I'm a fucking pleb and don't know nothin' about cinematic composition or criticism. What do people mean when they say this movie has "bad editing"?
Anytime you actually started to gave a shit about a character or moment, it would jump cut to a completely different scene
>>68119249
There's literally nothing wrong with the editing, nor pacing of BvS.
Watch the plebs kick and scream as they try to explain what is wrong with it in vain.
>>68119462
Information overload
>>68119249
it just that the generic CGI doomsday monster came out of nowhere
>>68119398
Hm. I suppose I can see that. I really liked it though. Snyder's methods are different, but every scene was pretty relevant to its own plot thread, aside from the shoehorned JL shit.
>>68119462
A lot of shit in this is a stretch, but some of it is really clever. The difference between his two monuments at the beginning and the end of the movie is something I missed, but absolutely love. And it hits the nail on the head about his status as a Christ figure. It's not how Clark wants to be seen, but it's how he's seen nonetheless. Of course, how they handle his revival will really take some fancy footwork on their part, in order to make his death feel like it mattered.
>>68119547
He came from the ship, I think?
http://www.provideocoalition.com/art-cut-batman-v-superman-editor-david-brenner/
since everyone's been talking about the editing of this movie, there's a very lengthy and in depth interview with the actual editor of the movie
actually all of this site's editor interviews are extremely informative and worth a read
>>68119876
Lemme guess, he defends his work and the interviewer is about as hard hitting as a Nerf dart...?
>>68119462
Why were there no establishing shots? I'm assuming it was Snyder's idea but holy fuck it was jarring that every scene would just dive straight into closeups.
>>68119955
no the interviewer's an actual editor, so he asks actual questions about the editing process - how to break down dailies, thoughts on using temp score during an edit or editing without music entirely, intercutting, post production workflows - you know shit an actual editor deals.
the great thing about Art of the Cut's interviews is they're actually about editing as a craft, not hype pieces, not about dramaturgdy - they're actually about the technical aspects of editing feature films.
http://www.provideocoalition.com/art-of-the-cut-with-kirk-baxter-a-c-e-on-cutting-gone-girl-in-premiere/
the Gone Girl interview is particularly good because it gives a lot of insight into how Fincher runs post production and how the editor handles him.
>>68120058
OP here, this is something else I wanted to ask. I heard this complaint in the Half in the Bag review. Watched the movie a second time to take note, and there were plenty of establishing shots for big scenes. Any scenes that didn't have them didn't really need them. It was immediately apparent what was happening and where because it was a location we had either seen before, or had just been talked about.
Once again, I'm a fucking cinema pleb, so I don't know. Is there a rule that EVERY scene needs an establishing shot? I never found it confusing at all.
>>68120181
Anon that scene Lois' apartment with Clark was a fucking visual train wreck. Pretty much any scene that wasn't a massive action set piece Snyder had no idea what he was doing. He really has no clue how to stage a basic exchange of dialogue.
>>68120374
I guess this will forever be over my head, then. I didn't have an issue with it. I could tell what was happening, the motivation of the exchange was apparent, and I thought that Clark's glasses falling to the ground was a great way to end the scene. Made me smirk.
How did the scene start? I can't recall, though. It's been a couple of weeks. Was it jarring? Could you give me a run-down? I just want to understand because I feel like a fucking idiot when everyone seems to unilaterally agree that scenes were composed poorly, but I watched the movie twice, and while I admit things seemed to flow differently than your standard action/drama film, it didn't strike me as objectively terrible.
when a film has bad editing it has unnecessary beats (things that don't add to the plot at all, but are left in for whatever reason), poor pacing (sequences/scenes that drag on for more than necessary, or move too fast as to be abrupt), poor use of transitions and cuts (jarring and disorienting), and finally, a poorly edited movie will have usually have a bad takes in them, this doesn't really apply to big budget movies, but is true for independent and student films, though you do get the odd take that feels out of place in a major motion picture.
>>68119249
What was with the Bats flying bruce out of that hole? felt out of place
What was with the Parents death scene?
Felt Pushed.
What was with the weird bullet sideplot that led nowhere?
What was with the Supermans dad rode a tornado up a mountain sideplot that was never fully explored? is he the Red Tornado?
What was with the Forced WW cameo at the end it was not needed also the Scoring was out of place felt like a trailer for WW
Also the 3 other cameos felt so forced I was considering opening a tumblr account to complain about how the movie raped me and didn't have a trigger warning?
