a species of non-sentient birds that evolved on Naboo, a planet in the Mid Rim. They had broad and elongated bodies, with a relatively long neck and a broad bill. They also had two legs set far back on the body and a pair of short, pointed wings. At least one race of ducks had brown-speckled plumage. They could be seen swimming on the Solleu River, a river that ran through Theed, the capital city of Naboo. Their planet was also home to other waterfowl species, the quadducks and the pelikki.
>somebody wrote this
>inb4 wookipedia grass articles
>>68226873
you are assuming too much all he says is take your jedi weapon. It might be inferred from that statement that he wouldnt use one.
Your other arguement is stupid because vader calls the emperor "master" He would only do that if they were both part of an order of something everyone else calls him the emperor or if vader is speaking to subordinates hes the emperor but when its force business its always master..
You are grasping at straws and trying to define movies based on your own views which is fine but you dont need to be vocal and bitch about it or criticize the pt.
Also your arguement about jedi skills makes no sense because he would be insulting his own apprentice from your point of view. His statement is about his view the dark side of the force is superior and hes kinda right. Luke had to tap into the dark side to beat vader and then the emp was shitting on luke because he was all lightning hands surprise
>>68227634
>Because Darth wasn't a title back then, just Vader's first name, and The Emperor was just a crazy old wizard, not part of an "opposite of jedi" order.
They are implied to be part of a religious order as said by Motti in ANH. Vader refers to him as Master throughout ESB and ROTJ, similar to how the Jedi Knights called their masters, Master.
>It's why he comments that Lukes FEEBLE JEDI SKILLS are no match for the power of the dark side. But now, given the context of the awful pt, that line makes no sense since he also has jedi skills (flipping and using lightsabers).
Again in ANH. The lightsaber training scene where Ben Kenobi teaches Luke how to use the force as seen in this scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X69NCLxwLEY
>Ben: Remember, a jedi can feel the force flowing THROUGH him
>Luke: You mean it controls your actions?
>Ben: Partially. But it also obeys your commands.
The Force can do anything the mind of a Jedi/force-sensitive can think of. As it is an energy force that flows through all living things, and needs proper training. The only reason Luke got his saber was by thinking of getting it, and so it reached out to him. It's not that hard to think that a Jedi will want to accelerate his own body as an advanced technique, as the force is all around him.
>He also explicitly states that lightsabers are a JEDIS weapon. Not something he would use, yet here comes the pt fucking that up too. The only reason vader had one is because it was explicitly stated he was an ex-jedi, so it made sense he'd have one. But now all sith have red sabers. Fuck the pt and george lucas.
I don't think I can refute this without going into the prequels or into my own headcanon, so you got me there.
As for the unrefuted Darth Vader name, there's no real evidence or facts that point to it being a title or a name. It can go both ways, as my friends and I always discussed it as being a higher rank in the Empire before the PT came out. cont
>>68228540
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Grass
Are Wookiepedia editors autists?
>>68224346
>The term Sith was never used in the original trilogy.
I remember once in That 70's Show, one of the characters had a Darth Vader action figure and referred to him as a Sith. It kinda bugged me for this reason.
>>68225835
>As I got older I figured "Darth" was just a play on "Dark Sith
Oh shit. It makes sense.
>>68228589
>>68227634
>>68226873
The Darth name can be pretty open ended. I think it's a speculative theory that had no confirmation or extended information in the rest of the movies in the Classic Trilogy(OT). It's a theory that's been thrown by a lot of anons around here, and I can come to the conclusion that it was a popular fan theory that got treated like fact since there was nothing to refute or deny it in the rest of the movies. So I can only dismiss it as speculation.
If you want to get into headcanon/speculation territory, and dont treat the PT as canon, but the ST as canon, you can look at the way the First Order commanders all talk to each other. They all refer to each other by their honorifics/ranks, such as Snoke calling Hux(I don't think they even said his name) as General, and Kylo/Hux referring to Snoke as "Supreme Leader" which can lead some to believe that is the way the imperials talk to each other in their military branch. Then we can apply this to the OT and say that the imperials only released info about darth vader's name.
