>normies angy at how Superman is presented in the film
>THIS ISN'T MUH SUPERMAN
>SUPERMAN WOULD OBVIOUSLY BE HOW I WANT HIM TO BE
>yfw you realize that these people are literally proving the point of the film
>yfw you realize that the real world is arguing over how Superman should act, much how Snyder's fictional world does
>yfw moronic Marveldrones and pleb critics are inadvertently proving the thesis of the film
>B-B-BUT MUH QUIPS
Fucking hilarious. The fact that it is lost on the masses is part of what makes it so great.
8/10 kino.
>>68111569
Looking forward to the ultimate edition so I can enjoy the movie as it was meant to be experience. Good movie.
>>68111569
If I was superman I would end up being Hancock
Think this could get a criterion release?
>>68111620
>movie is full of unnecessary filler scenes
>LETS ADD ANOTHER 35 MINUTES
DCucks are delusional
>>68111569
>it's actually good because nobody liked it
Cucks cucking.
>>68111569
People just want to see him save people. Not some super dramatic reflection on who he is and what he needs to do from people on a television.
That montage of him in the movie was kinda bad. All they did was show him looking epic rather than him being an actual hero. He saved one girl which was alright but there wasn't enough of that. And it was all fucking night time shots. What the fuck.
>>68111888
>yes, a studio should have final say over the cut! A producer's cut will definitely be better than the director's!!
Not half as delusional as Marvelfags.
>>68111942
>muh everyone liked it meme
Hey, pal... if a movie is universally praised... there's a good chance it might be boring and safe. Aka every Marvel movie.
>>68111569
The truth is "normies" don't give a fuck about superman whatsoever.
Supes hasn't had a hit film for 33 years.
Or just maybe nobody gives a shit about superman.
>>68111569
It was ok seeing Snyder rehash this theme from someone else's source in Watchmen.
When MoS did it, ok a bit dull.
Now it's at best old hat, at worse self parody.
>>68112071
lel Oh this is getting screencapped.
>>68112009
This. Superman is a superhero you DCshills.
>>68112071
>I'm a hipster contrarian: the post
>>68112041
Mcucks just salty because every Marvel movie is a Producer's cut.
>>68112113
>>68112096
The sad truth is in 2016 more people care about Groot & Ant Man than Superman.
You know what, I've got to applaud Snyder and Goyer for at least trying with the plot
Every Marvel film is just a copy-and-paste rehash of something else, if you asked me for differences between two Marvel movies I wouldn't be able to tell you besides the fact that there are different heroes and villains
>>68112168
>I'm a turbopleb: the reaction
For better or worse, in the end, this movie will be more memorable than Thor or Avengers 2 or Ant-Man so fuck off Marvelcucks
>>68112373
>implying BvS wasn't just ripping off 200 different comic books and trying to cut and paste a story together.
>>68112373
>>68112404
I'm screencapping these for sure.
I'm putting together a montage called /tv/ DCfags tears and excuses.
>>68112179
Like every DC film you fucking moron? Zack Snyder's been crying that a lot of crucial scenes were cut from his movie.
>>68112443
jenna malone
>>68111888
>not understanding how editing works
Holy shit adding this to my Marveldrone folder.
Fun fact: a movie isn't inherently better or worse because of length... wouldn't expect you to know that though.
Marvel has force-fed you their shitty formula so many times now that you've probably convinced yourself that you actually like it.
OP is so on the money
Man of Steel and BvS carries one of the greatest metanarratives in modern cinema. Literally every point Snyder has made has been backed up by people's reception to the films.
>>68112404
The Spanish Flu is more memorable than Kaiser Wilhelm's Favourite Sandwich. What's your point?
>>68112438
I'm not even a fan of DC though, I'm pretty neutral when it comes to capeshit but you know I'm right, you can't remember what happened in Thor or Avengers 2 but you will remember what happened in this movie
Do I think BvS is shitty? Yep.
Even if it's bad publicity, publicity is helping this movie more than shilled reviews can help marvel movies
Is Snyder the best director not to be recognised during his time?
>>68111569
Never mind this shit. The reviews for Civil War are AMAZING.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6uRwXyMNb0
>>68111569
The problem is that Superman's bit were pretty much all boring emo crap and it was half of the movie. It's not as bad as they say, but most of the bad stuff in it is Superman related. We already had a clueless Superman for 2 hours in Man of Steel, I was hoping to see him doing more heroic stuff other than save some girl from a fire and dying.