>>68120176
Thanks anon, this is great
>>68120632
>What was with the Bats flying bruce out of that hole? felt out of place
It was a dream. It seemed to symbolize him rising, finding a something to fight and live for after the death of his parents. He says it was a "beautiful lie", referencing the fact that after 20 years, he is weary and embittered with his position in Gotham. I thought this was obvious.
>What was with the Parents death scene?
What about it "felt pushed"? Just because we've seen it before? I dunno, I really liked it, (the score for that bit was excellent), and I think you need it because it shows what pushed Bruce over the edge, what inspired him, and it's what he ultimately forgets 20 years after being Batman, when he loses his direction and becomes fearful and disillusioned. The connection later is because Clark fearing for the well-being of his mother makes Bruce remember why he started being Batman. It raises him up again, like the vortex of bats.
>What was with the weird bullet sideplot that led nowhere?
It tied Lex to the massacres that Superman was being blamed for igniting. It proves that Lex is responsible, or at least collaborated with atrocities that only served to make Superman look bad. It reveals the kind of scheming person Lex is, and also probably helps him get put away at the end. It did also give Lois something to do to draw her into the final confrontation completely independently of being Superman's honey, which was nice.
>What was with the Supermans dad rode a tornado up a mountain sideplot that was never fully explored? is he the Red Tornado?
Oh... is this a troll post? I feel like such a tool...
>What was with the Forced WW cameo at the end it was not needed also the Scoring was out of place felt like a trailer for WW
I think her music was jarring, indeed. It clashed with the rest of the score. I will agree with the other three cameos as well. I wonder how much of their inclusion was executive meddling. I did like Wonder Woman's appearance at the end, though.
>>68120632
Bats flying bruce out of the hole is a metaphor. When his parents are killed he falls into darkness then he becomes batman to reach the light. These scenes were necessary for bruces whole arc in the movie.
Bullet story was to paint superman in a bad light to push the negativity in his public persona. The scene was absolutely stupid though because superman doesnt use guns. But I understand the purpose of its inclusion.
You've probably never lost a loved one before or you might be too stupid to understand. It's not uncommon to talk to lost loved ones to reflect on things. You're literally looking at it as if Clarks dad was really there. No one to blame but yourself for not understanding that
The whole WW inclusion was unnecessary but it wasn't game breaking, she was fine.
I agree, the Justice league cameos should have been done differently.
>>68119249
it was a meme for : I'm too retarded can't follow need quips to guide me all the time to understand the movie.
Shit man, I enjoyed this movie. It looked nice visually. My gf literally fell asleep though.
>>68120374
How was it a visual train wreck and how did the basic dialogue fall short? I feel like people are trying to say things about the composition of each scene but never actually explain it.
>>68119249
marvelcucks need linear, realistic scene changes that keep them in their safe space.
The only really jarring cut I can remember is the dream into > BANE? BANE? AM I TOO BIG4U? and Martha's kidnapping into the shot of batman.
>>68119462
>still spamming this shit
You and Snyder are both retards.
>>68120632
This is your average marvelsperg desu
>>68119398
You idiot the 3 hour uncut version will be released soon! Snyder was forced to cut this movie down hence why scenes feel rushed.
You fucking idiots are that dumb aren't you?
>>68121341
>release a long, dull, incoherent, loud, self-important nightmare into theaters
>obviously another hour of this shit will improve it
Literally retarded.
>>68120632
>bats carrying bruce who has fallen out of a hole to safety.
>rising off the ground with christ-like imagery
>finishes off the dream by saying they were carrying him to the light and that this was a beautiful lie.
This isn't rocket science anon, he's obviously talking about how he at one time thought that by becoming the batman he'd get some solace in the fact that his parents are dead. It's a lie and then he proceeds to talk about how everything is shit and how all the goodguys become badguys.
It's comments like these that make those people who say this movie is too smart for audiences seem right. Even though they're just shitposting.
>>68119462
The spear was obviously a reference to the spear that killed Christ, that is all and with the rest of the blatant religious symbolism it wasn't intended as anything but that.
>>68121365
>long, dull, incoherent, loud, self-important nightmare
Reminds me of Fellini's 8 1/2, but massive homo cunts like you will always find something to bitch about it.
Put simply this movie 3 movies in 1.
When you mix 3 different sodas, does it taste good? No.
Consider this: The entire doomsday plot didn't start until the last fifteen minutes.
In the comic: BvS is a pretty big story that needs a lot of setup. When superman fights doomsday and dies it was a huge event with a huge funeral, in the movie was a hobo funeral.
DC FANS U DESERVE BETTER THAN THIS
>>68121472
This is what i thought too but then I remember all the absolute retards who were unable to follow True Detective 2 every week.
