So what was his deal? I get that we need to treat the planet better but why use Dr Manhattan for a patsy?
Also general watchmen thread discussion. I personally preferred the directors cut cause it had a few more scenes that helped fix the story
>>68097657
His deal was to "save this world" from nuclear war.
>>68097973
Yes, but it doesn't make much sense to try to frame Dr Manhattan. What reason does Soviet have for believing that Dr Manhattan had actually gone rogue and not just moved the American cities temporarily to the Moon or Mars?
The movie's ending quite simply didn't make much sense.
>>68098088
why would he move the cities and then nuke america? it is not like you can cover it for long.
>>68098155
Obviously they wouldn't believe that he actually had nuked America in that case, but rather that he teleported the cities somehwere else and made it look like they had been nuked on orders of the American government. They know Manhattan can do this, and Ozy knows that they know this, and yet he expects the Soviets to instantly believe that Manhattan has gone rogue and not actually kickstart the nuclear war.
>>68098088
>What reason does Soviet have for believing that Dr Manhattan had actually gone rogue
Thats the entire point of watchmen.
In this timeline Nixon got reelected ad infinitum, due to the commie's fear over manhattan. Especially since they won Vietnam.
Manhattan being a threat to both, total evens out the threat to a external factor. Meaning that when the earth is threatened, humans would unite.
In the comics its different. If I remember correctly. Ozy makes it look like aliens did it.But its been a while since I read them and Ive seen the capekino quite a few times.
>>68097657
The movie made much more sense and filled the plot hole with the vagina squid.
But it had some bad acting and cheesy scenes (Hallelujah). Overall I really like The Ultimate Cut.
>>68098343
The squid isn't a problem you fucking plebeain
waht can I expect froma fucking tripfaggot
>>68098271
uh, soviets would learn eventually it is a setup by america, then nuke it down.
and it is not just soviets and america, manhattan blew lots of cities around the world.
>>68098392
What the fuck are you talking about? Have you ever considered making sense?
>>68098392
there is no reason for america's enemies to believe america
>>68098425
they believe their spies in america though. it is not like they called obama and ask if their cities are bombed too
Let's be honest, this is the greatest superhero film ever made and one of the only three *actual* capekino films aroundthe others being Unbreakable (2000) and The Dark Knight (2008)
>>68097657
comic book
>metacommentary about comic books in general
movie
>DUDE GREY AND BLUE LMAO
>DUDE SLOWMO LMAO
>DUDE ACTION FLICK LMAO
throw it in le trash
>>68098643
Spiderman 2 nigga
>>68098690
downvoted
>>68098754
This desu
>>68098754
Spider-Man 2 is a good flick but it's not kino. It doesn't have any deep, hidden message. It's just good ol' "beat the baddie, believe in yourself and save the woman you wanna bang". That's it.
Watchmen is a commentary on superhero comics, a look back at the height of Cold War and the paranoia that existed around that period and the actual meaning of sacrifice: killing a few to save many. As well as the complexity of super-characters like Dr. Manhattan, whose immense godlike power drives him further and further away from mankind.
This is the basic difference between Watchmen and Spider-Man 2. You watch the latter the free your mind and entertain yourself, you watch the former to think and improve yourself intellectually.
>>68098974
SM2 is very deep
>>68098974
>kino
The Watchmen tried to protect us about this shit
>>6809897
>Watchmen is a commentary on superhero comics, a look back at the height of Cold War and the paranoia that existed around that period and the actual meaning of sacrifice: killing a few to save many. As well as the complexity of super-characters like Dr. Manhattan, whose immense godlike power drives him further and further away from mankind.
Yeah this is the comic book series...
The movie is a glossy action flick and a total misunderstanding of the source material
>kino
please tell me you used this word ironically
>>68098643
Your taste in superhero movies is depressing.
>>68098088
If America was going to make a power play with Dr. M they would just vaporize the whole USSR. No need to be deceptive.
>>68098974
I assure that any smart commentary that might still be in the movie version of Watchmen is there unintentionally.