>>68112009
>Neil deGrasse Tyson's scene
I can't still believe this fucker is in the movie, FUCK!
The Boss? lel
>>68112438
well meme'd, but he's right
>>68111569
>It's the liberals!
>It's the paid shills!
>it's the normies ree!
>It's the...
Just stop. The movie is complete shit. Come to terms with it.
>>68111888
>yes all movies should be like muh Marvel movies. They are not too long and always end with our heroes fighting a CGI horde of enemies that never actually cause any damage! That is the formula!!!
>>68111569
Snyder wants the bleak world of the DCEU to mirror our own. He keeps character motivations vague and frustratingly flawed so that the audience can experience what it's like to be a bitter, cynical asshole living in the same universe. You're not supposed to identify with the characters, the same way you often don't identify with Godzilla monsters. When there's no one you can root for, then all you can do is sit back and watch in terror... or boredom.
Make every character unlikable so that the audience will hate themselves. Self-loathing gets Zach Snyder rock hard.
>>68112662
BvS?
>>68112009
>I just want to turn off my brain: the post
Can people criticize BvS without coming off as complete retards? I haven't seen anyone be able to yet.
>>68112673
>He keeps character motivations vague and frustratingly flawed
What movie were you watching? The term "character motivations" doesn't compute for Goyer and Snyder.
>>68112645
>0.01 Mickeybucks have been deposited into your account. Keep up the good work! :)
>>68111569
Hey there capefags
Please stop polluting the board with this garbage
Discuss capeshit in this general
>>68112169
>>68112169
>>68112169
>>68112725
So you're telling they aren't being bad writers on purpose?
>>68112676
Batman 5 Superman, the newest Zack Snyder embarrassment.
>>68112692
>>68112491
Basically this. The argument is part of what makes this movie so great. Marvelfags who critique it are literally proving its point. It's kind of awesome.
>>68112731
Do you think if you keep shitposting,History will change and people will actually start liking your piece of shit movie?
In my mind, this movie is a complete success. It was everything I wanted it to be.
I am treasurer to my own currency, no amount of paid shilling will change this.
>>68112791
Uhhh yeah exhibit A. Anyone with a legitimate critique is welcome to bring it forward.
Super hilarious image though, dude. Really funny.
>>68112792
I'm sure that will be a great comfort to the guys who sank 250 mill into making the film.
>>68112836
lel the movie was shit cuck
Marvelcucks are so so so mad that this movie is being talked about more than Civil War
>>68112856
Ok, lol when the delusions are this fucked, I have to call it a night.
>>68112853
>i'm an underage newfag: the post
>>68112480
A movie should justify it's length. BvS doesn't.
>>68112692
That comes entirely from your unwarranted sense of self worth and absurd delusions, not from all the people laughing at you.
>>68112882
But it is, have you looked at the boards? If you're calling it delusional then maybe you have DC filtered or something
>>68112792
>Anyone who says it's bad makes it better
A study in cognitive dissonance among autistic fanboys, Kekmann Et Al. 2016
>>68112895
Batman 5 Superman doesn't justify its existence. It's yet another brain fart from missionary director Bart Snyder and we're supposed to endure it.
Never again.
ITT: Fan retcon
>it was supposed to be like that!
>>68112934
>But it is, have you looked at the boards?
But you keep making threads clumsily fumbling to defend this tripe. You're an idiot.
This movie is all like, "Superman can only be all good or all powerful but not both." People who've read good Superman stories are all like, "Superman is the personification of all good and all powerful."
>>68112993
>It's just a prank, bro!
Showing a humanized Superman was the biggest mistake Warner Brothers did.
Hey there capefags
Please stop polluting the board with this garbage
Discuss capeshit in this general
>>68112169 →
>>68112169 →
>>68112169 →
>>68113024
>This movie is all like, "Superman can only be all good or all powerful but not both."
Is that why he scolds Batman like a complete hypocrite? It cannot even sustain its own logic, the whole movie reads like it was written by 10,000 chimps on 100 typewriters.
Seriously, it's like those "write a movie one sentence at a time" threads.
>>68112842
>Marveldrone: the post
Dude please stop it's kind of sad. Whenever you lot get creatively rekt you all crawl back to your monetary concerns. This board is for people who like to talk about movies.
>>68112636
Those are still estimates. They're so close BVS could actually come out on top again.