>>68119249
Remember when the black woman was going on comparing Superman to God?
Remember how fucking quickly and unnervingly it cut to the next scene before she could even finish breathing out the last word?
That's bad editing. A split second could've given that scene alone some heft.
>>68120501
>How did the scene start?
Her taking a bath after she found the bullet that almost killed her.
>>68121495
>BvS
>Fellini
Get out of here faggot, I'm drunk enough that this shit is killing me. Why don't you just write an essay about how BvS is essentially a remake of Satyricon
Fellini fuck me that's hilarious
>>68121524
kek never saw this one
>>68121524
>Fighter jets, canon fire, marching band
>hobo funeral
>>68121635
That was Superman's funeral. Clark's funeral was a pine box in a field.
If the editing were worth a fuck, you'd have better noticed that two funerals were happening at the same time.
>>68121495
>Comparing BvS with Fellini's 8 1/2
You can't be that delusional, at least Marvelfags accept that their movies are kiddy shit.
It's literally just a meme spouted by marveldrone
>>68120181
Same, I love movies, but I don't much about the "rules" of film making and I didn't have a problem following the film.
>>68121635
I mean compared to the comics, yeah.
>>68121790
>Marvelfags accept that their movies are kiddy shit
As superhero movies should be. Anything too much more than that and you just start noticing how stupid they are.
Unless you're a fucking autist like Snyder's fanboys. I don't even oppose the idea of making superheros be more like they would actually be if they really existed, but Snyder completely fails at that.
>>68119462
/thread
no need to read any further
>>68121810
>even fucking Darkseid showed up
>even the goddamned Swamp "I could just head over to heaven and hang with him for awhile" Thing showed up
Yeah, jets are literally nothing compared to this.
>>68121782
If you weren't a fucking idiot you'd realize that from the start.
>>68121863
This.
These kids are gushing over babby's first themes in a capeshit movie like Snyder did something new and original. It's pathetic.
>>68119249
I can't for the life of me understand why is it that some people say this shit was hard to follow, or that it contained too much in such a short time.
Holy shit it's capeshit. There's more complex 9 min shorts out there.
>>68121871
I know you would like it that way, but I'm honestly not sure a lot of those posts aren't people fucking around. It's the sort of thing you would say when you were trying to pretend to be a 'highbrow critic'.
>>68121910
I did. Many didn't, and this had nothing to do with their intelligence.
A better director would've made a better establishment.
>>68120963
Batman vs Superman Movie we don't need an origin story, the bats felt gimmicky and out of place as do most of the "dream sequences" that give you no telling that they are dream sequences, maybe Clarks dad is the fucking red tornado maybe Batman was using bats to fly up a hole because Zack is a Hack, "It tied Lex to the massacres that Superman was being blamed for igniting." that sideplot had no weight to it because we are all focused on getting to the Batman vs Superman conflict, if Zack Snyder was a good director he would have dropped the project when they told him to add wonderwoman and have the 3 other cameos.
>>68121948
>maybe Clarks dad is the fucking red tornado
it makes perfect sense now
>>68121925
except that the truth plain and simple
the "pacing" problems are present only in the first half
as for the "editing" problems, that's just bollocks
the editing was fine
>>68119462
Does this nigger seriously think Lex Luthor is a reference to Oedipus because he talks about mothers
>>68121089
>The scene was absolutely stupid though because superman doesnt use guns
People complain but don't pay an ounce of attention to this shit. It's very clearly explained that the problem with Supes is that he provoked the African government into acting against the civilians.
>>68121975
>he made the tornado
>he was testing Superman the entire time
>>68122009
Entry level philosophers always go for muh oedipus.
>>68121998
>thinks that shit about the bath scene isn't someone fucking around
>>68121810
What is Darkseid doing there
>>68121089
Dude I paid to watch Batman and Superman, not metaphors that add nothing to the movie, add no character development and come off as Pretentious if I wanted that I would watch Arthouse or some shit, The bullet story was the most hamfisted way Louis could have been forced into the story exactly superman doesn't use bullets and that takes away all the stupid nigger speak that black magic lady was saying to the Grannys peach tea lady, "You've probably never lost a loved one before or you might be too stupid to understand. It's not uncommon to talk to lost loved ones to reflect on things. You're literally looking at it as if Clarks dad was really there. No one to blame but yourself for not understanding that" so do people go up to mountains to talk to their ghost dad alot? you could have had a flash back to when he was alive ffs, or even have him find recordings of his Krypton dad ...
>>68122140
Superman's dead. Of course Darkseid's gonna see this shit.
