So did Luke use the Force to blow up the Death Star akin to Ren at the begining of TFA?
Wouldn't luke have to be a very powerful Jedi to use the force is such a strong manor?
>>68137547
No. The torpedos blew up the deathstar. He only aimed using the force.
>>68137547
No. Ren wasn't powerful, but he did some cool shit.
Obi Wan helped him use the force to relax and take the shot as he would naturally. There is no force telekinesis at work here.
>>68137547
He gets a free pass because he has a penis.
Rey's a Mary Sue, cause Space Magic making her good at shit is dumb.
Extend for 300 threads.
>>68137581
>He only aimed using the force.
>Maybe we can use the force on the computers
>THATS NOT HOW THE FORCE WORKS
Maybe Han is retarded?
>>68137652
hello tumblr
I understand what OP is getting at, and I kind of agree that Rey's force powers weren't all that unbelievable.
I think if Vader had tried to extract information from Luke's mind in ANH the same way Kylo Ren did to Rey in TFA, then Luke probably would have instinctively used the "jedi mind trick" too.
It was just an instinctive response to someone digging into Rey's mind with the force.
>>68137694
>>68137652
Fuck this was not what I was intending, but halfway through making the thread I knew all the female posters would take it that way.
>>68137547
Every time people say "Rey is a Mary Sue" I bring up this and get no good responses.
>>68137641
>The torpedos take a 90Degree turn
>It was just good aim
>Not USING THE FORCE
The Dumb Awakens
Luke is great pilot who can shoot small targets at high speeds.
Biggs literally tells the rebels this and gets him the gig.
At the mission briefing he is still BTFO by other pilots who essentially call him a dick.
>>68137694
Vader straight up drugged leia to find out the Rebel base was on Yavin 4
Why didn't Kylo just fucking Drug rey?
>>68137737
you're a fucking retard and repeating the same old shitty memes
>>68137730
Luke wen't through the heroes journey and had training, Rey can speak like every language in the galaxy, fly the millennium falcon, and use force powers with no training
Vader only seconds from shooting down Luke.
Only saved by Han at the last second.
>>68137795
...and everyone she meets loves her, even Chewie who fucking hates everyone, and she gets the keys to the Falcon for virtually no reason.
>>68137547
He used the force to aim. That is like his beginner training while blindfolded. Lifting a X-wing with force is advanced force usage.
Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if at that critical moment Luke temporarily surpassed Kylo Ren. It is established that
1) good guy can surpass Kylo at critical moment
2) even after beating Kylo the good guy still needs further training.
>>68137893
>...and everyone she meets loves her
does she give anyone reason to dislike her?
>>68137909
fuck off you fucking infantile cunt
>>68137909
what a stupid fucking response
you are the type of utter moron that TFA was made for
>>68137730
There's been several in this thread alone you memeing retard
>>68137663
Luke turned off his targeting computer
>>68137547The DeathStar = Inseminating the MoonChild. It is an Egg, Luke inseminated it.
2Deep4U
>>68137547
>Wouldn't luke have to be a very powerful Jedi to use the force is such a strong manor?
Using the force to time a shot isn't that amazing of a feat. It's not like he's pushing in vaders shit using only the force.
>>68137581
How did he make them change thier direction 90º though if it wasnt through the force?
>>68137795
>heroes journey
Which Rey also undergoes.
>had training
Ten seconds with a ball.
>Rey can speak like every language in the galaxy
She understood droidspeak (so did Luke) and Wookietalk.
>fly the millennium falcon
Luke flies an X-Wing with a flimsy excuse that he used to fly something like it for fun.
>use force powers with no training
Oh but if she'd played with a ball for ten seconds, everything would be alright?
>>68138248
Not that guy. Don't see any, just a bit of anger.
>>68138435Anakin was conceived by someone manipulated the MidiSperms
See 2Deep4U >>68138377
>>68138486
>Which Rey also undergoes.
literally no you complete retard.
Also, they were on the millennium falcon for weeks i nANH
>>68138479
They're guided. Plus the exhaust port was on the ground
>>68137786
So, how am I wrong...?
>>68137795
Yep. It's all about forcing SJW propaganda now.
Kasdan said in an interview that he and JJ asked themselves what it would be like if the Nazis had gone to Argentina and regrouped after WWII.
From birth, Jews are raised with this idea that homogeneous white societies will inevitably result in goose-stepping, ethnic cleansing, and warmongering. And I could understand that outlook if history had begun in 1930. But the truth is, whites are the most egalitarian and least barbaric group in human history.
That's what frustrates many of us when jewish SJW Hollywood sensibilities become accepted norms. They're slanted, prejudiced and their bias goes unchallenged by everyone.
The First Order was a Jewish take on ultimate evil. And because modern Jews are obsessed with The Shoah and WWII everything magically relates to MUH SIX MILLION.
It has gotten boring. It's stale. I wish we could get a more nuanced view of evil, but that won't happen because show-biz Jews always find a way of politicizing everything.
Like, recently I saw a movie set in 1920s London. There were several shots of a black man and a white woman walking as a couple in the street. It was there to sell us something. It was out of place and revisionist. It's tacky and it's condescending.
The objective is to shape public opinion with the assumption that everyone needs "educating" and are too dumb to pick up on the flagrant advertising of their agenda. In this case, it was a short throwaway scene and it still took me out of the movie. The message is basically, "You're too dumb to find the right opinions by yourself, so we're going to give you direction by placing propaganda in the media you consume."
SJW placement just seems dishonest and manipulative. Flagrant product placement annoys me whether it's a product I like or not. It takes me out of the ride that it should be, pauses everything to remind me what I'm supposed to think, and then expects me to jump back in with full enthusiasm.
>>68138498
There's 2 right at the beginning, question was already answered
>>68137581
>>68137641
>>68137641
>There is no force telekinesis at work here.
The targeting computer was switched off, so there would have been no post-launch instructions sent to the torpedo. It should have flown straight, but instead turned down into the vent.
Something pushed it down into there. It's in vacuum so it's not like there's a rush of air pulling it in. It's a cooling vent anyway, so any movement of gas would be in the other direction.
It was the Force, brah.