>>68099428
You're assuming that a superpower that so far in the movie's timeline has acted very irrationally and escalated the political atmosphere towards nuclear war would suddenly act rational after having several major cities blown away by America's most feared superweapon.
The best comparison is the song "desolation row" by Bob Dylan, which would be the Watchmen comic. The Watchmen movie is the cover of the song by My Chemical Romance: loud, fast, "modernized", but cuts out a lot of the verses because Gerard Way literally said they weren't relevant to what he thought the song should be.
So it's easy to see why a lot of people would prefer to listen a 3 minute song they mistakenly believe "gets the point of the original across anyway".
>>68099715
What super important parts were cut from the comic exactly?
>>68099773
Well, the comic spends an hour (from the start to Rorschach's joke at the cemetery) with only the first two chapters of the comic. Then the next two hour plowing its way through the remaining 10 chapters. Pretty naive to think nothing essential was cut.
>>68099852
Ok. Name the essential things that were cut.
>>68099871
Define essential. If all you care about is the sequence of "main events", then you might as well not read the comic or even watch the movie, just read the synopsis on wikipedia and you all get the "essential" info that way.
Little things that got cut out: pretty much all of Rorschach arc. After the prison he starts dialing down his crazy persona and Walter Kovacs begins to emerge again. There's also no mention whatsoever of the fact that he strongly supported the hiroshima and nagasaki bombs because they saved a lot of lives. That hipocrisy (plus Kovacs coming back) is a huge part of his personality, and the answer as to why he asks Doctor Manhattan to kill him at the end. But I guess none of that was as important as a time consuming sex scene that happens off-panel in the comic anyway.
>>68098643
>not Hulk
p l e b
>>68100085
So a couple throw away lines about Rorschach's opinions, got it.
>>68099871
The Black Freighter, the loss of which was the major reason the ending had to be chaged and the lack of it also means that the movie loses the sense that Ozymandias actually regrets what he has done. Instead he comes across as a sociopath.
The characterizations over all are very off in the movie as well. Nite-Owl, for example, comes across as much more confident in the movie while in the comic he's scared of both Rorschach and Dr Manhattan.
A lot of backstory was cut. The comic spends much time going in depth on the first Silk Spectre's story and her relationship to the Comedian, for example, while the movie instead chooses to only give us a few highlights in the opening montage.
>>68100237
>while the movie instead chooses to only give us a few highlights in the opening montage.
Except all the other scenes they show in flashbacks.
>>68100427
Which still isn't even nearly close to the amount of backstory the comic had.
>>68100237
>Ozymandias actually regrets what he has done
Well, it's not stated clearly, for certain though his absolute confidence that he did what someone had to do and he is willling to live with the moral consequences, is shaken after the final conversation with Jon.
In general, even though I agree with most anons that it failed to capture the characters of some protagonists (mostly in the end for me) it still is one of the best comicbook movies out there.
>>68100459
Obviously time constraints are a thing.
>>68100640
There's a reason it was considered unfilmable. Gilliam turned away from the project and said that it would have to be a six hour long miniseries at the least for it to contain all the information it would have to.
>>68100704
And he was wrong. The movie we got covered all of the important scenes and material.
>>68100742
The movie is only faithful to the visuals. Everything else is shifted.
>>68098088
It's the weakest point of the film, in my opinion.
Dr. Manhattan isn't seen as some otherworldly, looming threat to everyone. He's seen as a weapon of mass destruction in the employ of the US government (and frequently used as such in the Vietnam War).
Therefore, it makes absolutely no sense that when Soviet gets attacked by Dr. Manhattan, they perceive it as a chance to unite instead of nuking USA to smithereens, regardless of losses on both sides.
This is where the comic's ending, albeit more "out there" than the film, is more believable in the world's reaction to Veidt's plan.
>>68100840
The visuals are arguably the least faithful part of it. Ozymandias and Night Owl are completely different looking.
>>68098088
If anything, it would trigger the war faster. Both US and Russia would think Manhattan supports the other side.