>>68122151
kill
i
l
l
yourself turbopleb
>>68121810
>Darkseid
Top fucking kek
"Guys let's bring out our entire dcu, fuck JL and every future plan we have"
>>68122140
Paying his respects. He may have hated the guy, but always expected his death/submission to be at his hands. When a dark god makes it his personal mission to kill you with his own hands, that's not something to be taken lightly.
>>68121920
It was exceptionally shitty is what people are saying.
It makes other capeshit actually look good.
>>68122197
Not before I kill you faggot.
>>68121863
I wouldn't mind a serious take on capeshit, but it just has to be done right... unlike Snyder..
>>68122302
You have to REALLY change it. Way more than Snyder did.
>>68122302
>a serious take on capeshit
I don't even know what that means.
>>68122416
Really try to do it realistically. It would be essentially unrecognizable if you did it right.
>>68121341
We can only go off the version that is available right now, can't we you fucking muppet.
For Snyder's sake the full cut better be fucking good.
>>68122477
You mean like super?
Or what about darkman, where the guys only super power is that he has fake skin that lets him make disguises, and that his burns were so bad that it burnt off all his nerve endings so he can't feel pain anymore.
Here's an example.
When Lex Luthor boards the Kryptonian ship at the end, he has taken Zod's body and found the command key that Zod had used in Man of Steel. He uses Zod's fingerprints to gain access to the ship and then uses the command key he found earlier to assume control of the ship. Then, because Lex is obsessed with being the smartest guy in the room, demands that the computer just start telling him information from the archives. He stumbles on something, some monster referenced in Kryptonian history, that is very capable of just killing Superman, so he asks the computer how such a monster could be made. The computer tells him how it was originally made and Lex asks the computer if something similar could be done using the genesis chamber on the ship. Then, according to the methods told to him by the computer, he takes Zod's body to the genesis chamber and does a bit of mad scientist-ing to make Doomsday against the computer's advice.
All of this is presumably what happens, but because the editing of the movie is shit, because the scenes are put together in a way that doesn't really allow that entire story to be easily visible and understandable, it feels like fucking shit. What you actually see is:
Lex Luthor takes Zod's body to the ship. He uses Zod's fingertips to gain access to the ship. Lex walks around a dark chamber on the ship and tentatively touches a control panel that has a raised button. The button clicks down at his touch, causing the computer to jump to life. The computer asks him if he'd like to assume control of the ship and Lex says yes. Then Lex is hip deep in water with Zod's body and nearly cries as he cuts himself and smears blood on Zod's corpse's face. The computer calls him by his name, Alexander Luthor, and says that this monster was a scourge and the Kryptonian high council forbid it.
You have to fill in all the stuff yourself for the movie. Not to mention those scenes are spread apart in weird spots between action beats.
>>68121948
>no telling they are dream sequences
Except that he says the bat swarm was a dream literally says it and then he wakes up after seeing a bunch of crazy shit leading you to believe that, I don't know, maybe he was dreaming?
I didn't like the movie either but you fucking idiots who cant look deeper into it really do my head in. You're probably the same moron who thought Inception was complicated.
>>68121948
>as do most of the "dream sequences" that give you no telling that they are dream sequences
Bruce literally says it's a dream. You are literally told it's a dream.
>>68122522
I enjoyed this movie, but I honestly dont see this fixing all of its problems. I saw a video where he talked about the scenes that were cut, i remember him saying there was alot of the Africa stuff that was cut, some of the doomsday and batman warehouse stuff was cut for rating sake. Most of the batman and superman story stuff are untouched. Atleast that what i recall from the video.
First movie I've ever seen where I honestly believe some autismo fat geek in his basement with a stolen copy of Adobe Premiere can cut together a better version than the theatrical release.
>>68122009
Batman, dude. Batman.
>>68122416
Read the short story "moisture man" by Charles yu, nothing about it is realistic, but it's a good little story, I'd go for a film that is in a similar vein
>>68122731
>africa stuff cut
Good. They should have cut the whole thing. The world didn't need more reasons to distrust Superman that whole bit was to shoehorn Lois. It really worries me then if that is the sort of thing thatis going to be extended and not the obviously far more important bits.
>>68122849
it was difficult to film around Afleck's 5 daily calls to prayer.
>>68121925
Yeah, nah, anon even said that he was working on the shitpost to end all shitposts a few days before that was seen first, he said it was a multi part epic, and that it would be good fun
>>68122868
this
>>68122849
>shoehorn lois
Right? They did that so badly in Man of Steel, and here they did it AGAIN, for fuck sakes man.