So basically, I can see your frusturation, and some of it are nitpicks and speculation that I used to believe in myself. I'm not saying that I liked the way the PT portrayed things, some things looked stupid, but it's not unbelievable or contradictory to the OT universe as much as people think. Except for the Sith Lightsaber theory. That's probably one of the only things that George contradicted.
Star Wars is a constantly changing universe that changed with each movie. I don't think it should have limits as it is a host to a variety of genre's imo desu.
>>68228718
POETRY
O
E
T
R
Y
>>68224346
it's because there was no one around that could tell the audience about the sith
>yoda was too busy spouting philosophical lines and making sure luke would be trained in the force
>obi-won was killed by vader
>>68228718
>dark sith
but that implies that there's a light sith, isn't dark sith superfluous?
>>68229463
There are Light Sith.
I know; it sounds ridiculous, but it's an actual thing in the Star Wars Universe.
>>68229524
>light sith
>only mentioned in old republic and darth plagueis
both of which are non-canon, old republic more so than the novell
>>68228570
Wrong. He also says, ah, a lightsaber, much like your fathers.
Also like this anon pointed out >>68228030 he sounds like he's mocking lightsabers, which goes hand in hand with "feeble JEDI skills". He has complete contempt for jedi and their skills. There is NOTHING to indicate he would be a flipping, saber weilding dark jedi type.
As fas as Vader calling him master, that's just because we're told by obiwan that vader was seduced by the darkside and helped the emperor hunt down and kill jedi. We can INFER that palpatine tought him some dark side stuff, but again, there is NOTHING indicating that palpatine is part of an order.
>>68227454
>citing the OT
>head cannon
Pt fags everyone.
>>68230134
Look at this>>68228589
>>68230134
Vader literally was acknowledged as part of being a religious order by his superiors. Why can't we assume that Sheev was part of this religious order devoted to the force as well?
And if the Jedi Knights were always warriors who fought in the clone wars. Since you can't accept that there would possibly be a separate church/cult of the force that was against the dark side, then we have to believe that the Jedi Knights, bar the masters, we're basically a Jedi army/police force of the Galaxy. Their cult heads taught them about the mystic side of the force so they could help in the Clone Wars.
>>68229524
>Light Sith
As in a character on the lightside that also happens to be a Sith (the race) or what?
>>68231837
No, a sith that's leaning to the light side but still follows the Sith teachings. That's what happens when writers ran out of ideas.
>>68231837
No, as in religious-cult-formed-around-The-Force Sith just like there are Dark Jedi in the original films and the Expanded Universe.
There Sith have their own organization just like there was the Jedi Council in the prequels. These two follow certain codes of conduct and beliefs that define them as members of each organization, but the sides of the Force (Dark and Light) are entirely separate from these.
>>68232460
>>68231837
Oh, and there are also Grey Sith and Grey Jedi, just to make things even more convoluted.
>>68230666
>>68228589
I'm willing to concede that Palps was part of an order, but not some corny shit like "jedi, but in black!" as presented in the pt.
Also, whole thing you pointed aboit Lukes force training has zip to do with what I mentioned in regards to palpatine mentioning feeble >jedi< skills. His contemptuous attitude towards lightsabers and jedi skills STRONGLY imply that his teachings are nothing like Jedi, and he backs this up by shooting fucking lightning out of nowhere.
The pt however, undermines his dialogue in the OT by having him flip around and swing sabers LIKE A JEDI. These are the exact feeble skills he was berating Luke for having.
>>68232565
but the memes.
But, seriously I agree on your points about it looking pretty stupid. And Jedi weapons. shit like that. good discussion.
>>68233005
I agree with you too bro, and I love pt memes, they're a big part of this board so In a way I'm kinda glad the pt is the way it is lol.