>>68138479
It's called guidance systems you fucking retard. They were programmed to do that
>how do you know that?
Because the plan wasn't for luke or anybody else to use the force when shooting them. Other pilots also attempted it but mistimed it so they failed.
>>68138377
>moonchild
>moon
Fucking idiot, they specifically say that it's no moon.
>>68138556
If they're guided, why aim, why have targeting computers, why use the force?
THE CLONES ARE SEMEN
>>68137785
the answer to this question is the same answer to most questions people ask about Kylo: because he's too big of a pussy
>>68138521
The movie is almost entirely her undergoing the hero's journey.
>>68138557
an extra chromosome, I suspect
>>68138560
>It's tacky and it's condescending.
That's called 'Jewish'.
>>68138594
But lukes computer was off.
>>68138651
usually that involves some sort of actual struggle
TFA is a theme park adventure that a boring little girl went on
>>68138651
oh fuck it's YOU again.
The same fucking mongoloid who posts this hero's journey shit every single fucking time like it is some kind of irrefutable scientific theory rather than one writer's interpretation of stories.
>>68137652
Shut your fucking mouth up you cuck.
>>68138651
name one time where she actually faces trials
>>68137694
This is like saying by someone torturing me and extracting information from me that I'll automatically know how to use the exact same interrogation techniques on someone else mere seconds after having it done to me.
Rey apologists are the worst.
>>68138594
>guidance systems
Luke turned his off. Did you not watch the movie all the way through or something?
Luke destroys the Death Star when he uses the Force. It's not even subtle. Kenobi is even like "yes, you're doing it, you're using the Force to destroy this Death Star. Yes, I repeat, you're using the Force to destroy the Death Star, even though I only had time to train you for like a second."
>>68138827
You're not full of bacteria that talks to space magic to give you superhuman ability though...
Reminder Rogue One will retcon events so this new chick was responsible for the exhaust port.
>>68138486
>Rey undergoes the hero's journey
LOL fucking nope.
confirmed for retard
do not pass go, do not collect $200
cease and dessist.
How fucking retarded can you be?
Go back to Middle School writing class and brush up on your literary terms.
>>68138768
>I've never been to school in my life
Oh, it shows.
Remember that meme about Hollywood being evil and controlled by Satan?
Well it's true, I'm afraid.
>>68137909
Yes. She's pretty rude to both Finn and Han when they first meet.
>>68138849
>>68138688
That was the system for aiming and timing at the hole.
>use the force you fucking faggot
Jesus Christ Raimi was this really necessary?
>>68138932
If you can't prove yourself right because you're wrong, just call the other guy names.
Why do you fuckers forget about this scene? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X69NCLxwLEY
It literally tells you that you can control the force by telling it what to do. Especially since it's an energy field.
Luke is reminded to trust his instincts to tell him when to take the shot, like he did at home, rather than using the targeting system which had already been seen to fail.
>>68138965
A system for aiming, also known as a guidance system.
>>68137909
Yes,
She's a fucking retarded giddyup knowit all just like Luke and Anakin were in their respective movies.
Everyone reacted like they were retarded little shits with no experience and no idea how to deal with the situation.
In Rey's case she does the following things and is instantly praised for it.
>rips insanely specialized components out of the Falcon and is instnatly priased by Han solo
>TOUCHES chewie (which is a huge no no) and he loves her
>shows up at the New Republic Base and is instantly given a mission to go find their most sought after leader.
There are a shit ton of other examples too.,
>>68138937
What a stupid response. Not even close to the truth you asperger's fuckwit.
By the way, you also confirmed you ARE the exact same cunt, you fucking idiot.
>>68138768
I'm not the one who posted about the hero's journey first. That would be this anon >>68137795
Post your grievances to him.
>>68138965
So how the fuck did anyone miss if their missiles can self guide on hairpin turns? Why not program them better?
makes no sense, AI bombs aren't established, the force is. Luke was JUST TOLD to use it.
>>68138651
Finn has a better hero's journey.
>>68138998
>confirmed for being a writing class 'educated' pretentious cunt with a superiority complex
>>68138627
>You catch the pearl and ride the dragon's wings
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpEwKz6YCEs&nohtml5=False
Pearl = Egg = Death Star
Wings = LegsTFW YOU CLUELESS 15 YEAR OLDS WILL NEVER TRULY UNDERSTAND
>>68139156
Keep the empty insults coming.
>>68139125
nice try, cunt
>>68137795
Is Rey a droid?
>>68139142
>So how the fuck did anyone miss if their missiles can self guide on hairpin turns?
Bad writing.
And we don't actually know that force was literally just told to use it. We're talking about a magical space ghost speaking to a person. For all we know Obi-wans guidance goes beyond just telling luke to use the force.
>>68139152
I can agree with this. Still doesn't change that fact that Rey also undergoes the hero's journey as well.
>>68139142
I think you're right, there are no AI bombs. The computer system just tells you when you're lined up for the shot. The reason the bombs converge towards a center is probably because of the angle of the proton torpedoes.
As said by this anon>>68139000, Luke was taught that the force can obey any command so Luke just told it to go into the exhaust port.
>>68137547
Cause Ren had more midiclorihans
>>68139205
not empty in any way because you have not even attempted to deny any of them and that indicates that people have not only identified you as the same heros journey guy in every thread but that the 'writing class pretentious prick' stuff is exactly right. Right?
>>68139247
Yeah, that's agreeable.
>>68139215
I'd certainly screw the arse off her! #bazinga!
>mfw shitty female protagonist
I'd actually prefer the negro was the protagonist honestly..
>>68139247
except she doesn't because nothing she tries ever goes significantly wrong
>>68139266
>>68139234
So we basically agree that Luke used the Force to blow up DS1 directly?
And that DESPITE this, he's no Gary Stu.
Ok then.
>>68139405
no, WE don't. This is just you speaking to yourself and confirming your own crap.
>>68138965
Obviously we don't know the details of an imaginary space ship's weapon systems. But real world guided weapons use the ship's "targeting computer" to program the weapon. For instance setting what radar source or point of reflected laser light it should track, as well as things like at what altitude it should deploy a chute or whatever.