>>68100850
The weakest point of the film is clearly how Snyder completely avoided presenting the characters as actual human beings, which is a big deal in the comic. The only superpowered character in there is Dr Manhattan and a large part of the plot is how none of the other characters know how to deal with him. In the movie they're all just superheroes doing superhero stuff.
>>68100850
Except Manhattens' freak out on TV and leaving the planet clearly shows the whole world that he is unstable. Thus when he destroys both US and Russian cities they don't assume it's plot.
>>68100742
Here is the thing about watchman, and why it's such a memorable comic. It isn't about the series of events as they happen. The entire run of the comic is layer upon layer of seemingly unconnected events that all fit together to create this weird synchronistic series of events that inform the story as a whole.
Even little things like dropping the hints about the missing writers, artists, and scientist through the background, and end of chapter "excerpts" from inside of the universe then establishes the island that the comedian finds.
Its supposed to be complex, obscure, and meant to be re-read, and re-examined to find other little connections you might miss on the first read. The story is like Dr. Manhattan describing how he sees time, its multifaceted, and working across many different levels, all the while deconstructing the silver age and commenting on the 80's themselves.
The fact that the movie was set in "Modern times" is a big ball drop. The timeframe is essential to the story. Kids today have no idea what the doomsday clock is. Or that everyone uses electric cars because of inventions Dr. Manhattan made.
Shit just look at how they used the black freighter scenes to understand the fundemental misunderstanding of what is going on in the comic.
>>68100850
That was literally the entire point of making the giant squid alien, so that there would be no doubt whatsoever that the threat wasn't from earth.
>>68101124
While that may be the case, we're talking decades of propaganda hailing Manhattan as US' frontline soldier. In addition to that, his participation in the war (where he kills communists), should cement his place as a sworn enemy of the Soviet. All that fearmongering and tension shouldn't dissolve because of one hissy fit, at least not that quick.
>>68101206
That was literally what I literally said in my last literal paragraph
>>68101326
Perhaps not, I still think as a general idea shaping Manhattan as a patsy is a better story than LOL AYY LMAOs.
>>68101459
The squid wasn't random in the comic. It had been foreshadowed extensively.
>>68101502
And ultimately is still silly.
>>68101538
Almost as if it were a giant practical joke huh :)))))
>>68101459
>>68101538
I agree that it comes off as silly. Just remember, although Watchmen (the comic) is of very high quality, it's still a comic. It's allowed to break the rules of reality.
I really think the squid ending is quite good, since it's the only logical solution to the problem, even if it's stupid. The Manhattan ending might be more grounded in "reality" (at least, the reality of that universe), but it in turn is unrealistic in how the world responds.
>>68102025
>The Manhattan ending might be more grounded in "reality" (at least, the reality of that universe), but it in turn is unrealistic in how the world responds.
They just needed more time with it. The problem was they wanted to make that change but still wanted to keep the rest of the movie accurate to the comics.
>>68102025
Idiot, ozy pretty much states that his plan is a giant gag on mankind. It's slightly silly by design to those that know all the details that's the point. It also helps tie back to the comedians reaction at moloch's place.
>>68102088
>but still wanted to keep the rest of the movie accurate to the comics
But it isn't.
>>68099715
Please don't compare Snyderkino to some shitty emo pop band
>>68098285
yup in the comic ozy genetically engineers a huge squid monster and makes it look like the destroyed cities were interdimensional outsiders killing themselves as they entered our reality
Considering he had the brightest scientists on his payroll, innumerous psychois and a hyperdimensional being to work on and the best he could come up with was some lowly deadlock instead of uplifting all of humanity I guess nothing fucking matters because there is fuck all to this plain ( inuniverse) begging the question what he was really after with his nihilist truce.
>>68102129
Well, except it is.
>>68098343
Thank you for using a trip, please leave it on.
>>68102226
I read in some thread the ending had to be changed because of an outer limits episode, is there any truth to this?