>>68113076
I think you mean "detached" snydercuck. He's so completely disconnected from humanity he doesn't even work as a relatable character, much less as a protagonist.
Superman embodies the ideals of mankind into one person, this superman embodies Snyder's objectivist bullshit into one man.
>>68112563
his head looks like a basketball
>>68112842
>Marvel: the post
Dude please stop it's kind of sad. Whenever you lot get creatively rekt you all crawl back to your monetary concerns. This board is for people who like to talk about movies.
>>68113126
>Whenever you lot get creatively rekt
Batman 5 Superman, just like every other Snyder movie is creatively handicapped. He needs to steal from comic books, visually from the wachowski sisters, and it always comes off as a cheap knockoff of the originals.
That's the badge of honor of a giant hack.
OP here. Thank you all for again proving my point.
>>68113189
He's not detached. He's emotional, he's lost, he's burdened, he's troubled. He's very human.
You hate him because he's not your perfect Superman who's always there in the nick of time and smiling not matter what.
>>68113215
>It's le marvel vs. us
Surely you can find a better role model than some brand of comic books, you neglected 12 year old.
>>68113273
this
>>68112009
The Dark Knight had more daylight scenes than Dawn of Justice.
>>68113238
Wew lad. On second thought maybe you should stick to financial talk... film critique is evidently not your wheelhouse.
>>68113272
That you're mildly retarded? Well, good job.
>>68113273
>He's not detached. He's emotional, he's lost, he's burdened
He's not, not in this movie. He's annoyed and violent and Cavill wasn't able to squeeze any emotion out of this role because he's not a very good actor and because of lack of direction.
Children like you want to win this argument so bad, they imbue the movie in question with attributes that were never there. It gets to the point of ridiculousness.
>>68113510
>He's not, not in this movie.
You didn't payed attention then.
>>68113360
You should stick to eating paint chips, interacting with humans is apparently not within your programming.
>>68113533
>You didn't payed attention
He didn't give any incentive to pay attention. If I wanted embarrassing lines delivered horribly, I'd watch the walking dead.
>>68112300
Watch MoS and BvS and you can see why.
>>68113673
Thanks for proving my point.
>>68113769
Thanks for being a paranoid schizo, the board would be much too boring without retards to make fun of.
>>68113673
>Admitting to not watching the movie you are discussing
Yikes
>>68114072
>i-it's not bad you didn't even watch it
Go take your ritalin.
>>68114145
>I understand this movie I didn't have the attention span to watch
Damn, son. Sounds like you need it more than me.
Just spread the Gospel, Snyder's disciples were destined to be persecuted.
It's a 6/10.
>>68111569
Superman's internal conflict was the best part of the film.
Stay mad, plebs.
>>68111569
>DC faggots will literally never stop making excuses for their two piece of shit films
lol you should honestly grow up
>>68116157
>lol you should honestly grow up
>lol now back to my quips! Can't wait for Disney's Marvel's the Avengers Infinity War part 1 and 2 coming soon to theaters near you!!
>>68115596
>>68114252
>This movie wasn't a stupid, disjointed and poorly put together mess of a film, you're just dumb.
But anon, this movie was disgusting. Seriously, judging from your posts it was even brain damaging.
>>68115596
lel
>>68115696
There was no internal conflict, it all happened in your headcanon. Enjoy your psychosis.
>>68118325
>better dismiss this film as stupid so I don't have to actually analyze it!
>>68117929
>lol batman is so epik when he murders ppl, time to cut myself while listening to tool
Literally teen angst: the post.
>>68118398
>Better dismiss criticisms as stupid so I don't have to actually analyze the movie!
That works both ways, you deranged fuckwad.
>>68112491
>>68111569
>>68111620
Thank you. I feel less alone now
>>68112373
>Snyder and Goyer for at least trying with the plot
They did?
>>68111696
Hancock would have been good if it didn't trip up half way through. It had such a great concept to work with.
>>68112692
People criticising it don't need compelling arguments all they need to say is "it sucked just accept it LOL" and they have a billion people to back them up with "TOP KEK DCuCKS on sUICIDE SQUAD".
I think that this movies criticisms are very situational, had the first reviewers (who were part of the same circles) given it positive reviews, even okay reviews, the publics perception would change. It's easier to join the witch hunt than admit that you liked something people are telling you not to like.
>>68112895
>>68112970
>>68119781
It escalated since the reviews came pouring in, then it became a meme to mock the film. And of course all the bandwagoners followed suit.