It you just turn that off and dumb-fire the weapon, it'll either drop under gravity or fire its engine and shoot off straight forward.
It's possible they made special modifications to their weapons for that mission. Maybe they strapped on a droid's AI system or something so it could see the vent and turn into it. But if it has such advanced on-board guidance, why did all the other shots miss? Merely aiming yourself toward a fixed point is far easier than performing the incredibly steep and well timed turn.
>>68139061
I swear to god some of you have legitimate brain damage.
The fucking missiles were programmed to go straight across the surface until they reached the hole. The targeting computer was just to aim them toward the hole
>>68139455
now THIS is actual autism
>>68139376
I actually liked Finn. The biggest problem with him from a writing perspective is that his origin story is a bit forced. Besides that he's a flawed character that has an arc and how he reacts to the world around him comes off as legitimate. It also helps that his jokes worked for me.
>>68139396
>nothing she tries ever goes significantly wrong
Doesn't she try to fight Kylo, gets captured and mind-raped?
>>68139396
THJ says you face challenges and overcome them, not that you instantly fail them until you grow a cock.
>>68137652
>Using the force to aim a rocket is the same thing as mindcontrolling soldiers and beating other, better trained jedis
Rey cucks never disappoint
>he thinks I'd watch a movie with a female protagonist
hahaha I'm a straight white male ain't got time for that kiddie shit
>>68139405
>luke was taught that you can command the force to do things
>later Luke does what he was taught
>this is comparable to rey beating a semi trained(by both fucking luke skywalker and snoke) Sith with absolutely no training or anything in force manipulation.
Ok.
>>68139607
Well, he did bleed out a lot of midichlorians, severely reducing his mp.
>>68139453
Wait, are you the guy inferring Ghost Obi telekinetically turned the missiles?
Isn't that a stretch?
Wouldn't the best Jedi just end the Dark Side as invulnerable ghosts...?
>>68139607
You got it.
The force is magic and gives those who wield it the power to advance the plot.
All you're quibbling about is scale.
>>68139532
>until you grow a cock
infantalised SJW 'adult' detected
>>68139294
Why would I bother denying your silly schoolyard taunts?
i had no idea there are people out there who thought that luke used the force to actually move the missiles
though saying that, since he didn't have the targeting system on how the FUCK do the missiles know to go down the exhaust port?
so maybe he did holy shit
>>68139527
Do you understand that every word in a properly thought out sentence is significant?
>>68139726
No, I am not that guy. You've got problems here. There is more than one person calling you a dick.
>>68139726
I think we're complaining about the idea of a character using magic without being taught about it. Especially considering we're talking about a universe where force users are supposed to start being trained as a child.
You do realize that Kylo Ren started his training when he was a child and he's like his late 20s in this movie and STILL hasn't finished his training right?
This is like somebody with absolutely no education performing open heart surgery.
>>68139405
The force (And Luke in general) played a very minor part in EP4
All the hard work is being done by Han who carry him and cover him and Obiwan who actually use the force
Even then, the computer work fine and the "force" is pretty much a gadget at this point
That's pretty much the difference between the typical initiation rite of a beginner and "BOYEGA, WHAT DOES THE SCOOTER SAY ABOUT HER POWER LEVEL?"
>>68139810
Not that anon but I agree with him: the fact that she got captured proves what you said wrong.
>>68139786
Everyone apparently thinks this now.
Even the Dorkly youtube channel made a thing about how the only reason that the torpedoes made it in was because of a "space wizard"
I always assumed since I was a kid that they had some sort of internal guidance that locks on to the biggest power source available within the area unless you designated a target before hand.
>>68139763
nice try but it's not working. These 'taunts' are evidently correct and you have nowhere to escape this conversation apart from stalling.
>>68139527
>Doesn't she try to fight Kylo, gets captured and mind-raped?
She's the one doing the mind-raping actually
>Luke uses the Force
>destroys a DEATH STAR
>"Yeah, that's reasonable"
>Rey uses the Force
>tricks an easily fooled guard
>"MARY SUE"
>>68139881
Apart from using the force to explode the death star part of the film
oh wait that's the entire narrative you daft nigger
>>68139890
no, your answer proves your a fucking idiot who didn't read the whole sentence properly
>>68139913
I honestly don't even remember your taunts and can't be bothered to scroll up. Can you repeat them for my benefit?
>>68139859
>trained as child
Luke, Anakin
>Badguy lost, WTF?!
You're kidding right?
>Magic doesn't work that way
It works any way the plot needs it to.
Always has.
>>68139938
That's cause Luke is a cute awesome boy and rey is an ugly annoying girl
>>68139940
>Apart from using the force to explode the death star part of the film
Oh yeah Luke totally overpowered the deathstar by sheer power of force-lighting, I forgot about that
There wasnt an entire plan designed about flying X-wing in a canyon and shooting in the exhaust port
I gotta give it to you guys, you really never give up
I know 80% of this thread is bait but I'm going to take it seriously anyway
The problem with Rey isn't that she's "unrealistic" or that the things she does are somehow unjustified; it's that she's boring. Her hypercompetence gives her limited room to grow and develop as a character, which gives the audience few reasons to invest themselves in her part of the conflict.
Contrast Luke. Luke was strong with the force and had a powerful destiny, but spends a large part of the movie being a naive farm boy. Obi-Wan has to bail him out of trouble from both the sand raiders and the cantina thugs; Han has to swat him away from fiddling with the controls of a ship he doesn't understand; his "plan" to rescue Leia ends at her cell, at which point she has to take charge. So, when he finally gets in a fighter and does what he's best at, the contrast feels more meaningful; the final shot, where he applies what he's learned on his journey, cements his deveopment from a clueless child into something greater.
Or, contrast Finn in the same movie. He's constantly terrified, constantly getting beat up, while lying to the other characters and generally blundering his way through the conflicts. His motives are understandable enough that he remains likable, and so when he finally decides to stop running and fight the bad guys, there's real catharsis.
Rey being a mechanical genius and expert fighter and quick-learning force user who everybody likes etc. robs her character of any room to grow, while cheapening the roles of the rest of the cast. Nobody sympathetic can dislike her; she can't meet any challenge she herself doesn't overcome by the end of the movie; she can't ever not do the bulk of the work to resolve a conflict. Any one of her accomplishments in the movie would be fine by itself, but as a whole, well, I think you get the point.