>>68120632
>is he the Red Tornado?
I lol'd
>>68122203
There's at least mutual respect between Darkseid and Superman.
>>68122607
>>68122681
What time at the start of the movie does he say it was a dream? I'm literally watching it right now
The biggest issue I have with BvS is that they had 3 fucking years to fix this shit but no we still get the same stupid problems MoS had.
Doomsday sucked too. He ruined the movie for me.
Why do we have to shoehorn in stupid comic book garbage like that? Doomsday is fucking stupid, I want anything other than a CGI abomination running around for 15 fucking minutes.
and to think I actually liked everything up until doomsday showed up.
>>68123115
In the opening bit. Listen to Affleck speak. I don't remember the exact wording because I saw it nearly two weeks ago but he does quite clearly describe it as a dream.
>>68123154
Yeah I guess he does... but I guess in the theatre I was to busy laughing with the rest of the crowd...
>>68123242
they're trying too hard to be different from Marvel.
there's nothing wrong with having a light hearted tone like they do.
copying Nolan isn't going to get them anywhere.
>>68119249
Remember when they (Bats and Supes) were going to fight? Why did it cut to WonderSkeleton viewing some files on a computer when the action wasn't even peaking?
>>68119462
pic related
>>68123526
yo you forgot a comma, you child.
>>68123526
>tfw you watched v for vendetta this morning
>>68123698
After reading a bit more about the whole deal, I can understand why Alan Moore disliked the movie, but I really did love it. The stellar acting of Hugo Weaving (and Stephen Fry too, I'd argue) really sold it. And despite the fact that Moore was correct in calling it 9/11 Bush-era paranoia, thematically it was very relevant to the times, the surveillance especially.
>>68121472
>Even though they're just shitposting.
At some point a film does become to complex for the average person.
The thing about BvS was it had a lot of plot lines going at the same time, and I don't think you need a high IQ to comprehend it but you do have to pay attention. The movie never lets up on important information and if you stop paying attention it's hard to figure out what you missed.
Like some else said the movie had plenty of establishing shots, but it didn't dumb anything down or have much exposition through speech which I personally like but if you are not used to that can be confusing.
>>68122220
The problem is you can't articulate your opinion at all. You just spout shit like "da editing" and when people point out how you are wrong, you resort to "it was just shit"
You sound like a fucking 5 year old, which is why you get ignored or laughed at.
>>68122577
>You have to fill in all the stuff yourself for the movie.
No you don't, it very clearly shown in all his scenes.
>>68121524
>diet coke with sprite and a splash of pepsi doesn't taste like canada dry ginger ale
go home pleb
>>68121810
>Atom standing on the coffin.
Get off there you little faggot.
>>68126359
>tfw Atom is a vastly superior character to Ant Man, but Ant Man already has his own film
why live?
>>68119462
I hope you donated something to wikipedia. Because that shit is wikipedia tier.
>>68119462
>The banepost was intentional
>>68124566
When and where does Lex find Zod's command key before he inserts it into the main console?
What and when does the computer say how to make Doomsday?
What and when does the computer even tell Lex about Doomsday? And in what context?
If you're going to say that the computer saying that there is information from like thousands of worlds and thousands of years in the archive, and Lex saying he wants to start learning is the answer, then you're objectively incorrect because that would be the definition of the movie implying a situation and the audience drawing in the blanks.
>>68128529
>that would be the definition of the movie implying a situation and the audience drawing in the blanks.
which is something all movies make use of, the relaying of information and audience connecting the information together
all movies work like this
>>68128529
>When and where does Lex find Zod's command key before he inserts it into the main console?
Compiled for another reason, but that should still answer your first question.
>>68119249
The best editing is when you arent even aware of it
>>68119462
Omg am I supposed to read that? Should just make a movie or something
OH WAIT
>>68119398
movies work as intensity also need a rhytm, so if you feel like you're watching a movie were just one scene ccomes after another because the director had to get through the script instead that it flows naturally (let characters, story developed) is shitty editing/directing
>>68119249
Buzzword thrown around when they can't find any bad to say about the movie.
>>68121341
We're talking about the theatrical cut, aspie. Calm down.
>>68128529
Wow. Do you really need to be spoonfed this much? That's... pretty stupid.
>>68123076
I'm pretty sure Superman never respected Darkseid
>>68119462
>Moby Dick
>"The Classic Hero"
Dropped barely 2/19ths in
>>68121810
Any /co/mrades know who the guy is bottom left with the katar and the spiked collar? How X-TREME is he?