Its just a bad movie. Poorly directed and edited like the star wars prequels.
I lile marvel and dc, I like everything honestly. This movie plays almost exactly like transformers.
DC fans YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN THIS
>>68113189
he's not detached. he's extremely relatable, people have openly said they don't want that though, they want hero superman that is totally flawless in every way, the irony being no one likes that superman either
Can the new mods do something about these DC shill threads?
>>68112554
Thats like asking is adam sandler the best comedic actor of his time and that jack and jill is willfully misunderstood. The answer is clearly no.
>>68112554
yes
>>68111569
>trying to use "normies" as insult
>>68120266
FUCK YOU YOU DCuck I HOPE YOU ALL DIE YOU ARE WORSE THAN MARVEL AT LEAST MARVEL AND DISNEY MAKE GOOD MOVIES WB CANT MAKE ONE GOOD FILM AT ALL THEY ARE TOTAL SHIT STOP SHILLING YOUR SHITTY MOVIES HERE BECAUSE THEY WILL NEVER BE AS GOOD AS MARVEL OR DISNEY
>>68120272
No that's actually a really bad comparison. Does anyone come in to bat for Adam Sandler? Is anyone surprised when Adam Sandler's movies get panned? No. Whether you like it or not Zack Snyder makes divisive movies, not unanimously agreed upon bad movies.
>>68111569
Go spread this nonsense on reddit or something. Everyone here is too autistic to fall for it.
How mad are the DCfags going to be when Civil War comes in at 100% on RT and ends up above 95% after it's been out for a week or two?
>>68120727
they will do what they did when the BvS RT and other people that posted negative opinions...call them shills and bitch about marvel movies instead of accepting the negative things in the dc movies
>>68113238
>the wachowski sisters
Fucking hell sjw's need to fuck off this board
>>68111569
>normies angy
>angy
I'm angy you made this thread, you fucking faggot
>>68118325________________kek_____________________________
>>68112300
Good. Superman is somehow both pretentious and juvenile trash. At least the raccoon and tree are clear about being children's entertainment.
>>68120500
>Whether you like it or not Zack Snyder makes divisive movies, not unanimously agreed upon bad movies
Hi snyder, hows 4chan treating ya?
>>68111569
It's like the drooling DC fantards hyping the shit out of this flick are going through the 12 stages of grief, except the keep repeating denial over and over
>>68113183
It doesnt matter how close it is, BvS is supposed to have been one of the biggest movies of all time, Avengers big. This shit is supposed to kickstart an entire cinematic universe, and it's getting competition from some shit McCarthey movie nobody will remember in a year. That's fuckin pathetic.
shit film is shit. Get over it.
>>68113238
>Literally comic boom adaptation
>hurr he steal from comics
Also,even your favorite director probably "stole" ideas. See, that's how art works
>>68113510
Nice opinion lad
superman can barely make it in our world. what hope do we, as humans, have?
>>68116157
Better than the cookie cutter quipfests Disney churns out every month
>>68122072
You're objectively wrong and probably mentally challenged. Go to bed, Jimmy.
>>68113339
Cry some more.
>>68122213
>I fear opinions that are not my own, because I may or may not realize I'm a lamestream disneydrone
Fixed, no charge
superman-cucks are the worst
>stupid action blockbuster comes out
>it's generally well received by critics and the public
>/tv/ hates it
>stupid action blockbuster comes out
>it's generally badly received by critics and the public
>/tv/ loves it
I wonder what is happening here.
OP here, my wifes boyfriend made me make this thread because he likes making me look stupid, but he's black and I feel bad that I used to be racist so I obliged.
>>68111569
Now that we had Batman vs Superman, when will we get Boltman vs. Moonman?
>>68122971
Lol: superwoman having blue eyes an black hair there, she didnt in the movie.
>>68112563
What PS2 video game is that from?
>>68123003
Not unless it a movie about who murdered tupac and biggie smalls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=ETfiUYij5UE
>>68113273
>You hate him because he's not your perfect Superman who's always there in the nick of time and smiling not matter what
thats Superman you retard, he always comes throught, he always find a way cause he is Superman
My wive's son wanted to see the movie, so I went to see it for the second time and it made so much more sense.
Now that I understand it better, I gotta say it really is too smart for an average Marvel fan. I think it's might be the best movie Snyder could have made in that situation, he had to kickstart the Justice League with only one movie. WW and Lex sucked but I give it 8/10.