>>68140004
TFA had a shitty plot, we already knew this, Rey being a mary sue is only a symptom of that
>>68139944
>I'm not going to specify my point because it's too weak
Are you trying to say that it didn't go "significantly" wrong? She lost the fight and was captured. That's about as wrong as it can go short of dying.
That she eventually escaped doesn't redact the fact that her attempt to fight Kylo went very wrong.
And then later they fight again and it goes far better, which is pretty much textbook hero's journey stuff.
>>68139944
No, I went back and reread what both of you said. His reply works. In fact, it worked so well that you don't have any reply beyond trying to squabble about semantics (and rather poorly, I might add).
As a third party in this I'm only joining to tell you that you're being completely ineffective in convincing others, at least as far as I'm concerned.
>>68140022
Right before he explodes it you hear obi wan tell Luke to use the force
>>68139938
Luke had just been introduced to the Force within a period of what seems to be just hours (but would likely be less than a few days) and had no idea of the potential of the Force.
He was, though, used to flying and using computers and other targeting systems (there's no reference to him being such a good shot he didn't need targeting computers to bulls-eye womp-rats). So he went in to the battle flying as he always had, in the way he was comfortable: with all the tech turned on and paying attention to all of it.
It was only when Obi-Wan spoke to him that he started thinking about not using the targeting computer. While he seemed doubtful at first, he is hearing the voice of his dead mentor quite clearly, which would be enough proof there's power to the Force for him to make the leap of faith to trust Ben Kenobi and, by extension, trust himself as Kenobi obviously did.
The turn, or dive, as I like to think of it, for the torpedoes, could be due to a number of things. It's possible that he had some control over the torpedoes using flight controls in his X-Wing.
Another possibility is that the torpedoes are proton torpedoes and the port is ray-shielded, and the shielding could be negatively charged, which could change the course of the torpedoes without stopping them.
But, considering this was a planned attack, it's also very likely that the torpedoes were pre-programmed, so as long as they were launched within a certain distance of the port and pointed right at the port, that onboard programming would provide some control over the course of the torpedoes.
There are a number of technical issues that could easily influence the behavior of the proton torpedoes, and it's likely the Alliance would have taken that into account when preparing the weapons and fighters for the attack.
>>68140088
they aren't pre programmed it's a prediction program but luke turns it off because he is a jedi so he will hit it perfect without any programs because that's what jedi do.
they predict seconds into the future and act accordingly, that's why they can block blaster bolts
>>68140034
No mate, all SW has a shitty plot about protagonist space wizards doing magic to;
save the day, brood, go bad, leave the farm, find a dad, save the day and find some cunt.
I accept it's dumb space opera with magic, you suddenly don't because the protagonist space wizard has tits this time.
>>68140070
Yeah and like I said, that's the part where he get out of the cockpit and force-lighting the entire space station
Face it, despite being actually trained, unlike Rey, he doesnt use any actual power during EP4, he just feel the presence of obiwan and "trust his instinct" instead of the computer
>>68140194
if you put a male in Rey's position the character and story would still have been dogshit compared to ANH
>>68140088
>port is ray-shielded
Not according to the technical readout.
>>68140206
You are the most autistic poster I've ever seen, go buy some rope and hang yourself mate.
>>68140234
If Rey were male, none of you would be crying Mary Sue.
Be honest with yourself: if they changed nothing about the movie except for Rey's gender and Finn's race (and also the hints of romance between the two) you'd have loved it.
Your complaints have nothing to do with the movie and everything to do with your dumb politics.
>>68140325
no you fucking retard, the biggest complaints are not about the characters.
the movie was a stale copy of ANH that was clearly made in a boardroom to be as safe as possible.
The characters being shit is just a symptom of this.
>>68140280
It's called logic m8
Sorry it triggered you
>>68140206
>USE THE FORCE LUKE
>He didn't use force guise
>>68140234
Luke in general, is a dogshit protag who follows the Hero's Journey beat for beat. My nostalgia won't blind me to that. Also, this >>68140325
>>68140325
>Be honest with yourself: if they changed nothing about the movie except for Rey's gender and Finn's race (and also the hints of romance between the two) you'd have loved it.
No. Also it's not "your dumb politics" it's the politics the director decided to put into the movie you daft nigger. You might be able to ignore political messages, cause you have an IQ of around 80, but normal people see straight through it.
>>68140325
Be honest with yourselve, you're btfo beyond comprehension and just spouting "mysoginy" because you have no idea what to say
>>68140381
>Literally told to "use the force"
>but it's not actually the force it's just instict!! (you)
>hahaha my superior autistic logic wins the day
drink bleach after reading the OP you ignorant twat.
>>68138592
>there would have been no post-launch instructions
Citation needed. There obviously were, since the torpedoes went in. Obi-Wan wasn't telling him to use the force to pull anything, just to "Trust your feelings" and "let go".
>>68140369
>Stale copy
I bet the prequels just "mirror" amirite?
>>68140408
>my opinion of the film isn't affected by politics
>I'M REALLY ANGRY ABOUT THE POLITICS OF THE FILM
>nazicat.jpg
>>68140472
at least the prequels were memorable and added to the lore.
JJ's hack remake just renamed the factions, built a bigger Death Star and called it a day
>>68140004
You seem to think that anybody is going to imply that Anakin wasn't written absolutely terribly. I'll help you out and tell you that nobody thinks this; Or are you saying that when it comes to writing the prequels are the new standard that we should measure movies by? I mean do you understand what you're saying here?
>guise it's not as badly written as a prequels
At least you have that going for you.
Oh yeah I forgot to talk about luke. Yeah he's not fully trained. He gets a little bit of training and then guidance from space ghost to guide a missle. You do realize that it takes 3 movies that span over years of Luke honing his abilities before he's any good at using the force right Because that shit doesn't happen until return of the jedi.