"Wanna have sex?"
>>68102321
Architects of fear is the episode. It doesn't change the ending they just do a wink to it when Dan and Laurie visit Sally.
>>68102146
Snyder was the one who commissioned them to do the cover of Desolation Row.
>>68102680
[x] Told
[_] Not Told
Do you think, given the time, he could've found a way to kill Dr. Manhattan?
>>68102353
I wish the movie actually looked this good. Instead in the movie this shot is covered in dosens of color and contrast filters.
>>68102353
Why was Laurie such a whore? Why do her and Dan choose to go back to adventuring in the end? Veidt shows them how pointless it is in Karnak.
>>68101104
What? Did you even watch the movie?
>>68103147
No, Manhattan is omnipotent.
>>68103751
Yes, and I've also read the comic. If you honestly think that the characters in the movie then I suspect you either didn't do the latter or have incredibly low standards when it comes to story telling, or both.
>>68102289
I really don't know what to say to you if you honestly believe this.
>>68104001
It's a movie so only a few moments is needed to show their Human side. Kovacs with his up bringing, owl with his anxiety of the future, silk with her lack of a father figure, and on and on. If you needed more than that then stick to the comics, not a movie.
>>68104178
I know it gets in the way of more epic slow motion fight scenes and blue dong.
What is /tv/ opinion about the intro?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVUDdQS2UxA
Read the comic ages ago and loved it, but which version of the movie should I watch?
I know the extended version of a movie isn't always better, for example the extended editions of Aliens and Apocalypse Now are vastly inferior mostly due to their wonky pacing and such.
>>68104178
The characters in the comics also didn't kick each other through stone walls because they didn't have super strength.
>>68104785
I thought extended edition of aliens was better.
>>68103288
>Why do her and Dan choose to go back to adventuring in the end?
I never understood this either. Was it a sexual thing to them at that point or what?
>>68105016
Neither did the characters in the movie. Oyz was the only one who showed unhuman like strength and speed but he was probably on PEDs.
>>68105357
Are you high?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA0SarFs60w&nohtml5=False
>>68105825
Are you retarded? Nothing in there showed Superhero/knocking people through stone walls. I've this same scene in Batman movies.
>>68105825
I don't really see 'super strength', they're just really good fighters.
>>68105106
It might've been better if it wasn't for the scenes inside of the colony and Newt's dad getting facehugged near the beginning. The movie works much better if you have no idea what to expect before the marines land.
The scene with the turrets is great and should never have been cut though.
>>68104598
Love it.
>>68104598
Honestly, it's one of my favorite scenes of all time.
>>68098974
Being serious =/= being smart
>Im disappointed in you. Reforming my self was the first trick I learned.
Seriously, what the fuck was Ozy thinking? The same process that **should** have killed him, but instead gave him his powers, and you want to use it to kill him again? Dipshit.
>>68105937
>>68106156
It's obvious that you guys not only aren't paying attention to what's going on in that scene but that you also haven't seen the actual movie if you think Ozy is the only character that showcases superhuman strength.
The Opening Fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXLfTv42T8A&nohtml5=False
Notice how the Comedian punches straight through stone.
The End Fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbnGA8uu8T0&nohtml5=False
Notice how neither Nite Owl or Rorschach simply shrug off being slammed into stone structures.
The Alley Fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evrbXKspeAs&nohtml5=False
Notice everything.
>>68106375
he never planned on outright killing manhattan. the first time, this machine debilitated manhattan for months. that's enough time to get everything in order. he always knew manhattan would agree with the outcome, once it was all said and done
>>68106462
>Notice how the Comedian punches straight through stone
That's plaster, not stone
>Notice how neither Nite Owl or Rorschach simply shrug off being slammed into stone structures.
They weren't throw too hard
>Notice everything.
You everything you'd seen in any movie involving hand to hand combat, yeah.
>>68106462
>Notice how the Comedian punches straight through stone.
thats not stone
>Notice how neither Nite Owl or Rorschach simply shrug off being slammed into stone structures.