Tell me, why does it suck?
GODMODE: no buzzwords
Fight me faggots.
>>68111569
Why can't they make MoS and BvS the alternate timeline of Injustice? That would fix everything Zack did and fix both Bats and Supes into what we love and cherish.
>>68123431
Isnt that a pretty bad sign though if they have fucked the story so much its gotta be an alt timeline thing?
>>68111569
Keep crying m8 your movie is shit snd there's nothing you can do about it
>>68112071
Goddammit dude you really are an autistic fanboy. Keep it going, you're making people laugh with your stupidity.
Why are people fellating Zack Snyder for warping Superman into Dr. Manhattan with all the grace and understanding of a second grader.
He even lacks the self-awareness that he's doing a satire of superman
>>68123328
Why does it make sense to kickstart the Justice League with one movie? Either do the Justice League movie or introduce the characters and hype/build up to that point.
Other than that, what would you count as buzzwords? I want to get that out of the way before explaining my view on this movie.
>>68112373
Sure... Maybe you will be least mad in a year.
>>68112404
Oh boy you guys are truly patetic.
>>68112438
Will look foward to that.
>>68111620
I'm hype as fuck for the director's cut
>>68112491
You're pathetic even for /tv/ congratulations.
>>68115596
This reminds me of those paintings those hipster edgy artists make.
Like a white canvas then he puts paint in his cat , blind folds himself and uses the cat as a paint brush.
The painting looks like a random mess.
But faggot art enthusiasts will stare at it for a while and say it symbolizes inner struggle and the artists soul reaching a new horizon, shedding away his inner demons.
When in fact its just some stupid fucking brush strokes done with a cat while the faggot was on meth or some shit.
This is exactly what this pic of BvS damage control signifies. A shit movie that DC fags want to give faux meaning to.
>>68112811
Ok then go and be stupid somewere else.
>>68112426
>implying they weren't more faithful to their source material than pretty much any comic films outside of Sin City and Watchmen and managed to craft a unique story out of them
>>68112993
Pretty much.
>>68115596
Maximun autism.
>>68123581
I think it can tie together with the premonition dream and Flash's portal scene. At least they have a decent excuse to do it. :(
>>68112491
Thank you for this. You nailed it.
>>68120862
Probably
>>68123824
Beautiful
>>68122603
Your denial is humorous.
>>68123824
It's the exact same thing that happened when sucker punch released. Got shit on everywhere but the people who liked it shat out 2deep4u defense and the more the movie faded into obscurity the more insane the defense got to the point that they were posting multi post essays.
>>68111569
>>68112491
Do you anons realize you are doing what a critic does when he sees a pile of shit in a glass box exhibit in a museum? "The plebs and the masses don't get the vision of the person who took this turd had when he squatted down and shat this out. How ironic that plebs are?" Let me tell you, it is not that complicated, anons. Sometimes, turds are turds. You gotta point it out for other people not to step on it, and shame the people who took it and serve it for the public to see as if it was gold.
Batman v Superman died in the cutting room:
>BRENNER: In the script there were more story lines than you see in the movie today. That was probably our biggest editorial issue in trying to get the cut down to a reasonable length. For us, the trickiest section was the beginning of the film, until the point where Bruce Wayne tells Alfred the truth about what is on the “White Portugese” ship… the truth about his plan. This moment set into motion everything until the end of the film really. Until that point the movie was always tracking many solo paths, some intersecting, some not. Finally in this scene, the paths fork into one road. In the script there are more subplots than you see in the movie right now. Also in terms of building this beginning we had to move things around. In the script, Lex was introduced much later, but we found that in watching the movie – because he’s such an important player, it was best to set him up sooner.
>BRENNER: It was a lot to juggle. So the plot lines of a couple characters had to go. These people are currently in the movie but we don’t track them, and it’s okay. What’s kind of fun is that we went back and did an extended cut where we put a lot of this stuff back, and we refined it into the same rhythm as the theatrical release. So what was once a nearly four hour cut with absolutely everything was ridiculous – ended up being about a three hour cut, once all these added storylines were refined with the fat was cut out.
>BRENNER: I remember being a little worried. Three and a half hours, okay, that’s fine for a movie of this size, the way Zack likes to work. This was more daunting. But we cut down “Man of Steel” from about 3 and half hours, I knew we’d get this done.
>>68111888
>fucking dub trips
>nobody checked them
Sure is reddit in here.