He doesn't briefly talk about the force for a couple of minutes at a bar before beating the vader at force manipulation even though he has years of training. Now maybe Kylo Ren is actually not supposed to be any good when it comes to using the force (he's certainly not supposed to be as powerful as Vader). Maybe he's a bit retarded and if that's the case it certainly does help the case for why Rey was able to beat him twice in the first movie, but I don't think that you should make your primary antagonist of your movie be a drooling retard.
Really it's about this. >>68140026
Why do you faggots think that nobody complains about Finns character?
The best part of this conversation is if people just admitted that she's a Mary Sue that'd be the end of it for the most part. The movie is still probably the best Abrams movie and while having the primary character be a mary sue is pretty shitty it's not like it's the end of the world.
>>68140482
So your argument is my choice of reaction image?
nice one anon.
>>68140518
Just plagiarize the original film and add a diverse cast and lens flare, easiest movie of my life.
>>68140461
If they have torpedoes that can track their surroundings and turn sharply into a vent, then why did the others miss? A weapon that can turn so sharply and judge position so accurately would have no problem getting itself to the vent, no matter how inaccurate the pilot was.
Modern guided munitions have a turning circle many orders of magnitude greater than that shown by the torpedoes dropping into the vent. But they could easily hit a target that size. The idea that the torpedo is dumb up until that point and suddenly becomes an amazing homing weapon is nonsensical.
>>68140026
well said.
/thread
>>68140325
Now we finally get to the real reason you are arguing about Rey.
This is the first honest thing you've said.
It's not true though. A male called Ray living on a Tatooine like planet would have been ripped apart even more.
Trying to bring race into this at this stage is not a nice move. Nobody here was even talking about Finn and I think Finn was the only good new character in the film.
>>68137547
op is a faggot what else is new
>>68140567
You seem to have got me wrong friend, see >>68140392 and >>68140194
>>68140518
But Anon, the prequels weren't well recieved for breaking the mould, JJ took a back to basics approach that still highlighted how cyclical SW trilogies are. Was it well written? No, but then none of SW is.
>>68140239
>the port is ray-shielded, so you'll have to use Proton Torpedoes
>>68140445
>just spouting "mysoginy"
Never once said this, though.
I genuinely don't care what their races or genders are. I don't care about diversity one way or another. I care if the movie is good, and TFA is a good movie. The characters in it are really good. If your politics got in the way of you seeing that, I feel bad for you. I missed out on a good Star Wars film because you're too busy fighting Social Justice Wars.
>>68140047
she literally overcomes every problem almost instantaneously or laughably quickly.
Therefore these events could hardly be said to have gone significantly wrong for Rey as they cease to have significance in a ludicrously short period of time.
>>68140445
You literally said if Rey was male nobody would be complaining.
>>68140925
>If your politics got in the way of you seeing that
that IS you saying that TFA dislike is down to racism or misogyny without actually saying those words.
Do you think we are stupid?
>>68137547
Did you not watch the movie? The torpedoes function like bombs. They fire forward and then drop. They literally show all the pilots a video of it in the preflight briefing.
>>68137737
They were homing missiles locked onto the exhaust port. Most just crashed into the surface after turning.
yup
>>68140854
actual dialogue
>>68141004
we actually see the graphic of this beforehand
>>68140630
Honestly, they probably used repulsor technology. The missile had to travel 60km down the shaft, and while the port led directly to the reactor, it may not have been a straight line.
That'd explain why they had to skim along the trench first rather than simply approach the port from above - the missile had to remain within a few meters of the "ground" at all times so that it could travel down the shaft without hitting the wall at any point during its 60km journey.
The missile, therefore, wouldn't be "guided" so much as programmed to hug the ground. You'd have to get a direct hit on the port to get them to drop in. The targeting computer would assist in doing so, but Luke was encouraged to use the Force to trust his feelings and make the shot.
>>68140932
>they cease to have significance in a ludicrously short period of time.
Her being captured leads to Finn, Han and Chewie going to rescue her. Recall that Finn lied about knowing how to take down the shields so that he could go rescue her. Maybe Han and Chewie would have gone anyway to try to destroy the base, but they'd have had a different plan and wouldn't have brought Finn.
That group going and not knowing how to take down the shields leads to all the stuff that happens on Starkiller Base. Including the death of Han and the near-death of Finn.
I'm really not sure "ludicrously short period of time" can be used to describe literally the rest of the film.
>>68141120
BUT HE BLEW UP THE DEATH STAR USING THE FORCE.
HE'S A GARY STU
>>68141044
>we actually see the graphic of this beforehand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41PMJoeIDos
Shown at 1:17
>>68141178
OP comprehensively BTFO
>>68141120
>skim along the trench
Because it's easier? Sure there all kind of canon down there but I'm sure flying high is more risky. Plus it looks cool.
>>68140567
>Why do you faggots think that nobody complains about Finns character?
Boyega acted badly and all of his jokes fell flat--likely due to being made to force an accent--but I agree that his character at least had flaws.
>>68141148
No, no, nice try.
The slight problems Rey faces are forgotton almost immediately.
The plot may advance, such as it is, but you are almost confirming these 'problems' she has a quite literally Macguffins in that the specifics of the problems are totally insignificant beyond moving the plot along.
>>68141157
It was the expelliarmus of force techniques.
Meanwhile Rey was shooting patronuses for shits and giggles.
>>68138627
>ywn see an animated series drawn in the Roger Dean style with a soundtrack of 80s Prog Rock
I guess Avatar is as close as we will get
Don't pay attention to the paranoids, guys. Everything it fine.
>>68141330
BUT HE BLEW UP THE DEATH STAR
REY DOESN'T BLOW UP THE DEATH STAR
POE BLOWS UP AN EVEN BIGGER DEATH STAR AND NOBODY HAS A PROBLEM WITH THIS BECAUSE PENIS.
>>68141157
Everyone has always known he used the Force to make the shot. That's.. not a revelation. But he used it to allow him to trust his instincts and do something he was already good at - flying.
>>68141228
If they flew to the surface of the Death Star then orbited it until they got to the hole, sure, that'd more dangerous than flying low, but hypothetically you could keep your distance, get above the hole and dive straight at it. But evidently that wasn't plausible.
>>68141228
the Empire can't use really heavy weapons or missiles in the trench as it could seriously damage the station
>>68140998
>that IS you saying that TFA dislike is down to racism or misogyny without actually saying those words.