Keep in mind Rorschach and Nite Owl are tough guys, and they weren't slammed that hard.
>Notice everything.
I don't see how strength is involved into this, a good kick can be incredibly powerful and let you fly far away.
>>68106541
>They weren't throw too hard
2:32
>>68106722
so the fuck what? Have you ever been a fight? Played sports? Your body is already lumber, running on all cylinders with adrenaline pumping. Trust me, you wouldn't be too hard effected by that, especially if you've been through it before.
>>68106821
>Have you ever been a fight?
I can tell you haven't if you think these scenes look reasonable.
>>68106821
Nigger I played rugby for 5 years, 3 of them on a club team. You never don't feel getting thrown onto stone.
>>68107019
nigga please, you probably played on the women's team.
>>68107048
>not practicing touch rugby with the girls team
What an unbelievable faggot you must be.
>you will never have a cool nickname like The Comedian
My nickname is fucking Potato for christ sake
>>68107312
>potato
why?
>>68097657
WORST
CASTING CHOICE
EVER MADE
Honestly that movie was pretty good
>>68107790
what the fuck? the casting was mostly good, The Comedian was a god tier choice, Silk Spectre 1 and 2 too, Nite Owl and Rorscash
>>68098271
And the bodies?
All Khrushchev needs to do is fly over the US
>>68108274
I was refering to Ozymandias
>>68100840
Not even that I think.
There's a whole chapter in Watchmen which is symmetrical from start to finish.
The film has no such thing
>>68108663
I don't know how you would even attempt to do that in a movie.
>>68108695
That's why they called it unfilmable.
But I think as an episode it would work
>>68108793
It's a neat artistic trick I'll admit but it's hardly crucial.
>>68108826
I agree it's not crucial but by the time they made it (2009) the plot wasn't either because the silver age was long dead
There was really no need for a film adaption, nothing in the medium could add to the graphic novel
>>68108887
Nothing in life is needed.
>>68108926
OK Nietzche
>>68108926
Including your dumbass comment
>>68097657
Could Manhattan beat up Superman and every other superhero? I mean Dr. Manhattan could literally eat a planet
>>68108887
Because it was already like a film. Each panel was so deliberate and symbolic. You could only water it down from there
>>68108887
this
>>68102146
>MCR
>Emo
>>68097657
why is he wearing a retarded muscle suit?
>>68109286
It's a parody of the Schumaker Batman movies.
>>68108887
Go to bed, Alan Moore.
>>68109278
Kek MCR is a pile of shit, too
>>68109399
for you. your teen years must have been pretty lame.
>>68105178
It is. Dan was impotent before he put on the suit again.
>>68103147
No more than Manhattan could kill Alan Moore.
I get being content with adaptations of crap like John Green books since most of it is shallow description (writer can spend a whole paragraph talking about a character opening the fridge and picking something up while a movie does the same in two or three seconds). But Watchmen is like 400 pages long, it's dense as fuck, and the movie covers about two fifths of all it has to offer. The movie has its flaws in things it omitted or added, but it's a lot better than expected given the script they originally had to work it. Still, seeing people who genuinely believe it's better than the comic or that everything it left out was padding to the plot, well, that's just nonsense. It's like taking only the violin parts of a string quartet and say "yeah, this is pretty good, who needs to hear the cello and viola".
>>68100850
Ozzy makes it look like Manhattan attacked many people, including the USA, and not just the USSR. That's why everyone bands together.
>>68100168
well im not the other guy, but in the comic you see a lot of stories from side characters, for example the old man in the news stand, and the psychologist wich treated rorscharch.
the comic spends alot on those two characters (and some other i think), and their stories converge just at the time new yor city explodes, their deaths seem beatiful in some way, at least to me
>>68107312
I know a potato
Burgerstan? New England?
Also, fuck watchmen
>>68098271
>>68098088
It's mostly because of how he treated the media. He made the world believe that they hated Dr Manhattan and therefore he would have a hatred towards humanity, not just towards one group..