WITNESSED
>>68123669
This is what i like to know
is it because hes a manlet and they wanna support their fellow manlet
is it because they resonate with him
is it because they really like watchmen
is it because they are worried uwe bol may make his grand comeback to DC if snyder gets BTFO
so many questions
>>68113024
Except good Superman stories aren't about a guy that's all good and all powerful. That's escapism at its very worst. Good Superman stories are about a guy who tries to do the best he can and is only too aware that he's not all powerful.
>>68113086
Haha faggot triggered by genres.
>>68120122
You still cant admit that its a poorly made movie because of your love for dc. The critics were right, not 30% right but north of 50% at best.
Seperate your love of DC and look at it as a person who has never seen batman or supes and youll see its a wreck.
>>68121130
It's funny you chose Syndrome for a pic, since Lex's plan is a lot like a smarter version of his.
>>68124088
Its all happening again , between tv and co its a handful of autists who are defending the film because they think if the film is bad then people will hate bats and supes and DC when in reality it is WB we hate.
Maybe the directors cut is better, snyders other movies were at least a C. I mean the Directors cut of blade runner ended up being the definitive version for moviefags and in general desu.
>>68124547
i thought it was at 29% like it deserved to be. Isn't 32% a little high? Paul Blart was a much better structured film.
>>68124376
Not >>68120122, but as a long-time fan of the comics(both sides of the company war), I can see how it might delve too deep into the lore for the average movie-goer; however, I don't necessarily see that so much as a bad thing. I think it's kind of bold.
The criticisms I've seen of this film that I think are valid all revolve around pacing and editing. The rest are people who seem to have entered into these two films expecting something formulaic and cliche and because of that they missed the point of what the films are really about - the evolution of the icon. Me personally, I find it kind of boring when we get the standard, pre-packaged, "oh, I have powers. I should do good with them" that never stops to contemplate when your powers are sufficient to, as the Senator in BvS says, make "state-level interventions,"
In Iron Man 2, Tony rather flippantlysays, "You're looking at the man who successfully privatized world peace." These movies are analyzing the actual ramifications of that, and how the public would perceive someone operating on that level of power.
>>68112491
uh, you do know we are not talking about an actual person right? We are talking about how they choose to portray a CHARACTER, not about how a living person failed to live up to a unattainable and unwanted image.
>>68111569
Agreed OP.
>>68113690
Returns basically ignored the last 30-40 years of Superman stories, on and off-screen, as well as the progression of cinema. It had been years since Superman was an "aw-shucks" boyscout, though that misunderstanding had continued in popular culture (just as my other favourite DC hero, Aquaman, has still to recover from the general, public perception that Superfriends gave him.) Clark Kent was no longer the affably asexual bumbler that Reeve gave us. In the time from the Reeve movies to the release of Returns, Superman had gone through a ton of development as a character, but the film just ignored that in order to stick to their old canon. The plot was incredibly basic, Spacey was inspiring but totally wasted. A giant Kryptonite continent sealed the deal, at that point, I wanted to walk out of the theater, and nearly did.
Man Of Steel, on the other hand, honours Superman for what he is and was, but without stagnation. Having him open on a fishing boat was great, and a good way to show Superman as the every-man he's always been, but gave us a Clark Kent that was more relatable; if you take the nostalgia-goggles off and watch Reeve, it's a little weird. No one talks or acts like that any more (if they ever even did - as someone who grew up rural, Reeve-Superman was less "salt of the earth" and more "what Hollywood writers think salt of the earth is." Reeve-Kent is more of a 'character' than any person who you might potentially believe could exist) and having Brandon Routh come back with that same sort of persona was a bad call - I don't fault either actor for it, it worked for the time with Reeve and they were trying it again with Routh. But it was a mistake, I think, it return to that aggressively-asexual, grinning aloofness.
>>68125383
MoS gave us a more realistic Clark, and also probably the best Lois we've ever gotten, at least in live action. Finally, Lois is no longer a victim, no longer just a love interest, no longer the plaything of an invulnerable alien (seriously! He gets her pregnant, wipes her mind, and leaves! How do people worship these movies?!) Amy Adams' Lois is smart, capable, and demonstrably a good reporter. I've seen a lot of people say they want to see a Batman movie really show Batman as a detective, and I agree. And seeing a Lois who figures out who Superman is instead of depending on his magnanimity to show himself when he feels like it was a small taste, I think, of what that would be like. I'm not one to normally care about "women's representation in the media," but I loved to finally see Lois as a character; still beautiful, still slightly googly-eyed by this chiseled god-man, but not totally vacant and devoid of a personality.