Only if your politics are those things. Are they? I don't really know and don't really care (not to be mean, I just don't care about politics, especially not in concerns to Star Wars).
>>68141391
he didn't blow up the death star, the missiles did that.
all he did was shoot them into the shaft using the force, which for a jedi is a pretty easy task
>>68141391
Literally proved that he did what a nonjedi could do just as well
>>68141391
>POE BLOWS UP AN EVEN BIGGER DEATH STAR AND NOBODY HAS A PROBLEM WITH THIS BECAUSE PENI
Even people who love this film say this part is fucking shit.
I've rarely seen the most rabid TFA defender defend this appalling part of the film.
>>68141419
OK, I can see you are acting like a little kid, now, and pretending you didn't mean to suggest...whatever.
Fuck off and try and fool other less intelligent people.
How much do Disney marketers get paid to post here?
"You may be the hottest bush pilot this side of Mos Eisley, Luke, but those little skyhoppers can be dangerous. They move awfully fast for tropospheric craft—faster than they need to. Keep playing engine jockey with one and someday, whammo! You're going to be nothing more than a dark spot on the damp side of a canyon wall."
―Biggs Darklighter to Luke Skywalker
"T-16s are a lot like the snubfighters we're using."
"I know, I looked one over. I'm sure I can handle it."
―Biggs Darklighter and Luke Skywalker, before the Battle of Yavin
>>68141843
"We can pay you 2000 now, plus 15 when we reach Alderaan."
>>68141597
I didn't suggest anything.
You're reading into what I said and trying to create arguments for me that aren't there so you can tear those ones down because you can't confront what I actually said. This is why you've yet to address what I really said, and continue to explore these "yeah but you implied' type arguments.
I've not tried to fool anyone here and have been absolutely straight-forward to you in the face of you trying to be dishonest to me. Now I'll drop all pretenses: you tried to change my words because you couldn't handle them. You tried to create a strawman argument for me and have failed thoroughly in doing so.
Again, I'm sorry you can't enjoy Star Wars 7 because of political reasons. That sucks for you because it's a good movie. It sucks that everything has to be a Social Justice War for you.
Fortunately, I'm free of your problems and can actually enjoy things in life without the baggage. Maybe some day you'll get on my level but probably not.
Have fun with those strawmen and politics of yours. I'm done with you. Take your last word knowing I won't even read it.
>>68141992
Why did Ben offer to pay him $15 when they got to Alderaan? That doesn't sound like much of a counter offer.
>>68141995
>just spouting "mysoginy"
>Never once said this, though.
Meanwhile at your post he was replying to
>If Rey were male, none of you would be crying Mary Sue.
Please explain to me what you're saying here if it's not directly implying that the critics of the movie are mysoginists
>>68141995
Fuck off you fucking moronic cunt.
And you must be a moron if you think anyone believes your continual lies about what you said.
>>68142046
no, it was 15 blowjobs
>>68141995
>Take your last word knowing I won't even read it.
Liar.
>>68138486
>Ten seconds with a ball.
They were flying through space a lot longer than that, might as well say that Yoda didn't even teach him for more than 2 hours with that kind of logic.
Besides, the point is that he had a Jedi there to train him and teach him the basics. He also only pushed two objects down into a hole and didn't defeat another force user in combat in the first movie.
>Luke flies an X-Wing with a flimsy excuse that he used to fly something like it for fun.
X-Wings aren't super special, they're pretty standard issue and somebody with some basic degree of piloting skills can probably figure it out without too much trouble or training. They are also smaller and easier to control and not super modded out like the Falcon is. Even if Rey was a professional pilot, the Falcon has so many custom modifications that it's nothing like other ships of its kind and it'd take at least a little bit to get the feel of it.
Also, Luke does have pre-established piloting skills. There are a number of references to him flying stuff back home and he wanted to join the Imperial Academy and become a professional pilot before the plot swallowed him up.
>>68138486
>She understood droidspeak (so did Luke)
No, he doesn't. The only time he understands R2 is when his X-Wing is translating for him.
>>68140026
as a follow-up:
A huge, huge part of the latter two OT movies was that being a Jedi is about more than swordfighting and telekinesis. Luke's entire arc in Empire revolves around him not understanding this, and thinking that cool ninja flips are all it takes to beat Vader. He of course fucks up royally, and in the end it's his friends who end up having to rescue him.
Sure, he's tossing mind tricks in the next movie, but that's because his real lesson comes at the end; he doesn't subdue Vader because he's the strongest and the bestest, but because he gave into his anger. The dark side's power to destroy is unmatched, but the light has the power to redeem, which is, in the end, how Luke saves the day -- writhing on the ground, helpless and in pain, pleading with his father to save him. It's a fantastic contrast to the typical story where the heroic lead wins by virtue of being able to hit harder than the bad guys.
Ironically, considering how self-consciously the writers were clearly trying to avoid the "stereotypical female character," Rey's big moment in the end of TFA ends up falling directly back into the stereotypical action-hero mold. TFA's force, as it turns out, is about swordfighting and telekineses. Even disregarding her other issues, having one of Rey's few pieces of character development be A. one of the most tired action cliches in existence B. which the OT the movie's drawing from pointedly tried to avoid, is even more dissatisfying and, again, boring.
Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if the next couple of movies explore this more closely (especially if they keep trying to follow OT's thematic template), but there's no point in either attacking or defending a character based on what they might be like in movies that don't yet exist.
>>68142476
>Also, Luke does have pre-established piloting skills. There are a number of references to him flying stuff back home and he wanted to join the Imperial Academy and become a professional pilot before the plot swallowed him up.
and Biggs obviously tells the rebels how good he is. That's virtually why Biggs is still in the movie, to backup Luke's claims
>>68142552
this is gettting really funny now
C3P0 translates R2 for most of the film
later we actually see the translation on a screen in the x-wing
do you think these people have seen the film at all?
If they come up with a good explanation for Rey in Ep. VIII could it retroactively make TFA better?
>>68142672
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYUqXBYA7uM
At 3:20 he literally says, "If you're saying coming here was a bad idea, I'm beginning to agree with you." R2 is like a dog. As Luke gets to know him more, he can intuitively understand certain things, but he doesn't literally speak droid.
I think you're right. Most of these TFA apologists are likely kids who've never even seen the original trilogy.
>>68142844
no, the script will still be awful.
If Rey trained in all the Jedi arts before she was abandoned as a tiny little kid on Jakkshit and then 'lost her memory' of it all, I suspect this wouldn't be met with anything other than derision from a good many people.
>>68142844
Not really. The real problem with a Mary Sue isn't that it's unrealistic (i mean it's a series about space magic). It's about what works well in story telling. Read this guys post >>68140026
The best thing they could do is try to play up the idea that she got lucky more than anything in the first movie. Then start creating flaws in her character that she'll have to overcome episode 8 and 9.
explain this starcucks
>>68143059
The primary defenses of the death star aren't focused on shits flying right next to their hull. Which is why the majority of the rebel ships get blown the fuck out before they even make it to the trench and once they get there the empire relies on tie fighters to deal with the rebel ships.
>>68143059
Missiles can turn you retard
>>68143059
Anyone approaching from that angle would be blown to shit by TIEs, missiles and turbolasers, obviously.
The point of going in close is that you cut down the number of people who can shoot at you.
They can't nuke you if you are 5m from the space station, right?
>>68142844
Why does Sheev look like the russian RENT guy from the Spider-man movies?
>>68143363
Lost interest in the subject, kid? Thought you'd just start shiposting, right?
>>68142961 part of my post got cut off somehow so I guess i'll just repost it here.
Imagine I was writing a story for a movie about a character on the run for a crime he didn't commit and in a chase scene he starts doing crazy parkour shit and it's briefly mentioned in the movie that he was actually a national parkour champion in some multi million dollar tournament when he was a kid. Later on he steals a small plane and you find out that in college he had taken an aviation course. He lands in Sweden and you find out he speaks perfect Swedish. He runs into a Muslim immigrant that he speaks Arabic to because in college he also took a few years of both Swedish and Arabic. Towards the end of the movie he has to fight a semi pro MMA fighter in hand to hand combat which he beats because at the start of the film he was talking to a co worker about how he's actually been training to go pro in MMA.
It ultimately doesn't matter if you have some reason for the character to be great at everything. In fact it's great to have a character to have something they are great at. The problem is when they are great at too many things it robs the character of potential growth.
>>68137547
He used the Force to time the shot.
>>68140451
You still got btfo
Luke doesnt use any actual power. No tie pilot mind control no missile force pull he just aim manually
So no power level bullshit. A writing from a more civilized time
>>68140997
I said no such thing
>>68145224
Then you're not the person he was responding to. Why would you respond to him and act as if you were? Get the fuck out of here.
>>68145224
Why don't you stop lying you lying cunt?
>>68140325
>>68145224
I can't believe this retard actually sneaked back to say that.
Liar.
>>68145281
Even the person in the original post said no such thing
He clearly stated the obvious. Aka male or female a shit writing is a shit writing
Sadly for obsessed ppl like you, any critic of any female char is sexism, so there is no saving you
>>68145851
I can believe you're still grapping at straws over this
Truly devoted to your waifu tbqh
>>68145976
You're genuinely retarded aren't you?
>>68145384
Good job linking a post proving im right
Efficient samefagging here
>>68146211
This is getting sad
I can see the desperation in your post. Just stop hurting yourself
>>68146211
yeah this person is either a shitposting time waster or genuinely a psychopath
>>68146081
This doesn't even make any sense. I am not the rey fan
>>68137547
The manor couldn't have been all that strong if two torpedoes could bring it down
/tv/ needs IDs
>>68146361
Well you obviously misread at some point, there is no other explanation
>>68146388
you;ve never seen this film, have you?
>>68140325
The entire conversation up to this point has been extremely entertaining, thanks lads. This is now a derailing b8 so I'll stop reading.
But how did this series of movies attract so much autism? How do you guys know so much about the universe from a few 2 hour movies? Guess it's been a while since I've seen them.
>>68146484
>How do you guys know so much about the universe from a few 2 hour movies?
We're not retarded and actually pay attention to the movies were watching instead of fiddling with out phones.
>>68146581
Joke's on you I didn't have a cellphone when I first saw the original trilogy so HAH!
>>68146484
Sorry mate but you were told to fuck off with your shit ages ago. You haven't won anything you're just a cunt.
The rest of us actually discussed things. You are so retarded that you wasted YOUR OWN LIFE talking about sonething you have no interest in.
Nice autism, you stupid cunt.
>>68138479
If the missiles couldn't change their direction the rebels would have considered the shot impossible and not even bother. Clearly the missiles are designed to do this.
>>68146704
Oh I guess I didn't word that post very well. I was just reading the conversation, I didn't partake in it. I never could figure out how the force worked so the debate how Luke used it on the torpedo's was interesting.
>>68140325
You are right. Jew Jar Abrams did the same thing with Kirk and no one made a stink about it then.
>>68149109
People complained about Kirks character. The thing is you didn't notice because there was a sea of bullshit that people were complaining about in that movie and it just got drowned out.
That's the thing here. TFA fags aren't even willing to admit that the movie does have 1 glaring flaw. If they just said "yeah rey is a mary sue and that sucks... I still like the movie though for these other reasons" Then this whole thing would have blown over by now.
>>68149381
Because it isn't a flaw.
She is stylistically designed that way.
Have you never seen hunger games and all these hunger games ripoffs
That is the kind of character women gravitate towards. They genuinely like mary sues.
>>68149448
That's some popcorn tier trashy logic. By the same argument transformers is great because any issues the movies have is overshadowed by the fact that some group of people enjoyed those shitty ideas. Robbing your primary protagonist of any room to grow in your series for a short term thrill fucks the series in the ass in the long term because there's no long term enjoyment to be drawn from the movies. Nobody is going to give a fuck about TFA 20 years down the line and that's shitty considering it's part of (one of) the most popular intellectual properties of the modern world.
>>68149716
You can't say objectively that a mary sue is a badly written character
Just like transformers it just isn't for you
In any way. It was not written with you in mind at all.