I will just say the common retort in favour of Returns and against MoS is "Superman is supposed to be a symbol." To that, I kind of disagree. If "being a symbol" means inspiring people (in-universe and in the real world) and so forth, than absolutely. But I don't think that was ever meant to come between him having a personality, being someone you can actually relate to.
Secondly, a symbol is only powerful if it works and resonates with people. MoS is a Superman for a post-9/11 America, for a world where there is less idealism and more cynicism, for a world that isn't coming out of WWII but rather now has experienced wars that span a decade or more, with vaguely defined victory conditions. Truth and Justice? Truth is relative nowadays, and justice seems arbitrary, at least to many. Now, I'm not saying what Superman represents needs to change (and I don't think it has), but how he represents it did, and MoS has started to do that. DoJ looks like it will take it further.
>>68125383
That's a good critique. I enjoyed Returns for what it was - a soft reboot of the Donner continuity that, wisely in my opinion, ignored the latter two films. You're spot-on, though. By doing so, they limited themselves to that incarnation of Supermanm effectively cutting themselves off from three decades of character development,
>>68125442
I'm liking the fact that he's having to reason his way to the right path for him to take in the world. It's so much more intriguing than just decanting full-blown, morally and ideologically infallible Superman onto the screen. At least to me. these two films are sort of anti-escapism insofar as the character hasn't really sidestepped any problems. In many ways, being "super" just makes things harder for him.
>>68125442
We live in a world where teens, 20-somethings, and 30-somethings are more likely to idolize Deadpool, the Joker, or Harley Quinn than Superman. If we keep showing the world a joke, then Superman has lost all efficacy as a symbol, and, indeed, undermines the very things he is supposed to be symbolizing.
In summary, Returns fails because it is desperately grasping at a cultural milieu that no longer exists, and tells a story that no one, save nostalgic fans, even wanted to hear. MoS may have had problems in execution (I totally disagree with that, but it's a popular notion), but at least it wasn't beating a dead horse.
>>68111569
It's not that Superman being a controversial figure is in itself a terrible idea, it was just executed horribly. He’s the most talked about character in the movie, the person Lex, Bruce, and Lois can’t stop fixating on. He’s seen as a hero by some and a menace by others, his true nature a mystery. And maybe it should have stayed ambigious. When the narrative deigns to give him actual focus, he’s depicted as little more than a sullen automaton who doesn’t seem to enjoy reporting, having a girlfriend, saving people, or existing in general. He’s a more morose and antisocial creature than the Dark Knight, who bears his baggage with a wry charisma that charms the viewer into forgetting that he’s plotting the murder of his opposite the entire time.
Snyder blitzes Clark and the audience with biblical imagery, cycles through various celebrities talking about the implications behind such a powerful figure in their midst, and is more concerned with what the idea of Superman represents than the man himself. As controversial as he is, Superman has very little actual presence in the movie and what few scenes he has do not endear him to the audience. You ultimately want Batman to triumph not because he is necessarily right to do so or that Superman might be a malevolent entity, but because the Man of Steel is just that boring and unlikable that you want to not miss him that much faster. Cavill, who has the looks and range to be the best movie version of Superman ever put on screen, fares far worse than Amy Adams' Lois Lane as the writers at least made some effort as far as her extraneous plotline was concerned.
>>68112071
This is bait, right? DCucks can't be in this much denial?
>>68112009
>Superman looks like it's a chore to save people
top kek snyder
G-guys it's actually kino! You just need to see it at least 8 times to understand! All the critics are wrong and I'm right!
>>68126769
You have done it, you have become a true /tv/ contrarian. We're all very proud, son.
>>68124214
>Three and a half hours of Snyder's clusterfuckery
Literally manchildren: the movie
This a prepubescent child's conception of what dark,gritty and realistic means
I rolled my eyed the entire time
>>68112438
>your a shill if you liked something i didnt
FUCK OFF REDDIT
>>68111569
>muh Marvel vs DC comic book wars
If you still see this through the lens of some epic battle between two huge corporations that couldn't give a shit if their 12 year old audiences, as opposed to evaluating each of these films on its own merits, then you're a huge baby who likes anything with the right brand label on it.
>>68124214
Jesus Christ! More subplots?