>>68149756
With that logic, everything in movies must be subjective then. But that isn't true. Even paintings and music have objectivity.
>>68149931
Not everything.
It is not even subjective at all actually
She is a well written mary sue
Whether you think that writing her as a mary sue is a good idea or not is your problem
Its like complaining about the genre or the setting.
>>68137730
>get no good responses
Yes you fucking do.
>>68149980
You can't objevtively say IF a character is a Mary Sue in the first place. All you can say is that you feel a certain character was to competent or whatever, and how it affects your overall impression of a movie.
You can't make up a word to mean "bad character", and then say you have an objective way of telling if a character is bad or not, because there is no way of objecively applying it in the first place.
>>68138479
He didn't.
Luke used the Force to turn the Death Star itself.
>>68138592
I hate you Rey supporters. LUKE USED THE FORCE TO AIM....DO YOU HEAR ME YOU PIECE OF SHIT, HE USED IT TO AIM, I HATE YOU ALL!
>>68141391
The targeting computer would have told him when to fire, BUT, THERE WERE TOO MANY FACTORS THAT GOT IN THE WAY, SPEED, DISTANCE, MOTION...the force told him when to fire because the force is also partially precognition. IT KNEW HOW TO TIME THE RIGHT EVENT FOR THE DESIRED OUTCOME.
anyone, and i mean, ANYONE OF YOU IDIOTS WHO SAYS LUKE USED THE FORCE AND SHOVED THE MISSILES INTO THE TUBE, I WILL FIND YOU, AND BEAT YOU, mercilessly!
>>68152391
>>68149980
REY IS A GLARING MARY SUE, THE MOST GLARING MARY SUE I HAVE EVER SEEN AND I'VE SEEN A FEW. Triple X Xander Cage is one but even he was more believable than Rey.
>>68138486
Luke is a kind, warmhearted kid who wants to see the galaxy, make friends, and always tries to do what's right. Even if he's kind of a dweeb teenager.
Rey is an antisocial loner and kind of an asshole at first. Apart from her being a hot chick, there weren't many times it seemed like she was much fun to be around for Finn; in fact, that's probably what Han liked most about her. Heck, if Finn hadn't been such a ridiculously swell guy, she just would've been left to explode with Space Laser Base. She might seem more competent and determined then Luke, but just like with Kylo Ren and Vader, she's kinda the same but opposite...i'ts almost like poetry, it rhymes.
That still makes the character a bit flat, underdeveloped, and overall a thankless part for Ridley, but calling her a Mary Sue is just another way of saying "I'm to dull to actually express an opinion on why I don't like this character"
>>68152858
The reason why people call her a mary sue is because she excels at everything she's shown to attempt beyond what you would expect and everybody instantly likes her.
There's literally nothing wrong with calling a character like that a mary sue unless you're some autistic cunt that doesn't understand the implications of why that's a bad thing to have in a story.
>>68152858The first film was about Han Solo
Rey = Han Solo + Luke + Leia
Poe = Luke + Paul Atreides
BB8 = R2D2
>>68152858
REY IS A GLARING, I SAY IT AGAIN, REY, IS, A, GLARING, MARY, SUE.
SO GLARING IN FACT, SHE'S A maRey Sue!
>>68137652
He is basically doing what he trained with Obi-Wan and that ball droid, letting the Force (or intuition) guide him rather than his senses.
Rey on the other hand didn't have a trainer in her whole life (or at least most part of her life if she ends up being an abandonded student) and she managed to do Force tricks like mind control and telekinesis without too much struggle.
Proton torpedoes can't melt Quadanium steel beams!
LUKE MISSED.
Toydarian's did battle of Yavin!
>>68137547
Can we stop pretending that Star Wars doesn't firmly adhere to comic book logic? The Force does and doesn't do whatever the script and writer requires. It goes no deeper than that.
>>68137547
He only used the force to reinforce his ability to shoot wamp rats.
>>68137547
He used his feelings.
Thats the first step to using the force.
Maybe thats why Rey was so good with the force.
Because she's a woman and they are all about feelings.
>>68137785
Because we are in the age of "thanks Obungo" no water boarding.
>>68154670
>Can we please stop pretending that Darth Vader's iconic suit wasn't given to him at the Emperor Palpatine Surgical Reconstruction Center?
>>68153107
No, I'm saying that using a meaningless term like Mary Sue in the first place means that you are in fact some "autistic cunt", as kids call it these days apparently. I'm not actually sure how that could've gone over your head in such a way...maybe just re-read the paragraphs you're having trouble with next time.
>>68138486
Luke at least had flying experience.
Rey has none in the movie, yet outflies experienced pilots.
In the novel there's a throwaway line where she says "oh yeah I salvaged some old computer simulators"
It's a weak explanation, but better than nothing.
The biggest problem with Rey is that J.J rushes shit through.
>>68155416
Mary sue isn't a meaningless term you cretin.
>>68153493
When faced with assholes talking ass, you bust them with this.
>>68154812
He used the force to time him pulling the trigger, you mong. He did not at any time pushed the missiles down the shoot!
>>68155416
Rey is such a maRey Sue, the only male equivalent would be a young man who at the age of 4, left a Shaolin temple and for the next 15 years was a junk collector having to fight off thieves on the daily who one day becomes, James Bond, Jason Bourne, Xander Cage, Neo, John Murdock and Jet Li's the One, all within 24 hours.
>entire second movie of the OT is about Luke failing at his training, refusing to listen to his instructors, and subsequently getting his ass handed to him by a stronger opponent
>any adversity Rey faces is solved within two minutes by her discovering that she not only has some ability she's never used before, but that it's also stronger than the abilities of somebody who's been doing it their entire life
They're totally the same, guys!
Also, Obi-Wan was the one who directed the missiles in.
There are a shitton of male Mary Sues in fiction, but Lukefu isn't one of them.
>>68153288
This picture and post is terribly inaccurate
>>68140026
>>68142596
saved. wont try to use as bait, but i like the explanation.
>>68141157
Fine. That's a Gary Stu moment. Which was kind of explained throughout the beginning of the film. Rey had more Mary Sue moments throughout the rest of the film that can be overwhelming.
